[09:47] <pjotr> Hello, in my opinion the number of icons on the default Xubuntu desktop, is rather excessive. How about reducing that number a bit?
[09:47] <pjotr> Removing the "removable devices" icons has some technical disadvantages, so maybe they better stay. The trash can icon is also useful on the desktop, I think. But perhaps the shortcuts for "Home" and "File System" can be disabled in the default settings?
[09:47] <pjotr> shortcuts = icons
[09:51] <laite> heh, home & filesystem are the only ones I keep on my desktop =P
[09:55] <baizon> i got Home, file system, trash and 2 shortcut :)
[10:12] <ochosi> the number of items on the default desktop seems to be a really interesting issue to some...
[10:12] <ochosi> somehow it pops up every now and then
[10:12] <ochosi> maybe xubuntu is too good already, because people keep whining on such a high level :}
[10:28] <astraljava> Indeed. Let's break it horribly for quantal, so people will have some real topics to discuss. *smirk*
[10:31] <ochosi> :)
[12:53] <GridCube> knome, im lost, what else im supposed to do on the wiki comparizon?
[13:03] <ochosi> GridCube: what i'd expect from the comparison is something like this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Karmic/DefaultMusicPlayer
[13:03] <ochosi> or this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Karmic/DefaultMailClient
[13:13] <ochosi> GridCube: if you're thinking "yuck, this looks like a lot of work", then yes, i can confirm that :) (that's why there haven't been tons of real application comparisons)
[13:18] <GridCube> :)
[13:18] <GridCube> ok
[13:20] <GridCube> welp, most of that can be copypasted :D
[13:20] <knome> GridCube, don't
[13:20] <knome> GridCube, please, you need to go through it yourself to be able to actually give a objective proposal
[13:21] <knome> *an
[13:21] <knome> and things are probably also better
[13:21] <ochosi> also, if everything gets copypasted only, we'll end up with exaile again :)
[13:21] <knome> hehe
[13:22] <GridCube> well no i meant the part about use cases, thats pretty much the same
[13:22] <knome> GridCube, i'd still say; please go through it yourself
[13:22] <GridCube> knome, i am
[13:22] <knome> GridCube, by all means use the old spec as a reference
[13:23] <knome> GridCube, but don't copy-paste
[13:23] <knome> it *is* hard work, especially if you want to stay objectibe
[13:23] <knome> s/b/v/
[13:23] <GridCube> it just i dont feel like any of the work will actually matter because it feels like it has been decided that "i just dont like it"
[13:23] <ochosi> in fact there are a few things i prefer structurally in the mailclient comparison, that's why i linked it as well
[13:24] <knome> GridCube, to me, it looks like you have decided that you don't like gmb, and that's why you don't want to propose that as default
[13:24] <ochosi> GridCube: that is fine as well, then we'll most likely stick to gmusicbrowser (there haven't really been many public complaints)
[13:24] <knome> GridCube, don't let prejudice get you :)
[13:25] <knome> GridCube, that's too easy - anbody can do that with *no* work
[13:25] <ochosi> well in fact there's also the option to compile a list of proposed changes to gmusicbrowser. much can be dealt with at the layout-level
[13:25] <ochosi> knome: which reminds me: click the search-icon > advanced search (that is in fact "create filter from search")
[13:26] <knome> GridCube, ^ and we're actually working on making our layout more intuitive (there's even a blueprint for that)
[13:26] <knome> (a shimmer project blueprint)
[13:26] <knome> anyway, i got to go
[13:26] <knome> i'll be back later today
[13:26] <knome> see you!
[13:26] <ochosi> seeya
[13:27] <GridCube> ochosi, in order to do a comparison like the one in the mail client i would need to reduce the amount of option to 2 or 3
[13:27] <ochosi> GridCube: yes, i think you can try to rule out a few anyway
[13:28] <GridCube> mmhm yes
[13:28] <ochosi> no need to compare _all_ of them :)
[13:28] <GridCube> but the thing is, there are music players, like audacious or like decibel, that "just play music", no default media library or anything, so what should i do then?
[13:29] <ochosi> well i guess that's a big decision, should it be library-capable or not
[13:29] <GridCube> rule them out? compare only media players that have music libraries?
[13:29] <GridCube> because if we do that then we can simply tell people to use parole to play music
[13:29] <ochosi> well ideally the music player would have both
[13:30] <ochosi> yeah
[13:30] <ochosi> parole is actually ok on the simple-playlist level
[13:30] <ochosi> it's far from perfect
[13:30] <GridCube> and have only one media player
[13:30] <GridCube> yes
[13:30] <ochosi> but maybe astraljava can help improve it a bit
[13:30] <ochosi> personally i think it's good to have a separate music player
[13:31] <ochosi> simply it's a very common usecase
[13:31] <ochosi> *because
[13:43] <GridCube> :/ well
[13:47] <bluesabre> I feel like a lot of the lightweight, Xfce-recommended players suffer from being ugly.  http://wiki.xfce.org/recommendedapps#multimediaplayback
[13:47] <bluesabre> Can we not have pretty and resource-friendly?  :)
[13:48] <ochosi> i think in this case something like beatbox would be an option
[13:48] <ochosi> but i have no clue how stable it is atm
[13:49] <bluesabre> Haven't used it in a while.
[13:49] <ochosi> me neither
[13:55] <bluesabre> Don't really have any music on this computer, but it handles podcasts well so far =)
[18:04] <astraljava> ochosi: Talking about parole?
[18:05] <ochosi> astraljava: yeah. GridCube and me were talking about what the default music player should be able to do in xubuntu
[18:05] <ochosi> and the basic playback/list thing is already covered by parole
[18:05] <ochosi> so i argued that library-management wouldn't a bad basic feature
[18:05] <astraljava> ochosi: Right on. I'm still at my bro's, I thought I'd end up at home earlier than yesterday... but he had beer. *smirk*
[18:05] <ochosi> hehe
[18:06] <ochosi> lucky you
[18:06] <astraljava> So can't start working on it tonight either. :D
[18:06] <ochosi> neither do i have a bro, nor do i have beer at home :'(
[18:06] <astraljava> Tomorrow I'm talking rubbi^WQA stuff with gnome.
[18:06] <ochosi> ah right
[18:06] <ochosi> you mean in person?
[18:11] <astraljava> Yep. They're cooking indian-style tortillas. :)
[18:12] <ochosi> gah, you lucky bastard!
[18:12] <astraljava> *smirk*
[18:14] <ochosi> i can't help myself, this looks pretty fantastic imo: http://0rax0.deviantart.com/art/GNOME-Shell-eOS-262479724
[18:14] <ochosi> i mean the whole color-scheme seems pretty balanced
[18:14] <ochosi> very bright though, no sure how it would be in everyday use
[18:14] <bluesabre> too much white
[18:15] <ochosi> probably
[18:15] <ochosi> thing is: this is just a shell-theme
[18:15] <bluesabre> true
[18:15] <ochosi> so no idea what the gtk theme should look like
[18:15] <bluesabre> Not going to see that white very often
[18:15] <ochosi> probably greybird would work well with it
[18:16] <ochosi> i'm sometimes thinking about making greybird's menus white
[18:16] <ochosi> mainly because it's easier to read
[18:24] <astraljava> Well it looks really cool to me as well.
[18:29] <ochosi> I'd love to make the xfce headers look like the "Home Applications System" towards the lower end of the screenshot-composition
[20:57] <ochosi> astraljava: just pushed a new branch to greybird with bright menus, happy testing!
[21:08] <astraljava> ochosi: Don't know when I get my xubuntu machine up and running, but thanks! :)
[21:08] <ochosi> astraljava: test it tomorrow @knome ;)
[21:08] <knome> astraljava, tomorrow at ours maybe. :)
[21:09] <astraljava> Sure.
[21:28] <knome> astraljava, http://typewith.me/p/xubuntu-qa-20120601
[22:08] <ochosi> knome, astraljava: selected-panel-item with bright menu: http://imagebin.org/214665
[22:09] <ochosi> the hover-effect on indicators and window-buttons is the same blue color btw
[22:44] <knome> ochosi, we need to add software-properties-gtk to settings manager
[22:44] <ochosi> knome: well, feel free to start a blueprint or bugreport so we can add items to that list
[22:44] <ochosi> there are so many more...
[22:44] <knome> Unit193, ^
[22:44] <ochosi> (jockey, ...)
[22:45] <knome> Unit193, want to help? :)
 that's something to add to the settings manager btw   <--- I thought, alright, I've done it a few times, I know how to now. :D
[22:45] <Unit193> knome: Yes I do.
[22:45] <knome> Unit193, would you like to gather a list of things we want to add to settings manager?
[22:46] <knome> Unit193, or even, list of things we *could* add to the settings manager
[22:46] <knome> Unit193, because yeah, it's rather easy to cherry-pick from those then :)
[22:49] <knome> it's really useful to have all the xubuntu wiki pages in history ;)
[22:49] <knome> Unit193, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/SettingsManagerApps
[22:52] <knome> since our *current* strategy document doesn't talk about blueprints...
[22:52] <knome> i'm going to just escalate this to "approved" and create a blueprint for it.
[22:52] <ochosi> good
[22:52] <Unit193> Running debsums now to figure out what I already edited. :P
[22:52] <knome> ;)
[22:53] <knome> i mean, even with the new proposed SD, it would only mean i'd need to ask lionel first.. :P
[22:57] <Unit193> language-selector.desktop, jockey-gtk.desktop, time.desktop, users.desktop, alacarte.desktop, ubuntuone-installer.desktop(?)
[22:57] <Unit193> zenmap, but that's unrelated. :P
[22:58] <ochosi> Unit193: configure wine?
[22:58] <knome> Unit193, feel free to add any - i think "installers" don't really belong in settings manager, but at this point every idea is welcome
[22:58] <Unit193> ochosi: This is a list of things I've *already* changed.
[22:58] <ochosi> ah
[22:58] <ochosi> ok
[22:59] <ochosi> (and there's the pulseaudio-stuff, pavucontrol and the equalizer)
[22:59] <Unit193> knome: Run  ubuntuone-installer
[22:59] <knome> Unit193, NOOOOOO
[22:59] <knome> ;)
[22:59] <Unit193> Poorly named.
[22:59] <Unit193> It's installed, that's the config.
[23:01] <knome> mm-hhm
[23:05] <ochosi> afaik the config will be qt-only in 12.10 :(
[23:05] <ochosi> or wait, is it already in 12.04?
[23:07] <Unit193> Well that's annoying for anything other than KDE, but as I require VLC, no problem.
[23:09] <knome> Unit193, there's now some stuff you should be aware of:
[23:09] <Unit193> !info ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk quantal
[23:10] <knome> Unit193, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Goals/Quantal  lists you as the assignee (along with 'community') for this blueprint
[23:10] <knome> Unit193, it also has a link to the spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/SettingsManagerApps (add any apps you think are worth adding here)
[23:10] <ochosi> !info ubuntu-one-control-panel-gtk precise
[23:10] <knome> Unit193, and the blueprint itself is at: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-settings-manager-launchers
[23:10] <ochosi> !info ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk precise
[23:11] <Unit193> Depends: ubuntuone-control-panel-qt
[23:11] <knome> Unit193, there shouldn't be much more work items for the blueprint, but if there is, you can add them like the following example:
[23:11] <knome> Unit193, [launchpad-nick] What to do: STATUS
[23:11] <Unit193> Yep, seen the style, thanks.
[23:11] <knome> Unit193, ok, good
[23:11] <knome> Unit193, but as i said, there shouldn't be many surprises. :)
[23:12] <Unit193> (I read all the -team mail that comes in)
[23:12] <knome> Unit193, i'll try to get that blueprint approved for Q as soon as possible, so it shows up on status.ubuntu.com too