[15:00]  * stgraber waves
[15:00]  * ogra_ shores
[15:00] <mdeslaur> \o
[15:00] <Daviey> o/
[15:00] <brendand> o/
[15:00] <arosales> hello
[15:01] <seb128> hey
[15:01] <skaet> hiya
[15:01] <skaet> #startmeeting
[15:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jun  1 15:01:55 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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[15:02] <Riddell> hi
[15:02] <skaet> We're now in FeatureDefinitionFreeze,  all blueprints should be up to date and reflect your team's plans for this cycle.  As of this morning there are 2282 work items in the tracker.   The trend line will now
[15:02] <skaet> be reset for the burndowns.
[15:02] <skaet> .
[15:02] <skaet> Based on the follow up from last week,  A3 has moved to July 26.    Also changed since the last meeting is DebianImportFreeze is July 5,  per UDS discussions.   Schedules have now had the DRAFT indicator removed.
[15:02] <skaet> .
[15:02] <balloons> o/
[15:02] <skaet> Before we go into the open Q&A session,  just want to give a reminder of some other key links.
[15:02] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/Agenda  (this meeting's conventions and format are documented there).
[15:02] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule (12.10 Schedule)
[15:02] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock  (12.10 and 12.04.1 interaction with other teams)
[15:02] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule (12.04.1 Schedule)
[15:02] <skaet> .
[15:02] <skaet> Key events:
[15:02] <skaet> 2012/06/07 - Alpha 1 Milestone Release  (soft freeze and images available on 06/04)
[15:02] <skaet> 2012/07/05 - DebianImportFreeze
[15:02] <skaet> .
[15:03] <stgraber> I also created a wiki page for the 12.04.1 team with links to relevant resources: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/12.04.1
[15:03] <stgraber> ..
[15:03] <skaet> Here are the status's received on the mail list:
[15:03] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001277.html - hardware cert (brendand)
[15:03] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001278.html - ubuntu studio (scott-work)
[15:03] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001279.html - security (mdeslaurs)
[15:03] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001280.html - Kubuntu (ScottK)
[15:03] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001282.html - Edubuntu (stgraber)
[15:03] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001284.html - Kernel (ogasawara)
[15:03] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001285.html - Lubuntu (gilir)
[15:03] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001287.html - Server (arosales)
[15:04] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001288.html - Xubuntu (astraljava)
[15:04] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001289.html - Desktop (seb128)
[15:04] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001290.html - QA (jibel)
[15:04] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001291.html - Foundations (ogra_)
[15:04] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001296.html - QA community (balloons)
[15:04] <skaet> [TOPIC] Comments and Questions
[15:04] <skaet> thanks stgraber.  :)
[15:04] <skaet> Comment:  NCommander, stgraber and skaet will be contact points for the A1 release next week.   Please ask questions in #ubuntu-release if there are concerns/issues as we work on the images next week.
[15:04] <skaet> ..
[15:04] <skaet> any one have questions from reading the mail list, or others, before I start in?
[15:05] <ogra_> the linux-base MIR mentioned in the foundations report blocks A1 for armhf, would be nice to have that proceeded with high prio
[15:05] <ogra_> ..
[15:05] <skaet> heh,  thanks ogra_ that pre-empts one of mine quite nicely ;)
[15:05] <ogra_> :)
[15:05] <cjwatson> o/
[15:05] <skaet> go cjwatson
[15:06] <cjwatson> Not a response to status mails as such, but I'd like a volunteer (from the intersection of ubuntu-core-dev and ubuntu-archive) to run auto-syncs at least on Monday and Tuesday, and if possible occasionally over the weekend, since I'll be away
[15:06] <cjwatson> ..
[15:06] <Riddell> can that be done without command line access?
[15:06] <cjwatson> Yes
[15:07] <Riddell> show me how and I'll give it a go
[15:07] <cjwatson> Great, thanks, will follow up with you out of band
[15:07] <cjwatson> (done)
[15:07] <Daviey> cjwatson / Riddell: Do you want to wiki-tize it, making it easier for volunteers in the future?
[15:07] <skaet> +1
[15:08] <cjwatson> Gosh, might almost think it was already
[15:08] <Daviey> (The irony of auto-sync's needing a human isn't lost :)
[15:08] <Riddell> should be on ArchiveAdmin if the world worked perfectly I think
[15:08] <cjwatson> It *is* on ArchiveAdministration
[15:08] <cjwatson> The world works perfectly.  QED
[15:08] <skaet> lol
[15:08] <Daviey> wow, i suck.
[15:08] <cjwatson> Daviey: automation is blocked on two LP bugs, referenced from the foundations archive-admin spec for the cycle
[15:08] <Riddell> nice
[15:09] <cjwatson> (full automation, that is)
[15:09] <Daviey> cjwatson: Sorry, i thought that the Sync section was referencing shell based syncs.. not api based ones.
[15:10] <cjwatson> Daviey: I believe I nuked all of that since the old code is no longer available
[15:10] <Daviey> rocking
[15:10] <skaet> .. (feels like it,  on to next question)
[15:10] <skaet> ogra_,  any updates on when we'll be dropping the alt installer images?  (Nick's question from the mail list).
[15:11] <ogra_> ??
[15:11] <ogra_> why do you ask me ?
[15:11] <skaet> cjwatson then.
[15:11] <ogra_> :)
[15:11] <skaet> (foundations rep ;) )
[15:11]  * ogra_ wont drop any alternate images for x86 :)
[15:11] <Daviey> RE: Nick's question.. if they can't use the desktop installer.. the mini.iso is still being shipped.. So they can get Ubuntu on there.
[15:11] <ogra_> i thought the plan was to do it asap
[15:12] <ogra_> but i have no idea if that also means A1
[15:12] <ogra_> surely depends on raid and lvm in ubiquity
[15:12] <balloons> Well, alpha 1 is next week, I assumed the question was more for cjwatson and team.. we can drop once the installer supports everything
[15:13] <ogra_> which rogresses well but i dont think is finished yet
[15:13] <brendand> skaet, cjwatson - before that happens would you mind hearing a few concerns from the cert team?
[15:13] <ogra_> *progresses
[15:13] <gilir> o/
[15:13] <ogra_> brendand, you have netboot and mini iso
[15:13] <cjwatson> skaet: Not until beta
[15:13] <ogra_> both will go on using alternate
[15:13] <cjwatson> The desktop image won't be a complete replacement until then
[15:13]  * ogra_ notes that down for the next time this question comes up 
[15:13] <skaet> cjwatson,  ok.    thanks.  :)
[15:13] <ogra_> ..
[15:14] <cjwatson> brendand: ?
[15:14] <balloons> ok, does it make sense to test images we'll be replacing?
[15:14] <cjwatson> balloons: low priority
[15:14] <Daviey> brendand: Can you comment on why mini.iso wouldn't cover any gaps lost with alternate?
[15:14] <Daviey> seems disingenuous to ship an image for Alpha, we have no intention of being in final.
[15:14] <brendand> Daviey, ogra_ - i'm not au fait with the mini.iso
[15:14] <balloons> I mean, I wouldn't want to publish alt images for alpha1, if we're dropping
[15:15] <Daviey> super.
[15:15] <stgraber> balloons: a good part of the installer code path (partman) and the post-boot experience will still essentially be identical whether you install from alternate or from desktop, so I think there's still value in testing lvm/crypto on the alternates until desktop supports it
[15:15] <ogra_> balloons, there are install methods missing in live the alternate offers
[15:15] <xnox> Daviey: we have a contingency plan. until we know that ubiquity has luks/lvm and it works well we will not be dropping alternative cd.
[15:15] <brendand> ogra_, i'm not entirely sure netboot is an adequate substitute
[15:16] <xnox> and that piece of work was long time in the cooking and still a highly desirable wishlist item, becuase it's not easy to implement.
[15:16] <ogra_> brendand, well, it uses the same installer as alternate, it just doesnt have packages in a local pool
[15:16] <xnox> at any case we do not want to loose offline encrypted installation option.
[15:16] <cjwatson> balloons: as xnox says - if we turn out not to be able to finish the luks/lvm work (although it is extremely high priority and we'll do our best), it would be bad to ship 12.10 with very significantly reduced partitioning capabilities
[15:16] <xnox> for the desktop that is currently the alternative image
[15:17] <cjwatson> we don't *want* the alternates to be in final, but they're a fallback
[15:17] <cjwatson> it would be worse to have to resurrect them in a panic
[15:17] <Daviey> So it should be captured that it's not definite that alternate is going away.
[15:17] <xnox> alternative cd until last minute is our contingency plan.
[15:17] <balloons> that makes sense, but I'm divided about it...
[15:17] <cjwatson> it is the plan of record
[15:17] <brendand> ogra_, so the reason we fell back to alternate sometimes was because desktop didn't work on a particular system. it would be reasonable, but not ideal to ask an end user to use alternate to install
[15:17] <cjwatson> like most things, plans of record may occasionally be subject to contingencies
[15:17] <brendand> ogra_, i don't think so the same can be said for netboot
[15:18] <ogra_> brendand, not easily, but surely for mini.iso
[15:18] <Daviey> brendand: burn mini.iso to disk, select ubuntu desktop. go home. :)
[15:18] <cjwatson> It is reasonable, but not ideal, to ask users to use mini.iso
[15:18] <xnox> Daviey: doesn't mini.iso require network access?
[15:18] <Daviey> yah
[15:18] <ogra_> yes
[15:18] <cjwatson> If they were having to download the alternate ISO anyway, it's not much worse
[15:18] <cjwatson> And it's the same interface
[15:18] <ogra_> or a local mirror
[15:18] <brendand> Daviey, we'll have a look at mini.iso
[15:19] <ogra_> or a cd with a locla mirror (which makes it nearly an alternate install ;) )
[15:19] <xnox> there is a usecase for isolated, non-network accesible machines.
[15:19] <cjwatson> Yeah, but they tend to have stronger local admin capabilities
[15:19] <cjwatson> I'm not worried about those at the moment
[15:19] <xnox> mini.iso + desktop.iso for the upgrade pool = ugly
[15:19] <xnox> ok.
[15:19] <xnox> ..
[15:19] <brendand> cjwatson, one technical thing was a recent discovery we made about interaction between ubiquity and usb sticks inserted on install
[15:19] <cjwatson> Anyway, I don't think we need to get all the way into this in the meeting ...
[15:20] <balloons> sounds like we could use a usecase -> iso enablement mapping
[15:20] <cjwatson> brendand: That sounds like a bug we should fix!
[15:20] <ogra_> ++
[15:20] <brendand> cjwatson, indeed!
[15:20] <skaet> .. I think.
[15:20] <skaet> gilir,  go
[15:20] <ogra_> balloons, that scalled manifest and is on the wiki :)
[15:20] <cjwatson> Yes, we should take further stuff out of band; say -devel or -installer
[15:20] <ogra_> ..
[15:21] <gilir> the plan is to drop alternate for Ubuntu and all the flavors ?
[15:21] <cjwatson> gilir: IMO it's up to flavours
[15:21] <gilir> or are flavors free to produce 1 or more alternate images ?
[15:21] <xnox> less images the better.
[15:21] <ogra_> why "more" ?
[15:21] <ogra_> ..
[15:21] <cjwatson> ogra_: architectures
[15:21] <ogra_> ah
[15:22] <cjwatson> The alternate image is inherently more flexible and it's a perfectly legitimate per-flavour decision to produce them
[15:22] <ogra_> yeah
[15:22] <cjwatson> The "no alternate image for 12.10" is primarily a matter of Canonical paring down the set of images it has to care about
[15:22] <cjwatson> i.e. Ubuntu desktop
[15:22] <cjwatson> It is not an edict that applies non-negotiably to all flavours
[15:22] <gilir> alternate is still usefull for us, but I didn't check is mini.iso can replace it
[15:23] <Daviey> Well, it's also.. as a project.. too many flavours IS confusing.
[15:23] <Daviey> err, options
[15:23] <cjwatson> We have to support the underlying software for automated deployments, netboot etc. anyway
[15:23] <cjwatson> Daviey: that's negotiable though
[15:23] <gilir> I just want to be sure the installer for alternate will be updated and maintained :)
[15:23] <skaet> gilir, I'll do a survey before B1 so we can finalize the manifest on this subject.   It will be a per flavor decision.
[15:23] <cjwatson> You could make the same argument that too many flavours is confusing, but I'm pretty sure that's not something you want to say to flavours ;-)
[15:24] <cjwatson> The question is a little more nuanced than ">1 => bad"
[15:24] <gilir> skaet: ok, thanks :)
[15:24] <skaet> more info should be known then too.  ;)
[15:24] <cjwatson> gilir: yes, if necessary (and I hope it's not) I'll be doing it in my free time
[15:24] <skaet> ..
[15:24] <gilir> but yes, it's maybe not usefull to have more than 1 alternate
[15:25] <gilir> cool, thanks cjwatson :)
[15:25] <gilir> ..
[15:25]  * ogra_ wasnt aware cjwatson had such a thing like "free time"
[15:25] <ogra_> ..
[15:26] <skaet> jibel,  new email format looks good and is useful.  :)  Thanks!  Question: bootspeed testing: has anyone started to look at why the plumbing has gone up by 5 seconds since the last runs?
[15:27]  * skaet just trying to figure out if its on a team's radar or not? 
[15:27] <jibel> skaet, we are struggling with hardware issue and the job is not stable yet. I wouldn't consider the results as reliable.
[15:27] <skaet> jibel,  fair nuf :)
[15:27] <skaet> thanks.
[15:28] <skaet> ..
[15:28]  * skaet was happy to see them again though ;)
[15:28] <skaet> seb128,  will we be picking up a unity/compiz stack update for A1?
[15:29] <seb128> skaet, no, refactoring is still going on for compiz as well as merging in one source
[15:29] <seb128> things are getting in shape but they will not make it for a1
[15:29] <ogra_> phew
[15:29] <skaet> seb128,  thanks.
[15:30]  * skaet crosses that worry point off her list ;)
[15:30] <skaet> ..
[15:30]  * ogra_ is happy he doesnt have to care for it for arm A1
[15:30] <ogra_> ..
[15:30] <skaet> Riddell, when is KDE SC 4.9 Beta 1 likely to land (before or after monday).   If it doesn't land,  does it make sense to spin up A1 images?  and which images make sense to release and ask for testing?
[15:30] <skaet> What's Kubuntu Active looking like?
[15:31]  * skaet referencing ScottK's comments in the Kubuntu status)
[15:31] <Riddell> 4.9 packages are avilable to packages but unknown if they'll be done by tuesday
[15:31] <Riddell> I've not looked at Kubuntu Active, I presume it looks just the same as precise unless you know different
[15:32] <Riddell> I think it makes sense to try for alpha 1 even without SC 4.9
[15:32] <skaet> no,  just figured there may be some different paths/packages so wasn't sure if it fell into the category of not worth asking for testing or not,  if 4.9 didn't land
[15:33] <Riddell> right I think kubuntu active can be missed for alpha 1
[15:34] <skaet> if you want to try for alpha 1 with the rest of Kubuntu without SC 4.9,  that's possible.
[15:34] <skaet> Can you reply to my manifest email,  and state which ones you want explicitly?
[15:34] <Riddell> desktop images anyway, not fussed about dvd and alternate
[15:34] <skaet> heh
[15:34] <Riddell> is that a recent e-mail?
[15:34] <skaet> that's what I was wanting to know.  ;)
[15:34] <skaet> yup,  ubuntu-release mail list
[15:34] <skaet> yesterday
[15:35] <skaet> trying to nail down what we're aiming at next week.
[15:35] <Riddell> ok added that to my todo list
[15:35] <skaet> balloons,  ^ see comment on Kubuntu desktop images ;)
[15:35] <skaet> thanks Riddell.  :)
[15:36] <skaet> ..
[15:36] <skaet> I think that's it for the questions I had from reading through the emails.   Thank you to those who got it mailed out by scheduled time yesterday :).
[15:36] <skaet> anyone else before we end meeting?
[15:37] <skaet> Thanks all.
[15:37] <skaet> #endmeeting
[15:37] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jun  1 15:37:40 2012 UTC.
[15:37] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-01-15.01.moin.txt
[15:37] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-01-15.01.html
[15:37] <mdeslaur> thanks!
[15:38] <seb128> thanks
[15:38] <stgraber> thanks!
[15:38] <ogra_> tnaks skaet
[15:38] <arosales> thanks skaet for chairing
[15:38] <jibel> thanks for chairing skaet
[15:39] <Daviey> thanks skaet
[15:39] <skaet> Have a good weekend.  :)
[15:40] <Daviey> Yes, Good long weekend.  God save the queen.
[15:40] <balloons> thanks skaet et la
[15:40] <xnox> thanks to all =)
[16:37] <penguin359> Did I miss the meeting?
[17:00] <jussi> penguin359: which meeting are you referring to?
[18:59] <penguin359> jussi: The Quantal Release meeting
[18:59] <jussi> penguin359: yup, its over a good while back
[18:59] <jussi> !logs
[19:01] <penguin359> I thought it was set at 1600 UTC.
[19:03] <jussi> no idea
[19:05] <Pendulum> penguin359: the Fridge calendar says 1500 UTC
[19:20] <penguin359> Does it shift with DST or is it 1500 UTC year round?
[19:20] <micahg> shifts with DST I think, it's consistent been 10 AM Central Time US
[19:45] <penguin359> That's probably my confusion, I read the time from a static webpage and added it to my calendar as UTC (No DST).  I expect it's more correctly 1600 BST, and not UTC.