[01:28] <ojwb> morning?
[01:28] <ajmitch> in australia, it is
[01:28] <ojwb> i just noticed nobody else seems to have said it yet today
[01:28] <ajmitch> you joined too late this morning
[01:28] <ojwb> hmm
[01:28]  * ojwb should be on permanently
[01:29] <ajmitch> by 10:37 we'd already bitched about redhat
[01:29] <ojwb> perhaps there were network issues
[01:29] <ajmitch> looks like you disappeared at 2:52 this morning
[01:29] <ajmitch> olly came back though
[01:31]  * ajmitch wishes the ubuntu software centre wasn't so slow
[01:31] <olly> so i did
[01:31] <ajmitch> between it & update-apt-xapian-index that it spawns, it's using 700MB of RAM
[01:32] <ojwb> while it's nice to see xapian's world domination advancing, having apt-xapian-index there by default can be problematic
[01:33] <ajmitch> it's used heavily by the software centre, and it's not lightweight
[01:33] <ojwb> i don't think it tries to tune itself for small systems
[01:34] <ojwb> it would benefit from a tunable max memory usage threshold, which xapian doesn't currently have
[01:34] <kcj> Morning.
[01:34] <ojwb> but it probably could tune the document flush threshold
[01:35] <ajmitch> right, it's still climbing in memory usage
[01:35] <ojwb> one of the many things on my "would be nice to poke at" list
[01:35]  * ajmitch decided to get the new humble indie bundle, though it'd be a good test of installing via the software centre
[01:36] <ajmitch> little things to fix, like still having to click 'buy' after having bought it :)
[01:36] <ojwb> ajmitch: what do you get if you install xapian-tools and run: delve /var/cache/software-center/xapian
[01:36] <ojwb> on debian testing, I only have 2135 entries
[01:37] <ojwb> i guess ubuntu's must be larger
[01:37] <ajmitch> probably a lot larger on my system, I've got a number of apt sources
[01:37] <ojwb> actually, I can check the old laptop
[01:38] <ojwb> 2380
[01:38] <ojwb> the apt-xapian-index is larger though - 33637
[01:39] <ojwb> on 36421 on debian testing
[01:39] <ojwb> or
[01:41] <ojwb> are you just measuring in top?
[01:41] <ajmitch> was just looking at resident size in top
[01:42] <ajmitch> & swearing as I waited for firefox to swap back in at times
[01:42] <ajmitch> number of documents = 2583
[01:42] <ajmitch> /usr/share/software-center/update-software-center-channels is still running & making my laptop fans spin :)
[01:46] <ojwb> /usr/sbin/update-apt-xapian-index -f seems to peak at about 228M resident for me
[01:46] <ajmitch> highest I saw was about 530MB before I got distracted by a phone call
[01:48] <ojwb> and at 152M if I patch it to do:
[01:48] <ojwb> import os
[01:48] <ojwb> os.environ['XAPIAN_FLUSH_THRESHOLD'] = '1000'
[01:48] <lifeless> 'morning'
[01:48] <ojwb> that's not the software centre one, which may contain more per entry
[01:48] <ojwb> but i don't have /usr/share/software-center/update-software-center-channels on either machine
[01:49] <ajmitch> both debian?
[01:49] <ojwb> debian and oneiric I think
[01:49] <ajmitch> might be new in precise then
[01:49] <ojwb> oh natty
[01:49] <ajmitch> old
[01:50] <ojwb> i didn't claim it wasn't...
[01:50] <ajmitch> precise has software-center 5.2, sid has 5.1.2debian2
[01:50] <ojwb> i'll update the ubuntu one at some point, but life's too busy to have to fix it if it doesn't go cleanly, so  I'm holding off for now
[01:51] <ajmitch> yeah it took me quite some time to bother upgrading my desktop at home
[01:54] <ojwb> the issues should be similar in character though
[01:55] <ojwb> lowering the flush threshold seems to reliably reduce the peak from 228 to 152 and makes it take about twice as long (33 secs to 1m15 with a warm cache)
[01:55] <ojwb> which for a low memory system is a good trade-off, especially if it'll get swappy at the higher value
[01:55] <ajmitch> the majority of the bugs on apt-xapian-index in LP look to be automated crash bugs
[01:56]  * ojwb wonders who decided launchpad wasn't getting enough bugs
[01:56] <ajmitch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-xapian-index/+bug/655831 looks to cover it being slow
[01:58] <ojwb> and like all the bugs I've seen, it degenerates into a meta discussion
[01:58] <ajmitch> of course
[01:58] <ojwb> i mean all the bugs about this
[01:59] <mwhudson> there needs to be a "you must be smarter than this stick -> | to post on this bug" feature
[01:59] <ojwb> though it's a bit of a feature of bug trackers
[01:59] <mwhudson> well, not smarter i guess
[01:59] <ojwb> and launchpad suffers particularly
[01:59] <mwhudson> "have more insight than"
[01:59] <mwhudson> ojwb: the downside of targeting human beings as users!
[01:59] <ojwb> yeah
[01:59] <ojwb> though the computer reported bugs don't seem much better
[02:00]  * ojwb likes spending most of his time on a project where the users are almost all developers
[02:00] <ojwb> and even then they fail to tell you minor details like the version of the software half the time
[02:01] <ajmitch> problem is, developers can have opinions
[02:01] <ojwb> how dare they
[02:02]  * ajmitch should unsubscribe from ubuntu-devel-discuss
[02:02] <mwhudson> i presume debian-legal is still a thing?
[02:03] <ajmitch> it still exists
[02:04] <ajmitch> mwhudson: you mentioned figlet yesterday
[02:04] <ajmitch> http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2012/05/msg00022.html
[02:04] <ajmitch> now relicensed to BSD
[02:04]  * ojwb will file a debian bug against apt-xapian-index - enrico's likely to respond sanely and addressing it for wheezy is probably the priority right now
[02:05] <mwhudson> ajmitch: hee hee
[11:14] <alberto> #channels
[21:43] <ojwb> morning
[22:42] <kcj> Morning.