/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/01/#ubuntu-us-ca.txt

raevolis facebook getting DDoSed or do the computer gods just hate me today01:03
pleia2I'm not having problems, but comments I've seen elsewhere on the internets do seem to indicate they're having some trouble01:04
raevolwhew. that makes me feel better01:05
raevoli spent all day at work trying to get my NIC on my work computer to function01:05
raevolno success01:05
raevolfacebook is lagging so hard I can't close facebook tabs...01:12
MarkDudephilipballew, I tagged you in a pic on FB nfrom UDS01:20
MarkDudethe official pics01:20
* pleia2 tagged jyo 01:22
pleia2lookin bored!01:22
MarkDudeYep a few more pics in tehre to be tagged01:23
raevolfacebook completely inaccessible now01:29
philipballewwheres the photo officially located?01:31
pleia2philipballew: http://www.pixoulphotography.com/01:31
* MarkDude would have been shocked if there was a pic of me in group photo- and blue shirt was visible01:32
pleia2http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Quantal-Quetzal/23155798_KrM3PW has the gallery01:32
akkWow, finding anyone in the group pic is not easy!01:34
MarkDudeThere are fb pics01:39
MarkDudeThe pics cant be tagged, until approved01:39
DonkeyHoteipeople all over irc are complaining that fb is down01:39
philipballewI am next to jono01:39
philipballewup for me DonkeyHotei01:39
DonkeyHoteii am prone to hyperbole01:40
akkI think I found pleia2, haven't found myself yet and I even know where I was standing.01:40
pleia2I'm in the back left01:41
DonkeyHoteiby "people all over irc" i mean one person in this channel and one other person in a completely unrelated channel (in the boston area)01:41
pleia2not easy to see really01:41
akkAh, yes, there's philipballew -- he and pleia2 both have hands in front of their faces (in the pic I'm looking at).01:41
philipballewjono's are iirc01:42
* akk tries one without hands01:42
philipballewthose are better imo01:43
guahah wow, dustin kirkland was right behind me02:36
philipballew_sounds scary02:47
guaphilipballew_: speaking of stalking, i think i spy a certain someone in this photo: http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Quantal-Quetzal/23155798_KrM3PW#!i=1865964211&k=tW922WT&lb=1&s=A02:48
guacan't hide anywhere, not at uds02:49
philipballew_gua, I bet its fun to be a uds photographer02:52
* MarkDude thinks the few pics he took there were fun to take. Being a pro would make it more fun, IMHO03:16
akkI love how facebook says "Mark has tagged two photos of you" and includes a link to the first one, and no way to find the second one.03:18
akkSuch a great UI, can't imagine why the stock isn't soaring.03:18
pleia2lol03:18
pleia2I never could grok facebook, I mostly stay away from it for fear I'll click on something and spam all my friends03:19
akkheh, yeah03:19
akkI like being able to connect with non-techies I'd never hear from otherwise03:20
akkbut I wish all those people would go to a site that actually works, instead :)03:20
pleia2yeah, I use it for my family mostly03:20
MarkDudeYep03:22
MarkDudeIts great for tech outliers03:22
MarkDudeto sorta get them involved. The other day FB locked me out of an event I created- WHILE it was happening03:23
akkIt kills me how non-techies gravitate toward these things like facebook and forums that I can't figure out how to use. How do they manage to use them?03:23
MarkDudeI could not add any updates or comment to TELL folks where to meet at Carnaval03:23
akklovely!03:23
* MarkDude just wishes he had some granular control, dont tell me what I want to see, let me create some filters03:24
MarkDudeFirst would be *ville03:24
MarkDudeEff all of that03:24
MarkDudeSry for swearing, I had to spend a few days blocking apps, just so I could make my feed readable03:25
akkAgreed, email me everything (or offer an RSS feed or whatever) and let me filter.03:25
akkShowing me some randomly chosen selection of stuff in a random order, mixing in some old stuff I've already seen, just makes me decide it's not worth the effort.03:26
akkMarkDude, you were talking earlier about mjg's post about what fedora is doing re secure boot -- has Ubuntu decided what they're doing yet?03:30
MarkDudeIm not sure, RH paying MS money is a bit odd-03:32
* MarkDude is going to have to read up on it. I expect some more questions on this at events03:32
akkYeah, infuriating (I'm infuriated at MS, not RH).03:33
MarkDudeYep, bad precedent03:33
MarkDudeRH is really defensive, most choices they make are about avoiding lawsuits03:34
MarkDudeAs long as it avoids being sued, its generally ok :D03:35
* MarkDude 's opinions are his own, not that of any projects he is involved with03:35
akkI don't have a problem with RH doing what they need to do -- I'm not sure there is any good solution for distro vendors.03:35
MarkDudeI agree03:36
akkmjg does a good job of outlining the problem and why they chose this solution.03:36
akk(as usual -- he's always very reasonable)03:36
MarkDudeFedora will have money to cover the costs, as will RH03:36
MarkDudeThe idea of all the other Distros not being able to do so- bugs me on a deep level03:37
akkYep.03:37
akkAt least it sounds like people who are clueful will be able to change the BIOS to turn off signing.03:38
akkSo users of Gentoo, Arch, Debian etc. (the techie distros) should be fine.03:38
* scientes is bugged by UEFI in general03:38
akkAnd Puppy is okay for a while, it's not for new hardware anyway.03:38
scientesakk, umm no gentoo cannot possibly participate03:39
MarkDudeIntel is making efforts with CoreBoot03:39
scientescause this requires central signing off all kernel and bootloader code03:39
scientesMarkDude, errrrrr, they have attacked coreboot in the past03:39
akkscientes: Anyone who's knowledgeable enough to install gentoo is techie enough to get into BIOS menus and turn off the signing.03:39
scientesamd has been doing MUCH better than intel on coreboot03:39
MarkDudeWont that make some of this moot? At least for the hardware they are making open?03:39
scientesthe big companies developing coreboot are AMD and Google03:40
scientes(they want to use it for the chromebook)03:40
MarkDudeWell all of this crap may be sorted in court03:40
MarkDudein a few years03:40
MarkDude<sigh>03:40
scientescause its not just about getting signing03:40
scienteswill fedora have two differn't kernels?03:41
scientesin order to set these complicated policies?03:41
DonkeyHoteigoogle beat oracle03:41
MarkDudeYAY for Oracle beatdowns03:41
akkThe chromebook boot is even weirder than UEFI, as far as booting other OSes.03:41
scientesor will it require selinux on the UEFI secureboot kernel in order to force this? with embedded rules inside the kernel?03:41
scientesakk, indeed, but they have been pushing coreboot so that FOSS can do what it wants regarding boot03:42
akkAnd more restrictive -- they have the same signing requirement but you can't turn it off.03:42
MarkDudeHmmmm03:43
scientesakk, there is documented root for chrome books03:43
scientesits just that you get a REALLY ugly boot screen, that cant be turned off, when in root mode03:43
akkscientes: You can install another distro that uses their signed kernel. You can't install a distro that needs a different kernel, or build your own kernel.03:43
MarkDudeHistory tells me that akk is right, altho this will soon start to get over my head03:43
akkI'm actually quoting from d -- he has chromebooks (dual-boot but with google's signed kernel), I don't.03:44
DonkeyHoteisigned coreboot? whiskey tango foxtrot03:44
scientesakk, also they are changing the kernel, cause the kernel allow alot of stuff via user-space (root user) that gives direct access to hardware, like user-mode-setting with X03:44
scientesakk, oh well then you might be right03:45
* scientes does not like chromeos at all03:45
scientesbut i the same time im not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater---Google's work on coreboot is awesome03:46
scientesAFAIK03:46
scientesDonkeyHotei, i don't think the coreboot is signed, just everything after it03:46
akkd says: in theory, you could build your own kenrel (for a chromebook) and sign it ... but in practice, nobody's actually managed it.03:46
akk(mostly because not many have bothered to try)03:47
scientesits like most of googles code: http://food.sndimg.com/img/recipes/22/78/2/large/picrIZyXg.jpg03:47
philipballew_our own epicvision has run into problems getting people to like ubuntu http://epikvision.blogspot.com/2012/05/quell-flames-shift-gears-educate-b4.html03:55
DonkeyHoteiscientes: if the coreboot doesn't need anything signed, then signing doesn't matter03:56
scientesDonkeyHotei, im just saying that i think coreboot is first, and whatever is first doesn't have anything to watch the watcher03:56
DonkeyHoteiexactly03:58
guai don't see why microsoft needs to be involved in the signing, just have verisign do it05:15
scientesgua, they don't have the mozilla root certs installed05:18
scientesits not about WHO you are talking to, its about not permitting anything that can lead to arbitrary code execution05:18
scientesin kernel mode05:18
scientesbut thats not really what it is about05:18
gualots of people have a general distrust of MS though. tons of articles around about 'distros having to pay MS'05:19
scientesits really about enabling state malware to be installed05:19
guabeholden to MS isn't something people are aching to be exactly05:19
scientesgua, well, the pci signing is limited to only one signature, so you are going to have microsoft's key installed to boot a computer with UEFI secure boot05:19
guascientes: yeah, being able to have multiple signatures would be one of the first things to change05:19
guain UEFI 2.005:20
scientesgua, no, no UEFI+105:20
guaalthough i wonder how much last-minute changes can go in05:20
scientesjust coreboot05:20
guaeh05:20
scientesUEFI needs to die05:20
scientesgua,  and you have no ideahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2aq5M3Q76U05:20
guaare mfrs going to go with coreboot?05:20
scientesthe signing format is so much a siemese twim to windows, that the signing format has "WIN" in the binary05:20
scientesits just moving the windows code signing system into a place where it can subvert linux and freedom05:21
guascientes: http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/12368.html05:21
scientes...even more05:21
scientesgua, yes i read05:21
guais what i'm referring to05:21
scientesthat talk i linked to is the same person who writes that blog05:21
guayeah, i think i've watched that talk05:22
guais mark shuttleworth in the group picture? i can't seem to find him06:40
philipballew_I did not see him06:50
=== mdrmike is now known as mdrmike|afk
* MarkDude got a mention for Partimus http://www.itworld.com/node/27936819:04
MarkDudeAltho , maybe not what they were hoping for19:04
pleia2MarkDude: I wish you wouldn't drag us into this :(19:12
MarkDudeI did not19:15
MarkDudeB Proffit listed Partimus as a Linux Distro19:15
* MarkDude has also made very clear- opinions are his own19:16
akk"free Expo passes (a coveted OSCON perk)"? For some reason I thought expo passes were free (I know passes to talks very much aren't).19:23
akkIt's too bad -- the dotcom area is always by far the most interesting of the OSCON expo hall.19:24
bkerensaakk: Expo Passes used to be free they started charging for them this year19:28
bkerensaakk: you mean the dot org? :P19:28
akkoops, yeah, dot org, duh19:31
pleia2I am hoping this makes it more interesting, no fedora and ubuntu booths means there are two booths which may be used by dotorgs you've never heard of and may be interesting :)19:42
pleia2there is limited space, I think the big distros can do a favor to little guys by stepping aside from time to time19:42
MarkDudeRumor has it both tables will be there for the Distros19:42
bkerensalol19:42
bkerensaMarkDude: where do you come up with this? :P19:43
MarkDudePossibly involving the 2 sharing a booth19:43
bkerensaIm sure things would have been fine either way :)19:43
MarkDudeCue the odd Couple them song19:43
MarkDudetheme19:43
pleia2it's not that odd, I really don't see this division between the ubuntu and fedora communities that you always go on about19:43
pleia2I work with plenty of fedora folks19:44
MarkDude<sarcasm font> implied19:44
bkerensayeah and I let you take a photo with me :P19:44
bkerensa:D19:44
* MarkDude made that suggestion19:44
MarkDudeWe are all on the same Penguin Team19:44
* bkerensa has a Redhat notebook somewhere19:44
bkerensaanyways moving on19:45
bkerensaHow is the weather in California?19:45
MarkDudepleia2, thats not fair- I was waering the Friends sticker at UDS for a real reason19:45
MarkDudePerfect bkerensa thats why we pay so much to live here19:45
bkerensaheh19:45
MarkDudeThats cool - you pay a fair amount to support the bike freaks19:46
bkerensaits 73 and overcast here :D19:46
MarkDudeYay- freak bikes19:46
bkerensaMarkDude: We have more bicyclists and runners than any other city ;)19:46
pleia2MarkDude: I'm sorry if you feel that way, but jokes don't come across well in IRC and I work very hard to break down barriers between communities, you do often make comments about Fedora vs Ubuntu which feels like it undermines that19:46
bkerensaAnd thats my cue to go run errands19:47
pleia2bkerensa: they are cleaning the windows in my building today, have to keep windows closed during this nice weather! stuffy in here :)19:47
bkerensa:D19:47
* MarkDude 's Linux is a cult - directly addresses that19:47
bkerensaI really do have to go run errands :P seeya guys enjoy the sun19:47
pleia2see you19:47
MarkDudeThe enemy is Apple19:47
pleia2why do we need an enemy? :)19:47
MarkDudeIf there is an enemy that is19:47
MarkDude:D19:47
pleia2I thought you california people were all peace-loving!19:48
MarkDudeMostly19:48
pleia2hehe19:48
akkha, you should see bay area people fight for parking spaces19:48
MarkDudeFor what its worth- Im still known as the Ubuntu Guy- in Fedora by many. I am given a hard time for liking Ubuntu so much19:49
pleia2at least they don't shoot each other over them (there are some things I don't miss about Philly :))19:49
MarkDudethe jokes are the same19:49
MarkDudeTaking me too serious is not advised, sarcasm font is implied unless other wise stated19:49
pleia2http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Neighbors-Shoot-Each-Other-Over-Parking-Spot-125402973.html19:49
pleia2ah fun19:49
pleia2MarkDude: fair enough19:49
* MarkDude is Man Of La Mancha- chasing windwills and such19:50
MarkDude:D19:50
* MarkDude wants to go to FOSScon, heard there are Masters degrees in profanity there19:50
pleia2(amusingly, the parking spot incident I was thinking about was a different one, in 2006 or so, nice to see things don't change)19:50
akkouch19:50
akkAnd in truth, I don't see much fighting over parking spots here (but OTOH I'm not in SF or Berkeley).19:51
pleia2mostly here in SF I just see people driving without paying attention (so they cut people off, don't let people in, block intersections)19:51
pleia2but I think that's mostly tourists driving and being lost19:52
* MarkDude has seen old ladies flip the bird over parking spots inSF19:52
raevolso19:53
raevolwhen you have pidgin open with the buddy list and conversation window19:53
raevoland you alt+tab to show desktop, so both windows get minimized19:53
raevolyou can't get the buddy list to restore without completely closing the conversation window19:53
raevol:(19:53
akkWe get plenty of that down here, people driving while texting or talking on phones so not paying attention.19:54
pleia2philly did a funny texting while walking april fools joke19:55
pleia2the mayor proposed a texting section of the sidewalk, they did a video, during which the mayor was speaking and someone texting kept wandering by oblivious and interrupting the segment :)19:56
akkhaha19:59
akkI saw two people almost walk into each other in Portland, both fixated on gmaps or something on their phones. :)20:00
=== izdubar is now known as MarkDude

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