[01:03] <raevol> is facebook getting DDoSed or do the computer gods just hate me today
[01:04] <pleia2> I'm not having problems, but comments I've seen elsewhere on the internets do seem to indicate they're having some trouble
[01:05] <raevol> whew. that makes me feel better
[01:05] <raevol> i spent all day at work trying to get my NIC on my work computer to function
[01:05] <raevol> no success
[01:12] <raevol> facebook is lagging so hard I can't close facebook tabs...
[01:20] <MarkDude> philipballew, I tagged you in a pic on FB nfrom UDS
[01:20] <MarkDude> the official pics
[01:22]  * pleia2 tagged jyo 
[01:22] <pleia2> lookin bored!
[01:23] <MarkDude> Yep a few more pics in tehre to be tagged
[01:29] <raevol> facebook completely inaccessible now
[01:31] <philipballew> wheres the photo officially located?
[01:31] <pleia2> philipballew: http://www.pixoulphotography.com/
[01:32]  * MarkDude would have been shocked if there was a pic of me in group photo- and blue shirt was visible
[01:32] <pleia2> http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Quantal-Quetzal/23155798_KrM3PW has the gallery
[01:34] <akk> Wow, finding anyone in the group pic is not easy!
[01:39] <MarkDude> There are fb pics
[01:39] <MarkDude> The pics cant be tagged, until approved
[01:39] <DonkeyHotei> people all over irc are complaining that fb is down
[01:39] <philipballew> I am next to jono
[01:39] <philipballew> up for me DonkeyHotei
[01:40] <DonkeyHotei> i am prone to hyperbole
[01:40] <akk> I think I found pleia2, haven't found myself yet and I even know where I was standing.
[01:41] <pleia2> I'm in the back left
[01:41] <DonkeyHotei> by "people all over irc" i mean one person in this channel and one other person in a completely unrelated channel (in the boston area)
[01:41] <pleia2> not easy to see really
[01:41] <akk> Ah, yes, there's philipballew -- he and pleia2 both have hands in front of their faces (in the pic I'm looking at).
[01:42] <philipballew> jono's are iirc
[01:42]  * akk tries one without hands
[01:43] <philipballew> those are better imo
[02:36] <gua> hah wow, dustin kirkland was right behind me
[02:47] <philipballew_> sounds scary
[02:48] <gua> philipballew_: speaking of stalking, i think i spy a certain someone in this photo: http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Quantal-Quetzal/23155798_KrM3PW#!i=1865964211&k=tW922WT&lb=1&s=A
[02:49] <gua> can't hide anywhere, not at uds
[02:52] <philipballew_> gua, I bet its fun to be a uds photographer
[03:16]  * MarkDude thinks the few pics he took there were fun to take. Being a pro would make it more fun, IMHO
[03:18] <akk> I love how facebook says "Mark has tagged two photos of you" and includes a link to the first one, and no way to find the second one.
[03:18] <akk> Such a great UI, can't imagine why the stock isn't soaring.
[03:18] <pleia2> lol
[03:19] <pleia2> I never could grok facebook, I mostly stay away from it for fear I'll click on something and spam all my friends
[03:19] <akk> heh, yeah
[03:20] <akk> I like being able to connect with non-techies I'd never hear from otherwise
[03:20] <akk> but I wish all those people would go to a site that actually works, instead :)
[03:20] <pleia2> yeah, I use it for my family mostly
[03:22] <MarkDude> Yep
[03:22] <MarkDude> Its great for tech outliers
[03:23] <MarkDude> to sorta get them involved. The other day FB locked me out of an event I created- WHILE it was happening
[03:23] <akk> It kills me how non-techies gravitate toward these things like facebook and forums that I can't figure out how to use. How do they manage to use them?
[03:23] <MarkDude> I could not add any updates or comment to TELL folks where to meet at Carnaval
[03:23] <akk> lovely!
[03:24]  * MarkDude just wishes he had some granular control, dont tell me what I want to see, let me create some filters
[03:24] <MarkDude> First would be *ville
[03:24] <MarkDude> Eff all of that
[03:25] <MarkDude> Sry for swearing, I had to spend a few days blocking apps, just so I could make my feed readable
[03:25] <akk> Agreed, email me everything (or offer an RSS feed or whatever) and let me filter.
[03:26] <akk> Showing me some randomly chosen selection of stuff in a random order, mixing in some old stuff I've already seen, just makes me decide it's not worth the effort.
[03:30] <akk> MarkDude, you were talking earlier about mjg's post about what fedora is doing re secure boot -- has Ubuntu decided what they're doing yet?
[03:32] <MarkDude> Im not sure, RH paying MS money is a bit odd-
[03:32]  * MarkDude is going to have to read up on it. I expect some more questions on this at events
[03:33] <akk> Yeah, infuriating (I'm infuriated at MS, not RH).
[03:33] <MarkDude> Yep, bad precedent
[03:34] <MarkDude> RH is really defensive, most choices they make are about avoiding lawsuits
[03:35] <MarkDude> As long as it avoids being sued, its generally ok :D
[03:35]  * MarkDude 's opinions are his own, not that of any projects he is involved with
[03:35] <akk> I don't have a problem with RH doing what they need to do -- I'm not sure there is any good solution for distro vendors.
[03:36] <MarkDude> I agree
[03:36] <akk> mjg does a good job of outlining the problem and why they chose this solution.
[03:36] <akk> (as usual -- he's always very reasonable)
[03:36] <MarkDude> Fedora will have money to cover the costs, as will RH
[03:37] <MarkDude> The idea of all the other Distros not being able to do so- bugs me on a deep level
[03:37] <akk> Yep.
[03:38] <akk> At least it sounds like people who are clueful will be able to change the BIOS to turn off signing.
[03:38] <akk> So users of Gentoo, Arch, Debian etc. (the techie distros) should be fine.
[03:38]  * scientes is bugged by UEFI in general
[03:38] <akk> And Puppy is okay for a while, it's not for new hardware anyway.
[03:39] <scientes> akk, umm no gentoo cannot possibly participate
[03:39] <MarkDude> Intel is making efforts with CoreBoot
[03:39] <scientes> cause this requires central signing off all kernel and bootloader code
[03:39] <scientes> MarkDude, errrrrr, they have attacked coreboot in the past
[03:39] <akk> scientes: Anyone who's knowledgeable enough to install gentoo is techie enough to get into BIOS menus and turn off the signing.
[03:39] <scientes> amd has been doing MUCH better than intel on coreboot
[03:39] <MarkDude> Wont that make some of this moot? At least for the hardware they are making open?
[03:40] <scientes> the big companies developing coreboot are AMD and Google
[03:40] <scientes> (they want to use it for the chromebook)
[03:40] <MarkDude> Well all of this crap may be sorted in court
[03:40] <MarkDude> in a few years

[03:40] <scientes> cause its not just about getting signing
[03:41] <scientes> will fedora have two differn't kernels?
[03:41] <scientes> in order to set these complicated policies?
[03:41] <DonkeyHotei> google beat oracle
[03:41] <MarkDude> YAY for Oracle beatdowns
[03:41] <akk> The chromebook boot is even weirder than UEFI, as far as booting other OSes.
[03:41] <scientes> or will it require selinux on the UEFI secureboot kernel in order to force this? with embedded rules inside the kernel?
[03:42] <scientes> akk, indeed, but they have been pushing coreboot so that FOSS can do what it wants regarding boot
[03:42] <akk> And more restrictive -- they have the same signing requirement but you can't turn it off.
[03:43] <MarkDude> Hmmmm
[03:43] <scientes> akk, there is documented root for chrome books
[03:43] <scientes> its just that you get a REALLY ugly boot screen, that cant be turned off, when in root mode
[03:43] <akk> scientes: You can install another distro that uses their signed kernel. You can't install a distro that needs a different kernel, or build your own kernel.
[03:43] <MarkDude> History tells me that akk is right, altho this will soon start to get over my head
[03:44] <akk> I'm actually quoting from d -- he has chromebooks (dual-boot but with google's signed kernel), I don't.
[03:44] <DonkeyHotei> signed coreboot? whiskey tango foxtrot
[03:44] <scientes> akk, also they are changing the kernel, cause the kernel allow alot of stuff via user-space (root user) that gives direct access to hardware, like user-mode-setting with X
[03:45] <scientes> akk, oh well then you might be right
[03:45]  * scientes does not like chromeos at all
[03:46] <scientes> but i the same time im not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater---Google's work on coreboot is awesome
[03:46] <scientes> AFAIK
[03:46] <scientes> DonkeyHotei, i don't think the coreboot is signed, just everything after it
[03:46] <akk> d says: in theory, you could build your own kenrel (for a chromebook) and sign it ... but in practice, nobody's actually managed it.
[03:47] <akk> (mostly because not many have bothered to try)
[03:47] <scientes> its like most of googles code: http://food.sndimg.com/img/recipes/22/78/2/large/picrIZyXg.jpg
[03:55] <philipballew_> our own epicvision has run into problems getting people to like ubuntu http://epikvision.blogspot.com/2012/05/quell-flames-shift-gears-educate-b4.html
[03:56] <DonkeyHotei> scientes: if the coreboot doesn't need anything signed, then signing doesn't matter
[03:56] <scientes> DonkeyHotei, im just saying that i think coreboot is first, and whatever is first doesn't have anything to watch the watcher
[03:58] <DonkeyHotei> exactly
[05:15] <gua> i don't see why microsoft needs to be involved in the signing, just have verisign do it
[05:18] <scientes> gua, they don't have the mozilla root certs installed
[05:18] <scientes> its not about WHO you are talking to, its about not permitting anything that can lead to arbitrary code execution
[05:18] <scientes> in kernel mode
[05:18] <scientes> but thats not really what it is about
[05:19] <gua> lots of people have a general distrust of MS though. tons of articles around about 'distros having to pay MS'
[05:19] <scientes> its really about enabling state malware to be installed
[05:19] <gua> beholden to MS isn't something people are aching to be exactly
[05:19] <scientes> gua, well, the pci signing is limited to only one signature, so you are going to have microsoft's key installed to boot a computer with UEFI secure boot
[05:19] <gua> scientes: yeah, being able to have multiple signatures would be one of the first things to change
[05:20] <gua> in UEFI 2.0
[05:20] <scientes> gua, no, no UEFI+1
[05:20] <gua> although i wonder how much last-minute changes can go in
[05:20] <scientes> just coreboot
[05:20] <gua> eh
[05:20] <scientes> UEFI needs to die
[05:20] <scientes> gua,  and you have no ideahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2aq5M3Q76U
[05:20] <gua> are mfrs going to go with coreboot?
[05:20] <scientes> the signing format is so much a siemese twim to windows, that the signing format has "WIN" in the binary
[05:21] <scientes> its just moving the windows code signing system into a place where it can subvert linux and freedom
[05:21] <gua> scientes: http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/12368.html
[05:21] <scientes> ...even more
[05:21] <scientes> gua, yes i read
[05:21] <gua> is what i'm referring to
[05:21] <scientes> that talk i linked to is the same person who writes that blog
[05:22] <gua> yeah, i think i've watched that talk
[06:40] <gua> is mark shuttleworth in the group picture? i can't seem to find him
[06:50] <philipballew_> I did not see him
[19:04]  * MarkDude got a mention for Partimus http://www.itworld.com/node/279368
[19:04] <MarkDude> Altho , maybe not what they were hoping for
[19:12] <pleia2> MarkDude: I wish you wouldn't drag us into this :(
[19:15] <MarkDude> I did not
[19:15] <MarkDude> B Proffit listed Partimus as a Linux Distro
[19:16]  * MarkDude has also made very clear- opinions are his own
[19:23] <akk> "free Expo passes (a coveted OSCON perk)"? For some reason I thought expo passes were free (I know passes to talks very much aren't).
[19:24] <akk> It's too bad -- the dotcom area is always by far the most interesting of the OSCON expo hall.
[19:28] <bkerensa> akk: Expo Passes used to be free they started charging for them this year
[19:28] <bkerensa> akk: you mean the dot org? :P
[19:31] <akk> oops, yeah, dot org, duh
[19:42] <pleia2> I am hoping this makes it more interesting, no fedora and ubuntu booths means there are two booths which may be used by dotorgs you've never heard of and may be interesting :)
[19:42] <pleia2> there is limited space, I think the big distros can do a favor to little guys by stepping aside from time to time
[19:42] <MarkDude> Rumor has it both tables will be there for the Distros
[19:42] <bkerensa> lol
[19:43] <bkerensa> MarkDude: where do you come up with this? :P
[19:43] <MarkDude> Possibly involving the 2 sharing a booth
[19:43] <bkerensa> Im sure things would have been fine either way :)
[19:43] <MarkDude> Cue the odd Couple them song
[19:43] <MarkDude> theme
[19:43] <pleia2> it's not that odd, I really don't see this division between the ubuntu and fedora communities that you always go on about
[19:44] <pleia2> I work with plenty of fedora folks
[19:44] <MarkDude> <sarcasm font> implied
[19:44] <bkerensa> yeah and I let you take a photo with me :P
[19:44] <bkerensa> :D
[19:44]  * MarkDude made that suggestion
[19:44] <MarkDude> We are all on the same Penguin Team
[19:44]  * bkerensa has a Redhat notebook somewhere
[19:45] <bkerensa> anyways moving on
[19:45] <bkerensa> How is the weather in California?
[19:45] <MarkDude> pleia2, thats not fair- I was waering the Friends sticker at UDS for a real reason
[19:45] <MarkDude> Perfect bkerensa thats why we pay so much to live here
[19:45] <bkerensa> heh
[19:46] <MarkDude> Thats cool - you pay a fair amount to support the bike freaks
[19:46] <bkerensa> its 73 and overcast here :D
[19:46] <MarkDude> Yay- freak bikes
[19:46] <bkerensa> MarkDude: We have more bicyclists and runners than any other city ;)
[19:46] <pleia2> MarkDude: I'm sorry if you feel that way, but jokes don't come across well in IRC and I work very hard to break down barriers between communities, you do often make comments about Fedora vs Ubuntu which feels like it undermines that
[19:47] <bkerensa> And thats my cue to go run errands
[19:47] <pleia2> bkerensa: they are cleaning the windows in my building today, have to keep windows closed during this nice weather! stuffy in here :)
[19:47] <bkerensa> :D
[19:47]  * MarkDude 's Linux is a cult - directly addresses that
[19:47] <bkerensa> I really do have to go run errands :P seeya guys enjoy the sun
[19:47] <pleia2> see you
[19:47] <MarkDude> The enemy is Apple
[19:47] <pleia2> why do we need an enemy? :)
[19:47] <MarkDude> If there is an enemy that is
[19:47] <MarkDude> :D
[19:48] <pleia2> I thought you california people were all peace-loving!
[19:48] <MarkDude> Mostly
[19:48] <pleia2> hehe
[19:48] <akk> ha, you should see bay area people fight for parking spaces
[19:49] <MarkDude> For what its worth- Im still known as the Ubuntu Guy- in Fedora by many. I am given a hard time for liking Ubuntu so much
[19:49] <pleia2> at least they don't shoot each other over them (there are some things I don't miss about Philly :))
[19:49] <MarkDude> the jokes are the same
[19:49] <MarkDude> Taking me too serious is not advised, sarcasm font is implied unless other wise stated
[19:49] <pleia2> http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Neighbors-Shoot-Each-Other-Over-Parking-Spot-125402973.html
[19:49] <pleia2> ah fun
[19:49] <pleia2> MarkDude: fair enough
[19:50]  * MarkDude is Man Of La Mancha- chasing windwills and such
[19:50] <MarkDude> :D
[19:50]  * MarkDude wants to go to FOSScon, heard there are Masters degrees in profanity there
[19:50] <pleia2> (amusingly, the parking spot incident I was thinking about was a different one, in 2006 or so, nice to see things don't change)
[19:50] <akk> ouch
[19:51] <akk> And in truth, I don't see much fighting over parking spots here (but OTOH I'm not in SF or Berkeley).
[19:51] <pleia2> mostly here in SF I just see people driving without paying attention (so they cut people off, don't let people in, block intersections)
[19:52] <pleia2> but I think that's mostly tourists driving and being lost
[19:52]  * MarkDude has seen old ladies flip the bird over parking spots inSF
[19:53] <raevol> so
[19:53] <raevol> when you have pidgin open with the buddy list and conversation window
[19:53] <raevol> and you alt+tab to show desktop, so both windows get minimized
[19:53] <raevol> you can't get the buddy list to restore without completely closing the conversation window
[19:53] <raevol> :(
[19:54] <akk> We get plenty of that down here, people driving while texting or talking on phones so not paying attention.
[19:55] <pleia2> philly did a funny texting while walking april fools joke
[19:56] <pleia2> the mayor proposed a texting section of the sidewalk, they did a video, during which the mayor was speaking and someone texting kept wandering by oblivious and interrupting the segment :)
[19:59] <akk> haha
[20:00] <akk> I saw two people almost walk into each other in Portland, both fixated on gmaps or something on their phones. :)