[00:00] <directhex> ought to be okay, from that
[00:00] <penguin42> OY1R: I mean the good thing there is that it found there is a display on VGA, it's got the wrong res, but it's got the display
[00:00] <dwatkins> http://forum.oktabit.gr/files/PB_Maestro_240_TV.jpg and other pictures show n physical input selector, so I assume it's done from the remote, but the xrandr suggests the laptop 'sees' the display, it's just not initialising it, I guess.
[00:00] <penguin42> directhex: It's possible the display doesn't really like the 1152x864 ?
[00:00] <dwatkins> *no
[00:00] <directhex> if you click the button on the top right of the screen, then click "displays" (second option) it's got 2 screens listed?
[00:01] <directhex> you may need to untick "mirror displays" for it to show both
[00:01] <OY1R> penguin42, http://pastebin.com/eEZjCF3t
[00:02] <penguin42> OY1R: 2 more things, what res were you using the CRT at, and is it the VGA socket on the back of the monitor you're using or the phono set?
[00:03] <penguin42> OY1R: Well, it's good you're not using the Nvidia drivers, because you've got an ATI Radeon
[00:03] <OY1R> the crt runs @ 1600x1200
[00:05] <OY1R> phono set? ?
[00:05] <penguin42> OY1R: It's a VGA<->VGA lead ?
[00:05] <OY1R> i only have vga<>vga
[00:05] <penguin42> that Xorg.0.log is fine
[00:06] <penguin42> OY1R: OK, so if you bring up the monitor selector dialog, I assume it shows both monitors?  Does it show it as being mirrored? Does it show both monitors as being on?
[00:06] <OY1R> they are not mirrored and both are ON
[00:07] <penguin42> OY1R: OK, and what res does it think the external is set to?
[00:07] <OY1R> penguin42, once i connect it, resolution is set at 1920x1080 (highest)
[00:08] <penguin42> OY1R: Really? That's not what the xrandr seemed to say?
[00:08] <penguin42> oh sorry, yes it did
[00:09] <penguin42> OY1R: Try knocking that res down, as dwatkins suggested - see what happens
[00:09] <OY1R> penguin42, i have tried the whole list
[00:10] <penguin42> OY1R: Weird, what model laptop is this?
[00:10] <OY1R> inspiron 9400
[00:10] <OY1R> dell
[00:10] <penguin42> nod
[00:11]  * penguin42 is out of ideas - from those logs everything looks happy
[00:11] <OY1R> i just took a screen shot, and both screens are there
[00:12] <OY1R> i see both backgrounds and an open window on the secondary monitor in the screen shot, so it is fed video data, it's just in "no signal" mode or something like that.
[00:13] <penguin42> OY1R: Have you got a spare VGA lead?
[00:13] <OY1R> penguin42, yes, i tried it as well
[00:14] <penguin42> sorry, out of ideas
[00:15] <OY1R> snap
[00:15] <OY1R> thanks for trying tho.
[00:16] <penguin42> OY1R: If you boot with it plugged in do you see the BIOS display on it?
[00:16] <OY1R> No
[00:17] <penguin42> that's pretty odd
[00:17] <penguin42> OY1R: I've heard of TVs that are 1920x1080 like that one, but they can't do 1920x1080 on the VGA - but you've said you've tried lower res, I've also seen ones that have to select that input and stuff - but you said you used it on a vista laptop
[00:18] <OY1R> looking at it now on the vista laptop, runs fine both mirrored and extended
[00:18] <penguin42> OY1R: Have you got an Ubuntu boot cd/thumb drive you can try booting on that vista laptop?
[00:19] <OY1R> at full res, once i unplug it i get " no cable connected" and when i plug it in the ubuntu laptop it says "No signal" and powers down/sleeps
[00:19] <OY1R> hmm mi have not tried that
[00:19] <OY1R> i'll give it a shot
[00:20] <penguin42> OY1R: I'd try that, and the other thing I'd try is a 12.04 boot CD/thumb on your 10.04 laptop
[00:20] <ali1234> we get someone with this problem at least once a week
[00:20] <penguin42> ali1234: Monitor problems yes, but this one is a bit unusual
[00:20] <ali1234> always with HDTVs
[00:21] <penguin42> ali1234: I know there are problems with 1366x768 TVs, not seen/known of it with 1920's
[00:21] <ali1234> i suspect it is something to do wth HDCP
[00:21] <penguin42> ali1234: It's on VGA
[00:21] <OY1R> ubuntu live cd runs fine on the "vista" latop
[00:21] <ali1234> exactly
[00:21] <penguin42> ali1234: But it's on VGA - it can't be expecting HDCP
[00:21] <ali1234> VGA doesn't support HDCP for obvious reasons
[00:22] <penguin42> OY1R: OK so live cd on vista laptop works on this display - what about that live cd on the unhappy laptop?
[00:22] <OY1R> penguin42, i tried that, didnt work.
[00:22] <penguin42> OY1R: OK, what version is the live cd?
[00:22] <OY1R> 9.04
[00:23] <penguin42> OY1R: Well, only things I can think left to try (other than poking options on the monitor) are a) try a 12.04 live cd, b) try installing the radeon closed source drivers - not necessarily in that order
[00:24] <penguin42> OY1R: but IMHO it's odd that it wont see it from the BIOS screen
[00:24] <OY1R> i dont have the balls to mess with drivers atm, i need the laptop in working order on Monday at 8:30
[00:24] <OY1R> i just have to replace the monitor.
[00:25] <penguin42> OY1R: I've heard of monitor/machine incompatibilities - it's very rare though
[00:25] <OY1R> ok
[00:25] <penguin42> OY1R: Then try a 12.04 boot CD - if it works then you know you have a way out
[00:25] <ali1234> what do + and * mean on xrandr output?
[00:25] <penguin42> ali1234: Can't remember!
[00:26] <penguin42> ali1234: One of them is 'currently selected'
[00:26] <ali1234> one is current mode
[00:26] <ali1234> + is preferred more
[00:26] <ali1234> current mode used for the TV is 1152x864       75.0*
[00:26] <ali1234> it seems unlikely that that would work
[00:27] <penguin42> There was a fun bug in the Intel drivers a while back where one guys monitor only worked when it was the right temperature (due to a screw up int he way i2c was driven)
[00:27] <penguin42> ali1234: But hey said he tried all the modes
[00:27] <OY1R> can 12.04 use gnome ?
[00:27] <ali1234> 800x600?
[00:28] <ali1234> or 1024x768@60
[00:28] <penguin42> OY1R: Not gnome2 with the standard install - but youcan add the packages from mate-desktop.org that is a back ported gnome2
[00:28] <penguin42> OY1R: Actually, when you plug it into the Vista machine, what res does the vista machine think it's driving the monitor at?
[00:29] <OY1R> penguin42, vista sets the monitor at 1920x1080
[00:29] <ali1234> good question :)
[00:29] <penguin42> hmph
[00:31] <OY1R> screen shot i tool > http://postimage.org/image/rfbdtn7bp/full/
[00:31] <OY1R> the video data is there but the monitor does not want to switch on.
[00:31] <ali1234> that mode sn't even in the xrandr list
[00:32] <penguin42> ali1234: It i, the internal LCD is selected there - it's showing it's res
[00:33] <ali1234> set the mode to 800x600 60Hz then switch the TV to a different input and then back again
[00:34] <OY1R> i cant select anything on the monitor, it needs to be ON in order to access the menu
[00:34] <ali1234> turn it on then
[00:34] <OY1R> hehe i cant
[00:35] <ali1234> i don't understand
[00:35] <OY1R> well it says "No Signal" for a few seconds then turns off
[00:35] <OY1R> or goes to sleep
[00:35] <ali1234> the monitor has a tuner?
[00:35] <ali1234> the picture you posted has an RF input on it
[00:36] <ali1234> and scart for that matter
[00:36] <OY1R> no it does not!
[00:36] <ali1234> it only has VGA?
[00:36] <OY1R> it's a pc monitor, it has a dvi and vga only.
[00:37] <ali1234> i dunno then
[00:38] <ali1234> what happens if you reboot and enter the system bios with the external display connected?
[00:38] <penguin42> ali1234: Doesn't show anything - see above
[00:39] <OY1R> http://s14.postimage.org/c9vh3q3gx/Screenshot_2.png
[00:40] <OY1R> ali1234, no image on the external device when in bios either.
[00:42] <ali1234> Modeline "1920x1080"x0.0  148.50  1920 2008 2052 2200  1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync (67.5 kHz)
[00:47] <ali1234> Modeline "1920x1080"x60.0  172.80  1920 2040 2248 2576  1080 1081 1084 1118 -hsync +vsync (67.1 kHz)
[00:47] <ali1234> weird
[00:51] <ali1234> the problem here is almost certainly bad EDID, with X being more willing to try odd modes than vista
[00:51] <ali1234> and both the 1080 modes have same overall refresh rate so there's no way to tell which it is using from xrandr
[00:51] <penguin42> ali1234: Except none of the modes work - not just the 1920
[00:52] <ali1234> yeah but you can't try both of the 1080 modes
[00:52] <ali1234> because xrandr is only listing one of them
[00:52] <penguin42> ali1234: Right, but if it's just one duff modeline that can't be the problem
[00:53] <penguin42> ali1234: Oh, add in the fact that it works on his other laptop with a 9.04 boot cd
[00:53] <ali1234> other laptop has what graphics card?
[00:53] <penguin42> dunno
[00:53] <ali1234> modeline choice is dictated by the graphics driver, which takes the EDID and calculates all valid modes; some of them calculate it better than others
[00:55] <ali1234> that second 1080 modeine i pasted has an excessive amount of overscan and also different sync polarity
[00:55] <penguin42> yeh, tvs often have odd overscan values
[00:55] <ali1234> but this isn't a TV
[00:56] <penguin42> oh yeh
[00:57] <penguin42> anyway, I'll stick with the previous recommendation; try a 12.04 boot cd, and try the closed radeon driver - not necessarily in that order
[00:57] <ali1234> i would set IgnoreEDID in xorg.conf and then write modelines by hand until i found one that worked
[00:58] <ali1234> but that takes time and effort
[00:58] <ali1234> oh, and i wouldn't bother using the open source drivers
[00:59] <penguin42> ali1234: They work well for me, and they worked fine for him on his previous monitor!
[00:59] <penguin42> (but he is on 10.04 at the moment and they were young then)
[01:21] <OY1R> i packed up the monitor i'll have it replaced tomorrow.
[01:28] <penguin42> OY1R: Good luck
[07:38] <popey> Morning
[07:39] <_serial_> Hi all :) I don't suppose you guys/gals know of any editor that can change the Unity panel colour?  At current I'm changing via CSS and the unity.css located in /usr/share/themes/
[07:40] <_serial_> The dash is covered via ubuntu-tweak
[07:40] <_serial_> but no panel :(
[07:45] <popey> _serial_: myunity?
[07:46] <_serial_> thank you popey :)
[08:18] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:19] <MartijnVdS> howdy AlanBell
[08:56] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:58] <dwatkins> hiya folks
[08:58]  * dwatkins waits patiently for his Raspberry Pi to arrive
[08:58] <brobostigon> hi dwatkins
[09:01] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: PI!
[09:01]  * MartijnVdS assembled a case yesterday
[09:01] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
[09:02] <dwatkins> I also ordered a case from ModMyPi, which I should get later this month.
[09:02] <MartijnVdS> I have the Shropshire LUG one
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> http://shropshirelug.wordpress.com/2012/04/21/raspberry-pi-cases-now-available-5/
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251053134771#
[09:03] <dwatkins> very nice :)
[09:03] <popey> i removed the cover from mine
[09:03] <popey> so i can get to the connectors inside
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> popey: yeah I might do that too
[09:04] <Myrtti> lol
[09:04] <popey> its still structurally sound
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: lawl?
[09:04] <dwatkins> popey: completely, or just part of the cover?
[09:04] <Myrtti> I baked pie cases yesterday  ;-)
[09:04] <popey> the whole top
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> popey: Or I might get the Adafruit case http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2012/05/29/raspberry-pi-case-preview/
[09:04] <popey> yeah, it makes it look like that adafruit one
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> it has a ribbon cable output
[09:05] <Myrtti> Adafruit one looks good
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> I love how there's an entire industry growing around it
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> hardware people making cases, software people porting their distros, etc.
[09:07] <popey> thats kinda the idea ☺
[09:07] <popey> but its no different than arduino or beagle is it?
[09:07] <popey> more mainstream perhaps?
[09:07] <kvarley> popey: Difference is - the Raspberry Pi Foundation aren't getting a huge chunk of profit
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> popey: I didn't know about Arduino and Beagle before they were released
[09:08] <directhex> no, broadcom are :p
[09:08] <popey> nobody gets huge profit with arduino or beagle either
[09:08] <popey> yeah, raspi is to broadcom as beagle is to TI
[09:09] <directhex> pi is what happens when a major set-top box manufacturer cancels an order after the chips are at the fab
[09:09] <popey> and the other one.. panda
[09:09] <kvarley> popey: With the beagleboard-xm somebody has to, I mean - £140 for the board. The components and distribution can't cost that much, can they?
[09:09]  * kvarley has a beagleboard-xm
[09:09]  * popey has a beaglebone
[09:09] <kvarley> hehe
[09:09] <popey> not 140 quid
[09:09]  * directhex has an efikamx
[09:09] <directhex> freescale powah!
[09:09] <kvarley> popey: My beagleboard-xm was £140 from Farnell
[09:09]  * MartijnVdS imagines popey's house to be made out of computers
[09:09] <kvarley> Beaglebone is lower in price? £80?
[09:09] <popey> no, i mean the comparable beaglebone
[09:09] <popey> yeah
[09:10] <kvarley> I think all these small boards/devices that are springing up are amazing - especially for getting Linux ... well ... even more domination xd
[09:10] <popey> or android ☺
[09:10] <popey> that new VIA one looks interesting
[09:10] <directhex> android ¬_¬
[09:11] <directhex> what are these things gonna run other than the linux kernel? windows ce?
[09:11] <kvarley> popey: have you seen the Linux Mint PC announcement? fanless, small form factor - looks promising
[09:11] <MartijnVdS> directhex: aka "wince" 8-)
[09:11] <kvarley> directhex: Microsoft would have you believe it could run Windows 8 ... yeah right
[09:11] <popey> kvarley: i have
[09:12] <directhex> kvarley, well, not really, windows 8 arm has *very* exact requirements, which no £30 board will match
[09:12] <popey> mint has no mass-market future IMO
[09:13] <kvarley> directhex: I bet their requirements are too low as well. For example, you can't run windows 7 without a minimum of 2GB RAM and even that's not enough lol
[09:14] <directhex> kvarley, they've done a decent job with the WP7 requirements. i can't imagine W8 ARM being different
[09:14] <kvarley> popey: True - although - do you think Ubuntu has?
[09:14] <popey> yes, of course
[09:14] <popey> I can't see any tier-1 vendor shipping mint
[09:14] <directhex> mint, the distro with all the stuff ubuntu can't legally ship, shipping on hardware?
[09:14] <directhex> this can't possibly go wrong 8D
[09:15] <kvarley> I think Ubuntu needs to target lower power devices again ... i.e. make it faster on common slower harware. Aside from that I'm totally itching to get my hands on an Android  phone with Ubuntu on it
[09:15] <popey> why?
[09:15] <popey> whats the lowest spec desktop you can buy now?
[09:15] <popey> or laptop
[09:17] <kvarley> popey: 1.6 GHz dual core with 2 GB ram ?
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> good enough for Ubuntu \
[09:17] <kvarley> I can't run unity on that hardware
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> you can
[09:18] <popey> i run it on lower
[09:18] <kvarley> Or at least, I can't run it without waiting a while for each menu
[09:18] <directhex> dash is slow on any hardware.
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> I made the cheapest PC I could find, with an AMD on-board graphics thing
[09:18] <directhex> well, maybe not with an ssd
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> worked out of the box
[09:18] <popey> not everyone buys the lowest spec machine
[09:18] <kvarley> True
[09:18] <directhex> takes about a second on this i7
[09:18] <kvarley> I have no issues with unity other than maybe it could be more optimised
[09:18] <popey> yeah, it could always be faster ☺
[09:18] <kvarley> I suspect that hardware I said it can't run on is failing anyway
[09:19] <kvarley> GPU runs at 75 degrees celcius and the fans are always running really fast
[09:19]  * kvarley needs to get rid of it lol
[09:19] <MartijnVdS> clear the dust out of it
[09:19] <popey> i cant see a tablet or phone running a full ubuntu desktop stack
[09:20] <kvarley> popey: Unity got ported to Open GL ES so maybe it'd work on tablets
[09:20] <directhex> kvarley, 75 isn't much for a GPU
[09:20] <directhex> therman cutout on a geforce is >100
[09:20] <kvarley> directhex: It's in a netbook tho so it burns to touch it lol
[09:20] <popey> yeah, maybe
[09:32] <popey> oh and there's elementary OS too just out..
[09:32] <popey> it does amuse me that these ubuntu derivatives claim LTS status.
[09:33]  * popey wonders who is responsible for the non-ubuntu bits in 5 years time
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> popey: you will be
[09:34] <popey> nope ☺
[09:37] <dwatkins> has anyone here used the GPIO header on the Pi yet?
[09:37] <dwatkins> Just curious as to what applications it can have.
[09:38]  * popey installs arduino (and thus java) on his arm based laptop
[09:38]  * popey wonders how badly this will run
[09:39] <dwatkins> An ARM based laptop? What is this witchcraft? ;)
[09:39] <popey> its an old toshiba ac100
[09:39] <popey> ships with android
[09:39] <popey> !ac100
[09:39] <popey> bah, stupid bot
[09:39] <dwatkins> ah I see, for a second I thought you might have built a laptop out of a RaspPi, popey :)
[09:39] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/TEGRA/AC100
[09:39] <popey> hah
[09:40] <dwatkins> I have discussed the possibility of fitting a RaspPi with a 7-inch screen and bluetooth keyboard into one of those kids' laptop cases with someone I know.
[09:40] <popey> heh
[09:40] <popey> i always wanted to put a cell phone in a kids toy phone
[09:41] <dwatkins> http://is03.thegumtree.com/image/big/107643459.jpg and http://www.kaboodle.com/reviews/winfun-laptop-junior-cow
[09:42] <popey> buzz_: happy birthday!
[09:42] <buzz_> heh thanks popey :)
[09:42] <buzz_> im not really sat on irfc on my bd. just checking in before my bath
[09:42] <dwatkins> many happy returns, buzz_
[09:43] <buzz_> :)
[09:44] <popey> yay, arduino works on arm
[09:45] <buzz_> popey, done much with your raspberry pi? just got mine - although still in its box
[09:45] <buzz_> i need to get a case, i saw you posted about one the other day that looks nice
[09:45] <popey> not a lot
[09:45] <popey> yeah MartijnVdS has the same case, we were talking about it earlier here
[09:48] <buzz_> i wanted to play with xbmc on the pi, and perhaps as a router also
[09:48] <popey> kvarley: has made an image of openelec with xbmc on board
[09:49] <popey> http://kvarley.co.uk/RaspberryPi/OpenELEC/
[09:49] <kvarley> popey: =]
[09:49] <kvarley> Only thing you may need to do is after the first boot resize your second partition to fill the card.
[09:49] <buzz_> nice
[09:49]  * popey pinps that a bit
[09:49] <popey> *pimps
[09:49] <kvarley> I'm working on a boot script to do it automatically for the next revision
[09:50] <popey> you on G+ kvarley ?
[09:50] <kvarley> popey: have an account but never use it
[09:50] <popey> ok
[09:50] <dwatkins> automatic resize sounds really handy
[09:51] <dwatkins> I assume that would be with resizefs
[09:51] <kvarley> dwatkins: yup
[09:51] <kvarley> The openelec automatically checks for /storage/.config/autostart.sh
[09:52] <buzz_> i started backported the libjpegturbo stuff from xbmc mainline to xbmc4xbox. massive difference for image viewing and especially thumbnailing. seems to be a memory leak though in my code. erg
[09:52] <popey> kvarley: you might get some more hits now ☺
[09:52] <kvarley> So I'm just gonna add a hook to call a resize function
[09:52] <kvarley> popey: hehe - why?
[09:54] <popey> kvarley: tweeted it and G+'ed it
[09:56] <kvarley> popey: Thank you =]
[09:56] <kvarley> popey: I'm nearly in a position to automate the build and upload process
[09:57] <popey> oh thats even better
[09:57] <popey> daily builds
[09:57] <kvarley> Just looking at the ubuntu one api
[10:03] <bigcalm> Hullo peeps :)
[10:06] <popey> pip pip
[10:07] <kvarley> Can it really be as simple as "resize2fs /dev/mmcblk0p2" ? lol
[10:07] <dwatkins> you need to edit the fstab data first
[10:08] <dwatkins> as I understand it, resize2fs grows the partition to fill the space indicated by the new partition table, but it must begin at the same exact byte as the filesystem starts
[10:15] <bigcalm> popey: have I been missing much?
[10:18] <kvarley> dwatkins: you're right
[10:19] <kvarley> dwatkins: For my purposes I can just remove the partition and make a new one which is proportional to the device's size
[10:20] <dwatkins> ah ok cool, kvarley
[10:24] <popey> bigcalm: oh, you're "back" back?
[10:25] <bigcalm> popey: back in merry old England, in my office, trying not to work
[10:26] <bigcalm> Also, I'm not using bigcalm_laptop ;)
[10:27] <Pendulum> bigcalm: get out of your house. Or at least off the computer :P
[10:28] <bigcalm> Pendulum: I will once Hayley has stopped using her computer :P
[11:19] <kvarley> popey: Resize script is a no-go
[11:19] <kvarley> popey: Can't seem to unmount the second partition after boot
[11:50]  * AlanBell plays with a pi
[11:51] <penguin42> doing anything fun with it?
[11:52] <AlanBell> making several debian SD cards at the moment
[11:52] <AlanBell> I was trying to install gnome on it, but I got in a bit of a muddle
[11:53] <AlanBell> I might end up using it as an irssi terminal in the office
[11:54] <AlanBell> and as a general always on thing I can get to in the office, maybe with a webcam attached to it
[11:55] <AlanBell> it seems a class 10 SD card really is quite a lot faster than a class 4 SD card
[11:58] <penguin42> 2.5 times faster?
[11:59] <penguin42> AlanBell: Be a little careful, there are apparently some that are fast at specific things - like single streams (optimised for video, great at dd speed but not great for file access)
[11:59] <AlanBell> well with the class 4 ones it seems to be taking longer to get onto the card than it did to download
[12:01] <penguin42> AlanBell: Some SD cards are AWFULlY slow, and some SD interfaces are awful, put the two together and you may as well be using punch card
[12:01] <popey> AlanBell: which class 10 device do you have?
[12:01] <AlanBell> popey: an oggcamp vintage 16GB class 10 SD card from the cameras
[12:02] <penguin42> AlanBell: https://wiki.linaro.org/WorkingGroups/Kernel/Projects/FlashCardSurvey    has some details and a bit of a survey
[12:02] <AlanBell> it took 724.841 seconds to dd the pi debian image to the class 4 device. will try the class 10 again shortly after I grow the partitions on this one
[12:06] <penguin42> AlanBell: I assume you were using a decent blocksize?
[12:07] <AlanBell> no, forgot about that
[12:08] <AlanBell> hmm, maybe it isn't massively faster
[12:10] <AlanBell> anyhow, I will let this run on the class 10, then repeat with a block size set
[12:12] <penguin42> oh, use a bs of at least 128k
[12:20] <popey> does blocksize make a big difference?
[12:21] <AlanBell> 378.601 s for the class 10 device with default blocksize
[12:21] <penguin42> what size is your file?
[12:22] <AlanBell> 1.9GB
[12:22] <penguin42> AlanBell: I mean that's not too bad - 5MB/s
[12:22] <AlanBell> 69.5577 s with a 1MB blocksize
[12:22] <AlanBell> 28MB/s
[12:23] <AlanBell> on the class 10 SD card
[12:24] <penguin42> AlanBell: It's very difficult to know - I mean a class 10 card is supposed to mean 10 MB/s (according to wikipedia) - so who the heck knows what's going on
[12:24] <AlanBell> well clearly block size makes a huge difference
[12:24] <AlanBell> trying the class 4 with a 1M blocksize
[12:28] <AlanBell>  228.404 s for the class 4 with 1M blocksize
[12:39] <AlanBell> I wish stuff on SD cards and USB cards didn't require sudo access
[12:44] <penguin42> ?
[12:44] <AlanBell> maybe it should, but with gparted and dd I could so easily be installing a raspberry pi image on sda by accident
[12:45] <AlanBell> that would be a bad thing
[12:49] <penguin42> AlanBell: I'm sure you could set up a udev rule appropriately
[12:50] <AlanBell> 135.117 s for a class 8 card
[13:03] <MartijnVdS> I needs more CPU!
[13:04] <MartijnVdS> Video encoding + RAW image decoding = ouch @ i3
[13:04] <AlanBell> yeah, that is nearly as processor intensive as adding a file to Ubuntu One
[13:10] <AlanBell> 414.804 s to copy the image to an elderly unrated 2GB SD card
[13:10] <AlanBell> whilst uploading stuff to Ubuntu One so my processor was maxed out
[13:16] <MartijnVdS> wut
[13:16] <MartijnVdS> how is that cpu-bound and not network-bound?
[13:17] <AlanBell> I have no idea
[13:17] <AlanBell> it has calmed down a bit, but it was sending the fans crazy
[13:18] <AlanBell> it was a folder of 331MB and 29,000 files so maybe it was doing lots of hashing and stuff first
[13:21] <czajkowski> aloha
[13:21] <AlanBell> hi czajkowski, got your bunting up?
[13:23] <czajkowski> ah no :)
[13:23] <czajkowski> so not very me
[13:34] <AlanBell> I now have 5 assorted SD cards with debian raspberry pi images on them
[15:58] <MartijnVdS> \o/ firmware bug in DSL modem fixed
[16:00] <MartijnVdS> I can now connect it to my gbit switch without link dropping 30% of the time
[16:14] <ali1234> bastion is up in the software centre :D
[16:17] <ali1234> popey: using lowest available spec to buy as an excuse for dropping hardware support is a bad idea because once you go down that path you can justify it at every release
[16:19] <ali1234> supposing i buy that lowest-possible-spec machine today. ok, fine, ubuntu runs on it
[16:19] <ali1234> then in six months it's upgrade time, but since the machine is no longer available, ubutu no longers runs on it
[16:19] <ali1234> so if i can only afford the cheapest machines i'm now trapped in a cycle of buying a new computer every 6 months
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> that's why you run LTS, so you don't have to upgrade for 5 years
[16:19] <ali1234> this is bad for obvious reasons
[16:20] <ali1234> LTS is not a solution, the software is extremely out of date
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> not yet..
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> also, backports will exist
[16:21] <ali1234> you may as well say to use puppy linux or something
[16:21] <AlanBell> so what is the solution ali1234
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> Make it work on 386-SX-16s
[16:21] <ali1234> this is a slippery slope and at the bottom there's a message that says "don't use ubuntu if your computer is over 1 year old"
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: but Ubuntu works fine on my 2-year old machine
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: and my 4-year old one
[16:22] <ali1234> AlanBell: the solution is to force all developers to use machines with VGA graphics and 256MB of memory
[16:23] <AlanBell> heh, no!
[16:23] <ali1234> someone always brings out the 386 strawman every time this issue is raised
[16:23] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: Where do you draw the line then?
[16:23] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: because you do have to draw a line somewhere
[16:24] <ali1234> you draw the line at anything purchasable up to 5 years ago
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> 386, etc. is exaggerated.. but Pentium 1 MMX-233? Pentium III-400?
[16:24] <ali1234> as opposed to anything purchasable today
[16:24] <ali1234> nope, none of those
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> So Pentium IV at least?
[16:24] <ali1234> yeah, sounds good
[16:25] <ali1234> basically, by supporting anything you could buy 5 years ago, you ensure that anything you buy new today will be supported by the latest ubuntu in 5 years
[16:25] <MartijnVdS> I have a P4 that works fine. Unity is 2D, but that's because of the ancient NVidia card
[16:25] <ali1234> i never said that it wouldn't
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> then what's the problem? :)
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> because that P4 is from '03 or '04 I think
[16:27] <ali1234> the problem is that "you can't buy those any more" is too often used as an excuse for poor programming
[16:27] <ali1234> and whenever i call anyone on it they trot out the 386 strawman
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> Find a better way to call them on it ;)
[16:27] <ali1234> and then refuse to commit to a reasonable middle ground
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> "But they're still around and common"?
[16:29] <ali1234> yes, hence the 5 year limit
[16:40] <diplo> afternoon all
[16:53] <ali1234> directhex: does bastion use that xna/gamepad library you were talking about packaging the other day?
[16:54] <Azelphur> wtf lol, amazon just emailed me they want me to submit a review for a gift card xD
[16:56] <ali1234> directhex: GamepadBridge.dll and MonoGame.Framework.Linux.dll, that's it isn't it?
[16:56] <ali1234> wonder why it doesn't work...
[18:42] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/145615/how-to-make-xbox-joypad-work-with-bastion
[18:42] <ali1234> i tried to debug this by building monogame from source, but bastion uses a modified version and because it is MS-PL licensed, they didn't release their modifications
[18:42] <ali1234> so i can't compile it with debugging to figure out why it doesn't work
[19:01] <penguin42> did someone say there was something like a cut down base ubuntu install available in 12.04 ?
[19:02] <penguin42> oh, tgz only not iso?
[19:18] <penguin42> right, time to reinstall one of my dads machines; last reinstalled in '03 with debian and upgraded ever since
[19:20] <palnj> hello people!
[19:22] <penguin42> Hi
[19:22] <popey> penguin42: ubuntu-core, yeah, no kernel in it either
[19:25] <penguin42> popey: Oh right, ok, I'll go with a desktop image and see what happens; it's getting MATEd after I get the base install on
[19:25] <popey> ⍨
[19:30] <Laney> g'day MATE
[19:31] <popey> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mele-1080p-android-2-3-internet-tv-set-top-box-w-wifi-optical-3-x-usb-hdmi-av-lan-sd-119913
[19:31] <popey> interesting device
[19:32] <directhex> ali1234, yes, it does
[19:32] <directhex> ali1234, bastion needs an opengl 2.1 capable 3d driver, so if you're on intel, it won't fly
[19:33] <palnj> AlanBell: I finally managed to get some stamps for that CD and the RAM :)
[19:33] <AlanBell> heh
[19:34] <AlanBell> you get 12.04 now
[19:34] <directhex> ali1234, monogame upstream has two opengl codepaths, one for opengl 1.1, and one for 2.0 - bastion's monogame isn't the same as the upstream 2.5 release, and also the 1.1 codepath isn't very well tested
[19:34]  * AlanBell reminds people of http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
[19:34] <directhex> since real computers can do 2.0
[19:34] <ali1234> directhex: what does opengl have to do with my joypad?
[19:35] <palnj> that's cool, i recently had to reflash my PC's HDD with Vista...
[19:35] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/145615/how-to-make-xbox-joypad-work-with-bastion
[19:35] <directhex> ali1234, i assumed you were having the usual issues people report w/ bastion
[19:36] <ali1234> no, it works perfectly except for joypad
[19:36] <directhex> i'll try with my pad
[19:36] <ali1234> basically, the game makes noises when i press buttons, but that's it
[19:37] <ali1234> it's like it recognises the pad but doesn't understand what any of the buttons are
[19:37] <palnj> So yeah, it should be in the post by tomorrow, AlanBell, and then I'll actually be able to use that piece of junk PC in the basement.
[19:38] <directhex> ali1234, okay, i can repro the issue
[19:38] <ali1234> what type of pad?
[19:38] <directhex> xbox 360 wired pad
[19:38] <ali1234> hmm
[19:39] <ali1234> if anything would work, that should
[19:41] <directhex> trying to force the issue
[19:41] <ali1234> monogame does detect joypad type by looking for "x-box" or "microsoft" in the name
[19:41] <ali1234> so perhaps it only affects x-box controllers, and the other code path works?
[19:41] <ali1234> even though yurs is 360 and mine is classic...
[19:48] <directhex> let me see if i can get a joypad test built against monogame
[19:49] <ali1234> i've already done that
[19:49] <ali1234> with monogame trunk my pad works, but bastion needs a modded monogame
[19:49] <ali1234> or are you gonna build against their modded one?
[19:50] <directhex> erk... i can do
[19:50] <directhex> didn't know you'd tested that far!
[19:51] <directhex> you might want to report a bug with supergiant then
[19:53] <penguin42> hmm it doesn't like that - won't get past the boot/ do you want to install/try etc screen - maybe try a xubuntu cd
[20:02] <penguin42> when I hit return on the 'install ubuntu' what does it actually do at that point - how much of the iso does it read into RAM?
[20:02] <directhex> penguin42, the alternate installer?
[20:02] <penguin42> no, main
[20:06]  * penguin42 has a nasty feeling that the problem is that it's reading the stick at USB1
[20:06] <penguin42> it's got to the desktop now - after 5min+
[20:12] <penguin42> I think the USB interface that will boot is the USB1 interface - the give away is if you unplug the USB stick after a few mins then you get errors about failed to do block reads
[20:18] <popey> penguin42: how much ram does the machine have?
[20:33] <penguin42> popey: 2GB
[20:33]  * popey shakes his head at yet another UEFI thread
[20:34] <penguin42> popey: I think it's that the standard installer can't cope with USB1.1; I'll file a bug after I get the damn thing installed - a) It doesn't give  any feedback in the section after hitting return on the 'install ubuntu...' and b) because USB1.1 is so slow lightdm times out
[20:34] <popey> why are you using a USB 1.1 port?
[20:35] <penguin42> popey: It won't boot off the USB2 addin card
[20:36] <popey> it doesnt have any native USB 2 ports?
[20:36] <penguin42> popey: I don't think so
[20:36] <popey> golly
[20:37] <penguin42> popey: Using Xubuntu installer DVD booted OK and started the installer OK, although the installer is crashing (with no logs) - but I think that's the xubuntu installer, I'm going to burn a Ubuntu DVD and try that
[20:37] <penguin42> popey: Machine is 2003 vintage; 2GHz Athlon, now has 2GB RAM (added over the years), a USB-2 addin card
[20:38] <popey> retro
[20:38] <popey> 2GHz in 2003 doesn't sound right
[20:38] <popey> I didnt get 2GHz until 4 years ago iirc
[20:38] <penguin42> popey: Yeh it does - nothing has happened for the last 10 years in clock speed
[20:39] <popey> mind you, thats a laptop
[20:42] <penguin42> popey: Actually, it's 1.8GHz, Athlon XP2200+
[20:45] <mattt> evening
[20:45] <popey> lo
[20:52] <mattt> popey: breaking anything interesting this evening?
[20:52] <mattt> :)
[20:53] <popey> heh, no
[21:10] <penguin42> sigh - I can see I'm going to have to debootstrap this one like the other machine
[21:11] <popey> penguin42: tried the mini iso?
[21:13] <penguin42> which mini iso?
[21:14] <penguin42> popey: This ? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
[21:14] <dogmatic69> anyone using the Ethernet over mains, can you recommend one and tell me if there is a limit to the number of them you can use
[21:14] <penguin42> popey: I'll give it a go after my (imminent) shower - thanks
[21:28] <popey> penguin42: sorry, yes, that one
[21:41]  * hamitron loves the mini cd
[21:54] <czajkowski> herrrro
[22:00] <czajkowski> popey: how are you getting to the tower tomorow?
[22:01] <AlanBell> ooh, best viewpoint in the city I should think
[22:04] <czajkowski> hope so
[22:04] <czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/102921374554385564572/posts/X2tNkxyBMyy nyomtastic
[22:05] <AlanBell> who got to lick the spoon?
[22:10] <mattt> what happens tomorrow, boat parade ?
[22:10] <AlanBell> yeah, flotilla and royal barge thing
[22:10] <AlanBell> canonical is on the 27th floor of Millbank tower and has a great view of the river
[22:11] <Seeker`> Oooh, Alien just started on C4
[22:12] <czajkowski> AlanBell: jon
[22:12] <mattt> sweet, will canonical be open to the public?
[22:12] <mattt> :P
[22:12] <AlanBell> http://www.techdrivein.com/2012/02/no-more-dodge-windows-in-unity-global.html looks like this
[22:13] <mattt> AlanBell: i want me a view like that at work!
[22:13] <AlanBell> czajkowski: not surprised :)
[22:15] <czajkowski> mattt: nope
[22:15] <czajkowski> AlanBell: he got the choclate one
[22:15] <czajkowski> didnt want the one which had choclate and marshmallows and bisuits in it
[22:21]  * AlanBell spots another bug with the annoying and badly implemented top bar shadow :(
[22:22] <popey> czajkowski: train
[22:23] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/Screenshot%20from%202012-06-02%2023:21:03.png it pops up *over* an impress slide when using the presenter console
[22:23] <AlanBell> naughty shadow
[22:24] <popey> i wish that shadow would die
[22:25] <popey> czajkowski: bought tickets a couple of days ago, 8 quid each for adults 1 quid for each kid
[22:25] <popey> super cheap
[22:26] <popey> also, wow, presenter mode works?
[22:26] <AlanBell> bug 956863
[22:26] <AlanBell> presenter mode works perfectly
[22:27] <AlanBell> as do the openGL transitions
[22:27] <AlanBell> and they both might be in by default in quantal
[22:27] <popey> nice
[22:27] <popey> oh, not in 12.04?
[22:27] <AlanBell> not on the CD
[22:28] <AlanBell> !info libreoffice-presenter-console
[22:28]  * popey installs
[22:28] <AlanBell> !info libreoffice-ogltrans
[22:29] <AlanBell> they are dropping a bunch of template stuff and giving back space to the CD, I suggested they give with one hand and take with the other :)
[22:29] <AlanBell> still giving back a decent net reduction in space
[22:30] <penguin42> popey: hmm, there don't seem to be sums or signed sums in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/  which is where that mini.iso is
[22:30] <popey> penguin42: they should be on that wiki page
[22:30] <popey> yes, they are
[22:30] <penguin42> popey: Ah yes, it has the MD5 and SHA, and the page is on an https site so I guess that's OK
[22:31] <penguin42> ish
[22:31] <AlanBell> night all o/
[22:31] <penguin42> nn AB
[22:31] <popey> nn
[22:33] <czajkowski> popey: cool into vauxhaull station or waterloo ?
[22:33] <popey> both
[22:33] <popey> going to waterloo and changing to vauxhall
[22:34] <popey> then walk over bridge
[22:34] <czajkowski> nods
[22:35] <popey> hope the kids dont get bored ⍨
[22:35] <czajkowski> think we may end doing similar
[22:35] <czajkowski> westminster bridge is open for us
[22:35] <czajkowski> sorry tube to westminster and then walk
[22:36] <czajkowski> popey: they wont and I'm sure others will have kids also
[22:36] <czajkowski> I made cake
[22:36] <czajkowski> not sure how its gonna turn out
[22:36] <penguin42> cake is good
[22:37] <penguin42> the Times (yesterday?) had a recipie/design for a cake that assembled into a union jack
[22:37] <popey> hah
[22:37] <directhex> union flag
[22:37] <penguin42> carefully cut slices of raspberry and blueberry sponge
[22:38] <directhex> and hang from the jackstaff of your ship?
[22:39]  * penguin42 doesn't have a ship, and it might be a bit large for that (if I made it)
[22:39] <popey> bet its going to rain loads of cloud cover will be low so we see nothing ☺
[22:39] <popey> nvm, cake and stuff
[22:40] <Laney> partay
[22:42] <czajkowski> popey: aye does loook pretty wet up here alright
[22:42] <czajkowski> but so muggy
[22:46] <daftykins> what are you lot up to D:
[22:51] <popey> daftykins: canonical are having a party at Millbank tower tomorrow
[22:51] <popey> to say goodbye because we're moving out
[22:51] <popey> and it turns out there's some royal party going on, on the thames, on the same day
[22:52] <directhex> i'm busy not going to bed
[22:52] <directhex> this is fine, because new fathers do not need sleep
[22:52] <popey> directhex: when's it due?
[22:52] <daftykins> popey: ah interesting
[22:52] <daftykins> heh 'it'
[22:53] <directhex> popey, end of the month. however, arrival was on wednesday.
[22:53] <popey> oh, congrats
[22:53] <popey> what flavour was the derivative?
[22:53] <czajkowski> ROFLOL
[22:55] <Seeker`> mmmm, mint
[22:56] <dogmatic69> When converting an image from svg to png with `convert` is it possible to scale the svg before the conversion?
[22:57] <dogmatic69> I an using `convert file.svg -resize 1000 file.png` for example, but if the .svg is saved as 100px it is very grainy.
[22:58] <dogmatic69> would prefer to not open and edit (300+) svg files
[23:04] <penguin42> popey: Yeh! Debian installer wins
[23:27] <directhex> popey, all the data has been on twitter. you must not follow me on twitter. SHAMEFUL
[23:40] <dogmatic69> imagemagic not doing it, inkscape works well though