[08:13] <Orpheon> I've just installed ubuntu studio and everything around it now, and I'm having some trouble finding out how to do stuff
[08:13] <Orpheon> does anyone here know LMMS?
[08:13] <Orpheon> that's sort of what I'm trying to get
[08:14] <Orpheon> I haven't found out yet how I can sequence midi notes on separate instruments and actually hook them up with something
[08:14] <Orpheon> any help?
[08:14] <ailo> Orpheon: Are you using qjackctl?
[08:15] <ailo> I don't know lmms very well
[08:16] <Orpheon> well, I've mostly used it now to start and stop JACK
[08:17] <Orpheon> patchage seems better for connecting
[08:18] <ailo> Orpheon: Well, there are two types of midi
[08:18] <ailo> jack midi, and alsa midi
[08:18] <ailo> Most applications support alsa midi
[08:19] <Orpheon> ok
[08:19] <Orpheon> is there a way to connect them?
[08:19] <Orpheon> because Yoshimi apparently uses a different MIDI than everything else
[08:19] <ailo> Yeah. Let me see about patchage (need to install it)
[08:22] <Orpheon> here's a screenshot of it if it helps:
[08:22] <Orpheon> http://snag.gy/bl7SV.jpg
[08:23] <ailo> Orpheon: Alright. You have a midi keyboard there, right?
[08:23] <Orpheon> yes
[08:23] <Orpheon> I mostly want a sequencer though
[08:23] <ailo> Just click the mouse on it and drag it to Yoshimi (or did you try that already)
[08:23] <Orpheon> yes
[08:23] <Orpheon> they don't connect
[08:24] <ailo> I see. It's red
[08:24] <ailo> Could be it's jack midi
[08:24] <ailo> Let me see
[08:24] <Orpheon> yes
[08:24] <Orpheon> wait
[08:24] <Orpheon> I tried linking system capture 2 to yoshimi
[08:24] <Orpheon> that worked
[08:24] <Orpheon> strangely
[08:24] <Orpheon> and now, my keyboard triggers yoshimi
[08:25] <ailo> Orpheon: Yeah. The red midi seems to be Jack midi
[08:31] <ailo> Orpheon: I think you have things set up right. To confirm, open a new application. Something like Hexter
[08:32] <Orpheon> a hexter window appears
[08:32] <Orpheon> and a thing in the patchage screen
[08:32] <ailo> Orpheon: You should see a new "midi_capture_2"
[08:32] <Orpheon> I don't think I misconfigured anything
[08:32] <Orpheon> I'm just wondering how I could set up a good environment
[08:32] <Orpheon> where?
[08:33] <ailo> Orpheon: Did you open Hexter
[08:34] <ailo> hmm, actually no
[08:35] <ailo> Well, I don't often dabble with this. It's kind of easier to understand what is jack midi and alsa midi using qjackctl
[08:35] <ailo> Orpheon: If you go to Qjackctl -> Connect -> MIDI, you'll find all jack midi software there
[08:36] <ailo> And in Qjackctl -> Connect -> Alsa, alsa midi
[08:36] <ailo> There's a bridge you can use between alsa and jack midi called a2jmidi
[08:36] <Orpheon> ok
[08:37] <Orpheon> not finding it though
[08:37] <ailo> Orpheon: In a terminal, type a2jmidid
[08:37] <Orpheon> not install
[08:38] <Orpheon> will install
[08:38] <ailo> Ok
[08:38] <Orpheon> a2jmidid is already the newest version
[08:38] <Orpheon> wat
[08:38] <Orpheon> oh
[08:38] <Orpheon> I mistyped it before
[08:38] <Orpheon> dum de dum
[08:38] <ailo> After you start it, have a look in patchage
[08:38] <ailo> More red stuff should appear
[08:39] <ailo> It makes alsa midi in/outlets be exposed to jack midi
[08:39] <Orpheon> yeah
[08:39] <Orpheon> lots more red now
[08:39] <ailo> It doesn't change alsa midi devices into jack midi. Only makes them connectable
[08:39] <ailo> Jack midi is better peforming
[08:40] <ailo> Anyway, good luck with the rest. I'm having breakfest now :)
[08:40] <Orpheon> ok
[08:40] <Orpheon> thank you
[08:40] <Orpheon> have fun with breakfast :P
[13:50] <mighty_aboba> ailo, hi
[13:51] <mighty_aboba> what must I do with jack and my usb card for test?
[13:51] <mighty_aboba> record or what?
[13:51] <mighty_aboba> how must I test it?
[13:52] <len-dt> mighty_aboba, test for what? To see if it works?
[13:54] <len-dt> mighty_aboba, one of the things I would do right of is open the pulse mixer (pavucontrol) and turn off the internal audio IF.
[13:55] <mighty_aboba> no no
[13:55] <mighty_aboba> all working fine
[13:55] <mighty_aboba> one sec
[13:58] <mighty_aboba> He told me about testing my card for include (or not) it to the some list of recommended cards
[13:59] <len-dt> Ah, great! we need that. Is it USB2 then?
[13:59] <mighty_aboba> Yes, E-mu 0404 usb
[13:59] <mighty_aboba> How could I test it?
[14:00] <mighty_aboba> I not completely understand what I must to do :)
[14:00] <len-dt> Jack should see all the inputs and outputs.
[14:01] <len-dt> Actually I guess that would be ALSA but it is easier to see what alsa can see with jack
[14:02] <len-dt> Can jack set it to 192k or at least 96K?
[14:02] <len-dt> verify that alsa can get 24bit use... I'm not sure how to check this.
[14:05] <len-dt> It looks like it shold have two inputs and two
[14:05] <len-dt> oops
[14:06] <len-dt> mighty_aboba, it looks like you should have two in puts and two outputs
[14:06] <len-dt> but I think you may see 4 with the spdif showing up as the other two.
[14:09] <mighty_aboba> yes, it shows all inputs and outputs
[14:09] <mighty_aboba> and analog inputs and outputs work fine
[14:09] <len-dt> Can you set the sample rate to 96k?
[14:10] <mighty_aboba> I can't test the digital output and midi in/outs  because i don't use it and i not have the cables for this
[14:11] <len-dt> That is ok, they show up in qjackctl's windows that is good.
[14:12] <mighty_aboba> Now i will be trying to set 96k
[14:14] <mighty_aboba> Yes it works fine, but my CPU is fully loaded, because my project files in 44k
[14:14] <mighty_aboba> So many glitches
[14:14] <mighty_aboba> but no xruns:)
[14:15] <len-dt> That sounds pretty well supported then.
[14:15] <mighty_aboba> by the way 512 samples
[14:15] <mighty_aboba> 5.3 ms latency
[14:15] <mighty_aboba> but my project is very hard
[14:15] <mighty_aboba> :D
[14:16] <len-dt> I will make sure ailo reads this when I see him around.
[14:16] <mighty_aboba> 64 VST, one of them is vsti drums :D
[14:16]  * len-dt means active
[14:16] <len-dt> That sounds like some stuff I need to play with.
[14:17] <mighty_aboba> it is all in reaper
[14:17] <mighty_aboba> under wine
[14:17] <mighty_aboba> with wineasio
[14:17] <len-dt> We don't ship any of the VST stuff right now so I haven't tested or played with it.
[14:18] <len-dt> I have installed some of it, but to be honest, I am not a keyboard player.
[14:18] <len-dt> So midi stuff is not the easiest thing for me to do.
[14:19] <mighty_aboba> My way is to do this in tab editors and export to midi
[14:19] <mighty_aboba> It is about drums
[14:19] <len-dt> I have a small(cheap) set of pads for that.
[14:19] <mighty_aboba> :)
[14:20] <len-dt> It has 8 pads and a pedal
[14:20] <mighty_aboba> set of pads is real thing?
[14:20] <mighty_aboba> I mean
[14:20] <len-dt> Yamaha dd11
[14:20] <mighty_aboba> Is it not virtual set
[14:20] <mighty_aboba> ?
[14:20] <mighty_aboba> Cool
[14:20] <mighty_aboba> :)
[14:20] <len-dt> The pads are all together not like a kit
[14:21] <len-dt> The pads don't seem to line up well with standard midi kits so I have to play with things to make it work.
[14:22] <len-dt> Better than nothing though.
[14:35] <mighty_aboba> Anyway it is more interesting then input the digits to tab editor:)
[14:35] <mighty_aboba> that*
[14:36] <mighty_aboba> Oh, my English is not well, haha
[15:21] <ailo> mighty_aboba: Nice. But, if you could just try turning latency down much more. To 32 or 64 samples, to see if you can get it to work. Probably the wineasio stuff will not be able to handle that, so try just using qjackctl and ardour
[15:25] <mighty_aboba> what kind of operation must i to do?
[15:26] <mighty_aboba> record or just playing
[15:26] <mighty_aboba> I don't have a projects in ardour
[15:29] <mighty_aboba>  and
[15:31] <mighty_aboba>  Do "To 32 or 64 samples" means that I will not can to start jack? or I will not can to do something without xruns?
[15:49] <ailo> mighty_aboba: You don't really need to do much. If you get xruns, you will notice pretty quickly
[15:50] <ailo> I think just playing some file, and maybe adding a bit of FX is enough
[15:51] <len-dt> May have to turn off the internal card in pavucontrol as well
[15:51] <len-dt> I noticed with my setup that the PA-jack bridge seems to lock jack the min latency of the internal card.
[15:51] <ailo> len-dt: That has absolutely no effect for me
[15:51] <ailo> On any of my machines
[15:52] <ailo> I can run my M-Audio at 16 frames/period
[15:53] <ailo> I do think the PA bridge is likely to cause trouble though
[15:53] <len-dt> I can go 32, but I don't know if my old machine would go lower...
[15:54] <ailo> My point is that I don't need to turn off my internal to do that
[15:55] <ailo> My internal can't even start at 16
[15:55] <len-dt> The internal on my netbook min is 128...
[15:56] <len-dt> It doesn't matter if PA is running or not.
[15:56] <ailo> What I don't see is why PA would have any effect on jack settings for the audio device
[15:57] <len-dt> Not PA, but the bridge.
[15:58] <len-dt> The bridge has to be synced to jack to work and PA has to sync to that. I guess PA syncs all the cards it uses.
[16:00] <ailo> len-dt: I can start M-Audio at 16 frames/period, with the jack bridge
[16:01] <ailo> I get xruns, but it works
[16:01] <ailo> Doesn't matter what I set PA to
[16:02] <ailo> I can even set it to use my HDMI output, which I can't at all start using jack
[16:03] <len-dt> I can only start my m-audio down to 32. But this system is 8 to 10 years old.
[16:04] <len-dt> It could be a MB issue
[16:04] <ailo> 32 is pretty good for older computers
[16:05] <len-dt> Ya, I also have a2jmidid setup to start when jack does.
[16:06] <len-dt> I don't know how that affects things. My midi port is an ensoniq game port
[16:07] <mighty_aboba> Is the count of periods important?
[16:07] <len-dt> Very much for live use such a guitar effects or live softsynth use
[16:08] <mighty_aboba> Okey
[16:08] <len-dt> Recording can use higher latency so long as you have hardware monitor.
[16:08] <ailo> mighty_aboba: Or did you mean Periods/Buffer?
[16:08] <mighty_aboba> yes
[16:09] <mighty_aboba> Periods
[16:09] <ailo> There's also Frames/Period
[16:09] <len-dt> mighty_aboba, your box has direct monitoring. (good)
[16:10] <ailo> If Frames/Period is 64, and Periods/Frames is 2, that is like 2x64
[16:10] <mighty_aboba> I set ( in past, I dont't remember how it is write) 2 periods *32 samples
[16:10] <ailo> Sorry, the second should be Periods/Buffer
[16:10] <ailo> That's pretty good. With this usb device?
[16:11] <mighty_aboba> Yes, It is with usb
[16:11] <mighty_aboba> many xruns
[16:13] <mighty_aboba> 2*64
[16:13] <mighty_aboba> it is better with 2*64
[16:13] <mighty_aboba> I have xruns
[16:13] <mighty_aboba> but a lot of
[16:13] <mighty_aboba> or not
[16:14] <ailo> mighty_aboba: Some say having Periods/Buffer at 3 is best for USB
[16:14] <ailo> If you can do 3 * 64, without xruns, I'd say it's very good
[16:14] <mighty_aboba> not "a lot of"
[16:14] <mighty_aboba> I meant "few"
[16:15] <mighty_aboba> Haha, my English is worst :D
[16:15] <ailo> Hardly anyone is English speaking here :)
[16:23] <mighty_aboba> Okey, I set 3*64
[16:23] <mighty_aboba> 1 xrun with ardour
[16:24] <mighty_aboba> One wav with 10-band eq
[16:25] <mighty_aboba> now
[16:25] <mighty_aboba> 1 wav
[16:25] <len-dt> mighty_aboba, xruns that happen when a jack application starts up don't count.
[16:25] <mighty_aboba> 1 C* Cabinet fx
[16:25] <mighty_aboba> no xruns
[16:27] <mighty_aboba> one more xrun
[16:27] <mighty_aboba> when i change fx
[16:27] <mighty_aboba> or change parameter
[16:27] <len-dt> is it the kind of change you would make while doing audio?
[16:28] <mighty_aboba> is it enough?
[16:28] <mighty_aboba> what means "doing audio"?
[16:29] <len-dt> There is no enough... I think ailo is just trying to find limits.
[16:29] <len-dt> Doing audio means the sound is in use. Recording or playback for example.
[16:29] <mighty_aboba> yes
[16:29] <mighty_aboba> playback
[16:30] <len-dt> Ya, I was thinking changing an eq param fight be something one would do "on the fly" Still recording would be done at a higher latency anyway.
[16:30] <ailo> mighty_aboba: Amount of audio files do not cause much trouble. High amount of heavy fx can do that, but if you have a stable setting, you should not get xruns easily
[16:31] <ailo> I mean, if you keep quite a low setting, and have no xruns, you should be able to push it and still have no xruns
[16:32] <ailo> When you do get a few xruns, it is most likely cause by something else than audio
[16:32] <ailo> Like when you move the mouse
[16:32] <ailo> This is, IF you have a low latency setting
[16:32] <ailo> And that just means, your system is not able to run at such a low latency setting
[16:33] <ailo> Some applications need higher latency setting than others too. This is my experience
[16:33] <mighty_aboba> 22:26:43.357 XRUN callback (1).
[16:33] <mighty_aboba> 22:27:37.001 XRUN callback (2).
[16:33] <mighty_aboba> 22:32:48.254 XRUN callback (3).
[16:34] <mighty_aboba> for this time
[16:34] <mighty_aboba> During this time
[16:35] <mighty_aboba> My settings are 2*512 usually
[16:40] <ailo> mighty_aboba: It's not bad. Even 128 is quite usable for live use
[16:42] <mighty_aboba> Live... is it like somebody play with midi-keyboard?
[16:43] <mighty_aboba> Simple
[16:43] <mighty_aboba> I just make mixing
[16:43] <mighty_aboba> and record guitar
[16:43] <mighty_aboba> or bass
[16:45] <ailo> mighty_aboba: Yeah. If you play a soft synth, or samples with a midi keyboard you need low latency
[16:45] <mighty_aboba> aahhh
[16:45] <ailo> mighty_aboba: Also, if you use virtual amps, like rakarrack, or guitarix
[16:46] <mighty_aboba> By the way
[16:47] <mighty_aboba> I used rakarrack with 128*2
[16:47] <mighty_aboba> All was fine
[16:52] <ailo> mighty_aboba: Personally, I find 128 to be a bit too high. But this depends on the computer too
[16:53] <ailo> For me, it's just at the limit