[02:10] <ScottK> Riddell: Did you see the nice polite reply yofel got from the release guy you don't want criticized.  Sure, it's a thankless job, but he seems hostile to most any kind of feedback.
[02:54] <afiestas> ScottK:  :D
[02:54] <afiestas> people who does that kind of job are usually the happiear on earth :p
[03:22] <ScottK> afiestas: I find it very demotivating when the new KDE release guy decides, without discussion, to 'cancel' a KDE beta based on something needing to be packaged from a git snapshot.
[03:22] <ScottK> In our case the pointless delay cost us Kubuntu Quantal Alpha 1.
[03:37] <JontheEchidna> "Maybe in the future threatening to cancel the release will cause people moving house to drop everything and do volunteer FOSS stuff"
[03:39] <ScottK> Maybe.
[06:33] <eagles0513875> morning all :) 
[06:34] <eagles0513875> hey guys I'm trying to assign https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-widget-menubar/+bug/998630 to the kubuntu-dev  team, would i need to be a member to be able to assign the bug to kubuntu-dev's
[08:27] <Riddell> apachelogger: do you have a date to hold the kubuntu council vote?  I'm wondering about a meeting before it to do the constitution and UDS review
[09:45]  * Riddell adds kubuntu-dev-server script to kubuntu-dev-tools for setting up an ec2 instance
[09:49] <Stecchino> If anyone from Blue systems is in: both contact@blue-systems.com as contact@blue-systems.de fails
[09:50] <Riddell> Stecchino: passed on
[09:57] <Mamarok> his uncle is president of Schalke 04 football club
[09:59] <Riddell> nuff stalking
[10:00] <Mamarok> sorry :(
[10:03] <Ezim> schalke is a good football club :)
[10:03] <Ezim> gelsenkirchen
[10:33] <Riddell> Stecchino: try now
[10:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: sunday IIRC
[10:51] <apachelogger> that is sunday to sunday
[10:52] <Riddell> hum so might be able to hold one before then
[10:55] <apachelogger> if it is really necessary....
[10:55] <apachelogger> mind that the parting members do only time out on june 21
[10:57] <Riddell> Kubuntu meeting scheduling http://www.doodle.com/xxxd4x2mkpp6hifr
[11:01] <jussi> doodled
[11:01] <apachelogger> ah right
[11:02] <apachelogger> Riddell: we need to do the UDS stuff anyway, that right now blocks our task tracking
[11:02] <apachelogger> only approved specs get in, everything else is already set up
[11:08]  * Mamarok wonders if the kubuntu PPA is still working, or are there simply no precise updates available?
[11:09] <Riddell> debfx is onto the 4.8.4 update
[11:10] <Mamarok> oh, cool
[11:10] <Mamarok> any work in progress for 4.9 beta packages?
[11:10] <Mamarok> yofel_: ^ ?
[11:11] <Riddell> 4.8.4 is still in ninjas
[11:11] <Riddell> 4.8.80 is also still in ninjas
[11:11] <Riddell> I've been faffing with ec2 stuff
[11:11] <Mamarok> OK, nice
[11:11] <apachelogger> .4 is done IIRC
[11:12] <apachelogger> at least debfx said something like that yesterday
[11:12] <apachelogger> or I am imagining things ^^
[11:12] <Mamarok> I prefer packages rather than building the beta myself, and we have the beta testing this weekend in #kde-quality
[11:12]  * apachelogger kindly ponts out that the merge process as part of a kde release is not documented and pokes yofel_
[11:13] <Ezim> apachelogger, do you know if pulseaudio+kwin cracky/choopy sound after playin around is fixed with 4.8.4?
[11:13] <apachelogger> Riddell: oh, btw
[11:13] <apachelogger> kubotu: buildstatus amarok
[11:13] <kubotu> amarok:
[11:13] <kubotu>  powerpc Successfully built
[11:13] <kubotu>  i386 Successfully built
[11:13] <kubotu>  armhf Successfully built
[11:13] <kubotu>  armel Successfully built...
[11:13] <apachelogger> Ezim: I would not know
[11:14] <Ezim> apachelogger, okey.. np
[11:14] <apachelogger> Ezim: did you actually identify the misbehaving component yet?
[11:14] <Riddell> apachelogger: ooh more irc goodness
[11:15] <Ezim> apachelogger, no I did not really.. I tried different phonon backend
[11:15] <Ezim> did not help.
[11:16] <Ezim> I also tried pulseaudio 2 from repo, did not help.
[11:16] <apachelogger> Ezim: then how could I possibly tell you :P
[11:16] <Ezim> I tried veromix did not help.
[11:16] <apachelogger> Ezim: I'd talk to coling in #kde-multimedia
[11:16] <apachelogger> or drop him a mail colin@mageia.org
[11:16] <Ezim> to "fix" the sound weirdness I did use alsa, but that was not really my purpose.
[11:17] <Ezim> apachelogger, okey... it works just fine under mageia/fedora/debian
[11:18] <Ezim> I am testing zevenos neptune (debian based distro) it works also there...
[11:18] <Ezim> so I feel it is something in kubuntu that is broken
[11:22] <apachelogger> Riddell: are holidays in the UK?
[11:22] <apachelogger> Ezim: instead of testing you could talk to colin
[11:23] <Riddell> apachelogger: today?  it's a bank holiday for most people in the UK yes
[11:23] <apachelogger> ah
[11:24] <Ezim> apachelogger, will do that later on... hard to do that when I do not have kubuntu installed at the moment..
[11:24] <apachelogger> epxlains why no one wants to talk to me about launchpad ^^
[11:30] <yofel_> apachelogger: it would be good if buildstatus could tell the version. I guess that's amarok from quantal, but that's ambigous when someone does an upload
[11:30] <yofel> as for merge process, a proper documentation would require the debian team to have the packaging in a consistent state, which isn't the case usually
[11:31] <yofel> this time we merged from git, and even there only a few things as they're really lagging behind
[11:31] <apachelogger> yofel: yeah, thought the same thing
[11:31] <apachelogger> yofel: also it should print one line
[11:31] <apachelogger> don't quite know how to do that in python tho
[11:32] <apachelogger> in ruby as in C print does not linebreak, no clue why it does in buildstatus
[11:32] <yofel> well, as long as it's only for a single package a few lines are tolerable
[11:37] <apachelogger> nah
[11:37] <apachelogger> what if you query two packages
[11:37] <apachelogger> or 3 :P
[11:37] <apachelogger> multiline output is always evil
[11:37] <apachelogger> except in a party case
[11:37] <yofel> well, ok
[11:38] <apachelogger> or when apachelogger uses multiline instead of punctuation :P
[11:43] <CIA-44> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/smokegen] Philip Muškovac * 33 * debian/changelog new upstream tarball
[11:43] <apachelogger> kubotu: newversion 1 2
[11:43] <kubotu> Package 1 doesn't exist yet!
[11:49] <CIA-44> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/smokeqt] Philip Muškovac * 27 * debian/changelog new upstream tarball
[11:50] <apachelogger> kubotu: newpackage plasma-widget-redshift 0.4 http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Redshift+plasmoid?content=148737
[11:51] <apachelogger> I broke it \o/
[11:51] <apachelogger> User does not have sufficient permissions to edit the bug task importance.
[11:51] <yofel> it crashes on that?
[11:51] <yofel> it didn't in the past...
[11:51] <apachelogger> no
[11:52] <apachelogger> but it does not output the url
[11:52] <apachelogger> oh
[11:52] <yofel> uh, that can only happen when it crashes...
[11:52] <apachelogger> throws httperror it seems
[11:52] <yofel> -.-
[11:52] <apachelogger> http://paste.kde.org/493382/
[11:54] <apachelogger> yofel: 
[11:54] <yofel> sec
[11:55] <apachelogger> http://paste.kde.org/493394/
[11:55] <apachelogger> yofel: ^
[11:55] <yofel> yeah, something like that
[11:55] <apachelogger> yofel: oh, I think [description] should be additional to the standard message btw
[11:56] <apachelogger> defaultDescription << "\n\n" << description
[11:56] <apachelogger> or something
[11:56] <yofel> hm, I wanted to leave it to the user, but indeed makes sense to append it for the bot...
[11:57] <apachelogger> even for the user it makes sense
[11:58] <apachelogger> the defautl info is always useful
[11:58] <apachelogger> I would not want to write that manually and then add more stuff ^^
[11:58] <yofel> sure, and it's less code actually
[12:00]  * apachelogger tries to get the bot in bugcontrol
[12:01] <apachelogger> yofel: I wonder... can't one set the importance at report time?
[12:01] <apachelogger> or is that just for bugcontrol members
[12:01] <yofel> bugcontrol
[12:02] <apachelogger> k
[12:03] <apachelogger> oh actually
[12:03] <apachelogger> staging is up again
[12:03] <yofel> done
[12:04] <yofel> yeah, just a tad slow
[12:04] <yofel> as always
[12:04] <apachelogger> yofel: could you move the code to bzr or something?
[12:04]  * apachelogger currently needs to manually cherry pick
[12:04] <yofel> sure, want in k-d-t?
[12:04] <apachelogger> yah, should be fine
[12:06] <yofel> added
[12:08] <apachelogger> kubotu: newpackage foo 1.0
[12:08] <kubotu> Package foo already exists!
[12:08] <apachelogger> ah
[12:08] <apachelogger> kubotu: newpackage foobar 1.0
[12:08] <yofel> o.O
[12:08] <kubotu> Package foobar already exists!
[12:08] <apachelogger> kubotu: newpackage foobarmybooty 1.0
[12:08] <kubotu> https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/bugs/971243
[12:09] <apachelogger> tsimpson: ^ should ignore bugs.staging
[12:12] <CIA-44> [kubuntu-dev-tools] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20120605121203-xh443n62lp32cjb7 * (5 files in 3 dirs) * Add pull-ninjas-source to download packages from the kubuntu-ninjas PPA. * Add newpackage script to file packaging bugs on LP
[12:14] <CIA-44> [kubuntu-dev-tools] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20120605121314-o9qefpsgkdsaz7ng * bin/newpackage explicitly specify argument names for login and make cred path usable explict specifying allows changing only the first name to switch from desktop wide cred sharing to per-app
[12:15] <yofel> ooops, yeah
[12:16] <yofel> apachelogger: = missing in line 60?
[12:17] <CIA-44> [kubuntu-dev-tools] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20120605121708-j7vzk7nafk5c367h * bin/newpackage add missing =
[12:17] <yofel> and see if ~ works, IIRC you need to wrap that in os.path.expanduser(...)
[12:18] <yofel> unless they changed that
[12:18] <apachelogger> yah
[12:18] <apachelogger> still integrating
[12:18] <yofel> actually, see kopypackages, there I did it properly
[12:19] <apachelogger> I do't get the code there
[12:19] <apachelogger> plz fix :P
[12:20] <apachelogger> actually
[12:20] <yofel> lol, that's just pythonized mkdir -p 
[12:20] <apachelogger> all our scripts should have an envrionment override for that crap TBH
[12:20] <yofel> oh, good idea
[12:20] <apachelogger> then I do not need to carry a diff
[12:21] <apachelogger> also for application_name vs. consumer_name
[12:21] <yofel> which probably *should* be in a lib
[12:21] <apachelogger> kubotu: rescan
[12:21] <kubotu> saving ...
[12:21] <kubotu> rescanning ...
[12:21] <kubotu> done. 10 core modules loaded; 58 plugins loaded; 31 plugins ignored; 1 plugin failed to load
[12:22] <apachelogger> kubotu: newpackage foobar1234 1
[12:23] <apachelogger> bug!
[12:23] <apachelogger> kubotu: rescan
[12:23] <kubotu> saving ...
[12:23] <kubotu> rescanning ...
[12:23] <kubotu> done. 10 core modules loaded; 58 plugins loaded; 31 plugins ignored; 1 plugin failed to load
[12:23] <apachelogger> kubotu: newpackage foobar1234 1
[12:23] <apachelogger> bug!
[12:24] <apachelogger> kubotu: newpackage foobar1234 1
[12:25] <apachelogger> hm
[12:27] <CIA-44> [lp:kubuntu-dev-tools] Philip Muškovac * 143 * bin/newpackage cleanup
[12:29] <apachelogger> yofel: <kubotu> HTTPError: Package foobar not published in Ubuntu
[12:29] <apachelogger> httperror?
[12:30] <yofel> weird
[12:30] <apachelogger> stating that is
[12:30] <yofel> ah, *that*'s what I was originally catching to see if a package was published
[12:30] <yofel> now to find out why source isn't None anymore
[12:31] <apachelogger> bot switched to production again, all should be good now \o/
[12:31] <apachelogger> actually
[12:31] <apachelogger> just had an idea
[12:33] <CIA-44> [lp:kubuntu-dev-tools] Philip Muškovac * 144 * bin/newpackage make sure the folder for the credentials file exists before using it
[12:34] <Stecchino> Speaking about betas. Is anyone packaging Amarok 2.6 beta 1 yet?
[12:34] <Stecchino> http://download.kde.org/unstable/amarok/2.5.90/src/amarok-2.5.90.tar.bz2.mirrorlist
[12:34] <Stecchino> simple s/2.4.90/2.5.90/g should work
[12:35] <Stecchino> and if the nl-i18n patch was used before: only needed for kdelibs <= 4.7.
[12:35] <Stecchino> *4.7.3
[12:38] <yofel> hm, smoke still fails to build with new soprano -.-
[12:39] <apachelogger> https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/+bug/971249
[12:39] <Riddell> bug 1008645
[12:39] <Riddell> Stecchino: still on the todo list
[12:39] <apachelogger> Stecchino, Riddell: will get on it in a bit
[12:40] <Stecchino> ok
[12:40] <apachelogger> kubotu: rescan
[12:40] <kubotu> saving ...
[12:40] <kubotu> rescanning ...
[12:41] <kubotu> done. 10 core modules loaded; 58 plugins loaded; 31 plugins ignored; 1 plugin failed to load
[12:41] <apachelogger> Stecchino: any objections to switching releaseme to xz?
[12:41] <Stecchino> apachelogger: xz?
[12:41] <apachelogger> the compression tool
[12:41] <apachelogger> rather than bzip2
[12:42] <apachelogger> xz being better at compressing and faster at decompressing
[12:42] <apachelogger> already used for kde sc releases
[12:42] <Stecchino> apachelogger: does compression matter of convenience?
[12:42] <Stecchino> if xz comes standard I don't care
[12:42] <apachelogger> well, the tars are smaller = less traffic
[12:43] <apachelogger> Stecchino: has been in distros for 3 years at least
[12:43] <Stecchino> then go ahead
[12:43] <apachelogger> kk
[12:43] <Riddell> it's what KDE SC uses
[12:43] <Stecchino> but as far as releaseme feature requests go. I want to to be git oriented
[12:43]  * apachelogger switches newpackage to production
[12:43] <Stecchino> to confusing with the docs talking mostely about svn
[12:43] <apachelogger> Stecchino: I have a rewrite for that
[12:44] <apachelogger> Stecchino: docs are about translations of the same :P
[12:44] <apachelogger> which are in svn
[12:44] <Stecchino> yeah, but the --help does not mentions svn is about docs
[12:44] <Stecchino> we should not have to know how translations are set up basically
[12:45] <Stecchino> it's to complicated and subject to change anyway
[12:45] <apachelogger> I am sure the i18n leaders disagree on the not having to know anything about it :P
[12:45] <Stecchino> pfeh
[12:46] <Stecchino> I write strings in US-en and wrap them in approriate i18n*()s that is as much as I need to know about i18n
[12:46] <apachelogger> Stecchino: as I said, i18n will disagree
[12:47]  * apachelogger also disagrees but does not care enoguh to argue :P
[12:47] <Stecchino> they are also the ones who made is so complicated and badly documented, so I guess there would be more dissagreements
[12:48]  * apachelogger actuallyw onders how gnome does it
[12:48] <Riddell> in gnome the translations are in the source archive
[12:48] <Riddell> not separated
[12:48] <apachelogger> ok, so... update testing then amarok packaging
[12:48] <apachelogger> Riddell: and we don't want that?
[12:48] <apachelogger> although I can see the management advantage in not having that
[12:49] <Riddell> apachelogger: it means the translators have to go searching for them rather than the programmers.  geneerally programmers are better at searching repositories than translators
[12:49] <apachelogger> particularly since due to the SC the apps are actually not as independent as they are in gnome
[12:50] <apachelogger> Riddell: well, they would always be kde:foo/po/
[12:50] <apachelogger> so I do believe git being a pain in the bum is the greater barrier there
[12:52] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, I still think we should have used a bootsplash without logo, would look better
[12:53] <yofel> people think in pictures, so I believe most people do like the logo on that
[12:53] <apachelogger> from a branding perspective
[12:53] <apachelogger> from an artistic pov it would look better with just the dots
[12:54] <yofel> from an artisitic pov it would look better if you would use the gear parts as dots
[12:54] <apachelogger> no it wouldn't
[12:55] <apachelogger> it's because of the background
[12:55] <apachelogger> it lacks drama
[12:55] <apachelogger> so if you put blinking gears on it it will look like crap
[12:55] <yofel> well, if you remove the logo, at least make the dots larger. On a high resolution it looks crappy with just the dots
[12:55] <apachelogger> yah
[12:56] <apachelogger> tho I have only ever seen a highres boot myself ^^
[12:56] <Riddell> we do get complaints about not having enough branding quite a bit
[12:56] <Riddell> but it's so unimportant to me
[12:57] <apachelogger> well, what can you brand without redoing the entire artwork set?
[12:58] <apachelogger> right now you could only change the color of the wallpaper as putting a logo on there would not work at all (due to the stripes)
[12:59] <Riddell> yeah I'm thinking about stuff like the K menu
[12:59] <apachelogger> then you could swap the start-here-kde icon for start-here-kubuntu 
[12:59] <Riddell> anyway, I don't want that
[12:59] <apachelogger> +
[12:59] <apachelogger> Riddell: there is nothing beyond those two anyway
[13:00] <Riddell> it was also commented at cebit by kde promo people that they didn't give away CDs because they had non-KDE branding on
[13:00] <apachelogger> there is no point in changing the plasma theme as that is part transparent anyway and going away from oxygen window/widget systle would take away snazzyness IMHO
[13:01] <apachelogger> Riddell: that is an unhealthy attitude
[13:01] <apachelogger> what would they like to give away? a cd with source tars?
[13:01] <Riddell> I agree
[13:02] <Riddell> ekhart's point was they were demoing kde then shouldn't give away something with non-kde bits on it.  I said use kubuntu then that'll solve the issue
[13:02] <apachelogger> afiestas: http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/05/plasma-desktopLf2541.png
[13:02] <apachelogger> I fix one issue and another pops up -.-
[13:02] <apachelogger> akonadi--
[13:04] <apachelogger> Riddell: I understand his point, but it is not practical as KDE produces building blocks for a larger system
[13:04] <apachelogger> hence my comment about giving away source tars
[13:05]  * apachelogger wonders what akonotes is
[13:05] <apachelogger> what I do not get
[13:05] <apachelogger> why does it tell me about the missing folders rather than create them
[13:06] <apachelogger> Riddell: do we have to have the date on by default?
[13:07] <Riddell> apachelogger: I'm not sure, we should do but I suspect we don't
[13:07] <Riddell> probably an upstream change at some point in the past
[13:07] <apachelogger> sebas was that
[13:07] <apachelogger> then I annoyed him for like a month to fix the data appearance
[13:07] <apachelogger> never happened
[13:07] <Riddell> a baltix conspiracy!
[13:07]  * Riddell out for an hour
[13:08] <apachelogger> (also I personally believe it looks better without it anyway)
[13:19] <BluesKaj> hi all
[13:25] <ScottK> Riddell: Is the meeting doodle UTC or local TZ?
[13:25] <apachelogger> 2.6~beta1-1
[13:25] <apachelogger> wtf
[13:36] <apachelogger> Start in 6 hours
[13:36] <apachelogger> ...
[13:37] <apachelogger> i386	18	 1134 jobs (11 hours)
[13:37] <apachelogger> all filled up with daily crap
[13:37]  * apachelogger puts bug report on his todo
[13:41] <apachelogger> debfx:   * Move localized handbooks into own packages named amarok-help-$lang.
[13:41] <apachelogger> what was the rationale for that?
[13:56] <eagles0513875> yofel: thanks for packaging the menubar :) updating now going to try and test it for you agateau  :) 
[13:56] <yofel> thank JontheEchidna, he uploaded it, I'll try to get this fixed in precise as well
[13:58] <eagles0513875> JontheEchidna: thanks testing the menubar fix :) hopefully that has done the trick
[13:59] <eagles0513875> and sadly i still have no menubar :( 
[13:59] <eagles0513875> still in the same state as yesterday :( 
[13:59] <yofel> eagles0513875: which release are you on?
[13:59] <eagles0513875> 18
[13:59] <yofel> er, kubuntu release I mean
[13:59] <Stecchino> so qt 4.8.2 ./configure claims I don't have make. Something changed in precise?
[13:59] <eagles0513875> 12.10
[13:59] <yofel> hm
[13:59] <apachelogger> yofel: do you know the rationale behind :   * Move localized handbooks into own packages named amarok-help-$lang
[14:00] <yofel> apachelogger: cd space
[14:00] <apachelogger> but why invididual packages?
[14:00] <apachelogger> Stecchino: sudo apt-get build-dep qt4-x11?
[14:00] <yofel> dunno, Riddell ^
[14:00] <apachelogger> Riddell is out
[14:00] <eagles0513875> so far yofel it has eliminated the crash but still no menu should i remove my .kde folder?
[14:00] <Stecchino> apachelogger: yeah, I really am missing make ;)
[14:00] <apachelogger> oh well, cannot finish amarok merge without having that resolved
[14:01] <apachelogger> debian introduced -doc
[14:01] <yofel> eagles0513875: ah, I fear I don't know how to resolve that
[14:01] <apachelogger> so it would be good if the changelog stated why we need the help crap :P
[14:01] <ScottK> apachelogger: Do you know if the doodle for the meeting is set up to be UTC or local time?
[14:01] <apachelogger> also why it was called help to begin with ^^
[14:01] <eagles0513875> agateau: any idea? i am on 18 now and i still have no menu just like yesterday
[14:01] <apachelogger> ScottK: utc unless you are logged in I think
[14:02] <ScottK> OK.  I'm logged in, so I guess it's local.
[14:02] <ScottK> Thanks.
[14:02] <apachelogger> actually
[14:02] <apachelogger> might not be adapting
[14:02] <apachelogger> ScottK: what's your first time and date?
[14:02] <apachelogger> utc is 1600 on june 6
[14:02] <ScottK> June 6 at 1600.
[14:02] <apachelogger> always utc then
[14:02] <ScottK> Thanks.
[14:03] <agateau> eagles0513875: your bar got away while you were still running 0.1.17, so it's related to another upgrade/change. Stupid question: is the widget still present in your panel?
[14:03] <eagles0513875> agateau: yes it is but the focus is lets say on tabs from chromium or anything else that i have up on my screen
[14:04] <ScottK> OK.  Doodled.
[14:04] <ScottK> Riddell: unping.
[14:05] <eagles0513875> agateau: is there a way i can attached the menu bar to a debugger or something to see actually whats going on ?
[14:05] <agateau> eagles0513875: does it only fail with chromium?
[14:06] <eagles0513875> it fails on login and before the fix it was failing when i was using dolphin and accessing an external hard drive and even failing at random 
[14:06] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: gdb can attach to running processes
[14:06] <apachelogger> sudo gdb
[14:06] <apachelogger> then attach $PID
[14:06] <apachelogger> where $PID is pidof plasma-desktop
[14:06] <ScottK> (or netbook)
[14:06] <apachelogger> mind that you want to set a break point tho
[14:07] <eagles0513875> and i think it just crashed for me
[14:07] <eagles0513875> at least now i can get a back trace if its related to it i don't know but will attach it in the bug for you agateau  
[14:08] <apachelogger> (side note: attaching is super useful when an application locks up as a backtrace while locked usually tells clearly where/why ;))
[14:08] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: this happened just as i was about to attached
[14:08] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I was wondering ... perhaps we should turn off apport notifications in releases?
[14:09] <agateau> eagles0513875: if you see menubars with other applications like Dolphin or Kwrite but it fails with chromium, then something is wrong with chromium
[14:09] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: did you already run the attach command?
[14:09] <agateau> eagles0513875: I am afraid I don't know how appmenu support works inchromium
[14:09] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: sadly not i was trying to find the process to attach to 
[14:10] <eagles0513875> agateau: it doesn't work with any application 
[14:10]  * apachelogger points out that an application cannot/shouldnt crash while attach is doing its magic as the first thing gdb does is interrupt execution
[14:10] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: ah k
[14:10] <apachelogger> Stecchino: did the videoclip applet get removed?
[14:11] <Stecchino> apachelogger: possibly
[14:11] <Stecchino> there was talk
[14:11] <Stecchino> checking
[14:13] <Stecchino> apachelogger: src/context/applets/videoclip is empty
[14:13] <Stecchino> so guess so
[14:13] <apachelogger> cheers
[14:13] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/05/plasma-desktopuP2541.png
[14:14] <apachelogger> you put the desktop files in the wrong package
[14:15] <debfx> apachelogger: saving space on the cd images
[14:15] <apachelogger> debfx: yes, but why invidual packages?
[14:15] <apachelogger> rather than a grand unified -doc
[14:15] <apachelogger> or rather... would we want to keep the invidual things vs. debian's -doc
[14:16] <debfx> some of them are huge
[14:17] <apachelogger> debfx: so we put some of them on the CD?
[14:17] <debfx> yes
[14:17] <debfx> I think we should keep the individual packages
[14:18] <debfx> unless the docs size considerably decreased in the new release
[14:19] <apachelogger> terribly unlikely
[14:19] <debfx> or maybe we should just ship an audio player that is not bloatware
[14:19] <apachelogger> lol
[14:19] <apachelogger> what about good documentation is bloatware?
[14:20] <jtechidna> apachelogger: apport itself controls whether or not it gets showed
[14:20] <apachelogger> jtechidna: not if there are pending reports I guess
[14:20] <debfx> not the documentation, the application itself
[14:20] <apachelogger> or we should silently discard them if apport is turned off?
[14:20] <apachelogger> jtechidna: just noticed the other day that on a new user I got apport reports
[14:21] <apachelogger> supposedly old ones as I always have the notifications turned off on my user
[14:21] <apachelogger> (all the notifications :P)
[14:21] <debfx> though if you need >10MB to explain how an audio player works, maybe that is a problem
[14:22]  * apachelogger notes that amarok is not an audio player
[14:22] <apachelogger> Phonon::createPlayer is an audio player
[14:22] <apachelogger> amarok is an audio playback management software
[14:22] <apachelogger> fastly different :things P
[14:22] <debfx> aka bloatware
[14:23] <apachelogger> depends on the POV
[14:23] <eagles0513875> ok guys i updated bug 998630 with the latest back trace which I'm starting to wonder if its related to the bug or not and i have no idea how to determine what the cause is if its not plasma-desktop
[14:23] <apachelogger> brrr
[14:24] <Quintasan_> WHY THIS IS CONSTANTLY BROKEN?
[14:24] <Quintasan_> WHY
[14:24] <apachelogger> NOTE: all quantal images are oversized
[14:24] <apachelogger> debfx: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/quantal-desktop-i386.manifest
[14:24] <apachelogger> we do not ship any help packages
[14:24] <apachelogger> so why are they split like that?
[14:24] <apachelogger> Quintasan: \o/
[14:24] <apachelogger> Quintasan: where have you been, I missed you :(
[14:24] <Quintasan> I !@#%@$! install a clean Precise and I still get no freaking sound  in mplayer
[14:24] <Quintasan> CAN'T WE JUST KILL IT WITH FIRE?
[14:24] <debfx> apachelogger: we can now
[14:25] <apachelogger> Quintasan: mplayer?
[14:25] <apachelogger> Quintasan: y u use mplayer?
[14:25] <Quintasan> What should I use? inb4vlc
[14:25] <Quintasan> it sucks with 10bit encodes
[14:25] <apachelogger> VLC!!$!!!#$!!@$@$
[14:25] <apachelogger> Quintasan: 10 bit encodes?
[14:25] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: here here i use it on all my systems even those that aren't linux :D 
[14:25] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I have been taking a break
[14:26] <Quintasan> apachelogger: h.264 10bit encoded video
[14:26] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: u better had, thanks to you I get free hardware and trips to paris :P
[14:26] <eagles0513875> haha
[14:26] <apachelogger> Quintasan: and that does not work in vlc?
[14:26] <apachelogger> u kidding me?
[14:26] <apachelogger> did you encode the video?
[14:26] <Quintasan> I was getting some nice green squares on the video
[14:26] <eagles0513875> wait apachelogger i remember hearing there were issues which were never fixed in regards to 10 bit encoding
[14:26] <apachelogger> because quite honestly if vlc fails to play it then something is seriously wrong with the encoding
[14:27] <BluesKaj> VLC is the most configurable media player , it does what what you set it to do , it does use the negative option defaults like so many others
[14:27] <apachelogger> that is to say the used libraries are excelent, thus allowing the superior playback ;)
[14:27] <BluesKaj> er doesn't use
[14:27] <Quintasan> Something is clearly not right with VLC if mplayer can decode the video
[14:27] <eagles0513875> agateau: i updated the bug report and basically at this point I'm at a total loss what else to try short of deleting my .kde folder
[14:27] <apachelogger> Quintasan: vlc -vvv $FILE -> #videolan
[14:28] <Quintasan> apachelogger: But I'm not talking about the video
[14:28] <Quintasan> The question is why the hell I don't get any sound?
[14:28] <apachelogger> debfx: no we cannot because the images are already oversized
[14:28] <Quintasan> So, amarok plays music with no problems
[14:28] <agateau> eagles0513875: try this: open a terminal, then type "plasmoidviewer menubar". Do you get a window with a menubar?
[14:28] <apachelogger> so unless there is some actual rationale to this than a theoretical future use I do not see why we should keep 300 additional packages over debian
[14:28] <eagles0513875> Quintasan: you checked under audio and the audio track to make sure its set right
[14:28] <Quintasan> Either we are doing something wrong with our mplayer2 package in Ubuntu or PulseAudio is shit
[14:29] <apachelogger> Quintasan: vlc -vvv
[14:29] <apachelogger> I am not going t guess why some random file produces no audio
[14:30] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Do I install vlc from repos or I have to bother looking for some magical deb?
[14:30] <apachelogger> repos
[14:30] <apachelogger> dunno if they are any good though, I have my own vlc build
[14:30] <apachelogger> seeing how popular vlc is I suppose the packages should be goody ;)
[14:31] <Quintasan> Seeing all those encoders of my *cough* legally acquired*cough* don't recommend VLC I'm still reluctant to use it
[14:32] <apachelogger> ScottK: do we still use replaces alongside breaks?
[14:32] <apachelogger> Quintasan: keep using your broken software then
[14:32] <apachelogger> mplayer like too many multimedia apps has spooky code
[14:32] <Quintasan> >plays everything fine when using alsa
[14:32] <Quintasan> >suddenly doesnt work when pulse comes into play
[14:33] <Quintasan> >2012
[14:33] <apachelogger> Quintasan: mplayer.
[14:33] <Quintasan> Can we stop having over 9000 abstraction layers
[14:33] <Quintasan> mplayer2
[14:33] <apachelogger> spooky code remains spooky code even if you append a 2
[14:33] <apachelogger> see amarok :P
[14:34] <eagles0513875> amarok rocks for playing audio and streaming 
[14:34] <eagles0513875> Quintasan: i think i remember someone telling me thats is an ongoing known bug with 10bit 
[14:34] <eagles0513875> and vlc 
[14:34] <Quintasan> apachelogger: And you are the Multimedia Overlord in lands of KDE?
[14:34] <eagles0513875> might have to go dig through their bug tracker i don't know the bug off the top of my head
[14:34] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: he just doesn't wanna use vlc
[14:34] <apachelogger> Quintasan: yes, use gstreamer
[14:34] <eagles0513875> O_O who wouldn't want to use it
[14:35] <Quintasan> apachelogger: And you bash your music player? Go and fix it now
[14:35] <apachelogger> if it does not work there you can shout at shadeslayer or tdfischer
[14:35] <apachelogger> Quintasan: no, I am fixing dragon
[14:35] <Quintasan> But that's even worse
[14:35] <apachelogger> not anymore
[14:35] <apachelogger> even plays bluray now
[14:36] <apachelogger> and doesn't show stupid white windows when stopping, and resumes videos properly (again)....
[14:36]  * apachelogger fixed like 7000 bugs in a week
[14:36] <Quintasan> *shrug*
[14:36] <apachelogger> it still has spooky code though
[14:36] <Quintasan> The only viable media player for Linux - Amarok 2 is now working like shit here
[14:36] <Quintasan> 300mb in ram when idle
[14:36] <Quintasan> seriously?
[14:36] <apachelogger> lol
[14:37] <apachelogger> Stecchino: you should get yourself an apachelogger ;)
[14:37] <eagles0513875> haha i could use an apachelogger  too lol :P 
[14:37] <Tm_T> Quintasan: huh?
[14:38]  * apachelogger points out that he was annoyed by the fact that dragon needed ~1 second to start and now has a branch that makes it start almost instantly even with dbg symbols :P
[14:38] <Quintasan> Tm_T: http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/05/plasma-desktopnV2056.png
[14:38] <apachelogger> Quintasan: I think you are leaking
[14:38] <Quintasan> Hi there Amarok
[14:38] <apachelogger> also 25% cpu is no fun business
[14:38] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I think you should look at what we ship
[14:38] <Quintasan> This is a freaking clean install
[14:39] <Quintasan> I even got rid of every dotdir in my $HOME
[14:39] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/05/plasma-desktopOV2541.png
[14:39] <eagles0513875> I'm wondering if my menu issue i should get rid of the .kde menu apachelogger would that hurt anything?
[14:39] <eagles0513875> Quintasan: how much ram does your system have?
[14:39] <Quintasan> 8GB
[14:40] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: as long as you only move it and don't rm-rf it
[14:40] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: I mean, if it doesn't help you can always move it back
[14:40] <Quintasan> You think I would be able to pbuild in tmpfs with any less? :P
[14:40] <eagles0513875> what does it contain anyway
[14:40] <apachelogger> Quintasan: paste me the advanced memory info for amarok plz
[14:40] <Quintasan> apachelogger: If I'm leaking and package is not bugged then what the hell is wrong
[14:41] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: could it be nepomuk  eating up resources
[14:41] <apachelogger> also full details of that plz
[14:41] <Quintasan> >advanced memory info
[14:41] <Quintasan> How do I into that?
[14:41] <Quintasan> Bug report assistant?
[14:41] <apachelogger> Quintasan: in ksysguard right click amarok
[14:41] <apachelogger> then scroll down to full details and open that
[14:42] <apachelogger> then seelect all and copy
[14:42]  * apachelogger thinks that features needs an export function
[14:43] <apachelogger> oho
[14:43] <apachelogger> that even is a qwebview
[14:43] <yofel> hm... somone got a better class name than 'Klp' for a launchpad class in KubuntuDevTools/launchpad.py? I'm incredibly uncreative today -.-
[14:43] <agateau> eagles0513875: have you tried what I asked you?
[14:43] <Quintasan> apachelogger: http://wklej.org/id/767480/
[14:44] <Quintasan> apachelogger: My thoughts exactly for export function
[14:44] <apachelogger> Quintasan: you could file a bug about it :P
[14:44] <eagles0513875> agateau: ok this is odd I'm doing a ps -aux grep plasma-desktop and nothing is coming up
[14:45] <apachelogger> Quintasan: you are not doing a collection scan right now, do you?
[14:45] <Quintasan> no
[14:45] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Besides, it couldn't possibly last more than 6 hours, could it?
[14:45] <agateau> eagles0513875: that does not answer my question
[14:46] <eagles0513875> oops sry agateau  missed the last thing you wanted me to try I'm going to try it now
[14:46] <apachelogger> Quintasan: not likely
[14:46] <apachelogger> Quintasan: pulseaudio is active?
[14:46] <Quintasan> I think it is
[14:46] <Quintasan> Otherwise I would probably get no sound
[14:46] <apachelogger> rodger
[14:46] <apachelogger> so either gstreamer or amarok is leaking here
[14:46] <apachelogger> Quintasan: how long has it been running?
[14:46] <apachelogger> 421040 KB	[heap]
[14:47] <eagles0513875> agateau: with plasmoidviewer menubar all i get is a white box no menubar
[14:47] <Quintasan> I went to bed while the music was playing
[14:47] <apachelogger> with vlc I have half of that heap
[14:47] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I think 6-7 hours
[14:47] <apachelogger> Quintasan: so it was playing through the nigth?
[14:47] <agateau> eagles0513875: have you focused any application?
[14:48] <eagles0513875> any application i focus all isee is the chromium tab in focus :-/ 
[14:48] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Yeah, it was still playing when I got up so I stopped the playback because I wouldn't be using the pc anymore
[14:48] <apachelogger> right
[14:48] <apachelogger> Quintasan: get a massif log please
[14:48] <Quintasan> what on
[14:48] <apachelogger> amarok
[14:49] <apachelogger> play -> wait 10 seconds -> switch to next -> wait 10 seconds....
[14:49] <apachelogger> do that for some 20 tracks
[14:49] <agateau> eagles0513875: can you pastebin the content of the terminal?
[14:49] <apachelogger> then stop valgrind with ctrl-c (one only)
[14:49] <apachelogger> Quintasan: oh, also
[14:50] <apachelogger> Quintasan: you don't have your entire collection in the playlist by any chance?
[14:50] <Quintasan> I think I do
[14:50] <apachelogger> ....
[14:50] <apachelogger> nevermind then
[14:50] <apachelogger> you are using it wrong
[14:50] <eagles0513875> agateau: all I'm getting is plasmoidviewer(2562 MenuBarApplet::init: Could not connect registrar to DBus
[14:50] <Quintasan> apachelogger: huh>
[14:50] <apachelogger> Quintasan: how many tracks do you have?
[14:50] <Quintasan> You want to tell me I can't just put my whole collection on the freaking playlist?
[14:51] <jtechidna> Quintasan: my amarok would idle at 400 MiB ram, so recently I've switched to clementine and it uses ~70
[14:51] <Quintasan> 3723
[14:51] <apachelogger> Quintasan: you can, it will however use freaking memory
[14:51] <Quintasan> songs
[14:51] <apachelogger> just like juk amarok does not do playlist caching
[14:51] <jtechidna> I had < 90 songs in my playlist, so that's not related
[14:51] <Quintasan> AHAHAHAHA
[14:51] <apachelogger> that is... all track information is held in memory
[14:51] <Quintasan> SERIOUSLY?
[14:51] <Quintasan> WOLOLOLOL
[14:51] <apachelogger> regardless of whether the track is currently visible
[14:51] <Quintasan> ALT+F4
[14:52] <apachelogger> unlike juk its playlist is not the collection
[14:52] <Quintasan> LOL
[14:52] <apachelogger> in particular right now in juk you get that 400 mib usage always
[14:52] <Quintasan> I DELETED AND NOW IT'S 91MB IN MEMORY
[14:52] <Quintasan> XD
[14:52] <apachelogger> wheras in amarok it is a design decision
[14:52] <Quintasan> and cpu usage is still at 27%
[14:53] <apachelogger> in amarok you are supposed to create what we used to call smart playlists
[14:53] <apachelogger> which are continious playlists based on parameters
[14:53] <apachelogger> Quintasan: while playing?
[14:53] <Quintasan> apachelogger: idle, nothing on playlist
[14:53] <apachelogger> fun
[14:53] <apachelogger> Quintasan: gdb attach to it
[14:53] <apachelogger> grab some backtrace on all threads
[14:53] <apachelogger> 3 of them or so
[14:54] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I think I need debug symbols don't I?
[14:54] <apachelogger> yah
[14:54] <Quintasan> apachelogger: ok
[14:54] <apachelogger> if you feel particularly fun you can also cachegrind and callgrind it 
[14:54] <apachelogger> but since instrumentation is dead slow .... ;)
[14:54] <Quintasan> So, now it's not playing any music, nothing is on playlist and I want to gdb attach to it?
[14:55] <apachelogger> jtechidna: I am reasonable certain amarok leaks
[14:55] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Explain the steps to me like you would to a dumb person because I used gdb once
[14:55] <agateau> eagles0513875: ok so it means the menubar widget is already there
[14:55] <apachelogger> somewhere around 2.3 heap management became too complicated 
[14:55] <eagles0513875> agateau: so could this be related to a graphics driver issue?
[14:55] <agateau> eagles0513875: remove it from your desktop and start "plasmoidviewer menubar" again
[14:56] <apachelogger> now even singletons cause problems with destruciton or no destruction or some destruction...
[14:56] <eagles0513875> ok waiting for plasma-desktop to crash again 
[14:56] <apachelogger> happens when you maek software too complicated :P
[14:56] <bambee> woo !!! http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTExMzA  
[14:56] <jtechidna> heh
[14:56] <apachelogger> phonon has a similar issue with pulseaudio shutdown
[14:56] <apachelogger> which is architectural though ... as pulseaudio needs to wire in boht the frontend and the backend
[14:57] <Quintasan> That's why open source is not popular
[14:57] <apachelogger> Quintasan: what is?
[14:57] <Quintasan> We make things so complicated it's !@#! better to rewrite things and we still end up with nothing good
[14:58] <Quintasan> KMail and Amarok are the prime examples of that
[14:58] <Quintasan> LOL LET'S REWRITE CODE
[14:58] <apachelogger> kmail was not rewriten
[14:58] <Quintasan> now my email client doesnt work
[14:58] <apachelogger> also kmail is somewhat unmaintained
[14:58] <apachelogger> amarok was rewriten, that is not why it leaks memory though
[14:58] <apachelogger> those issues are more complicated really
[14:58] <Quintasan> and amarok developers try to tell me it's a design dections and I can't freaking have everything on playlist
[14:59]  * apachelogger wonders when Riddell will return from his 1 hour awayness :P
[14:59] <Quintasan> design decision*
[14:59] <Quintasan> ok so amarok is running and I have gdb and debug magic installed apachelogger
[14:59] <apachelogger> sudo gdb
[14:59] <apachelogger> ah
[14:59] <apachelogger> first
[14:59] <apachelogger> pidof amarok
[14:59] <apachelogger> then sudo gdb
[15:00] <apachelogger> attach $WHATPIDOFSAID
[15:00] <apachelogger> ...wait...
[15:00] <apachelogger> then
[15:00] <apachelogger> thread apply all bt
[15:00] <eagles0513875> agateau:  :) now i get something ill post it on the bug report
[15:00] <debfx> apachelogger: the images are only oversized if we decide so
[15:00] <Quintasan> Still reading symbols
[15:00] <apachelogger> hit enter until all backtraces print, then copy to paste
[15:00] <apachelogger> then 
[15:00] <apachelogger> continue
[15:00] <apachelogger> wait a bit
[15:00] <apachelogger> then ctr+c
[15:00] <agateau> eagles0513875: can you pastebin it?
[15:00] <apachelogger> thread appply.....
[15:00] <eagles0513875> sure :) agateau 
[15:01] <apachelogger> Quintasan: the idea is to interrupt at random times and fetch backtraces to see whether some function (chain) is executed regularly 
[15:01] <apachelogger> which would then be the function (chain) that needed investigation
[15:01] <eagles0513875> agateau: http://pastebin.com/6rWTnN4a
[15:01] <apachelogger> Quintasan: sampled callgrind technique that is ^^
[15:02] <Quintasan> thread apply all bt should be run when music is playing, right?
[15:02] <Quintasan> you want me to add the whole collection again?
[15:03] <apachelogger> no
[15:03] <apachelogger> you cannot run gdb instructions while the application is executing code
[15:03] <agateau> eagles0513875: "plasmoidviewer(2598)/kdeui (kdelibs): Session bus not found" < this is plasmoidviwer telling you something is terribly wrong with your session
[15:03] <agateau> eagles0513875: you should logout and back
[15:03] <apachelogger> Quintasan: lemme get you a log
[15:03] <eagles0513875> agateau: restarting give me 30 sec :D 
[15:04] <Quintasan> apachelogger: empty playlist, amarok doing nothing and you want me to run thread apply all bt on that state?
[15:05] <Quintasan> apachelogger: http://paste.kde.org/493538/
[15:06] <apachelogger> Quintasan: http://paste.kde.org/493544/
[15:06] <apachelogger> mind the lines startign with (gdb)
[15:07] <apachelogger> this is right after loading is finished
[15:07] <Riddell> apachelogger: hi
[15:07] <apachelogger> Riddell: do you have a rationale for amarok-help-*
[15:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: debian introduced amarok-doc, so I am wondering if it is worth keeping the detailed split
[15:08] <apachelogger> Stecchino: the collectionscanner is a qprocess I presume?
[15:09] <apachelogger> Quintasan: need more samples than that ^^
[15:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: cd size I think was the reason debfx did that I think
[15:09] <Quintasan> apachelogger: ok
[15:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: if debian have a simple -doc split go with that
[15:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: ok
[15:10]  * apachelogger really wonders why amarok needs so many eventloops -.-
[15:10] <apachelogger> Quintasan: what cpu do you have?
[15:11] <Quintasan> Intel Core i5
[15:11] <apachelogger> k
[15:11] <apachelogger> Quintasan: can I get more samples please
[15:12] <Quintasan> apachelogger: making them
[15:12] <apachelogger> Quintasan: also is amarokcollectionscanner running?
[15:12] <Quintasan> apachelogger: nope
[15:12] <apachelogger> keep a watch out for it while you take samples
[15:12] <apachelogger> commiting changes caues ~16% load here
[15:13] <apachelogger> (database changes)
[15:13] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Will 5 samples suffice?
[15:13] <apachelogger> Quintasan: yah
[15:14] <eagles0513875> agateau: sadly still nothing
[15:14] <agateau> eagles0513875: what does plasmoidviewer say?
[15:14] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Pastin'
[15:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: also please take note of the wrong desktop file package
[15:15] <Quintasan> apachelogger: http://paste.kde.org/493556/
[15:15] <eagles0513875> agateau: now i have file showing up but full screen menu bar
[15:15] <Quintasan> I'm still running gdb so I can get some more if you want
[15:16] <agateau> eagles0513875: ?
[15:16] <eagles0513875> agateau: i have a full screen menu but nothing is showing up on command line
[15:16] <agateau> eagles0513875: right, you can't have both the plasmoidviewer and the menubar in the desktop running at the same time
[15:17] <agateau> eagles0513875: remove the one from the desktop, then run plasmoidviewer menubar again
[15:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: .desktop files should be in the same package as the .so plugin they reference
[15:17] <eagles0513875> ok 
[15:17] <eagles0513875> will have to do later i have to run to a meeting
[15:17] <apachelogger> Riddell: not if we have a common package
[15:18] <Riddell> apachelogger: oh spose so
[15:18] <apachelogger> Quintasan: ok, we'll need a callgrind
[15:18] <apachelogger> seems to me it is doing nothing but regular event processing
[15:18] <Quintasan> oh yeah, no sound in videos in vlc as well
[15:18] <apachelogger> so one of the events might be causing the load
[15:18] <Quintasan> k
[15:19] <Quintasan> do I kill gdb?
[15:19] <apachelogger> yah and amarok
[15:20] <Quintasan> k
[15:20] <Quintasan> What now?
[15:20] <Quintasan> valgrind and co. are installed
[15:20] <apachelogger> valgrind --tool=callgrind --callgrind-out-file=amarok.callgrind amarok --nofork
[15:20] <apachelogger> then let it run for a while nto doing anything to amarok
[15:21] <apachelogger> then ctrl+c valgrind (once!)
[15:21] <apachelogger> (a subsequent ctrl+c will likely sigint valgrind itself ;))
[15:22] <Quintasan> K, I'll be reading on C then in mean time
[15:22] <apachelogger> Riddell: can one stage invidiual lines with bzr?
[15:22] <apachelogger> Quintasan: just need it for like 1 minute after the window appears
[15:22] <Riddell> I believe so, I seem to remember qbzr can do it
[15:22] <Quintasan> what
[15:22] <Quintasan> on earth
[15:23] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Amarok window just came up from tray and it's all grey
[15:23] <Quintasan> wut
[15:23] <Quintasan> oh
[15:23] <Quintasan> nbm
[15:23] <Quintasan> nvm*
[15:23] <apachelogger> Quintasan: instrumentation slows down the app by a factor of n :P
[15:23] <apachelogger> n >= 5
[15:23] <apachelogger> usually :P
[15:24] <Quintasan> mother of god
[15:24] <apachelogger> (which is why it makes analyzing video playback utter fun because you'll have to have a way to turn off frame discarding as all frames will be late for drawing ;))
[15:25] <apachelogger> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/migration/en/survival/bzr-for-git-users.html \o/
[15:25] <apachelogger> You can still commit a subset of files, and it is possible to commit a subset of hunks within a file using plugins, but there is no way to stage part of a commit and then continue working.
[15:25] <apachelogger> pff
[15:26] <Quintasan> I ctrl+c'd it and it stopped
[15:26] <Quintasan> massif-visualizer amarok.callgrind ?
[15:27] <apachelogger> nah
[15:27] <apachelogger> mail me the file
[15:27] <apachelogger> kcachegrind is the tool you want btw
[15:27] <apachelogger> massif != grind :P
[15:28] <Quintasan> MOTHER OF GOD
[15:28] <Quintasan> IT'S 17MB
[15:28] <apachelogger> xz -9 amarok.callgrind
[15:29] <Quintasan> oh
[15:29] <Quintasan> 2mb
[15:30] <Quintasan> apachelogger: sent
[15:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: qshelve perhaps?
[15:31] <Quintasan> YES
[15:31] <Riddell> apachelogger: yep
[15:31] <Quintasan> I KNOW WHY NO SOUND
[15:31] <Quintasan> How does one change default audio device in PA?
[15:31] <Riddell> Quintasan: through the phonon UI
[15:31] <CIA-44> [lp:kubuntu-dev-tools] Philip Muškovac * 145 * bin/kgetsource special case kdelibs as we call it kde4libs
[15:32] <apachelogger> Riddell: can only shelve hunks -.-
[15:32] <apachelogger> oh well
[15:32] <apachelogger> better than nothing
[15:32] <Quintasan> Riddell: Oh really? VLC and mplayer2 don't respect those probably
[15:32] <apachelogger> Quintasan: vlc does
[15:32] <Quintasan> It doesn't
[15:32] <apachelogger> Quintasan: does here :P
[15:32] <apachelogger> anyhow
[15:32] <apachelogger> you could install phonon-backend-vlc :P
[15:32] <Quintasan> http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/05/plasma-desktoprR2056.png
[15:32] <apachelogger> and then use dragon ... that way you definitely get the right device
[15:33] <Quintasan> and VLC wanted to use the HDMI one
[15:35] <BluesKaj> Quintasan, you can set VLC to whatever output you want in tools /preferences
[15:39] <apachelogger> http://paste.kde.org/493610/
[15:39] <apachelogger> dafuq
[15:49]  * apachelogger would totally love if we could implement dep3 -.-
[15:50] <Riddell> which one is that?
[15:50] <apachelogger> patch comment
[15:50] <apachelogger> half the time with patch updates is lost looking like a monkey at files only to see that our patch was from upstream or sent upstream
[15:52] <Riddell> my habit is usually to put the comment in the chaneglog, but the fashion these days it to put it in the patch so I should fix that habit
[15:52] <apachelogger> changelog needed to be searched ^^
[15:53] <Riddell> that's why I always ensure to put the patch filename in the changelog
[15:53] <Riddell> but yes
[15:54]  * apachelogger likes to do both
[15:55] <apachelogger> seems useful enough to put info in both as in the changelog it might be useful should the issue reappear after it was already fixed upstream and the patch dropped
[15:55] <apachelogger> almost done \o/
[15:58] <apachelogger> Quintasan: looking at grind
[15:59] <jussi> o/
[15:59] <Quintasan> apachelogger: no !@$# idea
[15:59] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I removed ~/.pulse
[15:59] <jussi> Im drinking this strange ginger stuff with whiskey - its pretty good...
[15:59] <Quintasan> ran mplayer -ao alsa and shit works
[15:59] <Quintasan> MAGIC
[16:00] <apachelogger> why do you ao to alsa with pulse anyway?
[16:00] <Riddell> jussi: irn bru?
[16:00] <jussi> Riddell: nah, hang on let me grab the name.
[16:01] <apachelogger> Quintasan: install kdelibs and libdbus dbg and regrind
[16:01] <Quintasan> hurr
[16:01] <jussi> Riddell: http://indigogreen.com.au/
[16:02] <apachelogger> Quintasan: for how long did you run after the window appeared?
[16:02] <Quintasan> apachelogger: because pulse ao yields no sound? xD
[16:02] <Quintasan> apachelogger: for like, two minutes
[16:03] <apachelogger> Quintasan: how many tracks in the playlist?
[16:03] <jussi> Riddell: its rather good - slightly sweet to begin with, but then hot :D
[16:03]  * apachelogger points out that 2 million mallocs in 2 minutes is a bit much ....
[16:03] <Quintasan> LOL
[16:03] <apachelogger> I think
[16:04] <Quintasan> libdbus-glib-1-2-dbg ?
[16:04] <apachelogger> Quintasan: I think there is dbus-dbg
[16:04] <Quintasan> there is not
[16:04] <apachelogger> well, just install all dbus dbg
[16:05] <apachelogger> 7k dbus msgs seems also a lot *shrug*
[16:05] <Quintasan> apachelogger: K, should I play those files on play list or just ADD them?
[16:06] <Quintasan> w8
[16:06] <apachelogger> Quintasan: nah
[16:06] <apachelogger> just wanna know how many are in the playlist
[16:06] <apachelogger> cuz it's deploying 988 mysql queries
[16:09] <apachelogger> FWIW with dragon I get 200k mallocs in >2 minutes
[16:09] <apachelogger> then again it less strings to begin with
[16:10] <apachelogger> oh ohoh
[16:10] <apachelogger> ah, nvm
[16:11] <Quintasan> apachelogger: TBH when I ran the valgrind it was empty
[16:11] <Quintasan> NO, ZERO NULL
[16:12] <apachelogger> Quintasan: huh?
[16:12] <apachelogger> what valgrind?
[16:12] <apachelogger> memcheck?
[16:12] <Quintasan> durr
[16:12] <apachelogger> what's a durr?
[16:12] <Quintasan> apachelogger: callgrind on amarok
[16:12] <Quintasan> the playlist was empty
[16:12] <apachelogger> ahhh
[16:12] <apachelogger> Quintasan: then I am reasonable certain that you >3k tracks have about 800 albums :P
[16:13] <apachelogger> Quintasan: is that number far off?
[16:13] <Quintasan> far off
[16:14] <Quintasan> It's about 270
[16:14] <apachelogger> hm
[16:14] <apachelogger> oh
[16:14] <Quintasan> I have my collection on HDD like
[16:14] <apachelogger> hmmmmmmmmmmm
[16:14] <Quintasan> Artist - Album - Files
[16:14] <apachelogger> then amarok's mysql tables are complex :P
[16:15] <jussi> where are we at with the 4.9 packaging? 
[16:15] <apachelogger> could be something like 270*2 (query album & artist of album)
[16:16] <apachelogger> Quintasan: how many artists?
[16:16]  * apachelogger was under the impression album did lazy query on the mysql collection
[16:16] <apachelogger> s/album/amarok/
[16:16] <kubotu> apachelogger meant: "was under the impression amarok did lazy query on the mysql collection"
[16:16] <Quintasan> hmm
[16:16] <Quintasan> artists are little bit harder
[16:17] <apachelogger> Quintasan: amarok has a plugin for that btw
[16:17] <Quintasan> Like, would be 65+
[16:17] <Quintasan> but some files have more tags
[16:17] <apachelogger> rating statistics or something
[16:17] <apachelogger> s/plugin/script/
[16:17] <kubotu> apachelogger: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[16:17] <apachelogger> actually
[16:18] <apachelogger> Quintasan: if you let amarok run idle for 2 minutes without instrumentation does it constantly have the 25% load?
[16:18] <Quintasan> Now I'm playing ONE song
[16:19] <Quintasan> ~3% CPU and 503mb of memory are being used
[16:19] <apachelogger> you can only play one song at a time
[16:19] <apachelogger> (well, technically 2 ^^)
[16:19] <Quintasan> ok, only one song is at the play list
[16:19] <apachelogger> Oo
[16:19] <apachelogger> Quintasan: so you have no load?
[16:19] <apachelogger> :P
[16:19]  * apachelogger points out that a callgrind only makes sense if it constantly uses cpu when idle :P
[16:20] <Quintasan> http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/05/plasma-desktopVk2047.png
[16:20] <apachelogger> fatty
[16:21] <apachelogger> Quintasan: massif log please
[16:21] <Quintasan> I wanted to use mpd
[16:21] <Quintasan> BUT NO SORRY WE USE PULSE AUDIO AND IT WON'T WORK
[16:21] <apachelogger> start -> play -> ~ 20 seconds -> ctrl+c 
[16:21] <apachelogger> xz -9 log, sending
[16:22] <Quintasan> [~]% valgrind --tool=massif --massif-out-file=amarok.massif amarok --nofork?
[16:22] <apachelogger> aye
[16:26] <Quintasan> apachelogger: sent
[16:27] <apachelogger> did you gimps the mem usage by any chance?
[16:27] <Quintasan> pulseaudio laughs at my silly attempts to change the default device
[16:27] <Quintasan> apachelogger: You wanted to know if I photoshopped them?
[16:28] <apachelogger> hmmmm
[16:28] <apachelogger> Quintasan: yes :P
[16:28] <Quintasan> I can record a movie what I'm freaking doing
[16:28] <Quintasan> If you don't believe me
[16:29] <Quintasan> Now it's at 266
[16:29] <Quintasan> I launched it
[16:29] <Quintasan> Added ONE ALBUM to the freaking playlist
[16:29] <apachelogger> Quintasan: you ctrl-c'd?
[16:29] <Quintasan> and started playbakc
[16:29] <Quintasan> apachelogger: The massif log? I did
[16:29] <Quintasan> I ctrl+c'd once and waited for it terminate by itself
[16:30] <Quintasan> 271mb of memory now
[16:30] <apachelogger> :O
[16:30] <apachelogger> Oo
[16:31] <apachelogger> Quintasan: did you look at the chart?
[16:32] <Quintasan> 238
[16:32] <Quintasan> reported
[16:32] <apachelogger> Quintasan: stop playback
[16:32] <apachelogger> how much memory consumed?
[16:32] <apachelogger> stop - not pause FWIW
[16:33] <Quintasan> I'm not dumb
[16:33] <apachelogger> just saying :P
[16:33] <Quintasan> still at 275mb
[16:33] <Quintasan> according to ksysguard
[16:33] <Quintasan> htop says 335MB
[16:33] <apachelogger> htop is dumb
[16:34] <Quintasan> top also does
[16:34] <apachelogger> they are both dumb
[16:34] <Quintasan> K
[16:34] <Quintasan> so ksysguard still hovers around 275mb
[16:35] <apachelogger> ...
[16:35] <apachelogger> did you look at the massif chart?
[16:36] <Quintasan> It says max was 238
[16:36] <apachelogger> yes
[16:36] <apachelogger> it tells me more than that though :P
[16:36] <apachelogger> Quintasan: quit amarok
[16:36] <apachelogger> start again
[16:36] <apachelogger> look at memory consumption
[16:37] <Quintasan> 63 when ~15 songs on playlist
[16:37] <Quintasan> not playing anything
[16:37] <apachelogger> ......
[16:37] <apachelogger> that is what massif tells me :P
[16:37] <apachelogger> your gstreamer pipeline is 200 mib fat!
[16:37] <Quintasan> caution
[16:37] <Quintasan> I start playback now
[16:37] <apachelogger> 200 mib right there :P
[16:38] <Quintasan> 263
[16:38] <Quintasan> xD
[16:38] <apachelogger> told ya
[16:38] <Quintasan> WHAT
[16:38] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/05/plasma-desktopVY2541.png
[16:38] <Quintasan> IS THIS?
[16:38] <apachelogger> vlc supremacy!
[16:38] <apachelogger> my vlc pipeline is smaller than amarok's entire base consumption :P
[16:38] <Quintasan> yes, vlc respects pulseaudio settings
[16:38] <Quintasan> bullshit
[16:38] <apachelogger> with pvlc it does
[16:39] <apachelogger> Quintasan: so
[16:39] <apachelogger> now at 91 Mib ^^
[16:39] <apachelogger> anyhow
[16:40] <apachelogger> Quintasan: I think this is due to fact that gsteamer likes to create memcopy based pipelines
[16:40] <apachelogger> whereas vlc stuff is often zero-copy
[16:40] <apachelogger> 200 mib is still hefty tho
[16:42] <Quintasan> hmm
[16:42] <Quintasan> I somehow killed the HDMI output
[16:42] <apachelogger> Quintasan: out of interest... which gstreamer plugins do you have installed/
[16:42] <apachelogger> ?
[16:42] <Quintasan> no idea
[16:43] <Quintasan> I just installed what the nifty dialog on playback start suggested
[16:43] <apachelogger> check please
[16:44] <Quintasan> THIS API HAS BEEN DISABLED. Please use Pastebin's new API. http://pastebin.com/api
[16:44] <Quintasan> durr
[16:44] <Quintasan> http://wklej.org/id/767564
[16:44] <apachelogger> afiestas: someone should offer the desktop guy help getting his stuff into kde ;)
[16:45] <afiestas> who?
[16:45] <apachelogger> the guy who is working on freerdp support
[16:50] <apachelogger> !info phonon-backend-gstreamer
[16:51] <apachelogger> Quintasan: actually looks like the bug
[16:53] <apachelogger> Quintasan: install gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse
[16:54] <apachelogger> also what filetype are the tracks?
[16:54] <Quintasan> The one i played was FLAC
[16:54] <afiestas> apachelogger: yes
[16:54] <apachelogger> try something less fat :P
[16:54] <afiestas> apparently I was t harsh or something :/
[16:54] <afiestas> jsut replied
[16:54] <apachelogger> afiestas: didn't think so
[16:54] <apachelogger> some people are just very insecure about their work
[16:55] <apachelogger> that is why I do pornon, whatever I do as long as prn remains playable everyone is happy :P
[16:55] <highvoltage> oO
[16:55] <apachelogger> Quintasan: so, my mem usage doesn't go beyond 100 MiB
[16:55] <apachelogger> which may be related to mp3 v flac
[16:56] <Quintasan> wut
[16:56] <Quintasan> now it's 77mb
[16:56] <Quintasan> when playing
[16:56] <apachelogger> same file?
[16:56] <Quintasan> y
[16:57] <apachelogger> the flac file?
[16:57] <Quintasan> yes
[16:57] <apachelogger> oh
[16:57] <apachelogger> hihihi
[16:57] <apachelogger> I do have a hunch why
[17:00] <apachelogger> Quintasan: y u no accept invite?
[17:01] <apachelogger> Quintasan: go t #kde-multimedia
[17:21] <debfx> JontheEchidna: are you still working on kde-workspace 4.8.80?
[17:21] <jtechidna> debfx: nope
[17:22] <jtechidna> I was using old hooks and was unable to get a reliable list-missing with the dhmk stuff
[17:23] <debfx> jtechidna: so it should be ready after updating install and symbol files?
[17:24] <jtechidna> debfx: I've done the .symbols files (and bumped a few X-Debian-ABI), but the library .install files need to be updated for that
[17:24] <jtechidna> and of course any new files that 4.9 introduces elsewhere
[17:24] <jtechidna> I forgot to update the .install files of the libraries that I bumped the X-Debian-ABI, in other words
[17:25] <jtechidna> so once that gets fixed & list-missing has been incorporated into the .install files, things should be good
[17:27] <debfx> ok, will update those and upload
[17:27] <jtechidna> thanks
[17:30] <CIA-44> [lp:kubuntu-dev-tools] Philip Muškovac * 146 * (10 files in 5 dirs) * switch to dh7 packaging * Add pylib/KubuntuDevTools with some python utilities * use KDTLaunchpad in newpackage, klearppa and kopypackages for authentication
[17:35] <yofel> apachelogger: with that you can specify the credentials file in $KUBUNTU_DEV_TOOLS_CREDENTIALS - but you now need to actually install the package as you need the module installed.
[17:35] <yofel> for now I left it hardcoded in newpackage, throw it out if you don't need it
[17:38] <eagles0513875> agateau: i tried to remove the menu bar widget and i can't even click on it i get no menu when i right click :( 
[17:52] <CIA-44> [lp:kubuntu-dev-tools] Philip Muškovac * 147 * setup.py fix version in setup script
[18:32] <yofel> hm, copyright fun: http://paste.kde.org/493736 - that's... what?
[18:32] <yofel> (that's dragon-4.8.80/src/app/analyzer/analyzerBase.* )
[18:34] <yofel> ah, no, only the .cpp
[18:39] <jussi> [21:37:53] <#kubuntu:sdaugherty> Hi, There seems to be some sort of squid error on www.kubuntu.org. http://paste.kde.org/493742/
[18:40] <yofel> kubotu: help newpackage
[18:40] <kubotu> newpackage <packagename> <version> [description]; Adds needs-packaging bug for entirely new package.
[18:40] <kubotu> newversion <packagename> <version> [description]; Adds update bug for existing package.
[18:40] <yofel> kubotu: newversion calligra 2.4.90 ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/calligra-2.4.90/
[18:41] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1009159
[18:42] <jussi> that is so awesome ^^
[18:43] <yofel> :D
[18:43] <yofel> bbl
[19:01] <ScottK> apachelogger: Yes (when appropriate) - usage for replaces hasn't changed.
[19:12] <shadeslayer> ooohh
[19:12] <shadeslayer> jussi: I get that too
[19:14] <jussi> shadeslayer: what? 
[19:15] <shadeslayer> jussi: that squid error
[19:15] <shadeslayer> i.e. cannot access kubuntu.org
[19:15] <jussi> ahh yes, I relayed that from #kubuntu
[19:15] <jussi> but I get it also
[19:16] <shadeslayer> okay
[19:28] <shadeslayer> uh is it just me
[19:28] <shadeslayer> or is jono doing a AMA on reddit
[19:28] <shadeslayer> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/umavd/iama_ubuntu_community_manager_at_canonical/ 
[19:28] <jussi> shadeslayer: he is, yes
[19:28] <shadeslayer> I just noticed it :D
[19:29] <jussi> lol
[19:31] <shadeslayer> Clearly this is a sign that I've spent way too much time on reddit today
[19:31] <shadeslayer> and that I should be studying
[19:34]  * jussi banishes shadeslayer to the study room
[19:36] <CIA-44> [lp:kubuntu-dev-tools] Philip Muškovac * 148 * bin/newpackage use upgrade instead of update for package upgrades for consistency
[19:38] <CIA-44> [lp:kubuntu-dev-tools] Philip Muškovac * 149 * bin/newpackage use login_with without parameters
[19:38] <ScottK> yofel: I'd use upgrade for new feature versions and update for post-release updates.
[19:39] <yofel> well, the script currently makes no difference there
[19:39] <yofel> apachelogger: I threw the hardcoded credentials file out after all, so adjust that for the bot
[19:41] <yofel> ScottK: and I'm not sure how to tell that apart without adding yet another option
[19:41] <ScottK> yofel: last digit < or > 10.
[19:44] <apachelogger> yofel: boohooo
[19:45] <yofel> that's too ambigous IMHO, but I can add it if you want...
[19:46] <ScottK> yofel: There'll never be another case where the last digit of a KDE release is < 10 and it's not a post-release bugfix.
[19:47] <ScottK> jussi: Thanks.  I got Canonical people looking at it (kubuntu.org)
[19:47] <jussi> ScottK: no probs, I only noticed cause the guy in kubuntu said somethign
[19:47] <yofel> ScottK: this isn't just for KDE, so you would "update" to calligra 2.9, but "upgrade" to 2.11
[19:47] <ScottK> yofel: In that case, I agree it's ambiguous.
[19:47] <yofel> as the .0 is missing there
[19:50] <yofel> meh, now I'm not convinced anymore that I should even change that -.-
[19:55] <CIA-44> [lp:kubuntu-dev-tools] Philip Muškovac * 150 * bin/newpackage revert r148, most version upgrade bugs use update and it's easier to understand
[19:56] <apachelogger> now that I fixed pornon
[19:56] <apachelogger> where was I
[19:56] <apachelogger> Quintasan: oh ah yes
[19:56] <apachelogger> good sir
[19:56] <apachelogger> Quintasan: how much space do you have free on your /home partition?
[19:56] <yofel> and I can't find any recommendation for how that should be called anyway
[20:01] <apachelogger> ScottK: it got hacked I tell you
[20:01] <apachelogger> first no access, then down :P
[20:01] <ScottK> Could be.
[20:01] <apachelogger> soon fwd to phonon.kde.org
[20:01] <apachelogger> or uprn or something
[20:02] <apachelogger> I think I broke Quintasan again
[20:47] <apachelogger> rbelem: where is the copyright generater you are writing?
[20:51]  * eagles0513875 is going to try purge kubuntu-desktop on netbook and reinstall it
[21:02] <apachelogger> bah
[21:02] <apachelogger> turning on xz in debian/rules
[21:03] <apachelogger> what a mindwarp
[21:03] <apachelogger> no wonder it took 3000 hours to compress
[21:03] <ScottK> I can log into the web site too, so that's fixed as well.
[21:04] <apachelogger> unhacked :(
[21:04] <ScottK> corrupted sessions table
[21:04] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^
[21:05] <apachelogger> (process:5842): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_type_instance_get_private: assertion `instance != NULL && instance->g_class != NULL' failed
[22:07] <CIA-44> [amarok] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20120605220713-wkyla5o7kfgpsis9 * debian/ (18 files in 2 dirs) (log message trimmed)
[22:07] <CIA-44> * Merge from Debian experimental, remaining changes: (LP: 1008645) - Don't
[22:07] <CIA-44> build-depend on libavformat-dev and libofa0-dev as libavcodec* is not allowed on
[22:33] <Riddell> ScottK: those session tables, one bribe offer and they're corrupted straight away
[22:33] <ScottK> :-)
[23:22] <apachelogger> hold on, who got a bribe offer?
[23:23] <apachelogger> kubotu: buildstatus amarok
[23:23] <apachelogger> oh oh
[23:26] <kubotu> Kubuntu IRC Bot (kubotu) • [Log Out]
[23:26] <kubotu> [launchpa]
[23:26] <kubotu> Launchpad.net
[23:26] <kubotu>   • Launchpad Home
[23:26] <kubotu>   • Code...
[23:26] <apachelogger> pff
[23:26] <apachelogger> kubotu: buildstatus amarok
[23:26] <kubotu> amarok:
[23:26] <kubotu>  powerpc Currently building
[23:26] <kubotu>  i386 Currently building
[23:26] <kubotu>  armhf Currently building
[23:26] <kubotu>  armel Currently building...
[23:26] <apachelogger> neat
[23:27] <apachelogger> Riddell: is there a particular reason your buildstatus script doesn't use login_anonymous?
[23:30] <micahg> shouldn't amarok have gone to -proposed?
[23:31] <apachelogger> micahg: that's betarr
[23:32] <micahg> apachelogger: ?
[23:32] <apachelogger> hm
[23:32] <apachelogger> micahg: what are you talking about?
[23:32] <micahg> apachelogger: and you also forgot -v :)
[23:32] <apachelogger> because I am talking about the currently building amarok
[23:32] <micahg> apachelogger: during alpha1 freeze anything that can cause arch skew is supposed to go to -proposed
[23:32] <apachelogger> micahg: oh, true :(
[23:33] <micahg> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-June/000960.html
[23:34] <apachelogger> micahg: my amarok prevoiusly crashed, I count that as bugfix
[23:35] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: do you know what happened to the ktp release yet?
[23:37] <micahg>     In particular, an upload that will increase the count of
[23:37] <micahg>     uninstallable packages in main, even temporarily, MUST be 
[23:37] <micahg>     done to quantal-proposed instead of to quantal.  
[23:37] <micahg> but I see how you could read it otherwise
[23:38] <micahg> apachelogger: I'm guessing infinity will come after you if you take away his beer though
[23:39] <micahg> anyways, back to testing for me
[23:44] <apachelogger> micahg: I'll prepare just in case :)