/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/05/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

=== scott_ is now known as sgringwe
pittiGood morning03:43
robert_ancellRAOF, what provides xkeyboard-config.pc?04:19
RAOFxkb-data?04:19
robert_ancellRAOF, oh, its one of hose old ones in /usr/share04:21
RAOFNot so much one of those old ones as one of those arch-indep ones, yes :)04:21
robert_ancellRAOF, nah, most packages moved from /usr/share/pkgconfig to /usr/lib/pkgconfig well before arch independence04:23
glatzorhello to the early bird, pitti05:15
glatzorgood morning05:15
pittihey glatzor, guten Morgen05:15
pittiglatzor: nice announcement!05:48
TheMuso~~~/c05:51
pittiTheMuso: bless you :)05:51
TheMuso~heh05:52
TheMusoYay for compiz and orca keybinding clashes/weirdness causing such issues in terminal windows...05:52
didrocksgood morning06:10
RAOFHey didrocks!06:12
didrockshey RAOF, how are you?06:13
RAOFI'm pretty good.06:13
RAOFBack at boot camp-y-thing this morning, but that was long enough ago that I'm now invigorated rather than exhausted :)06:13
RAOFHows about your fine self?06:14
didrocksI'm good as well, busy ubuntu week-end, so trying to get a non too mad week. I hope we can soon tackle this unity runtime crash when rebuilt on quantal gcc and boost06:15
RAOFNothing says ?fun? like a build-chain related crash!06:19
didrocksRAOF: it clearly seems so :)06:24
Sweetsharkmoin07:07
seb128hey07:47
didrockssalut seb128, ça va?07:48
pittihey seb12807:48
didrocksseb128: meeting report reminder!07:48
seb128didrocks, lut, nickel, et toi ?07:48
seb128didrocks, oh, thanks ;-)07:49
didrocksseb128: ça va bien :)07:49
seb128pitti, hey, wie gehts?07:49
pittigut, danke!07:49
* pitti just sent his first kernel patch to LKML and is now waiting for getting flamed07:49
glatzormorning mvo07:55
glatzormvo: I cherry pick some fixes for the Python2 version of aptdaemon in lp:~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/0.4x to upload it to Debian. This would also a good candidate for Precise07:57
seb128pitti, it wouldn't be the full kernel contributor experience if they just say thanks ;-)08:02
seb128hey glatzor08:02
pittiexactly!08:02
mvoglatzor: great, I can prepare a update08:04
glatzormorning seb128 !08:06
glatzorhow are you08:06
glatzor?08:07
seb128glatzor, good! how are you?08:07
glatzorseb128, fine. I am currently on vacations.08:07
glatzormvo, perhaps some other bug fixes will go in08:07
mvoglatzor: cool, there is one I subscribed you too just some minutes ago that appears on errors.ubuntu.com, I can look for the bugnumber08:09
glatzormvo, but could backport the fix of 659438 to oneiric? this would reduce my bug mail :)08:09
glatzormvo, the fix should already by in the 0.4x branch :)08:09
glatzormvo, LP# 98112408:10
glatzormvo, I think that the GObject signal is a little picky about types08:10
glatzormvo, to reproduce aptdaemon.client.AptTransaction("/org/debian/apt/123", None).emit("space-changed", 123123213213122132131321321123123)08:14
alf_didrocks: pong08:15
mvoglatzor: eh, but that is emited as int64, no? do we actually have sizes that exceed that?08:15
Sweetsharkseb128: do we have a desktop meeting today? I carelessly created a wikipage for it already ....08:15
glatzormvo, right, but the space-changed signal of client.AptTransaction only accepted a GObject.TYPE_INT08:16
seb128Sweetshark, hey, thanks for creating the wiki page, I'm about to send the reminder email ... we will have a meeting if anyone has a topic to discuss as usual08:16
glatzormvo, there are also some broken third party packages which report really huge sizes :)08:16
glatzormvo, I replaced all GObject.TYPE_INT by TYPE_INT64 where required08:17
didrocksalf_: hey, I think that ogra_ already went ahead, but FYI, your armhf patch doesn't compile with gcc 4.708:20
didrocks(and -Werror)08:20
BigWhaleGood Morning.08:20
didrocksalf_: on compiz :)08:20
didrockshey BigWhale08:20
alf_didrocks: ok, I will contact ogra08:21
mvoglatzor: aha, I see, so this affects only older versions that use INT instead of INT64?08:23
mvoglatzor: but dosn't the bugreport show UInt64? or am I (still) missing something here .)?08:23
BigWhaledidrocks, vive la France! :>08:26
didrocksBigWhale: c'est plutôt l'angleterre qui est en fête aujourd'hui, mais d'accord, vive la France ;)08:26
BigWhaleNow... I need someone to replace existing keybinder with keybinder-3.0 :)08:27
BigWhaledidrocks, now you overloaded my translation matrix ... :'(08:27
didrocksBigWhale: you knew it was going to be dangerous. Fortunately, google should have the answer ;)08:27
BigWhaleThat I know. :)08:28
BigWhaleOh, I know about UK being all happy and stuff, but since here are so many French people ...08:28
BigWhaleand they are becoming more and more important ... :D08:29
alf_ogra_: Hi! Anything I can do to help with the compiz armhf build failure?08:29
didrocksheh ;)08:29
glatzormvo, right. the value received value for the property from the daemon is a correct dbus.Int64()08:34
glatzormvo, but the segfaults happen when emitting the space-changed signal in the client. and the signal type was set to INT and not to INT64. So if the dbus.Int64 value was higher than an INT it fails08:35
ogra_alf_, well, the GLES code seems to produce warnings with gcc-4.7 ... since upstream sets Werror by default that makes it fail on arm builds now08:40
pittiis rhythmbox working for anyone else in quantal today? it just hangs here without any window08:42
pittiapparently due to the U1 music store08:42
seb128pitti, ENOQUANTAL for me08:42
seb128i.e I'm still on precise so I can't test08:42
alf_ogra_: Hmm, do you have a link to any build logs? I am not on quantal, so no gcc 4.7 for me yet...08:44
didrockspitti: was working 2 days ago, let me try again08:45
didrockspitti: working and u1ms as well, let me see what happened since yesterday (didn't upgrade yet)08:46
didrocksah, newer rythmbox08:47
didrockslet's see08:47
ogra_alf_, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/1:0.9.7.8-0ubuntu2/+build/353796208:49
didrockspitti: still working here after this morning upgrade08:49
ogra_alf_, use a chroot ;)08:50
alf_ogra_: Will probably do that, it seems that the fixes are trivial. Is updating the linaro-gles2-debianpatches branches good for you, or do you prefer some other way?08:52
ogra_alf_, well, i wont maintain any patch anymore in quantal (as discussed at UDS, the GLES bits should be merged before the next upload)08:53
ogra_so as long as it lands in the compiz code i'm fine :)08:54
alf_ogra_: ok, so you are saying there is no need to update the package now if the fixes are in the new codebase (they are by the way)?08:55
ogra_alf_, right, if there are fixes they should happen in the upstream tree08:56
alf_ogra_: ok, there is nothing to do here then :)08:56
ogra_are you sure the warnings dont happen with the upstream tree ?08:57
glatzorbye mvo pitti and seb12808:58
alf_ogra_: I am sure about that particular warning, but the code in compiz/gles2 (which will be merged into trunk) is changing fast so will probably need to recheck.09:01
ogra_that would be good :) -Werror is "the evil" during dev phases IMHO09:02
ogra_(it surely makes sense for releases, but during development ... not so much)09:02
BigWhaleHow do I list all the packages that depend on a certain package?09:15
BigWhaleI want to know which packages depend on keybinder09:16
geserapt-cache rdepends (or reverse-depends from ubuntu-dev-tools)09:33
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
chrisccoulsonhello peoples10:16
ogra_arent you supposed to still celebrate monarchy ?10:17
ogra_:)10:17
chrisccoulsonlol10:17
chrisccoulsonyes10:17
chrisccoulsontoo much to do though. no rest for the wicked ;)10:17
ogra_:)10:17
* Sweetshark just watched http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5twGTI_qw6o . need to lunch now ...10:41
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
=== zyga is now known as zyga-food
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
bcurtiswxgood morning12:28
bcurtiswxCongrats jbicha on MOTU :)12:40
jbichabcurtiswx: good morning and thanks12:40
seb128chrisccoulson, hey, how is the queen party going? ;-)13:08
chrisccoulsonseb128, what queen? ;)13:08
desrtanyone know how to use dejadup to restore only a specific subdirectory?13:09
chrisccoulsoni've managed to completely avoid it all weekend :)13:09
seb128desrt, not sure, create the dir, right click on it in nautilus and pick the restore item?13:09
desrthmm13:10
desrttimely.13:10
seb128desrt, what I described seems to be working (tried here)13:12
desrtwill do, then13:12
seb128but mterry probably has a better way13:12
* desrt just had a git incident13:12
mterryseb128, doubtful, what's up?  (hi)13:12
seb128mterry, hey13:12
seb128mterry,13:12
seb128<desrt> anyone know how to use dejadup to restore only a specific subdirectory?13:13
seb128<seb128> desrt, not sure, create the dir, right click on it in nautilus and pick the restore item?13:13
seb128<seb128> desrt, what I described seems to be working (tried here)13:13
seb128basically13:13
mterrydesrt, you can do that, or you can click in the empty space of that directory and say "restore missing files"13:13
desrtnice...13:13
seb128mterry, will that not restore all the directories?13:13
seb128oh, you can pick what to restore13:14
mterryseb128, it will show you files that are in the backup but not in the directory and you can choose which to restore13:14
seb128I tried to be smart where not needed :p13:14
seb128deja-dup is smarter than me ;-)13:14
mterryseb128, desrt: those two context menus really need some discoverability13:14
desrtarghghgh vala bindings13:15
seb128chrisccoulson, so you just take the days off but don't celebrate the queen back in exchange? I see ;-)13:15
chrisccoulsonseb128, yep :)13:16
=== zyga-food is now known as zyga
desrtseb128: hey.  where's my glib SRU?13:27
desrtyou promised :)13:27
seb128desrt, it got rejected, made me start a discussion with the TB about SRU rules13:30
seb128desrt, that's going to take a while13:30
seb128desrt, basically it's over the level of changes the current SRU team feels confident validating as a SRU13:30
desrtwtf13:31
desrtseb128: can you at least cherry-pick the non-NULL app ID thing?13:31
seb128desrt, yeah, I could cherry pick specific changes, I was still trying to get the update in but I need to get a TB approval for that13:31
desrtseb128: so here's what we do13:31
desrtcherry-pick all the patches, one or two at a time13:32
seb128but maybe doing cherry picks first while that's discussed is better13:32
desrtand then do the SRU saying "we carry all these patchs already anyway" :D13:32
seb128desrt, well I could do that, or I could get the new version in, they just want SRU tracking for each change basically13:32
desrtmakes sense, actually13:33
seb128desrt, i.e if I want the new version in I need 15 bugs with testcase, regression potential, etc13:33
desrtseb128: is it the dbus stuff that's scaring them?13:33
jbichadesrt: don't encourage them! ;)13:33
seb128desrt, that was part of it, they judge incompetent to review a such diff13:33
seb128desrt, I did filter things out of them but they still don't feel like confident acking a such diff13:33
seb128desrt, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-June/001284.html13:34
seb128desrt, if you want the details, I tried to summarize13:34
desrtseb128: so the dbus stuff is really really unimportant13:34
desrtsince it's all for windows13:34
desrtlooking at the rest of the list there are some fixes for building on macos and/or with GNUstep installed13:34
bcurtiswxseb128, it's causing more trouble for GNOME packages than it needs. There may not be a bug report about an issue yet, so its like we have to wait for someone to report a bug about it or create a bug report about it to make sure all patches in a micro release have a bug report associated13:34
desrtneither of which impact your builders13:34
desrtalso adding a bunch of testcases -- also no impact on you13:35
desrtGAppInfo: overwrite the DISPLAY only if it is set in the launch context looks interesting13:35
desrtas well gmain: block child sources when blocking the parent13:35
desrtGSocketControlMessage: Don't warn about unknown messages13:35
seb128desrt, but basically the bottom line is that slangasek thinks we should document every change that goes in a stable serie or get a TB approval to say we trust the source13:35
desrtand you probably really want Fix g_clear_object macro with C++ compilers13:35
jbichawe could just move release day back a few weeks to catch the 3.x.2 releases instead ;)13:35
desrtthose are the only ones worth even thinking about13:36
desrtwhich means that if you can get a green light to cherry-pick those, i wouldn't even worry about the rest of the upgrade13:36
seb128desrt, I've a green line to cherry pick anything I want or to do the update if every commit is documented with an associated bug that get acked13:37
seb128desrt, but I don't want to go that path of having 35 bugs if there are 35 commits in the update13:37
desrtseb128: focus on those 5 ^^13:37
desrt(with my application_id being the 5th)13:38
seb128desrt, yeah, I can do that, I still want the rules changed13:38
desrtunderstood13:38
seb128but I can work on both sides at the same time13:38
seb128in fact that might be easier13:38
desrtthe reason i ask is because we have our new developer tutorials being written right now13:38
desrtand they're using GtkApplication in a way that's currently not working on ubuntu13:38
seb128slangasek thinks I should get a MRE (micro release exception) for GNOME13:38
desrtmaybe for GNOME + sanitycheck13:39
bcurtiswxseb128, were there issues with our more relaxed process for micro release updates? or was it other places and we just got caught in the wave of changes?13:39
seb128which I will do, but I still think the rules need to be changed and not only worked around for us by getting a pass for GNOME13:39
desrtsome gnome microreleases are quite insane13:39
desrti don't think it's appropriate to give blanket cover there without a check by someone like you13:39
seb128yeah, I'm arguing for "use best judgement, trust the maintainer who does the upload"13:39
seb128but still with the SRU team reviewing the diff and acking or nacking13:40
seb128I'm fine with them needing to be be convinced13:40
desrtah13:40
seb128bcurtiswx, there was no "relaxed process"13:40
desrtit's just right now the answer is no, unless you have all the paperwork13:40
seb128yes13:40
seb128slangasek says the TB didn't get a mandate to apply their best judgement on an upload13:40
seb128they just got delegated powers to apply the rules13:40
bcurtiswxseb128, as long as I don't have to make 5 bug reports for a microrelease with 5 patches, I think I'll be OK with having to type a little bit more.. I also don't want to have to type a storybook for every SRU i want to make.13:41
seb128he also said pitti had extra powers by being a TB member so he could wave updates in if he though they made sense13:41
seb128well bottom line, there is an open discussion13:41
desrtseb128: the darker side of bureaucracy :)13:41
seb128let's see how that goes13:41
pittinot individually, just in a board decision13:41
seb128pitti, do you remember if GNOME ever had a MRE?13:42
pittibut really, I agree with seb128 that the SRU team should be able to decide that on a case by case basis13:42
pittiseb128: yes, we had one for hardy LTS I believe13:42
seb128pitti, I will apply for a permanent one I guess13:42
seb128or one for precise at least13:42
pittibut since the SRU team and slangasek just decided to make the process tighter, I'm not sure whether they would13:43
seb128slangasek says it's a TB call13:43
pittibut IMHO the problems are not new upstream versions, the problem is how to make sure they don't regress13:43
pittiwhich is a really tough one to do for things like glib13:43
seb128right13:43
pittihigh-risk, high-benefit13:43
seb128I don't blame them for freaking out on the debdiff of this one13:43
pittias opposed to many SRUs which are low-risk, low-benefit (the ones which got an explicit policy addition a few years back)13:44
seb128the point release added a dbus server implementation13:44
seb128which is only for win32 but still it makes the diff hard to read ;-)13:44
bcurtiswxhow was the SRU team involved with GNOME SRU's before compared to how they want to be now? Is it a huge change, or just tightening up the security on it?13:45
kenvandinefor gnome stuff i've always tried to do a micro-release upload if it fixed bugs that affected us as opposed to just pulling the patches13:47
kenvandinebut if there wasn't fixes i was looking for, didn't both to go look for releases to upload13:47
aquariuswhen trying to upgrade, Update Manager says that I'll be installing packages from untrusted sources... and the list of packages from untrusted sources is everything that is planned to be upgraded. This worries me, because as far as I can tell I'm just getting them from the main archive. Can I verify that somehow? Might I have lost the signing key for the main archive?13:53
kenvandineaquarius, apt-key list14:03
kenvandinewhat does that return?14:03
kenvandineUbuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key14:04
kenvandine?14:04
aquariuskenvandine, ah, I haven't lost the key, then; that's in there14:04
aquariuskenvandine, to take an example, one thing that wants to be upgraded is winbind, which apt-cache policy says that I have from precise-security and wants to install from precise-updates14:06
aquariusso perhaps I do not have the key for precise-updates?14:06
dobeyaquarius: are you using a mirror or the official archive?14:07
kenvandineah14:07
aquariusdobey, the gb mirror14:07
aquariusI can't see a key in apt-key list about updates, but I don't know whether the updates are signed with the official key or their own key14:07
dobeyaquarius: http://askubuntu.com/questions/110118/gpg-error-while-updating14:07
aquariusdobey, that's not the problem I have14:08
aquariusit's not throwing an *error* so much as trapping a condition it doesn't like14:09
aquariusheh14:09
dobeyaquarius: if you run apt-get update again, does it complain about signature on the archive files?14:09
aquariusI have, however, just tried the apt-get clean and then apt-get update from the command line, and now update-manager works.14:09
aquariushow annoying. :)14:09
aquariusthanks, pal :)14:10
dobeyheh14:10
Sweetsharkpitti: did the tech board get the request for a LibreOffice MRE? I just got a reply about moderation so far ...14:17
seb128Sweetshark, it's on the public archive at least14:17
Sweetsharkseb128: k, thanks14:18
=== m_conley_away is now known as m_conley
dobeySweetshark: i haven't heard any replies about my mre request for u1 either :-/14:36
bcurtiswxwho's working on getting GTK 3.5.1 into Quantal ?15:23
seb128bcurtiswx, robert_ancell but it's blocking on Cimi to update unico15:24
seb128gtk changing some of the theming stuff and the theme segfaults15:24
bcurtiswxseb128, OK i need it for empathy 3.5.2 and also someone to sync telepathy-glib from debian15:25
mhr3seb128, gir and multiarch? no worky?15:25
seb128mhr3, no15:26
seb128mhr3, that has not been done yet15:26
mhr3seb128, patches on the horizon?15:26
seb128mhr3, if you are going to work on one maybe ;-)15:26
mhr3yea... no :)15:26
mhr3didrocks, fyi ^^15:26
bcurtiswxkenvandine, would you sync telepathy-glib from debian after A1 freeze for me?15:26
kenvandinesure15:26
bcurtiswxkenvandine, much thanks :)15:27
didrocksmhr3: yep, unmultiarching the gir file :)15:27
seb128didrocks, kenvandine, Sweetshark, Ursinha`, mterry, Laney, cyphermox_, tkamppeter: it's meeting time if anyone has a topic15:29
cyphermox_seb128: no topic for me.15:29
didrocksnothing for me15:29
kenvandinenothing from me...15:29
Sweetsharknothing here, spat it all to the wiki15:29
kenvandinebut every week i forget that my calendar entry is off by an hour :)15:29
seb128hehe15:30
mterrynope15:30
bcurtiswxThe official word on MRE for GNOME is still in the air/being talked about, right?15:31
seb128bcurtiswx, yes15:31
bcurtiswxseb128, ty15:31
seb128yw15:31
desrtaww15:38
desrtseb calls the meetings now :)15:38
Sweetsharkdesrt: yeah, isnt that cute?15:43
Sweetsharkdesrt: thankfully he is not doing it yet in french!15:43
kenvandine*yet* :-D15:43
desrtSweetshark: i'll note that the nationality of our leader did not change...15:43
cyphermox_next week...15:43
cyphermox_seb128: ^15:43
seb128right!15:44
Sweetsharkdesrt: you are canadian, so your are half french anyway, right?15:44
desrtSweetshark: my last name may have tipped you off to that, rather15:44
cyphermox_Sweetshark: outside of Quebec there are very few Canadians that actually speak french :)15:46
Sweetsharkcyphermox_: But I bet you can start a flamewar anywhere in canada with that topic.15:47
cyphermox_Sweetshark: I don't think so15:47
cyphermox_Sweetshark: I'd be tempted to say instead that I wouldn't want to be caught speaking french is some parts of Canada :)15:47
=== zyga is now known as zyga-afk
bcurtiswxseb128, it seems cimi wont' work on the unico , unassigned themself from bug #100054517:07
ubot2`Launchpad bug 1000545 in gtk+3.0 "Update to 3.5.2" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/100054517:07
seb128bcurtiswx, that was sorted since, he got allocated work time to do it next week17:08
bcurtiswxseb128, OK great. I'll get a bug for empathy 3.5.2 up then so I dont' forget anything.17:09
desrtmterry: thanks again17:11
mterrydesrt, worked? awesome17:11
* kenvandine heads afk for a couple hours, bbiab17:11
=== kenvandine is now known as kenvandine_afk
desrtsaved me at least a few hours of rewriting code :p17:11
bcurtiswxfor debian sync is there any reason I should avoid experimental vs. unstable ?17:57
ogra_if you are confident the quality of the package you pull from experimental is good enough for a release ...17:58
bcurtiswxogra_, great, thanks :)17:59
desrtlulz.  http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/umavd/iama_ubuntu_community_manager_at_canonical/18:06
seb128micahg, hey, how is firefox 13 looking? did the final version got testing yet? when will it be uploaded?19:36
micahgseb128: will be released later this evening, in the middle of testing19:37
seb128micahg, great, no issue so far with testing I guess then?19:37
micahglooks fine though overall19:37
seb128good19:37
stgrabermicahg: "will be released later this evening" <- but uploaded post-alpha1 right?19:39
micahgstgraber: quantal will skip the release :), 14b6 will be uploaded after the freeze19:39
stgrabermicahg: k19:41
=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away
bcurtiswxgood night all21:44
micahgstgraber: or it'll magically get uploaded to quantal-proposed :)21:59
* RAOF takes it that there's no meeting today?23:19
jasoncwarner_RAOF sorry, had a kid meltdown...just back now.23:28
jasoncwarner_TheMuso RAOF bryceh (robert is sick) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-06-0523:28
jasoncwarner_if you have agenda items, please add them.23:29
brycehnone23:29
jasoncwarner_and make sure you fill in fun details for the week!23:29
brycehdone23:29
jasoncwarner_thanks, bryceh23:33
TheMusoNone and done for me too.23:43
* TheMuso crawls back under his blanket. :p23:43
RAOF:)23:43
TheMusoIts somewhat windy here...23:45

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