[00:12] <rick_h_>  jrwren I think the proper response is to setup a new server that can perform ipv6 duties while the old one runs and then telling yourself you'll migrate the old one over
[00:12] <rick_h_> jcastro: intel 520 240gb? Any reason not to you know of?
[00:19] <jrwren> rick_h_: hahahaha.
[00:23] <jcastro> rick_h_: http://smackerelofopinion.blogspot.com/2012/06/intel-ssd-520-goodness.html
[00:23] <jcastro> that's the highest endorsement I can think of
[00:24] <rick_h_> jcastro: k, yea saw that. Ok, ordered then
[00:24] <rick_h_> hopefully that x230 comes out tomorrow like they're saying
[00:24] <rick_h_> and upgrade time wooo
[00:24] <jcastro> they really dropped prices on the current ones too
[00:25] <rick_h_> yea, $344 for the 240, about what I paid for my 160 2yr ago
[00:25] <jcastro> yeah
[00:25] <jcastro> sick
[00:26] <jcastro> I just plonked for 4x3TB spinners for my microserver
[00:26] <rick_h_> and I'm only at 65gb on this one, but no vms, and looking forward to putting those back into play
[00:26] <rick_h_> yea, saw that, crazy!
[00:26] <jcastro> so I'm pretty much maxed out my storage budget for a while
[00:26] <rick_h_> I looked at 2 3gb for my little nas, but ouch
[00:26] <rick_h_> so went with 2gb
[00:26] <jcastro> yeah
[00:26] <jcastro> but I needed the room since btrfs raid5 isn't around yet
[00:26] <rick_h_> then again, this laptop is going to be ouch when all said/done
[00:26] <rick_h_> they're starting up higher this time it sounds like
[00:27] <jcastro> so I needed to be able to copy from my 4x2tb to the 4x3tb but in RAID1
[00:27] <rick_h_> yea, that's awesome though
[00:27] <jcastro> pain in the ass
[00:27] <rick_h_> look forward to that down the road, think I'll still hang on ext4 for now, but nice to see it getting closer
[00:27] <jcastro> when it's all said and done and I have both sets of disks in RAID5.
[00:27] <jcastro> I will be epic
[00:27] <rick_h_> oh yea
[00:27] <rick_h_> you going to loan out openstack accounts on there :P
[00:27] <jcastro> 2 microservers, one 9TB, one 6tb
[00:28] <rick_h_> damn!
[00:28] <jcastro> and then I'll likely ceph them together as one mount point
[00:28] <jcastro> but that's the year-off plan
[00:28] <jrwren> wtf are you storing?
[00:28] <rick_h_> yea, well let me know what address to set my rsyncd off to :P
[00:28] <jcastro> jrwren: find out end of august!
[00:28] <rick_h_> hah
[00:28] <jcastro> rick_h_: it's too much, even esata direct takes overnight
[00:29] <jcastro> we need thunderbolt!
[00:29] <rick_h_> hah, that's the one thing I'm bummed on the new laptop, no esata port wtf!
[00:29] <rick_h_> though did order up a usb 3.0 thumbdrive to do the install from. Will be the fastest install evar!
[00:29] <rick_h_> usb3 install disk to intel 520...zoom
[00:29] <jcastro> heh
[00:30] <jcastro> I wish we had an option to just have a reinstall partition
[00:30] <rick_h_> thunderbolt, are we allowed to use that yet?
[00:30] <jcastro> like OEMs do
[00:30] <rick_h_> hah
[00:30] <rick_h_> naw, I've never needed that
[00:30] <jcastro> it'll be like what ... less than a gig
[00:30] <jcastro> I'd rather have that than remember to carry a USB stick
[00:30] <jcastro> the hw is out there, but expensive
[00:30] <jcastro> they messed up with the cables
[00:30] <jcastro> they end up being like a hundred bucks each
[00:31] <rick_h_> ugh
[00:31] <jcastro> so then everyone will go "USB3 is good enough"
[00:31] <jcastro> just like we did with firewire/USB
[00:31] <rick_h_> oh, do you know anything about widi ?
[00:31] <jcastro> nothing
[00:31] <rick_h_> yea, I stayed true to firewire for so long
[00:31] <rick_h_> but gave up...but then esata was going to make it all better, but can't get things with ports on them :(
[00:31] <rick_h_> hmm, I'll have to research. I bet we have an X guy somewhere I can bug about it maybe.
[00:32] <rick_h_> I love the idea of docking to my external displays without docking :)
[00:32] <jcastro> it's hard to find good esata
[00:32] <jcastro> and then you get one
[00:32] <jcastro> like on my microserver
[00:32] <jcastro> and the idiots make it only support one drive
[00:32] <rick_h_> doh!
[00:32] <jcastro> so I can't just connect my old enclosure to my new server
[00:32] <jcastro> I have to buy a new PCIE card, etc.
[00:32] <rick_h_> I just want to keep windows on an external drive and boot it occassionally via esata, why can't that work
[00:32] <rick_h_> waldo does it with his work laptop <3
[00:33] <jcastro> that's sweet
[00:33] <rick_h_> right, there's always the extra card options
[01:45] <snap-l> Evening
[02:37] <snap-l> Anyone have any experience with the Netgear WNR3500L?
[02:37] <snap-l> I'm attracted to it because it's marketed as an OSS router
[02:46] <greg-g> no, but let me know, I'm living with a crappy EL5200 or some such
[02:50] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBZY_loemUw
[10:41] <snap-l> good morning
[11:24] <rick_h_> morning
[11:32] <rick_h_> woot! ordered confirmed, est ship of the 11th
[11:32] <rick_h_> there was no overnight shipping option though, wtf
[11:32] <shakes808> good morning
[11:32] <rick_h_> I guess I'll have to wait for the slow train from china
[11:32] <rick_h_> morn
[11:33] <shakes808> rick_h_: either I logged in on in the middle of a conversation or randomness.
[11:33] <shakes808> lol
[11:34] <rick_h_> ordered the new laptop, cranky it didn't have expidited shipping option
[11:34] <rick_h_> so yea, middle of convo
[11:34] <rick_h_> Blazeix: so 4.0.4 landed, and the phone now detects the dock, but still doesn't fit nicely. YOu have to hold it down to get contact with the pins to get power/audio out (but it works now)
[11:35] <shakes808> gotchya.
[12:19] <rick_h_> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4067372 hah, love this only because I started reading cryptinomicon and was introduced to the term "F*** you money" in there
[12:22] <brousch> Hm, had to fix another computer this morning. These things are starting to show their age (6 years)
[12:23] <brousch> Mostly fans and power supplies luckily
[12:24] <brousch> Shoot, I didn't know Brandon Rhodes wrote a Python book.
[12:25] <brousch> http://rhodesmill.org/brandon/chapters/screen-scraping/
[12:25] <rick_h_> yea, wrote a couple I believe (well was listed as co-author or something)
[12:25] <brousch> I think I skipped that book because the title sounded uninsteresting
[12:25] <rick_h_> yea, it looks like a bit of a cookbook
[12:25] <rick_h_> I looked at it for some more recent twisted reading
[12:26] <rick_h_> but not much twisted really in there
[12:27] <snap-l> Good morning
[12:28] <MaskedDriver> morning
[12:28] <rick_h_> party!
[12:29] <MaskedDriver> anybody here use a BNC?
[12:30] <rick_h_> not that I'm aware of
[12:30] <brousch> I don't even know what it is
[12:30] <MaskedDriver> like ZNC or something like that (http://wiki.znc.in/ZNC)
[12:30] <MaskedDriver> and IRC Bouncer
[12:30] <MaskedDriver> an*
[12:31] <brousch> I use Pidgin. These geekers mostly use screen and irssi or weechat
[12:32] <rick_h_> hey, tmux and irrsi :P
[12:32] <MaskedDriver> I'm trying to get my vanity host set up but I'm assuming it's not going to happen cause I doubt my ISP will set up a dns forwarding record for me. Not as a residential customer w/ Dynamic IP
[12:32] <snap-l> I use tmux and weechat
[12:33] <snap-l> but I use it on my local machine
[12:33] <MaskedDriver> I use IceChat at work and mIRC on my gaming rig and XChat on my laptop
[12:35] <MaskedDriver> I set up a ZNC server last night but then realized it's not going to do what I want it to do
[12:35] <MaskedDriver> though keeping me logged in even when I D/C a client is a neat trick
[12:35] <MaskedDriver> keeps logging even if I'm not in, so no talking crap about me behind my back ;)
[12:36] <brousch> There are private channels for that
[12:36] <MaskedDriver> brousch: aye
[12:37] <brousch> #ubuntu-us-mi-gossip
[12:37] <snap-l> I thought it was #ubuntu-us-mi-brouch-keep-out?
[12:37] <MaskedDriver> though it appears it may use a lot of data. Between my file/web/dns/etc servers and the ZNC server I might reach the Uverse 250GB limit
[12:37] <snap-l> whoops
[12:37] <MaskedDriver> snap-l: lol
[12:39] <rick_h_> widox: dude! which dock did you get?
[12:41] <snap-l> http://www.badassoftheweek.com/lamaupin.html
[12:43] <rick_h_> be with me...I've setup the wife's laptop, in windows, to run JS test files from my dev machine to hopefully make this crap work in IE
[12:44] <MaskedDriver> ugh.. how far back do you have to be compatible with?
[12:44] <MaskedDriver> rick_h_: hopefully only back to IE8
[12:45] <brousch> rick_h_: Creating your own selenium test lab?
[12:45] <rick_h_> MaskedDriver: yea, IE8
[12:45] <rick_h_> brousch: basically I guess, or home made yeti cluster I guess
[12:45] <MaskedDriver> good. IE7 and IE6 have been the bane of my existance since I got into webdev
[12:48] <snap-l> rick_h_: ISn't that what VMs are for?
[12:48] <snap-l> Spin 'em up, knock 'em down
[12:48] <MaskedDriver> snap-l: ^ that's what I was gonna ask lol
[12:48] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, but I need a windows disk to do the vim, and a cd drive
[12:48] <rick_h_> I've got a windows install cd somewhere, I bought a legit copy a couple of years ago
[12:48] <MaskedDriver> no Technet subscription?
[12:49] <snap-l> I think I have the ISO that we used for our VMs from OU
[12:49] <brousch> Just make an ISO of your WinXP CD
[12:49] <MaskedDriver> then you can just get the ISOs and install from that
[12:49] <snap-l> not sure if it'll work with your key, though
[12:49] <rick_h_> ummmm, no. They don't tend to give MS lots of $$ at canonical :P
[12:49] <rick_h_> well this was a win7 disk
[12:49] <MaskedDriver> lol, well if they want you to be compatible with it, they should
[12:49] <rick_h_> I got it for using my damn mic input box for OLF
[12:49] <brousch> You can still do it
[12:49] <snap-l> rick_h_: Ah, right
[12:50] <rick_h_> but yea, my goal when the new laptop gets here is to run a full win7 or 8 VM on there
[12:50] <rick_h_> I'll find my code/windows disk. Just don't use the thing but once a year any more and it gets buried in the files somewhere
[12:50] <rick_h_> for today, it's the wife's laptop :)
[12:50] <brousch> oh wait, they have the free IE testing VMs
[12:50] <brousch> Let me find them. It's legit
[12:50] <snap-l> brousch: Do tell?
[12:51] <MaskedDriver> rick_h_: I actually really enjoy the Win8 experience. I was using it as my daily driver on my gaming rig until I got my Naga mouse and the drivers/synapse utility weren't compatible
[12:51] <rick_h_> blasphemy!
[12:51] <MaskedDriver> which part?
[12:52] <MaskedDriver> cause I know that several of the things I said in my last sentence could be interpretted as such
[12:52] <brousch> This looks like it http://www.webupd8.org/2011/09/test-websites-in-internet-explorer-9-8.html
[12:52] <rick_h_> yea, basically all of it
[12:52] <MaskedDriver> rick_h_: lol. I use what works, I don't put all my eggs into one basket
[12:52] <brousch> Oh shit, you might need 45GB of free space
[12:52] <rick_h_> brousch: cool, checking it out
[12:53] <rick_h_> ok, I have it to spare on this machine, and don't need IE7
[12:53] <rick_h_> the new ssd is a 240gb one so will be fine there
[12:53] <MaskedDriver> mother of god 240GB SSD? lucky
[12:53] <rick_h_> well it goes bigger, but 240 is the sweet price point
[12:53] <brousch> I think they last 30 days, but that page says you can get 60 out of them. Then you have to re-download them
[12:54] <rick_h_> paid about the same for that as my 160gb on this machine
[12:54] <MaskedDriver> OCZ?
[12:54] <rick_h_> I'm an intel fanboi, will be my 4th one
[12:54] <rick_h_> never had an issue in them
[12:54] <MaskedDriver> blasphemy ;)
[12:55] <brousch> These Sandisk SSDs are holding up so far, but are only a month or two old.
[12:56] <MaskedDriver> I still haven't taken the plunge into SSD. I've got a diamond to buy so I've been saving money like a mad man
[12:56] <brousch> It's so nice
[12:56] <rick_h_> I can't go back, had to get one for the desktop because it felt so slow
[12:57] <MaskedDriver> booting up in 5 seconds.. I'm sure it is
[12:57] <brousch> But sometimes I don't notice when I start to swap
[12:57] <rick_h_> swap? that was teh hard part. The x230 can have 16gb of ram. I so wanted to upgrade there
[12:57] <MaskedDriver> SWTOR will play like a dream with one lol
[12:57] <rick_h_> but I've never maxed the 8gb in this one, so saved the pennies
[12:58] <brousch> Right. I'm still on the old Dell, so sometimes I dip into swap for a GB when Chromium gets uppity
[12:58] <brousch> And sometimes I don't notice because the speed doesn't change much
[13:00] <rick_h_> good grief... http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=11575
[13:01] <MaskedDriver> seriously? you have to download each individal part file?
[13:02] <brousch> rick_h_: Thus the scripts that automate it for you
[13:02] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, but I get nervous running scripts so went looking at how to do it manually
[13:02] <MaskedDriver> yeah, but why can't they just tarball all of them into one?
[13:02] <brousch> rick_h_: The script is on github
[13:02] <snap-l> tar....ball... ?
[13:02] <rick_h_> brousch: yea
[13:02] <MaskedDriver> zip? lol
[13:03] <brousch> https://raw.github.com/xdissent/ievms/master/ievms.sh
[13:04] <brousch> MS should torrent those
[13:04] <MaskedDriver> brousch: tor....rent...?
[13:07] <snap-l> np: Bela Lugosi's Dead
[13:08] <brousch> Honestly, I didn't know he was still alive
[13:10] <snap-l> brousch: Oh FFS
[13:10] <brousch> eh?
[13:10] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bela_Lugosi's_Dead
[13:11] <MaskedDriver> lol
[13:11] <brousch> Ah, so I was right. He was already dead.
[13:12]  * brousch thinks unintentional trolls are still the best trolls
[13:21] <jrwren> how you liking stephenson?
[13:22] <jrwren> rick_h_: I'm trying to save up my "F*** you money" :)
[13:22] <jrwren> then I can be cool like Shuttleworth ;]
[13:23] <jrwren> MaskedDriver: doesn't freenode give you vanity host? see mine.
[13:23] <MaskedDriver> not by default I don't think.. what does mine show to you?
[13:24] <jrwren> snap-l: I got your bauhause ref.
[13:24] <jrwren> but I can't spell
[13:24] <rick_h_> jrwren: this book is a bit strange. I've read something else by him I thoguht I liked but blanking on what it was right now
[13:25] <snap-l> snow crash?
[13:25] <jrwren> MaskedDriver: i see your hostname. but I'm about/csharp/regular/jrwren
[13:25] <jrwren> snap-l: is our #ubuntu-us-mi channel legit enough that we can hand out masks?
[13:26] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, read that one and it was cool
[13:26] <MaskedDriver> yeah, I want mine to show idontlikethisgame.com
[13:26] <jrwren> oh.
[13:26]  * snap-l had a copy of Cryptonomicon on his Palm, but never finished it. Now I'm going to have to buy it again. :(
[13:26] <jrwren> i thought you just wanted to hide your source ip.
[13:26] <MaskedDriver> but I don't think that's possible the way I'm connecting through a BNC unless my ISP will set up a proper forwarding dns record
[13:26] <jrwren> if you want something custom, you'll have to go get it.
[13:27] <snap-l> jrwren: iirc, masks are by orgs.
[13:27] <jrwren> MaskedDriver: you just need the right ptr record, which most ISPs do not do.
[13:27] <jrwren> MaskedDriver: there is also ipv6 :)
[13:27]  * snap-l really doesn't know much about how to get those set up
[13:28] <MaskedDriver> jrwren: right, right... I mean, it's not like I do or say anything in IRC that I don't want people to know who I am or where I come from, but it'd be cool
[13:28] <MaskedDriver> I'd definitely have to go through my ISP.. you do a host 99.8.173.75 and its what you see here
[13:29] <MaskedDriver> and like I said earlier, I doubt they'd jump through hoops for a residential, dynamic IP user
[13:29] <jrwren> not likely
[13:30] <MaskedDriver> though they did open port 25 for me with little complaint, but DNS changes aren't as easy as opening a port
[13:36] <brousch> Have you guys been listening to Radio Free Python? http://radiofreepython.com/
[13:36] <MaskedDriver> if I listen to something like that while I'm at work, I'd fall asleep, then I'd get fired, then I'd come for you lol ;)
[13:37] <jrwren> if you only care about freenode and not other irc, you can get a cloak: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
[13:37] <jrwren> brousch: I've tried but its not in ITMS
[13:38] <brousch> jrwren: :P
[13:38] <brousch> It has an RSS feed. Get a read podcast client
[13:38] <brousch> real
[13:38] <rick_h_> brousch: listened to the first couple and stopped
[13:38] <MaskedDriver> jrwren: I'll take a look
[13:38] <brousch> OK, I just started on ep 7
[13:40] <MaskedDriver> you know of any network staffers off the top of your head jrwren?
[13:43] <jrwren> MaskedDriver: no, sorry
[13:44] <MaskedDriver> jrwren: np... it's not that big of a deal. Just something I thought would be pretty cool to do
[13:44] <MaskedDriver> then when I learned it was in my ISP's hands, I pretty much gave up
[13:44] <MaskedDriver> ZNC is cool, regardless
[13:45] <MaskedDriver> I can always use TOR or something if I really want to get rid of my IP address
[13:48] <jrwren> its great that you learned how DNS works :)
[13:48] <MaskedDriver> lol indeed
[13:49] <MaskedDriver> my DNS experience pretty much stopped outside of the LAN
[13:49] <jrwren> root servers and recursion is great to know
[13:49] <MaskedDriver> agreed
[13:49] <jrwren> *required knowledge* imo
[13:51] <MaskedDriver> yeah. it's useful stuff
[13:58] <shakes808> Here is another vid of the flying cat.... near the end it chases cows http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/322606/28/Artist-turns-dead-cat-into-flying-cat-copter
[14:20] <MaskedDriver> that was easy
[14:25] <jrwren> the little things about python annoy me. no ++ operator. really? but i want to incremement. How is this better?
[14:25] <jrwren> shakes808: that cat copter made me laugh a lot. i had to explain it to my girl though. She thought it wsa pretty weird.
[14:26] <MaskedDriver> jrwren can't you do counter += 1 ?
[14:27] <rick_h_> MaskedDriver: yes, he can but he likes his ++
[14:27] <rick_h_> jrwren: I think the thing is that there's no pre inc and such
[14:27] <rick_h_> so it's just explicit
[14:29] <jrwren> haha, just found a half dozen lines with ; at the end of 'em. i write that shit yesterday.
[14:29] <jrwren> rick_h_: yeah, i'm just old school I guess.
[14:29] <jrwren> +=1 works just fine. its just not what I wanted ot type.
[14:29] <brousch> jrwren: I try to use ++ every month or so
[14:29] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I know. It's one of the things I had to get used to
[14:30] <jrwren> i guess some parts of programming are muscle memory like editor command s;0
[14:30] <rick_h_> dammit IE8 sucks balls...remember when this was the 'improvement'?
[14:30] <rick_h_> jrwren: heh, definitely. I keep mixing up self, this in my work between python and JS
[14:30] <rick_h_> semicolons, var something, etc
[14:31] <jrwren> *nod*
[14:32] <brousch> I always forget semicolons in Javascript, but it works anyways. That hurts my mind
[14:35] <rick_h_> jslint!!!!
[14:35]  * rick_h_ gets the lint stick out of the closet
[14:35] <brousch> rick_h_: Are you using the free IE images from MS?
[14:35] <rick_h_> brousch: no, the download script failed on me
[14:35] <rick_h_> I did find my windows disks and key I bought, but new laptop will be here next week and don't want to have to go through two activations setup
[14:36] <brousch> Also it will take a day to install, download updates, reboot, install updates, reboot, install updates, reboot
[14:40] <jrwren> brousch: implicit semicolons in JS can be VERY dangerous, but you probably know this.
[14:58] <brousch> Rile up Rick post of the day: "... since I've started to believe that doctest is, despite all, generally better testing and documentation than unittests ever can be." http://blaag.haard.se/The-very-best-of-PyCon-was-a-REPL/
[14:59] <snap-l> *boom*
[15:06] <brousch> I see the mushroom cloud!
[15:07] <MaskedDriver> run
[15:07] <jrwren> yeah, that guy is looney.
[15:08] <jrwren> not I don't know if I should finish reading about bpython > ipython or not.
[15:08] <MaskedDriver> I enjoy my fingers too much to partake in any of this conversation
[15:09] <shakes808> jrwren: My buddy said "It's terrifying But also the most beautiful thing I've ever seen"
[15:09] <shakes808> lol
[15:09] <rick_h_> *sigh* this is why you need the downvote and your website goes away button
[15:09] <shakes808> Sorry for the late response, wasn't at my desk
[15:09] <MaskedDriver> lol
[15:09] <rick_h_> <3 bpython ... "you break cut'n paste to testable code example from the standard REPL"
[15:09] <rick_h_> DON"T CUTnPASTE CODE!!!
[15:10] <rick_h_> that's not how you 'run tests'
[15:10] <rick_h_> make run
[15:10] <rick_h_> ./setup.py test
[15:10] <rick_h_> nosetests src
[15:10] <snap-l> rick_h_: If it weren't for Cut 'n Paste, there would be no Javascript. ;)
[15:11] <jrwren> copy and paste is fine if its from a spike in repl into a file
[15:11]  * rick_h_ goes back to doing productive test writing in JS without copy/paste 
[15:12] <brousch> Someone has to make the code I copy and paste from. That someone is rick_h_
[15:12] <rick_h_> doctests are evil compounding piles of doom with state more polluted than the flint river
[15:13] <MaskedDriver> like the olentangy river in Columbus?
[15:13] <MaskedDriver> if that's the case, it's a problem
[15:13] <rick_h_> imo :)
[15:17] <MaskedDriver> what's your opinion on cherrypy?
[15:18] <snap-l> she's my
[15:18] <MaskedDriver> your.....?
[15:20] <jrwren> its minimal but reasonably mature.
[15:20] <shakes808> ...cherry pie
[15:20] <shakes808> Cool drink of water such a sweet surprise
[15:20] <shakes808> Taste so good make a grown man cry
[15:20] <shakes808> Sweet cherry pie, yeah
[15:20] <jrwren> its only does part of hte picture these days and maybe is not opinionated enough.
[15:20] <jrwren> you pick an ORM, hopefully that means SQLAlchemy
[15:20] <brousch> MaskedDriver: I like it. It was the first Python web framework I tried. It was the first that worked on Python3 and the first on Android
[15:20] <jrwren> but that means no integration with the ORM too, which is a bummer.
[15:20] <MaskedDriver> jrwren any suggestions?
[15:20] <jrwren> django :)
[15:20] <MaskedDriver> ok
[15:21] <jrwren> was j/k with djanog.
[15:21] <jrwren> nothing against django
[15:21] <jrwren> but I think pylons is most interesting these days.
[15:21] <brousch> Also, it is a production-ready wsgi server, so you don't have to muck about with different servers in dev and production
[15:21] <MaskedDriver> stop trolling ;) I haven't really dealt with python web frameworks so I'm gullible when it comes to this lol
[15:21] <MaskedDriver> I've dealt with Zope and Plone in the past
[15:21] <brousch> jrwren: Pylons is dead
[15:21] <rick_h_> /pylons/pyramid
[15:22] <MaskedDriver> so no on pylons?
[15:22] <jrwren> yeah, that.
[15:22] <jrwren> i consider it a rename.
[15:22] <rick_h_> it's vastly different code underneath though, but yea
[15:23] <jrwren> zope and plone, zomg, I never could figure them out.
[15:23] <MaskedDriver> jrwren not too difficult when you have to build a gigantic network of websites out of them
[15:23] <MaskedDriver> wait... that's wrong
[15:23] <MaskedDriver> it's very difficult when you have to build a gigantic network of websites out of them.
[15:23] <MaskedDriver> there that looks better
[15:24] <brousch> CherryPy is good for a small, focused project that doesn't need a lot of stuff the bigger frameworks give you
[15:24] <brousch> Otherwise look at Django or Pyramid
[15:24] <MaskedDriver> I just want something to refine my python skills
[15:25] <MaskedDriver> I need to get out of php
[15:25] <MaskedDriver> it's going to lead to a dead end quickly
[15:25] <MaskedDriver> (in my career)
[15:25] <brousch> Find something you want to build, then build it. then build it again with something else
[15:25] <rick_h_> flask seems to be the common starting point these days
[15:25] <brousch> Flask is nice
[15:26] <brousch> Like CherryPy, but with a community and plugins
[15:27] <MaskedDriver> k thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into it
[15:51] <nullspace> MaskedDriver: if only you knew the power of the Java side
[15:52] <nullspace> except swing, stay the hell away from that
[15:54] <nullspace> and awt too, that's pretty bad as well
[15:55] <jrwren> haha.
[15:55] <jrwren> well, its certainly evil.
[15:55] <jrwren> it runs on a very evil thing called a JVM controlled by a very evil company known as oracl.
[15:55] <nullspace> waht do you think the ee in j2ee stands for
[15:55] <jrwren> EXTRA EVIL!
[15:55] <nullspace> evil edition
[15:56] <nullspace> exagerately evil?
[15:57] <nullspace> been meaning to play with Qt Jambi though
[15:57] <rick_h_> oh oh oh, can I play? evil enraged!
[15:58] <snap-l> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/Java-Evil-Edition-orfjackal_net-lores.png
[15:58] <nullspace> didn't you heard though that oracle lost ?
[15:58] <rick_h_> doh, snap-l wins, he brought visuals
[15:58] <nullspace> hear even
[15:58] <brousch> I need that on a sticker
[15:59] <rick_h_> I hear they're still in business...and still in a ton of control, and java still sucks :P
[15:59] <jrwren> yes, oracle lost. YAYA
[15:59] <jrwren> its still a very poor langauge on features.
[15:59] <snap-l> Java is like the Katamari Damacy of languages
[15:59] <snap-l> it started off very small, and then acquired other features and platforms
[16:00] <snap-l> The core of the language was pretty nice in 1.1, but it kept getting bigger and bigger
[16:00] <snap-l> until the barrier to entry to do anything with it got so high
[16:01] <nullspace> I think that is an imginary boundry your projecting
[16:01] <snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/682128/how-to-get-started-with-java-web-development
[16:01] <nullspace> oh well yeah why the fuck would you want to build a a java weba pplet
[16:02] <nullspace> that's just painful
[16:02] <snap-l> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Getting_started_with_Java_ME
[16:03] <nullspace> we went with Java because of the documentation and it's intgration ease with POI, Cayenne, Solr, and a number of other libraries we use or want to use
[16:03] <snap-l> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/topics/newtojava/overview/index.html
[16:03] <jcastro> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4069164
[16:03] <jcastro> ^^^ fishing for upvotes
[16:04] <snap-l> nullspace: And that's fine. If it works for your ecosystem, great
[16:04] <snap-l> Every time I think about Java development, I feel like i have to eat a mountain to shit out a molehill
[16:04] <rick_h_> jcastro: upped
[16:05] <snap-l> like the old joke: how to make $1 million in the publishing industry
[16:05] <nullspace> snap-l: I'd feel that way with any language choice for the size of our project
[16:05] <snap-l> step one: start with $100 million
[16:06] <nullspace> though honestly flying saucer saved use months of work exporting to a pdf
[16:06] <snap-l> nullspace: Again, different needs
[16:06] <snap-l> If you're happy with what you have, that's awesome. well done. Party on.
[16:07] <snap-l> Just don't expect me to sing the praises of Java any time soon. my days of singing for Java are long gone
[16:09] <nullspace> I've accepted that
[16:09] <snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2007/09/22/hello-world-why-java-never-was-my-language-of-choice/
[16:09] <nullspace> I've defended python from python haters
[16:34] <snap-l> rick_h_: Now you get to work with Mark Ramm. ;)
[16:34] <snap-l> Which is awesome.
[16:35] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, he's over in another area, but maybe down the road
[16:36] <snap-l> Yeah, that's how it was for me at GKNT
[16:44] <snap-l> http://learningthreejs.com/blog/2012/06/05/3d-physics-with-three-js-and-physijs/
[16:45] <_stink_> that link made my firefox unhappy :P
[16:47] <snap-l> um, sorry?
[16:48] <_stink_> i'll choose to blame firefox.
[16:48] <snap-l> Good, because I wasn't taking any of it. :)
[16:48] <_stink_> hehe
[17:17] <brousch> jrwren: A recap of a Timezone talk at DjangoCon.eu (which is going on now) http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/2012/06/05/its_about_time.html
[17:28] <jrwren> snap-l: i disagree with your assertion. the core of the java language was not pretty nice in 1.1
[17:29] <MaskedDriver> java? pretty nice?
[17:36] <jrwren> i'm not a python hater, but I'll cmoplain about its warts all day long, just like I will about C#
[17:36] <jrwren> java on the other hand, has more warts than smoothness, so I'm a hater :)
[17:37] <MaskedDriver> jrwren: what language do you prefer? C++?
[17:37] <jrwren> at this point, I don't htink I have preference.
[17:38] <rick_h_> all languages have plus/minus. There's a reason that cool things like lucene, etc are in Java
[17:38] <rick_h_> hadoop, jenkins, lots of big java projects out there
[17:38] <jrwren> rick_h_: other than that the original devs didn't know any better?
[17:39] <rick_h_> I think it's more than that though. Most things, if good idea, are just stolen/ported
[17:39] <rick_h_> see django
[17:39] <rick_h_> the fact that they're big projects, with big communities, moving forward shows there must be something there that works
[17:39] <rick_h_> android as well
[17:39] <jrwren> wtf, people congrating mark ramm on twitter, but mark hasn't tweeted in long time.
[17:39] <rick_h_> everyone loves to say android is linux, but it's more java than linux tbh
[17:39] <rick_h_> he did tweet today, joined canonical
[17:40] <brousch> rick_h_: Get yourself botbrew and you'll change your mind about Android Linux
[17:40] <rick_h_> https://twitter.com/markramm/status/210044248496668672
[17:40] <jrwren> oh, i need to learn how to use twitter :)
[17:40] <jrwren> rick_h_: i agree completely.
[17:40] <brousch> Heh, I forgot about the Mark Ramm thing. My secret SF inside source told us about it a few weeks ago
[17:41] <rick_h_> :)
[17:42] <brousch> Can someone explain to me why this is awesome? https://github.com/jorgebastida/glue
[17:43] <rick_h_> brousch: beause doing sprites is a pita?
[17:43] <rick_h_> and sprites are awesome
[17:43] <brousch> They are?
[17:43] <rick_h_> yes, go look at your network panel in your browser and count how many .png .gif .jpg files come down
[17:43] <MaskedDriver> brousch: yep
[17:43] <rick_h_> replace all those with 1 http request and you're happy camper
[17:43] <rick_h_> and it's cached, everyone has it cached just by needing one image in a sprite
[17:44] <jrwren> FAST
[17:44] <Blazeix> also no flash of downloaded hover content
[17:44] <brousch> So you plop all the little icons onto one big image, and then split it up client side?
[17:44] <rick_h_> Blazeix: +1
[17:44] <rick_h_> brousch: no, you make them backgrounds and size it to the icon size
[17:44] <jrwren> brousch: yup, yslow will recommend this.
[17:44] <Blazeix> brousch: you use css background viewports
[17:44] <rick_h_> then you move the background an offset to center over the image you want displayed
[17:44] <brousch> Seems hackish
[17:44] <Blazeix> shameless plug, a simple site with css sprites is my own site :) http://fuqua.io/
[17:45] <rick_h_> https://launchpad.net/+icing/rev15353/icon-sprites.png
[17:45] <_stink_> incrementing your counter by one right now, Blazeix
[17:46] <jrwren> 64x22031 WTF
[17:46] <Blazeix> also amazon.com http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/gno/beacon/BeaconSprite-US-01._V141013396_.png
[17:46] <rick_h_> didn't I tell you? generating sprites is a pita, so we cheat
[17:47] <rick_h_> one image wide, stacked veritically so we only have to offset Y
[17:47] <rick_h_> brousch: http://fringefocus.com/2010/tutorial/css-sprites-theyre-awesome-use-them
[17:47] <rick_h_> seems like an ok read at quick glance
[17:48] <Blazeix> another good read is http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sprites
[17:48] <rick_h_> ah yea, should have thought to check them
[17:48] <brousch> So like javascript combine and min for icons
[17:48] <rick_h_> in a sense sure
[17:49] <brousch> This gives me an idea
[17:49] <jrwren> make the rails asset pipeline do it for you?
[17:50] <rick_h_> heh, there you go
[17:50] <rick_h_> but I don't want my web framework doing all that magic for me ugh
[17:50] <brousch> At last year's BarCampGR I had the digital session grid split up from a photo, so it ended up being like 30 images, which was kind of annoying to download. Maybe it could be done much more efficiently with something like this
[17:51] <jrwren> nor should it. it is a waste of cycles to do it every request. do it at build time and be done
[17:51] <rick_h_> jrwren: +1 make ftw!
[17:55] <rick_h_> yay! more 4g in MI. Traverse city. Could have used that a couple weeks ago
[17:58] <brousch> Thanks for the sprite education
[17:58] <MaskedDriver> lol I'm in TC this weekend
[17:58] <MaskedDriver> score
[17:58] <rick_h_> brousch: np, I know all this and still dont use them but font icons
[17:58] <brousch> Well it does look like a PITA to make and maintain them compared to separate images
[17:59] <rick_h_> MaskedDriver: not sched until 21st: http://www.androidcentral.com/verizon-announces-new-lte-markets-indiana-michigan
[17:59] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, so that's why a tool that automates putting together and generating the css rules rocks
[18:05] <MaskedDriver> le'sigh
[18:11] <nullspace> the dungeon collapsed.... stupid screen
[18:46] <brousch> MaskedDriver: Oh! We totally left out a Python web framework you might want to check out. Web2Py!
[18:47] <MaskedDriver> brousch: thanks
[18:47] <MaskedDriver> infoworld's 2012 technology of the year award winnter
[18:48] <brousch> It's one of the few things that could make rick_h_ explode more readily than Django or doctests
[18:49] <brousch> So it's got that going for it, which is fun
[18:49] <MaskedDriver> he doesn't like it?
[18:49] <rick_h_> It's right up there with doctests
[18:50] <rick_h_> if you want to do python wrong...have at it. Or, just pick up PHP and be done with it
[18:50] <MaskedDriver> rick_h_: you're an angry man who hates everything awesome ;)
[18:50] <Blazeix> except for Awesome
[18:50] <rick_h_> pretty much, didn't take you that long to figure out. You're kind of smart :)
[18:50] <rick_h_> Awesome is awesome!
[18:50] <rick_h_> http://awesome.naquadah.org/
[18:50] <MaskedDriver> lol thanks, I'm pretty good at picking up social queues
[18:51] <Blazeix> yikes, web2py's website sure looks... corporate.
[18:51] <rick_h_> sorry, getting bitter. Doing JS tests that fail and getting them into IE
[18:51] <MaskedDriver> too bad you're not working with Django or Doctests.. that'd be much more fun
[18:51] <MaskedDriver> you should switch to jQuery too... stat
[18:52] <rick_h_> it is django :P
[18:52] <MaskedDriver> lol oh
[18:52] <rick_h_> but not directly atm, indirect front end
[18:52] <MaskedDriver> well s*** it's less funny since that's the case :(
[18:52] <rick_h_> did you know that node events don't fire unless the node is in the dom...doh
[18:52] <MaskedDriver> I did not
[18:52] <MaskedDriver> I thought JS could find things that weren't there
[18:53] <MaskedDriver> I'm a nub though
[18:53] <rick_h_> it's a particular mix of library, test, etc code that just made me discover this
[18:53] <MaskedDriver> when you could have just looked at the DOM and been done with it lol
[18:54] <MaskedDriver> I lost all respect for awesome
[18:54] <MaskedDriver> read the entire site front page and found this: This gonna be LEGEN... wait for it... DARY!
[18:55] <rick_h_> oh come on, great show! :P
[18:55] <MaskedDriver> anywho, I have a meeting with GPS tracking folks for a big project we have going on in the next couple months
[18:55] <MaskedDriver> be back soon
[18:55]  * MaskedDriver is now away - Reason : Meeting
[18:57] <brousch> This is what reminded me of Web2Py https://github.com/mdipierro/workflow
[19:22] <rick_h_> man, great read: http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/5/3062611/palm-webos-hp-inside-story-pre-postmortem
[19:22] <rick_h_> despite how it turned out, wish I could have been on that ride
[19:32] <rick_h_> boooo http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop
[19:37] <snap-l> rick_h_: Boo as in it's not loading?
[19:38] <brousch> OMG FIX IT NOW
[20:04]  * MaskedDriver is no longer away : Gone for 1 hour 8 minutes 21 seconds
[20:05] <brousch> Thank you for that report
[20:12] <jrwren> away messages are generally frowned upon in irc
[20:14] <MaskedDriver> didn't realize I had it on sorry
[20:14] <brousch> Silliness
[20:15] <MaskedDriver> new IRC client had it on by default
[20:16] <Milyardo> New IRC client? Didn't know a new version of irssi came out
[20:16] <MaskedDriver> lol
[20:22] <jrwren> unless its a remote security vuln, i don't think i'd care if new irssi came out :)
[20:43] <jrwren> ooh shiney! http://pypi.python.org/pypi/SymbolType
[21:15] <greg-g> wait, really, a new version of irssi?
[21:15] <greg-g> I thought it was done
[21:19] <Blazeix> no, not really. no new irssi.
[21:20] <Blazeix> however, there is a brand-spanking-new version of weechat.
[21:24] <shakes808> night all
[21:25] <greg-g> g'night? it is only 5:25!
[21:25]  * greg-g is in DC, hence EDT
[21:53] <snap-l> greg-g: DC? Say hello to the government for me
[21:55] <brousch> BLOW EM UP!
[23:42] <rick_h_> greg-g: hey, say hi to my VA family while you're out there
[23:42] <rick_h_> they're on the app trail so maybe you can get a day hike in :P