[01:28] micahg: Didn't Kubuntu skip Alpha 1? [01:28] Should be just stuff going to proposed that affects an image. [01:28] ScottK: I thought Riddell said that you were trying for i386/amd64 [01:29] Are we? I lost track. [01:29] Not sure the point without 4.4.80. [01:29] Maybe that got uploaded when I wasn't looking. [01:33] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001305.html [01:33] OK. === ScottK changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - Now With Extra Gray | Council Nominations Open - See http://goo.gl/zUghQ | Bug hunting: http://ur1.ca/8kam4 | Packaging TODO (4.8.80/4.8.4): http://notes.kde.org/kubuntu-ninjas | meeting scheduling http://www.doodle.com/xxxd4x2mkpp6hifr [03:48] ew: [03:48] terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::bad_alloc' [03:48] what(): std::bad_alloc [03:48] mah krunner D: [03:49] probably an invalid pixmap cache :s [03:50] hmm, that's probably what eagles had [03:55] not an invalid kde pixmap cache [03:55] ew: http://paste.kde.org/493934/ [03:59] I enabled compositing and now it doesn't crash, go figure === jalcine is now known as Jacky [05:10] wah [05:10] kwin to blame? [06:29] hey agateau i have an interesting development. i purged kubuntu-desktop using kubuntu-* and it reverted me to the normal kde desktop and the kubuntu-desktop package is is not even installed so I have no idea how i even have a normal kde desktop === fabo_ is now known as fabo === drdanz is now known as Tezcatzontecatl === Tezcatzontecatl is now known as drdanz [08:05] eagles0513875: don't remove kubuntu-desktop, that makes no sense [08:06] somebody please reword the description of kubuntu-desktop, it is quite misleading and a source of problems to users [08:08] Mamarok: in what way ? [08:08] it's a meta package, it used to be clearly defined as a meta package [08:08] is it no longer ? [08:09] the "it is safe to remove" should be more explicit about what will change for the user, right now it is not clear to the user it will remove stuff [08:10] it is a meta package, but if you remove it it will remove quite a few things and you will not have all kde core components anymore [08:10] it should not be removed by the user [08:10] it never used to actually remove anything, when did it start actually having package removal depenencies ? [08:11] well, it does [08:11] I don't doubt it [08:11] no ides who changed what, but now it is certainly not something that should be removed [08:11] idea* [08:11] and I agree with you, it should not remove anything [08:12] I wonder if the same is now true of ubuntu-desktop and xubuntu-desktop for example [08:12] removing kubuntu-desktop doesn't remove anything [08:13] but it does mean you won't get new packages in updates that are needed especially on release upgrades [08:13] words to describe that are fiddly [08:13] Riddell: well, then this should be said [08:13] Riddell: the easiest is to not say it is safe to remove [08:14] but instead: if you remove this package you will no longer get updates for some components needed in release upgrades [08:14] probably that was there when we had everything depend on it and it got removed if you didn't like one app [08:14] now a lot of apps are recommends rather than depends [08:14] so I think it'll be safe to just remove that line [08:14] currently we have a lot of users who emoved that and run into problems [08:15] also why does it talk about netbook when this is clearly the desktop package? [08:16] isn't kubuntu-netbook doing the netbook stuff [08:17] anyway, I need to run to the market, bbl [08:21] kubuntu-netbook is a transitional package, it can be removed [08:27] nuff automation larks, I should get on this 4.9 beta today [08:28] oh and alpha 1 too [08:47] Mamarok: well it seems to have fixed a really annoying issue i was having yet i still have fully functioning desktop, granted its not the netbook version, [08:50] Riddell: whats the purpose of having a netbook layout when the normal kde desktop look works just fine and actually imho performs better [08:51] I would disagree [08:52] how come? === Stecchino_ is now known as Stecchino [09:10] ooh quantal works! [09:21] Riddell: it works smashingly minus the netbook stuff which is broken out the backside atm [09:52] more alpha testing needed but I'm happy with the current images http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/221/builds [09:55] Thu 14th at 16:00 seems like best time for a meeting even if it is a week away [10:35] why is the kdeobservatory widget in an own package? [10:36] dunno, extra dependency maybe? [10:36] ah right, it depends in libqwt6 === Blizzzek is now known as Blizzz [10:52] cor debian is pretty far behind in kde sc packaging [11:10] Is there a reason we arent donating ours? [11:19] Riddell: are you sure you didn't get it wrong with the doodle result? [11:20] Tue 12th at 8pm shows more attendees [11:25] Mamarok: sabdfl added himself and I think it's well worth having him since currently Kubuntu needs some love from canonical management [11:25] ah, right, didn't see that his is missing there [11:45] User asks why ubuntu-restricted-extras can't be made a dep of amarok https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=301264 [11:45] KDE bug 301264 in Playlists/Saved Playlists "Problem with IDs when draging playlist into the qeue" [Major,Resolved: waitingforinfo] [11:46] hm building all of kubuntu on a Raspberry Pi... that could take a few years ;) [11:46] If amarok is not in the default install, would that be possible? [11:46] debfx: why not cross compile? [11:47] idk, someone on the kubuntu-devel lists is asking how to do that [11:48] setting up a cross compile certainly is not trivial [11:48] so compiling on device might make sense [11:48] Stecchino: it's kubuntu-restricted-extras he wants and the whole point of the package is it needs to be kept off the CD and in multiverse [11:48] I believe that need to be done for packaging anyway [11:48] Riddell: yeah, thought so [11:48] but what about in the beta ppa? [11:49] Stecchino: he should be prompted to install it when he starts amarok but I don't know how well that works in practice [11:49] in any case, I need to fix the bug with restricted-codecs-installer [11:49] Seems like i broke it [11:49] ppa packages should be as close as possible to archive, divergance makes them unmaintainable [11:51] I C [11:53] one of (k)ubuntu's values is to not automatically install non-free software. that should apply to "official" PPAs as well. === Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - Now With Extra Gray | Council Nominations Open - See http://goo.gl/zUghQ | Bug hunting: http://ur1.ca/8kam4 | Packaging TODO (4.8.80/4.8.4): http://notes.kde.org/kubuntu-ninjas | meeting: Thu 14th 16:00UTC [13:29] hey agateau [13:32] I just added a patch to akonadi maildir and broke notes again Oo [13:36] apachelogger: sadly its a vicious circle fix one thing to sadly break something else [13:36] well [13:36] the ting is [13:36] I fixed notes in another patch already [13:36] the error it spits out should not happen at all [13:36] *should* [13:42] apachelogger: i found out somethign rather interesting to the bug i was experiencing [13:43] hey eagles0513875 [13:43] agateau: not sure if you saw my update to the bug but i purged kubuntu-desktop and did kubuntu-* in 2 different purges and i ended up with the standard kde desktop that you would find on a desktop pc [13:43] and everything is working just fine oddly enough [13:44] eagles0513875: weird [13:45] agateau: one thing though that mamarok mentioned earlier is that with out the meta package i dont get any notifications of updates [13:45] eagles0513875: this is true [13:46] agateau: was about to try and reinstall kubuntu-desktop meta package and see if i stay with the current desktop or the netbook version is reinstalled [13:47] kubuntu-desktop is not the net book meta package [13:47] as of right now the standard desktop is rock solid the netbook version isnt. Riddell also mentioned that the kubuntu netbook package is a dummy package if im not mistaken? [13:47] earlier riddle was saying there was a transitional package for the netbook setup [13:47] ikonia: then why was it installed on my system initiall [13:48] eagles0513875: it still uses the same base components [13:48] so is the kubuntu netbook package granted its transitional still a meta package? [13:48] granted it's transitional ? [13:48] kubuntu-netbook is a meta package if that's what you are asking [13:49] eagles0513875: it has always been a meta package, but it's now deprecated, you can remove it [13:50] ok what package should i reinstall to get the netbook desktop back [13:50] eagles0513875: you do know that this is the -devel channel, do you? Please keep user questions to #kubuntu [13:50] eagles0513875: join the support channels [13:51] 14:47 hiya, could you go add the Kubuntu changes to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview ? [13:51] JontheEchidna, debfx, yofel_, apachelogger, other useful pacakging people: anything good in the syncs? ^^ [13:52] Riddell: amaork2.6beta [13:55] Riddell: kde 483 [13:55] Error: KDE bug 483 could not be found [13:56] Riddell: nothing intersting other than that [13:56] in quantal-changes anyway [13:57] Riddell: oh, btw, if you see d_ed kindly poke him into making the new ktp release happening so we can get started with the QA bus ;) [13:57] * apachelogger answers rpi mail [13:57] the QA bus? [13:58] Riddell: testing [13:58] we promised supreme testing exposure to ensure a smooth initial deployment in quantal [13:59] ah QA of kde-telepathy in quantal? [13:59] well, for quantal [13:59] QA in quantal and precise [13:59] + call for testing [14:50] ScottK: hi, did you find time to test the massif-visualizer package on your arm system? [15:32] JontheEchidna: jtechidna: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1027034/ objections? [15:32] apachelogger: rationale on that? [15:33] JontheEchidna: login -> U HAZ UPDATES && APPORT GO SCREW U && AKONADI GO SCREW U && FILE TRANSFER &&.... [15:33] updates really do not need to be displayed rihgt after login [15:34] 5 minutes might be a tad too long, but that is subject to change based on real world expierence ^^ [15:34] maybe wait a minute instead [15:35] JontheEchidna: 2 [15:35] k [15:35] so the system settles in [15:35] i.e. on first start nepomuk bloat will hog the cpu for at least a minute or two [15:36] god knows why consideirng the home is empty [15:42] http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/06/plasma-desktopQv2367.png [15:42] apachelogger, it's just waiting for something to happen, virtuoso -t ..since I don't need nepomuk , it and akonadi are both disabled here [15:42] Oo [15:42] h,? [15:42] hm? [15:42] virtuoso should not be started without nepomukserver.... [15:50] apachelogger, that's not what I meant ...virtuoso -t is usually the cpu hogger [15:50] not only that thing [15:51] if nepomuk is enabled [15:51] uha [15:52] stupid apport [15:53] desktop_file = apport.fileutils.find_package_desktopfile(self.cur_package) [15:53] wish there wasn't the negative option with the kdepim apps ..I don't use most of them [15:53] negative option? [15:54] installed by default , so I have to disable them if i don't use them [15:54] don't quite compute [15:54] what's wrong with kdepim? [15:55] if we did not install defaults because people would need to disable them if they don't want it we coud just as well ship a kernel only :P [15:55] being a home user , i don't need most of kdepim [15:56] JontheEchidna: http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/06/plasma-desktopMJ2367.png u broke my apport [15:56] BluesKaj: u don't read emails? [15:58] I use thunderbird [15:59] so it is a matter of defaults not of whether you are a home user :P [15:59] * apachelogger finds kmail too bloated anyway [15:59] way too many buttons for me === rdieter is now known as rdieter_work === rdieter_laptop is now known as rdieter [16:01] afiestas: could you try https://launchpad.net/~apachelogger/+archive/staging/+files/kdepim-runtime-dbg_4.8.3-0ubuntu0.1%2Bppa1_i386.deb please [16:01] apachelogger, don't get me wrong i would like to use kmail etc , but it's constant segfaulting drove me away [16:01] that seems to fix akonadi screw ups for me [16:01] BluesKaj: segfaulting? [16:01] KMail deos many thing wrong but segfaulting isn't one of them [16:01] at least not in my computers [16:01] * apachelogger had still notifications with it tho yesterday [16:01] afiestas, wanna bet :) [16:02] so I wouldn't hold my breath that it gets through verification [16:02] BluesKaj: I wanna crash reports [16:02] and backtraces [16:02] well , it did here [16:02] + [16:03] reports should go to bugs.kde.org [16:03] ooh I've reached the end of the simple packages for 4.8.80 [16:03] if not, they are useless (upstream developers don't read them) [16:03] now the fiddly ones to go [16:07] oh, Riddell, while you wait for building ... could you try to verify that my kdepim-runtime package does not give bogus akonadi errors on kontact start https://launchpad.net/~apachelogger/+archive/staging/+files/kdepim-runtime-dbg_4.8.3-0ubuntu0.1%2Bppa1_i386.deb [16:07] JontheEchidna: bah firefox installer in quatzal just errors saying "sorry the packaging system can not be initialised" [16:07] apachelogger: kdepim isn't done yet, bulldog98's name is down for that [16:08] Riddell: with precise then :P [16:08] apachelogger: precise is old school, I don't use that any more [16:09] lol [16:09] apachelogger: you fixed the .local issue? [16:09] looks like it [16:09] hard to tell with akonadi [16:09] apachelogger: shall we test on ec2? [16:10] how can you test on ec2? [16:10] * apachelogger is all for testing ^^ [16:10] Riddell: bug 1000508 [16:10] Launchpad bug 1000508 in gcc-4.7 (Ubuntu) "PendingMessages member variable of APT's GlobalError class initializes as "true" with -std=c++11" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1000508 [16:10] start an ec2 machine, install kubuntu-desktop, start vnc, test [16:10] the toolchain people seem rather unresponsive [16:11] Riddell: well, I have it in a VM [16:11] JontheEchidna: gosh that's a surprisingly hardcore issue [16:11] Riddell: but just because it works here does not mean it fixes the issue ... akonadi is fun like that [16:11] yeah, it was a pain to figure out what was happening :( [16:11] I have a workaround in git, though. (don't compile the worker with c++11) [16:12] hmm [16:12] JontheEchidna: 2 minutes seems good enough [16:12] plus much better UX [16:12] * apachelogger ponders SRUing [16:18] afiestas, the segfault that i reported about kmail were all shoved aside due to duplications , but kmail continues to segfault here ..I'm not being critical ..i'd like to use kmail , but it's impossible for me to use [16:21] oh well, I can't get the konact issue anymore [16:22] Riddell, afiestas: if you could some additional testing that would be good, I'll then push it to proposed and hope it gets thrugh verifiction ^^ [16:23] unike the ppa2 package ppa1 at least does not make matters worse ^^ [16:23] BluesKaj: didn't pretent to say you were being critical, just pointing the fact that if we don't push upstream they won't fix anything [16:23] apachelogger: bit busy right now, in 30min or so [16:23] afiestas, https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=286307 [16:23] KDE bug 286307 in general "Kmail crash (QNetworkAccessHttpBackend::replyDownloadMetaData, QNetworkAccessHttpBackend::qt_static_metacall, QObject::event)" [Crash,New: ] [16:23] yeah, moving on meanwhile === dantti is now known as dantti_away [16:43] BluesKaj: fail to reproduce [16:45] apachelogger, what else is new ? :P [16:46] instructions would be good [16:46] apachelogger: vnc://ubuntu@ec2-107-21-151-241.compute-1.amazonaws.com:5901 [16:46] is up [16:46] apachelogger: what do I do to test? [16:47] Riddell: fire up kontact [16:47] apachelogger, usually segfaults on my setup when trying to move emails into other folders or when trying to delete emils [16:47] apachelogger: I already have a ~/.local does that matter? [16:47] nope [16:48] the issue is not about .local as such but the sub dirs the resources want to be there [16:48] BluesKaj: imap or pop? [16:48] apachelogger: does not exist notification! [16:48] \o/ [16:49] groovy [16:49] Riddell: maybe try a couple more times [16:49] apachelogger: starting kontact more times? [16:49] when debugging I noticed that some of the notifications are highly timing dependent [16:49] what will that do? [16:49] Riddell: with new users [16:49] or logout and wipe the home clean [16:50] apachelogger: well we know the bug exists, what should I do to test your fix? [16:50] install the package [16:51] and start kontact multiple times on clean homes [16:51] apachelogger, both [16:51] if no notifications appear we can assume it works [16:51] BluesKaj: fun [16:51] still can't reproduce tho [16:53] apachelogger, oh well , I can live with thunderbird, besides I'm not a big fan of akonadi and nepomuk anyway [16:54] the socialist way to look at this is that by helping getting it fixed you make other people happy [16:54] :-) [16:54] <---not a socialist [16:55] blueskaj: weirdo :P [16:55] I help enough [17:00] apachelogger: Did you still want -bugs forwarded here? [17:00] (if I understood my irc logs properly) [17:00] jussi, nice :/ [17:00] blueskaj? [17:02] jussi, ? [17:05] agateau: I did. It built fine and I pinged you. I guess you missed the highlight. [17:07] ryanakca: yus [17:24] yofel_: shadeslayer cannot help packaging as I am still waiting on data he is supposed to collect [17:25] shadeslayer: also the data better be worth waiting a month [17:25] ... [17:25] apachelogger: ETA is at most one week on that [17:26] I need to sort some visa stuff for akademy as well ... [17:26] k [17:30] apachelogger: using kdepim-runtime 0.1+ppa2 from your staging PPA the error still occurs [17:33] apachelogger: this was a task from the 12.04 UDS right? [17:36] Riddell: ppa1 please [17:36] ppa2 regressed though I have no idea why [17:37] shadeslayer: nah, was before [17:37] at some meeting IIRC [17:37] the one wer we talked about tooling :P [17:37] heh [17:37] I doubt that there are logs [17:37] *shrug* [17:38] well ... on irc.ubuntu.com ... but I'll have to wget everthing for the past 6 months and grep them [17:38] *irclogs.ubuntu.com [17:39] * apachelogger grabs some lunch [17:46] kubotu: newpackage kile 2.1.2 [17:46] Package kile already exists! [17:46] whut [17:46] oh [17:46] kubotu: newversion kile 2.1.2 [17:46] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1009626 [17:46] Launchpad bug 1009626 in kile (Ubuntu) "Please update kile to 2.1.2" [Undecided,New] [17:50] apachelogger: http://games.adultswim.com/robot-unicorn-attack-evolution-twitchy-online-game.html [17:52] apachelogger: same error with 4:4.8.3-0ubuntu0.1+ppa1 :( [17:53] hrm, how does one enable multitouch support in kubuntu [17:53] ? [17:53] jussi: no idea I'm afraid [17:53] :/ I have one but no idea how to use it [17:54] jussi: install utouch (it is not by default in either ubuntu spin) [17:54] its single touch atm [17:54] then for kde integration, touchegg [17:54] afiestas: oh, cool, thanks [17:54] jussi: If more is needed to enable multitouch, cnd can probably tell you. [17:55] ScottK: ok, thanks for the tip [17:55] brb [17:55] afiestas, you shouldn't need to install utouch, it's a meta package that gives you some developer headers [17:55] that's all [17:55] jussi, what are you looking to do? [17:55] * afiestas bought an apple touchapd thing, expects to bring multitouch to its better state in kde [17:55] cnd: with ubuntu (not kubuintu) I needed it [17:56] afiestas, you still don't need utouch installed [17:56] unless you plan on developing with the utouch libraries [17:56] then, what do I need exactly for the same time? [17:56] on ubuntu, all the runtime libraries are installed already because they are needed for unity [17:56] because wahtever it was it got installed with that metapackage [17:57] afiestas, I don't really know what it is you're referring to :) [17:57] what functionality did you gain after installing utouch? [17:57] well, I paired the multitouch apple thing, it didn't did anything, not even scroll with 2 fingers [17:57] installed utouch, rebooted, got it working if I remember correctly [17:58] afiestas, two-finger scrolling is part of the mouse settings [17:58] afiestas: iirc utouch-geis is broken [17:58] utterly [17:58] cnd: I just want full functionality (pinch zooming and stuff) on this screen (Dell XT2) [17:58] shadeslayer, hmm? [17:58] haven't followed it up for some months though [17:58] cnd: last I heard, utouch-geis which handles multitouch was broken === yofel_ is now known as yofel [17:58] * shadeslayer looks it up [17:58] shadeslayer, utouch-geis should be working now, it's a core functionality of utouch [17:59] cnd: after logging in and out it doesnt seem to help what afiestas said [17:59] cnd: oh, it's working in Precise? [17:59] jussi: there aren't many applications with multitouch gesture support yet [17:59] oh [17:59] its an app thing then [17:59] yeah [17:59] apparently the plasmoids are supposed to rotate [17:59] with two fingers [18:00] so that's a good test to figure out if it's working or not :) [18:00] shadeslayer, jussi: most two touch stuff from a touchpad won't work [18:00] because the synaptics X input module is usurping them to perform scrolling [18:00] or two-tap for right click [18:00] ... [18:00] cnd: this is an actual touch screen [18:00] that is a fundamental problem with X [18:01] I remember that being discussed on ubuntu-devel [18:01] to go or not to go for double taps [18:01] jussi, ok, you should check the output of xinput [18:01] cnd: could you be more verbose? [18:01] jussi, if you want to pastebin xinput list --all I'll take a look [18:01] sorry, xinput list --long [18:03] cnd: I didnt look, but thats not going to have confidential stuff in it? [18:03] jussi, it shouldn't [18:04] just a list of your input devices [18:04] and info about them [18:04] cnd: ok, great http://paste.ubuntu.com/1027259/ [18:04] Riddell: throw me out no time atm [18:05] jussi, hmm.. you have an n-trig screen, which is usually multitouch [18:05] however, you don't have multitouch capabilities [18:05] either your hardware doesn't support it, or the kernel driver doesn't know how to talk to it properly [18:05] cnd: hrm, weird - Ive been told this thing should be supported in linux [18:06] tbh, I've not seen an n-trig device that *wasn't* supported at this point [18:06] so this is news to me [18:06] cnd: :/ [18:06] jussi: what did you buy :P [18:07] shadeslayer: I didnt, its from my new workplace [18:07] jussi, you might want to have a look in your kernel logs [18:07] and/or dmesg [18:07] ah ok [18:07] http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/latitude-xt2/pd [18:07] to see if there's any messages from the ntrig driver [18:07] jussi... oh... that should be supported [18:07] jussi, another thing to try is to update the firmware [18:07] cnd: dmesg | grep ntrig ? [18:08] you have to update it from windows... [18:08] but firmware updates have resolved these weird situations in the past [18:08] I think there's a good chance it would resolve your issue [18:08] oh no [18:08] cool [18:08] you don't have windows anymore do you :) [18:08] I have no windows and no possibility of windows [18:08] hah [18:08] yeah, this is why I really don't like ntrig [18:09] jussi: there was a tool that updates firmwares for Dell PC's [18:09] not sure if it'll work though [18:09] shadeslayer: link? :D [18:09] * shadeslayer is searching [18:09] cnd: frustrating. [18:10] jussi: I know, I'm sorry :( [18:10] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DellBIOS < Maybe this will help? [18:10] Unless running windows in a vm is enough... [18:10] jussi, it might be [18:10] the device is connected over USB, IIRC [18:10] so if you pass through the touchscreen, it might work [18:10] or you might fry it :) [18:10] who knows [18:11] those instructions look sane enough [18:13] bloody windows only firmware :/ [18:14] jussi, btw, ntrig likes to release new firmware once a week [18:14] @_@ [18:14] cnd: who the hell releases firmware updates once a week [18:14] or at least they did two years ago when we were starting to use them [18:14] cnd: sounds like firefox... [18:14] nah [18:15] also, their hardware really doesn't work that well for multitouch [18:15] isnt that what they say... release early, release often? :D [18:15] I'm on the nightly channel and I have updates everyday === nowardev2 is now known as Peace- [18:16] I wonder if a total reboot might help [18:21] cnd: what was it in that output that told you it wasnt functioning? [18:21] is the kde beta packaged for precise? [18:21] plasma in kde 4.8 is not making me happy [18:21] jussi: there was no multitouch-capable device listed [18:22] and, my knowledge of ntrig told me to expect an explicitly named N-Trig Multitouch device [18:22] and I only saw pen, eraser, and touch (which is single touch) [18:23] yeah, thanks [18:23] Id forgoten there was a pent [18:23] pen* [18:28]