[03:16] <ojwb> seems xnet don't charge for moving anyway (i think the thing I saw about a charge on their website is only if you're connected via fibre)
[04:03] <fmarier> so Precise comes with a local dns resolver by default?
[04:04] <ajmitch> yes, dnsmasq
[04:05] <fmarier> ajmitch: that's not installed on my box...
[04:05] <fmarier> at least according to: dpkg -l dnsmasq
[04:05] <ajmitch> package is dnsmasq-base
[04:06] <ajmitch> afaict networkmanager starts it up & passes the resolvers that dhclient gets through to dnsmasq
[04:06] <fmarier> ah i see, it's just a dns proxy
[04:07] <chilts> hmm, I need to do precise at some stage
[04:08] <ajmitch> yeah I'm not sure of the details of what it can do :)
[04:08] <ojwb> there seems to be a new thing to manage resolv.conf (called resolvconf) too
[04:08] <ajmitch> it's not that new, is it?
[04:09] <ajmitch> debian/changelog says it first made it into experimental in 2003
[04:10] <ojwb> dunno, seems to have only started appeared in my ubuntu-based appliances since I upgrade to precise
[04:10] <ojwb> or maybe it worked differently before
[04:10] <ojwb> it was moaning that /etc/resolv.conf isn't a symlink
[04:10] <ojwb> so I just added it to the list of packages to uninstall
[04:10] <ajmitch> yeah, that part's new
[04:11] <ajmitch> not sure when it started being used by default in ubuntu
[04:12] <ojwb> generally it seems a good idea to have things to manage this, rather than N different things all fighting to update it
[04:12] <ojwb> the appliance situation is a bit special really
[19:35] <ibeardslee> morning
[19:41] <ajmitch> morning
[20:23] <chilts> morning
[22:22] <thumper> morning
[22:33] <fmarier> ibeardslee: zareason coreboot-based laptop, fuck yeah!
[22:38] <ibeardslee> yeap
[22:38] <thumper> wat?
[22:38] <thumper> what is coreboot?
[22:38] <ibeardslee> their bios is already 'open'
[22:38] <ibeardslee> and customised
[22:39] <ibeardslee> https://twitter.com/ZaReasonNZ/status/210488042597777408
[22:39] <ibeardslee> http://www.coreboot.org
[22:40]  * ibeardslee goes looking for the bios zareason use
[22:40] <ajmitch> would be nicer than having to turn off secure boot :)
[22:40] <ojwb> morning
[22:41] <fmarier> thumper: coreboot is a free software bios. it used to be called linuxbios
[22:41] <ibeardslee> actually if coreboot was trusted, would that solve the problem?
[22:41] <mwhudson> yeah, i guess zareason aren't too worried about getting the 'made for windows 8' sticker
[22:41] <fmarier> apparently boots to a linux console in like 3 seconds or something
[22:42] <mwhudson> ibeardslee: coreboot wouldn'
[22:42] <mwhudson> ibeardslee: coreboot wouldn't be trusted unless it only booted to kernels that were signed
[22:42] <ibeardslee> true
[22:43] <ajmitch> fmarier: booting to a desktop in < 10 seconds (with autologin) should be possible
[22:43] <mwhudson> the fundamental problem with all this is that if joe random free software dev can make a kernel you can boot, so can joe random haxxxxor
[22:44] <fmarier> ajmitch: except that legacy bioses usually waste up to 10 seconds setting up the hardware for DOS
[22:44] <mwhudson> ajmitch: about 50% of my boot time is bios currently i think
[22:44] <ojwb> the "trusted" part seems to really mean "trusted to maintain microsoft profit levels"
[22:44] <ibeardslee> http://www.insydesw.com/products  The InsydeH2O is what the Alto I had a look at was running
[22:45] <ajmitch> fmarier: right, so you'd probably be able to get under 10 seconds with that coreboot bios, is what I meant
[22:48] <fmarier> ajmitch: oh, sorry i misunderstood what you said. having a cold boot take as long as resume-from-suspend-to-ram would be pretty neat :)
[22:49] <fmarier> ojwb: i believe that the "trusted" in "trusted computing" has always meant "trusting microsoft to act in your best interest"
[22:49] <ajmitch> I know that ubuntu booted from grub to login in ~10 seconds on some hardware for some releases, I think it could be possible to be faster now
[22:49] <mwhudson> esss esss deee
[22:50] <ajmitch> yup
[22:50] <mwhudson> actually, i need to reboot after an update so i'll time grub -> login
[22:50] <mwhudson> brb :)
[22:52] <ajmitch> booting is certainly not < 10 seconds for me, I've got far too much running at startup, like postgresql :)
[22:52] <mwhudson> about 12s
[22:53] <ibeardslee> I pushed Oneiric 64bit to my netbook (and then upgraded to precise) tempted to drop back to 32bit .. does seem slower
[22:56] <ajmitch> speed of 64-bit vs 32-bit depends on quite a few things
[22:57] <ajmitch> there's talk of a 32-bit userspace ABI that can use the extra registers, it might make apps use a bit less RAM
[23:00] <ojwb> i'd like someone to obsess about restoring from hibernation as much as they seem to about a clean boot
[23:01] <ajmitch> for some reason hibernate seems to be even more problematic than suspend these days
[23:01] <ojwb> there are "fast suspend" kernel patches around at least
[23:01] <ojwb> fast hibernate I mean
[23:02] <ojwb> e.g. http://tuxonice.net/
[23:03] <ojwb> handily comes with patch versions for jaunty, karmic, lucid, and maverick
[23:03] <ojwb> 3 of which are now EOL IIRC
[23:04] <ajmitch> apparantly there's a PPA for more recent versions
[23:06] <ojwb> yes, I was just looking
[23:06] <ojwb> the kernels all say there's a newer version, but I was failing to find the actual versions to compare with
[23:06] <ojwb> not a great sign though
[23:08] <ojwb> AIUI, the standard hibernate essentially just swaps out everything, and on restore stuff just gets paged in on demand
[23:08] <ojwb> so the order of loading is largely random
[23:08] <hads> morning
[23:08] <ojwb> probably works much better for an SSD
[23:10]  * ajmitch stabs LP timeouts
[23:10] <ibeardslee> most things work better with an SSD don't they? ..  .. well apart from my wallet
[23:10] <ajmitch> ojwb: the kernel is only out-of-date with respect to precise-proposed
[23:11] <ojwb> ah
[23:11] <ojwb> that's rather misleading on launchpad's side then
[23:11] <ojwb> ibeardslee: having lots of data doesn't
[23:11] <ojwb> which rather ruins them for me
[23:11] <ajmitch> the Newer Version link says the newer kernel is in -proposed
[23:12] <ojwb> oh, i missed that link
[23:12] <ajmitch> or I'm just too used to how LP lays things out :)
[23:12] <ojwb> d'oh
[23:12] <ojwb> no, it's very obvious
[23:14] <ojwb> looking at the upload dates, it is actually fairly actively maintained for supported ubuntu releases