[12:29] thafreak: you're talking about the essentials cert? i probably know most of that stuff... i wonder where I could find/take the exam. [13:52] jrgifford: any pearson vue testing center i think [13:53] that's where all the lpi cert exams are taken [13:53] The closest ones near me are all in akron though...but i saw quite a few up towards cleveland [13:53] cleveland rocks [13:53] http://www.pearsonvue.com/lpi/locate/ [13:53] paultag: stop spreading lies [13:54] cleveland is a hole [13:54] akron rocks [13:54] actually [13:54] medina rocks [13:54] akron is also a hole [13:54] cleveland rocks [13:54] meh [13:54] driving there is horrible [13:54] cleveland rocks [13:54] are you drew carey or something [13:55] wow tri-c has a pearson vue testing center...didn't know that [13:55] just sayn' [13:57] http://ivaynberg.github.com/select2/ [13:57] hotness [13:58] yeah, i'll see if i can get in there [13:58] oh look paultag - bootstrap! [13:58] :) [13:58] I use way too much bootstrap [13:59] same here. i'm starting to use zurb foundation more [13:59] http://foundation.zurb.com/ [14:05] jrgifford: mmm [14:05] looks interesting [14:06] ugh [14:06] except it's not a fucking "MIT" license [14:06] plus their license file is shit [14:06] there's no such thing [14:06] it's fucking *EXPAT* [14:06] ugh [14:22] https://github.com/zurb/foundation/blob/master/MIT-LICENSE.txt [14:22] oh, haha, I see what you mean there [14:22] It says "MIT-LICENSE" on the tin, but there's no license in the file [14:22] sounds like a bug to me [14:23] github's requirements are just "your source must be public" not "you must have a certain kind of license" right? [14:23] IOW, different from sourceforge that way. [14:24] jrgifford: seems like you'd want to get that sorted out before you go deeper? [15:09] paultag: look at the bottom of the readme. [15:10] it says MIT and has the license in it [15:11] jrgifford: that's not MIT [15:11] there's no such thing as MIT [15:11] There's MIT X/Consortum and Expat [15:11] then wat the heck is this - http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php [15:11] the most commonly used MIT license is Expat [15:11] it says "The MIT License (MIT)" [15:12] jrgifford: that's Expat [15:12] it's wrongly named. [15:12] MIT is legally meaningless without the text [15:12] jrgifford: you can read more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License [15:12] there are two, and I hate when people call it the "MIT" license [15:12] it's fucking stupid [15:13] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License#Various_versions [15:13] Compared to the Expat License,[2] the X11 License[3] and the "MIT License" chosen in 1998 for ncurses by the Free Software Foundation[5] add[dubious – discuss] this clause: [15:13] Except as contained in this notice, the name(s) of the above copyright holders shall not be used in advertising or otherwise to promote the sale, use or other dealings in this Software without prior written authorization. [15:13] oh yeah and XFree86 MIT [15:14] crap I have to blog [15:24] Please watch the language [15:25] paultag: please censor yourself. XFr**86 will be sufficient. [15:27] jandrusk: sorry? [15:28] people not be liking the f-bombs it appears :( [15:28] fbomb? [15:28] oh. [15:28] just spotted it. :) [15:28] the horror :) [15:29] time to get back to changing the world [15:29] paultag: thanks [15:29] lol [15:29] le'sigh [15:29] jandrusk: for what? Leaving? [15:29] paultag: you make me so angry, I want to punch a baby! [15:30] canthus13: yeah, I had to re-read through everything again. I don't even notice them [15:30] uh-oh [15:30] nah === paultag changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-oh to: Welcome to Ubuntu Ohio! | See the calendar for event details! | LoCOhio rocks! | Join us at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-us-ohio | Do it! | Learn more about us at === paultag changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-oh to: Welcome to Ubuntu Ohio! | See the calendar for event details! | LoCOhio rocks! | Join us at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-us-ohio | Do it! | Learn more about us at | no swearing allowed [15:31] lol [15:31] heh. [15:31] http://www.bash.org/?99060 [15:31] reminds me of this [15:31] haha [15:32] must.. respect.. paultag. He's got +o powah [15:32] Heh. [15:32] I rarely kick people [15:32] so there I was in this hallway right [15:32] and almost never if they just have some silly little hate for me, but are being generally civil [15:33] ubuntu/member can do what they want [15:33] MaskedDriver: did you hear, I just need my account created and I'm a debian developer, just passed all my tests :) [15:33] passed AM/FD, waiting on DAM [15:33] paultag: gratz :) [15:33] (oops, Debian Account Manager, don't want to think I'm swearing) [15:34] MaskedDriver: thanks :) [15:34] careful paultag, I'll tell an op on you [15:35] MaskedDriver: but yeah, https://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2012/05/msg00019.html [15:35] shwing. [15:35] gilbert and I will slowly begin the takeover shortly. [15:36] ca.debian.org isn't a trusted CA? sigh [15:38] sunlightfoundation.com eh? [15:38] MaskedDriver: yep, I'm loving my job :) [15:38] MaskedDriver: http://sunlightfoundation.com/ [15:38] aye.. I'm there [15:39] MaskedDriver: http://sunlightlabs.com/ / https://github.com/sunlightlabs/openstates [15:39] MaskedDriver: I work on http://openstates.org/ / https://github.com/sunlightlabs/openstates [15:39] what CMS is this? [15:40] MaskedDriver: None? Django + MongoDB [15:40] not even Django's ORM / CMS [15:40] gotcha [15:40] wait.. I don't think we're talking about the same thing lol [15:40] the website [15:41] yes [15:41] ok [15:41] MaskedDriver: half of our org are hackers, and we're all pretty good at what we do [15:41] MaskedDriver: most of this stuff is written to just do what we need it to do [15:41] and do it perfectly. No one here likes CMSs [15:41] :( [15:41] It's a sad truth :) [15:41] well if none of them work for you [15:42] I'm just anti-reinvent-the-wheel [15:42] Anyone have experience with OwnCloud? [15:42] MaskedDriver: what wheel do you know that can host, serve and provide an API to data that didn't exist before we started this [15:42] MaskedDriver: we have over 200 scrapers that load in a DB, to provide an API that we consume for the site [15:42] (as well as public) [15:42] paultag: that's not reinventing the wheel then, right? lol [15:42] MaskedDriver: no, there's no wheel that existed :) [15:43] the static text lives in templates [15:43] yeah [15:43] which is just for the presentation layer [15:43] and a CMS would just be holding templates anyway [15:43] right [15:43] why add a layer of confusion? [15:43] you wouldn't [15:43] right :) [15:43] ergo → no CMS :) [15:44] :) [15:44] but I'm sure if a system existed already that already did what you needed it to do, you'd use that [15:44] yeah [15:44] but we tend to do stuff no one else is doing :) [15:44] scary stuff ;) [15:45] we're a php shop where I work. I'm the ground-up dev and we have another guy that does Drupal stuff [15:45] MaskedDriver: we f/oss all our stuff so that other people can use what we do :) [15:45] ah [15:45] well, php :) [15:45] aye [15:45] http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ [15:46] I'd take offense if the better I got at it, the more I see problems that would be much easier to take care of with Python or something [15:46] if not for* [15:48] heh :) [15:49] trying to write OO code in PHP is like banging your head against a desk [15:49] not hypothetically speaking.. I've literally done it [15:50] PHP is a great starter language, but when you start getting to complex functionality, it sucks [15:50] I loved PHP for a long time [15:50] and I used it's OO so much [15:50] then you learned python [15:50] it resulted in some pretty sweet stuff [15:50] but then I found out how easy django was [15:51] go to the MI channel and ask rick_h_ what he thinks about django [15:51] then run [15:51] MaskedDriver: I've talked with him in person about it at PyCon a few months ago [15:51] he's using it now [15:51] lol he's still talking a lot of smack about it though lol [15:51] I was hacking on the same table as him when he was working on bookie [15:52] yeah [15:52] you have a talk at PyOhio? [15:52] MaskedDriver: I don't, why? [15:52] I'm in Boston these days [15:52] oh right [15:52] I always forget that [15:52] it's tough to get back to the promised land [15:52] otherwise I'd be all over it [15:53] might give a lightning talk @ a boston python meetup, though [15:53] not decided yet though [15:53] awesome [15:53] so you're not gonna make it to OLF? [15:53] I want to, but I havn't made plans yet [15:53] yeah, I'm not sure if I'm gonna make it [15:53] MaskedDriver: this was my homepage, but this will become my presentation template :) - http://static.pault.ag/homepage/#/step-1 [15:53] I believe it falls on a weekend I'm on call :( [15:54] I should book tickets [15:55] bet this site works awesome in IE6 ;) [15:55] (that's all HTML / CSS / Javascript) [15:55] it needs CSS3 transitions :) [15:55] impress uses CSS3 transitions right? [15:55] yeah [15:55] bet it'd work great in IE7 and 8 too ;) [15:55] bleh [15:55] hey, you can't leave out everyone [15:56] you make a website that isn't cross-browser compatible, it's worse than swearing [15:56] MaskedDriver: have you seen zed shaw's website? [15:56] nein [15:56] link it and I'll check it out after lunch [15:56] jandrusk: cover your ears [15:56] MaskedDriver: http://zedshaw.com/#/fuck [15:57] he wrote the webserver that inspired node.js [15:57] he also wrote that blog post about ruby being a ghetto [15:57] lol so true [15:57] MaskedDriver: no, zed is like a well known rubist [15:58] that was a big deal [15:58] and it was way harsh [15:58] can't be any harsher than the PHP bashing you posted to [15:58] nah, that was civil [15:59] MaskedDriver: http://www.zedshaw.com.sharedcopy.com/rants/51489cec9386f7c13f69b3a58cd50b02.html [15:59] will read after lunch [15:59] be back later [16:00] ...fuck. I don't code... that bitch page about php makes php look like a monty python skit. :/ [16:00] oh. oops. f8ck [16:00] canthus13: it's so absurd [16:01] it's the one place where everything that's wrong with PHP is documented :) [16:01] paultag: I get turned off the second I see .ini used in reference to anything. [16:01] mmm! [16:01] ..which is silly, but it reminds me of windows. [16:02] canthus13: I mean, .desktop is nearly the same thing [16:02] but at least it's not .ini [16:02] people should write code that looks like it was designed for that platform [16:02] not just a port [16:02] but actual integration [16:02] use a .desktop parser, be happy. [16:03] * canthus13 nods. [16:07] * canthus13 wonders if php is any worse than intercal... [16:17] lol [16:51] paultag: that's quite the rant [16:51] not sure I'd like that guy much though [17:55] paultag: django seems pretty intuitive to me (I've never used any python web frameworks [17:58] just running through the tutorials on the site [18:17] MaskedDriver: it's sweet. [18:17] MaskedDriver: and people are dying for django folks [18:17] MaskedDriver: and zed shaw is a brilliant, brilliant man. [18:17] I see a lot of myself in him [18:17] or him in myself, not sure who's older. [18:17] brilliant but lots of qq [18:17] well when he wrote that article, he'd been deving for 21 years, 15 professionally [18:17] so I'd assume older [18:18] I've been deving professonally for 10 [18:18] ok, that's not right. 8 [18:18] the article was written in 2007 it looks like [18:18] yeah [18:18] so 15 years in 2007 [18:18] MATH! [18:18] :) [18:18] ok, so I'm a little zed shaw [18:19] lol [18:58] paultag: I just read the best line of any doc ever in the django tutorial [18:58] Because the URL patterns are regular expressions, there really is no limit on what you can do with them. And there's no need to add URL cruft such as .php -- unless you have a sick sense of humor, in which case you can do something like this: [18:58] (r'^polls/latest\.php$', 'polls.views.index'), [18:58] MaskedDriver: :) [18:59] I think I'm going to write an app that uses .aspx [18:59] people would say, "What version of IIS are you using?" [18:59] I'd reply, "Django" [18:59] they'd cry [19:00] my life would be complete [19:00] oh oh.. I should have finished reading: 'But, don't do that. It's silly' [19:00] ... exactly [19:05] paultag: my python is not very good yet, so can I ask you a quick question? [19:05] MaskedDriver: sure [19:05] return HttpResponse("You're looking at poll %s." % poll_id) [19:05] sure [19:05] %s obviously returns the poll_id. that % poll_id at the end tells that return line what the %s is? [19:06] MaskedDriver: have you used printf? [19:06] aye [19:06] same idea? [19:06] yep [19:06] "Hello, %s" % ( "MaskedDriver" ) [19:06] so, rather then: [19:06] printf("Hello, %s", "MaskedDriver"); [19:06] you can use that anywhere in a string with the % operator [19:07] outstanding. thanks. I've been seeing that a lot in my reading and just wanted to ensure that it was what I was thinking it was [19:07] sure [19:07] appreciate it [19:07] yep brah [19:07] syntax is the hardest thing for me sometimes [19:07] yar [19:08] the logic is never a problem [19:19] not sure I like the templating system [19:19] {% for poll in latest_poll_list %} looks gross to me [19:20] MaskedDriver: why? [19:20] MaskedDriver: it's better then {% for ( poll = 0; poll < len(latest_poll_list_); ++poll %} [19:21] idk.. guess it's not really any different from jumping in and out of php [19:21] um [19:21] python can use for like that [19:21] no.. not the syntax [19:21] foreach ( key => val in foobar ) { // IIRC [19:21] which I think looks grosser [19:21] and to print [19:21] for(foo in bar) { } would work too btw in PHP [19:22] rather then {{ foo }}, you have to do ? [19:22] ?> * [19:22] ,, [19:22] mm * [19:22] {% works great. [19:22] MaskedDriver: if you don't like it, you can change the templating engine [19:22] paultag: I'll get used to it [19:22] which is also easy (and not something you can do in PHP) :) [19:22] you can even make a fake php interp :) [19:23] yes you can :) you can use one of the millions of templating systems out there [19:23] jinja2 is the best, imho [19:23] I use it for everything [19:23] for django? [19:23] I tweeted how to render a template from vars in a JSON file [19:23] for anything, it's default in flask [19:23] people change the templating engine for Django into jinja2 sure [19:24] I tend to keep html code inside of the PHP whenever possible [19:24] {% for poll in latest_poll_list %} [19:24]

[19:24] {% endfor %} [19:24] that looks fantastic [19:24] that seems unnecessary to jump in and out for something as simple as that [19:25] what do you mean jump in and out? [19:25] I don't understand. [19:25] for example in php, I'd echo that entire

line [19:25] ewww [19:25] barf [19:25] MaskedDriver: you can't translate shit like that easy [19:25] not if you're bad ;) [19:26] there are so many reasons why printing html in code is bad :) [19:26] just leave it to the template [19:26] don't even *think* about the view in your logic [19:26] just get the vars into the template context [19:26] who cares if it's HTML, JSON or gopher [19:27] yeah I guess *shrugs* [19:27] fucking php ruined me [19:27] yeah man [19:27] I didn't even do shit like that when I was doing php :( [19:27] view code belongs in the view :) [19:28] yeah [19:28] ooo is the swearing nazi still in here? :( [19:28] sorry whoever that was [19:28] jesus, no need to harrass him [19:28] SHITDICKS [19:29] jandrusk [19:29] hey oda [19:29] * oda just learned the difference between buffered and unbuffered memory [19:29] no boot :( [19:29] ok so since you just schooled me and made me feel inferior, back to the tutorial ;) [19:30] MaskedDriver: :) [19:31] does the order of the imports matter? [19:31] MaskedDriver: no, it shouldn't. I usually order by length of the string [19:31] longest to shortest or shortest to longest? [19:31] either way, whatever feels right. Usually longest to shortest [19:31] but whatever the file is [19:31] gotcha [19:31] thanks again [19:31] np dude :) [19:34] tell ya what though, django sure does spit out VERY useful errors [19:34] MaskedDriver: just wait until you find django-debug-toolbar [19:35] :) [20:42] is oda Odameyer? [20:43] MaskedDriver: yeah [20:43] the one in the banlist? [20:43] there's no way I banned him for real [20:44] MaskedDriver: if he is, feel free to remove him from the banlist [20:44] would if I had the ability [20:44] dude [20:44] oda is awesome [20:44] He's super funny [20:44] Odameyer!*@* banned by zelazny.freenode.net on 3/13/2012 [20:45] same time as everything from 69.242.130.174 and supybot [20:46] that IP address is from Missouri [20:46] meh [20:46] I'm sure it's no big thing anymore [20:46] yeah [20:46] why's supybot blocked? I like supybot ;) [20:46] have you guys ever heard of jenni? [20:47] :- [20:47] :-P [20:47] because we don't need any bots in here MaskedDriver :) [20:47] nuuuu [20:47] jenni from he block? [20:47] the* [20:48] nah [20:48] https://github.com/myano/jenni/ [20:48] but bots make me happy [20:48] you say funny things to them and they break [20:49] Ohio State University OS Club eh? [20:49] OH! [20:49] how are things in c-bus? [20:49] IO! [20:49] I saw someone in OSU gear and I yelled at him [20:49] he was like 50 [20:50] no, older - 60 [20:50] and he yelled right back "IO!" [20:50] it was great [20:50] win [20:50] in Boston? [20:50] yep [20:50] that makes it much better [20:50] it was on the mass transit system [20:50] nice [20:50] I love walking around MI with my OSU gear on [20:50] get so much crap for it [20:50] haha [20:50] lol [20:51] I don't even think about it. Toss on my OSU hoodie (trying to get shot) and ball cap and head to Meijer [20:52] you didn't answer my question though yano.. How are things in c-bus? [20:52] on the 17th, it'll be one year since I've been there last [20:52] god, I miss Cleveland :( [20:52] like, a lot [20:52] go brownies [20:53] this is where I bark [20:53] I walk around in my browns hoodie too. people up here don't like me very much :( [20:54]