len-dtailo, ya I've been busy too. I need to package my mode change stuff and add a config tool. I will try to make it open and not set to specific tweaks.00:36
len-dtThat way a user who has special needs can still do something we haven't thought of.00:36
len-dtOr it can be used for other purposes besides US.00:38
len-dtIf nothing else it may make testing easier.00:41
scott-worksorry all, have been sick since monday but i'm feeling much better now13:40
ailoscott-work: Seemed like there might have been a bit of hesitance adding -lowlatency for UKT maintenance :P15:06
ailoI was just thinking about the motivation to add it15:06
ailoSince we will absolutely want it in, no matter which way, and the diff is just a couple of configs, it seems like the best course of action. I guess this is what we have already formulated15:07
ailoAlso, the configs are not only there for improving audio performance. They are more or less absolutely needed15:09
ailoI know we all know this, but I wonder what the guys at UKT are thinking about this15:10
scott-workailo: i spoke with leann late last week on irc after several emails back and forth15:18
scott-workher original concern was adding back another kernel into their responsibility after they had reduced the numbers15:18
scott-workher current concern is validation of usage, to which she submitted an RT ticket to get the download numbers for the studio image15:19
scott-workleann mentioned that one reason the non-pae i386 kernel was dropped was because of low, and dwindling, usage numbers15:20
scott-workhowever, if the download numbers do not justify UKT maintaining the kernel, leann was very gracious to offer help creating scripts that would minimize the work for updating the lowlatency kernel15:21
ailoscott-work_: Interesting to know download numbers for sure. Has anyone had any info on this before? I can understand wanting to use that as a meter, but from my point of view, the nessecity to have it as the default kernel for Ubuntu Studio, something that other distros do not suffer from (needing a special kernel), makes it a special case. Perhaps if it doesn't end up being maintained by UKT, it will hopefully gain popularity 19:46
ailoWe should also do more advertising for it. Perhaps highlight it just to make it more visible19:48
scott-work_ailo: i seem to remember cory or pesia had posted a link a long time ago19:56
scott-work_i don't remember anything specific, other than perhaps 64bit seemed to double that of 32bit over a period of time19:56
ailoAn item we should add to testing is to make some sort of general comparison between -generic and -lowlatency. The cons and pros. Probably the only downside is higher use of power, and it would be good to be able to show how much.20:00
ailoI should start a scratchpad for things like this. 20:01
ailoOr add some items to blueprints20:09
ailoSeems like the best way after all :P20:10
Len-nbscott-work_, good to see you back, sorry to hear you were sick.20:35
scott-work_ailo: definitely add it to the blueprint, that way it might inspire others to think of something else :)20:36
scott-work_Len-nb: thanks20:36
Len-nbscott-work_, do you have a midi IF? If so what kind? ( looking for non-mpu401 compatible)20:38
scott-work_no, i don't have any MIDI gear20:39
Len-nbOk, there have been problems with USB MIDI IFs. I can't test it though.20:39
Len-nbI wanted to see if the problem was wider than just one instance.20:40
Len-nbailo, I don't think the Low latency kernel would add much power use over the generic. On it's own the change will not make the cpu work harder. That would depend on the software running. "ondemand" still sets the cpu to half speed on idle and the RT stuff only gets used when SW that uses it runs. That SW would have the same effect on generic too.20:51
Len-nbailo, setting swappiness to 10 instead of 60 would decrease power use.20:52
Len-nbspeaking of swappiness, there has been a move in the linux world towards lower numbers. RH now defaults to 40.20:53
Len-nbon my two machines I have swappiness set to 0 on one and 10 on the other.20:54
Len-nbeven though they are both low memory machines (1 G) there is no difference in swapping with normal use.20:56
ailoLen-nb: I've heard that -lowlatency might require more power. Would be good to find out20:56
Len-nbin both cases after a days use swap had no use.20:56
Len-nbailo, figuring a test case might not be too easy. I do have a power meter though.20:57
ailoJeez, my nvidia card fan is having a real concerto today. 20:58
ailoLen-nb: If there is a way, we'll find it20:58
Len-nbhave to measure both low use and high use cases.20:59
ailoOne could ask the question why does Ubuntu not use a higher resolution by default21:00
ailoFor the timer21:00
Len-nbailo, I had thought of that :-) yes.21:01
ailoAlso, what does preempt do, that would be bad for other uses21:01
Len-nbthe high res timer is there, but not available to userland21:02
Len-nbailo, I think in due time these changes will become main steam21:03
Len-nbsettable on boot anyway.21:03
ailoActually, that might be something worth trying to hack21:04
ailoWould mean we don't need -lowlatency. Just some boot options21:04
Len-nbailo, if there is a general trend to command line options, that could be a problem too. There used to be a limit to command line length...21:07
Len-nbso what we want is the kernel config to be something like yes/no/cl21:08
ailoWould be even better if those changes could be done during runtime21:10
ailoI'm not about to try to code it yet anyway :P21:10
ailoOk, time to hit bed. Work to do tomorrow!21:12
Len-nbailo, the first thing to find out is if having it running all time really affects anything else.21:12
ailoLen-nb: I guess servers like non preempt, but I don't really know why. 21:13
ailoAs for resolution, no idea21:13
ailoTimer res, that is21:13
Len-nbpreempt only happens if SW uses it.21:14
Len-nbtimer rez probably have a cpu work load effect21:14
Len-nbpreempt in a server could be a security problem.21:15
Len-nbA bad user program could be like a DOS.21:15
ailoAll of these things should be written down and confirmed/proved somehow.21:16
ailoI didn't mean to do anything about this yet, since I have other tasks to do first21:16
ailoBut, later on..21:16
ailoSounds like there's some material for a comparison between the kernels anyway21:17
ailoGN Len-nb :)21:18

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