[11:32] <MrNaz``> if i plug my firewire cam into ubuntu 12.04 and dvgrab reports "no camera found", what are the best steps i can take to troubleshoot it?
[11:32] <MrNaz``> this same laptop/camcorder combination works when i install ubuntu 10.04 with the old firewire stack...
[12:12] <Loozer> are the repositories down?
[15:14] <tester> hi. what theme does ubuntu studio use?
[15:18] <len-dt> tester, Greybird, and the elemetary Xfce dark icon theme.
[15:19] <tester> len-dt, thank you so much )
[16:35] <mighty_aboba> Why does apple products so popular for musicmaking?
[16:35] <mighty_aboba> Or is it question for opensourcemusician channel?
[16:36] <mighty_aboba> I ask about technical benefits
[16:37] <mighty_aboba> Are there the lower latencies?
[16:37] <mighty_aboba> or what?
[16:58] <len-dt> mighty_aboba, just off the top of my head.... windows has too many problems. For those used to dealing with those problems they don't see them. Apple has made sure their OS/HW works well together that there are no glitches, and the user needs no or very little computer experience.
[16:58] <len-dt> There are a lot of musicians who have no computer smarts.
[16:59] <len-dt> Apple has wisely put a glowing apple on the lid of their laptops so it is obvious when their product is being used on stage
[16:59] <len-dt> aspiring musicians copy their idols.
[17:01] <len-dt> ubuntu studio is working to give the user the same out of the box experience that the mac does (or better) given a PC to start with.
[17:26] <len-dt> mighty_aboba, The whole linux audio community is for that matter. There are a few problems... Linux is first a server OS, The desktop experience has over taken that for sure, but anyone making money on Linux is doing so maintaining servers.
[17:27] <len-dt> So kernel wise RT or low latency takes a back seat to robustness and server uses.
[17:29] <mighty_aboba> But for sound making
[17:29] <mighty_aboba> Does macs have some benefits?
[17:29] <len-dt> The next problem is profile. Linux does not have a high profile as an audio platform. So the manufactures of audio products do not support Linux. The solution to this is for Linux users to support manufactures who at least use the standards available and therefore work with Linux out of the box.
[17:30] <mighty_aboba> i mean the software technologies
[17:30] <len-dt> The audio cards work out of the box, the user doesn't have to tweak. The user doesn't have to know anything about computers.
[17:31] <len-dt> Those are pretty big things.
[17:31] <mighty_aboba> Does macs have rt kernel?
[17:31] <mighty_aboba> or something like that
[17:31] <mighty_aboba> ?
[17:39] <len-dt> I don't know. The mac is based on the BSD kernel, so it is a unix like linux is.
[17:41] <len-dt> I do think it has been optimized for desktop use though. I also think that people who buy Macs expect to pay more and tend to buy at the top end and so while the hardware is similar there are less cheap HW issues.
[17:42] <len-dt> It is much easier to design an OS when you have only a few known sets of HW to deal with and you have control of that HW.
[17:44] <len-dt> Even Linux systems made for audio use, use off the shelf HW. They try to pick the best HW for audio, but do not have the staff to make sure it is engineered for that purpose.
[17:45] <len-dt> If we could make such a system that was made for audio from the ground up, I am sure it could be better than a Mac... but, could you sell it for a profit?
[17:46] <mighty_aboba> I think linux have a big potential
[17:46] <len-dt> You would be fighting against the perception that Mac is the audio system and so would have to fit their price range.
[17:47] <len-dt> mighty_aboba, I agree Linux is a good alternative to the Mac.
[17:47] <len-dt> I think it could out preform the Mac as well.
[17:47] <len-dt> The big word is "could". I don't think we are there yet.
[17:48] <mighty_aboba> I sure that Linux is better then Windows in this case:)
[17:49] <len-dt> My opinion is that windows has too many out of the box problems to begin with for any use. It's big advantage is that it comes with the machine and there are lots of people who can support it
[17:49] <mighty_aboba> But Mac have big support by the HW manufacturers
[17:50] <len-dt> Yes, because the user base warrants it.
[17:50] <len-dt> HW manufactures are there to make money, not hardware. The hardware is just there as a route to make that money.
[17:51] <len-dt> The biggest draw to Linux (over Mac) is the price for most people.
[17:52] <len-dt> Manufactures deal with the majority of their buyers. They are quite up front about it too.
[17:54] <len-dt> People who are willing to spend on a Mac... and all the SW (not much free stuff there) are going to buy the better HW too.
[17:57] <len-dt> The ALSA project is one of the most important projects as they make it possible to use HW made for windows/Mac. This is what allows the the Linux audio user base to increase. If those who make their HW work with Linux make more money because of it, then there will be more Linux support from the manufacture.
[18:00] <len-dt> This is what happened (at least for a while) with Ethernet cards. Ethernet cards actually started coming with linux drivers along with windows drives on the install floppy. (not many ethernet cards any more as almost all MB come with them, cards are only useful for double ported server use)
[18:05] <len-dt> Personally, I think the ethernet port could be a good port to use for an audio IF as well... but there are no open standards... I suppose netjack could be considered one, but it only allows for one system to have an audio IF.
[18:09] <mighty_aboba> I don't understand one thing, why do they not make the driver for hardware that i buy
[18:11] <mighty_aboba> i bye hw and i want to have support for system that i use
[18:11] <mighty_aboba> linux, mac or win
[18:11] <mighty_aboba> it should not matter
[18:11] <len-dt> The manufacture does not want to spend development money on 1% of their users.
[18:12] <len-dt> If we want to get support Linux users have to become a larger percentage.
[18:14] <len-dt> If Linux supports the HW that works with Linux, Linux users will become a bigger percentage for that HW and start getting support. If that HW then starts having a larger market share, other HW will follow with Linux support.
[18:14] <len-dt> It is all money.
[18:15] <mighty_aboba> it is all people
[18:15] <len-dt> Not to a manufacture
[18:16] <len-dt> People control the manufacture by where they spend their money.
[18:17] <len-dt> That is why ailo_  is making a list of Linux friendly HW.
[18:18] <mighty_aboba> where can i find this list?
[18:19] <mighty_aboba> top managers decide to make support or not for each user
[18:20] <mighty_aboba> if they would decide that the firm will be support each user
[18:20] <mighty_aboba> btw i think it is not so hard to port mac os driver to linux
[18:21] <mighty_aboba> for they
[18:22] <mighty_aboba> for them*
[18:25] <len-dt> Even releasing enough info for the ALSA team to make drivers would help.
[18:25] <len-dt> I am not sure at this time where ailo_  has the list
[18:26] <len-dt> If you leave you IRC client up long enough (till he wakes up?) he may answer you though.
[18:29] <mighty_aboba> Where is he from?
[18:36] <len-dt> Not sure .. Finland?
[20:58] <ailo_> mighty_aboba: There's no particular list. But I am trying to get a picture of which devices are fully supported
[21:00] <ailo_> I live in Sweden, but I have Finnish descent. So, either nationality works for me
[21:01] <ailo_> For other types of devices, there are lists where you can see which ones are supported or now, and you can get a fairly good picture of the situation
[21:01] <ailo_> I don't feel this is the case for USB devices
[21:02] <ailo_> So, it would be good to create such a list