[00:01] New bug: #1011630 in six (main) "[MIR] six" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1011630 [00:26] bdmurray: nova hasnt been reviewed yet? === Frood is now known as Frood|Game === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === Frood|Game is now known as Frood === Frood is now known as FroodWP === FroodWP is now known as Frood [02:45] New bug: #1012468 in dovecot (main) "package mail-stack-delivery 1:1.2.15-3ubuntu2.1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1012468 === Frood is now known as KBrO3 === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [03:55] hi [03:56] what user does the awstats upgrade cron job run as? [03:56] I'm getting emails from Cron every 10 minutes Create/Update database for config "/etc/awstats/awstats.conf" by AWStats version 7.0 (build 1.971) Couldn't open server log file "/var/log/apache2/access.log" : Permission denied [03:57] What upgrade job [03:57] s/upgrade/update [03:57] Did you install awstats via apt? [03:57] i just did an upgrade [03:57] to 12.04 [03:57] but yes [03:57] it's an ubuntu package [03:57] Are all packages upgraded to 12.04? [03:57] yes [03:57] aptitude update; aptitude search ~U [03:57] The search should print nothing [03:58] nothing [03:58] OK, use dpkg -L to find the awstats cron job. Which file is it? [03:59] /etc/cron.d/awstats [03:59] OK, open it up and look at the user column. That tells you who it runs as. [04:00] oh that's where it is [04:00] all files in /var/log/apache2 are chwoned root:adm and chmod 650 [04:00] which is how it should be imo [04:01] cron job runs as www-data [04:03] should I change it to root? [05:07] whats a good simple ftp server to install on ubuntu? [05:08] vsftpd [05:08] But http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FtpMustDie -- use SFTP for authenticated write access, and HTTP for unauthenticated read access. [05:08] SFTP is built into SSH and even Windows FTP GUI apps speak SFTP these days [05:08] thx [05:10] I hope he read ALL those lines... === matsubara_ is now known as matsubara [08:14] New bug: #995817 in samba (main) "share samba doesn't work easily" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/995817 [08:29] * Daviey notes that he is very impressed with Quantal's offlineimap [08:32] offlineimap got orphaned a couple years ago [08:32] Not sure if someone has adopted it [08:35] There's a new version so I guess they did :-) [08:38] You're right, changes look interesting. [08:43] twb: yeah, the main thing is the speed.. it's MUCH more snappy to sync for some reason. In addition, it defaults to validating TLS/SSL fingerprints [08:43] also seems to do beter 'sync back' of new folders [09:06] New bug: #991754 in postfix (main) "Add support to turn off the TLSv1.1 and TLSv1.2 protocols" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/991754 [09:24] are there any other decent mail control panels (for Postfix) apart from ISPConfig? [09:24] anything that's available on apt? [09:24] !WHCP [09:24] Bot fail :-/ [09:26] !DHCP [09:26] dhcp is Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol, a protocol for automatic IP assignment from a router. Ubuntu uses dhclient as a DHCP client but other ones (and DHCP servers too) can be obtained from the !repos. More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DHCP [09:26] damn - it knew that [09:28] BuenGenio: join #debian-bots, then /msg dpkg whcp === deegee__ is now known as drussell === rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3_ [09:32] twb, that's cool [09:32] short list though [09:32] for free... =) === rickspencer3_ is now known as rickspencer3 [09:36] also, any idea why tab completion works for `apt-get install` on one machine and doesn't on another, both running 12.04 ? [09:36] Generally we recommend people learn to use the CLI, rather than a WHCP [09:36] BuenGenio: you need to source /etc/bash_completion [09:37] twb, this is for a customer-facing CP [09:37] I know my bash, mkay... [09:37] That is harder :-) [09:37] :) [09:37] FWIW my company rolls its own for that [09:37] cool [09:37] Before that were were using webmin and everyone hated it [09:37] interested in a demo? if it's good, we could even pay something for it ... ;) [09:38] Our code is very specific to our needs, and it's not for postfix [09:38] webmin (or virtualmin) has no support for MySQL afaik [09:38] It basically does RFC 2307 LDAP account management and management of inmate SOEs [09:38] MySQL virtual mailboxes ie [09:38] BuenGenio: well msg dpkg webmin as well [09:38] what are "inmate SOEs" just out of curiousity? [09:39] I run prisons [09:39] Specifically, the computers that inmates get [09:41] !webmin [09:41] webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system. [09:42] RoyK: I guess I get into the habit of assuming ubottu knows nothing about anything :-) [09:42] :) [09:42] so [09:43] what [09:43] I got vsftpd installed [09:43] followed the tut and edited the lil config [09:43] created /etc/vsftpd_user_conf [09:43] but now i'm confused, I added root to first line, saved and restarted server [09:43] but won't let me login via ftp client [09:44] thought you just add user name per line, if they already exist [09:44] 15:08 But http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FtpMustDie -- use SFTP for authenticated write access, and HTTP for unauthenticated read access. [09:44] twb++ [09:45] root access on ftp is suicidal [09:45] so in otherwords you don't know [09:45] taipres: no, we do know, but never, ever recommend root access on ftp [09:45] taipres: so do it the proper way, or misconfigure your server on your own [09:46] that is the proper way, root account already exists [09:46] tired of nix geeks trying to tell me how to run my server [09:46] no, root access on ftp is *NOT* the proper way [09:46] can't even connect to IRC under root without it banning [09:46] it's out of control RoyK [09:46] taipres: then don't ask for help here, please [09:46] if I want to use root, i'm gonna use root [09:46] no I get to ask questions, in here, while under root [09:47] and you get to like it [09:47] up to you [09:47] but it's close to suicidal [09:47] no it's not [09:47] so, no, I won't help you there [09:47] i apologize for getting annoyed at you, you don't have to like anything, but if it makes you feel better I only run ftp server when i personally use it [09:48] i shut it down afterwards [09:48] to free up mem [09:48] taipres: we can't stop you doing dumb things, be we won't help you. We think what you're trying to do is a dumb thing. We've suggested alternatives. End of story. [09:48] * RoyK accepts the apology and moves on to something a bit more interesting [09:49] like washing clothes [09:49] There are for-profit companies that will provide more help; we're volunteers [09:52] twb you suggested yet another ftp server [09:52] just like some other guy did when i first came in here [09:52] i'm tired of new ftp servers, just admit you don't know how to add users to this one [09:52] and stop acting like you holdin back the answer [09:53] SFTP is not FTP [09:53] does same thing [09:53] with "encryption" ooOOooo [09:53] Plonk. [09:54] you realize probably 99% of forums in the world take your login credentials in plain text? [09:54] lot of mail servers do too, as do IRC [09:54] it's an unsecure internet my friend [09:54] taipres: FTP over SSH [09:54] taipres: stop it, please [09:55] yes ftp with encryption, as I said [09:55] nothing magical about it [09:55] I want standard, FTP [09:55] and you're quite insane... [09:55] why? someone gonna see me upload some css files? [09:56] taipres: call some contractor, and they will probably help you without questioning your sanity [09:56] lol, they see those anyway when they visit my ste :P [09:56] taipres: as the root account??? [09:56] RoyK I shutdown the ftp server when im done [09:56] * RoyK REALLY goes to do the laundry [09:57] if anything my normal FTP server would be more secure than most other FTP servers out there [09:57] simply because of the short windows its being ran [09:57] do I see anyone saying, wow he's right, what a great idea [09:57] no [09:57] just no encryption, hes using root, let me freak out === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away === matsubara_ is now known as matsubara-lunch === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away [11:44] Hello , How can I see/browse/navigate groups and users that I have on my Ubuntu server 12.04 using terminal? Thakns [11:47] I mean is there any "ls" command that browse groups? then "ls" that browse users inside of each group? [11:48] of course using terminal [11:48] getent [11:48] leonard__: man groups, also take a look at getent [11:48] ok thanks === matsubara-lunch is now known as matsubara === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [12:56] New bug: #1012649 in puppet (main) "package puppet-common 2.7.11-1ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1012649 === apw is now known as apw_ === apw_ is now known as cafetiere === cafetiere is now known as apw_ === apw_ is now known as cafetiere === cafetiere is now known as apw === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [13:23] bdmurray: can you review nova sru when you get a chance? thanks === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away [14:31] if i type: apt-get install mysql-server (this install mysql server version 5.5 but exist a new version: 5.5.25 how to install the new version? [14:37] . [14:37] whoops === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [15:04] Jak2000: Ubuntu 12.04 has updates upto mysql 5.5.24. If you want 5.5.25 then you'll need to install from a third party source. [15:04] (or from the development version) === KBrO3 is now known as Frood === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away === zyga is now known as zyga-afk [15:57] so, im considering getting a used sas card and going to sata or getting a pci-sata card. whats the diff? [15:57] any advanatage? === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [16:02] I need to be able to read an ext4 drive from Windows Server 2008. Does anyone know how to do that? [16:02] i dont think you can tash [16:02] damn [16:02] im not 100% sure [16:02] you can read ext2, therefor ext3 [16:02] but if you use ext4 extents, then no [16:02] I need to get all data off this external ext4 drive and onto this server 2008 box [16:02] patdk-wk: are ext2 and 3 that similar? [16:03] ext3 just adds a log [16:03] log/journal [16:03] tash: maybe this willhelp http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-read-ext3ext4-linux-partition-from-windows-7.html [16:03] I've tried mounting the windows share on 1 ubuntu server, then mounting the usb drive on another ubuntu server and rsyncing bu the rsync just acts weird. [16:04] tash: i dont know anything aboutthe utility other then a quikc google search [16:04] RoyK: ping [16:07] tash: Boot the server from a Linux live CD and copy from ext4 to NTFS using Linux. [16:16] New bug: #1007743 in mysql-5.1 (main) "package mysql-server-5.1 5.1.62-0ubuntu0.11.04.1 failed to install/upgrade: subproces installed post-installation script gaf een foutwaarde 1 terug" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1007743 [16:17] hello all! === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [17:21] New bug: #1012771 in nmap (main) "Icon is in the wrong place after install." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1012771 [17:21] does anyone know where samba stores its list of users? [17:23] hey, I use my server as a router [17:24] when the isp change de ip, i need to make sure the server restart it [17:24] i have no idea how to do it [17:26] dhcp? [17:26] (client) [17:28] pdbedit -a -u isn't working for me to add a user to the samba database [17:28] yes [17:29] it prompts for password and when I type and confirm it, just says it Failed to add entry for user [17:29] any thoughts? [17:29] i need to renovate the ip address offered by isp's dhcp [17:29] automatically [17:29] so angry coworkers wont forcelly restart the server when the internet is not working in the morning === Guest97209 is now known as Ursinha === Ursinha is now known as Guest86632 [17:39] for some reason the computer is not requesting a new ip when the current is invalid... [17:54] anyone up for a 'juju debug-hooks' question? My environment doesn't seem to be set up correctly. [18:06] bdmurray: ping === matsubara is now known as matsubara-afk === JanC_ is now known as JanC === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [18:39] resno: pong? [18:47] RoyK: oh, question. going sas -> sata vs sata pci card. any big diff? [18:48] RoyK: you told about going lsi sas before, and im just curious in comparions [18:51] you can't [18:51] you can't plug sas drives into sata [18:53] sas and sata dont talk the same language [18:55] patdk-wk: erm... sata drives work perfectly on sas controllers, just not the other way around [18:55] * RoyK has some 250 2TB SATA drives on SAS controllers/SAS expanders [18:56] royk, only if the sas controller supports sata, but ya, most do :) [18:56] patdk-wk: they do by definition [18:56] but then the sas controller isn't talking sas, it's talking sata [18:56] patdk-wk: SATA is a subset of SAS [18:57] you mean, stp is a subset of sas [18:57] sata-tunnelling-protocol [18:57] maybe... I was just told sata was a subset of sas, and I've never ever seen any sas controller not supporting sata [18:58] sas runs at double the voltage, double the cable lengths [18:58] ok [18:58] * RoyK confesses he doesn't know shit about L1 on those [18:59] sas with a sata connetor - to four sata drives [18:59] or pci to sata card [18:59] * resno refines his question [19:00] resno: what board? [19:00] sff8087? [19:00] that's the connector, I guess [19:00] if your going, sff8087 to 4 sata disks, it should work fine [19:00] something likethis http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815256005 [19:01] found quickly on newegg [19:01] going from a sas drive, to that, won't work [19:01] no sas drive [19:01] what is on the other end? [19:01] sata drives [19:01] well, sata to sata will work [19:01] so either sas card to sata or pci sata card ( like what i linked) to sata [19:02] resno: that's not a sas controller - what sas controller were you talking about? [19:02] sas card with a sas to sata cable/dongle thing [19:02] RoyK: nothing specially yet, looking at lsi 3 gblikely [19:02] specifically [19:03] i couldnt find anything stating benefits of one overthe other [19:03] resno: I know LSI 92xx works well with SATA both direct-connect and on supermicro's (that is, LSI's) SAS expanders [19:03] just don't use WD drives on those expanders [19:03] there are no real benifits of one vs the other [19:03] cause your still using sata on both [19:04] now if 16x drives per card is a benifit [19:04] patdk-wk: using direct attach with 80 drives will be quite a mess ;) [19:05] I dunno he spec'd 80 drives [19:05] considering he is talking about a 2 port pcie card [19:05] * RoyK was just referring to his own setups [19:05] yea, its not anything major yet. [19:06] im having someissues with speed, and im setting up a new server to help. [19:06] resno: for anything < 16 drives (or so), just use direct attach [19:06] s/help/replace/ [19:06] for a large setup, use something like LSI's SAS expanders, as found in supermicro machines [19:06] several others have similar hardware [19:07] RoyK: with that many drives do you use like raid10? [19:07] or multiple raids [19:08] that all depends on what you need [19:08] but normally it's raid10, or raid6 with like 10-20 disks per set [19:08] resno: one box is striped mirrors, 38 mirrors (IIRC) - this is a high-traffic fileserver, that's got a backup box with four large raidz3 VDEVs, slow on writes, but hell, it's a backup. the last two others are using 7-drive raidz2-VDEVs (backup target) [19:09] that just blows my mind [19:10] :D [19:10] ZFS FTW! [19:10] but it doesnt work on ubunturight? [19:10] no [19:10] its an bsd thang [19:10] openindiana [19:10] which is a solaris thing [19:10] ah, you're a openindiana guy [19:10] * RoyK is [19:10] http://zfsonlinux.org/ [19:10] yeah, but who dares run that in production? [19:11] ive read its not really solid on linux yet [19:11] bdmurray: ping [19:11] seems to be indevelopment on ubuntu, but same end effect [19:11] bdmurray: How are the openstack SRU's looking? [19:11] resno: with half a petabyte of storage, you don't want to think it might be somewhat stable... === Ursinha` is now known as Ursinha [19:12] someone might just be a little angry [19:12] :D === Ursinha is now known as Guest57727 [19:12] i didnt know they made sas drives [19:13] i figured sas was a method to connect to backplanes, etc [19:18] resno: it's a very nice method for connecting drives to more backplanes ;) [19:18] sata can only connect to a single controller [19:21] sas is also nice, cause it's bi-directional === pdtpatrick_ is now known as pdtpatrick [19:25] well thanks RoyK and patdk-wk learned a bit more [19:26] patdk-wk: bi-directional how? [19:26] sata goes 3g or 6g, one way at a time [19:27] sas goes both ways at the same time [19:27] erm, so sata is half duplex and sas is full? [19:27] yep [19:27] * RoyK didn't know [19:27] with sas do you use scsi drives? [19:28] you use sas disks [19:28] no, sas drivers [19:28] sas talks scsi [19:28] erm, sas drives :) [19:28] sata talks ata [19:28] oh, i was lookingon newegg didnt see sas drives [19:28] the signalling is SCSI [19:28] look under enterprise disks maybe :) [19:28] resno: it works with SATA drives too [19:29] but if you're using enterprise drives, SAS drives cost about the same as enterprise SATA drives [19:29] which cost about the double as SATA desktop drives [19:29] uhm hmm [19:30] verypricey indeed [19:31] yes, but you get what you're paying for. I talked to this ex-sun^Woracle employee and he said they had ran tests on thousands of SATA drives in large setups and he never wanted to touch it again. with SAS it just worked. With SATA there was all sorts of timing (and other) issues === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away [19:38] question.. so i updated /etc/resolv.conf and i cannot still ping DNS names [19:38] such as google etc.. [19:45] esuave: pastebin current /etc/resolv.conf (it might be updated automatically) [19:46] well the odd thing is.. after i did the ubuntu install, there was no resolv.conf [19:46] i had to create one [19:46] static ip? [19:46] set in /etc/network/interfaces? [19:47] basically all i have in there is : search domain.com and nameserver 1.1.1.1... <-- example.. not real ips [19:47] yeah static IP [19:47] esuave, what version of ubuntu? [19:47] 10.04 [19:47] esuave: add 'dns-nameservers x.y.z.æ' in the iface eth0 block [19:47] (or whatever nic you use) [19:47] ok [19:48] and possibly dns-search my.tld === hazmat is now known as kapilt [19:49] yeah still didnt work.. [19:49] i think i might know the issue though [19:49] a nslookup shows a refused to my DNS server [19:49] esuave: restart networking after that [19:50] RoyK: i did [19:50] esuave: was /etc/resolv.conf updated? [19:50] it still looks the same from what i set before [19:51] ah yeah i found the issue.. my DNS server was not allowing lookups [19:51] for that specific server [19:51] sorry guys, thanks for the helpz though [19:51] :D [20:14] zul: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Openstack%20Testing/view/Openstack%20Precise/view/Overview/job/precise-openstack-essex-proposed-deploy/ [20:14] and https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Openstack%20Testing/view/Openstack%20Precise/view/Overview/job/precise-openstack-essex-test/567/console [20:14] sweet whats this? [20:15] zul: theres some coverage of whats made it to -proposed so far (keystone and glance) [20:15] adam_g: yeah still waiting for nova [20:15] zul: its the same deploy and tests we normally do but installed directly from precise-proposed [20:15] adam_g: muhahaha.. [20:20] how can i do a package upgrade from 10.04.3 to 10.04.4? [20:24] apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade [20:24] thanks henkjan === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === kapilt is now known as hazmat [20:50] wich is the name of the release: http://pastebin.com/sGckmGXY [20:57] I seem to be having a problem with my ubuntu server, were the load should be 0.00 it will be 0.5 at least, sometimes spiking to 1. CPU use is 0 and mem use is 8%, there is also little I/O activety, this started today after a reboot (upon ssh login it mentioned it needed a reboot). Does anyone have any idea what this issue might be? [21:01] New bug: #1012854 in cloud-init "cloud-config should support simple file writing" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1012854 === Guest57727 is now known as Ursinha === Ursinha is now known as Guest2796 === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [21:28] http://pastebin.com/YNx7rX3j apt-get install -t wich is the name of the release ? [21:30] bdmurray: ping [21:34] !guidelines > RoyK [21:34] RoyK, please see my private message [21:34] !coc > RoyK [21:34] there are the rules [21:37] IdleOne: I know the rules, but since you threaten to ban me from the channel because of swearing, I need to know which words or phrases are banned, since there is no clear distinction between a power expression and swearing in the English language, this distinction is by definition a cultural thing [21:38] IdleOne: and since you obviously have a regex looking for "bad" words in here, could you please post that somewhere so that we could have the openness in the rules, as well as the ubuntu source code? [21:38] IdleOne: this would be much appreciated [21:38] RoyK: You are acting like this is the first time you get warned about your use of bad language. You will not be getting anymore warnings. [21:38] IdleOne: why can't you just give me (or us) that regex? is it a secret? [21:39] RoyK: please join us in #ubuntu-ops for a moment please. [21:43] hmm, coc says nothing about use of bad words [21:44] as long as your not using it to be disrespectful of someone or their work [21:44] the guidelines do [21:44] I can't locate the guide lines, via ubuntu webpage about irc support [21:44] !guidelines [21:44] The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines [21:47] maybe that should be linked somewhere? so it can actually be located? [21:49] patdk-wk: You mean somewhere like in the /topic of the channel? It is there :) [21:49] patdk-wk: it is linked in the entrymsg that chanserv sends when you join the channel [21:49] also in the topic [21:50] * IdleOne orders a flashing neon sign. [21:50] 40' tall should be enough? [21:50] I apologize for being sarcastic [21:50] so they are in the TOS guide, but even the tos guide isn't linked to the ubuntu irc web page [21:52] Someone fall into the sarchasm? [22:17] * ScottK can't figure out what the fuss was about. === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [23:08] FYI -- us-east-1's EC2 mirror is now using S3. If you encounter any problems, please see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-cloud-announce/2012-April/000025.html [23:26] hi, what file system do you recomend for a raid5 nas? [23:41] leojrfs, any [23:42] patdk-lap: my problem is that it is a raid5 with 3 disk [23:42] and another 2 are coming next month [23:42] I don't see the *problem* [23:42] so i will have to grow the partition [23:42] with xfs [23:42] i only do a md0 [23:43] why with xfs? [23:43] you can grow anything [23:43] and then i add an device to array [23:43] and do xfs_grow [23:43] xfs, ext2/3/4, ntfs, fat32, ... [23:43] with ext4, i do not know how to do the same [23:43] some say i have to use lvm [23:43] resizefs [23:43] lvm just adds another layer on top of things, to get in the way [23:44] lvm has nothing at all to do with this [23:44] thats why i dont get why to put lvm on top of it [23:44] sure [23:44] don't use lvm [23:44] let me explain de full situation [23:44] if you don't want to use lvm, don't use it, that simple :) [23:44] i have 1 disk for the OS [23:44] ubuntu LTS [23:45] i whant to use the other 3 disks (+2), to make an /Data [23:45] and symlink of /home [23:45] thats it [23:45] well, use whatever filesystem you think would be best for your *data* [23:45] New bug: #1012911 in libcommons-cli-java (main) "package libcommons-cli-java (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: cannot access archive: No such file or directory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1012911 [23:45] be it, xfs, ext2/3/4 [23:47] patdk-lap: ok, i want to use ext4 then (performance =D), how simple will it be growing the partition comparing to xfs_grow? [23:48] xfs_grow just grows the partition to the max unalocated space avalable [23:48] same for ext4 [23:49] just as easy to shrink it also [23:49] though, you can grow while using the it, but you can't shrink it while using it [23:51] xfs cant shrink thats the problem [23:52] so [23:52] i just mkfs.ext4 on my /dev/md0 [23:52] and do my stuff [23:52] no lvm on the mux [23:52] mix [23:53] sure [23:53] if you wanted to *partition* it, then you would mix in lvm [23:53] thats the only case to use lvm then? [23:53] no [23:53] i dont get why ppl always recomend lvm [23:53] xD [23:54] if you wanted to do snapshots [23:54]