[06:54] <AlanBell> ali1234: some atom boards are 2048 if you consider that modern
[07:02] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:08] <diplo> Morning all
[07:11] <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18419231 linus on the beeb
[07:35] <diplo> Good read AlanBell
[07:48] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[07:58] <diplo> morning brobostigon
[07:58] <brobostigon> morning diplo
[08:05] <czajkowski> morning
[08:08] <directhex> BADGER
[08:09] <brobostigon> hedgehog
[08:11] <DJones> 40 Tonne truck....Squelch
[08:16] <bigcalm> Goooooooooooood morning you lovely techies :)
[08:23] <dwatkins> good morning one and all
[08:23] <bigcalm> Ah, life
[08:24] <dwatkins> Don't talk to me about life </Marvin>
[08:24] <bigcalm> :)
[08:25] <czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/200246  anyone want to help a new user out
[08:30] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[08:41] <popey> czajkowski: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx
[08:50] <s-fox> Hello.
[08:54] <bigcalm> Good morning - this time with coffee
[09:05] <Ross____> what do I need to know to feel comfortable in a linux sys admin job?
[09:05] <Ross____> I so badly want one
[09:06] <Ross____> I learnt a scripting language and bash, I play around with distributions
[09:07] <mungojerry> Ross____, learn the RHCE course
[09:07] <mungojerry> go throug the syllabus and buy the RHCE book
[09:07] <Ross____> ahhhh cheers!
[09:07] <Ross____> :D
[09:08] <Ross____> Sounds like fun
[09:08] <mungojerry> and learn to follow instructions exactly, and always check and double check before making changes, and have a backout plan for when trhings go wrong
[09:08] <mungojerry> and do "fun projects" at home, and learn to enjoy mundane stuff, and always document stuff
[09:09] <Ross____> always docment stuff? Hmmm sound advice :)
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> docuwhat?
[09:09] <Ross____> document
[09:10] <Ross____> I think in six months when I probably will know even more than I do now, I am just going to apply for entery linux sys admin jobs anyway
[09:11] <mungojerry> i still wouldn't (and didn't in the past) hire a sysadmin who knows loads about linux , but lacks the personal qualities to do good work and not break stuff
[09:14] <mungojerry> and don't use customised anything unless absolutely necessary i.e. stock hardware and stock kernel
[09:15] <mungojerry> i get annoyed when i see people patching mysql and kernel for frivolous reasons, and then becoming a mysql maintainer just for themselves, having to patch every release
[09:15] <Ross____> The Linux Documentation Project is fantastic
[09:15] <mungojerry> also, there's a debian administrator's manual which has just been released
[09:16] <mungojerry> on a pay as you like download (inckluding free)
[09:18] <Ross____> There is one thing i am avoiding
[09:18] <Ross____> and that's using vim or emacs
[09:18] <Ross____> I mean, there isn't much time :(
[09:18] <DJones> Just been asked to recommend an app for editing word and excel on an iPad.... Why ask me, I have an Android tablet?
[09:20] <mgdm> Ross____: the advantage of vim is that it's installed *everywhere*
[09:20] <mungojerry> and it's easy to learn the basics
[09:20] <mgdm> Ross____: so if you can do basic text editing in that, you'll be ok on any random system, which might not have nano or whatever
[09:20] <mungojerry> just buy the vim mug
[09:21] <Ross____> hmmmm well I may reconsider
[09:23] <diplo> Defo, vi basics are quite simple.. just google vi cheat sheet
[09:23] <diplo> All you need for day to day
[09:23] <dwatkins> I made a point of learning vi and emacs at least to the extent of being able to write a small file, in case I needed to do that in order to install another text editor. I ended up sticking with vi and I still use it all the time now, 20 years later.
[09:24] <diplo> I *had* to learn vi, all that was installed on our AIX box at work, and we weren't allowed to install anything else
[09:24] <dwatkins> yeahm, I quickly discovered that vi is ubiquitous.
[09:24] <diplo> I'm still no master by any means, but use it everyday
[09:24] <dwatkins> there are some amazing things you can do with vi, but my brain can't handle half of them ;)
[09:25] <Ross____> I heard it is a good python editor
[09:25] <dwatkins> syntax hilighting in vi is really handy
[09:25] <Ross____> I still use gedit with an embedded terminal
[09:25] <shauno> in the installer, when I get this purple screen with the logotype and five dots; is there any way to dismiss this screen?
[09:26] <dwatkins> does gedit do this as well, Ross____? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hBuHSXuyA14/Sk3_RwjCtoI/AAAAAAAAAF0/Kp8roNcDhFk/s400/Picture+1.png
[09:28] <Ross____> syntax highlighting?
[09:28] <Ross____> yes
[09:28] <Ross____> depending what theme you set, I guess
[09:28] <diplo> And from the suggestion of RHCE, that's quite hard core to set your goals to
[09:29] <diplo> LPIC is probably a better bet, or Linux+ which gives you the LPIC course certs afaik
[09:30] <KrimZon_2> in 10.04, how do I change the login screen theme?
[09:30] <popey> LolPIC
[09:30] <KrimZon_2> I want to make it so you need to type a username rather than just select one
[09:31] <mgdm> meh, RHCE isn't bad, you can go via the RHCT course first if you want
[09:31] <mgdm> RHCE builds on that
[09:31] <mgdm> I've never come across anywhere that considered the LPI to hold any weight, but RHCE does
[09:32] <mgdm> (NB: this is my own experience)
[09:32] <diplo> yeah, also a lot dearer.. not putting people off whole heartedly(sp?)
[09:32] <diplo> I want to do it, but a few things have stopped me
[09:32] <Ross____> you don't have to do this to get a linux job do you?
[09:33] <mungojerry> or just follow the RHCE syllabus which is printed online, and learn from the textbook
[09:33] <Ross____> some of these seem expensive
[09:33] <Ross____> for the wages I am on
[09:33] <mungojerry> i self learned, and added the certs afterwards to prove it
[09:33] <diplo> Ross____: I've worked on Unix/Linux on and off for ten years and haven't taken any course
[09:33] <diplo> So no, it's not needed
[09:34] <diplo> I'm intending to do what mungojerry says once I have some free cash
[09:40] <bigcalm> Just made myself the most perfect pot noodle ever
[09:40] <bigcalm> So happy
[09:41] <popey> 10:40 pot noodle?
[09:41] <Laney> 10:40 — pot noodle break
[09:41] <popey> if I ever have pot noodle I under-cook it, like the pasta a bit crispy
[09:41]  * Laney cleans bigcalm's windows
[09:41] <Ross____> So how should I document new things I discover?
[09:42] <Ross____> what's the best way to do it ?
[09:42] <KrimZon_2> ahh, apparently it's plymouth
[09:42] <bigcalm> popey: I rarely eat breakfast, this was an energy requirement
[09:42] <popey> ah
[09:42] <popey> i made two poached eggs on toast for brekkie
[09:42] <popey> yummy
[09:43] <Ross____> slamming it into a document sounds boring to me
[09:44] <bigcalm> Ross____: doing actions over and over again every day will embed themselves into your memory
[09:44] <mgdm> I hadn't had a pot noodle in many years until last week
[09:44] <mgdm> I had a craving for one of the curry ones
[09:44] <diplo> bigcalm: Pot Noodles are the work of some very dodgey people! Don't do that to yourself :(
[09:44] <bigcalm> Ross____: without looking it up, how do you extract a bz2 tarball?
[09:45] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: server administration is an open book test :P
[09:45] <diplo> Ross____: I'm learning 'simple' at the moment, a in house programming language.. I use google docs to write down stuff to point me in the right directions but not the whole answer
[09:45] <bigcalm> Time's up: tar zjvf foo.tar.bz2
[09:46] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: fair enough, but one should still know day to day commands without having to look in a man page :)
[09:46] <dogmatic69> I have to look up tar.gz decompression *EVERY TIME*
[09:46] <dogmatic69> :/
[09:47] <dogmatic69> as far as my brain is concerned its something like tar -djfsklgasjdflaksd file.tar.gz
[09:47] <popey> bigcalm: zj?
[09:47] <bigcalm> popey: no, my mistake :D
[09:47] <popey> also
[09:47] <popey> no need ☺
[09:47] <bigcalm> hehe
[09:47] <popey> tar autodetects these days
[09:47] <bigcalm> It does? :(
[09:47] <popey> it does ☺
[09:48] <popey> so you dont need the j or or the z
[09:48] <bigcalm> I have to force myself to replace x with c when I'm creating a tarball. Early morning confusion made me replace x with j
[09:51] <bigcalm> Pot noodle be gone :(
[09:51] <bigcalm> Sounds like I've just banished it
[09:54] <diplo> lol popey I didn't know that either, learn something new every day as the old adage goes
[09:58] <popey> AlanBell: scaling that image down by 4 massively detracts from your point
[10:01] <AlanBell> I didn't think it did, but I will put the full size version up at some point then
[10:01] <bigcalm> The pointer looks odd as well
[10:01] <dwatkins> hooray, I shall be building a Lego Pi case this evening
[10:02] <bigcalm> Humm, shall I sneak in a little more of Limbo?
[10:02] <AlanBell> bigcalm: yeah, it got scaled by accident, I didn't realise it was there until after. My point was about the launcher and panel so I didn't think it mattered
[10:02] <popey> well, it's inaccurate. "this is what it looks like". "no, it doesn't", "you missed my point", "you lied" ☺
[10:03] <AlanBell> gah
[10:03]  * AlanBell will do a better image
[10:03]  * bigcalm hugs AlanBell
[10:03] <diplo> :)
[10:03] <AlanBell> and the launcher and panel will be the same proportion to the desktop as in the mockup
[10:20] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/screenshots/unityretinafull.png happy now?
[10:20] <bigcalm> That's big
[10:21] <mungojerry> as for documentation, i use tomboy synced across machines for quick notes, and then add them to a wiki (twiki or docuwiki) for others on friday afternoons
[10:21] <mungojerry> woops, ross____ has gone
[10:21] <directhex> AlanBell, that's missing the point of retina display isn't it? idea is to scale so it "feels like" 1920x1200, but with better detail
[10:21] <mungojerry> i use psr on windows, which is one of the best apps i know, and wish it was on linux
[10:22] <AlanBell> directhex: yes, my entire point was that Ubuntu won't look particularly useable on such displays unless some scaling is done
[10:22]  * AlanBell is surprised at the number of ways such a point can be missed!
[10:22] <bigcalm> :)
[10:23] <directhex> new father. mental scrollback limit is ~10 lines
[10:23] <bigcalm> directhex: getting any sleep at night?
[10:23] <AlanBell> you are forgiven, and context was spread across mailing lists and G+
[10:24] <popey> well i saw it first on G+
[10:24] <popey> and it wasn't explained well at all there
[10:24] <directhex> bigcalm, a few hours
[10:24] <directhex> non-sequentially
[10:25] <diplo> heh, children are great
[10:25] <diplo> Don't worry, it doesn't get better as they get older
[10:26] <bigcalm> Yeah, I'll keep my sanity and get a cat/dog in a few years
[10:26] <diplo> :)
[10:26] <diplo> Not sure about that, my sister just got a 9 week old puppy
[10:27] <diplo> Been getting her up at 04:30 each morning for a wee
[10:27] <diplo> Amongst nibbling her toes to make sure she is awake
[10:27] <mungojerry> put newspaper down?
[10:28] <diplo> I think she prefers to be woke up as at least the dog knows it needs to pee outside
[10:28] <bigcalm> Hayley can look after the puppy. I'll cuttle the kitten
[10:28] <diplo> heh, I'd say kittens are worse than pups
[10:28] <bigcalm> Cuttle?
[10:28] <diplo> Rip the place to shreds whilst they are learning
[10:29]  * mungojerry is still in desktop limbo after quitting unity again
[10:29] <mungojerry> KDE looks stable now but i think i've moved on
[10:32] <popey> you change desktop more often than I mow my lawn
[10:32] <directhex> how opften do you mow your lawn?
[10:34] <diplo> mungojerry: I was using Cinnamon but that was crashing to much
[10:34] <diplo> Gone back to Gnome Fallback
[10:35] <diplo> Stable works all the time
[10:35] <mungojerry> i've been on gnome 2 since about 2003
[10:35] <bigcalm> I've spent the morning writing documentation and feel that I've wasted my morning
[10:36] <czajkowski> pah
[10:36] <bigcalm> czajkowski: I write code, not docs!
[10:36] <mungojerry> bigcalm, whoever succeeds you will thank you in your absnce
[10:36] <bigcalm> :O
[10:36] <mungojerry> so put your name on it :D
[10:37] <czajkowski> bigcalm: you should always do both.
[10:37] <mungojerry> i would definitely be using gnome3 right now if it wasn't a collection of the most bizarre decisions ever made
[10:38] <mungojerry> diplo, i'm on fallback atm
[10:38] <mungojerry> has a few quirks though
[10:38]  * AlanBell is on unity and lxde on the raspberry pi
[10:38] <gord> developers are always the worst documentation writers
[10:38] <mungojerry> checkgmail and pidgin don't work in the notification area, and some weird window behaviour
[10:38] <bigcalm> Actually, I need to refactor the documentation for this API I wrote. Is there a suggested format for API documentation?
[10:38] <AlanBell> would like to run unity on the pi
[10:39] <gord> bigcalm, doxygen style works well, as long as doxygen supports your language
[10:39] <gord> AlanBell, you are on unity and lxde?
[10:39] <bigcalm> gord: I don't need an automated one. Just need to re-write the document I've already written in a more consistent style
[10:40] <AlanBell> gord: unity on my laptop and lxde on the pi
[10:40] <mungojerry> is it true about the helicopters looking for green lawns and hosepipes?
[10:40] <gord> AlanBell, unity2d no worky?
[10:41] <AlanBell> gord: not tried building it yet, I was waiting for popey to do it
[10:42] <mungojerry> how is the raspi performance wise?
[10:42] <mungojerry> running lxde
[10:42] <mungojerry> similar to an eee pc 701?
[10:43] <gord> oh right yeah, because the pi is the old arm architecture
[10:43] <popey> mungojerry: its the same as an iphone 3
[10:44] <dogmatic69> Just tried to install php5-gd and got this warning:
[10:44] <dogmatic69> WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!
[10:44] <dogmatic69>   libxpm4 libgd2-xpm libt1-5
[10:44] <mungojerry> popey, i've never run ubuntu on an iphone though.
[10:44] <mungojerry> eeepc felt quite sluggish
[10:44] <dogmatic69> first time I have seen that, is it ok?
[10:44] <mungojerry> the keyboard was quite laggy sometimes
[10:44] <popey> my kids both run 12.04 + unity 2d on an Eee 900
[10:44] <popey> 900Mhz Celeron, 2GB RAM
[10:45] <mungojerry> hmm, same spec
[10:45] <popey> dogmatic69: getting those from a ppa?
[10:45] <dogmatic69> no
[10:45] <dogmatic69> just apt-get install
[10:45] <popey> no, the 701 is underclocked to 600MHa
[10:45] <popey> *MHz
[10:45] <dogmatic69> no ppa's
[10:45] <popey> 660 or so
[10:45] <mungojerry> although every time i updated my eeepc the cpu freq governor needed setting up differently
[10:46] <dogmatic69> http://mirror.rackspace.com/ubuntu/ precise/main libgd2-xpm
[10:46] <mungojerry> the eeepc was the last time i allowed myself to be early adopter man
[10:47] <mungojerry> i have no use for raspi at the mo that my slug doesn't do, but later on i'd like a raspi on my telly
[10:47] <mungojerry> but want a faster version
[10:47] <mungojerry> since xbmc doesn't even run properly on my powerpc mac mini
[10:48] <popey> xbmc works okay on my pi
[10:48] <popey> played with it last night with a boxee remote
[10:48] <AlanBell> mungojerry: it performs fine, the CPU is slow, the GPU is fast, I am using it to do ssh stuff in terminals so nothing taxing
[10:48] <mungojerry> i couldn't even get past the first screen on the powerpc. must be the decent gpu
[10:49] <gord> will wait until they upgrade the cpu before replacing my revos, can't be doing with building stuff myself
[11:03] <diplo> I might order my Rasp this week actually
[11:03] <diplo> everyone talking about them
[11:03] <diplo> :)
[11:05] <popey> damn you bigcalm, I'm off to the co-op to get a pot noodle!
[11:06] <popey> although i may be tempted by other things in there..
[11:06] <bigcalm> Bwuhaha :D
[11:06] <diplo> Nooooo! Pot Noodles are evil
[11:07] <bigcalm> And I'm off to subway to get a Chicken Pizziola
[11:07] <diplo> Then again I'm off for a Boatmans breakfast, so I am not one to say about eating healthily
[11:07] <czajkowski> pot noodles reminds me of college and my mates living away from home used to live on them
[11:07] <diplo> Horrible things!
[11:07] <mungojerry> i appear to have no way of seeing my contacts list in pidgin
[11:08] <mungojerry> just the auto opened windows
[11:08] <popey> http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/about-us/consultations/equal-civil-marriage/
[11:08] <popey> offtopic but meh, so is pot noodle ☺
[11:09] <popey> (no need for discussion, just making sure people see it)
[11:09] <KrimZon_2> does anyone know how to change the login menu to require a username to be typed in rather than just selected?
[11:20] <KrimZon_2> aha: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1609008
[11:22]  * czajkowski hugs popey 
[11:54]  * popey has chicken soup
[11:56] <MartijnVdS> poor chicken
[11:57] <AlanBell> I hardly ever feed my chickens on soup
[12:00] <popey> that was yum
[12:01] <czajkowski> oh exciting , I'll be going to my old college next year and giving a talk on how to translate packages/applications into other lanauges using Launchpad, and hopefully going to be giving a talk to some secondary school students :)
[12:01] <KrimZon_2> yum install soup
[12:53] <diplo> Couldn't eat another thing!
[13:22]  * bigcalm nods to mrmist
[13:31] <diplo> Beat you to it popey :D
[13:31] <popey> heh
[13:32] <popey> didnt realise that was you!
[13:32] <diplo> o/
[13:32] <diplo> Yeah that ugly git, really need some new photos taken of me for my profiles
[13:33] <diplo> Only thing I hate about posting to busy comments is the notifications
[13:33] <diplo> :)
[13:35] <AlanBell> popey: as luck would have it OMG have nicely explained my point for me
[13:36] <popey> \o/
[13:38] <gord> for what its worth, the dash resizes to try and fit nicely on large displays and the launcher can be configured to be larger. panel can't but that's a few lines of code to put in a configure option
[13:39] <gord> i'm more worried about trying to grab window borders at that dpi
[13:51]  * czajkowski peers at gord leave my window border on it's lonesome
[13:55] <bigcalm> It's currently a pixel hunt in xubuntu
[13:56] <gord> yeah, in compiz we put a fake window around your window that lets you have a few extra pixels that you can resize your window by. its an X issue really
[13:57] <AlanBell> it is a people who write themes with no borders issue :)
[13:58] <AlanBell> bring on wayland
[13:58] <AlanBell> and *real* shadows
[14:02] <ali1234> and absolutely no ability to change the window manager at all
[14:03] <ali1234> seriously though, i do find it funny that people would pay a $1000 premium to get a screen where you can't read anything because the DPI is ridiculously high
[14:03] <AlanBell> yeah, the fact that windows draw their own decoration is a bit odd
[14:03] <AlanBell> I would pay for that screen
[14:03] <AlanBell> and run unmodified 12.04 on it tbh
[14:03] <ali1234> AlanBell: they don't just draw their own decoration. the whole window manager is built into the server
[14:04] <ali1234> imagine having to patch xorg if you want a tiling WM. that's wayland
[14:04] <ali1234> i would buy a 2880x1800 screen if it was 40"
[14:04] <AlanBell> I don't want a tiling WM, I want real shadows.
[14:04] <ali1234> anything less than that and it is stupid
[14:05] <ali1234> your screenshot is unreadable on a 24" monitor
[14:06] <ali1234> but really though, you could always use one of the actually finished desktops
[14:07] <gord> uh, so. you increase text scaling to conform to your dpi
[14:07] <gord> its not like you stick with a tiny 10pixel font
[14:07] <ali1234> yeah
[14:08] <ali1234> believe it or not, there are actually desktop environments that do that for you automatically
[14:08] <ali1234> for example gnome, kde
[14:08] <AlanBell> shoudl get dpi from the EDID information I think
[14:08] <gord> gnome never did, it was terrible at getting your dpi. didn't have one machine that it ever managed to set automatically
[14:09] <ali1234> yeah, that's just nonsense
[14:09] <gord> now they removed the dpi option and you are just left with scaling
[14:09] <AlanBell> EDID does often lie
[14:09] <ali1234> not EDID. it;s the drivers
[14:10] <gord> i've had edid lie to me a lot, with tv's especially
[14:13] <ali1234> what's the actual DPI of it? 204?
[14:15] <davmor2> ali1234: I've have EDID report a size of x=1024x768 y=1024x768  trust me EDID lies it depends which manufacture has done it
[14:15] <directhex> EDID lies, but so do drivers
[14:15] <ali1234> uh-hu
[14:15] <AlanBell> 220 apparently, I thought it was 204 but I got it worng
[14:15] <AlanBell> wrong
[14:16] <directhex> i've had some drivers able to get correct EDID, and other drivers get wrong EDID, from the same device, on the same hardware, via the same cable
[14:16] <ali1234> you do know that EDID reports horizontal and vertical refresh rates right? it's up to the video card to decide the actual modes
[14:17] <AlanBell> also reports physical screen size
[14:17] <AlanBell> badly
[14:17] <AlanBell> lots of TVs claim to be a 7 inch panel
[14:17] <ali1234> TVs are very bad
[14:17] <directhex> TVs are super bad
[14:17] <ali1234> but we're not talking about TVs, we're talking about a $2000 laptop
[14:18] <directhex> partly because of 1366x768, which is not a valid mode, so the TV has to lie by definition
[14:18] <ali1234> what is not valid about it?
[14:19] <directhex> 1366 is not divisible by 8, so most cards can't output it. hence most 1366x768 tvs either scale by 6 pixels, or have a 3 pixel letterbox either side, and only accept 1360x768 as a mode
[14:20] <ali1234> i see
[14:20] <bigcalm> davmor2: ping
[14:20] <directhex> of course, in 2012, all tvs should just do 1080p
[14:20] <davmor2> bigcalm: you pinged
[14:21] <ali1234> that explains why so many people have problems using HDTVs in linux tbh
[14:22] <popey> 1080p... with overscan
[14:22] <directhex> overscan /o\
[14:23] <bigcalm> davmor2: a) what time are we having pie, b) want a lift on my way though Wolves?
[14:23] <bigcalm> Bloody overscan
[14:24] <directhex> who thought overscan was useful on digital displays?
[14:24] <bigcalm> through
[14:24] <directhex> any hdmi device requesting it should be returned a flashing HD "feck off" image
[14:28] <davmor2> bigcalm: a) when everybody gets there, b) no ta I might need to dash off, but thanks for the offer
[14:28] <bigcalm> davmor2: fair enough. I'll aim for 7.30 as usual then
[14:28] <bigcalm> Ooo, looks like rain \o/
[14:29] <diplo> Guys thoughts on this please..
[14:29] <davmor2> bigcalm: yeap then we tend to hang around till every who says they are coming gets there then order as it is 2 for 1 on Wednesdays unless they have changed it  so we all pair up and split the pie bill
[14:29] <bigcalm> Oooo
[14:29] <diplo> We have customers who want back ups to usb devices
[14:30] <bigcalm> diplo: if they are mains powered, sounds fair enough
[14:30] <diplo> So we have written bash scripts that want to mount as usb1 dir or usb2
[14:30] <davmor2> diplo: doddle standard ups unit and a usb plug
[14:31] <diplo> I've used uuid to identify devices
[14:31] <diplo> But we don't want to automount so fstab is set to noauto
[14:31] <ali1234> what does mains power and UPS have to do with this?
[14:31] <diplo> So as ali1234 pointed out to me yesterday mount -a won't work
[14:31] <bigcalm> I'm confused
[14:31] <diplo> How would you work out what device was plugged in to mount
[14:32] <ali1234> if won't work *if* you put noauto in fstab
[14:32] <ali1234> so don't put noauto in fstab...
[14:32] <bigcalm> Oh, backups, not back UPS
[14:32] <ali1234> anyway just use udisks
[14:32]  * bigcalm goes back to sleep
[14:32] <directhex> autofs!
[14:32] <diplo> OK, udisks, I will google now
[14:32] <diplo> I'm sure I had a quick look at autofs
[14:33] <diplo> Will relook at that aswell
[14:33] <diplo> Want a better solution, as ours sucks.. I only did part of it.. but keeps failing as logic sucks
[14:33] <ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/autoflash
[14:34] <diplo> Past my level of python, but taking a look now thanks ali1234
[14:35] <ali1234> "we want to hand out usb flash drives with some files on at a conference. here's a box of 1000 blank usb flash drives and the files are in your email"
[14:36] <diplo> ah right so the format part was for a particular reason not recommended reason. So could remove that..
[14:36] <diplo> I will have a play I think
[14:37] <diplo> No special dependencies with the imports ?
[14:58] <Twinkletoes> The ubuntu nagios packages seem to be a fair way behind what nagios offer on their website.  Precise repos have 3.2.3, and the nagios website has 3.4.1 which has quite a lot of fixes over 3.2.3.  Would you advise going with the package from teh nagios website?
[14:58] <diplo> Source Twinkletoes ?
[14:59] <diplo> When i used to idle in the nagios channel and take notice, their package at the time had lot's of issues, and the guys in there recommended using repo packages
[14:59] <diplo> I still use 3.2.3
[14:59] <Twinkletoes> diplo: Ah
[15:00] <diplo> But from memory that was 3.3.* something
[15:00] <diplo> Don't think it was 3.4.*
[15:00] <Twinkletoes> Quite a lot of fixes and enhancements: http://nagios.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/nagios/nagioscore/trunk/Changelog?view=markup
[15:02] <Twinkletoes> I'm running on 10.04 at the moment, so I'm stuck with 3.2.0-4ubuntu2.2 from the repos, unless I can persuade it to use the package from 12.04?
[15:02] <diplo> there is a ppa, but only the nagios-agent has been updated for Precise
[15:02] <Twinkletoes> diplo: ppa?
[15:02] <diplo> For me, unless you have a specific issue with the pacakage I wouldn't upgrade
[15:02] <diplo> https://launchpad.net/~nagiosinc/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=precise
[15:03] <diplo> Natty was 3.2.3 still on it's build
[15:03] <bigcalm> Peeps in here, would you recomend: gpa or seahorse?
[15:03] <popey> for what?
[15:03] <Twinkletoes> diplo: Thanks :)
[15:03] <bigcalm> Getting started in gpg
[15:03] <diplo> I've been using 3.2.3 for 2 years with no particular issues Twinkletoes
[15:03] <popey> seahorse, given we ship it
[15:03] <bigcalm> I want to sign my emails and only just reading https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
[15:03] <popey> ahh
[15:04] <popey> i use thunderbird and some plugin
[15:04] <diplo> And it seems they haven't made lot's of additions, just approvements
[15:04] <bigcalm> I have thunderbird and the gpg plugin. But I need to set up keys :)
[15:05] <popey> ah yeah, use seahorse
[15:05] <bigcalm> Ta
[15:06] <Laney> keep a safe and secure copy of the revocation certificate!
[15:07] <Azelphur> EVGA GTX 680 Classified comes with water blocks at stock :o
[15:07]  * Azelphur wants
[15:07] <bigcalm> Laney: I'll print it out ;)
[15:07] <Laney> imagine typing one of those things in :(
[15:08] <bigcalm> We used to type in programs from MicroUser et al
[15:10] <davmor2> bigcalm: +1 for using seahorse
[15:10]  * bigcalm goes for a shower while the keys are generated :S
[15:10] <directhex> Azelphur, there have been gpus with manufacturer waterblocks for years
[15:10] <Azelphur> true, but this is a GTX 680 and it has quad screen support \o/
[15:10] <popey> what is a waterblock?
[15:11] <directhex> popey, for water cooling
[15:11] <directhex> popey, it's a specially shaped copper (usually) block which clamps to the graphics card instead of heatsink/fan, and the internal water channels are optimized for coolant flow
[15:11] <popey> cunning
[15:12] <AlanBell> silver would be better ;)
[15:12] <Azelphur> I have a nickel one :o
[15:13] <directhex> e.g. http://photos.dangerden.com/GPU-Blocks/GTX680/i-cVJ59FH/0/L/IMGP1559-L.jpg
[15:13] <directhex> AlanBell, the main thing is to pick a metal which suffers from minimal corrosion, and maximum heat transfer. and to never mix metals in the same system
[15:13] <directhex> AlanBell, e.g. stray copper and aluminium in the same water system will fur up overnight
[15:14] <popey> golly
[15:14] <Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120613_161238.jpg here's my CPU water block, just took this photo :D
[15:15] <directhex> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=91402&stc=1&d=1230125543 is a cpu block where someone mixed alu and copper
[15:15] <Azelphur> clearly need to get that finger print off it :P
[15:16] <Azelphur> directhex: my loop is growing that crap too :(
[15:16] <directhex> Azelphur, what are all the devices in your loop made from? sounds like you've got a mix
[15:16] <Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120606_204531.jpg here's mine xD
[15:17] <Azelphur> directhex: EK Supreme HF Nickel, and a Black Ice GTX 480 but not sure what it's made of
[15:18] <directhex> the cpu block is plated copper
[15:18] <Azelphur> ah
[15:19] <directhex> the rad is copper
[15:20] <Azelphur> everything is copper then?
[15:20] <directhex> nickel shouldn't be reactive
[15:20] <Azelphur> yet still growing life forms :(
[15:20] <directhex> what water are you using?
[15:20] <Azelphur> distilled water with biocide
[15:20] <directhex> reservoir?
[15:21] <Azelphur> XSPC DDC Bay - Acrylic Dual 5.25 Reservoir
[15:21] <directhex> hm
[15:22] <directhex> sounds like you're doing all the right things, tbh
[15:22] <Azelphur> yay
[15:22] <Azelphur> I figured perhaps that stuff was algea so I poured a bunch more biocide into the loop recently
[15:22] <Azelphur> is there anything that might clear it from the system?
[15:23] <directhex> not sure. i never had the guts to actually deploy a water system. just researched it a lot
[15:23] <directhex> ended up with low noise air instead
[15:23] <Azelphur> hehe, it's been a fun adventure
[15:24] <Azelphur> will be cool once it's done, as I should never really have to touch it after that
[15:24] <popey> cool!
[15:27] <davmor2> Azelphur: look like limes scale you should be able to treat it with scale remover the only way I know to keep it removed currently is with some strong magnets attached to the pipework but I guess that isn't the answer you are looking for
[15:27] <Azelphur> sure, I can do a strong magnet somewhere in the loop
[15:28] <Azelphur> how does that work, collect it so you can remove it?
[15:28] <AlanBell> heh, so when it blocks you know where the blockage is
[15:29] <directhex> strong magnets in a pc? foolproof!
[15:29] <davmor2> Azelphur: Nope it is done on household pipe work and just means the limescale doesn't bond to itself
[15:29] <davmor2> directhex: that was kinda my point :)
[15:30] <Azelphur> oh cool
[15:30] <Azelphur> would that remove the existing limescale too?
[15:30] <Azelphur> I could put a huge magnet on the radiator, that wouldn't be an issue at all
[15:31] <Azelphur> or perhaps on the res, although that might be a bit close to the HDDs for my liking :P
[15:31] <popey> \o/ ssd
[15:32] <Azelphur> got one of them too, I have 5 HDDs total
[15:32] <davmor2> Azelphur: it will but it takes a while, It's fun watching ours reduce the limescale on our kettle, the kettle is slowly getting silver-erererer
[15:32] <Azelphur> nice
[15:33] <Azelphur> davmor2 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120606_225647.jpg is my setup
[15:33] <Azelphur> so I could just place a magnet on the top of the radiator
[15:33] <oimon> :( installing lubuntu-desktop doesn't give me the same experience as installing just lubuntu. any suggestions? very glitchy desktop session otherwise
[15:34] <Azelphur> half-done setup anyway
[15:35] <davmor2> Azelphur: what are you doing with that box that it requires that?
[15:35] <Azelphur> nothing really, I'd probably get along just fine with high performance air cooling
[15:35] <Azelphur> but, it looks cool and is fun
[15:37] <Azelphur> davmor2 plus I can overclock to ridiculous levels, having a faster computer is always useful
[15:40]  * AlanBell decideds to strap some water cooling to a raspberry pi
[15:40] <AlanBell> or just dunk it in a bucket
[15:40] <popey> booted up my beaglebone last night
[15:40] <popey> shame it doesnt have hdmi
[15:41]  * Azelphur has to wander for dinner anyway :p
[15:41] <Azelphur> AlanBell: look up submersive oil cooling, I was so very tempted.
[15:42] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: cooking oil? :P
[15:46] <ali1234> i just tested DPI handling in kde, gnome 3, gnome 3 fallback, and MATE
[15:46] <ali1234> and of course MATE is the only one that works properly
[15:47] <ali1234> KDE tries but just ends up looking like a mess due to allowing developers to switch between pixel and point sizes at will, so you get dialogs where half the writing is tiny and half is huge
[15:48] <oimon> did you take screenshots ali1234
[15:48] <ali1234> anything based on gtk3 completely overrides display DPI and forces it to be 95
[15:48] <ali1234> oimon: yes, i did
[15:48] <oimon> gonna write a blog post?
[15:48] <ali1234> maybe
[15:49] <oimon> i'm tempted to trash my work PC and use lubuntu full time
[15:49] <oimon> shame i can't seem to get it to co-exist on my ubuntu setup
[15:49] <ali1234> basically the conclusion i have drawn is that if you want a properly working desktop, you should use MATE
[15:50] <ali1234> specifically the problem with all the others is they've been taken over by UI designers who think anything they don't understand is superfluous
[15:50] <czajkowski> Bug Linking Part 2 -  http://blog.launchpad.net/general/bug-linking-part-2
[15:50] <oimon> did you try lxde?
[15:50] <ali1234> no
[15:50] <czajkowski> please do be reading that :)
[15:50] <ali1234> i didn't try xfce either
[15:50] <oimon> how do you change DPI?
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> buying a new screen
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> increasing resolution on current screen dimensions?
[15:51] <ali1234> in xorg.conf you put option "useediddpi" "false"
[15:51] <ali1234> option "dpi" "204 x 204"
[15:53] <oimon> lxde is flippin fast
[15:58] <oimon> linus torvalds won the millenium tech prize
[15:59] <oimon> joint winner meh
[16:00] <bigcalm> Would it not have been meh if he won it all to himself?
[16:00] <oimon> dunno
[16:00] <oimon> linux is about sharing i guess
[16:08] <bigcalm> That should be gpg sorted out now then
[16:10] <AlanBell> with powerline networking why does the electricity meter block the signal and prevent it leaking to next door?
[16:10] <bigcalm> It doesn't
[16:10] <AlanBell> I mean on a technical basis, apparently it does do this, I can't see how
[16:10] <bigcalm> But next door will be on a different phase
[16:10] <bigcalm> General rule of thumb is every 3rd house in the street will be on the same phase
[16:11] <bigcalm> What will mess it up are UPS and surge protectors (I think)
[16:11] <popey> AlanBell: it doesnt
[16:12] <popey> bigcalm: have you uploaded your key?
[16:12] <bigcalm> popey: Good point, maybe not :)
[16:12] <AlanBell> http://www.faculty-x.net/homeplug-blog/?p=4 bad FAQ then
[16:13]  * bigcalm does so
[16:14] <popey> AlanBell: they all come with encryption these days
[16:16] <bigcalm> popey: done
[16:17] <bigcalm> Feel free to sign my public key ;)
[16:17] <popey> nope
[16:17] <bigcalm> Not working?
[16:17] <popey> no, I'm not signing some random key
[16:17] <popey> how do I know it's yours?
[16:17] <bigcalm> Good lad
[16:17] <ali1234> oimon: i posted screenshot: https://plus.google.com/u/0/117474986382867317779/posts
[16:18] <ali1234> +s
[16:20] <directhex> ali1234, tried today's bastion build? should have joypads
[16:20] <ali1234> i dunno, is it on software centre?
[16:20] <ali1234> if it isn't, then i haven't
[16:24] <bigcalm> popey: have you been able to decrypt the email yet?
[16:24] <popey> yeah, i did ages ago
[16:24] <bigcalm> Oh, good
[16:24] <popey> just wanted to reply but couldn't cos your key wasnt public
[16:25] <bigcalm> It is now
[16:28] <bigcalm> How frequently does the ubuntu keyserver update?
[16:29] <czajkowski> AlanBell: lot of folks use google docs to draw up wireframes
[16:29] <czajkowski> or is it google draw
[16:29] <czajkowski> hmm one of em
[16:30] <bigcalm> In a weird way, I like getting stuck in Limbo. Not once yet looked at a walk through and slowly making progress :D
[16:30] <bigcalm> Any other games like Limbo peeps can recommend?
[16:32] <AlanBell> czajkowski: interesting, I have never used that, though I use the other bits of google docs
[16:32] <AlanBell> doesn't seem particularly well adapted to GUI design
[16:33] <czajkowski> saw some folks use it for mock up recently
[16:33] <directhex> ali1234, doesn't look like it, although USC version numbers are different to upstream
[16:33] <czajkowski> looked very poished
[16:33] <czajkowski> *polished
[16:33] <czajkowski> AlanBell: they culd create their images and save them for future so just reuse them
[16:34] <AlanBell> ah, so not using the built in shapes
[16:34]  * bigcalm pokes keyserver
[16:36] <czajkowski> bigcalm: how long ago ?
[16:36] <czajkowski> AlanBell: well yes in some cases, but in others, creaating the image you're going to reuse over and over to save you have to create it
[16:36] <bigcalm> czajkowski: more than 15 mins ago
[16:37] <bigcalm> czajkowski: One of my keys is up there
[16:37] <popey> bigcalm: limbo is a very nice little game, i like it
[16:37] <bigcalm> Oh, both are now :)
[16:37] <czajkowski> bigcalm: patience so :) can take a while to updated
[16:37] <AlanBell> czajkowski: yeah, I still like pencil but I can see the co-editing in google docs is quite handy
[16:37] <czajkowski> AlanBell: not seen anyone co-edit, though the possibility is there
[16:37] <AlanBell> co-editing in pencil would be even better
[16:37]  * bigcalm scratches his head
[16:38] <bigcalm> I only get my cuth.eu key in a search result on my name. But if I search by the key hex id, I can see my idophp.co.uk key
[16:39] <bigcalm> Maybe it caches searches
[16:39] <bigcalm> Just capitalised my names and it now shows both keys :)
[16:42] <bigcalm> Hazar! Just got key into launchpad
[16:47] <bigcalm> Bah, gmail on android doesn't do gpg
[16:47] <bigcalm> Do iOS devices?
[16:49] <popey> dunno, not tried
[16:50] <davmor2> bigcalm: have a look at firegpg plugin for firfox and see if it is available on android and use FF to access your gmail and use the FF firegpg plugin
[16:50] <davmor2> bigcalm: the other thing to look for is pgp rather than gpg
[16:50] <czajkowski> http://niederfamily.blogspot.be/2012/06/silencing-of-maya.html  one of the most sadest blog posts I've read in a long time :(
[16:50] <bigcalm> Indeed. I used pgp a _long_ time ago
[16:52] <bigcalm> ACK!
[16:52] <bigcalm> I haven't got my laptop ready for tomorrow
[16:52] <davmor2> bigcalm: print off your key and bring you driving license tomorrow and I'll sign your key :)
[16:52] <bigcalm> Really don't want to do it after midnight tonight
[16:52] <bigcalm> davmor2: hehe, sure. I read that bit and thought about doing so :P
[16:54] <davmor2> bigcalm: there is a nice gpg signing party script some where out there that gives you an nice a4 page of important info for you to hand out
[16:55] <bigcalm> One of the best guitar intros ever: The Smiths - How Soon Is Now?
[17:17] <davmor2> bigcalm: Guns 'n' Roses Paradise city, AC/DC Thunderstruck, Led Zeplin "Stairway to heaven", guns 'n' roses knockin' on heavens door, Jimi Hendrix Voodoo Child or All along the watch tower I could go on but don't have time :P
[17:18] <directhex> ali1234, 2012-06-12 build works for me, joypadwise. with my 360 pad.
[18:06] <ali1234> how do i report a bug when i have a crash dump and exact steps to reproduce?
[18:06] <ali1234> when i try to use ubuntu-bug it just files a whoopsie report and does not ask me for any details
[18:46] <ging> is there a flash update that has stopped bbc iplayer working on ubuntu?
[18:47] <ali1234> no, it works fine here
[18:48] <ging> it's now saying i need to install flash player
[18:48] <ging> i was using it on sunday
[18:52] <ging> why doesn't it work!!!!
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> restart chrome
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> or $browser
[19:01] <ging> i have
[19:01] <ging> firefox
[19:04] <ging> i've installed the lastest package from the adobe website
[19:04] <ging> but i don't understand why the ordinary one was not working
[19:12] <czajkowski> ging: are you breaking things :)
[20:15] <czajkowski> popey: I know you;ve mentioned not being able to see private bugs before but still knowing they are there.  you may want to me too this bug. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/764414
[20:15] <popey> czajkowski: I'm now on bugsquad so I can see private bugs now :D
[20:16] <popey> I have me-too'ed it though ☺
[20:19] <czajkowski> coolio
[20:19] <ali1234> why is psychonauts on software centre for free?
[20:24] <popey> its not here
[20:24] <popey> its 9.99 usd
[20:24] <ali1234> for me it appears twice when i search
[20:25] <ali1234> one for free and one for 9.99, and with different descriptions
[20:25] <ali1234> and which ever one i click they are both listed as "free"
[20:25] <popey> ahh
[20:25] <popey> i havent clicked the button on the special page yet
[20:25] <popey> so I only see the paid one
[20:25] <ali1234> i clicked it last night and left it installing, but this morning it wasn't installed and software centre was gone
[20:26] <ali1234> has anyone tried lone survivor yet?
[20:27] <ali1234> can't get it to work at all, it's a flash projector - that means an ancient version of flash player wrapped into an exe file
[20:27] <ali1234> it spits out a load of errors about menuproxy and then dies
[20:28] <ali1234> btw, none of the other games appear twice in software centre. they only appear as the pay versions
[20:28] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments 0.2 Released - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/13/ubuntu-accomplishments-0-2-released/
[20:40] <popey> right
[20:40] <popey> listen here
[20:40] <popey> what can I do to see which bit of firefox is eating my cpu?
[20:40]  * popey tickles chrisccoulson for an answer
[20:40] <ali1234> which bit?
[20:41] <ali1234> it's always the same bit: flash plugin
[20:41] <ali1234> the rest of ff only likes to eat ram
[20:41] <popey> heh
[20:41] <popey> yeah, i am watching a video on youtube and its stuttering
[20:41] <popey> on a 2.8GHz CPU
[20:41] <ali1234> lol
[20:41] <chrisccoulson> yeah, flashplugin is always the first thing i kill
[20:41] <ali1234> well that's a bad start
[20:42] <chrisccoulson> for memory use, about:memory comes in handy ;)
[20:42] <popey> memory i am less bothered by
[20:43] <popey> its that my cpu is being eaten alive
[20:43] <popey> ~60% by firefox
[20:43] <popey> be nice if it had a tab cpu monitor like chrome
[20:43] <popey> may be time to switch back to chrome again
[20:43] <ali1234> there's a fun bug in pulseaudio where buffer underruns make it max the CPU (probably polling for next buffer)
[20:43] <ali1234> the extra CPU load more or less guarantees the next buffer will be late too
[20:44] <ali1234> so once you've dropped a buffer it goes into a vicious cycle of stuttering
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> until you pause
[20:44] <chrisccoulson> popey, does the CPU drop if you pause the video in youtube?
[20:44] <ali1234> that doesn't work in any application that generates an audio stream on the fly, such as any game
[20:44] <popey> no chrisccoulson
[20:45] <popey> i have lots of other tabs open too
[20:45] <popey> i want to know which ones are eating it
[20:45] <popey> about 40 tabs
[20:45] <ali1234> close tabs until it stops
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> popey, there's not really an easy way short of closing each one in turn to see if it goes away
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> yeah ;)
[20:45] <ali1234> however my guess is it will go down by about 2% for each tab
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> heh
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> who has >4 tabs?
[20:46] <chrisccoulson> it's quite easy for a site to gobble CPU ;)
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> disable javascript!
[20:46] <ali1234> disable images too
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> and plugins
[20:46] <popey> use lynx?
[20:46] <chrisccoulson> images aren't likely to use CPU
[20:46] <ali1234> actually strip all html tags is the best solution
[20:47] <popey> 48%
[20:47] <ali1234> chrisccoulson: unless they're animated gifs
[20:47] <popey> 44% system monitor
[20:47] <chrisccoulson> well, there is that i guess
[20:47] <MartijnVdS> get a better cpu ;)
[20:47] <ali1234> yes
[20:48] <popey>  9160 alan      20   0 3944m 2.3g  22m S   33 30.3   1516:58 firefox
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> 2.3g of ram?!
[20:48] <ali1234> what did i say before about 3ghz quad core being the minimum requirement for a real computer?
[20:48] <ali1234> 2.3g is low for firefox
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> 19341 martijn   20   0  913m 338m  43m S    0  4.3 124:08.80 chrome
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> and that's the largest one
[20:48] <popey> i now have 27 tabs open
[20:48] <ali1234> chrome makes loads of processes
[20:48] <chrisccoulson> 2.3g is definitely not low for firefox. that is abnormally large
[20:49] <ali1234> you probably have another 7 like that using just as much memory
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: not for firefox.
[20:49] <popey> been running for a while
[20:49] <chrisccoulson> i never see it above 600MB here and i keep > 30 tabs open
[20:49] <chrisccoulson> MartijnVdS, that is highly abnormal
[20:49] <chrisccoulson> if it's running like that, then you have a serious problem. i can assure you, it isn't normal ;)
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: exactly
[20:49] <ali1234> chrisccoulson: how much ram do you hav total?
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: firefox eats 4GB usually
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: so 2.3G is low
[20:49] <chrisccoulson> ali1234, 8gb
[20:50] <popey> not sure how to read about:memory
[20:50] <chrisccoulson> MartijnVdS, sorry, but firefox does not eat 4gb usually. if it does for you, then there is something seriously wrong with something on your setup, or with a site you're visiting
[20:51] <chrisccoulson> popey, you can copy/paste it somewhere ;)
[20:51] <ali1234> firefox has that fun switch statement that makes it waste systemram - 0.5gb or whatever
[20:51] <eztk> I agree, I'm running Firefox right now on a 2003 vintage laptop with 768mb ram on lubuntu
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: Chrome stays around 1G, so I'll just use that
[20:51] <chrisccoulson> ali1234, huh?
[20:51] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1039698/
[20:51] <ali1234> i kid you not. there's a switch statement that decides ow much ram it allocates on startup
[20:51] <chrisccoulson> ali1234, no there isn't
[20:52] <ali1234> if there isn't, it's been removed in the past year
[20:52] <chrisccoulson> popey, google+ !!!!
[20:52] <chrisccoulson> that doesn't surprise me at all
[20:53] <chrisccoulson> in fact, the majority of it is google sites ;)
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> So?
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> Google sites don't eat as much ram in chrome
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> ├────443.46 MB (19.04%) ── heap-unclassified
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> what's that?
[20:54] <MartijnVdS>   625.98 MB ── heap-unallocated
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> it could easily let go of that
[20:54] <popey> the thing i like about chrome is i can close it, reopen it and it re-loads all the tabs I had open
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> popey: it does?
[20:54] <popey> firefox only remembers pinned tabs
[20:54] <popey> it can
[20:55] <popey> optionally
[20:55] <ali1234> not here it doesn't
[20:55] <dogmatic69> popey: any browser does that
[20:55] <gord> firefox remembers all my tabs here
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> gord: only if you kill -9 it
[20:55] <ali1234> firefox remembers all my tabs here, even though i have disabled that option
[20:55] <dogmatic69> google chrome, chromium, ff all do it
[20:55] <popey> nope
[20:55] <popey> not true
[20:55] <gord> nope it does it constantly MartijnVdS
[20:55] <popey> i have that pastebin open
[20:55]  * popey closes firefox
[20:55] <dogmatic69> popey: I use all three every day ;)
[20:55] <ali1234> firefox *always* exits in a crash even if i do file->quit, which is why. every second time i start it, i get the "oops" display
[20:55] <popey> dogmatic69: that doesnt make it work
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I get that with spotify
[20:56] <chrisccoulson> MartijnVdS, heap-unclassified is memory used by objects that don't have a dedicated reporter
[20:56] <popey> joy, can't open firefox because it's still running, yet closed
[20:56] <popey> right, finally reopened
[20:56] <chrisccoulson> and no, it can't get rid of heap-unallocated, else it would have done already
[20:56] <popey> and the pastebin is _not_ opened
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: so, bug in firefox?
[20:56] <chrisccoulson> no
[20:56] <gord> could it not just be a setting somewhere popey?
[20:56] <popey> could be, which one? ☺
[20:57] <gord> no idea, i haven't touched my settings in a long time and use the sync thing to keep all my machines the same
[20:57] <popey> aha!
[20:57] <chrisccoulson> MartijnVdS,  heap-unallocated is a result of heap fragmentation, which is quite normal
[20:57] <popey> "What firefox starts: " was set to "show home page"
[20:57] <popey> changed it to "show my windows and tabs from last time"
[20:57] <popey> ta
[20:57] <popey> thats why i never used to close it
[20:58] <gord> firefox finally got the same new tab page thingy that chrome has recently. not sure i need to see 9 different reddit pages on my new tab thing
[20:58] <popey> now lets see what flash video is like
[20:58] <MartijnVdS> Chrome has a "Goats teleported" metric in its process manager
[20:58] <MartijnVdS> Wut.
[20:58] <popey> 12299 alan      20   0 1908m 832m  45m S   19 10.6   0:50.69 firefox
[20:58] <popey> no stuttering \o/
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> http://www.goat-trauma.org/
[21:01] <dogmatic69> popey: http://i.imgur.com/MHIMk.png
[21:01] <chrisccoulson> popey, i avoid memory issues by not keeping any google sites open btw ;)
[21:02] <chrisccoulson> although that probably doesn't work for everyone
[21:02] <popey> ☺
[21:03] <dogmatic69> the options are not default iirc
[21:03] <chrisccoulson> popey, i sat down with slangasek at the last platform sprint because he was having a problem with frequent disk wakeups with firefox
[21:03] <chrisccoulson> and it turned out to be google plus frequently using a specific web API which causes a disk write
[21:04] <chrisccoulson> but running it in chrome didn't use the same API
[21:04] <chrisccoulson> go figure ;)
[21:04] <livingdaylite> Hi, does anyone know the name, I forget, of a little server machine that goes fits on back of monitor?
[21:04] <popey> revo?
[21:04] <livingdaylite> maybe, let me check
[21:05] <livingdaylite> they had a couple versions of it.
[21:05] <livingdaylite> hrmm, don't think so
[21:05] <popey> what colour was it?
[21:06] <popey> or any other factors that give it away ☺
[21:06] <diddledan> there was the zotac machine
[21:06] <popey> the Acer Aspire Revo 3600 / 3660 / 3700 has a screen mount
[21:06] <livingdaylite> it was a small box , black, or silver? fit on back of monitor, if memory serves. Ran ubuntu or linux
[21:06] <popey> Viglen MPC-L?
[21:06] <livingdaylite> YES!
[21:06] <livingdaylite> thx!
[21:07] <ali1234> yeah you're better of getting a raspberry i
[21:07] <ali1234> unless you really need VGA that is
[21:07] <dogmatic69> ali1234: rasberry i? is that the new version :P
[21:08] <popey> yeah, i wouldn't get a viglen mpc-l
[21:08] <popey> well, i have two of them in a drawer, unused for about a yeare
[21:08] <livingdaylite> no? no good?
[21:08] <popey> slow
[21:08] <popey> whats the use case?
[21:08] <livingdaylite> I'm looking for a desktop again :(
[21:08] <dogmatic69> o.o
[21:09] <dogmatic69> livingdaylite: that is not a desktop replacement
[21:09] <livingdaylite> I got a new hd , third in a row, but I see that it is not the hd but the machine somehow breaking them... Installed ubuntu yesterday and quickly experiencing the same issues of freeze
[21:09] <ali1234> i don't think it cen even run ubuntu any more
[21:09] <popey> correct
[21:09] <ali1234> you have to use lucid on it
[21:09] <livingdaylite> dogmatic69: fair enough... I was hoping
[21:10] <popey> revo is fine
[21:10] <ali1234> also they are quite flaky due to overheating
[21:10] <dogmatic69> livingdaylite: you could get a full pc (all be it crappy) for like 100 bucks
[21:10] <dogmatic69> with GB's of ram, not MB's
[21:11] <ali1234> hmm software centre disappeared again
[21:11] <livingdaylite> I don't enjoy shopping for pc's especially when having been out of it for so long. Things change and move along
[21:11] <livingdaylite> I did find this which looked promising. They come without os, so that's good. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Altera-Computers-Ltd/_i.html?_fsub=3898032018
[21:12] <popey> livingdaylite: my desktop pc is a zoostorm cheapy thing from ebuyer
[21:14] <ali1234> http://ubuntuone.com/0sUDG3xdEMsmbTjFK4Mazq
[21:14] <livingdaylite> does amd still make processors?
[21:14] <ali1234> what do?
[21:15] <ali1234> livingdaylite: seriously?
[21:15] <ali1234> yes, they still make processors
[21:16] <livingdaylite> ali1234: seriously, haven't heard much about amd's anymore.... I'm sort of up to speed with the new intel i3, i5, i7 processors (barely)
[21:16] <livingdaylite> does this look good? http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Altera-Computers-Ltd/_i.html?_fsub=3898032018
[21:16] <ali1234> which one?
[21:17] <ali1234> none of them have enough RAM for the price
[21:17] <ali1234> you want at least 8GB
[21:17] <mrgt> join #codeigniter
[21:17] <livingdaylite> that one comes with 4gb
[21:17] <livingdaylite> ali1234: can you show me something better for the same money? [£200 - £300]
[21:19] <ali1234> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006ZINQE8/ref=asc_df_B006ZINQE88302616?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22206&creativeASIN=B006ZINQE8
[21:19] <ali1234> also includes a hard drive, the other one doesn't
[21:22] <livingdaylite> Ithe other did have a 250gb hd
[21:23] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/362648-zoostorm-desktop-pc-7873-1058
[21:23] <popey> 228 quid, 8gb ram, 750gb hdd, looks good
[21:24] <livingdaylite> wow, that does...
[21:24] <livingdaylite> looks like zoostorms are popular here
[21:24] <popey> they're cheap
[21:24] <livingdaylite> good value
[21:24] <livingdaylite> yes
[21:24] <popey> i am resting my feet on one now ☺
[21:24] <livingdaylite> hehe
[21:24] <livingdaylite> loud?
[21:24] <popey> nope
[21:24] <livingdaylite> really!?
[21:25] <popey> the one i have isnt
[21:25] <popey> mine is an i7
[21:25] <popey> has no case fan, just one on the cpu
[21:25] <popey> other models may vary
[21:25] <ali1234> if you want it to be not loud and also good you will have to spend lots of money
[21:25] <livingdaylite> case same on yours? difference is only processor?
[21:25] <ali1234> but it depends how you define "loud"
[21:25] <popey> the cases all look similar
[21:26] <popey> yeah, i have a server 6 inches from my ear
[21:26] <popey> so i dont hear the desktop under my feet really
[21:26] <popey> maybe 18 inches from my ear
[21:26] <livingdaylite> ali1234: sure. beggers can't be choosers. I dream of getting a water cooling system one day... almost completely quiet
[21:27] <ali1234> random windows question: is it possible to get rid of windows ribbon and get the old menus back, in arbitrary applications?
[21:27] <livingdaylite> popey: got link to your machine?
[21:27] <livingdaylite> just curious
[21:29] <popey> Zoostorm Advanced Media PC, Core i7-2600 3.4GHz, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, DVDRW, Windows 7 Professional
[21:29] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/271629
[21:29] <ali1234>  8156 root      25   5  101m 7472 3788 R   99  0.0   7:19.56 https
[21:29] <livingdaylite> thx
[21:29] <popey> they dont do that specific model anymore
[21:29] <ali1234> whaaaaat? ^
[21:29] <popey> £491.40
[21:30] <popey> ali1234: apt
[21:30] <popey> ?
[21:30] <ali1234> why is my computer running https using 100% cpu?
[21:30] <popey> connecting to private ppa
[21:30] <livingdaylite> what is intel equivalent of amd A6 processor? is it like the i3/i5/i7 series?
[21:30] <popey> no idea, i have no knowledge of AMD models
[21:30] <ali1234> there are no equivalents
[21:31] <ali1234> in a sense, all AMD processors are equivalent to i7, because i3/i5 is just i7 with features disabled
[21:31] <ali1234> however, all AMD processors are slower than i7s
[21:31] <ali1234> and also about 4x cheaper
[21:32] <ali1234> oh, and no hyperthreading either
[21:32] <ali1234> though bulldozer sort of has it... basically you can't compare them at all
[21:32] <livingdaylite> you like AMD's?
[21:32] <ali1234> yes
[21:33] <ali1234> pound for pound they have about the same performance as intel, but the motherboards are about half the price
[21:33] <diddledan> hyperthreading can be a problem though if the scheduler doesn't account for the difference in speed of a real core and a hyperthreaded core
[21:33] <livingdaylite> by equivalent I mean. Well, i thought they used to compete and run paralel ''equivalent'' processors...
[21:33] <ali1234> yeah not any more
[21:33] <ali1234> these days they use incompatible extensions
[21:33] <ali1234> remember mmx?
[21:33] <livingdaylite> i see
[21:33] <livingdaylite> mmx, no
[21:34] <diddledan> mmx circa 1995 :-o
[21:35] <directhex> ali1234, there's no way to arbitrarily unribbon. there may be third party paid apps to mangle it, but YMMV
[21:35] <livingdaylite>  AMD A6 3500 Triple Core 2.1GHz vs Intel Core i3-2120
[21:36] <ali1234> directhex: i see. thanks
[21:36] <livingdaylite> £228 vs  £309
[21:36] <diddledan> the A6 is their so-called APU range, right? in which case pound-for-pound the graphics will be better in the APU than the intel
[21:36] <ali1234> maybe, but who uses integrated graphics seriously?
[21:37] <diddledan> true
[21:38] <directhex> you can crossfire an APU with a real GPU
[21:38] <ali1234> that's pretty cool
[21:38] <diddledan> I like my bulldozer 8-way unit even though it's an odd design
[21:39] <mgdm> what's an 'APU' (aside from the aeronautical sense)
[21:39] <directhex> http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/dual-graphics/pages/dual-graphics.aspx#3
[21:39] <directhex> mgdm, amd's current name for on-cpu gpu
[21:39] <ali1234> in this context, a CPU+GPU on one die
[21:39] <mgdm> aaaah
[21:39] <diddledan> accelerated processing unit - effectively it's a cpu+gpu
[21:40] <ali1234> in smartphone context it means application processor - kind of a locked down co-processor where the user OS runs, and isn't allowed to touch any radio hardware without going through the real CPU
[21:40] <ali1234> (this is also how raspberry pi works)
[21:44] <livingdaylite> popey: this was a review on the AMD zoostorm you linked me: http://pastebin.com/PtM0kLa2
[21:46] <ali1234> psychonauts finally installed. no icon for it in the menus though.
[21:48] <ali1234> why apport why? http://ubuntuone.com/3mpP4Cpld1AA6f9aDv9mnZ
[22:12] <livingdaylite> ali1234: http://bit.ly/Nh24A3 bulldozer processor
[22:12] <ali1234> it only has 4GB
[22:14] <livingdaylite> only? but price is pretty good... overall
[22:14] <livingdaylite> I have a few gb on my current pc I can carry over
[22:14] <ali1234> you are better off getting 8GB and dual core
[22:15] <livingdaylite> ram more important than processor?
[22:15] <ali1234> yes
[22:15] <diddledan> I want more "gigs"
[22:15] <livingdaylite> oh?!
[22:15] <directhex> gigglebytes!
[22:15] <diddledan> \o/
[22:15]  * diddledan giggles like a girly
[22:15] <livingdaylite> I thought 4gb more than enough
[22:15] <ali1234> i can set my computer to powersave mode (800mhz) and it barely make any difference
[22:15] <ali1234> 4GB however was unusably slow
[22:16] <ali1234> so i upgraded to 16
[22:16] <livingdaylite> but, like I say I have ram to carry over and make up the difference
[22:16] <diddledan> yeah, I want 16.. I'm on 8 atm in here and 6 in my old black macbook
[22:17] <livingdaylite> but, amd fx processors good
[22:17] <livingdaylite> *quad core
[22:17] <diddledan> I like mine, but I don't really know enough to dislike it - it works, that's about as advanced as I get
[22:18] <ali1234> phenom 2 is supposed to be almost as good
[22:18] <ali1234> unless you need integrated graphics
[22:18] <diddledan> mine's an octo-core :-D
[22:18] <ali1234> yeah you won't get a 8 core cpu for under £200
[22:19] <diddledan> although each pair is crippled into only having one FPU to share
[22:19] <ali1234> just for the cpu, not including everything else
[22:19] <diddledan> indeed
[22:20] <ali1234> i might get e X6
[22:23] <ali1234> AlanBell: when openmary says "thank you" it sounds a lot like something else
[22:24] <AlanBell> I could add a button for that
[22:27] <ali1234> needs a js speech synth really
[22:28] <mgdm> run festival through emscripten? :P
[22:28] <ali1234> http://www.p01.org/releases/JS1K_Speech_Synthesizer/JS1K_Speech_Synthesizer.htm
[22:29] <ali1234> makes a better drum machine than speech synthesizer
[22:34] <webpigeon> Drum mashine might me optimistic...
[22:34] <webpigeon> s/me/be/
[22:40] <AlanBell> decent speech synth is quite heavy
[22:40] <AlanBell> as this is a small vocabulary you could sample the lot
[22:40] <AlanBell> but then you don't get to parameterise it and change the pitch etc
[23:10] <diddledan> they say there's gonna be a "Linux" version of this game if they get enough funding
[23:10] <diddledan> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/935411564/hexit-point-and-click-sci-fi-adventure-game
[23:57] <gebbione> hi i m trying to set a path to an alias with a space in it
[23:58] <gebbione> and using something like alias zf='/path/here web/ZendFramework-1.11.11/bin/zf.sh'
[23:58] <gebbione> but if i run zf it says
[23:59] <gebbione>    /path/here   No such file or directory