[00:09] ::workspace-bugs:: [975056] KWin shortcuts don't work on second monitor @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/975056 (by Zoffix Znet) [00:09] Launchpad bug 975056 in kde-workspace (Ubuntu) "KWin shortcuts don't work on second monitor" [Undecided,New] === skreech__ is now known as skreech_ === jalcine is now known as Jacky [07:57] hola [08:47] * Riddell uploads 4.8.90 to quantal [10:05] * Riddell starts on 4.8.90 backports to precise [10:16] cool! [10:53] ScottK: shiny new packages for your review https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+queue [11:20] hiyas all [11:24] Riddell: so much mail in my inbox :o [11:25] debfx: love letters no doubt [11:26] not sure if ubuntu installer is capable of loving [11:55] Riddell: Why is the -dev audiocd-kio-dev instead of libaudiocdplugins-dev in audiocd-kio? [12:24] ScottK: hmm dunno, reject and I'll fix it [13:26] ::qt-bugs:: [1012550] qtsql: no drivers loaded (incomplete library paths?) @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1012550 (by Jonas T.) [13:26] Launchpad bug 1012550 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu) "qtsql: no drivers loaded (incomplete library paths?)" [Undecided,Invalid] [13:53] Riddell: rejected. [14:25] Riddell: Have a look at the license statement in cmake/FindFFmpeg.cmake in ffmpegthumbs. I'm afraid that one gets rejected too. [14:26] debfx: ^^^ [14:29] Same problem in juk as well. [14:30] also the binary name should be kde-thumbnailer-ffmpeg [14:30] Can you fix both those things and re-upload? [14:30] Rejecting juk now too. [14:32] kmix actually has cmake/modules/COPYING-CMAKE-SCRIPTS so if you need an example to steal from, that's a good place. [14:35] Sigh. [14:35] kmix misses a copy of the GPL. [14:35] It has LGPL and GFDL, but not GPL. [14:38] debfx: kmix needs a copy of the GPL added and mention of the licensing of cmake/modules/FindCanberra.cmake in debian/copyright. [14:39] yofel_: ^^^ [14:40] I'm fixing ffmpegthumbs now [14:42] hmm etherpad broken :( [14:42] debfx, ffmpeg install on 12.10 has a lot of broken depoendencies , like so , http://paste.ubuntu.com/1040765/ [14:42] * Riddell kdesdk WIP [14:49] Sigh. kscd too. Needs cmake/modules/COPYING-CMAKE-SCRIPTS for cmake/FindMusicBrainz3.cmake and debian/copyright fixed. [14:49] Riddell and debfx ^^^ [14:51] ack [14:52] That's everything in queue. [14:52] thanks [14:52] meaning you rejected everything? :( [14:53] definitely no love letters in my inbox now [14:54] oh [14:54] ScottK: please reject ffmpegthumbs again [14:55] It's not there yet, but I will. [14:56] debfx: Rejected. [15:02] working on kmix next [15:03] kubuntu meeting in an hour? [15:06] in here presumably since #u-m will be bust [15:06] busy [15:06] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings [15:18] heyo Riddell [15:18] one of the biggest questions @ the southeast linuxfest was "where's ubuntu" [15:18] outside of the KDE booth that is [15:19] ybit2: mm? I've no idea I'm afraid [15:19] presumably the loco for the area didn't organise anything [15:21] what's the meeting about? [15:21] in 40 minutes [15:22] kubuntu bits [15:22] see agenda [15:22] and anything else anyone wants to bring up [15:25] hi [15:26] hi ScottK [15:26] hi soee [15:26] Hello. [15:26] guys anyone using the new Dolphin ? [15:26] from 4.9.80 [15:26] *4.8.80 [15:27] yes [15:28] Riddell, is it possible to change icons and text size in left section (Places) [15:28] before it was automaticly done when resizing [15:28] I've no idea [15:28] ah ok [15:29] kmix accepted. [15:31] debfx: I thought you were changing the binary name in ffmpegthumbs? [15:32] ScottK: turns out the package already existed before 4.9 [15:32] OK. [15:33] Looks good then. [15:34] Accepted. [15:35] juk accepted as well. [15:37] Riddell: If Kubuntu is moving to Universe soon, we should hold off on the l10n upload so they don't get stripped. [15:37] ScottK: I'm not touching l10n until universe is done [15:38] Excellent. [15:38] We should probably discuss not using LP translations anymore at the meeting. [15:38] I don't expect it'll be controversial. [15:38] there's a spec that covers that (at least in part) so it comes under the work item review [15:40] Great. [15:41] soee: please file a bug on http://bugs.kde.org [15:41] kscd uploaded again. is there anything else missing (except audiocd-kio)? [15:42] From the ones I rejected today, no. [15:43] audiocd-kio is in ninjas [15:44] Can you upload it to the archive? [15:44] debfx: kscd accepted. Thanks. [15:44] ScottK: yep [15:44] I'll review it then. [15:45] uhm i like the new plasmoids scroller ;) [15:54] ScottK: bug #1013242 if you have some more time to exercise your archive admin powers [15:54] Launchpad bug 1013242 in kdemultimedia (Ubuntu) "Remove kdemultimedia source package from quantal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013242 [15:54] Need to do some actual work for a bit ... [16:00] apachelogger, Riddell, JontheEchidna, ScottK: council ping [16:00] Kubuntu meeting! who's all here? [16:00] ahoy ahoy [16:01] pong. [16:01] SteveRiley is alive. [16:02] sabdfl no online, tsk [16:02] let's start with membership [16:02] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/SteveRiley [16:02] o/ [16:03] SteveRiley: tell us a bit about yourself and why you want to be part of kubuntu? [16:03] more than what's on the wiki page i suppose :) [16:04] two things that i think i could bring, based on what clay has mentioned [16:04] * Mamarok is here [16:04] at kfn, we'd like to see more cross-polination between irc, the list, and the forum [16:04] a summary would be a start, see, Riddell is lazy and only reads every other sentence missing half the stuff ^^ [16:04] so i could see myself encouraging more of that [16:05] the other would be as an evangelist of sorts [16:05] SteveRiley: what attracts you to kubuntu as a distro and community compared to any of the dozens of other options out there? [16:05] kubuntu is marvelous work. but it has a somewhat low profile [16:05] i've spent a fair amount of my career doing technical communications, and i could bring some of that experience to kubuntu [16:06] Riddell: when i started learning linux, ubuntu was my choice... i distro-hopped, but kept coming back mostly out of familiarity [16:06] but i never really liked the direction canonical was going with unity [16:07] when i saw kde on another distro, i was drawn to everything about it -- flexibility, appearance, de integration [16:07] so in early 2011 i finally decided it was time to settle on one distro and make it my primary work environment, thus kubuntu was the natural choice [16:08] my background: [16:08] SteveRiley: how functional is the kubuntu forums community? are they friendly, do they solve people's problems, do they keep to date with changes in kubuntu? [16:09] oh, ok... i'll answer that first [16:09] kfn is unlike any other linux-related forum i've seen. [16:09] the core group of active members have exhibit a high degree of mutual respect [16:09] people go out of their way to research and solve problems [16:10] i know i've spent hours sometimes doing that [16:10] so your testimonial says, very impressive :) [16:10] if you look at the number of posts in each release's section, you'll see that a lot of people do migrate, and keep up with the latest [16:10] flame wars are very rare, we admins simply won't allow it. personal attacks are forbidden [16:11] otherwise, we are very open and don't as a rule practice censorship [16:11] SteveRiley: this might be controvertial but why use kubuntu forums rather than ubuntu forums? [16:11] even our social/casual talk forum, where religion and politics frequently come up, people exchange ideas in a civil manner [16:12] i don't have an answer to that question, as zach and the others created the forum long before i came along [16:12] but i'll hazard a guess: [16:12] ubuntu forum is BIIIIIIIIIIG. [16:12] a number of our members have mentioned they find ubuntu forum intimidating [16:12] we get quite a lot of windows exiles on kfn [16:13] lovely, any other questions for SteveRiley? [16:13] since we're smaller, and exhibit much more of a community feeling, they like what they see and they choose to stay [16:13] Since you're a cloud person, what's your opinion on owncloud? [16:13] riddell: re testimonies -- thanks. [16:14] ah, owncloud [16:14] I warned you. [16:14] i looked at v3 briefly and foumd that it appeared to be a promising platform, but it had a number of basic bugs: [16:14] php ui behaved unpredictably [16:15] the sync clients mostly didn't work [16:15] permissions issues abounded [16:15] so when v4 came out, my observation was that's the version that will start taking off [16:15] still a few glitches [16:15] It would very nice if would could offer a complete FOSS solution for people who didn't want to use Google/Amazon/whatever. [16:15] but now at 4.0.2, it's lookig very nice [16:16] Riddell has packaged it, but I dare say we could use some help from a cloud oriented person making it tip top. [16:16] being a pile of php and sql that sits on apache, you can install it anywhere [16:16] Would you be able to help out with that? [16:16] i run one on aws and one at home [16:16] the current owncloud package is from debian, testing needed [16:16] scottk: absolutely. [16:16] i run both my ownclouds on a ubuntu server install [16:16] SteveRiley: OK. Then you are now KFN person and aspiring developer. [16:17] the biggest problem is that owncloud's documented installation procedure is wrong [16:17] scottk: wow, thanks! [16:17] well that's +1 from me for top contributions and community linking [16:17] Do you use the packages or install the upstream tarball? [16:17] i use the .deb [16:17] +1 from me too. [16:17] Excellent. [16:17] thanks much, guys. [16:18] apachelogger: vote? [16:18] * apachelogger fires up his coin flip app [16:18] lol [16:18] the mighty app says yay +1 [16:18] JontheEchidna: ? [16:18] SteveRiley: welcome into membership, please e-mail me your launchpad user so I remember to add you [16:18] (it litterally says that ... I think I might have written bogus code, it always comes up with +1) [16:19] you'll get a shiny @kubuntu e-mail and can put your blog on planet [16:19] very nice. been looking forward to opportunities to join. [16:19] -Emerge support partner update [16:20] thank you, all. [16:20] SteveRiley: Hang around here and let's make the owncloud packages better. [16:20] Also #ubuntu-server. [16:20] as many of you know a nice non-profit company called Emerge want to be a support partner for kubuntu [16:20] indeed. that sounds like a good first bit to tackle. [16:20] with any profits going back to kubuntu [16:20] \o/ [16:20] (not to be published widely, they don't want it announced until it's sorted) [16:21] this is currently blocked on canonical writing "yes you can use the trademark" [16:21] shame sabdfl isn't here, but if anyone is in contact with canonical management do politely nudge them [16:22] and if there's no comments on that it brings us onto the next topic [16:22] Kubuntu Council constitution https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Council [16:22] we need a constitution so we can open a bank account and so canonical can make an agreement which refers to the kubuntu council [16:23] typo "quotate" [16:23] well spotted [16:23] and "If a quorate is not at the meeting" isn't really English [16:23] apachelogger, ScottK: as existing council members have you had a chance to read through it? [16:24] Yes. [16:24] Not as well as cjwatson apparently. [16:24] it just defines in bank-friendly language what we already did (agreed in maverick times) [16:24] hey [16:25] is anyone working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/995815 ? I'd like to give it a try if not. [16:25] Launchpad bug 995815 in apport (Ubuntu) "Apport shows black, empty window" [Undecided,New] [16:25] Riddell: note that the entity KDE e.V. is not outlined in 1. [16:25] it means we'll need a chair, treasurer and secretary which are pretty ceremonial roles except for the treasurer [16:25] agateau: meeting [16:25] apachelogger: oh right [16:26] Riddell: is this a call for volunteers? [16:26] Riddell: Does it need something in there about how the constitution is revised? [16:27] Mamarok: nope, that's the council vote which apachelogger already started [16:27] Riddell: that said ... I believe it should be mentioned that one member can only hold one of those positions [16:27] OK [16:28] ScottK: yes I guess so [16:28] wiki being slow so can't edit [16:29] feel free to suggest something [16:29] apachelogger: likewise [16:30] How about "Revisions to the constitution must be pre-announced on the kubuntu-devel mailing list and approved by vote of the Kubuntu Council."? [16:31] * apachelogger would think that a revision ought to be carried by >3 members [16:32] ScottK: added a bit about informing stakeholders "1. Revisions to the constitution must be pre-announced on the kubuntu-devel mailing list and informed the Ubuntu Community Council and other stakeholders and approved by vote of the Kubuntu Council." [16:32] Sounds good. [16:32] apachelogger: it's difficult to put a larger number, that leads to problems if people disappear [16:32] which happens a lot in societies like this [16:32] * ScottK thought about a super-majority requirement and decided not. [16:33] I think getting information out is the key. [16:33] well, a quorum is currently defined as 3/6, IMHO that ought to be 4/6 [16:33] maybe we should have a process to replace inactive council members? [16:33] Then we'd have to define inactive? [16:34] I don't think it needs to be in the constitution. [16:34] + [16:34] if >2 go MIA something ought to be terribly wrong anyway [16:35] I think quorum of 3 is good. [16:35] "if any council members do not make contact with the other council members project for over three months they shall be considered inactive and a vote may be organise to replace them" ? [16:37] It ought to be something like do not respond to contact attempts. [16:38] "if any council members do not respond to contact attempts for over three months they shall be considered inactive and a vote may be organise to replace them" ? [16:38] "if any council members do respond to contact attempts by other council members project for over three months they shall be considered inactive and a vote may be organized to replace them" [16:38] Mine is spelled better, but either one. [16:38] do NOT respond you mean :) [16:38] Yes. I dod. [16:39] ScottK: if a revisoinal quorum is 4 members it would enforce that at least one of the businessy members have to attend [16:39] do even. [16:39] I hope you don't mind, but I fixed the "quorate" grammatical errors on the https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Council page. [16:39] which would then save us having to outline the process to hold a meeting [16:39] apachelogger: Getting three at a time is hard enough. [16:39] ScottK: how often do you plan on changing the constitution? [16:40] apachelogger: Approximately never, but it'll be some dire circumstance and I don't want to make it overly hard. [16:40] I am fine with 3 attendees for regular votes, not for revisions of the constituation [16:40] I guess. Not my preference, but I can live with it. [16:40] thanks littlegirl [16:40] Any time. (: [16:41] apachelogger: 4 or all active members? [16:41] Riddell: 4 [16:41] apachelogger: "4 or all active members"? [16:41] a simple number is liable to problems when nobody is active (been there, done that) [16:42] Yep. [16:42] The lesser of 4 or all active members [16:42] Riddell: yah [16:42] well we can replace inactive members now so adding "all active members" is imho not needed [16:43] if you need a somewhat immediate change .... [16:43] Yes. Elections take time. [16:43] "The vote must include the lesser of 4 or all active members." [16:44] voting only takes 2 weeks [16:44] +3 months until someone can be considered inactive [16:45] apachelogger: that's in the previous point (12) [16:45] yes, that was regarding the 2 weeks election time not being long [16:45] you have to take into acccount that before those 2 weeks could be 3 months of not being able to carry a revision [16:46] so being able to carry it after 3 months (at the worst) seems way more reasonable than 3.5 months [16:47] any more comments? [16:48] KDEev defintion [16:49] apachelogger: added [16:50] looks good to me [16:50] shall we vote? [16:51] +1 [16:51] it gets a +1 from me for nicely defining what we do anyway [16:51] +1 [16:51] Passed. [16:51] lovely, thanks all [16:51] any other business? [16:51] I hope everyone voted on new council members already :) [16:51] I think we should wait until the current election concludes to select the various roles. [16:52] apachelogger: closes on sunday? [16:52] apachelogger: for that I should actually get a mail to vote, still haven't got it [16:52] yes, sometime sunday when I get to close the vote (that is: when I get up :)) [16:53] Mamarok: hmm related to the e-mail problems you reported? [16:53] currently we have 29 of 49 votes casted, which has been like this for a day or two, so I suppose everyone who is interested already voted anyway :) [16:53] I guess so [16:53] Mamarok: oho [16:53] apachelogger: are you able to add Mamarok manually? [16:53] aye [16:53] thanks :) [16:53] Mamarok: myriam@kde.org? [16:54] yes [16:54] added [16:54] normally Launchpad should be fixed now, I hope it will not forward mails from @kubuntu.org to @ubuntu.com and vice-versa again [16:54] oh [16:55] spec review [16:55] duh [16:55] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-q?searchtext=kubuntu [16:55] shall I go through them quickly? [16:55] yes, please [16:56] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-images 1GB images, no separate dvd [16:56] Alternates? [16:56] ScottK: still undecided [16:57] it'll need some additions to ubiquity I think to replace all the features, which is happening on the gtk side [16:57] Not sure about dropping powerpc. We had testers for precise. [16:57] isn't ppc a ports release anyway? [16:58] Yes. [16:58] I'd be all for dropping alternates but I guess people will complain if ubiquity doesn't replace all the features [16:58] Spec says about dropping the images. [16:58] hm [16:58] Riddell: Agreed. [16:58] sounds good, but I think we should still aim to keep the size small. [16:58] what would we get from dropping it? [16:58] so we don't fill up the 1GB just because we can [16:58] apachelogger: one less hassle [16:58] Riddell: well, if we have testers... [16:58] We tried to drop the alternate the cycle you were gone and got all kinds of hate due to lack of Ubiquity features. [16:58] which is lots of little hassle when compiling packages [16:59] never noticed? [16:59] what's different for ppc? [16:59] I mean, other than the odd FTBFS [16:59] it's slow mostly [16:59] That's true if we make images or not. [16:59] uh, well, i like the alternate installer because i prefer advanced-mode cli, but i'll admit i'm in a small minority there [16:59] I tend to only use that one [17:00] SteveRiley: one pretty much gets the same result with netinstall [17:00] feel free to add back powerpc but I won't care about it :) [17:00] apachelogger: true. [17:00] about ppc ... I don't see the harm in having it around as long as someone but us ensures it works :P [17:00] when/if that is not the case I am all for dropping it [17:01] apachelogger: it involves more waiting for downloads, but i tend to forget that, what with my 60 mbps comcast connection :) [17:01] SteveRiley: actually for advanced install it will mostly be faster as one can install only the stuff one really wants ^^ [17:02] ok I removed the drop powerpc item, and add in "powerpc is very low priority" [17:02] Riddell: + [17:02] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-active plasma active 3 [17:02] apachelogger: hmm... then the one time i compared them i must have done something weird... can't remember what, now. [17:02] apachelogger: what with people not having the bandwidth? [17:02] assigned to rbelem [17:03] Riddell: I think (re powerpc) that's good. [17:04] "script test sessions of Active with Xephyr and separate user" that's fiddly but rbelem seems to think he can do it [17:04] for plasma active - this is another interest of mine, and i can offer up testing services using my samsung 700t [17:04] "buy/obtain tablets and get to useful people to ensure testing" Darkwing got a couple of those already [17:04] Mamarok: downloading alternate or downloading netinstall+download on-the-fly requires the same bandwith [17:04] Riddell: I think the Active spec needs to work item to look at the missing kde4libs patches to see if there's anything in there too insane for us. [17:04] SteveRiley: excellent [17:05] to work item/a work item [17:05] looks like i'm going to have to learn this packaging stuff reall quick-like [17:05] ScottK: "[kubuntu-dev] review kdelibs/base patches for potential technical issues: TODO" ? [17:05] Riddell: Good. [17:06] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-development all in some sort of progress [17:06] except for "add hooks to language kcm to list all language then install them when selected by user" [17:06] which is to replace language selector which is going away (so are our language packs anyway) [17:07] Riddell, related to arm images [17:07] I think PyQt/PyKDE4 works with Ptyhon3 is done. [17:07] Riddell, we still need omap3 [17:07] rbelem: why? [17:08] Riddell, some tablets runs that [17:08] rbelem: ones powerful enough to run plasma active? [17:08] Riddell, i dont have the list on top of my head [17:08] last cycle we didn't have anything to test them [17:08] Riddell, yup [17:08] except beagle boards which aren't powerful enough [17:08] Riddell: some packages (at least kde4libs) will stay in main. so I think we still need the language packs. [17:09] Riddell, i will list them then i will ping you [17:09] rbelem: the item is "drop omap(3) image unless someone finds a use" so if you find a use that covers the item [17:09] ScottK: works for me certainly [17:09] Riddell, yup [17:09] ubiquity and update-manager are using it so it had better [17:09] debfx: hmm, probably needs some thinking about [17:10] debfx: or maybe we should blacklist those from language pack stripping [17:10] that sounds kind of easier [17:10] kde4libs won't have translations in it anyway. [17:10] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-docs has some items for Darkwing [17:10] ScottK: there'll be a few others [17:11] littlegirl: but feel free to take over, don't let others prevent you from doing useful things in docs or elsewhere [17:11] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-future has items already under way [17:12] new council elections, constitution, move to universe [17:13] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-packaging has lots of things needing packaged [17:13] with debfx script for package reviewing the SC packaging is much nicer [17:13] Oh, sorry, I was still playing around with https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Council which looks much better now. (: [17:13] q-future work items need a bit of updating on assignees, but look good otherwise. [17:14] I noticed plasma media centre is getting into a useable state so that should be looked at too [17:14] Riddell: Thanks - I appreciate the vote of confidence. I've been learning DocBook inside and out so that I'm prepared to make changes to the documentation instead of floundering around in it. (: [17:15] * Mamarok goes to feed the cats before they eat the cables here [17:15] Riddell, Qt 5 (with wayland backend) , now that looks real interesting ! :) [17:15] Riddell: Constitution needs to move off the wiki to kubuntu.org. [17:15] ScottK: will do [17:16] Riddell: We don't need Qt5 for anything for Kubuntu. Is that really our team's work item? [17:16] ScottK: it's needed to support upstream kde (in my opinion) [17:16] but much can be palmed off onto canonical and linaro [17:16] OK. Fair enough. [17:16] Please do. [17:17] antway , back to work [17:17] if we just leave it up to canonical that means they might get into habits of adding random patches [17:17] True. [17:17] For a large value of might. [17:18] any other comments or can we vote on them? [17:18] I just hope Qt 5 will be coordinated with Debian. [17:19] debfx: by linaro I mean fabo who is debian [17:19] but yes [17:19] these work items are +1 from me (cos I wrote them mostly) [17:20] +1 [17:20] I notice that the Precise documentation was located in the Kubuntu section here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kubuntu-docs while the Quantal documentation seems to be located in the Ubuntu section here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu - is that an oversight or intentional? [17:21] littlegirl: the spec is at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-docs [17:21] oh I see, it's under a different project [17:21] that's not important [17:22] It would be nice to have it in the https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kubuntu-docs section for semantics' sake. (: [17:22] ok I can look at that [17:22] but not just now I need to go out [17:22] ScottK: what say you? [17:22] +1 on the specs as modified. [17:22]