[13:50]  * xnox 0/
[13:50] <stgraber> xnox: you're a bit early ;)
[13:51]  * xnox got a google calendar pop-up ;-)
[13:55] <vibhav> Did I miss the MOTU meeting?
[13:56] <vibhav> The MOTU meeting is today, right?
[13:57] <vibhav> Oh wait, I didnt miss it ^_^
[13:59]  * skaet  waves
[13:59] <stokachu> o/
[13:59] <xnox> vibhav: http://www.threadless.com/product/1466/Now_Panic_and_Freak_Out
[13:59] <seb128> skaet, hey
[14:00] <stgraber> #startmeeting Ubuntu 12.04.1 team meeting
[14:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 14 14:00:13 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[14:00]  * jibel waves
[14:00] <stgraber> #topic Action items review
[14:01] <stgraber> "stgraber to setup wiki page for the team, send initial meeting notes, update calendar entry"
[14:01] <stgraber> DONE and spammed everyone about it :)
[14:01] <stgraber> "xnox to prepare a target list for fs stack for 12.04.1"
[14:01] <stgraber> "xnox to liase with ballons, gema and jibel w.r.t. fs/storage testing"
[14:01] <stgraber> xnox: ^
[14:01] <xnox> I have a list of things for 12.04.1 to discuss (typing it up now)
[14:02] <xnox> liasing with QA people, postponed due to python sprint. Still a todo.
[14:02]  * xnox carry on, while I'm preparing a short paragraph about fs stuff
[14:02] <stokachu> stgraber: i dont see that email about wiki page
[14:02] <stgraber> stokachu: it was sent to ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-release
[14:03] <stgraber> The wiki page is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/12.04.1
[14:03] <stgraber> "skaet to get an update on the status of daily QA testing of whether these are all being run still in jenkins, and where to find the results."
[14:03] <stgraber> skaet: ^
[14:03] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001276.html
[14:03] <stokachu> thanks
[14:03] <skaet> yes they are being run in jenkin
[14:04] <skaet> talked to jibel about it after the meeting.
[14:04] <skaet> continue on and I'll paste the link
[14:04] <skaet> ..
[14:04] <stgraber> ok, thanks
[14:04] <stgraber> #topic Review of upcoming deadlines
[14:05] <stgraber> The first deadline listed for 12.04.1 is on the 2nd of August, so nothing to be extremely worried about just yet.
[14:05] <seb128> do we need to get the channel topic changed this way? it's taking 5 lines of backlog every time and making the meeting log hard to follow
[14:05] <arges> o/  what would be the timeframe to get things uploaded into -proposed for it to land in main by then
[14:06] <stgraber> seb128: I don't particularly like it, but I kind of like meetingology doing the meeting notes, so I have to live with it ;)
[14:07] <seb128> arges, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule has the schedule
[14:08] <seb128> arges, early august
[14:08] <arges> seb128, gotcha
[14:08] <stgraber> arges: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PointReleaseProcess gives some more details on that but assuming you can make sure the SRU gets verified as soon as it lands, anything that lands before August should be good, after that, it's going to get trickier
[14:08] <arges> ok thanks
[14:09] <stgraber> #topic Quick look through the current bug lists, checking for progress
[14:09] <stokachu> == Are definitely ready for 12.04.1 ==
[14:09] <stokachu> ----
[14:09] <stokachu> || '''bug''' || '''summary''' || '''notes''' ||
[14:09] <stokachu> || [[http://pad.lv/922514|922514]] || convert package to multiarch || Verify package is in 12.04 ||
[14:09] <stokachu> == Needs love ==
[14:09] <stokachu> ----
[14:09] <stokachu> || [[http://pad.lv/977952|977952]] || multiarch libonoboui  || Needs SRU ||
[14:10] <stokachu> || [[http://pad.lv/977959|977959]] || multiarch libgnome    || Upstream work started, needs more tlc ||
[14:10] <stokachu> || [[http://pad.lv/977940|977940]] || multiarch gnome-vfs   || Needs SRU, acceptance for Precise series ||
[14:10] <stokachu> || [[http://pad.lv/977964|977964]] || multiarch libart-lgpl || Upstream work complete, needs SRU ||
[14:10] <stokachu> || [[http://pad.lv/977966|977966]] || multiarch orbit2      || This is in -proposed, setting 12.04.1 milestone for tracking ||
[14:10] <stokachu> || [[http://pad.lv/890928|890828]] || multiarch libxkbfile  || Needs completed SRU (test case, regression potential) ||
[14:10] <stokachu> || [[http://pad.lv/859512|859512]] || multiarch libdbusmenu || This is released, however, bug indicates it is incomplete ||
[14:10] <stokachu> == Incomplete but needs consideration ==
[14:10] <stokachu> || [[http://pad.lv/977947|977947]] || multiarch libbonobo   || Needs update ||
[14:10] <stokachu> || [[http://pad.lv/932860|932860]] || multiarch appmenu-gtk || Still contains packaging issues, needs more time to investigate ||
[14:10] <stokachu> || [[http://pad.lv/919298|919298]] || unity-greeter crashes if no user account shown || Partial fix applied to quantal, needs precise nomination and a completed fix ||
[14:11] <stokachu> i've set some bugs to be nominated for precise, when that happens ill target 12.04.1 milestone
[14:11] <stgraber> ok, let me quickly accept the nomination then
[14:12] <stokachu> the last 3 need more work than the rest and could possibly be rejected for 12.04.1
[14:12] <skaet> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise/view/All%20Precise/  <-- link to precise daily run results.
[14:12]  * xnox 0/ ready with the fs plan for a discussion on how sensible it is, probably towards the end of the meeting, before AOB
[14:13] <stgraber> stokachu: nominations accepted
[14:13] <stokachu> stgraber: thanks, ill go through and target milestones after meeting
[14:13] <arges> stgraber, stokachu : i can help with the targeting too
[14:14] <seb128> stokachu, you probably want appmenu-gtk multiarched, that's an issue coming frequently in user comments and bugs
[14:14] <seb128> stokachu, i.e better to not reject it if possible
[14:14] <stokachu> seb128: ok, ill add that to my priority list to get fixed
[14:14] <stokachu> i think its *half* complete
[14:14] <stgraber> any other bugs that aren't on the current lists and should be worked on for 12.04.1?
[14:14] <seb128> stokachu, thanks
[14:15] <seb128> stgraber, stokachu: on multiarch issue I think somebody should check on bug #885492, gnome-keyring
[14:15] <stokachu> yes ive got three more
[14:15] <stokachu> just came in
[14:15] <seb128> that seems to come often as well
[14:15] <stokachu> seb128: ill get that added to list
[14:15] <seb128> thanks
[14:15] <stokachu> im supposed to be finishing up the multiarch stuff
[14:16] <stokachu> So i havent actually reviewed these ones yet, they just came in
[14:16] <stokachu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/972537
[14:16] <stokachu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/226780
[14:16] <stokachu> the second one i need to backport the timeout in apt-key
[14:17] <stgraber> stokachu: let me know if you need review and sponsoring to quantal and precise-proposed
[14:17] <stokachu> oh wait different bug
[14:17] <stokachu> stgraber: this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/226780 needs nomination approval
[14:17] <arges> stgraber, for these bugs, whats the best way to get your attention for review/sponsoring?
[14:17] <stgraber> stokachu: that lightdm seems pretty annoying for corporate deployments, sounds like a good candidate for the point release indeed
[14:18] <stgraber> arges: easiest way is to ping me on IRC, you can also go through the official sponsoring process but as I'm interested in these bugs anyway, I'm happy to do the review directly
[14:19] <stokachu> stgraber: could you approve the lightdm for precise as well?
[14:19] <arges> stgraber, ok thanks.
[14:19] <seb128> stokachu, I approved it
[14:20] <stokachu> thanks seb128
[14:20] <stgraber> I'm guessing seb128, smoser, NCommander and jamespage can also help with the uploads
[14:20] <jamespage> stgraber, yep
[14:20] <seb128> what uploads?
[14:20] <seb128> sponsoring you mean?
[14:21] <stokachu> yea me and arges would need sponsors
[14:21] <stgraber> seb128: yes, review + sponsoring of the changes stokachu and arges are working on
[14:21] <seb128> oh
[14:21] <seb128> yeah, feel free to ping me for any desktop upload
[14:21] <stokachu> could i kindly ask sponsors to monitor the 12.04.1 milestone :D
[14:21] <seb128> or just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors, I review the queue regularly for desktop uploads
[14:21] <stokachu> seb128: ok ill have 2 bugs for you soon as I talk to a coworker
[14:21] <seb128> stokachu, great
[14:22] <stgraber> would probably be nice if we could have a report of the 12.04.1 milestone listing all the bugs that have one of "patch attached", "branch linked", "fixed in development release"
[14:23] <stokachu> arges: ^
[14:23] <stokachu> :D
[14:23] <stgraber> that'd basically list most "easy" bugs that are just waiting for someone to cherry-pick and upload (or just sponsor if it's a debdiff/packaging branch)
[14:23] <stokachu> agreed
[14:23] <jamespage> stgraber, we've been using a SRU report for the server team packages that could be extended todo that
[14:23] <jamespage> http://people.canonical.com/~jamespage/server-sru/precise-sru.html
[14:23] <arges> stokachu, ack
[14:24] <jamespage> ATM its just used for assessing candidates and monitoring SRU progress
[14:24] <xnox> sponsorship page has (sru) tags, but not sure if it lists 12.04.1 explicitly
[14:25] <stgraber> xnox: right, and it assumes that someone subscribed sponsor to it, which isn't always the case when the bug is fixed in quantal but not in precise-updates
[14:25] <xnox> i see
[14:25] <stokachu> i wish we had 1 application to generate all these reports :D
[14:25] <stgraber> so can anyone take an action of getting some basic report for 12.04.1 online?
[14:25] <stokachu> xmarks laughs at me during bookmark s yncs
[14:26] <stokachu> stgraber: i think arges agreed to do it
[14:26] <arges> stokachu, ssh don't tell everybody....  ok i'll do it
[14:26] <xnox> stokachu: ultimate-debian-database has a lot of queriable bugs. maybe ubuntuwire can be consulted in those.
[14:26] <stokachu> xnox: sounds good to me :D
[14:26] <stgraber> #action arges to work on a 12.04.1 bug report, showing targeted bugs and information on status in development release, patches attached and branches linked
[14:26] <meetingology> ACTION: arges to work on a 12.04.1 bug report, showing targeted bugs and information on status in development release, patches attached and branches linked
[14:27] <skaet> :)
[14:27] <xnox> arges: now even google will now you are doing this =) by scaping meetingology logs
[14:27] <arges> oh noes
[14:27] <arges> yea, i have some scripts / pages i can adapt to do this
[14:28] <stgraber> #topic Round table
[14:28] <stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ echo $(shuf -e NCommander seb128 stgraber stokachu arges jibel skaet smoser jamespage xnox)
[14:28] <stgraber> stokachu smoser jibel seb128 NCommander arges jamespage xnox skaet stgraber
[14:29] <stgraber> stokachu: you win!
[14:29] <stokachu> yay!
[14:29]  * xnox is confused what is round table?
[14:29] <stokachu> xnox: was gonna ask the same thing LOL
[14:29] <xnox> stokachu: apparently it's like spin the wheel, cause you won!
[14:29] <seb128> stokachu, you are first, you figure it out!
[14:30] <stgraber> hehe, right. skaet suggested we have a quick roundtable to know what people have been up to regarding 12.04.1/SRU work for the past two weeks
[14:30] <seb128> stokachu, make something good from it ;-)
[14:30]  * xnox shall talk about fs stuff then?!
[14:30] <stokachu> ha.. first things first.. i wore pants today
[14:30] <seb128> is that unusual? don't feel like you have to get overdressed for those meetings :p
[14:31] <stgraber> so if you need help with somehting you're working on for 12.04.1, it's the right time to ask ;)
[14:31] <stgraber> xnox: yep, that'd be the right time to mention that
[14:31] <stokachu> We (SEG) have a pretty good idea of what needs SRU's and those that need more attention to get into SRU state. Once we have a compiled list for target milestone we will triage out the work to rest of team to get handled
[14:31] <stokachu> Right now multi-arch is our biggest workload for 12.04.1
[14:31] <stokachu> done
[14:32] <stgraber> smoser:
[14:32] <stgraber> hmm, haven't seen him in the meeting actually
[14:32] <stgraber> jibel:
[14:33] <jibel> hi
[14:33] <jibel> watching daily jobs, no failure with the images itselfs
[14:33] <jibel> re-ran failed jobs for i386 and they passed. connection to bazaar failed.
[14:34] <jibel> there is an issue on universe upgrade that will need to investigate. It fails from time to time and saw the same failure reported by the community
[14:34] <jibel> that's all from me
[14:34] <jibel> ..
[14:35] <stgraber> seb128:
[14:35] <seb128> we are looking at the user feedback and trying to address top issues from bugs reports and whoopsie
[14:35] <seb128> GNOME 3.4.2 updates are mostly in, there is no formal 3.4.3 planned so at this point we mostly cherry pick fixes
[14:36] <seb128> if you have any bugs that we should look at which is not milestoned let me know
[14:36] <seb128> otherwise we have steady flow on fixes uploaded, SRU team is having an hard time to review things in time
[14:36] <seb128> they had a meeting this week and say they should address that though so let's see
[14:36] <seb128> ..
[14:37] <stgraber> NCommander:
[14:38] <stgraber> arges:
[14:38] <arges> Working with SEG/stokachu to identify relevant bugs for 12.04.1, helping target bugs.
[14:38] <arges> ..
[14:38]  * xnox wonders if stgraber is running a timeout stopwatch
[14:38] <stgraber> jamespage:
[14:39] <jamespage> Refactored the Server SRU reporting to be series centric - http://people.canonical.com/~jamespage/server-sru/precise-sru.html
[14:39] <jamespage> 12.04.1 progress will also be discussed at the weekly server team meeting to monitor progress and discuss anything thats stuck.
[14:39] <arges> las
[14:39] <arges> whoops
[14:39] <jamespage> zul has been working on the first set of SRU's for openstack components
[14:40] <jamespage> and I've been nudging through a few SRU's myself...
[14:40] <jamespage> ..
[14:40] <stgraber> xnox:
[14:40] <xnox> I have been pondering what to do with various fs packages to make
[14:40] <xnox> 12.04.1 more stable/supportable release for the next 5 years.
[14:40] <xnox> FS updates plan for 12.04.1
[14:40] <xnox> * e2fsprogs 1.42-1ubuntu2 -> 1.42.4-3ubuntu1 (same as quantal)
[14:40] <xnox> ** http://pad.lv/978012
[14:40] <xnox> Stable SRUable micro point release, fixing importnant bugs and regressions
[14:40] <xnox> * mdadm 3.2.3-2ubuntu1 -> 3.2.5-1ubuntu1 (not done yet)
[14:40] <xnox> ** no bug number yet
[14:40] <xnox> Stable SRUable micro point release, fixing regressions.
[14:40] <xnox> Fixing packaging mistakes which left out: allowing to use
[14:40] <xnox> isw (intel martrix raid) and ddf (standard raid) in udev rules,
[14:40] <xnox> shipping required mdmon unitility for isw, settling events to
[14:40] <xnox> prevent boot timeouts and droping into initramfs.
[14:40] <xnox> * btrfs-progs
[14:41] <xnox> Will *not* get an SRU all the way from 20100601->20120328
[14:41] <xnox> I do want to provide a backport.
[14:41] <xnox> Will fix SRU like bugs which prevent booting without dropping
[14:41] <xnox> into initramfs shell.
[14:41] <xnox> * lvm2
[14:41] <xnox> May need SRU to fix some bugs, didn't check the list of open bugs yet.
[14:41] <xnox> Any others, that I am missing which potentially have 12.04.1
[14:41] <xnox> worthly stuff? Let me know, by subscribing me to the bugs on
[14:41] <xnox> launchpad. Is this minimal enough for SRU? I do not want this to
[14:41] <xnox> be treated as MRE or anything on-going.
[14:41] <xnox> discuss =)
[14:41] <xnox> ..
[14:41] <xnox> any questions?!
[14:41] <xnox> =)
[14:42] <stokachu> xnox: in 20 words or less can you describe the increasing velocity of a flying elephant against highwinds and in the winter?!?
[14:42] <xnox> stokachu: it's fairly constant
[14:42] <stokachu> nice!
[14:43] <skaet> :)
[14:43] <stgraber> xnox: I'll need to look, but I believe the new iscsi stack fixes some pretty nasty bugs we had in oneiric and precise (when your root fs is on iscsi)
[14:43]  * xnox takes a note to look into iscsi stack
[14:43] <stgraber> xnox: I worked around these in oneiric (by not starting the iscsi client daemon when / is on iscsi) but remember seeing bug activity that the new upstream fixes that and we should now be able to start the daemon without lossing access to /
[14:43] <xnox> well fedora shipped the 'new' scsi / kernel stack
[14:45]  * xnox wonders if iscsi is server's team responsibility or the foundations. me knows little about iscsi, unless I have to dive into that....
[14:45] <stgraber> xnox: the workaround was for bug 838809 and that caused bug 961114
[14:45] <xnox> stgraber: thanks.
[14:46] <stgraber> xnox: it's kind of blurry, IIRC server is doing the testing but for these bugs at least, I ended up being the one to work on them (so foundations)
[14:46] <stgraber> ..
[14:46] <stgraber> skaet:
[14:46] <jamespage> stgraber, I think I worked with you on that one
[14:46] <skaet> grouped all the 12.04.1 blueprints I could find together at:
[14:46] <skaet> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-release-sru-and-12.04.1.html
[14:46] <skaet> so we can monitor as we approach this point release.  If you know of one missed, not on the list, please let me know (or add it directly ;) ).
[14:46] <skaet> Started discussions off with stable release team on ways we can start to tame the backlog on the SRU pe
[14:46] <skaet> nding,  which overlaps with this a bit, but is solving a bigger problem.
[14:46] <skaet> ..
[14:46] <jamespage> xnox, I have some scripts that might help with testing
[14:47] <stgraber> stgraber:
[14:47]  * xnox jamespage:  yes please
[14:47] <stgraber> I've mostly been helping doing sru verification, looking at any >= 7 days item in the queue and trying to follow the testcases to get the in -updates
[14:47] <stgraber> that's been working quite well, unblocking quite a few SRUs. It's really painful for these that were pushed before the test case became a requirement though
[14:48] <stokachu> could we get help from QA on the SRU test cases portion?
[14:48] <xnox> stokachu: as far as I know QA does QA of the development release / automatation. not SRUs.
[14:49] <stgraber> there are also a few that seem to be stuck as nobody can actually confirm that they work. IIRC one is a bug that pretty much never happens (weird race condition) and another bug requires a new build of gfxboot + media in a weird language to check that the fix works (problem being, the language in question was never mentioned in the bug)
[14:49] <stokachu> xnox: that makes me sad
[14:49] <seb128> whoever fixed the bug probably has that info?
[14:49] <stgraber> jibel: can you maybe comment on what QA is doing/planning to do for 12.04.1?
[14:49] <seb128> well I don't think we have so many SRUS that we need QA help
[14:50] <seb128> it usually takes 5 minutes to follow the verification steps
[14:50] <stgraber> seb128: in gfxboot's case, no, because the "fix" is a LP translation refresh done by cjwatson, we need the reporter to re-test in their environment
[14:50] <seb128> I tend to do the desktop ones and we never got blocked so far
[14:50] <xnox> well precise daily images are being spinned and tested, as far as I know.
[14:51] <stgraber> xnox: not with -proposed
[14:51] <stokachu> tested as far as just installation and booting?
[14:52] <jibel> we do install testing of dailies, daily upgrade testing, we will do milestone testing for Ubuntu and can help with SRU verification on demand.
[14:52] <stokachu> sweet thanks jibel
[14:53] <stgraber> #topic AOB
[14:53] <stgraber> First thing, does this meeting format work for you?
[14:53] <stokachu> works4me
[14:54] <xnox> needs more funny jokes
[14:54] <stokachu> lol
[14:54] <stgraber> xnox: well, you have two weeks to write some down ;)
[14:54] <seb128> stgraber, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2012-April/005367.html
[14:55] <skaet> fine for me.
[14:55] <seb128> stgraber, that's the gfxboot bug
[14:55] <seb128> stgraber, we should probably apply the "diff looks sane, no visible regression" rule for it
[14:55] <stgraber> seb128: cool! with that it should be pretty easy to test. Yeah, that was my fallback option, just ensure that the diff is indeed just a translation refresh and mark it verification-done
[14:55] <seb128> stgraber, the meeting format works for me as well
[14:56] <arges> yes
[14:56] <stokachu> anyone considered transifex.net for localization on Ubuntu?
[14:57] <seb128> stokachu, do you keep the list of bugs you want to see fixed somewhere? or do you just milestone them the standard way?
[14:57] <stokachu> seb128: so far we've milestoned them
[14:57] <seb128> stokachu, no, we have launchpad translations
[14:57] <seb128> stokachu, why would we change for something less integrated to ubuntu?
[14:57] <xnox> stokachu: we have launchpad rossetta translations which are shared translations from all open-source projects with compatible licenses
[14:57] <stokachu> seb128: arges will have a report generated of the ones that need to be completed and those waiting on sponsorship etc
[14:57] <seb128> stokachu, ok
[14:57] <stgraber> I'll update the wiki and send the minutes to ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-release. If you have anything else to discuss before our next meeting, use the ubuntu-release mailing list.
[14:58] <xnox> stokachu: but launchpad generates languages statistics like that
[14:58] <stokachu> ah cool
[14:58] <arges> yup,
[14:58] <xnox> and it's not sponsorship, but approval needed, updated translations, released
[14:59] <stokachu> cool, simple enough :D
[14:59]  * arges writes that in his copy book.
[14:59] <xnox> stokachu: launchpad is the only thing that suggest translations from other packages such that you get a consistent translation across the whole desktop.
[14:59] <xnox> ..
[14:59] <xnox> AAOB?
[14:59] <stgraber> well, we're out of time. Thanks everyone for attending and see you all in two weeks!
[15:00] <stgraber> #endmeeting
[15:00] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun 14 15:00:01 2012 UTC.
[15:00] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-14-14.00.moin.txt
[15:00] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-14-14.00.html
[15:00] <stokachu> see ya!
[15:00]  * xnox thank you all
[15:00] <cjwatson> stgraber: Oh, I can do the gfxboot case, I've just been meaning to get around to sorting out images suitably built from -proposed
[15:02] <stgraber> cjwatson: that'd be great
[15:03] <seb128> thanks
[15:04] <seb128> stokachu, what's the issue with libdbusmenu multiarching?
[15:04] <seb128> i.e why bug #859512 just won a precise line?
[15:04] <seb128> stgraber, ^
[15:05] <stokachu> seb128: i think this is just being marked to make sure its included with point release
[15:05] <stokachu> in addition to appmenu-gtk multiarch fixes
[15:06] <seb128> stokachu, I though libdusmenu was multiarched before precise?
[15:06] <seb128> stokachu, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdbusmenu/0.5.0-1ubuntu1
[15:07] <stokachu> seb128: does this bug need to be closed then?
[15:08] <seb128> stokachu, well, I'm asking why it just got reopen, it was closed
[15:09] <seb128> stgraber, just opened a precise component for it follow what you said in the meeting I guess?
[15:09] <stgraber> seb128: yeah, I just accepted the nomination for all the bugs stokachu listed
[15:09] <stokachu> seb128: maybe i messed up somewhere
[15:20] <stokachu> seb128: can you re-close that bug then and we can remove it from sru list?
[15:22] <seb128> stokachu, where is the SRU list?
[15:23] <stokachu> seb128: sorry i meant the 12.04.1 milestone list on LP
[15:24] <seb128> stokachu, url?
[15:24] <seb128> stokachu, the milestones list should only list open bugs
[15:25] <seb128> stokachu, i.e that bug is closed it shouldn't have ever been on the list?
[15:25] <stokachu> seb128: ok we're good then
[15:25] <stokachu> seb128: i double checked and its not listed
[15:27] <stokachu> seb128: sorry my multitasking is sub par atm
[15:34] <seb128> stokachu, no worry
[16:00] <dholbach> o/
[16:00] <coolbhavi> hi dholbach
[16:00] <dholbach> anybody here for the MOTU meeting? :)
[16:00] <on3_g> <o/ dholbach
[16:01] <Riddell> Kubuntu meeting in #kubuntu-devel if anyone is here for it
[16:01] <dholbach> Riddell, oh sorry - is #ubuntu-meeting usually booked for the Kubuntu meeting at this time?
[16:01] <Riddell> dholbach: no I failed to do any booking
[16:02] <dholbach> yeah, we haven't finally agreed on meeting times which is why it's not on the Fridge yet, but it looked empty, so we went ahead :)
[16:02] <dholbach> coolbhavi, on3_g: maybe we just start and see who else hops in
[16:02] <dholbach> #startmeeting
[16:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 14 16:02:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:03] <dholbach> it seems the agenda is pretty much the same as last time: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
[16:03] <dholbach> but we can use that to catch up on the things we talked last time
[16:03] <dholbach> #topic meeting times
[16:03] <dholbach> so the last time we said this:
[16:03] <dholbach> Proposals: either keep time 16 UTC (every 2nd/4th Thursday), or use old
[16:03] <dholbach> MOTU meeting times: alternate between 4 UTC, 12 UTC and 20 UTC, or use
[16:03] <dholbach> the RMB meeting times: alternate between 12 UTC and 22 UTC.
[16:04] <dholbach> I started a separate thread on the motu mailing list and it'd be good if everybody weighed in with their personal preference
[16:04] <dholbach> coolbhavi, particularly for you I could imagine that other times than 16 UTC might work better :)
[16:05] <dholbach> I guess I'll send a reminder to the list about it again
[16:05] <dholbach> Ok, let's move on - the list will probably the best place to discuss it
[16:05] <dholbach> #topic MOTU School (Bhavani Shankar)
[16:05] <coolbhavi> dholbach, this time works for me most times except few times :) 16 UTC or earlier :)
[16:05] <Laney> I'd try to turn up at any reasonable UK time
[16:06] <Laney> but wouldn't get out of bed :P
[16:06] <dholbach> coolbhavi, ^ do you have updates on the MOTU school sessions?
[16:06] <dholbach> Laney, that's always a good place for meetings ;-)
[16:06] <coolbhavi> dholbach, sent out a doodle poll
[16:06] <dholbach> coolbhavi, did you send it to the motu list as well?
[16:07] <coolbhavi> on the proposed number and the sessions... Will post it to the list today got stuck
[16:07] <coolbhavi> with other work
[16:07] <coolbhavi> sorry for that
[16:08] <dholbach> coolbhavi, don't worry - if you send it to the list we should be fine :)
[16:08] <coolbhavi> sure dholbach
[16:08] <dholbach> great
[16:09] <dholbach> coolbhavi, did you have a chat with bobweaver or did he get in touch with you?
[16:09] <dholbach> he wanted to give a session already
[16:09] <statik> o/ sorry i'm late
[16:09] <dholbach> hey statik
[16:10] <dholbach> coolbhavi, also it might be worth writing up some kind of quick announcement text we can reuse for these sessions - I can help with getting it on the fridge or the ubuntu classroom blog
[16:11] <coolbhavi> dholbach, no but a member called joseph got in touch with me sure ll do that
[16:11] <dholbach> ah yes
[16:11] <dholbach> perfect
[16:11] <dholbach> if anyone has any suggestions or would like to volunteer for a motu school session, please get in touch with coolbhavi
[16:11] <coolbhavi> ll mail bob today btw
[16:11] <dholbach> excellent
[16:12] <dholbach> alright, let's move on to the next point :)
[16:12] <dholbach> #topic Review MOTU/FAQ/New_Draft (Bhavani Shankar)
[16:12] <dholbach> coolbhavi is definitely dominating the agenda today :)
[16:12] <dholbach> coolbhavi, did anyone get in touch with you about the draft?
[16:12] <coolbhavi> dholbach, :-) unfortunately on list I got no response
[16:13] <coolbhavi> so I wanted to mail again this weekend
[16:13] <dholbach> perfect
[16:13] <dholbach> I think if we can mix and match old and new content it should be fine
[16:14] <dholbach> there are surely some parts which can be borrowed from the old page :)
[16:14] <coolbhavi> dholbach, yes a bit of editing would do good most of old page still has valuable content
[16:15] <dholbach> perfect
[16:15] <dholbach> alright
[16:15] <dholbach> it seems like the rest of the agenda is only 'fixed' agenda items - does anyone have anything else they wanted to bring up?
[16:15] <vibhav> umm
[16:15] <vibhav> About the MOTU school
[16:16] <dholbach> hi vibhav
[16:16] <coolbhavi> vibhav, hey
[16:16] <vibhav> I think it might be better if the MOTU who is taking the school seesion conducts a poll on which topic should be covered
[16:16] <vibhav> hi dholbach
[16:17] <Laney> \o
[16:17] <dholbach> vibhav, we have in the past conducted a couple of these polls
[16:17] <vibhav> dholbach: How were the results?
[16:17] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Requests might be useful content to review
[16:18] <vibhav> I mean ah, didn't know that
[16:18] <dholbach> no worries - these wiki page are not exactly easy to find :)
[16:18] <vibhav> That is the point
[16:19] <vibhav> We should make the wiki pages more easy to find
[16:19] <dholbach> but yeah, it's not exactly front-facing content :)
[16:20] <dholbach> but it might help making decision which sessions to give
[16:20] <vibhav> yup
[16:20] <vibhav> Social Networks, at this point, might be usefull
[16:20] <dholbach> vibhav, but if you want, you could maybe write an email or microblog about it and solicit some feedback on packaging training sessions
[16:20] <vibhav> sure
[16:20] <dholbach> that'd be awesome
[16:21] <coolbhavi> dholbach, two days back  in d-a-t meeting we discussed about g+ hangouts
[16:21] <coolbhavi> :)
[16:21] <vibhav> Ill ask jono about integrating some MOTU stuff in Ubuntu Acomplishments
[16:21] <vibhav> Encouraging new Developers
[16:21] <dholbach> ah yes, that's nice ideas
[16:22] <dholbach> so with some additional mailing list posts and some microblogging I hope we can get some more ideas, so we can probably just leave the item on the agenda page for next time
[16:22] <dholbach> Laney, you had something to discuss as well?
[16:23] <Laney> I just thought I would mention that Kubuntu is going to Universe imminently
[16:23] <Laney> and they have some particular conventions that they would like people to follow
[16:24] <Laney> mainly pushing to some special branches
[16:24] <Laney> should we let people know?
[16:24] <vibhav> yup
[16:24] <coolbhavi> dholbach, do u think d-a-t might help in providing pointers in here as in encouraging new developers?
[16:24] <dholbach> Laney, do you know if that's documented or mentioned somewhere?
[16:24] <Laney> perhaps Riddell or ScottK know more
[16:25] <ScottK> Kubuntu is going to Universe.
[16:25] <vibhav> Though it might be bit offtopic, but I think that a
[16:25] <vibhav> MOTU mascot is needed
[16:25] <ScottK> People just need to pay attention to the VCS info in the packages.
[16:26] <coolbhavi> vibhav, mascot as in?
[16:26] <vibhav> (But that would make it a bit childish, so never mind :) )
[16:26] <Riddell> Laney: the vcs lines are in debian/control
[16:26] <dholbach> coolbhavi, vibhav: can we talk about this in a bit?
[16:26] <vibhav> sure
[16:26] <dholbach> let's talk about Kubuntu first
[16:26] <dholbach> thanks
[16:26] <Riddell> another kubuntu convention is not to make upstream changes unless there's a clear route to it getting upstream
[16:27] <Laney> there are a lot of Vcs lines in debian/control that Ubuntu developers ignore
[16:27] <vibhav> yes
[16:27] <dholbach> Riddell, have you considered bringing this up on a mailing list or blog post somewhere?
[16:27] <dholbach> u-d-a might be even a good place for this
[16:27] <Riddell> dholbach: not thought about it no
[16:28]  * ScottK would have thought it was reasonably obvious.
[16:28]  * ScottK doesn't touch Xubuntu stuff without talking to Xuubntu people first.
[16:28] <vibhav> Ive observed some ubuntu-deltas with the vcs links still of debain instead of the bazaar vcs links
[16:28] <dholbach> I think it's important enough - and would provide everybody with an update of what's going on in Kubuntu
[16:28] <vibhav> I agree with dholbach
[16:29] <vibhav> Explaining what universe actaully is might be the first step towards this
[16:29] <dholbach> are any other big changes with regard to Kubuntu en route?
[16:30] <Riddell> dholbach: not currently, the business side is waiting on canonical to sort out the trademark agreement
[16:30]  * dholbach nods
[16:30] <Riddell> otherwise it's business as usual
[16:30] <dholbach> but the universe move is already happening?
[16:30] <ScottK> Yes.
[16:30] <Riddell> dholbach: I believe cjwatson is on the case as we type
[16:30] <ScottK> Imminent.
[16:30] <dholbach> ok, cool
[16:30] <ScottK> It depends on if his coffee is large enoug.
[16:31] <dholbach> I hope this will play out posivitely for Kubuntu.
[16:31] <vibhav> We will also need to assure people that Kubuntu has not been discontinued
[16:31] <vibhav> or is dead
[16:32] <cjwatson> I think I may need a second coffee for it.
[16:32] <micahg> I don't think anyone has that opinion
[16:32] <dholbach> Ok, if that's all in terms of Kubuntu, I guess we can move on. Thanks a lot for the update in any case.
[16:33] <Laney> I think it's interesting for MOTU, and that there are also things that people need to be aware of.
[16:33] <Laney> That's all I wanted to raise.
[16:33] <Riddell> dholbach: if you see any powerful canonical people do get them to nudge steve george into doing the agreement
[16:33] <dholbach> Yes, thanks for that - I knew that the change was about to happen, but didn't know when.
[16:33] <cjwatson> I've checked that the CD images seem to be building with universe now, and I've checked all the archive scripts I can think of to make sure they won't explode
[16:34] <cjwatson> Then component-mismatches looks like it'll do this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1041070/
[16:35] <vibhav> Does this mean, one can no longer install commercial apps in Kubuntu?
[16:35] <cjwatson> So I need to sit and think about how sane all that is
[16:35] <cjwatson> vibhav: Totally unrelated
[16:35] <vibhav> excuse me, I got a bit confused
[16:35] <Laney> let's keep it related to MOTU.
[16:36] <vibhav> yeah sure
[16:36] <vibhav> sorry :(
[16:37] <dholbach> ok, in that case - let's move on
[16:38] <dholbach> vibhav, you wanted to bring up the idea of a mascot - as I know this has been talked about in the past a couple of times, I would suggest you flesh out a concrete idea and submit it to the mailing list first - because we spent a lot of IRC hours on the topic already :)
[16:38] <AnAnt_> Hello
[16:38] <vibhav> yup
[16:38] <dholbach> hi AnAnt_
[16:38] <AnAnt_> sory for being late
[16:38] <dholbach> AnAnt_, no worries - maybe somebody can give you the logs of what we talked about up until now
[16:39] <dholbach> Looking at the agenda, I don't have much from the Developer Advisory Team to report, but the next agenda item might be good to talk about
[16:39] <AnAnt_> ok
[16:39] <dholbach> #topic https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
[16:39] <dholbach> Andrew Starr-Bochicchio and I had a stab at updating it for the bug fixing initiative for the next two weeks
[16:40] <dholbach> so I'd appreciate if you could take a look at it and say what you think about it
[16:40] <dholbach> or if you have suggestions for new small tasks we could offer to new contributors
[16:40] <vibhav> hmm...let me see
[16:41] <dholbach> I was quite happy with the typo-in-package-description-in-ubuntu-packages one, as some came up with fixes very quickly and for some it was their first interaction with the ubuntu development process and the ones I talked to enjoyed it
[16:41] <dholbach> I plan to announce the initiative on monday and also blog about the contributors from the fixes which already went in
[16:41] <vibhav> "Correcting VCS links for Ubuntu Deltas"
[16:41] <ScottK> Is that really worth the trouble?
[16:42] <vibhav> nope, but still baby steps for new contributors
[16:42]  * coolbhavi just mailed doodle poll on MOTU school to the list
[16:43] <ScottK> Part of motivating new people is that their contributions feel useful.
[16:43] <ScottK> Don't make the stuff too obviously make work.
[16:43]  * vibhav slaps forhead
[16:44] <dholbach> ScottK, is there anything you'd suggest?
[16:44] <dholbach> or any feedback on the page? :)
[16:44]  * ScottK looks
[16:44] <vibhav> The page looks perfect to me
[16:45] <vibhav> It includes all the ways I started with MOTU contribution
[16:45] <ScottK> Missing man pages?
[16:46] <dholbach> ah yes, that might work
[16:46] <dholbach> we'd need to point to some good documentation
[16:46] <Laney> http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/quantal/tags.html
[16:46] <Laney> there must be some stuff in there
[16:46] <dholbach> and how to get them included in the top-most upstream project :)
[16:47] <micahg> vibhav: in most cases, the Vcs links don't need correcting, it's either lp:ubuntu/foo or specified, and certainly isn't worth an upload to add XS-Debian-*
[16:47] <dholbach> maybe we could check if there's "home-grown" packages where we could add man pages and add these as a task for new contributors
[16:47] <AnAnt_> ah, tags !
[16:47] <dholbach> and for more experienced contributors add the step of forwarding the manpages to an upstream project?
[16:47] <AnAnt_> I mean adding deb tags
[16:47] <AnAnt_> I mean adding deb tags to packages
[16:47] <ScottK> http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/quantal/tags/debhelper-but-no-misc-depends.html for packages that have an Ubuntu diff might be good.
[16:48] <ScottK> They can submit the diff to Debian too for those that are in Debian.
[16:48] <AnAnt_> adding deb tags is maybe not packaging work, but it is a good contribution I think
[16:48] <vibhav> fixing lintian errors is one of the best ways to get started with MOTU imho
[16:48] <Laney> http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/quantal/tags/brace-expansion-in-debhelper-config-file.html
[16:49] <AnAnt_> debtags.alioth.debian.org/
[16:49] <dholbach> ScottK, Laney: both good ideas - would you mind adding them to the page? I then could try to find a way to easily filter out packages which are only in Ubuntu, so we could separate the two groups of packages
[16:50] <dholbach> AnAnt_, are there good instructions for debtags at the page or is there a list for tags which are currently requested or wanted?
[16:50] <ScottK> dholbach: I'm multitasking about three ways right now, so no.
[16:50] <dholbach> ScottK, I know the feeling
[16:51] <AnAnt_> dholbach: yes, it can be done on the website itself, one selects from a list of existing tabs for each package
[16:51] <dholbach> AnAnt_, I think it's a nice idea - could you imagine adding a couple of sentences to the wiki page about the effort?
[16:52] <AnAnt_> dholbach: this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings ?
[16:52] <dholbach> ah no, sorry
[16:52] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
[16:52] <AnAnt_> ok
[16:53] <AnAnt_> hmmm, it isn't really related to BugFixing
[16:53] <dholbach> great - this should give us heaps of tasks for new contributors in the next two weeks :)
[16:53] <Laney> I added something
[16:53] <dholbach> thanks a lot Laney
[16:53] <dholbach> ScottK, I noted down your idea, so I'll see if I can do about it tomorrow
[16:53] <Laney> it might not be very new-contributor friendly, so somebody should proof read
[16:53] <dholbach> I have another meeting after this one and then need to head out
[16:54] <dholbach> Laney, if it's too hard, we could just move it to the "intermediate" section or however we want to call it :)
[16:55] <Laney> ok
[16:55] <Laney> I meant my wording :P
[16:55] <dholbach> AnAnt_, it might still be a nice introduction - even if it's a tiny little bit unrelated - it's still worthwhile :)
[16:55] <Laney> but I see your point also
[16:55] <dholbach> haha ok
[16:55] <dholbach> I'll take a look at it tomorrow
[16:55] <AnAnt_> ok
[16:55] <dholbach> ok, we have 5 minutes left - is there anything else we should talk about?
[16:56] <dholbach> I don't mind doing the minutes, but I'll do them tomorrow, and for the next meeting and meeting chair we'll wait on the results of the discussion on the mailing list
[16:56] <dholbach> If there's nothing more, I'd like to thank all of you for coming - keep up the good work! :-)
[16:57] <AnAnt_> thanks
[16:57] <dholbach> #endmeeting
[16:57] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun 14 16:57:09 2012 UTC.
[16:57] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-14-16.02.moin.txt
[16:57] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-14-16.02.html
[16:59] <vibhav> good night!