[04:09] ::qt-bugs:: [1013468] package libqtcore4 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.1 failed to install/upgrade: conffile './etc/xdg/Troll... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013468 (by Michael Yesutin) [04:09] Launchpad bug 1013468 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu) "package libqtcore4 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.1 failed to install/upgrade: conffile './etc/xdg/Trolltech.conf' is not in sync with other instances of the same package" [Undecided,New] [04:21] that kdevelop patch on kde-release should clear the NBS okteta libs off the list, so I'm pbuilding it now [04:21] *kde-packager === m4v is now known as mkv [08:02] hola amigos [08:05] Riddell: good morning sir [08:07] hi [09:29] ::runtime-bugs:: [1011961] sftp connection with password fails @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1011961 (by Arrigo Marchiori) [09:29] Launchpad bug 1011961 in KDE Base Runtime "sftp connection with password fails" [High,Confirmed] [09:32] apachelogger: why has kubotu started posting random bugs? [10:09] Riddell: cause I made it also [10:09] so [10:09] not random tho [10:09] runtime & workspace === Blizzzek is now known as Blizzz === apachelogger changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - Friendly Computing | Council Election - Vote Now! | Status: http://goo.gl/ZGGJP | Packaging TODO (4.8.90): http://notes.kde.org/kubuntu-ninjas | meeting: Thu 14th 16:00UTC https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings [11:15] hello everybody! I have reported a bug and I would like to know if I have to do anything to have it fixed. Bug is #1011961 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-runtime/+bug/1011961) and there is also a patch. [11:15] Launchpad bug 1011961 in KDE Base Runtime "sftp connection with password fails" [High,Confirmed] [11:16] Riddell: any thoughts about that ^^ [11:17] rigo: keep poking upstream [11:17] e-mail kde-devel list if no reply on the bug [11:20] Riddell: thank you for the suggestions. However, I would expect the KDE developers to fix this in the next KDE versions. How about Ubuntu? The patch could just be integrated without waiting for upstream... couldn't it? [11:21] sure it could [11:21] it coudl also then break something [11:23] apachelogger: sure it could :-) Is there anything I can do to encourage testing of that patch? [11:27] make test packages maybe [11:29] Hey all [11:31] hi BluesKaj [11:33] hi soee [11:35] ::runtime-bugs:: [1011961] sftp connection with password fails @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1011961 (by Arrigo Marchiori) [11:35] Launchpad bug 1011961 in KDE Base Runtime "sftp connection with password fails" [High,Confirmed] [12:53] Riddell: audiocd-kio accepted. Thanks. [12:54] ScottK: yay [12:55] BBL [12:55] Even though it'll get demoted soon, I accepted into Main since it's a split of Main source and it'll build faster. [12:59] ScottK: libkasten1* is NBS and is now rdepends free, except for the dependencies among themselves. [13:00] OK. There's a regular cleanup process for such things, so I'll leave it to that. I am currently working on Bug #1013242, however. [13:00] Launchpad bug 1013242 in kdemultimedia (Ubuntu) "Remove kdemultimedia source package from quantal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013242 [13:00] ok, cool === ikonia is now known as ikonia_ === ikonia_ is now known as ikonia [13:53] , BBL [14:02] Riddell: sorry for the long away time. When you say "make test packages" do you also mean "and publish them somewhere"? I did make some packages at work, applying the patch before the compilation, and they seem to work fine. [14:25] Hi, sorry to intrude but are there any plans for 4.8.90 on precise? [14:31] kio_http: There will be packages in the beta PPA when they are ready. [14:31] Sounds good ... thanks [14:36] ::qt-bugs:: [1013686] package libqt4-designer 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.1 failed to install/upgrade: short read on buffer... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013686 (by alfonex) [14:36] Launchpad bug 1013686 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu) "package libqt4-designer 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.1 failed to install/upgrade: short read on buffer copy for backend dpkg-deb during `./usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libQtDesigner.so.4.8.1'" [Undecided,New] [14:49] It's possible I was just sarcastic on ubuntu-devel (ML). [14:57] ScottK: a little yes. but the development-release-is-stable is something that's interesting, we could consider using it instead of all these time consuming backports [14:58] True. [14:58] I think 'let's not freeze because dailies are great' is a bit ridiculous. [15:00] wouldn't what rick proposes need to be applied for everything? [15:00] i.e. without basic valdiation nothing gets out of proposed [15:01] if so then I'd consider that a bigger drag on velocity than one week of cherry pick blockage [15:05] * cjwatson starts the move of Kubuntu to universe in quantal, per discussion on kubuntu-devel@ and IRC. [15:06] \o/ [15:06] :) [15:06] :-( [15:06] I can be a master of the universe again [15:06] though I thought there was no conclusion on the discussion [15:06] ScottK: It might be worth looking into some kind of parallel MIR-lite process. It wouldn't be very hard to e.g. maintain a list of the things that have been checked. [15:06] then again no one was really loking for a conclusion *Shrug* [15:07] apachelogger: I think it was clear where the balance of opinion was. [15:14] *shrug* [15:14] Done. [15:19] apachelogger: hey :) I'm doing some changes to add-printer wizard of print manager, what do you think about the following? (I removed the huge icon here) [15:19] http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/15/plasma-desktopBZ1944.png [15:19] kubuntu-ninjas PPAs is actually quite wuick at building, it's the publishing which takes hours :( [15:20] Riddell: hours? :O [15:20] wtf [15:20] dantti_laptop: me likes [15:20] dantti_laptop: except I would put the ppdf file thigny at the bottom [15:20] apachelogger: one or two hours [15:20] and add a filter label [15:21] hmm I didn't thought about putting it at the bottom.. let me try [15:21] * apachelogger always found it quite silly that in apparently no printer installer we ever had you were able to filter the lists [15:21] it filtered first but now I'm not sure it will work.. [15:21] so you end up scrolling left until you find Foo and then Foo has 3000 drivers and you end up scrolling all to the end of the drivers pane [15:21] dantti_laptop: well, assuming it cannot autodetect the driver [15:22] so you go manually looking for it [15:22] which I reckon can often be the case as otherwise I fail to see the point of the lists ;) [15:22] yes, it's just a bit trick to search on trees [15:23] dantti_laptop: so what I would do is add *one* filter that filters the driver names [15:23] Riddell: PPA publishing is fairly dreadful. There's work on "diskless archives" being considered at the moment to improve it. [15:24] Because it bites the Consumer Apps work for software-center. [15:24] so if I enter 9000 there, the left hand pane would only display brands that have a driver that matches 9000 and the right hand pane will only display the matching drivers per brand [15:24] apachelogger: I know its the search algorith that is trick.. since it's a tree we had a hard time when doing this for polkit kcm... [15:24] That said I believe there's been some emergency patching done of late to try to improve things. [15:25] dantti_laptop: simply traverse all child nodes? [15:25] cjwatson: do you know who's incharge of the language pack infrastructure these days? [15:25] dpm? [15:25] you'll get away with n*regexcmp [15:27] apachelogger: it's not that simple, since you can't hide the parent on the match.. [15:27] huh? [15:27] Riddell: I'd start with him, at least. Martin probably still has his fingers in bits of it, knowing him. [15:27] why that is silly [15:27] dantti_laptop: does it need to be a tree? [15:27] to hide a make you need to check all childs [15:28] dantti_laptop: you need to do that anyway [15:28] n is the amount of known drivers [15:28] you need to regex all known drivers [15:28] well you need to do it twice.. [15:28] dantti_laptop: why? [15:28] apachelogger: the KC election... there's only one spot open? [15:28] dantti_laptop: you go through all parents, and decend into their children, if no children matches the parent gets hidden [15:29] the algorithm will check each node, first on parent then on childs.. [15:29] maco: no, dunno why it says so [15:29] apachelogger: how many? [15:29] 3 [15:29] ok [15:29] on the parent you chekc the childs to see if it should be visible.. [15:29] half the team gets elected once a year [15:29] ok [15:29] dantti_laptop: ah you mean a predefiend algorithm? [15:30] dpm: language packs? I think we need to turn the language-pack-kde packages into simple meta packages depending on kde-l10n-xx and other bits, how do we do that? [15:30] apachelogger: the sortfilterModel... [15:30] apachelogger: http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/15/plasma-desktopLR1944.png [15:30] cjwatson: a few of the new KDE source packages haven't been demoted yet: audiocd-kio, kscd and libkcompactdisc (they show up on component-mismatch) [15:30] dantti_laptop: make your own filter model [15:30] debfx: Yeah, those were already listed for moving but I only initially processed the ones that changed as a direct result of telling component-mismatches to consider only Ubuntu [15:31] apachelogger: sure I need to , but I 'll need to manually do that, which is boring... [15:31] lol [15:31] dantti_laptop: it's like 20 sloc for the algorithm :P [15:31] unless you thread the filtering, which would be really fancy ^^ [15:32] like if a parent has > thresh nodes you run the scan in a thraed ^^ [15:32] debfx: Done now, thanks [15:33] 16:33 < skaet_> Riddell, will you follow up with the images you want for Kubuntu for 12.04.1 as well? [15:33] what do we want? [15:34] real food [15:34] what are the options? [15:34] when do we want it? [15:34] * apachelogger wants pony images [15:34] (we're chanting right?) [15:35] maco: you are not a fish, you are a person [15:35] apachelogger: I'll let that for later :P I'm also thinking on merging these two http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/15/plasma-desktopBL1944.png http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/15/plasma-desktopLs1944.png [15:35] apachelogger: presumably desktop, can we be bothered with alternate? I'm wanting to say no to arm, active, dvd, powerpc, amd64+mac [15:36] Just wanted to stop in and say I appreciate the hard work you guys put in to Kubuntu. [15:36] apachelogger: removing the left icon and puting it next to the printers list, pretty much like what s-c-p does today.. [15:36] Thanks. [15:36] Riddell: I'd leave alternate, dvd seems worthwhile tho [15:36] Aptar: :) [15:36] magazines like to put DVDs on their DVDs [15:37] which is a common source for users [15:37] that's the DVD we just dropped for 12.10? [15:37] yes [15:37] with 12.10 we do put useful stuff on the desktop image tho :P [15:44] I have to leave this channel now. Thank you and good bye! [15:49] Riddell, I've no idea about how language pack dependencies work, I think pitti might be the best person to talk to [16:37] ::qt-bugs:: [1013686] package libqt4-designer 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.1 failed to install/upgrade: short read on buffer... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013686 (by alfonex) [16:37] Launchpad bug 1013686 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu) "package libqt4-designer 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.1 failed to install/upgrade: short read on buffer copy for backend dpkg-deb during `./usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libQtDesigner.so.4.8.1'" [Undecided,Invalid] [16:40] final bits compiling (that are going to compile) for precise 4.8.90 now [16:54] wheee .. moved to universe :D === mkv is now known as symphony [17:46] I'll move 4.8.4 to the updates ppa once kde4libs finished building [17:46] debfx: problems got sorted? [17:46] Riddell: yep, upstream reverted 2 commits [17:46] great [17:47] For KDE GUI app development using Python, how is Eclipse? [17:47] MountainX: hmm no idea I'm afraid, never tried it [17:48] I don't an IDE person myself, I use Kate or emacs [17:48] s/don't/not/ [17:48] Riddell meant: "I not an IDE person myself, I use Kate or emacs" [17:49] MountainX: we have this thing called KDevelop [17:49] Tm_T: not particularly useful when writing python code fwiw [17:49] Yes, I am deciding between KDevelop and Eclipse... [17:49] but meh, if you're writing python, I'm unsure what difference IDE would make [17:49] Kate for python [17:49] or vim [17:49] I've also no idea how KDevelop is for Python [17:50] Idle is the python Qt IDE, it's always scared me by having about 100 toolbar buttons in it's default UI [17:50] :D [17:50] Tm_T: same thing as in c++ surely [17:50] oh btw [17:50] I'm not a full time developer so I want to learn just one IDe. Eclipse is something I could use for many different projects, so I was hoping I might also use it for Python-KDE projects. [17:50] tab completion, quick links to api etc, quick buttons for execution etc [17:50] apparently there's a GSoC on improving KDE Accessibility this time [17:51] so hopefully we will have better a11y in the coming releases [17:51] ...now if I could find a reasonable Kate-replacement that would work in a browser for example [17:51] in a browser? [17:51] there's going to be a standard library ( Atleast that's what I was told by the student doing the GSoC ) for apps to export a11y interfaces [17:51] Riddell: yeah, been testing if I can do my work just by having a browser [17:52] Tm_T: you are google's dream [17:52] Riddell: well, now that you mentioned it... http://www.tm-travolta.net/shots/chrome-elinks.png [17:52] chrome can be used for browsing too ^^ [17:53] Tm_T: oh my [17:53] @_@ [17:53] who in their right minds would use that [17:53] elinks? [17:54] yes [17:54] why not, although I usually do use lynx [17:54] ...when I use TUI browser [17:54] w3m is the best [17:55] unlike apachelogger, I'm a sane person, hence I use full featured browsers :P [17:55] not lynx ... [17:55] not that I've got anything against people using lynkx [17:55] *lynx [17:56] Riddell: +1 w3m ftw [17:56] Anyone know if KDevelop has code completion for Python? [17:57] MountainX: I heavily doubt you'll find IDE's that do code completion for python [17:57] * Riddell never tried python in KDevelop [17:57] I did search for it one time [17:57] but gave up and started typing out stuff in kate [17:57] and surprisingly the code worked :P [17:57] Actually there are lots of them that do code completion for Python [17:57] you only need to take care of spaces [17:58] MountainX: not true code completion, kate only completes for stuff that you've already written in the file [17:58] unlike C++, where you have proper parsers and what not [17:59] I don't know what "true code completion" is, but I know that there are several Python IDEs that claim to offer code completion. I watched a video on it. [17:59] And I used IPython which has really code tab completion. [17:59] *really cool [18:00] it would be entirely possible to have code completion in an IDE, python is very introspectable [18:00] the IDE would just need to ask the library what classes and methods it has [18:01] I did see a kdevelop dev trying to do code completion in javascript one time many years ago, not a pretty sight [18:01] Being that I only dabble in coding, I don't want to learn a lot of different tools. But I do want to be able to write KDE GUI apps in Python. So I'm looking for the one best IDE to learn. [18:02] * shadeslayer usually has python docs + kate [18:02] that's all [18:02] shadeslayer++ [18:03] that's how I'm learning erlang as well :P [18:03] what's erlang? [18:03] @shadeslayer. I don't understand what you are saying. I've seen several Python IDEs that offer code completion, including the big well-known names including PyDev plugin for Eclipse [18:04] MountainX: right, and I'm saying you *don't* need a python IDE [18:04] Riddell: highly concurrent programming language used by Telco's for handling GSM Calls and stuff [18:04] used in other stuff as well [18:05] but it was developed by Ericsson primarily for GSM [18:05] I don't need it as long as I want to use just IPython, but I find an IDE useful for my style of work. [18:05] MountainX: you're coming from a C/C++ background right? :P [18:06] I knew C/C++ around 20 years ago. I consider myself as starting from almost nothing now. Just learning Python. [18:06] MountainX: ok, trust me, you really don't need a IDE :P [18:07] in python all you need are docs and a text editor [18:07] I had a *very* hard time starting with python because I was so used to IDE's [18:07] I want a forms designer for sure. And once I have that, I might as well have the other stuff an IDE offers. [18:08] ah, a ui form designer, there's a separate app for that [18:08] QtDesigner or sth [18:08] so no need for a entire IDE :) [18:09] why don't you like IDEs? [18:10] stepping through code with a debugger is really helpful. IDEs make that easy. I'm not sure how to do that with just Kate. [18:10] MountainX: I use QtCreator extensively with C++ [18:10] so it's not that I don't like IDE's :D [18:11] but IDE's don't make sense with python, because python is .... different [18:11] Python in interpreted. But an IDE is just as useful in Python as it is in C++ [18:11] especially with a forms designer [18:12] BTW, here is a good list of Python IDEs: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/81584/what-ide-to-use-for-python [18:13] * shadeslayer still disagrees with using IDE's for python, because they just slow people down when programming in python [18:14] also, top answer is vim, which is what I already suggested at the beginning of the discussion [18:14] Integrated Python debugging (to name one example) doesn't "just slow people down". [18:15] dunno, I usually use pydb and ! in vim [18:15] I'm not willing to invest the time to learn vim (or emacs) because I'm not a full time developer. I want a solution that is easy to pick back up when I haven't touched it after a 2 or 3 month break. [18:15] IDEs are good for reminding you what to do [18:17] And Eclipse plus the PyDev plugin is the #2 recommendation from that stackoverflow thread, and that's what I came here asking about. I want to know if it is nearly as suitable as KDevelop for Python KDE dev work. [18:18] If Eclipse plus the PyDev plugin is *almost* as good as KDevelop for Python work, I'll use it because I can also use Eclipse for Java and Android and some other things I want to dabble in. [18:20] I've never used Eclipse, so you'll have to experiment on your own there :) [18:20] Pretty sure it won't be able to handle ui forms [18:21] OK. I'll check that and see what the options are for UI forms. Thanks. [18:21] QtDesigner [18:22] and iirc KDE has something for ui files as well [18:22] don't use it, so don't remember the name tbh :P [18:23] I just found this: http://popdevelop.com/2010/04/setting-up-ide-and-creating-a-cross-platform-qt-python-gui-application/ [18:27] MountainX: I'm also not sure about using PyQt4, I personally favor PySide :P [18:27] true, I like PySide better too. [18:27] primarily because it had better support for QML and to a lesser extent, their site design [18:29] One reason I liked PySide because there aren't two different language versions (so simpler for me) and the one version uses the newer slots and signals standard. [18:29] ah cool [18:32] OK, based on your feedback, maybe I'll just start with separate tools until I find an IDE I like. I can use IPython, Qt Designer, PySide, Kate, git, etc. But I'll have to figure out a good solution for code refactoring and integrated debugging... [18:35] using Unix as a IDE ;) [18:36] yeah, true. Why not? [18:49] Where can I download Qt Designer? [18:49] apt-get install designer-qt4 [18:50] duh! Thanks. Google was misleading me. [18:50] er, that's the wrong name [18:50] qt4-designer ;-) [18:50] I'll find it with apt-cache search === symphony is now known as k4v [21:49] shadeslayer: actually I used w3m recently === k4v is now known as m4v