[04:09] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1013468] package libqtcore4 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.1 failed to install/upgrade: conffile './etc/xdg/Troll... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013468 (by Michael Yesutin)
[04:21] <JontheEchidna> that kdevelop patch on kde-release should clear the NBS okteta libs off the list, so I'm pbuilding it now
[04:21] <JontheEchidna> *kde-packager
[08:02] <Riddell> hola amigos
[08:05] <jussi> Riddell: good morning sir
[08:07] <soee> hi
[09:29] <kubotu> ::runtime-bugs:: [1011961] sftp connection with password fails @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1011961 (by Arrigo Marchiori)
[09:32] <Riddell> apachelogger: why has kubotu started posting random bugs?
[10:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: cause I made it also
[10:09] <apachelogger> so
[10:09] <apachelogger> not random tho
[10:09] <apachelogger> runtime & workspace
[11:15] <rigo> hello everybody! I have reported a bug and I would like to know if I have to do anything to have it fixed. Bug is #1011961 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-runtime/+bug/1011961) and there is also a patch.
[11:16] <jussi> Riddell: any thoughts about that ^^
[11:17] <Riddell> rigo: keep poking upstream
[11:17] <Riddell> e-mail kde-devel list if no reply on the bug
[11:20] <rigo> Riddell: thank you for the suggestions. However, I would expect the KDE developers to fix this in the next KDE versions. How about Ubuntu? The patch could just be integrated without waiting for upstream... couldn't it?
[11:21] <apachelogger> sure it could
[11:21] <apachelogger> it coudl also then break something
[11:23] <rigo> apachelogger: sure it could :-) Is there anything I can do to encourage testing of that patch?
[11:27] <Riddell> make test packages maybe
[11:29] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[11:31] <soee> hi BluesKaj 
[11:33] <BluesKaj> hi soee
[11:35] <kubotu> ::runtime-bugs:: [1011961] sftp connection with password fails @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1011961 (by Arrigo Marchiori)
[12:53] <ScottK> Riddell: audiocd-kio accepted.  Thanks.
[12:54] <Riddell> ScottK: yay
[12:55] <BluesKaj> BBL
[12:55] <ScottK> Even though it'll get demoted soon, I accepted into Main since it's a split of Main source and it'll build faster.
[12:59] <jtechidna> ScottK: libkasten1* is NBS and is now rdepends free, except for the dependencies among themselves.
[13:00] <ScottK> OK.  There's a regular cleanup process for such things, so I'll leave it to that.  I am currently working on Bug #1013242, however.
[13:00] <jtechidna> ok,  cool
[13:53] <BluesKaj> , BBL
[14:02] <rigo> Riddell: sorry for the long away time. When you say "make test packages" do you also mean "and publish them somewhere"? I did make some packages at work, applying the patch before the compilation, and they seem to work fine.
[14:25] <kio_http> Hi, sorry to intrude but are there any plans for 4.8.90 on precise?
[14:31] <ScottK> kio_http: There will be packages in the beta PPA when they are ready.
[14:31] <kio_http> Sounds good ... thanks
[14:36] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1013686] package libqt4-designer 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.1 failed to install/upgrade: short read on buffer... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013686 (by alfonex)
[14:49] <ScottK> It's possible I was just sarcastic on ubuntu-devel (ML).
[14:57] <Riddell> ScottK: a little yes.  but the development-release-is-stable is something that's interesting, we could consider using it instead of all these time consuming backports
[14:58] <ScottK> True.
[14:58] <ScottK> I think 'let's not freeze because dailies are great' is a bit ridiculous.
[15:00] <apachelogger> wouldn't what rick proposes need to be applied for everything?
[15:00] <apachelogger> i.e. without basic valdiation nothing gets out of proposed
[15:01] <apachelogger> if so then I'd consider that a bigger drag on velocity than one week of cherry pick blockage
[15:05]  * cjwatson starts the move of Kubuntu to universe in quantal, per discussion on kubuntu-devel@ and IRC.
[15:06] <apachelogger> \o/
[15:06] <jtechidna> :)
[15:06] <ScottK> :-(
[15:06] <apachelogger> I can be a master of the universe again
[15:06] <apachelogger> though I thought there was no conclusion on the discussion
[15:06] <cjwatson> ScottK: It might be worth looking into some kind of parallel MIR-lite process.  It wouldn't be very hard to e.g. maintain a list of the things that have been checked.
[15:06] <apachelogger> then again no one was really loking for a conclusion *Shrug*
[15:07] <ScottK> apachelogger: I think it was clear where the balance of opinion was.
[15:14] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[15:14] <cjwatson> Done.
[15:19] <dantti_laptop> apachelogger:  hey :) I'm doing some changes to add-printer wizard of print manager, what do you think about the following? (I removed the huge icon here)
[15:19] <dantti_laptop> http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/15/plasma-desktopBZ1944.png
[15:19] <Riddell> kubuntu-ninjas PPAs is actually quite wuick at building, it's the publishing which takes hours :(
[15:20] <apachelogger> Riddell: hours? :O
[15:20] <apachelogger> wtf
[15:20] <apachelogger> dantti_laptop: me likes
[15:20] <apachelogger> dantti_laptop: except I would put the ppdf file thigny at the bottom
[15:20] <Riddell> apachelogger: one or two hours
[15:20] <apachelogger> and add a filter label
[15:21] <dantti_laptop> hmm I didn't thought about putting it at the bottom.. let me try
[15:21]  * apachelogger always found it quite silly that in apparently no printer installer we ever had you were able to filter the lists
[15:21] <dantti_laptop> it filtered first but now I'm not sure it will work..
[15:21] <apachelogger> so you end up scrolling left until you find Foo and then Foo has 3000 drivers and you end up scrolling all to the end of the drivers pane
[15:21] <apachelogger> dantti_laptop: well, assuming it cannot autodetect the driver
[15:22] <apachelogger> so you go manually looking for it
[15:22] <apachelogger> which I reckon can often be the case as otherwise I fail to see the point of the lists ;)
[15:22] <dantti_laptop> yes, it's just a bit trick to search on trees
[15:23] <apachelogger> dantti_laptop: so what I would do is add *one* filter that filters the driver names
[15:23] <cjwatson> Riddell: PPA publishing is fairly dreadful.  There's work on "diskless archives" being considered at the moment to improve it.
[15:24] <cjwatson> Because it bites the Consumer Apps work for software-center.
[15:24] <apachelogger> so if I enter 9000 there, the left hand pane would only display brands that have a driver that matches 9000 and the right hand pane will only display the matching drivers per brand
[15:24] <dantti_laptop> apachelogger: I know its the search algorith that is trick.. since it's a tree we had a hard time when doing this for polkit kcm...
[15:24] <cjwatson> That said I believe there's been some emergency patching done of late to try to improve things.
[15:25] <apachelogger> dantti_laptop: simply traverse all child nodes?
[15:25] <Riddell> cjwatson: do you know who's incharge of the language pack infrastructure these days?
[15:25] <Riddell> dpm?
[15:25] <apachelogger> you'll get away with n*regexcmp
[15:27] <dantti_laptop> apachelogger: it's not that simple, since you can't hide the parent on the match..
[15:27] <apachelogger> huh?
[15:27] <cjwatson> Riddell: I'd start with him, at least.  Martin probably still has his fingers in bits of it, knowing him.
[15:27] <apachelogger> why that is silly
[15:27] <apachelogger> dantti_laptop: does it need to be a tree?
[15:27] <dantti_laptop> to hide a make you need to check all childs
[15:28] <apachelogger> dantti_laptop: you need to do that anyway
[15:28] <apachelogger> n is the amount of known drivers
[15:28] <apachelogger> you need to regex all known drivers
[15:28] <dantti_laptop> well you need to do it twice..
[15:28] <apachelogger> dantti_laptop: why?
[15:28] <maco> apachelogger: the KC election... there's only one spot open?
[15:28] <apachelogger> dantti_laptop: you go through all parents, and decend into their children, if no children matches the parent gets hidden
[15:29] <dantti_laptop> the algorithm will check each node, first on parent then on childs..
[15:29] <apachelogger> maco: no, dunno why it says so
[15:29] <maco> apachelogger: how many?
[15:29] <apachelogger> 3
[15:29] <maco> ok
[15:29] <dantti_laptop> on the parent you chekc the childs to see if it should be visible..
[15:29] <apachelogger> half the team gets elected once a year
[15:29] <maco> ok
[15:29] <apachelogger> dantti_laptop: ah you mean a predefiend algorithm?
[15:30] <Riddell> dpm: language packs?  I think we need to turn the language-pack-kde packages into simple meta packages depending on kde-l10n-xx and other bits, how do we do that?
[15:30] <dantti_laptop> apachelogger: the sortfilterModel...
[15:30] <dantti_laptop> apachelogger: http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/15/plasma-desktopLR1944.png
[15:30] <debfx> cjwatson: a few of the new KDE source packages haven't been demoted yet: audiocd-kio, kscd and libkcompactdisc (they show up on component-mismatch)
[15:30] <apachelogger> dantti_laptop: make your own filter model
[15:30] <cjwatson> debfx: Yeah, those were already listed for moving but I only initially processed the ones that changed as a direct result of telling component-mismatches to consider only Ubuntu
[15:31] <dantti_laptop> apachelogger: sure I need to , but I 'll need to manually do that, which is boring...
[15:31] <apachelogger> lol
[15:31] <apachelogger> dantti_laptop: it's like 20 sloc for the algorithm :P
[15:31] <apachelogger> unless you thread the filtering, which would be really fancy ^^
[15:32] <apachelogger> like if a parent has > thresh nodes you run the scan in a thraed ^^
[15:32] <cjwatson> debfx: Done now, thanks
[15:33] <Riddell> 16:33 < skaet_> Riddell,  will you follow up with the images you want for Kubuntu for 12.04.1 as well?
[15:33] <Riddell> what do we want?
[15:34] <maco> real food
[15:34] <apachelogger> what are the options?
[15:34] <maco> when do we want it?
[15:34]  * apachelogger wants pony images
[15:34] <maco> (we're chanting right?)
[15:35] <apachelogger> maco: you are not a fish, you are a person
[15:35] <dantti_laptop> apachelogger: I'll let that for later :P I'm also thinking on merging these two http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/15/plasma-desktopBL1944.png  http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/15/plasma-desktopLs1944.png
[15:35] <Riddell> apachelogger: presumably desktop, can we be bothered with alternate?  I'm wanting to say no to arm, active, dvd, powerpc, amd64+mac
[15:36] <Aptar> Just wanted to stop in and say I appreciate the hard work you guys put in to Kubuntu. 
[15:36] <dantti_laptop> apachelogger: removing the left icon and puting it next to the printers list, pretty much like what s-c-p does today..
[15:36] <Aptar> Thanks.
[15:36] <apachelogger> Riddell: I'd leave alternate, dvd seems worthwhile tho
[15:36] <Riddell> Aptar: :)
[15:36] <apachelogger> magazines like to put DVDs on their DVDs
[15:37] <apachelogger> which is a common source for users
[15:37] <Riddell> that's the DVD we just dropped for 12.10?
[15:37] <apachelogger> yes
[15:37] <apachelogger> with 12.10 we do put useful stuff on the desktop image tho :P
[15:44] <rigo> I have to leave this channel now. Thank you and good bye!
[15:49] <dpm> Riddell, I've no idea about how language pack dependencies work, I think pitti might be the best person to talk to
[16:37] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1013686] package libqt4-designer 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.1 failed to install/upgrade: short read on buffer... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013686 (by alfonex)
[16:40] <Riddell> final bits compiling (that are going to compile) for precise 4.8.90 now
[16:54] <shadeslayer> wheee .. moved to universe :D
[17:46] <debfx> I'll move 4.8.4 to the updates ppa once kde4libs finished building
[17:46] <Riddell> debfx: problems got sorted?
[17:46] <debfx> Riddell: yep, upstream reverted 2 commits
[17:46] <Riddell> great
[17:47] <MountainX> For KDE GUI app development using Python, how is Eclipse?
[17:47] <Riddell> MountainX: hmm no idea I'm afraid, never tried it
[17:48] <Riddell> I don't an IDE person myself, I use Kate or emacs
[17:48] <Riddell> s/don't/not/
[17:48] <kubotu> Riddell meant: "I not an IDE person myself, I use Kate or emacs"
[17:49] <Tm_T> MountainX: we have this thing called KDevelop
[17:49] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: not particularly useful when writing python code fwiw
[17:49] <MountainX> Yes, I am deciding between KDevelop and Eclipse... 
[17:49] <Tm_T> but meh, if you're writing python, I'm unsure what difference IDE would make
[17:49] <shadeslayer> Kate for python
[17:49] <shadeslayer> or vim
[17:49] <Riddell> I've also no idea how KDevelop is for Python
[17:50] <Riddell> Idle is the python Qt IDE, it's always scared me by having about 100 toolbar buttons in it's default UI
[17:50] <shadeslayer> :D
[17:50] <Riddell> Tm_T: same thing as in c++ surely
[17:50] <shadeslayer> oh btw
[17:50] <MountainX> I'm not a full time developer so I want to learn just one IDe. Eclipse is something I could use for many different projects, so I was hoping I might also use it for Python-KDE projects.
[17:50] <Riddell> tab completion, quick links to api etc, quick buttons for execution etc
[17:50] <shadeslayer> apparently there's a GSoC on improving KDE Accessibility this time
[17:51] <shadeslayer> so hopefully we will have better a11y in the coming releases
[17:51] <Tm_T> ...now if I could find a reasonable Kate-replacement that would work in a browser for example
[17:51] <Riddell> in a browser?
[17:51] <shadeslayer> there's going to be a standard library ( Atleast that's what I was told by the student doing the GSoC ) for apps to export a11y interfaces
[17:51] <Tm_T> Riddell: yeah, been testing if I can do my work just by having a browser
[17:52] <Riddell> Tm_T: you are google's dream
[17:52] <Tm_T> Riddell: well, now that you mentioned it... http://www.tm-travolta.net/shots/chrome-elinks.png
[17:52] <Tm_T> chrome can be used for browsing too ^^
[17:53] <Riddell> Tm_T: oh my
[17:53] <shadeslayer> @_@
[17:53] <shadeslayer> who in their right minds would use that
[17:53] <Tm_T> elinks?
[17:54] <shadeslayer> yes
[17:54] <Tm_T> why not, although I usually do use lynx
[17:54] <Tm_T> ...when I use TUI browser
[17:54] <Riddell> w3m is the best
[17:55] <shadeslayer> unlike apachelogger, I'm a sane person, hence I use full featured browsers :P
[17:55] <shadeslayer> not lynx ...
[17:55] <shadeslayer> not that I've got anything against people using lynkx
[17:55] <shadeslayer> *lynx
[17:56] <davmor2> Riddell: +1 w3m ftw
[17:56] <MountainX> Anyone know if KDevelop has code completion for Python?
[17:57] <shadeslayer> MountainX: I heavily doubt you'll find IDE's that do code completion for python
[17:57]  * Riddell never tried python in KDevelop
[17:57] <shadeslayer> I did search for it one time
[17:57] <shadeslayer> but gave up and started typing out stuff in kate
[17:57] <shadeslayer> and surprisingly the code worked :P
[17:57] <MountainX> Actually there are lots of them that do code completion for Python
[17:57] <shadeslayer> you only need to take care of spaces
[17:58] <shadeslayer> MountainX: not true code completion, kate only completes for stuff that you've already written in the file
[17:58] <shadeslayer> unlike C++, where you have proper parsers and what not
[17:59] <MountainX> I don't know what "true code completion" is, but I know that there are several Python IDEs that claim to offer code completion. I watched a video on it.
[17:59] <MountainX> And I used IPython which has really code tab completion.
[17:59] <MountainX> *really cool
[18:00] <Riddell> it would be entirely possible to have code completion in an IDE, python is very introspectable
[18:00] <Riddell> the IDE would just need to ask the library what classes and methods it has
[18:01] <Riddell> I did see a kdevelop dev trying to do code completion in javascript one time many years ago, not a pretty sight
[18:01] <MountainX> Being that I only dabble in coding, I don't want to learn a lot of different tools. But I do want to be able to write KDE GUI apps in Python. So I'm looking for the one best IDE to learn.
[18:02]  * shadeslayer usually has python docs + kate
[18:02] <shadeslayer> that's all
[18:02] <Riddell> shadeslayer++
[18:03] <shadeslayer> that's how I'm learning erlang as well :P
[18:03] <Riddell> what's erlang?
[18:03] <MountainX> @shadeslayer. I don't understand what you are saying. I've seen several Python IDEs that offer code completion, including the big well-known names including PyDev plugin for Eclipse
[18:04] <shadeslayer> MountainX: right, and I'm saying you *don't* need a python IDE
[18:04] <shadeslayer> Riddell: highly concurrent programming language used by Telco's for handling GSM Calls and stuff
[18:04] <shadeslayer> used in other stuff as well
[18:05] <shadeslayer> but it was developed by Ericsson primarily for GSM 
[18:05] <MountainX> I don't need it as long as I want to use just IPython, but I find an IDE useful for my style of work.
[18:05] <shadeslayer> MountainX: you're coming from a C/C++ background right? :P
[18:06] <MountainX> I knew C/C++ around 20 years ago. I consider myself as starting from almost nothing now. Just learning Python.
[18:06] <shadeslayer> MountainX: ok, trust me, you really don't need a IDE :P
[18:07] <shadeslayer> in python all you need are docs and a text editor
[18:07] <shadeslayer> I had a *very* hard time starting with python because I was so used to IDE's
[18:07] <MountainX> I want a forms designer for sure. And once I have that, I might as well have the other stuff an IDE offers.
[18:08] <shadeslayer> ah, a ui form designer, there's a separate app for that
[18:08] <shadeslayer> QtDesigner or sth
[18:08] <shadeslayer> so no need for a entire IDE :)
[18:09] <MountainX> why don't you like IDEs?
[18:10] <MountainX> stepping through code with a debugger is really helpful. IDEs make that easy. I'm not sure how to do that with just Kate.
[18:10] <shadeslayer> MountainX: I use QtCreator extensively with C++
[18:10] <shadeslayer> so it's not that I don't like IDE's :D
[18:11] <shadeslayer> but IDE's don't make sense with python, because python is .... different
[18:11] <MountainX> Python in interpreted. But an IDE is just as useful in Python as it is in C++
[18:11] <MountainX> especially with a forms designer
[18:12] <MountainX> BTW, here is a good list of Python IDEs: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/81584/what-ide-to-use-for-python
[18:13]  * shadeslayer still disagrees with using IDE's for python, because they just slow people down when programming in python
[18:14] <shadeslayer> also, top answer is vim, which is what I already suggested at the beginning of the discussion
[18:14] <MountainX> Integrated Python debugging (to name one example) doesn't "just slow people down".
[18:15] <shadeslayer> dunno, I usually use pydb and ! in vim
[18:15] <MountainX> I'm not willing to invest the time to learn vim (or emacs) because I'm not a full time developer. I want a solution that is easy to pick back up when I haven't touched it after a 2 or 3 month break.
[18:15] <MountainX> IDEs are good for reminding you what to do
[18:17] <MountainX> And Eclipse plus the PyDev plugin is the #2 recommendation from that stackoverflow thread, and that's what I came here asking about. I want to know if it is nearly as suitable as KDevelop for Python KDE dev work.
[18:18] <MountainX> If Eclipse plus the PyDev plugin is *almost* as good as KDevelop for Python work, I'll use it because I can also use Eclipse for Java and Android and some other things I want to dabble in.
[18:20] <shadeslayer> I've never used Eclipse, so you'll have to experiment on your own there :)
[18:20] <shadeslayer> Pretty sure it won't be able to handle ui forms
[18:21] <MountainX> OK. I'll check that and see what the options are for UI forms. Thanks.
[18:21] <shadeslayer> QtDesigner
[18:22] <shadeslayer> and iirc KDE has something for ui files as well
[18:22] <shadeslayer> don't use it, so don't remember the name tbh :P
[18:23] <MountainX> I just found this: http://popdevelop.com/2010/04/setting-up-ide-and-creating-a-cross-platform-qt-python-gui-application/
[18:27] <shadeslayer> MountainX: I'm also not sure about using PyQt4, I personally favor PySide :P
[18:27] <MountainX> true, I like PySide better too.
[18:27] <shadeslayer> primarily because it had better support for QML and to a lesser extent, their site design
[18:29] <MountainX> One reason I liked PySide because there aren't two different language versions (so simpler for me) and the one version uses the newer slots and signals standard.
[18:29] <shadeslayer> ah cool
[18:32] <MountainX> OK, based on your feedback, maybe I'll just start with separate tools until I find an IDE I like. I can use IPython, Qt Designer, PySide, Kate, git, etc. But I'll have to figure out a good solution for code refactoring and integrated debugging...
[18:35] <shadeslayer> using Unix as a IDE ;)
[18:36] <MountainX> yeah, true. Why not?
[18:49] <MountainX> Where can I download Qt Designer?
[18:49] <jtechidna> apt-get install designer-qt4
[18:50] <MountainX> duh! Thanks. Google was misleading me.
[18:50] <jtechidna> er, that's the wrong name
[18:50] <jtechidna> qt4-designer ;-)
[18:50] <MountainX> I'll find it with apt-cache search
[21:49] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: actually I used w3m recently