/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/15/#lubuntu.txt

meethow do edit the icons in the top right corner in 12.04?00:50
Adam_hi all!01:47
future28Hey guys, could anyone here help me out regarding peppermint? The peppermint channel is dead. I'm looking to put java on so I can write some programs and run them from the command line02:32
optikHey all I keep trying to install lubuntu on my acer aspire one and it just freezes at the lubuntu logo with the dots, any ideas?04:28
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BlueMaximaHi, is there an easy way to modify the lubuntu menu (with the application shortcuts)?09:24
BlueMaximaI've tried using alacarte but it either crashes on me or does nothing when I try to create new items09:26
bioterrorall the stuff is read from .desktop files under /usr/share/applications/09:28
bioterrorsomeone can correct me if I am wrong09:28
BlueMaximaI was hoping for something a little more user-friendly than editing text files09:30
BlueMaximaNevermind, I found LXMED on Sourceforge and that seems to work, thanks anyway!09:39
reflexrgis lxde okay with dealing with color management if you use lprof?11:19
sb1980hi11:39
sb1980i've got a problem: whenever i select text in gedit, my window manager crashes.11:41
sb1980anyone has an idea?11:41
Debolaz[Lo]Does lubuntu support vertical panels? I know it does in theory, theres a configuration option for it, but everything just gets messed up if you select it, so is there a proper way of doing it?11:56
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leszekhi15:15
pmatulishi15:41
faustichttp://clip2net.com/s/22hmm16:02
faustichttp://clip2net.com/s/22hmm16:02
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LManyou idoits17:48
LManwhy is it every new release of lubuntu i have to do even more configuring after the intial install17:48
LManyu guys even have virtually broken printing and or adding printers in lubuntu17:49
LMani always have to track down the right driver17:49
LManfor god sake you didn't even install hp-lip as default17:49
LManjust getting worse17:49
LManthe volume indicator doesn't pop up any volume settings without additional installs17:50
leszekLMan: please use a proper language here17:50
LManproper language17:50
LManyou see any swear words?17:50
leszekits a community project and everyone is trying his best17:50
leszek[19:48] <LMan> you idoits17:50
LManthe community is making it more broken with every release17:50
leszekthis is not very friendly17:50
LManthats a description17:50
leszekLMan: this is btw. a support channel. So if you have a problem ask here17:51
LManwhy is it printing is virtuallyl brokent without installing extra packages that should be installed by default17:51
valdur55LMan, do you mean cups ?17:51
LManso many people add printer and if finds some driver that doesn't work, usually it doesn't even find a fake proper driver it tries to install a text only driver17:52
LManhow in the world did hp-lip not make it into the default install17:52
LManhonestly17:52
leszekLMan: it takes too much space17:52
bioterrorand not all people have hp printers17:52
LMani have had to do this time and time again for the many many machines i install lubuntu on17:52
LManwell over 100 now17:52
bioterrorLMan, I assume you get paid for that then17:52
leszekLMan: then honestly speaking you are an idiot17:52
LMani didn't need to go look for printer solution before but in the past couple releases the default install has become almost useless particularly in the printer area17:53
leszekyou could just create one installation and clone it17:53
LManand how is it we can get a fully working volume control that doesn't need extra packages17:53
LManyou can't even change what the volume control is controlling... ex.  pcm   over master17:53
LManridiculous17:53
leszekthere is a full working volume control built in17:53
leszekalsamixer17:54
LMango to volume and settings17:54
LManit doesn't work unless you install xterm or something else like gnome alsa17:54
LManalso you can't switch what the volume control controls17:54
leszekLMan: this is a plugin built in lxpanel. If you want to have it upgraded please consider requesting or helping the upstream project17:54
LManlet a machine want to use pcm as it control and the volume indicator becomes useless17:54
LManno reason to upgrade17:55
LMansimple use volwheel instead17:55
LManget rid of the horendous volume control and replace with volwheel17:55
LManpretty simple17:55
LManthis volume as been horrible from the begging17:55
bioterrornothing wrong with the alsa and alsamixer17:55
bioterrorworks like a dream17:56
LMansimplicity yea right, can't even get a consistant easy to use volume indicator17:56
LManbioterror17:56
leszekLMan: I don't know volwheel and it is not even packaged in ubuntu17:56
LManswitch your volume control to control pcm17:56
leszekso even if we want it, we need a maintainer to package it17:56
LManlots of old computer want to use pcm over master17:56
LManin the last two releases17:57
LMani'm doing more and more post install     "fixes"17:57
LManat least in the last release adding printers actually worked17:57
leszekLMan: then just simply use another distribution which you think fits better for you17:58
LManno17:58
LMani want this one to be better17:58
leszekLMan: you simply don't have any experience in creating a distribution like Lubuntu17:58
leszekIts not so easy as saying use this and that17:58
leszekjust like your example of volwheel17:59
LManleszek first you don't know me so you don't have the privledge of saying what i do and don't know17:59
LManwhat i do know is this distro used to be better then its currently getting17:59
leszekmany of us never heard of it and it is not packaged in ubuntu, so we can't use it. Its that damn simple17:59
LManin otherwords its going backwards17:59
LManleszek watch your language17:59
LMan???? many of us never heard of it and it is not packaged in ubuntu18:00
LManwhat does that mean18:00
leszeknothing is going backwards its just bullshit that you are talking. Remember volume control never changed. Remember network support in pcmanfm 0.5 ? No because it never was there. So don't talk shit18:00
LManyea ok18:00
LManswitch you volume control to use something else like pcm18:00
LManopen the volume settings18:01
LMancan't can ya18:01
leszekprinter support did not change except for newer cups and better drivers18:01
LManand if you can its because you installed and extra pacakge18:01
LManadd a printer after a default install18:01
LMandoesn't work does it18:01
leszekit does18:01
LMannow cuz you have to add more stuff18:01
bioterrorvolwheel was horrible looking18:01
LManthese are basic functions that should be tackled in every release18:01
bioterrorI decided to go with volumeicon instead18:01
LManvolweel is not horrible looking better do a new search18:01
LManvolwheel is much lither then volumeicon18:02
LManhttp://oliwer.net/b/volwheel.html18:02
LManand the mixer works, it also lets you set what the volume indicator controls18:02
bioterrorhttp://softwarebakery.com/maato/volumeicon.html18:02
LManboy that nice18:02
LManya i know bioterror18:03
LManbut it uses 2 - 3 times the ram18:03
LMan15 megs for volume the last i remember18:03
LManvolwheel uses 1.2 megs18:03
bioterrorluckily I have money to buy more RAM then if I dont like the one that comes with the lubuntu18:03
LManyea that a solution18:03
LMani have cash so i don't have to think of a good solution18:04
LMansheesh18:04
LMantypical18:04
LMandon't address problems just ignore them and belittle those who bring them up18:04
LManyou should run for office18:05
bioterroris there a conversation for applications for 12.10?18:06
bioterroryou could lman join the conversations and bring your points out18:06
LMani m doing that now18:06
bioterrorno you're not18:06
LManand most respond the same18:06
LManignore problems18:06
bioterroryou take part to the discussions on the mailing list18:06
bioterrorthat's where the magic happens18:07
LManyea right18:07
bioterrorbut people expects you to share facts too18:07
LManbrought up suggestions and issues before and everyone acts as if there isn't any18:07
LManthe printing is a major major issue18:08
LManvolume control is major issue18:08
LManshy18:08
LManwhy18:08
LManthese are relatively everyday functions that people expect to work18:08
LManif you can't get a decent volume control how good of a impression is that going to leave18:08
bioterrorsome people doesnt even get the login screen :(18:10
bioterrorbut we will gladly see your emails on the discussions about programs and settings for the 12.1018:11
LManhonestly though18:13
LManhow can volume be over look as not the big of deal18:13
LMantoo upset to speak right lol but how can volume be over looked?18:17
LManthe L might not stand for lxde but for lazy distro18:18
rich1whats wrong with volume in 12.10?18:18
LMango to volume settings18:18
LMandoesn't work does it18:19
rich1i'm running 12.0418:19
LManwithout installing some extra package like xterm or gnome alsa18:19
LManalso switch the volume control to control pcm instead of master18:19
LMancan't do it can ya18:19
rich1i'm running 12.0418:19
LManand lots of old computer want to use pcm instead of master18:19
LManyea ok you running 12.0418:19
LManyour point?18:20
rich1are you running 12.10?18:20
LManyes18:22
LMan12.0418:24
blackgatocatnegrHi, is lubuntu 10.04 still suported?18:26
kanliotnope18:26
kanliotactually i brought up the mixer in work items/ blueprints  i guess people like alsamixer18:27
LManno, in that version, printing worked without hassle, we've decided to move on and make it a pain, more productive that way18:27
blackgatocatnegrSo what is going to be lubuntu next LTS version?18:28
blackgatocatnegror whatever you can legaly call them18:28
leszekblackgatocatnegr: there never was something like that and I don't think there will be in near future18:30
blackgatocatnegrso lubuntu 10.04 suport is dropped, what will they use to give suport to older hardware?18:31
leszekblackgatocatnegr: I don't think there will be a replacment18:35
blackgatocatnegr-_-18:35
smilebye! :)18:35
LManso can anyone explaine why hp-lip is not longer included by default?18:37
LManwhy is it printers are such a pain now18:37
LManhp, the most widely support linux printer in existence,,, ya let now include the hp-lip library for printers,,,, that makes a whole lot of sense18:38
LMannow=not18:39
LMansorry start messing up letters when i'm furious over stupid decisions18:39
LManand who needs volume control anyway,,, i can always open up a terminal and type alsamixer and fumble around,,, because that is so much simpler than a volume indicator with a working volume settings and the ability to determine what the volume control controls18:42
LManhonestly18:42
LManterrible decision making lately18:42
LManif there is a new project leader then you need another one18:42
leszekLMan: you are free to contribute in decision making18:43
LMancontributing would actually mean that someone listens18:43
leszekbut in fact your comments aren't very helpful so nobody listens18:43
LManthese problems have been brought up by mean many times in the lubuntu forums, mailing list and in here18:43
LManwith no change18:43
leszekperhaps it could not be changed18:44
LManso you have determined that printing and volume controls aren't helpful18:44
leszeklets see hplip. Its simply too big to fit on a cd18:44
LManthats why people are hesitant to contribute18:44
LManthen get rid of something like mtpaint18:44
LManwhich is useless18:44
leszekthen the volume indication replacement was discussed but not a suitable software was found before freeze18:44
LManand make it fit18:44
LManit was there before18:44
LManthey made it fit before18:44
LManihave18:45
leszekLMan: before we had much lesser features18:45
LManvolwheel is super lightweight and actually works with features18:45
leszekvolwheel is not in the repos for gods sake18:45
LMantaking away easy printer setup is far less features18:45
LManthan anything that may have been added18:45
LManthen put it in the repose18:46
LManthe volume control in lubuntu is a joke18:46
LManand a bad joke at that18:46
leszekLMan: putting volwheel in the repos needs a maintainer which does it18:46
leszekLMan: if you want to do this job then please do18:46
LManits called send an email to the creator18:46
LMantough18:46
LManreal tough18:46
leszekLMan: than do it18:47
LManhey we are the lubuntu team we would like to use volwheel in our distro can you please create a package and add it to the repos18:47
LManreal tough email18:47
leszekLMan: do you know how to get a package into the ubuntu repos ?18:48
leszekI am not getting the impression you know18:48
LManya, email the creator18:48
LManif he doesn't do it then take it upon yourself18:48
LManmost likely though the would be flattered to have their software as part of a default install18:49
leszekLMan: its not that easy18:49
leszekand all in all there was no clear voting upon the volume manager for 12.0418:49
LManwell configuring printers now and fixing the volume control fiasco is not that easy either and or should be any type of a post install hassle18:49
leszekso nothing has changed18:49
LManthen the voters are not that bright18:49
LManlubuntu and old computer are quite literally my business18:50
LManthat i do very well in18:50
LManbut i've seen lubuntu become less and less friendly18:50
LManrequiring more and more post install configuring18:50
leszekit all depends on what you do. For me Lubuntu 12.04 works fine18:51
LManget rid of penguin games, and make printing easy again18:51
leszekand what is the printer configuration problem in details? Is it only the missing hplip or more ?18:51
LMandon't give me this it can't fit on a cd,,,, they made it fit before,,, get rid of some junk so printing and volume is easy to work with18:52
LManadd any printer to lubuntu18:52
LManand i guarantee you that it won't work without specific installs or configuring18:52
LManit used to work fine18:52
leszekLMan: its not a decision a single person (like you) is doing when it comes to software which should be shipped18:52
leszekits a community decision18:52
LManbut now they essentially broke it for the average user18:52
LManthen the commuity doesn't know what they are doing18:53
leszekLMan: I don't get it18:53
valdur55LMan, you can use remaster to make your lubuntu remix18:53
LManthats not the point18:53
LManthe point is it works out of the box18:53
LManwhat ever happened to this idea18:53
LManlet a novice user not be able to get their printer working and watch how fast lubuntu gets replaced18:54
LMansame for a sensible working volume control18:54
LManbut penguin games is must18:55
LMansheesh18:55
valdur55LMan, volume control is Lxde issue, not Lubuntu's18:55
leszekLMan: if you don't like the lubuntu way and your topics don't come through then please create your own distro or remix or use another distribution18:56
LManyea and lubuntu jobs should be about tackling issues with lxde to set their distro apart18:56
LManand or fix what they now doesn't work well18:56
leszekLMan: Lubuntu is a community project live with it18:56
LManremix is not the answser18:56
LMani would like lubuntu to get back to a fully working distro out of the box18:56
LManprinting for example should probably be at the top of the must work list18:56
leszekLMan: printing is working18:57
LManthe fact that it needs to be brought up as very important feature is ridiculous18:57
LManyea, once you add extra stuff18:57
LMando a fresh install and try it18:57
LManit will find some kind of driver18:57
LManbut it won't work18:57
LMango ahead try it18:57
LMani only install lubuntu on about 10 machine a week18:58
LManso what do i know18:58
valdur55LMan, does your printer work in ubuntu ?18:59
LManregular ubuntu manage to squeeze most of the drivers like hp-lip onto their cd19:00
LManbut some how lubuntu is unable to19:00
LMango figure19:00
TheLordOfTimeLMan:  you can still  *get* those drivers if you want19:01
TheLordOfTimebetween you and I...19:01
LManyes i know that19:01
LManthat not the point19:01
TheLordOfTimei customize every installation disk i use :P19:01
LManlets say i'm a novie i download lubuntu19:01
LMani install it19:01
LMani go to printer and add printer it finds something but doesn't work19:01
LMani think it should because it claims it found it and a driver19:02
LManwhich don't work19:02
LManso now i as a novice user have a terrible impression of lubuntu19:02
LManbecause something relatively common just dosnt' work19:02
LManlike printing.....19:02
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LMancustomization should be just that custom19:03
LMannot fix it after the install so it works right19:03
LManthats not customization19:03
LManand why is it the lubuntu software center is terrible, good grief linux mint lxde software center destroys lubuntu's19:07
LManadd to basket then go to the basket and install19:07
LManyea that intuitive instead of just a button that says install19:08
LManand lets not get into sharing a folder19:10
LMangood luck with that with a default install19:10
LManbut penguin games and mtpaint is a must19:12
LMangood grief19:12
LManlubuntu has reached the lazy point of, here is an ubuntu base that we threw lxde on19:14
LManeveryting else is up to you,   yea thats approach is going to make a lot a great first impressions19:14
leszekLMan: this is a support channel please leave if you don't have a support question or discuss your stuff in #lubuntu-offtopic19:15
LManright , don't address anything, just pass the buck19:17
LManhow are things not working correctly not a support issue?19:18
leszekI asked you to give details and you are only just complaining over and over and over again the same stuff without giving any details19:20
leszekand without a clear support question btw.19:20
LMani gave detail and detail of what the issues are19:20
LManadding printers doesn't really work anymore because the necessary libraries are no longer installed by default as they once were19:20
LMandetailed enough>?19:20
LManvolume settings doesn't work19:21
LManwhy xterm or gnome alsa not installed by default19:21
leszekLMan: these are not support questions19:21
LManalso volume control does not allow you to configure it to control what you want19:21
LManyes they are19:21
LManthese are things that don't work19:21
leszekno, they are bug reports19:21
LMantthey are nto bugs19:21
leszekthey aren't ?19:21
LManthey are problems that occur because of poor decisions19:22
LMannot including most of the printing libraries and or drivers is just a poor decision19:22
leszekI have had enough. I really hope an op will kick out of this, otherwise I will go19:22
LMango then19:22
LMancuz your no help anyway, you want to defend without addressing the issues19:23
LManthese issues are very common and should not be occuring with any distro particularly not with one that is tied to ubuntu (the easy linux)19:23
Myrttiso what was the actual support question here?19:32
Myrttiprinting not working?19:32
Myrttiwhat printer?19:33
MyrttiHP, Samsung, something else?19:33
LManprinting doesn't work out of the box on any printer without additional installations19:33
LManit used to add printers without issue19:33
LMannow you need to add libraries and or drivers because they removed them from the distro , now making it a pain to add a simple printer19:34
LManeven an hp printer needs extra stuff installed19:34
Myrttiwhich version of lubuntu, latest 12.04? which version of cups? which kernel?19:34
Myrttiwhich printer?19:34
LManthe most widely supported linux printer needs extra libraries because they aren't important enough to include be default19:34
LManno a very good decision19:34
Myrttiif libraries or drivers have been removed, it's not necessarily lubuntu's decision19:34
LMando a fresh install of lubuntu then add any printer you want19:34
LManit will find something but it won't work19:34
Myrttiwe use the same basic stuff under the bonnet as Ubuntu does19:34
LMani put lubuntu on about 10 machines aweak19:35
LManweek19:35
Myrttiare you done ranting or are you willing to answer my questions?19:35
LMandoesn't matter what printer they all need something19:35
LManlubuntu used to have hp-lip installed by default for easy printer setup19:35
LManalso a couple other drivers and libraries were enabled by default to handle printers19:35
MyrttiLMan: could you please answer my questions?19:35
LMannow its removed, to save space for mtpaint and penguin games apparently19:36
LManwhat questi9on?19:36
Myrttibecause many people have had enough of your ranting, if you can't answer my questions, I can't help you and I'd like to ask you to stop this tirade so others can benefit from the channel19:36
LManoh you took a poll?19:36
LManhow many are tired of hearing the shortcomings of lubuntu lately19:37
Myrtti1) what printer, what manufacturer, model 2) which version of lubuntu? 3) which version of kernel 4) which version of cups19:37
LMani got the printer working19:37
LMani always do19:37
LManthe point is the new user19:37
LMannot me or u19:37
LManthe new guy19:37
LManwho doesn't know what to do19:37
Myrttioh so this isn't a support question at all19:37
Myrttithanks19:37
LManhe is not keeping lubuntu if he can't get his printer working with relative ease19:38
LMansupport question, ha, i've asked support question in here before with no answer for hours19:38
LManonly get a response when you start complaining19:38
Myrttiyour problems aren't strictly speaking support issues. Venting about the subject here will yield you no positive outcome - at 'best' you will antagonize a lot of helpers and developers19:39
LManyour right, i can handle the shortcoming of lubuntu19:39
LManmy concern is the people that i setup with it or buy pc with it already installed19:40
LMannow if i install it then its fine19:40
Myrttithank you for your concern. Can we move on?19:40
Myrttithanks for helping others installing it19:40
LManbut if they need to reinstall or tackle something on their own there should be simple things like volume control giving them a headache19:40
LManshould=shouldn't19:40
LManno we can't move on19:40
LManmoving on means ignoring issues19:40
Myrttiwe've been listening and reading your concerns for hours now19:41
MyrttiI'm not ignoring them19:41
MyrttiI don't think anyone is ignoring them19:41
LManyup, and this is the third year complaining about the volume control19:41
Myrttithere just isn't anything that can be done on the subject on IRC19:41
LManso deaf ears is more like it19:41
LManlubuntu is actually typical line of thought, work really hard until you get the nod from shuttleworth, then take it easy19:42
Myrttialright, this is the final time I'm asking you to move on. We've heard your complaints, they're now in the channel logs19:43
Myrttiwhat exactly do you want us to do?19:43
LMani would like to not have to complain for years about one simple issue, mainly volume, the printer issue just popped up in this release, but the volume has always been terrrible19:44
LManif we know its lxde volume inidicator that is terrible then it should be replaced until it is better19:44
LMannot just welll...... thats what they give us soo.....19:44
Myrttiwhat exactly would you want us to do19:44
LManapparently its takes many voices to address and issue19:45
LMani bring the volume issue up a lot19:45
LManno one denys its shortcoming yet no one does anything about it19:45
Myrttiwhat exactly would you want us to do?19:45
bioterrorLMan, have you brought it up on the mailing lists19:45
bioterrorLMan, yes or no19:45
LManyes and get the same blah responses19:45
bioterrorand the answer was?19:46
LManhonestly volume is pretty important to work and alway work correctly and to be complete19:46
LManas of now the volume settings don;'t even work without and extra install19:46
LManand the suggested install of pavcontrol doesn't even work19:46
bioterroryeah, I have to install rxvt-unicode on every install I do19:46
LManso if you had someone that read the suggestion and went to install it , it wouldn't even work19:46
LManthats a terrible impression19:47
LManbioterror the point is its volume you shouldn't have to install jack kdfjsljfksdjfklsjk19:47
bioterrorI dont have to19:48
bioterrorworks without a problem on my t43, on dell d620, dell d63019:49
LMango to volume settings then19:49
LManunless you install something extra it doesn't work19:49
LMango ahead19:49
bioterrorand what other computer I've used, my acer m530019:49
LMantry it19:49
Myrttialright19:49
LManafter a fresh install   volume settings does not work on its own19:49
bioterrorreally?19:49
LManyes really19:49
LManxterm or gnome alsa or whatever is not installed by default19:50
bioterrorwould you like to make a bug raport about it on launchpad?19:50
bioterrorxterm is installed by default19:50
LManit tells you to install pavcontrol19:50
bioterrorit comes with the Xorg19:50
Myrttiremember to include "sudo lshw" and alsa bug tools output19:50
LManwhich isn't correct because that is expecting pulse audio19:50
LManits not a bug19:50
bioterrorpavucontrol is for the pulseaudio19:50
LManits a configuration issue19:50
bioterrorand last time I checked, lubuntu did not come with pulseaudio19:51
LManxterm should be installed by default so at least when you go to volume setting it will pop up alsamixer19:51
LManno kidding19:51
LManthats why the suggestion of pavcontrol is a dumb one19:51
Myrttihttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems19:51
LManits not a debug19:52
LManthere is not but when its simply distro configuration error19:52
Myrttiwell if it doesn't work on your hardware, it clearly is a bug19:52
LManits doesn't work on any hgardware out of the box19:52
MyrttiI've not had any problems with sound, bioterror hasn't had any problems with sound19:52
LManyou instal it on 10 machines a week?19:52
LMannot sound19:52
LManthe sound settings19:52
LManREAD!19:53
Myrttialright, I've really had enough now19:53
leszek:)19:53
LGuyreal tough to get around that19:55
bioterrorcongratulations19:55
bioterrorMyrtti, you won19:55
leszekLOL19:55
Myrttiwe've wasted a lot of time in discussing the subject with you19:55
Myrttiplease use the venues pointed to you by others19:56
Myrttias you previously have19:56
MyrttiLGuy: many new users don't dare to disturb an ongoing discussion, so we will never know how many questions were left unanswered.19:56
ebrui want to disable multiple destop20:32
ebruhow can i disable ?20:33
leszekebru: Lubuntu menu -> preferences -> openbox configuration manager. There click on Desktop and set number of desktops to 120:35
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CrazyGangsterhello ppl, any1 can open this http://www.zygotebody.com? All my browsers says WebGL not supported, how can fix this?23:23
tWEEZERanyone alive*?23:43
tWEEZERPLS?23:57

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