/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/15/#ubuntu-app-devel.txt

twobottuxauappdev: How can I create a new socket in /dev? <http://askubuntu.com/questions/151022/how-can-i-create-a-new-socket-in-dev>00:44
dpmhi all07:02
dholbachgood morning07:07
noodles775Morning dholbach07:08
dholbachhi noodles77507:08
twobottuxauappdev: Quickly App Development Tool <http://askubuntu.com/questions/151128/quickly-app-development-tool>07:28
twobottuxauappdev: How do I participate in the Ubuntu App Showdown? <http://askubuntu.com/questions/151148/how-do-i-participate-in-the-ubuntu-app-showdown>08:42
RobinJ1995I've started on a small aplication with Quickly, but can't find out how I add an image to a button in the Glade designer. I've created an image widget and assigned an image file to it, and assigned the image widget to the button, but it simply doesn't show up.08:47
dpmhi RobinJ1995, I think this is an issue with glade. Try the following:08:50
RobinJ1995quickly run? same08:50
dpm1. Save the image under your data/media directory08:50
RobinJ1995it is in there, i thought that was the problem at first08:51
dpmbear with me...08:51
RobinJ1995ok :p08:51
dpm2. When you're specifying the image path in glade, make sure to prepend ../media/ to the file name08:51
dpmthat's always worked for me08:51
dpmRobinJ1995, did that work?08:54
RobinJ1995../media/connect.png08:54
RobinJ1995didnt work08:54
dpmdoes 'quickly run' not load the image?08:55
dpm(it might seem obvious, but make sure you've saved the glade file before running 'quickly run')08:55
RobinJ1995nope08:56
dpmcan you push your code somewhere to have a look at it? If you've got a launchpad account, you can do bzr push lp:~your_launchpad_id/+junk/your_app and I can try to see if I spot what's going on08:57
RobinJ1995do i have to create a lauchpad project page for the app? or has quicly done that for me?08:59
RobinJ1995because i'd actually want to create a launchpad project page for it, but i have no control over what quickly does...09:00
dpmRobinJ1995, you'll generally have to create a project yourself. But for now, you can just create a throwaway branch with the command I mentioned above09:00
RobinJ1995bzr: ERROR: Permission denied09:01
RobinJ1995 Project '+tmp' does not exist.09:01
dpmRobinJ1995, can you please post the full command line? I've no idea which command you ran there09:01
RobinJ1995robin@RobinJ:~/Ubuntu One/Python/remote-control$ bzr push lp:~robinj/+tmp/remote-control09:02
RobinJ1995Working tree "/home/robin/Ubuntu One/Python/remote-control/" has uncommitted changes (See bzr status). Uncommitted changes will not be pushed.09:02
RobinJ1995bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "~robinj/+tmp/remote-control/": : Project '+tmp' does not exist.09:02
dpmRobinJ1995, please read again the command I mentioned above. It's +junk, not +tmp09:03
RobinJ1995oh, i thought that was a random thing it would create by itself09:03
RobinJ1995junk must be a default one then09:03
dpmno, sorry, I should have probably specified that09:03
RobinJ1995Created new branch.09:03
dpmyeah, +junk is a place in Launchpad where you can store temporary branches09:04
dpmit's quite handy09:04
RobinJ1995https://code.launchpad.net/~robinj/+junk/remote-control09:04
RobinJ1995indeed it is09:04
dpmcool, let me have a look...09:04
RobinJ1995one thing i really dislike about gtk; designign a gui is just as much hassle as writing the actual code09:05
dpm:)09:06
jokerdinoping.09:10
jokerdinoanyone?09:10
dpmanyone what?09:11
jokerdinouh this --> http://askubuntu.com/questions/151148/how-do-i-participate-in-the-ubuntu-app-showdown09:12
jokerdinoi got really confused after answering the question.09:12
RobinJ1995yeah it's not at all clear09:12
dpmjokerdino, let me see if I can answer it09:17
jokerdinothanks. let me know when you do that so I can delete my answer then.09:17
dpmRobinJ1995, actually, I think images are not appearing on buttons because of a global desktop setting. Have a look at the second answer on http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2188659/stock-icons-not-shown-on-buttons09:18
jokerdinois mr twobottux working alright here?09:18
dpmjokerdino, it wasn't a few days ago, but it seems it is now09:19
dpmat least I could see the two latest questions on the channel not long ago09:19
jokerdinoalright. that's good then.09:19
RobinJ1995dpm, changing that gconf key makes no difference at all. if i place the image in an image control it doesn't show up either09:19
dpmRobinJ1995, weird. I cannot make it load, either. I'm loading images in buttons in my app, but it's a button inside a toolbar, not a plain button. You might want to ask on AskUbuntu -> http://askubuntu.com/questions/ask?tags=application-development09:21
dpmThat said, the code you pushed was missing the image path in the image control in Glade, but even after putting it there, I could not load the image09:21
RobinJ1995:/09:22
RobinJ1995in other words; glade is beta?09:22
RobinJ1995*glade designer09:22
RobinJ1995anyway, where do i put the image path in which file?09:23
dpmRobinJ1995, here: http://ubuntuone.com/1p7rEvQP0QtYOkT5BDfoMQ09:26
dpmjokerdino, your answer looks good to me, but do you mind if I edit it a bit?09:26
RobinJ1995yeah i know but it is there09:26
dpmyes, that's what I said ^^, I was just pointing out that it wasn't in the code you pushed on +junk, but even after adding it, it didn't make a difference.09:27
dpmI'd recommend asking on askubuntu, then, I cannot help further, sorry :/09:27
RobinJ1995okù09:28
RobinJ1995thanks anyway09:28
jokerdinodpm: i don't mind. feel free.09:28
jokerdinodpm, thanks for the edit. makes it very clear.09:35
dpmjokerdino, no worries. I'll add the question to the FAQ09:37
jokerdinothanks! that should help others with the same question.09:38
dpmso if you guys have got any other questions related to the contest not covered by the rules or in the faq, feel free to ask them on askubuntu and then I'll add the relevant ones to the faq09:42
dpmI'm creating an ubuntuappshowdown tag too09:42
dpmhttp://askubuntu.com/tags/ubuntuappshowdown09:44
jokerdinoah, markdown doesn't work on tag excerpts.. :/09:49
RobinJ1995dpm; are we only allowed to start our project on the 18th? as i'll miss out for a few days because of my exams, during the foreseen 3 weeks09:52
RobinJ1995and i'll miss out on the last week entirely as i'm going to london09:52
dpmRobinJ1995, feel free to start it already09:52
RobinJ1995just done so09:52
RobinJ1995:p09:52
dpmcool :)09:53
RobinJ1995only i'm fairly new to python and glade09:53
RobinJ1995only experimented with it a bit09:53
RobinJ1995oh cool i've unintentionally made a linux "virus" :')09:56
RobinJ1995`quickly run` --> Compiz has closed unexpectedly09:57
RobinJ1995the result of making the width request 3500 in stead of 350... little typo09:57
RobinJ1995-.- is quickly supposed to add menu items to my application which i dont want there?10:06
RobinJ1995guys? can anyone tell me why the handler doesn't work? it complains that it isn't there, but it is... http://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads5/4fdb0bc43b8e0/4fdb0bc41f7ae-Screenshot_from_2012-06-15_12%3A17%3A16.png10:18
RobinJ1995i've tried adding the def at the bottom of the file first, but the same thing happened10:18
RobinJ1995oh wait... python interprets indents10:19
RobinJ1995nope still no succes10:19
RobinJ1995nvm, i got it working :)10:20
dpmok, glad you managed :)10:33
twobottuxauappdev: Can I use old code by myself to build on for my entry in the Ubuntu App Showdown contest? <http://askubuntu.com/questions/151196/can-i-use-old-code-by-myself-to-build-on-for-my-entry-in-the-ubuntu-app-showdown> || Is Quickly a Python-only development tool? <http://askubuntu.com/questions/151128/is-quickly-a-python-only-development-tool>10:36
beemasterHello, ubuntu developers! Does anyone know if I can use Qt instead of GTK in canonical 3-week contest? It's a bit strange that developers are forced to use GTK and in the same time Qt Software is a sponsor...11:08
pavolzetorAs far as I know, you cannot11:08
pavolzetorsince Quickly is GTK11:08
pavolzetorUbuntu is GTK11:08
pavolzetorThere is a Qt template for Quickly in the works, it should be in 12.10 and hopefully backported to 12.04 as soon as it's ready11:10
pavolzetor"There is a Qt template for Quickly in the works, it should be in 12.10 and hopefully backported to 12.04 as soon as it's ready"11:10
pavolzetormhall11:10
beemasterReally, this is really weird. I think that Qt is very natural and convenient way of writing apps for Ubuntu. And I can't use it to participate in the contest? Qt Software is a sponsor? Are you kidding me? Where is the logic???11:14
pavolzetorQT does not fit11:15
pavolzetorit looks awkward11:15
pavolzetoralso ubuntu does not contain QT in default installation (ubuntu Q forwards)11:16
pavolzetorhmm, or it might11:16
pavolzetorsorry11:16
beemasterit does11:16
pavolzetorthere is qt in U!11:16
pavolzetorU111:16
pavolzetorActually I do not understand what is goal of this content too :)11:16
pavolzetorbut cross fingers for devs to make beautiful apps, I am curious about quality11:17
dpmhi beemaster, right now there is only one official Ubuntu application template in Quickly, and it is based on Python and GTK. We cannot recommend the Qt template until it's been finished and it's stable. See also askubuntu.com/questions/151128/is-quickly-a-python-only-development-tool/11:17
beemasterLet people use tools they like, then there will be more apps11:17
pavolzetorif you look at some apps developed for years, and they still have annoying bugs :)11:17
dpmwe're actually discussing relaxing the rules, so stay tuned for updates11:18
dpmbut until further notice, these are the rules11:18
dpmhttp://developer.ubuntu.com/showdown/rules/11:18
dpmand the sponsors do not dictate the rules, they have just kindly supported us with some awesome prizes11:19
pavolzetorwhat are quality requirements?11:21
beemasterso why you dictate so stupid rules? :)11:21
beemasterapp does not need quickly to be awesome11:21
pavolzetorthey want to attract new people, I assume11:21
pavolzetorIt is quite hard to learn PPA, Gtk, and all stuff for newbie in few weeks11:22
pavolzetorso quickly helps there11:22
pavolzetorbut not me :D11:22
beemasterOk, I don't mind others to use it, but I want to use Qt!11:23
pavolzetorQT does not find in ubuntu11:23
pavolzetorit looks like second class citizen11:23
pavolzetorI do not like that11:23
pavolzetorbut I am user11:23
pavolzetore.g. I use clutter with Gtk and I am also ruled out, so do not get mad, it is impossible to create something dynamic in gtk11:24
pavolzetorso I can understand that you want QT or something else11:24
dpmbeemaster, we've put quite a lot of thought in the contest and to define the rules. That is simply your opinion. The goals of the contest are clearly stated on http://developer.ubuntu.com/showdown/rules/11:24
dpmpavolzetor, why do you think you're ruled out from the contest by using Clutter? That shouldn't be an impediment to participate11:25
pavolzetorI started also earlier with developement11:26
pavolzetorso never mind11:26
pavolzetorYou said you need to use Gtk11:26
pavolzetoror someone in comments on omgubunut i think11:27
beemasterQt Quick is the future, it would be great if you attract people to it instead of some old stuff.... yes, this is my opinion. Thank you anyways for clarifying the rules!11:27
dpmbeemaster, if you'd like to contribute to that goal, I'd recommend helping out with the Qt template in Quickly :)11:28
pavolzetorbeemaster: I do not think so11:28
pavolzetornative libs are always better, it is more work, but it looks better11:29
dpmpavolzetor, ah, gotcha. Have you not considered creating a new app?11:30
pavolzetorprobsably not11:30
pavolzetorI do not have idea11:30
dpmoh, wait, I can help with that...11:30
pavolzetorand I want to finish first one ;)11:30
pavolzetorI am rewriting framework, so it will use AWS11:30
pavolzetorfor sync11:30
dpmpavolzetor, check this out in any case, lots of app ideas up for grabs :) http://www.reddit.com/r/UbuntuAppShowdown11:31
pavolzetorgoing to have look11:31
pavolzetorhttp://www.reddit.com/r/ubuntuappshowdown/comments/v1zyu/app_idea_photo_collage_maker/11:33
pavolzetorwww.reddit.com/r/ubuntuappshowdown/comments/v345u/app_idea_pretty_music_player/11:33
pavolzetorthese two are only I like for mass market11:33
pavolzetorI think they should have higher priority11:34
pavolzetormainly photo collage maker11:34
pavolzetornormal users will not vote on reddit ;)11:34
dpmpavolzetor, if you've got any suggestions for any better voting and idea submission platform as lightweight to manage as reddit, I'm all ears :)11:35
pavolzetorAre there any plans for tight twitter/facebook integration into platform in ubuntu?11:35
dpmGwibber does that already11:35
dpmand has an api you can use for your apps11:36
pavolzetordpm: I think, the best would be look at other platforms what are top apps (not crappy ones) and just make list11:36
pavolzetorbasic users do not care/vote11:36
pavolzetorso you need smart people to make decision11:36
pavolzetorI am going to look at gwibber api11:37
dpmright, but we want to have community participation, not just dictate ideas. This is about app ideas, not decisions11:37
dpmthe app ideas are there just to help participants with inspiration11:38
pavolzetordpm: what about splitting it 50/5011:38
pavolzetorcommunity/canonical11:38
dpmsplitting what?11:39
pavolzetordpm: I had look at gwibber11:39
pavolzetorlike there will be some canonical(business people) ideas11:39
pavolzetorand some comunnity11:39
dpmthere is no such separation11:40
pavolzetorcommunity is nice example of bicycle shed problem11:40
dpmeveryone can submit ideas11:40
dpmand canonical employees are also part of the community11:40
dpmin fact, they can participate in the contest11:40
dpmas long as they don't do it as part of their work11:40
pavolzetorI see, that is okay11:40
pavolzetorbut I wanted to allude11:40
dpmso we've just been submitting ideas organically, really11:41
pavolzetorthat you need to have some great people who make decisions, community will argue forever11:41
dpmI agree, but my point is that this is not about decisions, this is an initiative to give app authors ideas11:41
pavolzetorokay :)11:41
dpmthe best app will not be picked up from there11:41
pavolzetorgotcha11:41
pavolzetorso it is kinda brainstorming11:42
dpmthe best app will be something real that someone creates and submits :)11:42
dpmexactly :)11:42
pavolzetorto gwibber point11:42
pavolzetorI looked at API11:42
dpmok, gwibber11:42
dpmcaveat:11:42
pavolzetorwhat I had in mind11:42
dpmthe gwibber api and gtk widget is pending an SRU11:42
dpmto make it work on 12.0411:42
pavolzetorI see11:43
pavolzetorwhat I wanted to say11:43
dpmand we've got a tutorial in the works11:43
dpmok, go ahead, sorry11:43
pavolzetorit is obvious Facebook is standard for communication now11:43
pavolzetorongoing revolution11:43
pavolzetorso I would love to have11:43
pavolzetornautilus/shotwell/empathy integration11:43
pavolzetorlike you just login, and enter your name11:43
dpmgotcha11:43
pavolzetorand password11:43
pavolzetorand you have got eveything synced11:44
pavolzetoralso calendar with birthdays and events11:44
pavolzetoractaully I am gonig to apply for job in facebook, because I wnat to be part of revolution11:44
pavolzetorand I assume ubuntu is going to tablet market too11:45
pavolzetorsince PC are becoming more techie than consumer market11:45
dpmyou should apply for a job at Canonical. Ubuntu is the revolution :)11:45
pavolzetorI am student, canonical does not have internships ;)11:46
pavolzetorand facebook is just huge11:46
pavolzetorthey need to develop phone, and I have dreamed about it for a long time11:46
RobinJ1995this might be a stupid question... but how do i decrease the size of a text entry in glade designer?11:47
pavolzetorbut are there any plans for tablet, but I mean with strict design11:47
RobinJ1995oh wait there's a width in characters thing11:47
pavolzetordpm: are there any plans for that?11:48
dpmpavolzetor, for tablet? Yes, we're looking at multiple devices phone, tv, tablet... but I'm not very much involved in that part11:48
pavolzetorI see11:49
pavolzetorI know it is very hard11:49
pavolzetoryou have got scarce resources (people)11:49
pavolzetorand gnome is not going that waty11:49
pavolzetorway11:49
pavolzetorI think ubuntu can be major success on phones, all phones I had sucked11:50
pavolzetorAndroid is the worst11:51
pavolzetorIphone and WP7.5 are not that bad11:51
pavolzetorI just want to say, that it seems to me, that train is moving at some speed, and ubuntu cannot cope with it11:51
pavolzetor:/11:51
dpmwe're on it :)11:54
pavolzetordpm11:54
pavolzetordoes not seem to me :(11:54
pavolzetorin future, majority will use tablets11:55
pavolzetoror something like that11:55
pavolzetorpc will be only for people who create something I believe11:55
pavolzetorso it will be much smaller market11:55
dpmyou seem to be making some bold statements, have you got data to back them up? :)11:56
dpm(I don't have myself)11:56
pavolzetorI trust my inuition11:57
pavolzetorintuition11:57
pavolzetorgoing to dig numbers11:57
pavolzetorPhones are obvious, but for tabltes I need to find numbers11:58
pavolzetorbut if you look what majority do on computer11:58
pavolzetoris browsing facebook and websites11:58
pavolzetoron tablet this is much conveniet11:58
pavolzetorand it was everywhere11:59
pavolzetoralmost every market goes through this11:59
pavolzetorfrom geeky/techie to consumer11:59
pavolzetorcars11:59
pavolzetorcomputers12:00
pavolzetor67 millions of iPads were sold12:00
RobinJ1995<dpm> you seem to be making some bold statements, have you got data to back them up? :) << i think he might actually be right, though "android sucks" is relative. i personally hate iOS12:00
pavolzetorI have android12:01
pavolzetorit is too geeky12:01
pavolzetorpeople do not understand it12:01
pavolzetorI mean consumers12:01
RobinJ1995i have an android tablet as well, but it's just.... buggy and the apps are usually low quality12:01
RobinJ1995what? what's so hard about android?12:01
pavolzetorI can use android ;)12:02
pavolzetorbut UX is horrible even in ICS12:02
RobinJ1995in iOS it took me 10 to set a custom ringtone on an iPhone only to find out that it wasn't possible12:02
pavolzetorI give you examples12:02
pavolzetorbottons at bottom (hard to reach with thumb, also on iphone)12:02
RobinJ1995what? how're they hard to reach?12:02
RobinJ1995i can reach the back button with my thumb12:03
pavolzetorif I hold phone, they are too far12:03
RobinJ1995depends on the model probably12:03
pavolzetoralso top bar12:03
RobinJ1995but still the bottom is the most reachable part :p12:03
RobinJ1995top bar? android doesn't have a top bar12:03
pavolzetorit does12:03
RobinJ1995it doesn't, anymore ;p12:03
pavolzetorone iwth signal, battery12:03
pavolzetorhmm, I still have it12:04
pavolzetorawkward12:04
RobinJ1995you have android 2.0?12:04
pavolzetor4.412:04
RobinJ19954.4 doesn't even exist12:04
pavolzetor4.0.412:04
RobinJ19954.0.4 doesn't have a top bar12:04
beemasterhelp12:04
beemaster!help12:04
ubot2Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience12:04
twobottuxPlease don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience12:04
beemasterhow to get available commands here?12:05
RobinJ1995pavolzetor, where do you see the top bar? http://ubuntuone.com/3w0ipx8eaMg2p7Zi5a1AUn12:05
pavolzetorhttp://developer.android.com/sdk/images/4.0/home-lg.png12:05
RobinJ1995... must be phone-specific, cause the tablet  certainly doesn't have it12:06
pavolzetorokay, now it is bottom bar, but is is useless, they should have it on lock screen, I do not care about battery until it is problem12:06
RobinJ1995anyway, i dont think having it at the top is a bad idea12:06
pavolzetorI have it on phone12:06
RobinJ1995i would want it on a phone :p12:06
pavolzetorbut you do not care about signal or batter, if it is not low12:06
pavolzetoralso sides should be touchfriendly12:07
pavolzetorso yo udo not have to search for volume up/down buttons12:07
pavolzetorjust swipe with finger12:07
pavolzetorthis one I want to patent :D12:07
RobinJ1995actually i do care about it12:08
pavolzetorwhy>12:08
RobinJ1995.... patents suck12:08
pavolzetor?12:08
RobinJ1995it totally blocks innovation12:08
pavolzetorto be honest, I would love to be part of team developing new phone12:08
pavolzetorpatent would be only way to get into team ;)12:09
RobinJ1995then go for a job at canonical ;p12:09
pavolzetorthey are not going to make phone ;)12:09
RobinJ1995patents do nothing good, they just block innovation12:09
pavolzetorand I am only beginner12:09
RobinJ1995if apple saw ubuntu as a threat ubuntu would be sued to death in 5 minutes12:09
pavolzetorbut if I make design and publish it, can anybody just copy it?12:09
pavolzetorI do not want to get moeny from it12:09
pavolzetorI just want others to make something even better12:09
RobinJ1995no, they shouldn't be allowed to simple use your design. but patenting things like having a touchpad in the middle of a laptop (fuck apple for that) is just stupid12:10
pavolzetorbut copyright is enough for that probably12:10
pavolzetorI see12:10
RobinJ1995if apple can sue a company for using "rounded corners" in their applications, then what can't they sue you for?12:11
pavolzetorI see12:11
pavolzetorI think patent should  be used only for smart thing12:12
pavolzetors12:12
pavolzetorlike tesla did12:12
pavolzetorwhat make me sad is community about gnome12:12
pavolzetoraround12:13
pavolzetorand to ICS point12:13
pavolzetorICS is too complicated12:13
RobinJ1995ics?12:13
RobinJ1995stands for?12:13
pavolzetorit was designed by guy from palm, so yo ucan see it is not totally bfu friendly12:13
pavolzetorice cream sandwich12:14
RobinJ1995ah12:14
RobinJ1995ics is easy12:14
pavolzetorfor you maybe12:14
pavolzetorfor my dad not12:14
pavolzetorthese people hate buttons and settings ;)12:14
RobinJ1995yeah but old people shouldn't use smartphones =D12:14
pavolzetorhttp://www.nest.com/12:14
pavolzetorthis is beautiful12:14
RobinJ1995well they don't have any buttons, only an oversized screen :D12:14
pavolzetorbut you can get feel, it just makes me happy when I see it12:15
pavolzetorbut what you are forgeting about12:15
pavolzetorevery human being goes through stages/cycles12:15
RobinJ1995you've got things for people who like to keep it simple (elementary os, nokia 3310, ...) and you've got things for more advanced people (arch linux, android)12:16
RobinJ1995that's simply how it is :p12:16
pavolzetorI know, there are eceptions like you, or some geeks :)12:16
pavolzetorbut I just want to contradict with your smartphone old people thesis12:16
RobinJ1995give me something like chrome os, i'll find my way around. give me gentoo, i'll find my way around too.12:16
pavolzetoryou will get to some age, and you like simple things, you spend your time on doing something else12:17
pavolzetorI was kinda geek12:17
RobinJ1995and i'd hate both of them at the end of the day :p12:17
pavolzetorcompilling and so on12:17
pavolzetorbut now I jsut do not have time for that12:17
pavolzetorand I want to use computer, not to play with it12:17
pavolzetorbecause I spend my time on something else12:17
pavolzetorand if you will get family, children12:17
pavolzetorit will cahnge too12:17
pavolzetorelementary os is not nice, I do not like it12:18
pavolzetorjust copying mac12:18
RobinJ1995yeah i know12:18
pavolzetorwhen mac is for geeks ;)12:18
RobinJ1995but it works great for people who like it simple12:18
pavolzetoriOS is for masses12:18
pavolzetorchrome os is probably dead end, just sideline of android12:18
smolnijHello. Could you plese clarify is that acceptable to submit games to the Ubuntu App Showdown ?12:18
RobinJ1995iOS? srsly it's crap. friend of my mother constantly calls me for help when she can't get things done on her iPhone. and usually she can't get em done because the option is simply not available12:18
pavolzetorbut you are special12:18
RobinJ1995am i? :')12:19
dpmlol12:19
dpmsmolnij, it is acceptable, yes. There is nothing in the rules that prohibits games. In fact, we'd love to see some!12:19
pavolzetorI might sound crazy, but you will see in future ;)12:20
smolnijgot it, thanks!12:20
pavolzetoriOS is nice, but I have plenty of ideas how to improve it, what I miss are emotions and focus on devices12:20
pavolzetorfor example12:20
pavolzetorwhy icons cannot be faded by degree of usage?12:21
RobinJ1995because it'd only be confusing and ugly12:21
pavolzetorso if I use facebook every day, it should be more visible than twitter, which I use not that often12:21
RobinJ1995but user-friendlyness isn't the biggest problem of software today. the overall quality of software is simply going down the drain at an alarming rate12:21
RobinJ1995blergh, facebook :p12:21
RobinJ1995it would be invisivle for me, then12:22
pavolzetorI think it would not be ugly12:22
pavolzetorbecause yo udo not care ;)12:22
pavolzetorI am doing these news crappy app12:22
pavolzetorand I am going to play with highlihtinf12:22
pavolzetorthey can be grayed out12:23
pavolzetorI mean icons12:23
pavolzetorQuality wise12:23
RobinJ1995"recently used" section ;p12:23
pavolzetorrecently used is holly mess :)12:23
pavolzetorbecause it does not keep position12:23
pavolzetorI would remove it from every app12:24
pavolzetorpeople get confused if you change order of things12:24
pavolzetorand about quality, I know it is not nice12:24
pavolzetorbut many ubuntu apps does not meet my requirements12:24
pavolzetorandroid are almost all crap12:25
pavolzetorsome games are nice12:25
pavolzetorbut apps are horrible12:25
RobinJ1995well, allmost every application "doesn't meet my requirements"12:25
pavolzetormy requirements => basic user requirements ;)12:26
pavolzetorI am basic user12:26
RobinJ1995windows doesn't meet my requirements because it's slow and inefficient; mac doesn't meet them because it'd cost me 1200 euros to use it; ubuntu doesn't because it's buggy abd slow, but not as buggy and slow as windows12:26
pavolzetorthat is also problem of gnome and so on12:26
pavolzetorI feel like they create apps for themselves and not for others12:26
RobinJ1995yeah gnome is aiming at making thiongs easier, but they're just making things more confusing12:26
RobinJ1995pavolzetor, how come?12:27
pavolzetorTotem12:27
RobinJ1995yes?12:27
pavolzetorRhythmbox12:27
RobinJ1995looks ugly, but does a good job12:27
RobinJ1995rhythmbox is awesome12:27
pavolzetorjust examples of user unfriedlines12:27
RobinJ1995what's wrong with them?12:27
pavolzetorokay, I give yo uexample how totem should look like12:27
RobinJ1995what? they're easier than wmp's cryptic interface....12:27
pavolzetorin my opinion12:27
pavolzetorif you launch totem12:28
pavolzetorthere should be nice grid with last seen movies12:28
pavolzetorand movies you might like12:28
pavolzetornot just empty screen12:28
pavolzetoralso side pane should be removed completely12:28
RobinJ1995pavolzetor, agreed, that's a good idea. you should submit that as an idea ;p12:28
RobinJ1995side pane is good for playlists12:29
RobinJ1995but should indeed not be theree when not using a playlist12:29
pavolzetornobody uses them ;)12:29
RobinJ1995those are 2 things i've been saying for ages12:29
RobinJ1995playlists? i use playlists daily12:29
pavolzetorI mean basic user launch app and want to see movie12:29
pavolzetorthat is reason why he launched totem12:29
pavolzetornot because of playlists ;)12:29
pavolzetoryou are special, as I said ;)12:29
RobinJ1995agreed, but when the user uses a playlist the sidebar should be there. otherwise, it should be hidden12:30
pavolzetoryou can sumbit it then ;)12:30
RobinJ1995actaully, i dunno where12:30
pavolzetorbut this is just start12:30
RobinJ1995does any of you know where ideas should be submitted to? launchpad -> blueprints?12:30
pavolzetorjust tiny bit12:31
RobinJ1995ok, tell me then :p12:31
RobinJ1995what's with rhythmbox?12:31
pavolzetorisn't it wasting time :)12:31
pavolzetor?12:31
RobinJ1995no, actually i'm curious what you think the problem is with some applications12:31
pavolzetorokay12:31
RobinJ1995as i might learn from it :p12:31
pavolzetorhope devs of particular apps will fix it12:32
pavolzetorare yo udev?12:32
pavolzetorwhat I like is ubuntu light font ;), I love it12:32
RobinJ1995i'm 17, but might be one day12:32
RobinJ1995i've made a few apps12:32
pavolzetorbest thing in ubuntu12:32
pavolzetorhaha, I am really old than12:32
RobinJ1995how old r you?12:32
pavolzetor20 :D12:32
pavolzetorokay12:32
pavolzetorthis is not dating irc12:32
pavolzetorto rhythmbox12:33
pavolzetorI do not use it often12:33
RobinJ1995i know, just asked, and 20's not old yet :p12:33
pavolzetorbecause it is more comfortable to listen to music on youtube12:33
pavolzetormy body says something different ;)12:34
RobinJ1995http://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads5/4fdb2b7ab0aca/4fdb2b7aa14b4-Screenshot_from_2012-06-15_14%3A32%3A33.png << so this is rhythmbox's interface. what's wrong with it? :p12:34
pavolzetorI have ubuntu Q12:34
pavolzetorthey have changed it12:34
pavolzetora little12:34
RobinJ1995ah 12.1012:35
RobinJ1995yeah i know they're screwing it up there12:35
pavolzetoractually, they just polishing bad design12:35
RobinJ1995lol? what's wrong with the current design?12:36
pavolzetorI am fascinated by design, but I jsut started12:36
pavolzetormaybe 2 months ago12:36
pavolzetorokay12:36
pavolzetorI will give you list12:36
pavolzetorit misses streaming12:36
pavolzetorsomething like spotify12:36
RobinJ1995streaming is perfectly possible in rhythmbox12:36
pavolzetoralso sound settings12:36
pavolzetornot possible as it should be12:37
pavolzetorbut lets talk about design12:37
RobinJ1995sound settings? sound settings are for your operating system to manage12:37
pavolzetornonoi12:37
pavolzetorI mean slider for settings osund12:37
RobinJ1995the volume? upper right corner ;)12:37
pavolzetoryep12:37
pavolzetorit should not be there12:38
pavolzetorpeople do not get it12:38
pavolzetorthey always go to top panel for this settings12:38
RobinJ1995why not? it's compact and easily reachable up there :p12:38
pavolzetorit should be smart, so if you get call, it should pause12:38
pavolzetorI say people do not get it (my father and little sample I had)12:38
pavolzetorthey are not tech savvy12:38
pavolzetoralso12:39
RobinJ1995and is that because they're simply used to windows? or because it's counter-intuitive? ;p12:39
pavolzetorI would remove shuffle and repeat fro mto ppanel12:39
pavolzetorI believe it is counter intuitive12:39
RobinJ1995because after having used ubuntu for a long time, there's always a war ging on between me and windows explorer12:39
pavolzetor I strongly believe12:40
RobinJ1995what? you just said they should remove the 3 buttons i most use from the top panel12:40
pavolzetorthis should be handled in background12:40
pavolzetorand mainly, you do not listen to movie and music at one time12:40
pavolzetorit is nice feature, but not handled properly12:40
pavolzetoryep, you are special12:40
pavolzetoras I said12:40
RobinJ1995no i'm not xd12:41
pavolzetorplaylists12:41
pavolzetorwhat people hate is organizing stuff12:41
RobinJ1995but applications shouldn't be designer ONLY for people who like it simple. people who like it simple can ignore the buttons, peeple who use them have them for easy access12:41
pavolzetorprove is how calendars are unsuccesfull, even social one like upto12:41
RobinJ1995i don't, appart from organizing my room12:42
pavolzetorI am talking about defaults12:42
pavolzetorand ubuntu is mass market12:42
pavolzetoror it wants to be that12:42
pavolzetoryou should have few settings and simple stuff12:42
pavolzetorgeeks already probably left12:42
RobinJ1995i'd say +5000000 users is already mass market :p12:43
pavolzetorI shouw yo uscreenshot12:43
pavolzetormass market for me is at least 50 millions12:43
RobinJ1995lol12:43
pavolzetorof people you target at12:43
pavolzetorso 50 millions of basic users12:43
pavolzetorthere is much more people using computers12:44
pavolzetorso yo uneed to scale your base12:44
RobinJ1995well, i'm, at this moment, developing an application. what i'm doing is; i show the basic funtionality which you need to be able to use the application, and there's an expander titled "Advanced", so that advanced options get hidden by default. would you say that's a good way to deal with it?12:44
pavolzetorbasis12:44
pavolzetorhttp://ubuntuone.com/1ACuXXKtotntXnaFieH8su12:46
pavolzetorhow should Libreoffice look like in default12:46
pavolzetorcirca12:46
pavolzetor+ overlay scrollbars + global menu12:46
pavolzetorwhat are yo udeveloping?12:46
pavolzetorI need to see screenshot12:47
pavolzetoryou can ask georgi karavasilev12:47
pavolzetorhe is pretty good12:47
pavolzetorI am begginer, maybe 2 months12:47
pavolzetorit came organically over years though12:47
RobinJ1995can't say i agree on the libreoffice thing12:48
pavolzetorwhy?12:48
RobinJ1995because a lot of people don't even realise the global menu is there, and they wouldnt know how to open or save a file12:49
RobinJ1995pavolzetor, main window: http://minus.com/mbdTHOy0m2/12:50
RobinJ1995main window with advanced options expanded: http://minus.com/mbdTHOy0m2/212:50
RobinJ1995connect window: http://minus.com/mbdTHOy0m2/312:50
pavolzetorif you use ubuntu, you will know that about menu12:50
pavolzetor;)12:50
RobinJ1995connect window with advanced options expanded: http://minus.com/mbdTHOy0m2/412:50
pavolzetoractaully I believe, menu sohuld be used only in few cases12:50
pavolzetorso do not make save12:50
pavolzetorask that when yo ucreate document12:51
pavolzetorhow yo uwant to name it12:51
RobinJ1995save automatically? bad idea12:51
pavolzetorwhat should your app to do?12:51
pavolzetorwith revisions12:51
RobinJ1995basically, remote desktop12:51
pavolzetorso you can roll back12:51
RobinJ1995something like teamviewer, but native for linux and easier12:51
pavolzetoris it in python?12:52
RobinJ1995mac, ubuntu and windows all have revisions implemented12:52
RobinJ1995yes12:52
pavolzetorGI?12:52
pavolzetoror pygtk12:52
RobinJ1995gtk glade12:52
pavolzetorI see12:52
pavolzetorso pygtk probably12:52
pavolzetorto be honest motorslav@gmail.com12:53
pavolzetorthis guy is much better than me12:53
RobinJ1995lol12:53
pavolzetorso what do you do with your app most of the time12:53
pavolzetordefinitely add some spacing12:53
pavolzetorfrom edges and between widgets too12:54
RobinJ1995een more spacing? 0.o12:54
RobinJ1995*even12:54
pavolzetorplay with it ;)12:54
pavolzetorbut what are steps?12:54
pavolzetorlike you launch app12:55
pavolzetorthan enter someting?12:55
pavolzetordefinitely remove dialog windows12:56
pavolzetorI recommend to use only one window12:56
RobinJ1995er, it doesn't do anything yet. i just have those 2 dialogs and that's it for now :p12:56
pavolzetorfor IP address12:56
pavolzetordoes it jump automatically when yo utype?12:56
RobinJ1995not yet12:57
RobinJ1995but i was planning on that12:57
kubuntu_guyHi, I was wondering if I am allowed to submit more than one App for the Ubuntu App Showdown Contest??12:58
pavolzetorokay :)12:58
pavolzetorjust get rid of dialog windows12:58
pavolzetorI have it with passion in emapthy12:59
pavolzetorhate12:59
RobinJ1995if you want a clean interface, then often dialogs are your only option13:00
pavolzetorI do not think so13:00
pavolzetoryou can play with focus, add transitions13:00
pavolzetorhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaVhlYzIU-s13:00
pavolzetormy app, but this is old version13:01
pavolzetorI am working on fucus and animations13:01
pavolzetorjust eample how yo ucan have dialog in window13:01
RobinJ1995if i got a window with just a + sign in it i wouldnt know what to do ;p13:02
pavolzetor:D13:02
pavolzetorou really?13:02
pavolzetorokay, just got idea13:03
pavolzetoryou can make it fliud13:03
pavolzetorfluid13:03
pavolzetorso it will be organic13:03
pavolzetormake it flow from right to left13:03
pavolzetorlike some process13:03
pavolzetordialogs are evil, because you miss context also13:03
RobinJ1995well let's first see if i can manage to make the backend ;p13:03
pavolzetorprobably you should look at cluttergtk13:04
pavolzetoras gtk does not have animations13:04
RobinJ1995it's not really the easiest application to start with developing in python ;p13:04
pavolzetortell me about that13:04
pavolzetorare you going to make it over dbus?13:04
RobinJ1995pavolzetor, i do not need animations. i want my application to be responsive and consistent13:04
RobinJ1995pavolzetor, don't have a clue.13:04
pavolzetorI though I do not need girlfriend, and I miss human contact now :D13:05
RobinJ1995first going to experiment a bit with one-way sockets, and then see if i can manage to make it duplex13:05
pavolzetorI meant you can make it like process, step by stepp13:05
pavolzetorlike on websites13:05
pavolzetoror music13:05
pavolzetorgo forward13:06
pavolzetormake it feel like something natural13:06
pavolzetoranimations are pretty good, if you use them properly13:06
pavolzetorthey can hint you direction of flow13:06
RobinJ1995but they make the application inconsistent with the rest of the desktop13:06
pavolzetorplease contact guy I gave you13:07
pavolzetorthat is problem of desktop ;)13:07
RobinJ1995no, it's not13:07
pavolzetoralso Iphone was inconsistant13:07
pavolzetoryou have to think out of the bost13:07
pavolzetorx13:07
RobinJ1995if you want to develop an application for a desktop, it's your responsibility to follow the guidelines of that desktop13:07
pavolzetornot if guidelines are bad13:08
RobinJ1995but the guidelines are good13:08
RobinJ1995standards are there for a reason13:08
pavolzetorI do not think o13:08
pavolzetorso13:08
RobinJ1995i'm not planning on making inconsistent crap like microsoft13:08
pavolzetorit still can lok like Gtk13:08
pavolzetorMetro is actually amazing13:08
pavolzetorfor touch devices13:08
pavolzetorthey just need to play more with focus13:08
pavolzetorbecause what people care about is to make things visible, especially things you care about13:09
RobinJ1995metro is `microsoft claims gnome shell/unity`13:09
pavolzetorI do not understand that :)13:09
RobinJ1995well basically it's microsoft's implementation of ubuntu's unity and gnome's dash13:10
pavolzetorI do not think so13:10
pavolzetorAs far as I know, n microsoft, it takes some time to get news in public13:10
pavolzetorlike kinect was developed much earlier than it was released13:10
pavolzetormetro si super smart, to be honest, I really like it, on thing from MS (including FSX)13:11
pavolzetorand it is completely different from unity/shell13:12
pavolzetorunity is about "I know what I want I search for it"13:12
pavolzetormetro "I do not search, I have what I wanted already there"13:13
pavolzetorhope nobody from microsoft/canonical or facebook is in IRC, because I wil definitely get job after presenting my ideas :)13:14
RobinJ1995? dunno how you made that up13:14
pavolzetorwhat exactly?13:14
RobinJ1995metro's and uity's search system are exactly the same, appart from that gnome and unity both have a seperate bar for pinning apps to13:14
pavolzetorno13:15
pavolzetormetro is less about searching13:15
RobinJ1995tell me, what's the difference then, according to yu?13:15
pavolzetorif I go into unity, I search for something13:15
RobinJ1995metro is just as much aboput search as unity13:15
pavolzetorin metro, I just launch and see what I wanted13:15
RobinJ1995no, you dont. the panel at the left side is also unity13:15
pavolzetorI know13:15
pavolzetorbe it is not on my screen13:15
pavolzetorthey show information in different manner13:16
pavolzetorto feeling13:16
RobinJ1995tiles vs icon?13:16
pavolzetoryep13:16
pavolzetortiles are smarter, if you can make it clutterless and paly nicely with user focus13:16
pavolzetorhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaVhlYzIU-s13:16
pavolzetorjust open any video13:16
RobinJ1995all i know is that microsoft's metro and ubuntu's unity are both slow and buggy13:16
pavolzetorit does nto matter13:17
pavolzetorand go to end13:17
pavolzetoryo ucan see tiles loading13:17
pavolzetorleft corner to right corner13:17
RobinJ1995nah, i'm not so much for tiles 8 ;p13:17
pavolzetorit just feel weirdly13:17
pavolzetorit shoul pop up randomly13:17
pavolzetorI am for tiles13:17
pavolzetoractaully I am for presenting information you care about in smart suit13:18
pavolzetorunity is slow13:18
pavolzetormetro is not ;)13:18
pavolzetorunity is getting bugless13:18
pavolzetorat least they are going to fix bugs I reported ;)13:18
pavolzetoranyway, anyone knows why flash videos lag if I use alt tab or dash?13:20
pavolzetor*I will definitely do not get job*13:21
pavolzetorI need to go, nice talk, have a lovely day and good luck to all contestants :)13:24
RobinJ1995eh, metro is slow as well13:30
dholbachmhall119, if I install a new lens and restart my session, it should work and show up with a new icon in the search thing, right? if it doesn't where would I read that it fails? in ~/.xsession-errors?13:40
mhall119dholbach: it should auto-start13:41
dholbachhum hum13:42
dholbachok13:42
mhall119Unity will add the icon when it sees a .lens file in /usr/share/unity/lenses/<lensname>13:42
mhall119but IIRC, it doesn't start the daemon until it needs it, then it gets dbus to start it13:42
mhall119I'm not sure where it logs to13:42
dholbachok13:42
dholbachI'll play around with it a bit more and let you know when I run out of ideas :)13:43
RobinJ1995what the.... ubuntu's failing again13:55
RobinJ1995it wont let me disable my second monitor13:56
dholbachhum, I just fell out of the internet - did anyone have an answer to my question? :)14:07
twobottuxauappdev: How do I translate a quickly project? <http://askubuntu.com/questions/151260/how-do-i-translate-a-quickly-project>14:10
dholbachmhall119, if you have a bit of time later on today and could branch and test-build the vm-lens and tell me if it works for you, that'd make me happy14:58
dholbachI'm not quite sure if I'm doing anything wrong14:58
dholbachbut at least all the files should be in the right place already14:58
mhall119dholbach: sure,what's the branch?15:02
dholbachmhall119, it's lp:~dholbach/ubuntu-app-reviews/vm-lens15:02
spartan2276How can I add a secondary Window with Glade using Quickly?  I can build my project but when I add a new window and then I run quickly run the new window is not added.18:14
spartan2276Quickly is great if you want to build a one window app but it does nothing else not cool18:15
spartan2276and in the tutorials there is no clear way on how to do this, everything is a single window app18:16
spartan2276I'm I missing something?18:16
pavolzetorhello18:37
pavolzetorI saw post about that other languages and toolkits can be used18:37
pavolzetorso my question is, if I haven;t published my app, but I have been working on it, if I still can submit it, or write it fro mscratch ?18:37
pavolzetorthanks18:37
spartan2276seems like people are very helpful on this channel. it sucks too because Ubuntu is an awesome OS :(18:38
twobottuxauappdev: Can I participate in showdown contest with friend? <http://askubuntu.com/questions/151390/can-i-participate-in-showdown-contest-with-friend>18:40
pavolzetorI havent; published it, only PPA, so I jsut wonder, if I can submit it or not18:40
twobottuxauappdev: Is a non-trivial blender plug-in considered an app? <http://askubuntu.com/questions/151394/is-a-non-trivial-blender-plug-in-considered-an-app> || Facing problem with the simple-player quickly tutorial <http://askubuntu.com/questions/151393/facing-problem-with-the-simple-player-quickly-tutorial>18:51
tom_hi, I started this project about a week ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXBdApRBdnE but didnt continue it since then.. would it be fine to use it as a base for the Ubuntu App Showdown submission? If not, would it be ok to rewrite this base or wouldn't I be allowed to use it at all?20:23
pavolzetortom_: looks nice :), even I think mac design is outdated, but pop up search is lovely :)20:44
pavolzetorI am asking same question20:44
pavolzetorbut I have been developing it for few month with month gap20:44
pavolzetordue to exams20:44
tom_hm..apparently no one knows.. does anyone have an email I could send this question to? :/21:25
JanCtom_: maybe best ask on askubuntu.com21:42
JanCthis sounds related: http://askubuntu.com/questions/151196/can-i-use-old-code-by-myself-to-build-on-for-my-entry-in-the-ubuntu-app-showdown21:42
tom_JanC: ah, perfect. thanks :)21:48

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