=== genii-around is now known as genii [07:01] JontheEchidna: I just got you and the lead dev od openshot mixored up :/ I was thinking, JontheEchidna develops openshot? huh? === cjwatson is now known as cjwatson_ === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson [11:41] Hey all === G4MBY is now known as Guest77904 [15:19] kubotu: newversion [15:19] incorrect usage, ask for help using 'kubotu: help newversion' [15:19] kubotu: help newversion [15:19] newpackage [description]; Adds needs-packaging bug for entirely new package. [15:19] newversion [description]; Adds update bug for existing package. [15:19] kubotu: calligra 2.5beta 2.5 beta [15:19] kubotu: newversion calligra 2.5beta 2.5 beta [15:19] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1014082 [15:19] Launchpad bug 1014082 in calligra (Ubuntu) "Please update calligra to 2.5beta" [Undecided,New] [15:19] whee === Guest77904 is now known as PaulW2U [17:22] jussi: hehe, yeah, I've gotten that before ;-) [17:23] I've started putting my middle name in things like identity.kde.org to hopefully help w/ that [17:24] e.g. https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/sysadmin/muon/repository/revisions/5cfd7a24425c933c1db4d62877532a19fc76e3aa [17:25] I've copied 4.8.4 to the updates PPA [17:26] maybe someone can write an announcement on kubuntu.org? [17:27] debfx: I can, or I can just give you the details so you can do it yourself [17:28] ? [17:29] Riddell: does the login work with any browser now? [17:29] debfx: don't think so, rekonq/konqueror only [17:30] Why is that? :P [17:30] nobody knows [17:30] heh [17:40] ok, announcement is up [17:41] and yes, login still doesn't work with firefox :/ [17:41] debfx: I've added a thank you note to Felix :) [17:44] :) [17:47] hm https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Kubuntu is outdated [17:48] lots of wiki pages are [17:50] yeah but this one is linked in all our KDE release announcements [17:59] 4.8.90 is working for me in ninjas, I think I'll move it to backports [18:11] Riddell: beta please, not backports [18:15] yofel: oh yes thanks for reminding me [18:44] copying packages in launchpad is just a case of 5 at a time to stop timeouts? [18:47] ... which is why I wrote a script to do that [18:47] kopypackages in kubuntu-dev-tools [18:48] aah [18:48] (It's not a member of package count but size, kdeartwork for example usually fails unless copied alone) [18:49] *matter [18:56] yep [19:00] lovely that did it [19:30] voila kubuntu.org/news/kde-sc-4.8.90 [19:55] Any thoughts on bug 875040 [19:55] Launchpad bug 875040 in kmymoney (Ubuntu) "KMyMoney window cannot be resized smaller" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/875040 [20:19] shadeslayer: upstream bug? (just reading the title) [20:20] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kmymoney/+bug/875040/comments/7 [20:20] Launchpad bug 875040 in kmymoney (Ubuntu) "KMyMoney window cannot be resized smaller" [Undecided,New] [20:20] Riddell: Better read that comment [21:20] shadeslayer: mm, no idea I'm afriad [21:20] yeah, I have little idea as well [21:23] fun bug [21:26] "You have 3 friends with birthdays this week" [21:26] * shadeslayer ponders about askin unity developers [21:26] for every website on the internet you get 3 mails a day [21:27] shadeslayer: uhm, I can't resize it here either... (kmymoney 4.6.2 on quantal) [21:27] in KDE? [21:27] well, resize it smaller, larger works [21:27] yeah [21:27] O_O [21:27] ok so definitely upstream bug [21:27] or [21:27] nvm, yes upstream bug [21:28] COUNCIL VOTE CLOSING IN 3 HOURS OR SOMETHING [21:41] apachelogger: ooh exciting [21:42] I think I will come in last :( [21:51] you weren't last on my voting list at least [21:55] shadeslayer: hm, I just noticed that the user said it's a regression from natty->oneiric. But we have the same kmymoney version in both [21:57] yofel: which comment number? [21:57] oh nvm [21:58] so ... what is it? 0.o [21:58] * shadeslayer is confused [21:58] that is one funky bug tbh [21:59] it can't be unity because you say the issue happens in KDE as well, it can't be KMM because apparently the same version is in natty and oneiric [21:59] well, I'm just looking for any minimumSize settings... but I can't find anything that should apply for the main window... [22:00] so maybe it's some size handling bug in QtGtk that was fixed? [22:00] or introduced [22:00] I wish we could close bug reports like this one with the explanation : This software contains magical code which produces magical bugs, please contact apachelogger for his ponies in order to fix this bug [22:00] what bug? what? [22:00] QtGtk? how would that come into the picture? [22:01] apachelogger: boog 875040 [22:01] the user was using ubuntu? [22:01] ubottu: would you be so kind as to tell me what bug 875040 is as shadeslayer cannot use trigger words? [22:01] Launchpad bug 875040 in kmymoney (Ubuntu) "KMyMoney window cannot be resized smaller" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/875040 [22:01] apachelogger: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [22:02] thus the UI would be rendered using Qt's gtk renderer [22:02] apachelogger: now you're just being lazy [22:03] comment #2 wouldn't make sense in that case though [22:03] uhm, iirc XFCE uses GTk as well [22:03] someone give me a TLDR version [22:03] the english in some comments gives me cancer [22:04] apachelogger: essentially, you cannot resize KMM [22:04] apachelogger: user complains that he can't make the window smaller in unity, worked in 11.04 and works in xfce. (I can't make it smaller here in KDE either) [22:05] maybe upstream set a minimumSize [22:05] there's tons of nonsense minimumSize's in the ui files, so I can't fine anything concrete [22:05] at least nothing that should affect the main window... [22:05] if upstream set a minimum size that would affect all windowmanagers as Qt refuses to go below that ALWAYS [22:06] yofel: minimumsizes combined with layouts can become a problem [22:06] particularly if defined static, which they should never ever be [22:06] yofel: wouldn't the main window NOT go below the least size of a element [22:06] anyhow, sounds to me like a window manager problem [22:06] shadeslayer: good point [22:07] otherwise there is no reason why it would work on xfce but not on unity [22:07] the only viable difference is the window manager [22:08] apachelogger: but you can't resize it below a certain value in KDE as well [22:08] which is to say, it could still be a minimumsize issues, only that metacity decides to be bugged and ignore it [22:08] shadeslayer: so? [22:08] kwin aint perfect [22:09] ^_^ [22:09] true, could be a metacity bug where it just ignores minimumSize [22:09] fun: [22:09] [ ~/tmp/kmymoney-4.6.2 27 files 580Kb ] [22:09] yofel@yofel-T510 $ grep minimumSize -R * | wc -l [22:09] 169 [22:09] whereas kwin and whatever-unity-uses do respect it [22:10] uh yeah, too many minimumSize's to reduce the location of the bug [22:11] use gammaray [22:12] my VPS is almost out of memory trying to link calligra stuff [22:12] apachelogger: oh .. gammaray can help in this case? [22:12] it always helps [22:12] heh ^_^ [22:12] you can inspect widgets and shit [22:12] gammaray is really really cool [22:13] I've only used it once or twice though ... [22:20] oh, I read somewhere that ubuntu has some sort of automated testing for ISO's [22:21] is that specifically for unity ? [22:21] ScottK: now that we're in universe, can we put our old universe packages into the seeds so kubuntu-dev gets upload rights for them? (e.g. blinken, kdevelop-php, digikam, ...) We maintain those anyway [22:27] agateau: I'm still a bit lost on the app indicator support, does it just need porting to KSNI? [22:29] shadeslayer: status notifier == app indicator [22:29] yofel: hmm good question [22:29] no clue why canonical to call it app indicator, they are funny I suppose [22:29] oh really? awesome, I've worked with KSNI before, should be trivial [22:29] I think they came up with the same then looked around for a technology to implement it [22:29] s/same/name/ [22:29] Riddell meant: "I think they came up with the name then looked around for a technology to implement it" [22:29] * apachelogger as usual does not compute shadeslayer [22:30] apachelogger: ktp needs porting to app indicator/KSNI/whatever [22:30] ktp? [22:30] I was looking ait for a bit last week [22:30] apachelogger: kde telepathy [22:31] aint it a plasmoid? [22:31] actually [22:31] why is it a plasmoid? [22:31] the text-ui isn't [22:31] there's a plasmoid for chatting :) [22:31] which doesn't work for me, only the systray icon works [22:31] as well a contact list plasmoid [22:31] I totally don't get why things are the way they are [22:32] yofel: maybe 0.4 will work? I'm waiting on gkiagia to get the packages into debian, then we can just sync them [22:32] yofel: add them to supported I think [22:34] shadeslayer: ah, nice, can't wait :) [22:45] calligra takes forever to build :( [22:46] you could've guessed that... [22:46] * yofel now wonders if digikam or calligra takes longer... [22:46] I'd say calligra [22:47] because digikam makes to compiler ICE [22:47] :P [22:47] s/to/the/ [22:47] shadeslayer: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed" [22:47] ll [22:47] *lol [22:52] I think gcc-4.7 ( 13ubuntu1 ) fixes the ICE though [22:55] shadeslayer: I'd be blaming Compiz for the kmymoney stuff personally [22:56] stuff exactly like this used to happen in the old days [22:56] JontheEchidna: doesn't work in KDE as well, so I think apachelogger got it right, bug in metacity and KMM, compiz and kwin just following the application [22:56] "old-days" .. hahaha :D [22:57] back before kde4, around Gutsy times [22:58] I wonder how many people who contributed to releases before 8.04 are still around [22:59] 8.04? Oo [22:59] oh, actually [22:59] my netbook had 8.04 ^^ [22:59] turns out the wifi didn't work [22:59] was quite a deal break [23:00] I started contributing during 8.04 when the kde4 spin CD's first came out :) [23:00] that's... four years ago O_O [23:01] I started using kubuntu with 8.04 [23:01] horrible time reall [23:01] *really [23:02] KDE4 had just come out [23:03] * yofel with 9.10 - 4.3 was the first usable release really. [23:04] used gnome in the meantime [23:05] I don't remember 4.0 being all that bad [23:06] just because it was worse then 3.5 that had come before people's expectations had got out of hand [23:06] just to make sure I understand this right: If I put something into the supported Seed germinate will pull in all build-depends as well? (i.e. if I add perlkde it'll pull in ->perlqt+smokekde->smokeqt as well?) [23:07] thing sometimes regress but generally they improve, that's what this book The Rational Optimist says [23:07] yofel: yeah should do [23:07] k [23:32] \o/ digikam builds [23:35] yofel_: Should be able to, yes. [23:35] now, if I did this right now you'll actually be able to upload it. (whenever the seeds are processed) [23:37] apachelogger: what is the difference between a KNotification and KSNI? [23:38] ksni = systray icon, knotification = notification [23:38] KSNI is specifically for notifications regarding messages? [23:38] oh [23:38] KSNIs are usually used for indicating the status of a running application [23:38] and providing controls for manipulating the program [23:38] KNotifications are text notifications from the app [23:38] hm [23:39] "Hey I just borked your HDD" [23:39] heh [23:39] "Reformat? y/n" [23:39] "Reformat? Y/n" :P [23:39] right, so KNotifications shouldn't allow you to interact with the app? [23:39] JontheEchidna: hig fail [23:39] KNotifications can have action buttons embedded in them [23:40] right, which is what ktp-text-ui does right now [23:40] but all they do is look fugly [23:40] basically the precense plasmoid could be a KSNI if it wanted to (talking about 0.3) [23:40] dunno what's changed in 0.4 [23:41] nah, the presence plasmoid wasn't designed that way afaik [23:41] eh, all it is is an icon showing the state, with a context menu [23:41] which is exactly what a KSNI is [23:41] *nod* [23:41] if yer off the icon would be in passive state [23:42] (i.e. hidden in the popup) [23:42] wait, so will this also require me to re write the presence plasmoid? [23:42] what are you trying to do again? (I've not read backlog) [23:42] * apachelogger does not know what needs to be done :P [23:43] <-- cleaning up amarok includes [23:43] major bumpain [23:43] JontheEchidna: trying to figure out what needs to be done to implement KSNI support in kde telepathy === yofel_ is now known as yofel [23:43] shadeslayer: you'd probably want a KDED module that implements a KSNI interface [23:43] shadeslayer: you don't implement KSNI support [23:43] if you wanted KSNI [23:43] you have apps be a KSNI :P [23:44] it enitrely depends on what the KSNI is supposed to do really [23:44] JontheEchidna: not if it's complicated [23:44] if the kded module goes to shitz so does kded as we have learned through memleakery :P [23:44] ok, I'm still confusing stuff here it seems [23:44] apachelogger: it either: launches the account manager executable, launches the contacts list .exe, or does nothing when clicked [23:45] & listens to precense status messages [23:45] well, I do not know what shadeslayer wants to do :P [23:45] so ideally, this KSNI should inform the user of a) New messages, b) new incoming contacts, c) New video/audio calls [23:45] that's all I can think of right now [23:46] all of that is handled via KNotification right now [23:46] that sounds like the correct way to do that [23:46] (use KNotifications) [23:46] shadeslayer: how does it get that infomration? [23:46] or rather [23:47] what does the user do upon getting a notification? [23:47] the notifications are right [23:47] AAMOF you often end up combining a KSNI with KNotifications [23:47] apachelogger: for texts there's a button to reply, for new incoming contacts he can accept or deny ( and I think there's a option to block, not sure if that works ) [23:48] shadeslayer: the part that provides the notifications then also wants to be a KSNI [23:48] JontheEchidna: notifications are not enough here as they time out, which is e.g. not good when having a new message [23:49] apachelogger: doesn't the KDE notifications widget store them? [23:49] ^ [23:49] JontheEchidna: yes but you have no active feedback [23:49] But ... those are not persistent iirc [23:49] JontheEchidna: by that reasoning muon should not have a KSNI for updates :P [23:49] shadeslayer: they are until you clean them, or too many piled up [23:49] apachelogger: it has the option to use KSNI, KNotification, both or none :P [23:49] no clue how many many are tho :P [23:50] JontheEchidna: so why is the default both? :P [23:50] also ETOOMANYOPTIONS [23:50] when in KNotification-only mode, the KNotify's are made persistent [23:50] apachelogger: and the latter is perfectly plausible when using a IM app, imagine having 5 people contact you with 5 messages when you're away from your desk [23:51] in the combo mode, it's non-persistent knotifies w/ the tray for interaction [23:51] shadeslayer: which is why you should have a KSNI [23:51] in tray-only mode you just get a mysterious KSNI in the tray :P [23:51] (mind that for us that KSNI use case overlaps with message indicator) [23:51] right [23:51] so ideally, along with the KNotifications, a KSNI should be used [23:52] and the KSNI will be a central place for all messages coming from KTP [23:52] so it should ideally be a daemon [23:52] iirc kde-telepathy already has a kded [23:52] ^ yep [23:52] yeah [23:52] shadeslayer: whatever causes the notifications shoudl also provide the KSNI [23:53] yay, I am lagging, someone is downloading prn again \o/ [23:53] apachelogger: uh ... the text ui has separate notification code [23:53] and the KSNI would then provide those notifications and combine that w/ status info [23:53] ( that's the the only submodule I've investigated so far ) [23:53] taking over what the prescence widget has been doing [23:53] okay [23:55] * apachelogger really doens't know/understand all the ktp modules :P [23:55] btw, I'm re-enabling k3b-i18n in this merge since we're now in universe [23:55] 5 MINUTES FOR COUNCIL ELECTION [23:56] * apachelogger almost wrote erection :@ [23:56] lul [23:56] we'll probably want to look at all of our seeded packages not covered by kde-l10n-* and ensure that they get integrated in to the l10n-foo [23:57] JontheEchidna: no idea what that means [23:57] also no idea what was disabled in k3b [23:57] make sure they get installed when an international user installs k3b [23:58] it used to be: just install language-pack-kde-* and k3b docs are installed [23:58] now one must install k3b-i18n to get l10n for all languages [23:59] this move to universe has finally given us what we wanted (to not use rosetta) so now we must take responsibility :P