[07:01] <jussi> JontheEchidna: I just got you and the lead dev od openshot mixored up :/ I was thinking, JontheEchidna develops openshot?  huh? 
[11:41] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[15:19] <Riddell> kubotu: newversion
[15:19] <kubotu> incorrect usage, ask for help using 'kubotu: help newversion'
[15:19] <Riddell> kubotu: help newversion
[15:19] <kubotu> newpackage <packagename> <version> [description]; Adds needs-packaging bug for entirely new package.
[15:19] <kubotu> newversion <packagename> <version> [description]; Adds update bug for existing package.
[15:19] <Riddell> kubotu: calligra 2.5beta 2.5 beta
[15:19] <Riddell> kubotu: newversion calligra 2.5beta 2.5 beta
[15:19] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1014082
[15:19] <Riddell> whee
[17:22] <JontheEchidna> jussi: hehe, yeah, I've gotten that before ;-)
[17:23] <JontheEchidna> I've started putting my middle name in things like identity.kde.org to hopefully help w/ that
[17:24] <JontheEchidna> e.g. https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/sysadmin/muon/repository/revisions/5cfd7a24425c933c1db4d62877532a19fc76e3aa
[17:25] <debfx> I've copied 4.8.4 to the updates PPA
[17:26] <debfx> maybe someone can write an announcement on kubuntu.org?
[17:27] <Riddell> debfx: I can, or I can just give you the details so you can do it yourself
[17:28] <Riddell> ?
[17:29] <debfx> Riddell: does the login work with any browser now?
[17:29] <Riddell> debfx: don't think so, rekonq/konqueror only
[17:30] <shadeslayer> Why is that? :P
[17:30] <Riddell> nobody knows
[17:30] <shadeslayer> heh
[17:40] <debfx> ok, announcement is up
[17:41] <debfx> and yes, login still doesn't work with firefox :/
[17:41] <Riddell> debfx: I've added a thank you note to Felix :)
[17:44] <debfx> :)
[17:47] <debfx> hm https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Kubuntu is outdated
[17:48] <Riddell> lots of wiki pages are
[17:50] <debfx> yeah but this one is linked in all our KDE release announcements
[17:59] <Riddell> 4.8.90 is working for me in ninjas, I think I'll move it to backports
[18:11] <yofel> Riddell: beta please, not backports
[18:15] <Riddell> yofel: oh yes thanks for reminding me
[18:44] <Riddell> copying packages in launchpad is just a case of 5 at a time to stop timeouts?
[18:47] <yofel> ... which is why I wrote a script to do that
[18:47] <yofel> kopypackages in kubuntu-dev-tools
[18:48] <Riddell> aah
[18:48] <yofel> (It's not a member of package count but size, kdeartwork for example usually fails unless copied alone)
[18:49] <yofel> *matter
[18:56] <Riddell> yep
[19:00] <Riddell> lovely that did it
[19:30] <Riddell> voila kubuntu.org/news/kde-sc-4.8.90
[19:55] <shadeslayer> Any thoughts on bug 875040
[20:19] <Riddell> shadeslayer: upstream bug? (just reading the title)
[20:20] <shadeslayer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kmymoney/+bug/875040/comments/7
[20:20] <shadeslayer> Riddell: Better read that comment
[21:20] <Riddell> shadeslayer: mm, no idea I'm afriad
[21:20] <shadeslayer> yeah, I have little idea as well
[21:23] <yofel> fun bug
[21:26] <apachelogger> "You have 3 friends with birthdays this week"
[21:26]  * shadeslayer ponders about askin unity developers
[21:26] <apachelogger> for every website on the internet you get 3 mails a day
[21:27] <yofel> shadeslayer: uhm, I can't resize it here either... (kmymoney 4.6.2 on quantal)
[21:27] <shadeslayer> in KDE?
[21:27] <yofel> well, resize it smaller, larger works
[21:27] <yofel> yeah
[21:27] <shadeslayer> O_O
[21:27] <shadeslayer> ok so definitely upstream bug
[21:27] <shadeslayer> or
[21:27] <shadeslayer> nvm, yes upstream bug
[21:28] <apachelogger> COUNCIL VOTE CLOSING IN 3 HOURS OR SOMETHING
[21:41] <Riddell> apachelogger: ooh exciting
[21:42] <apachelogger> I think I will come in last :(
[21:51] <yofel> you weren't last on my voting list at least
[21:55] <yofel> shadeslayer: hm, I just noticed that the user said it's a regression from natty->oneiric. But we have the same kmymoney version in both
[21:57] <shadeslayer> yofel: which comment number?
[21:57] <shadeslayer> oh nvm
[21:58] <shadeslayer> so ... what is it? 0.o
[21:58]  * shadeslayer is confused
[21:58] <shadeslayer> that is one funky bug tbh
[21:59] <shadeslayer> it can't be unity because you say the issue happens in KDE as well, it can't be KMM because apparently the same version is in natty and oneiric
[21:59] <yofel> well, I'm just looking for any minimumSize settings... but I can't find anything that should apply for the main window...
[22:00] <yofel> so maybe it's some size handling bug in QtGtk that was fixed?
[22:00] <yofel> or introduced
[22:00] <shadeslayer> I wish we could close bug reports like this one with the explanation : This software contains magical code which produces magical bugs, please contact apachelogger for his ponies in order to fix this bug
[22:00] <apachelogger> what bug? what?
[22:00] <shadeslayer> QtGtk? how would that come into the picture?
[22:01] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: boog 875040
[22:01] <yofel> the user was using ubuntu?
[22:01] <apachelogger> ubottu: would you be so kind as to tell me what bug 875040 is as shadeslayer cannot use trigger words?
[22:02] <yofel> thus the UI would be rendered using Qt's gtk renderer
[22:02] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: now you're just being lazy
[22:03] <yofel> comment #2 wouldn't make sense in that case though
[22:03] <shadeslayer> uhm, iirc XFCE uses GTk as well
[22:03] <apachelogger> someone give me a TLDR version
[22:03] <apachelogger> the english in some comments gives me cancer
[22:04] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: essentially, you cannot resize KMM
[22:04] <yofel> apachelogger: user complains that he can't make the window smaller in unity, worked in 11.04 and works in xfce. (I can't make it smaller here in KDE either)
[22:05] <shadeslayer> maybe upstream set a minimumSize
[22:05] <yofel> there's tons of nonsense minimumSize's in the ui files, so I can't fine anything concrete
[22:05] <yofel> at least nothing that should affect the main window...
[22:05] <apachelogger> if upstream set a minimum size that would affect all windowmanagers as Qt refuses to go below that ALWAYS
[22:06] <apachelogger> yofel: minimumsizes combined with layouts can become a problem
[22:06] <apachelogger> particularly if defined static, which they should never ever be
[22:06] <shadeslayer> yofel: wouldn't the main window NOT go below the least size of a element 
[22:06] <apachelogger> anyhow, sounds to me like a window manager problem
[22:06] <yofel> shadeslayer: good point
[22:07] <apachelogger> otherwise there is no reason why it would work on xfce but not on unity
[22:07] <apachelogger> the only viable difference is the window manager
[22:08] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: but you can't resize it below a certain value in KDE as well
[22:08] <apachelogger> which is to say, it could still be a minimumsize issues, only that metacity decides to be bugged and ignore it
[22:08] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: so?
[22:08] <apachelogger> kwin aint perfect
[22:09] <shadeslayer> ^_^
[22:09] <shadeslayer> true, could be a metacity bug where it just ignores minimumSize
[22:09] <yofel> fun:
[22:09] <yofel> [ ~/tmp/kmymoney-4.6.2 27 files 580Kb ]
[22:09] <yofel> yofel@yofel-T510 $ grep minimumSize -R * | wc -l
[22:09] <yofel> 169
[22:09] <shadeslayer> whereas kwin and whatever-unity-uses do respect it
[22:10] <shadeslayer> uh yeah, too many minimumSize's to reduce the location of the bug
[22:11] <apachelogger> use gammaray
[22:12] <shadeslayer> my VPS is almost out of memory trying to link calligra stuff
[22:12] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: oh .. gammaray can help in this case?
[22:12] <apachelogger> it always helps
[22:12] <shadeslayer> heh ^_^
[22:12] <apachelogger> you can inspect widgets and shit
[22:12] <shadeslayer> gammaray is really really cool
[22:13] <shadeslayer> I've only used it once or twice though ... 
[22:20] <shadeslayer> oh, I read somewhere that ubuntu has some sort of automated testing for ISO's
[22:21] <shadeslayer> is that specifically for unity ?
[22:21] <yofel> ScottK: now that we're in universe, can we put our old universe packages into the seeds so kubuntu-dev gets upload rights for them? (e.g. blinken, kdevelop-php, digikam, ...) We maintain those anyway
[22:27] <shadeslayer> agateau: I'm still a bit lost on the app indicator support, does it just need porting to KSNI?
[22:29] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: status notifier == app indicator
[22:29] <Riddell> yofel: hmm good question
[22:29] <apachelogger> no clue why canonical to call it app indicator, they are funny I suppose
[22:29] <shadeslayer> oh really? awesome, I've worked with KSNI before, should be trivial 
[22:29] <Riddell> I think they came up with the same then looked around for a technology to implement it
[22:29] <Riddell> s/same/name/
[22:29] <kubotu> Riddell meant: "I think they came up with the name then looked around for a technology to implement it"
[22:29]  * apachelogger as usual does not compute shadeslayer
[22:30] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ktp needs porting to app indicator/KSNI/whatever
[22:30] <apachelogger> ktp?
[22:30] <shadeslayer> I was looking ait for a bit last week
[22:30] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: kde telepathy
[22:31] <apachelogger> aint it a plasmoid?
[22:31] <apachelogger> actually
[22:31] <apachelogger> why is it a plasmoid?
[22:31] <shadeslayer> the text-ui isn't
[22:31] <shadeslayer> there's a plasmoid for chatting :)
[22:31] <yofel> which doesn't work for me, only the systray icon works
[22:31] <shadeslayer> as well a contact list plasmoid
[22:31] <apachelogger> I totally don't get why things are the way they are
[22:32] <shadeslayer> yofel: maybe 0.4 will work? I'm waiting on gkiagia to get the packages into debian, then we can just sync them
[22:32] <Riddell> yofel: add them to supported I think
[22:34] <yofel> shadeslayer: ah, nice, can't wait :)
[22:45] <shadeslayer> calligra takes forever to build :(
[22:46] <yofel> you could've guessed that...
[22:46]  * yofel now wonders if digikam or calligra takes longer...
[22:46] <shadeslayer> I'd say calligra
[22:47] <shadeslayer> because digikam makes to compiler ICE
[22:47] <shadeslayer> :P
[22:47] <shadeslayer> s/to/the/
[22:47] <kubotu> shadeslayer: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[22:47] <yofel> ll
[22:47] <yofel> *lol
[22:52] <shadeslayer> I think gcc-4.7 ( 13ubuntu1 ) fixes the ICE though
[22:55] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: I'd be blaming Compiz for the kmymoney stuff personally
[22:56] <JontheEchidna> stuff exactly like this used to happen in the old days
[22:56] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: doesn't work in KDE as well, so I think apachelogger got it right, bug in metacity and KMM, compiz and kwin just following the application
[22:56] <shadeslayer> "old-days" .. hahaha :D
[22:57] <JontheEchidna> back before kde4, around Gutsy times
[22:58] <shadeslayer> I wonder how many people who contributed to releases before 8.04 are still around
[22:59] <apachelogger> 8.04? Oo
[22:59] <apachelogger> oh, actually
[22:59] <apachelogger> my netbook had 8.04 ^^
[22:59] <apachelogger> turns out the wifi didn't work
[22:59] <apachelogger> was quite a deal break
[23:00] <JontheEchidna> I started contributing during 8.04 when the kde4 spin CD's first came out :)
[23:00] <JontheEchidna> that's... four years ago O_O
[23:01] <shadeslayer> I started using kubuntu with 8.04
[23:01] <shadeslayer> horrible time reall
[23:01] <shadeslayer> *really
[23:02] <shadeslayer> KDE4 had just come out
[23:03]  * yofel with 9.10 - 4.3 was the first usable release really. 
[23:04] <yofel> used gnome in the meantime
[23:05] <Riddell> I don't remember 4.0 being all that bad
[23:06] <Riddell> just because it was worse then 3.5 that had come before people's expectations had got out of hand
[23:06] <yofel> just to make sure I understand this right: If I put something into the supported Seed germinate will pull in all build-depends as well? (i.e. if I add perlkde it'll pull in ->perlqt+smokekde->smokeqt as well?)
[23:07] <Riddell> thing sometimes regress but generally they improve, that's what this book The Rational Optimist says
[23:07] <Riddell> yofel: yeah should do
[23:07] <yofel> k
[23:32] <shadeslayer> \o/ digikam builds
[23:35] <ScottK> yofel_: Should be able to, yes.
[23:35] <yofel_> now, if I did this right now you'll actually be able to upload it. (whenever the seeds are processed)
[23:37] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: what is the difference between a KNotification and KSNI?
[23:38] <apachelogger> ksni = systray icon, knotification = notification
[23:38] <shadeslayer> KSNI is specifically for notifications regarding messages?
[23:38] <shadeslayer> oh
[23:38] <JontheEchidna> KSNIs are usually used for indicating the status of a running application
[23:38] <JontheEchidna> and providing controls for manipulating the program
[23:38] <JontheEchidna> KNotifications are text notifications from the app
[23:38] <shadeslayer> hm
[23:39] <JontheEchidna> "Hey I just borked your HDD"
[23:39] <shadeslayer> heh
[23:39] <JontheEchidna> "Reformat? y/n"
[23:39] <JontheEchidna> "Reformat? Y/n" :P
[23:39] <shadeslayer> right, so KNotifications shouldn't allow you to interact with the app?
[23:39] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: hig fail
[23:39] <JontheEchidna> KNotifications can have action buttons embedded in them
[23:40] <shadeslayer> right, which is what ktp-text-ui does right now
[23:40] <shadeslayer> but all they do is look fugly
[23:40] <JontheEchidna> basically the precense plasmoid could be a KSNI if it wanted to (talking about 0.3)
[23:40] <JontheEchidna> dunno what's changed in 0.4
[23:41] <shadeslayer> nah, the presence plasmoid wasn't designed that way afaik
[23:41] <JontheEchidna> eh, all it is is an icon showing the state, with a context menu
[23:41] <JontheEchidna> which is exactly what a KSNI is
[23:41] <apachelogger> *nod*
[23:41] <apachelogger> if yer off the icon would be in passive state
[23:42] <apachelogger> (i.e. hidden in the popup)
[23:42] <shadeslayer> wait, so will this also require me to re write the presence plasmoid?
[23:42] <JontheEchidna> what are you trying to do again? (I've not read backlog)
[23:42]  * apachelogger does not know what needs to be done :P
[23:43] <apachelogger> <-- cleaning up amarok includes
[23:43] <apachelogger> major bumpain
[23:43] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: trying to figure out what needs to be done to implement KSNI support in kde telepathy
[23:43] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: you'd probably want a KDED module that implements a KSNI interface
[23:43] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: you don't implement KSNI support
[23:43] <JontheEchidna> if you wanted KSNI
[23:43] <apachelogger> you have apps be a KSNI :P
[23:44] <apachelogger> it enitrely depends on what the KSNI is supposed to do really
[23:44] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: not if it's complicated
[23:44] <apachelogger> if the kded module goes to shitz so does kded as we have learned through memleakery :P
[23:44] <shadeslayer> ok, I'm still confusing stuff here it seems
[23:44] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: it either: launches the account manager executable, launches the contacts list .exe, or does nothing when clicked
[23:45] <JontheEchidna> & listens to precense status messages
[23:45] <apachelogger> well, I do not know what shadeslayer wants to do :P
[23:45] <shadeslayer> so ideally, this KSNI should inform the user of a) New messages, b) new incoming contacts, c) New video/audio calls
[23:45] <shadeslayer> that's all I can think of right now
[23:46] <shadeslayer> all of that is handled via KNotification right now
[23:46] <JontheEchidna> that sounds like the correct way to do that
[23:46] <JontheEchidna> (use KNotifications)
[23:46] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: how does it get that infomration?
[23:46] <apachelogger> or rather
[23:47] <apachelogger> what does the user do upon getting a notification?
[23:47] <apachelogger> the notifications are right
[23:47] <apachelogger> AAMOF you often end up combining a KSNI with KNotifications
[23:47] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: for texts there's a button to reply, for new incoming contacts he can accept or deny ( and I think there's a option to block, not sure if that works )
[23:48] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: the part that provides the notifications then also wants to be a KSNI
[23:48] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: notifications are not enough here as they time out, which is e.g. not good when having a new message
[23:49] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: doesn't the KDE notifications widget store them?
[23:49] <shadeslayer> ^
[23:49] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: yes but you have no active feedback
[23:49] <shadeslayer> But ... those are not persistent iirc
[23:49] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: by that reasoning muon should not have a KSNI for updates :P
[23:49] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: they are until you clean them, or too many piled up
[23:49] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: it has the option to use KSNI, KNotification, both or none :P
[23:49] <apachelogger> no clue how many many are tho :P
[23:50] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: so why is the default both? :P
[23:50] <apachelogger> also ETOOMANYOPTIONS
[23:50] <JontheEchidna> when in KNotification-only mode, the KNotify's are made persistent
[23:50] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: and the latter is perfectly plausible when using a IM app, imagine having 5 people contact you with 5 messages when you're away from your desk
[23:51] <JontheEchidna> in the combo mode, it's non-persistent knotifies w/ the tray for interaction
[23:51] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: which is why you should have a KSNI
[23:51] <JontheEchidna> in tray-only mode you just get a mysterious KSNI  in the tray :P
[23:51] <apachelogger> (mind that for us that KSNI use case overlaps with message indicator)
[23:51] <shadeslayer> right
[23:51] <shadeslayer> so ideally, along with the KNotifications, a KSNI should be used
[23:52] <shadeslayer> and the KSNI will be a central place for all messages coming from KTP
[23:52] <shadeslayer> so it should ideally be a daemon 
[23:52] <JontheEchidna> iirc kde-telepathy already has a kded
[23:52] <shadeslayer> ^ yep
[23:52] <apachelogger> yeah
[23:52] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: whatever causes the notifications shoudl also provide the KSNI
[23:53] <apachelogger> yay, I am lagging, someone is downloading prn again \o/
[23:53] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: uh ... the text ui has separate notification code
[23:53] <JontheEchidna> and the KSNI would then provide those notifications and combine that w/ status info
[23:53] <shadeslayer> ( that's the the only submodule I've investigated so far )
[23:53] <JontheEchidna> taking over what the prescence widget has been doing
[23:53] <shadeslayer> okay
[23:55]  * apachelogger really doens't know/understand all the ktp modules :P
[23:55] <JontheEchidna> btw, I'm re-enabling k3b-i18n in this merge since we're now in universe
[23:55] <apachelogger> 5 MINUTES FOR COUNCIL ELECTION
[23:56]  * apachelogger almost wrote erection :@
[23:56] <JontheEchidna> lul
[23:56] <JontheEchidna> we'll probably want to look at all of our seeded packages not covered by kde-l10n-* and ensure that they get integrated in to the l10n-foo
[23:57] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: no idea what that means
[23:57] <apachelogger> also no idea what was disabled in k3b
[23:57] <JontheEchidna> make sure they get installed when an international user installs k3b
[23:58] <JontheEchidna> it used to be: just install language-pack-kde-* and k3b docs are installed
[23:58] <JontheEchidna> now one must install k3b-i18n to get l10n for all languages
[23:59] <JontheEchidna> this move to universe has finally given us what we wanted (to not use rosetta) so now we must take responsibility :P