/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/16/#ubuntu-uk.txt

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popeymorning07:11
christelmorning!07:15
popey  TID  PRIO  USER     DISK READ  DISK WRITE  SWAPIN     IO>    COMMAND07:15
popey 4505 be/4 alan     1272.21 K/s    0.00 B/s  0.00 % 96.96 % firefox07:15
popeydear firefox, what on earth are you doing?07:15
DJonesIf anybody has missed the freenode notices, if you have alternate nicks you haven't used for 150 days you need to /nick to them this morning or they will be lost in a database prune07:22
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bigcalmMorning peeps :)09:35
Laneygreetings09:35
brobostigongood morning everyone,09:42
bigcalmWhat's the recommended imap server these days?10:00
DJonesgmail :)10:01
brobostigongoogle apps*10:02
dutchiebigcalm: dovecot, if you want to host yourself10:17
bigcalmdutchie: that's what I've used in the past. Wondered if popularity had changed or not10:18
dutchienot afaik10:19
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* DJones wonders if its patch saturday for Ubuntu, 200 updates.... I'm sure there were only about 15 showing on Thursday when the machine was last on11:04
dogmatic69what is 'ubuntu 12.04 cloud'?12:44
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matttczajkowski: see the ireland game today?15:11
zleapits on later right15:13
zleapengland game was good yesterday,  will be interesting to see how rooney fits in to the team now we have kinda shown we can play well without him15:14
matttzleap: rugby :P15:16
matttbut yeah, great win for england yesterday15:17
matttzleap: was also thinking the same thing about rooney ...15:17
zleaphe will need to work extra hard,  I am sure he can fit in,  it just depends on opponents15:17
mattti just want to see england play well15:19
zleapyeah15:20
mattttoo much sports on right now, it's killing me15:21
matttvideos from djangocon europe 2012: http://www.klewel.com/conferences/djangocon-2012/15:23
zleapwait till the olympics15:25
zleapwill have loads on then,15:25
zleapbut that may leave more time for hacking on linux etc,   if we are bored with sport15:25
knightwisexws16:24
knightwiseah16:24
knightwisei'm back :)16:24
knightwisetimed out there for a minute16:24
AzelphurThis mouse really needs to be a trackball :( http://bit.ly/M438Eh16:44
knightwisewould be pretty effective in a 1st person shooter :)16:45
* knightwise working on putting a machine together to run old games under wine16:46
knightwiseHalf life and such :)16:46
MartijnVdSAzelphur: it needs 100 more buttons and be called a keyboard16:46
knightwisehaha :)16:46
Azelphurhehe16:46
knightwisei still can't get used to gaming with a paddle and stuff16:46
AzelphurMartijnVdS: you'd be surprised how many extra buttons I have16:46
* knightwise is an old dude who used to frag with a cherry keyboard16:46
knightwiseupside was : you could also slug your component to death with a keyboard like that16:46
Azelphurhttps://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120613_033112.jpg is my current setup :P16:47
knightwisedude ! seriously ?16:47
Azelphuryup16:47
knightwiseis that a mouse a trackball or both16:47
Azelphurtrackball16:47
MartijnVdSAzelphur: I want fewer buttons, not more16:47
MartijnVdSalso.. ewww backlight :)16:47
Azelphurhaha16:48
knightwiselogitech used to make pretty things16:48
Azelphurhow are they not pretty :o16:48
knightwisehmm.. kinda klunky16:48
awilkinsNaah, the Cherry keyboards have good switches but the only keyboards you can beat someone to death with AND keep using afterwards are the Model Ms16:48
knightwiselooks like an IBM AS400 keyboard had a one night stand with a neonsign16:48
* awilkins looks at the photo and dry-heaves at all the blue lights16:49
Azelphurknightwise: lol clunky :P, the keyboard itself runs embedded Linux16:49
Azelphurto control all the hardware in the keyboard xD16:49
knightwiseallthough16:49
knightwisei must say : i do miss the backlights on my mac keyboards16:49
knightwisei have them on the notebooks but not on the stand alone keyboards16:49
AzelphurI love the backlights, my entire system has ended up black / blue which is pretty cool16:49
* knightwise misses dad16:49
knightwisei always feel like i'm visiting a prostitute when i'm working with backlight16:50
awilkinsI quite like the integrated overhead lamp on the Lenovos16:50
* knightwise misses THAT (dad too , but ..)16:50
MartijnVdSknightwise: are those two statements connected? :P16:50
knightwiseTHAT is sweet16:50
knightwiseMartijnVdS: nope , KW senior wasn't much of a gamer16:50
knightwiseallthoug i did teach him how to swap cd's in a cd burner once :)16:51
awilkinsI have a Dell at work with a backlit KB which seems a shame because the lights are never off16:51
knightwisehe was pretty good at that16:51
Azelphur-.- I accidentally clicked print in thunderbird, clicked cancel and now it's spamming me with loading content for printing popups \o/16:51
awilkinsI have a Saitek X3616:51
awilkinsIt makes me want one of their newer models... but then I think "What will I play on it?"16:52
awilkinsNo Tie Fighter, no X-Wing, no Wing Commander16:52
awilkinsRealistic flight sims are OK, but I like space16:53
awilkinsThe last one I enjoyed was I-War 2 I suppose16:53
awilkinsI liked flying the larger mass / more inertia ships in that16:53
* knightwise is holding his old copy of Xwing vs tfighter right now :)16:54
knightwisealong with doom3, Halflife 2 and return to castle wolfenstein16:54
awilkinsAnd it had a better dogfight mechanic than X-Wing - the engines disrupted the shields, so you had a reason for getting behind your target, rather than just having to be really good at deflection shooting like in most other space combat sims16:54
awilkinsIf they mated EVE Online with I-War I'd be a happy bunny16:55
awilkinsAlthough that new Mojang thing, 0x10c sounds very good too16:56
awilkinsIf a little like "Corewar in SPACE!!"16:56
awilkinsWhat with the 16-bit CPU emulator16:56
knightwisethere .. installing 12.04 on the older clunker. Its a p4 but its REALLY quiet .. ideal for the living room16:58
mgdmbigcalm: sheesh, that's comedy16:58
knightwiseadd some XBMC on it and Hoppa16:58
bigcalmmgdm: isn't it just?16:59
mgdmbigcalm: VTiger's that SugarCRM fork, ain't it?16:59
mgdmbigcalm: remind me to never ever ever go near it? :)16:59
bigcalmmgdm: no idea. I'm looking around for a membership thingy for a club my father is in to use16:59
mgdmHmmm. I'd suggest VTiger was overkill, then16:59
bigcalmI guess so :)17:00
mgdmquite apart from the fact that it doesn't work17:00
bigcalmAny recommendations?17:00
bigcalmIt works if you set display_errors to off17:00
mgdmthat's like saying my car goes on fire, but it still works if I wear fireproof overalls17:01
bigcalm:D17:01
bigcalmYes, I'm not defended it in the slightest17:01
bigcalming not ed17:03
bigcalmAnyway, the search continues17:03
mgdmdo one in Django? :)17:11
bigcalmI need an off the shelf program as I don't have the time or will to maintain one17:11
bigcalmI also don't know python :)17:11
bigcalmAbout to look at CiviCRM. It appears to be a plugin for existing CMSs: http://civicrm.org/go/download17:11
bigcalmAnd why django?17:15
mgdmit's handy for making CRUD-type apps17:17
AlanBellbigcalm: when you say a "membership thingy" could you be a bit more specific?17:40
AlanBellis it for the clubs to sell memberships and track who is current, or somewhere for the members to do stuff?17:40
AlanBellif it is the latter then elgg might possibly be a platform to look at17:41
bigcalmAlanBell: the club currently has a MS Access database that 1 person has control over. They need a web interface to a central database to manage who the members are, their details and at some point payments17:41
bigcalmAlanBell: did you see the screen shots I tweeted to mgdm?17:42
AlanBellno17:42
AlanBellhttp://doc.openerp.com/v6.0/vi/technical_guide/membership.html17:42
ali1234heh, yes, an enterprise crm will be much easier for them to use17:43
AlanBellopenerp is a potential option, but it is a bit overweight17:43
bigcalmAlanBell: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/21403906487629414417:43
AlanBellnot that there is anything wrong with being a little bit overweight you understand17:43
bigcalm:D17:44
* bigcalm rests a beer on his tum17:44
AlanBellerr, that is broken bigcalm, it shouldn't do that17:44
bigcalmAlanBell: default install17:44
bigcalm:)17:44
mgdmindeed :)17:44
bigcalmFrom sauce17:45
bigcalmsource17:45
AlanBellerr, no that works just fine normally17:45
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* bigcalm shrugs17:45
mgdmI might try later17:45
mgdmI run with error_reporting = -1, so I see everything it's doing wrong17:46
* mgdm -> food17:46
AlanBellnot saying it is great code or anything, but http://biz.libertus.co.uk/vtiger/ is a default install17:46
AlanBellbigcalm: what is the output of echo PHP_SAPI;17:52
bigcalmAlanBell: in PHP or bash?17:53
AlanBellphp17:53
bigcalmcli17:54
bigcalmI have to go for now. Back later :)17:54
AlanBellhmm, ok that is correct17:54
christelHELLO BIRTHDAY BOY17:55
AlanBello/ christel :)17:55
popeyHappy birthday AlanBell !17:56
* AlanBell is feeling quite elderly17:56
DJonesYou can get arrested for doing that17:57
MartijnVdSDJones: what, feeling up the elderly?18:00
DJonesMartijnVdS: Yep18:00
DJonesMy wife has been done 3 times for that18:00
* AlanBell has birthday beer18:01
AlanBellhttp://www.jenningsbrewery.co.uk/beers/beer.aspx?bid=718:01
matttAlanBell: how old today?  :)18:02
AlanBell0x2518:03
AlanBellit sounds good in hex18:04
matttAlanBell: ah, still young18:04
mattthappy bday tho :_18:06
mattt:P18:06
AlanBell:)18:06
penguin42AlanBell: Happy bday18:08
AlanBellthanks18:09
* StevenR wishes it didn't take quite so long to *start* an ubuntu install18:28
StevenR(we've spent several hours faffing with different isos, re-imaging usb sticks, etc.)18:28
MartijnVdSStevenR: class 10 SD + fast reader + SSD18:29
AzelphurStevenR: are you deploying lots of Ubuntu installs on similar machines?18:30
StevenRAzelphur: no. I'm just trying to install *one*18:31
StevenRMartijnVdS: eventually, we'll get installing on the SSDs18:32
StevenRbut it appears to be terribly hard to create a usb stick that both supports raid, and will boot.18:32
MartijnVdSwhy would you do raid if you have btrfs?18:34
jacobwbecause it sounds cooler?18:36
MartijnVdSjacobw: meh18:36
StevenRMartijnVdS: btrfs?18:40
MartijnVdSbtrfs!18:40
MartijnVdSStevenR: ask popey about RAID and btrfs18:40
Azelphurhas anyone ever managed to set something up where the whole of / is loaded into ram?18:42
MartijnVdSAzelphur: long ago18:42
AzelphurI want to do it :P18:42
MartijnVdSAzelphur: (the thing I did just never pivoted out of the initramfs)18:42
AzelphurI have a 6.22GB Root and 12GB of RAM so, should be possible :D18:42
MartijnVdSah18:42
MartijnVdSthat'll be harder18:42
MartijnVdSrunning a real distro on there :)18:43
Azelphuryea, I actually wanna run a real distro :P18:43
Azelphurie, XUbuntu18:43
MartijnVdSupgrades will be annoying18:43
Azelphurwhy?18:43
penguin42Azelphur: You might try something evil like a RAID1 between RAM and the disk and then take the disk out of the RAID18:43
MartijnVdSpenguin42: you scare us18:43
Azelphurhaha18:44
penguin42MartijnVdS: Trust me, I can always find the most insane way of combining any two pieces of technology18:44
MartijnVdSpenguin42: XT + smart phone18:44
jacobwthe raid1 thing actually sounds like a good idea, if you don't remove the disk18:44
penguin42XT?18:45
penguin42jacobw: Yeh I think there might be better ways of just turning up the disk caching - I mean you shouldn't need to do that just to increase disc caching18:45
MartijnVdSpenguin42: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_XT18:45
penguin42MartijnVdS: Oh, that XT - hmm yes that should be doable - do you want the XT emulated on the smartphone or something more insane?18:46
AzelphurI mean to get another 12GB RAM it's gonna cost me like £90, much less than a high performance SSD and much faster18:46
penguin42MartijnVdS: My most recent madness is https://www.redhat.com/archives/linux-lvm/2012-April/msg00022.html18:46
jacobwi'm not sure why he'd want to do this18:46
Azelphurjacobw: because it's way faster/cooler than a SSD?18:46
penguin42Azelphur: Yeh keep adding RAM, but you shouldn't need to do anything to persuade the kernel to use it to cache; you just need to do something to cause all the stuff to get read in early18:46
penguin42Azelphur: Write latency will still suck when it actually wants to sync to the disk18:47
Azelphuryea18:47
penguin42Azelphur: The thing is for the same money a small SSD might give you a bigger perf improvement (depending what you're doing)18:48
Azelphurreally? Isn't ram astronomically faster than any SSD18:49
* jacobw thinks about access times18:49
penguin42Azelphur: Ish - but it's rare you can get away without any writes at all18:49
Azelphurpenguin42: I mean, I just tried writing a file to /dev/shm18:51
Azelphurand got 1.9GB/sec18:51
penguin42Azelphur: Oh yeh, RAM is lovely and fast for write - but what about when you want to persist it - you know *save* something18:51
Azelphurpenguin42: yea so just do that in the background, it doesn't matter if it's slow :P18:52
Azelphurpenguin42: yea, writing to RAM I get 2.1GB/sec, writing to my SSD I get 245MB/sec  lol18:53
Azelphurusing dd to write 1GB pointless files xD18:54
penguin42Azelphur: Right yeh it'll be a lot faster - actually even better for small writes18:54
penguin42Azelphur: I'm not sure how you can cause writes to slowly trickle back; the RAID trick might work I think you might be able to setup priorities on the two devices in the RAID18:54
Azelphurmaybe18:55
Azelphuror just continually rsync the ram to the disk18:55
jacobwnot good18:55
Azelphur:<18:55
jacobwsome write caches are more bad than others18:55
jacobwit probably wouldn't been a problem for amount of writes concerned18:57
Azelphurmaybe there's a way I can tell the kernel to just cache EVERYTHING xD18:58
Azelphurlmfao, while googling I found this http://www.linuxatemyram.com/18:59
ali1234"how you can cause writes to slowly trickle back" - uxe ext4 or any modrn FS18:59
ali1234if you have 16GB you'll never do any reads from disk19:00
ali1234except for the first one19:00
ali1234adding an SSD will probably halve your boot time and shutdown time but that's it19:01
Azelphurali1234: but how do you make the kernel read it all in the first place? :P19:01
ali1234ureadahead19:01
MartijnVdSno U readahead19:01
penguin42to read the whole thing? dd if=.dev/sda of=/dev/null bs=1M19:02
penguin42 /19:02
Azelphurhaha19:03
AzelphurI don't think dd will trigger caching19:03
penguin42why?19:03
Azelphurbecause I'd imagine it's file based19:03
MartijnVdSit's not19:03
Azelphurah19:03
Azelphurbut yea, ureadahead sounds interesting19:03
penguin42I'm not sure that makes any difference19:03
penguin42ureadahead is a bit smarter and only reads bits that you're likely to use based on previous startup19:04
Azelphurhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootToRAM I think this page may even be what I want :o19:04
ali1234you want the moon on a stick19:06
Azelphuryep :D19:06
Azelphurali1234: are you still mining on your 5870 btw?19:07
ali1234yes19:07
Azelphurwhat hashrate you getting? :)19:07
ali1234no idea19:08
Azelphurhaha19:08
ali1234i don't watch it19:08
* Azelphur shrugs19:08
brad__hello19:10
penguin42hi19:11
brad__whats some good apps for ubuntu19:11
brad__?19:12
penguin42well, what do you do?19:13
brobostigonbrad__: what kind? and for what purpose. but it is down to opinion anyway.19:13
penguin42brad__: libreoffice is the office suite, there is the gimp image editor19:13
brad__like apps for sound19:14
brobostigonplayback or recording?19:14
brad__play like a graphic equlizer kind of thing19:14
brad__turn bass up on my sub and stuff19:14
brobostigonbrad__: vlc is a good example.19:14
brad__anything else ?19:15
Azelphurhttp://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-ramback-patch.html now this looks like what I want19:32
Azelphurat least, that's the filesystem anyway19:35
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StevenRso. alternative iso won't boot from usb20:54
StevenRworks fine when we burnt it to CD :)20:54
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dogmatic69anyone seen the bug where you have the screen to lock after x time, but when it locks the unity bar is still visible along with the top bar of what ever app had focus?21:09
dogmatic69Just noticed to day you see notifications too, got a gmail chat going (with system notifications enabled in chrome) and I could see that while the screen was locked21:10
penguin42dogmatic69: That's pretty serious given that the notifications can include private chat text22:26
dogmatic69I know22:27
dogmatic69I mentioned it before (the unity bar showing) and nobody took notice22:27
ali1234has anyone attempted to play lone survivor? it was updated the other day and now it at least loads up without crashing, but i can't figure out what to do and it seems very slow22:27
penguin42dogmatic69: Why don't you file a bug, mark it as security (stating why) and give us the bug number22:28
dogmatic69cool, I can try and take a photo of the bug in action.22:28
* dogmatic69 will be that guy... photo of the screen guy22:28
* bigcalm peeks in22:29
dogmatic69sup bigcalm22:29
bigcalmdogmatic69: sweet f a22:29
bigcalmTired22:29
dogmatic69penguin42: would that be compiz?22:29
dogmatic69bigcalm: cool. Im looking for NAS software :)22:30
* bigcalm replays Limbo for a bit22:30
penguin42dogmatic69: Not sure - I assume you're under Unity - I'd just file it against unity22:30
penguin42dogmatic69: With it locked can you interact with items on the toolbar22:30
dogmatic69penguin42: 12.04 std22:31
dogmatic69penguin42: found something 69608522:37
dogmatic69bug 69608522:37
lubotu3Launchpad bug 696085 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity shows on GDM lock" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/69608522:37
dogmatic69but claiming its fixed22:38
penguin42doesn't sound very fixed does it22:38
dogmatic69nope22:38
penguin42dogmatic69: Open a fresh one, and in the description say it sounds like that22:38
dogmatic69ye22:38
dogmatic69penguin42: I should mark it as security issue? it will be pvt then22:45
penguin42dogmatic69: I'm on bugcontrol so I think I can see it - but can you just verify, does it allow you to interact with the controls on the bar, or just see it?22:48
dogmatic69101415422:48
penguin42bug 101415422:48
lubotu3Error: Launchpad bug 1014154 could not be found22:48
penguin42bah - I wish it would at least give the link22:48
dogmatic69penguin42: just see it22:48
dogmatic69https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/101415422:49
penguin42bah, I thought it would let me see that22:49
penguin42it won't22:49
dogmatic69as soon as you move the mouse / enter something on the kb it goes normal22:49
dogmatic69but still, people transfer banking details / pw's etc via chat all the time22:49
penguin42yeh22:50
dogmatic69also, I was thinking22:50
dogmatic69imagine emailing your SO about shit at work / wanting to resign, and you lock while in gmail and the subject line is 'my boss is a huge d*ck'22:51
dogmatic69the subject line shows in the top bar of unity, which is viable22:51
penguin42dogmatic69: You get similar things where people fail to turn off chat when they connect to a projector to give a presentation22:52
dogmatic69yip22:52
dogmatic69or they leave skype on :D22:53
penguin42have seen a couple of great cases of that22:53
dogmatic69happens at every conference22:53
dogmatic69instantly speaker will have 400 chats running22:53
dogmatic69penguin42: were you able to see it?23:10
penguin42dogmatic69: No, wouldn't let me23:12
dogmatic69:/23:13
ali1234that's a well known bug anyway23:13
ali1234https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/77139123:14
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 771391 in compiz (Ubuntu Natty) "Unity launcher gets visible while screensaver is active" [High,Fix released]23:14
ali1234https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver/+bug/88660523:14
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 886605 in Compiz "Desktop, Launcher and menu bar still visible when screen locked" [High,Confirmed]23:14
penguin42dogmatic69: Do you have the package that's listed in fix released in that (as of a couple of days ago)23:15
dogmatic69which package is that?23:15
ali1234penguin42: it wasn't fixed a couple of days ago. it was fixed a couple of days +1 year ago23:15
ali1234and now it has broken again23:16
penguin42ali1234: Oh yeh - I didn't notice the year23:16
dogmatic69it has been like this since the day I installed 12.0423:16
ali1234unity is unbelievably bad for information leaking anyway23:17
penguin42dogmatic69: looking at the 886605 that ali1234 just posted it looks like there are a couple of guys working on it23:17
czajkowskimattt: aye so close...23:38

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