[07:11] <popey> morning
[07:15] <christel> morning!
[07:15] <popey>   TID  PRIO  USER     DISK READ  DISK WRITE  SWAPIN     IO>    COMMAND
[07:15] <popey>  4505 be/4 alan     1272.21 K/s    0.00 B/s  0.00 % 96.96 % firefox
[07:15] <popey> dear firefox, what on earth are you doing?
[07:22] <DJones> If anybody has missed the freenode notices, if you have alternate nicks you haven't used for 150 days you need to /nick to them this morning or they will be lost in a database prune
[09:35] <bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
[09:35] <Laney> greetings
[09:42] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:00] <bigcalm> What's the recommended imap server these days?
[10:01] <DJones> gmail :)
[10:02] <brobostigon> google apps*
[10:17] <dutchie> bigcalm: dovecot, if you want to host yourself
[10:18] <bigcalm> dutchie: that's what I've used in the past. Wondered if popularity had changed or not
[10:19] <dutchie> not afaik
[11:04]  * DJones wonders if its patch saturday for Ubuntu, 200 updates.... I'm sure there were only about 15 showing on Thursday when the machine was last on
[12:44] <dogmatic69> what is 'ubuntu 12.04 cloud'?
[15:11] <mattt> czajkowski: see the ireland game today?
[15:13] <zleap> its on later right
[15:14] <zleap> england game was good yesterday,  will be interesting to see how rooney fits in to the team now we have kinda shown we can play well without him
[15:16] <mattt> zleap: rugby :P
[15:17] <mattt> but yeah, great win for england yesterday
[15:17] <mattt> zleap: was also thinking the same thing about rooney ...
[15:17] <zleap> he will need to work extra hard,  I am sure he can fit in,  it just depends on opponents
[15:19] <mattt> i just want to see england play well
[15:20] <zleap> yeah
[15:21] <mattt> too much sports on right now, it's killing me
[15:23] <mattt> videos from djangocon europe 2012: http://www.klewel.com/conferences/djangocon-2012/
[15:25] <zleap> wait till the olympics
[15:25] <zleap> will have loads on then,
[15:25] <zleap> but that may leave more time for hacking on linux etc,   if we are bored with sport
[16:24] <knightwise> xws
[16:24] <knightwise> ah
[16:24] <knightwise> i'm back :)
[16:24] <knightwise> timed out there for a minute
[16:44] <Azelphur> This mouse really needs to be a trackball :( http://bit.ly/M438Eh
[16:45] <knightwise> would be pretty effective in a 1st person shooter :)
[16:46]  * knightwise working on putting a machine together to run old games under wine
[16:46] <knightwise> Half life and such :)
[16:46] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it needs 100 more buttons and be called a keyboard
[16:46] <knightwise> haha :)
[16:46] <Azelphur> hehe
[16:46] <knightwise> i still can't get used to gaming with a paddle and stuff
[16:46] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: you'd be surprised how many extra buttons I have
[16:46]  * knightwise is an old dude who used to frag with a cherry keyboard
[16:46] <knightwise> upside was : you could also slug your component to death with a keyboard like that
[16:47] <Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120613_033112.jpg is my current setup :P
[16:47] <knightwise> dude ! seriously ?
[16:47] <Azelphur> yup
[16:47] <knightwise> is that a mouse a trackball or both
[16:47] <Azelphur> trackball
[16:47] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I want fewer buttons, not more
[16:47] <MartijnVdS> also.. ewww backlight :)
[16:48] <Azelphur> haha
[16:48] <knightwise> logitech used to make pretty things
[16:48] <Azelphur> how are they not pretty :o
[16:48] <knightwise> hmm.. kinda klunky
[16:48] <awilkins> Naah, the Cherry keyboards have good switches but the only keyboards you can beat someone to death with AND keep using afterwards are the Model Ms
[16:48] <knightwise> looks like an IBM AS400 keyboard had a one night stand with a neonsign
[16:49]  * awilkins looks at the photo and dry-heaves at all the blue lights
[16:49] <Azelphur> knightwise: lol clunky :P, the keyboard itself runs embedded Linux
[16:49] <Azelphur> to control all the hardware in the keyboard xD
[16:49] <knightwise> allthough
[16:49] <knightwise> i must say : i do miss the backlights on my mac keyboards
[16:49] <knightwise> i have them on the notebooks but not on the stand alone keyboards
[16:49] <Azelphur> I love the backlights, my entire system has ended up black / blue which is pretty cool
[16:49]  * knightwise misses dad
[16:50] <knightwise> i always feel like i'm visiting a prostitute when i'm working with backlight
[16:50] <awilkins> I quite like the integrated overhead lamp on the Lenovos
[16:50]  * knightwise misses THAT (dad too , but ..)
[16:50] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: are those two statements connected? :P
[16:50] <knightwise> THAT is sweet
[16:50] <knightwise> MartijnVdS: nope , KW senior wasn't much of a gamer
[16:51] <knightwise> allthoug i did teach him how to swap cd's in a cd burner once :)
[16:51] <awilkins> I have a Dell at work with a backlit KB which seems a shame because the lights are never off
[16:51] <knightwise> he was pretty good at that
[16:51] <Azelphur> -.- I accidentally clicked print in thunderbird, clicked cancel and now it's spamming me with loading content for printing popups \o/
[16:51] <awilkins> I have a Saitek X36
[16:52] <awilkins> It makes me want one of their newer models... but then I think "What will I play on it?"
[16:52] <awilkins> No Tie Fighter, no X-Wing, no Wing Commander
[16:53] <awilkins> Realistic flight sims are OK, but I like space
[16:53] <awilkins> The last one I enjoyed was I-War 2 I suppose
[16:53] <awilkins> I liked flying the larger mass / more inertia ships in that
[16:54]  * knightwise is holding his old copy of Xwing vs tfighter right now :)
[16:54] <knightwise> along with doom3, Halflife 2 and return to castle wolfenstein
[16:54] <awilkins> And it had a better dogfight mechanic than X-Wing - the engines disrupted the shields, so you had a reason for getting behind your target, rather than just having to be really good at deflection shooting like in most other space combat sims
[16:55] <awilkins> If they mated EVE Online with I-War I'd be a happy bunny
[16:56] <awilkins> Although that new Mojang thing, 0x10c sounds very good too
[16:56] <awilkins> If a little like "Corewar in SPACE!!"
[16:56] <awilkins> What with the 16-bit CPU emulator
[16:58] <knightwise> there .. installing 12.04 on the older clunker. Its a p4 but its REALLY quiet .. ideal for the living room
[16:58] <mgdm> bigcalm: sheesh, that's comedy
[16:58] <knightwise> add some XBMC on it and Hoppa
[16:59] <bigcalm> mgdm: isn't it just?
[16:59] <mgdm> bigcalm: VTiger's that SugarCRM fork, ain't it?
[16:59] <mgdm> bigcalm: remind me to never ever ever go near it? :)
[16:59] <bigcalm> mgdm: no idea. I'm looking around for a membership thingy for a club my father is in to use
[16:59] <mgdm> Hmmm. I'd suggest VTiger was overkill, then
[17:00] <bigcalm> I guess so :)
[17:00] <mgdm> quite apart from the fact that it doesn't work
[17:00] <bigcalm> Any recommendations?
[17:00] <bigcalm> It works if you set display_errors to off
[17:01] <mgdm> that's like saying my car goes on fire, but it still works if I wear fireproof overalls
[17:01] <bigcalm> :D
[17:01] <bigcalm> Yes, I'm not defended it in the slightest
[17:03] <bigcalm> ing not ed
[17:03] <bigcalm> Anyway, the search continues
[17:11] <mgdm> do one in Django? :)
[17:11] <bigcalm> I need an off the shelf program as I don't have the time or will to maintain one
[17:11] <bigcalm> I also don't know python :)
[17:11] <bigcalm> About to look at CiviCRM. It appears to be a plugin for existing CMSs: http://civicrm.org/go/download
[17:15] <bigcalm> And why django?
[17:17] <mgdm> it's handy for making CRUD-type apps
[17:40] <AlanBell> bigcalm: when you say a "membership thingy" could you be a bit more specific?
[17:40] <AlanBell> is it for the clubs to sell memberships and track who is current, or somewhere for the members to do stuff?
[17:41] <AlanBell> if it is the latter then elgg might possibly be a platform to look at
[17:41] <bigcalm> AlanBell: the club currently has a MS Access database that 1 person has control over. They need a web interface to a central database to manage who the members are, their details and at some point payments
[17:42] <bigcalm> AlanBell: did you see the screen shots I tweeted to mgdm?
[17:42] <AlanBell> no
[17:42] <AlanBell> http://doc.openerp.com/v6.0/vi/technical_guide/membership.html
[17:43] <ali1234> heh, yes, an enterprise crm will be much easier for them to use
[17:43] <AlanBell> openerp is a potential option, but it is a bit overweight
[17:43] <bigcalm> AlanBell: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/214039064876294144
[17:43] <AlanBell> not that there is anything wrong with being a little bit overweight you understand
[17:44] <bigcalm> :D
[17:44]  * bigcalm rests a beer on his tum
[17:44] <AlanBell> err, that is broken bigcalm, it shouldn't do that
[17:44] <bigcalm> AlanBell: default install
[17:44] <bigcalm> :)
[17:44] <mgdm> indeed :)
[17:45] <bigcalm> From sauce
[17:45] <bigcalm> source
[17:45] <AlanBell> err, no that works just fine normally
[17:45]  * bigcalm shrugs
[17:45] <mgdm> I might try later
[17:46] <mgdm> I run with error_reporting = -1, so I see everything it's doing wrong
[17:46]  * mgdm -> food
[17:46] <AlanBell> not saying it is great code or anything, but http://biz.libertus.co.uk/vtiger/ is a default install
[17:52] <AlanBell> bigcalm: what is the output of echo PHP_SAPI;
[17:53] <bigcalm> AlanBell: in PHP or bash?
[17:53] <AlanBell> php
[17:54] <bigcalm> cli
[17:54] <bigcalm> I have to go for now. Back later :)
[17:54] <AlanBell> hmm, ok that is correct
[17:55] <christel> HELLO BIRTHDAY BOY
[17:55] <AlanBell> o/ christel :)
[17:56] <popey> Happy birthday AlanBell !
[17:56]  * AlanBell is feeling quite elderly
[17:57] <DJones> You can get arrested for doing that
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> DJones: what, feeling up the elderly?
[18:00] <DJones> MartijnVdS: Yep
[18:00] <DJones> My wife has been done 3 times for that
[18:01]  * AlanBell has birthday beer
[18:01] <AlanBell> http://www.jenningsbrewery.co.uk/beers/beer.aspx?bid=7
[18:02] <mattt> AlanBell: how old today?  :)
[18:03] <AlanBell> 0x25
[18:04] <AlanBell> it sounds good in hex
[18:04] <mattt> AlanBell: ah, still young
[18:06] <mattt> happy bday tho :_
[18:06] <mattt> :P
[18:06] <AlanBell> :)
[18:08] <penguin42> AlanBell: Happy bday
[18:09] <AlanBell> thanks
[18:28]  * StevenR wishes it didn't take quite so long to *start* an ubuntu install
[18:28] <StevenR> (we've spent several hours faffing with different isos, re-imaging usb sticks, etc.)
[18:29] <MartijnVdS> StevenR: class 10 SD + fast reader + SSD
[18:30] <Azelphur> StevenR: are you deploying lots of Ubuntu installs on similar machines?
[18:31] <StevenR> Azelphur: no. I'm just trying to install *one*
[18:32] <StevenR> MartijnVdS: eventually, we'll get installing on the SSDs
[18:32] <StevenR> but it appears to be terribly hard to create a usb stick that both supports raid, and will boot.
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> why would you do raid if you have btrfs?
[18:36] <jacobw> because it sounds cooler?
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: meh
[18:40] <StevenR> MartijnVdS: btrfs?
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> btrfs!
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> StevenR: ask popey about RAID and btrfs
[18:42] <Azelphur> has anyone ever managed to set something up where the whole of / is loaded into ram?
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: long ago
[18:42] <Azelphur> I want to do it :P
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: (the thing I did just never pivoted out of the initramfs)
[18:42] <Azelphur> I have a 6.22GB Root and 12GB of RAM so, should be possible :D
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> ah
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> that'll be harder
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> running a real distro on there :)
[18:43] <Azelphur> yea, I actually wanna run a real distro :P
[18:43] <Azelphur> ie, XUbuntu
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> upgrades will be annoying
[18:43] <Azelphur> why?
[18:43] <penguin42> Azelphur: You might try something evil like a RAID1 between RAM and the disk and then take the disk out of the RAID
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: you scare us
[18:44] <Azelphur> haha
[18:44] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Trust me, I can always find the most insane way of combining any two pieces of technology
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: XT + smart phone
[18:44] <jacobw> the raid1 thing actually sounds like a good idea, if you don't remove the disk
[18:45] <penguin42> XT?
[18:45] <penguin42> jacobw: Yeh I think there might be better ways of just turning up the disk caching - I mean you shouldn't need to do that just to increase disc caching
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_XT
[18:46] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh, that XT - hmm yes that should be doable - do you want the XT emulated on the smartphone or something more insane?
[18:46] <Azelphur> I mean to get another 12GB RAM it's gonna cost me like £90, much less than a high performance SSD and much faster
[18:46] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: My most recent madness is https://www.redhat.com/archives/linux-lvm/2012-April/msg00022.html
[18:46] <jacobw> i'm not sure why he'd want to do this
[18:46] <Azelphur> jacobw: because it's way faster/cooler than a SSD?
[18:46] <penguin42> Azelphur: Yeh keep adding RAM, but you shouldn't need to do anything to persuade the kernel to use it to cache; you just need to do something to cause all the stuff to get read in early
[18:47] <penguin42> Azelphur: Write latency will still suck when it actually wants to sync to the disk
[18:47] <Azelphur> yea
[18:48] <penguin42> Azelphur: The thing is for the same money a small SSD might give you a bigger perf improvement (depending what you're doing)
[18:49] <Azelphur> really? Isn't ram astronomically faster than any SSD
[18:49]  * jacobw thinks about access times
[18:49] <penguin42> Azelphur: Ish - but it's rare you can get away without any writes at all
[18:51] <Azelphur> penguin42: I mean, I just tried writing a file to /dev/shm
[18:51] <Azelphur> and got 1.9GB/sec
[18:51] <penguin42> Azelphur: Oh yeh, RAM is lovely and fast for write - but what about when you want to persist it - you know *save* something
[18:52] <Azelphur> penguin42: yea so just do that in the background, it doesn't matter if it's slow :P
[18:53] <Azelphur> penguin42: yea, writing to RAM I get 2.1GB/sec, writing to my SSD I get 245MB/sec  lol
[18:54] <Azelphur> using dd to write 1GB pointless files xD
[18:54] <penguin42> Azelphur: Right yeh it'll be a lot faster - actually even better for small writes
[18:54] <penguin42> Azelphur: I'm not sure how you can cause writes to slowly trickle back; the RAID trick might work I think you might be able to setup priorities on the two devices in the RAID
[18:55] <Azelphur> maybe
[18:55] <Azelphur> or just continually rsync the ram to the disk
[18:55] <jacobw> not good
[18:55] <Azelphur> :<
[18:55] <jacobw> some write caches are more bad than others
[18:57] <jacobw> it probably wouldn't been a problem for amount of writes concerned
[18:58] <Azelphur> maybe there's a way I can tell the kernel to just cache EVERYTHING xD
[18:59] <Azelphur> lmfao, while googling I found this http://www.linuxatemyram.com/
[18:59] <ali1234> "how you can cause writes to slowly trickle back" - uxe ext4 or any modrn FS
[19:00] <ali1234> if you have 16GB you'll never do any reads from disk
[19:00] <ali1234> except for the first one
[19:01] <ali1234> adding an SSD will probably halve your boot time and shutdown time but that's it
[19:01] <Azelphur> ali1234: but how do you make the kernel read it all in the first place? :P
[19:01] <ali1234> ureadahead
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> no U readahead
[19:02] <penguin42> to read the whole thing? dd if=.dev/sda of=/dev/null bs=1M
[19:02] <penguin42>  /
[19:03] <Azelphur> haha
[19:03] <Azelphur> I don't think dd will trigger caching
[19:03] <penguin42> why?
[19:03] <Azelphur> because I'd imagine it's file based
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> it's not
[19:03] <Azelphur> ah
[19:03] <Azelphur> but yea, ureadahead sounds interesting
[19:03] <penguin42> I'm not sure that makes any difference
[19:04] <penguin42> ureadahead is a bit smarter and only reads bits that you're likely to use based on previous startup
[19:04] <Azelphur> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootToRAM I think this page may even be what I want :o
[19:06] <ali1234> you want the moon on a stick
[19:06] <Azelphur> yep :D
[19:07] <Azelphur> ali1234: are you still mining on your 5870 btw?
[19:07] <ali1234> yes
[19:07] <Azelphur> what hashrate you getting? :)
[19:08] <ali1234> no idea
[19:08] <Azelphur> haha
[19:08] <ali1234> i don't watch it
[19:08]  * Azelphur shrugs
[19:10] <brad__> hello
[19:11] <penguin42> hi
[19:11] <brad__> whats some good apps for ubuntu
[19:12] <brad__> ?
[19:13] <penguin42> well, what do you do?
[19:13] <brobostigon> brad__: what kind? and for what purpose. but it is down to opinion anyway.
[19:13] <penguin42> brad__: libreoffice is the office suite, there is the gimp image editor
[19:14] <brad__> like apps for sound
[19:14] <brobostigon> playback or recording?
[19:14] <brad__> play like a graphic equlizer kind of thing
[19:14] <brad__> turn bass up on my sub and stuff
[19:14] <brobostigon> brad__: vlc is a good example.
[19:15] <brad__> anything else ?
[19:32] <Azelphur> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-ramback-patch.html now this looks like what I want
[19:35] <Azelphur> at least, that's the filesystem anyway
[20:54] <StevenR> so. alternative iso won't boot from usb
[20:54] <StevenR> works fine when we burnt it to CD :)
[21:09] <dogmatic69> anyone seen the bug where you have the screen to lock after x time, but when it locks the unity bar is still visible along with the top bar of what ever app had focus?
[21:10] <dogmatic69> Just noticed to day you see notifications too, got a gmail chat going (with system notifications enabled in chrome) and I could see that while the screen was locked
[22:26] <penguin42> dogmatic69: That's pretty serious given that the notifications can include private chat text
[22:27] <dogmatic69> I know
[22:27] <dogmatic69> I mentioned it before (the unity bar showing) and nobody took notice
[22:27] <ali1234> has anyone attempted to play lone survivor? it was updated the other day and now it at least loads up without crashing, but i can't figure out what to do and it seems very slow
[22:28] <penguin42> dogmatic69: Why don't you file a bug, mark it as security (stating why) and give us the bug number
[22:28] <dogmatic69> cool, I can try and take a photo of the bug in action.
[22:28]  * dogmatic69 will be that guy... photo of the screen guy
[22:29]  * bigcalm peeks in
[22:29] <dogmatic69> sup bigcalm
[22:29] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: sweet f a
[22:29] <bigcalm> Tired
[22:29] <dogmatic69> penguin42: would that be compiz?
[22:30] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: cool. Im looking for NAS software :)
[22:30]  * bigcalm replays Limbo for a bit
[22:30] <penguin42> dogmatic69: Not sure - I assume you're under Unity - I'd just file it against unity
[22:30] <penguin42> dogmatic69: With it locked can you interact with items on the toolbar
[22:31] <dogmatic69> penguin42: 12.04 std
[22:37] <dogmatic69> penguin42: found something 696085
[22:37] <dogmatic69> bug 696085
[22:38] <dogmatic69> but claiming its fixed
[22:38] <penguin42> doesn't sound very fixed does it
[22:38] <dogmatic69> nope
[22:38] <penguin42> dogmatic69: Open a fresh one, and in the description say it sounds like that
[22:38] <dogmatic69> ye
[22:45] <dogmatic69> penguin42: I should mark it as security issue? it will be pvt then
[22:48] <penguin42> dogmatic69: I'm on bugcontrol so I think I can see it - but can you just verify, does it allow you to interact with the controls on the bar, or just see it?
[22:48] <dogmatic69> 1014154
[22:48] <penguin42> bug 1014154
[22:48] <penguin42> bah - I wish it would at least give the link
[22:48] <dogmatic69> penguin42: just see it
[22:49] <dogmatic69> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1014154
[22:49] <penguin42> bah, I thought it would let me see that
[22:49] <penguin42> it won't
[22:49] <dogmatic69> as soon as you move the mouse / enter something on the kb it goes normal
[22:49] <dogmatic69> but still, people transfer banking details / pw's etc via chat all the time
[22:50] <penguin42> yeh
[22:50] <dogmatic69> also, I was thinking
[22:51] <dogmatic69> imagine emailing your SO about shit at work / wanting to resign, and you lock while in gmail and the subject line is 'my boss is a huge d*ck'
[22:51] <dogmatic69> the subject line shows in the top bar of unity, which is viable
[22:52] <penguin42> dogmatic69: You get similar things where people fail to turn off chat when they connect to a projector to give a presentation
[22:52] <dogmatic69> yip
[22:53] <dogmatic69> or they leave skype on :D
[22:53] <penguin42> have seen a couple of great cases of that
[22:53] <dogmatic69> happens at every conference
[22:53] <dogmatic69> instantly speaker will have 400 chats running
[23:10] <dogmatic69> penguin42: were you able to see it?
[23:12] <penguin42> dogmatic69: No, wouldn't let me
[23:13] <dogmatic69> :/
[23:13] <ali1234> that's a well known bug anyway
[23:14] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/771391
[23:14] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver/+bug/886605
[23:15] <penguin42> dogmatic69: Do you have the package that's listed in fix released in that (as of a couple of days ago)
[23:15] <dogmatic69> which package is that?
[23:15] <ali1234> penguin42: it wasn't fixed a couple of days ago. it was fixed a couple of days +1 year ago
[23:16] <ali1234> and now it has broken again
[23:16] <penguin42> ali1234: Oh yeh - I didn't notice the year
[23:16] <dogmatic69> it has been like this since the day I installed 12.04
[23:17] <ali1234> unity is unbelievably bad for information leaking anyway
[23:17] <penguin42> dogmatic69: looking at the 886605 that ali1234 just posted it looks like there are a couple of guys working on it
[23:38] <czajkowski> mattt: aye so close...