=== VemSkaSegra is now known as LjL === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [07:11] morning [07:15] morning! [07:15] TID PRIO USER DISK READ DISK WRITE SWAPIN IO> COMMAND [07:15] 4505 be/4 alan 1272.21 K/s 0.00 B/s 0.00 % 96.96 % firefox [07:15] dear firefox, what on earth are you doing? [07:22] If anybody has missed the freenode notices, if you have alternate nicks you haven't used for 150 days you need to /nick to them this morning or they will be lost in a database prune === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away === Nafallo is now known as Nafallo_ === Nafallo_ is now known as Nafallo [09:35] Morning peeps :) [09:35] greetings [09:42] good morning everyone, [10:00] What's the recommended imap server these days? [10:01] gmail :) [10:02] google apps* [10:17] bigcalm: dovecot, if you want to host yourself [10:18] dutchie: that's what I've used in the past. Wondered if popularity had changed or not [10:19] not afaik === bigcalm is now known as tig === tig is now known as bigcalm [11:04] * DJones wonders if its patch saturday for Ubuntu, 200 updates.... I'm sure there were only about 15 showing on Thursday when the machine was last on [12:44] what is 'ubuntu 12.04 cloud'? === webpigeo1 is now known as webpigeon === Seeker` is now known as Guest61922 === issyl0_ is now known as Guest94176 === christel_ is now known as christel === Guest94176 is now known as issyl0 [15:11] czajkowski: see the ireland game today? [15:13] its on later right [15:14] england game was good yesterday, will be interesting to see how rooney fits in to the team now we have kinda shown we can play well without him [15:16] zleap: rugby :P [15:17] but yeah, great win for england yesterday [15:17] zleap: was also thinking the same thing about rooney ... [15:17] he will need to work extra hard, I am sure he can fit in, it just depends on opponents [15:19] i just want to see england play well [15:20] yeah [15:21] too much sports on right now, it's killing me [15:23] videos from djangocon europe 2012: http://www.klewel.com/conferences/djangocon-2012/ [15:25] wait till the olympics [15:25] will have loads on then, [15:25] but that may leave more time for hacking on linux etc, if we are bored with sport [16:24] xws [16:24] ah [16:24] i'm back :) [16:24] timed out there for a minute [16:44] This mouse really needs to be a trackball :( http://bit.ly/M438Eh [16:45] would be pretty effective in a 1st person shooter :) [16:46] * knightwise working on putting a machine together to run old games under wine [16:46] Half life and such :) [16:46] Azelphur: it needs 100 more buttons and be called a keyboard [16:46] haha :) [16:46] hehe [16:46] i still can't get used to gaming with a paddle and stuff [16:46] MartijnVdS: you'd be surprised how many extra buttons I have [16:46] * knightwise is an old dude who used to frag with a cherry keyboard [16:46] upside was : you could also slug your component to death with a keyboard like that [16:47] https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120613_033112.jpg is my current setup :P [16:47] dude ! seriously ? [16:47] yup [16:47] is that a mouse a trackball or both [16:47] trackball [16:47] Azelphur: I want fewer buttons, not more [16:47] also.. ewww backlight :) [16:48] haha [16:48] logitech used to make pretty things [16:48] how are they not pretty :o [16:48] hmm.. kinda klunky [16:48] Naah, the Cherry keyboards have good switches but the only keyboards you can beat someone to death with AND keep using afterwards are the Model Ms [16:48] looks like an IBM AS400 keyboard had a one night stand with a neonsign [16:49] * awilkins looks at the photo and dry-heaves at all the blue lights [16:49] knightwise: lol clunky :P, the keyboard itself runs embedded Linux [16:49] to control all the hardware in the keyboard xD [16:49] allthough [16:49] i must say : i do miss the backlights on my mac keyboards [16:49] i have them on the notebooks but not on the stand alone keyboards [16:49] I love the backlights, my entire system has ended up black / blue which is pretty cool [16:49] * knightwise misses dad [16:50] i always feel like i'm visiting a prostitute when i'm working with backlight [16:50] I quite like the integrated overhead lamp on the Lenovos [16:50] * knightwise misses THAT (dad too , but ..) [16:50] knightwise: are those two statements connected? :P [16:50] THAT is sweet [16:50] MartijnVdS: nope , KW senior wasn't much of a gamer [16:51] allthoug i did teach him how to swap cd's in a cd burner once :) [16:51] I have a Dell at work with a backlit KB which seems a shame because the lights are never off [16:51] he was pretty good at that [16:51] -.- I accidentally clicked print in thunderbird, clicked cancel and now it's spamming me with loading content for printing popups \o/ [16:51] I have a Saitek X36 [16:52] It makes me want one of their newer models... but then I think "What will I play on it?" [16:52] No Tie Fighter, no X-Wing, no Wing Commander [16:53] Realistic flight sims are OK, but I like space [16:53] The last one I enjoyed was I-War 2 I suppose [16:53] I liked flying the larger mass / more inertia ships in that [16:54] * knightwise is holding his old copy of Xwing vs tfighter right now :) [16:54] along with doom3, Halflife 2 and return to castle wolfenstein [16:54] And it had a better dogfight mechanic than X-Wing - the engines disrupted the shields, so you had a reason for getting behind your target, rather than just having to be really good at deflection shooting like in most other space combat sims [16:55] If they mated EVE Online with I-War I'd be a happy bunny [16:56] Although that new Mojang thing, 0x10c sounds very good too [16:56] If a little like "Corewar in SPACE!!" [16:56] What with the 16-bit CPU emulator [16:58] there .. installing 12.04 on the older clunker. Its a p4 but its REALLY quiet .. ideal for the living room [16:58] bigcalm: sheesh, that's comedy [16:58] add some XBMC on it and Hoppa [16:59] mgdm: isn't it just? [16:59] bigcalm: VTiger's that SugarCRM fork, ain't it? [16:59] bigcalm: remind me to never ever ever go near it? :) [16:59] mgdm: no idea. I'm looking around for a membership thingy for a club my father is in to use [16:59] Hmmm. I'd suggest VTiger was overkill, then [17:00] I guess so :) [17:00] quite apart from the fact that it doesn't work [17:00] Any recommendations? [17:00] It works if you set display_errors to off [17:01] that's like saying my car goes on fire, but it still works if I wear fireproof overalls [17:01] :D [17:01] Yes, I'm not defended it in the slightest [17:03] ing not ed [17:03] Anyway, the search continues [17:11] do one in Django? :) [17:11] I need an off the shelf program as I don't have the time or will to maintain one [17:11] I also don't know python :) [17:11] About to look at CiviCRM. It appears to be a plugin for existing CMSs: http://civicrm.org/go/download [17:15] And why django? [17:17] it's handy for making CRUD-type apps [17:40] bigcalm: when you say a "membership thingy" could you be a bit more specific? [17:40] is it for the clubs to sell memberships and track who is current, or somewhere for the members to do stuff? [17:41] if it is the latter then elgg might possibly be a platform to look at [17:41] AlanBell: the club currently has a MS Access database that 1 person has control over. They need a web interface to a central database to manage who the members are, their details and at some point payments [17:42] AlanBell: did you see the screen shots I tweeted to mgdm? [17:42] no [17:42] http://doc.openerp.com/v6.0/vi/technical_guide/membership.html [17:43] heh, yes, an enterprise crm will be much easier for them to use [17:43] openerp is a potential option, but it is a bit overweight [17:43] AlanBell: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/214039064876294144 [17:43] not that there is anything wrong with being a little bit overweight you understand [17:44] :D [17:44] * bigcalm rests a beer on his tum [17:44] err, that is broken bigcalm, it shouldn't do that [17:44] AlanBell: default install [17:44] :) [17:44] indeed :) [17:45] From sauce [17:45] source [17:45] err, no that works just fine normally === nothingspecial is now known as rastamouse [17:45] * bigcalm shrugs [17:45] I might try later [17:46] I run with error_reporting = -1, so I see everything it's doing wrong [17:46] * mgdm -> food [17:46] not saying it is great code or anything, but http://biz.libertus.co.uk/vtiger/ is a default install [17:52] bigcalm: what is the output of echo PHP_SAPI; [17:53] AlanBell: in PHP or bash? [17:53] php [17:54] cli [17:54] I have to go for now. Back later :) [17:54] hmm, ok that is correct [17:55] HELLO BIRTHDAY BOY [17:55] o/ christel :) [17:56] Happy birthday AlanBell ! [17:56] * AlanBell is feeling quite elderly [17:57] You can get arrested for doing that [18:00] DJones: what, feeling up the elderly? [18:00] MartijnVdS: Yep [18:00] My wife has been done 3 times for that [18:01] * AlanBell has birthday beer [18:01] http://www.jenningsbrewery.co.uk/beers/beer.aspx?bid=7 [18:02] AlanBell: how old today? :) [18:03] 0x25 [18:04] it sounds good in hex [18:04] AlanBell: ah, still young [18:06] happy bday tho :_ [18:06] :P [18:06] :) [18:08] AlanBell: Happy bday [18:09] thanks [18:28] * StevenR wishes it didn't take quite so long to *start* an ubuntu install [18:28] (we've spent several hours faffing with different isos, re-imaging usb sticks, etc.) [18:29] StevenR: class 10 SD + fast reader + SSD [18:30] StevenR: are you deploying lots of Ubuntu installs on similar machines? [18:31] Azelphur: no. I'm just trying to install *one* [18:32] MartijnVdS: eventually, we'll get installing on the SSDs [18:32] but it appears to be terribly hard to create a usb stick that both supports raid, and will boot. [18:34] why would you do raid if you have btrfs? [18:36] because it sounds cooler? [18:36] jacobw: meh [18:40] MartijnVdS: btrfs? [18:40] btrfs! [18:40] StevenR: ask popey about RAID and btrfs [18:42] has anyone ever managed to set something up where the whole of / is loaded into ram? [18:42] Azelphur: long ago [18:42] I want to do it :P [18:42] Azelphur: (the thing I did just never pivoted out of the initramfs) [18:42] I have a 6.22GB Root and 12GB of RAM so, should be possible :D [18:42] ah [18:42] that'll be harder [18:43] running a real distro on there :) [18:43] yea, I actually wanna run a real distro :P [18:43] ie, XUbuntu [18:43] upgrades will be annoying [18:43] why? [18:43] Azelphur: You might try something evil like a RAID1 between RAM and the disk and then take the disk out of the RAID [18:43] penguin42: you scare us [18:44] haha [18:44] MartijnVdS: Trust me, I can always find the most insane way of combining any two pieces of technology [18:44] penguin42: XT + smart phone [18:44] the raid1 thing actually sounds like a good idea, if you don't remove the disk [18:45] XT? [18:45] jacobw: Yeh I think there might be better ways of just turning up the disk caching - I mean you shouldn't need to do that just to increase disc caching [18:45] penguin42: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_XT [18:46] MartijnVdS: Oh, that XT - hmm yes that should be doable - do you want the XT emulated on the smartphone or something more insane? [18:46] I mean to get another 12GB RAM it's gonna cost me like £90, much less than a high performance SSD and much faster [18:46] MartijnVdS: My most recent madness is https://www.redhat.com/archives/linux-lvm/2012-April/msg00022.html [18:46] i'm not sure why he'd want to do this [18:46] jacobw: because it's way faster/cooler than a SSD? [18:46] Azelphur: Yeh keep adding RAM, but you shouldn't need to do anything to persuade the kernel to use it to cache; you just need to do something to cause all the stuff to get read in early [18:47] Azelphur: Write latency will still suck when it actually wants to sync to the disk [18:47] yea [18:48] Azelphur: The thing is for the same money a small SSD might give you a bigger perf improvement (depending what you're doing) [18:49] really? Isn't ram astronomically faster than any SSD [18:49] * jacobw thinks about access times [18:49] Azelphur: Ish - but it's rare you can get away without any writes at all [18:51] penguin42: I mean, I just tried writing a file to /dev/shm [18:51] and got 1.9GB/sec [18:51] Azelphur: Oh yeh, RAM is lovely and fast for write - but what about when you want to persist it - you know *save* something [18:52] penguin42: yea so just do that in the background, it doesn't matter if it's slow :P [18:53] penguin42: yea, writing to RAM I get 2.1GB/sec, writing to my SSD I get 245MB/sec lol [18:54] using dd to write 1GB pointless files xD [18:54] Azelphur: Right yeh it'll be a lot faster - actually even better for small writes [18:54] Azelphur: I'm not sure how you can cause writes to slowly trickle back; the RAID trick might work I think you might be able to setup priorities on the two devices in the RAID [18:55] maybe [18:55] or just continually rsync the ram to the disk [18:55] not good [18:55] :< [18:55] some write caches are more bad than others [18:57] it probably wouldn't been a problem for amount of writes concerned [18:58] maybe there's a way I can tell the kernel to just cache EVERYTHING xD [18:59] lmfao, while googling I found this http://www.linuxatemyram.com/ [18:59] "how you can cause writes to slowly trickle back" - uxe ext4 or any modrn FS [19:00] if you have 16GB you'll never do any reads from disk [19:00] except for the first one [19:01] adding an SSD will probably halve your boot time and shutdown time but that's it [19:01] ali1234: but how do you make the kernel read it all in the first place? :P [19:01] ureadahead [19:01] no U readahead [19:02] to read the whole thing? dd if=.dev/sda of=/dev/null bs=1M [19:02] / [19:03] haha [19:03] I don't think dd will trigger caching [19:03] why? [19:03] because I'd imagine it's file based [19:03] it's not [19:03] ah [19:03] but yea, ureadahead sounds interesting [19:03] I'm not sure that makes any difference [19:04] ureadahead is a bit smarter and only reads bits that you're likely to use based on previous startup [19:04] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootToRAM I think this page may even be what I want :o [19:06] you want the moon on a stick [19:06] yep :D [19:07] ali1234: are you still mining on your 5870 btw? [19:07] yes [19:07] what hashrate you getting? :) [19:08] no idea [19:08] haha [19:08] i don't watch it [19:08] * Azelphur shrugs [19:10] hello [19:11] hi [19:11] whats some good apps for ubuntu [19:12] ? [19:13] well, what do you do? [19:13] brad__: what kind? and for what purpose. but it is down to opinion anyway. [19:13] brad__: libreoffice is the office suite, there is the gimp image editor [19:14] like apps for sound [19:14] playback or recording? [19:14] play like a graphic equlizer kind of thing [19:14] turn bass up on my sub and stuff [19:14] brad__: vlc is a good example. [19:15] anything else ? [19:32] http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-ramback-patch.html now this looks like what I want [19:35] at least, that's the filesystem anyway === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte === webpigeo1 is now known as webpigeon [20:54] so. alternative iso won't boot from usb [20:54] works fine when we burnt it to CD :) === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [21:09] anyone seen the bug where you have the screen to lock after x time, but when it locks the unity bar is still visible along with the top bar of what ever app had focus? [21:10] Just noticed to day you see notifications too, got a gmail chat going (with system notifications enabled in chrome) and I could see that while the screen was locked [22:26] dogmatic69: That's pretty serious given that the notifications can include private chat text [22:27] I know [22:27] I mentioned it before (the unity bar showing) and nobody took notice [22:27] has anyone attempted to play lone survivor? it was updated the other day and now it at least loads up without crashing, but i can't figure out what to do and it seems very slow [22:28] dogmatic69: Why don't you file a bug, mark it as security (stating why) and give us the bug number [22:28] cool, I can try and take a photo of the bug in action. [22:28] * dogmatic69 will be that guy... photo of the screen guy [22:29] * bigcalm peeks in [22:29] sup bigcalm [22:29] dogmatic69: sweet f a [22:29] Tired [22:29] penguin42: would that be compiz? [22:30] bigcalm: cool. Im looking for NAS software :) [22:30] * bigcalm replays Limbo for a bit [22:30] dogmatic69: Not sure - I assume you're under Unity - I'd just file it against unity [22:30] dogmatic69: With it locked can you interact with items on the toolbar [22:31] penguin42: 12.04 std [22:37] penguin42: found something 696085 [22:37] bug 696085 [22:37] Launchpad bug 696085 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity shows on GDM lock" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/696085 [22:38] but claiming its fixed [22:38] doesn't sound very fixed does it [22:38] nope [22:38] dogmatic69: Open a fresh one, and in the description say it sounds like that [22:38] ye [22:45] penguin42: I should mark it as security issue? it will be pvt then [22:48] dogmatic69: I'm on bugcontrol so I think I can see it - but can you just verify, does it allow you to interact with the controls on the bar, or just see it? [22:48] 1014154 [22:48] bug 1014154 [22:48] Error: Launchpad bug 1014154 could not be found [22:48] bah - I wish it would at least give the link [22:48] penguin42: just see it [22:49] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1014154 [22:49] bah, I thought it would let me see that [22:49] it won't [22:49] as soon as you move the mouse / enter something on the kb it goes normal [22:49] but still, people transfer banking details / pw's etc via chat all the time [22:50] yeh [22:50] also, I was thinking [22:51] imagine emailing your SO about shit at work / wanting to resign, and you lock while in gmail and the subject line is 'my boss is a huge d*ck' [22:51] the subject line shows in the top bar of unity, which is viable [22:52] dogmatic69: You get similar things where people fail to turn off chat when they connect to a projector to give a presentation [22:52] yip [22:53] or they leave skype on :D [22:53] have seen a couple of great cases of that [22:53] happens at every conference [22:53] instantly speaker will have 400 chats running [23:10] penguin42: were you able to see it? [23:12] dogmatic69: No, wouldn't let me [23:13] :/ [23:13] that's a well known bug anyway [23:14] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/771391 [23:14] Ubuntu bug 771391 in compiz (Ubuntu Natty) "Unity launcher gets visible while screensaver is active" [High,Fix released] [23:14] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver/+bug/886605 [23:14] Ubuntu bug 886605 in Compiz "Desktop, Launcher and menu bar still visible when screen locked" [High,Confirmed] [23:15] dogmatic69: Do you have the package that's listed in fix released in that (as of a couple of days ago) [23:15] which package is that? [23:15] penguin42: it wasn't fixed a couple of days ago. it was fixed a couple of days +1 year ago [23:16] and now it has broken again [23:16] ali1234: Oh yeh - I didn't notice the year [23:16] it has been like this since the day I installed 12.04 [23:17] unity is unbelievably bad for information leaking anyway [23:17] dogmatic69: looking at the 886605 that ali1234 just posted it looks like there are a couple of guys working on it [23:38] mattt: aye so close...