[00:18] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Have you checked out the system-compositor-scratchpad yet? Is it enough to unblock you?
[00:18] <robert_ancell> RAOF, not yet, but planning to this afternoon
[00:19] <RAOF> Cool
[04:51] <pitti> Good morning
[05:08] <robert_ancell> RAOF, how close are we to X 1.12 in quantal?
[05:09] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Pretty close; it's all staged in a PPA, and could be uploaded to quantal-proposed pretty much any time, I think.
[05:13] <RAOF> The compositor also wants mesa 8.1, though, which requires a bit more work.
[05:28] <robert_ancell> RAOF, so it's ok that using that PPA removes all the other video drivers right?
[05:29] <RAOF> I don't think it should; it didn't here.
[05:29] <RAOF> Did you add ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/x-staging as well? The email (should have) said that's also required.
[05:29] <robert_ancell> RAOF, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1046714/
[05:30] <robert_ancell> ah, that might be it
[05:30] <RAOF> Hah. And I suddenly notice that I need to bump the version on xserver-xorg-video-intel, so that it actually gets installed ;)
[05:31] <robert_ancell> RAOF, oh, who do you have to kick in nouveau to make some releases?  so there is a version right, but no release files?
[05:32] <RAOF> I guess we could prod darktama. There's not even a version, really.
[05:32] <RAOF> I *have* prodded a bit, but nothing's come out of it.
[05:33] <robert_ancell> RAOF, so where did the 0.0.16 come from?
[05:33] <RAOF> Kernel ABI.
[05:33] <robert_ancell> oh
[05:33] <RAOF> Also, thin air.
[05:33] <RAOF> I mean, their configure.ac *does* define the version as 0.0.16, but it has done for a year or so, and it's never been lower than 0.0.15 IIRC.
[05:34] <robert_ancell> It's amazing running through the versions page how many upstreams a completely lacking in any information where they make releases, or have release files, or even appear to exist
[05:34] <RAOF> Heh
[05:34] <robert_ancell> try finding python pam
[05:43] <glatzor> morning pitti
[05:43] <glatzor> how are you?
[05:43] <pitti> hey glatzor
[05:43] <pitti> glatzor: I'm great, thanks! just a bit tired
[05:43] <glatzor> did you enjoy your sunny weekend?
[05:44] <pitti> absolutely, yes; we had some friends over
[05:44] <glatzor> pitti, do you know anything about the porting status of pyxdg?
[05:44] <pitti> they are still here, in fact, leaving in an hour
[05:44] <glatzor> pitti, Oh, then see you later :)
[05:44] <pitti> glatzor: I don't; I just removed it from apport, and use the ini parser now
[05:44] <pitti> we did a bike tour, went swimming, and watched the game in a Biergarten last night
[05:44] <pitti> veery relaxing :)
[05:45] <glatzor> pitti, which one? the standard one of python?
[05:45] <pitti> glatzor: how are you? having some free time now?
[05:45] <pitti> glatzor: yes, configparser
[05:45] <glatzor> pitti, it is get less and less :) although I am currenlty on my small sabatical - I will leave for a longer trip on Saturday. So much to prepare :)
[05:46] <glatzor> pitti, and does it handle encoding issues well?
[05:54] <pitti> glatzor: I'm not quite sure, but I would expect it to work just like any other python -- it certainly has an encoding argument somewhere?
[05:55]  * pitti -> breakfast, bbl
[07:57] <BigWhale> Good Morning
[08:13] <didrocks> hey hey
[08:13] <seb128> hey
[08:13] <seb128> didrocks, lut, how is London?
[08:14] <didrocks> seb128: rainy, as expected :)
[08:32] <Laney> morning
[08:35] <Sweetshark> bonjours a tous!
[08:39] <Laney> ah, london!
[08:40] <Laney> the packaging masterclass?
[08:47] <Sweetshark> jibel: got my key to the qa-lab. now what do I do with it? ;)
[08:49] <ritz> seb128 , pingus , any suggestion wrt https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/956855 ?
[08:49] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 956855 in gtk+3.0 "GtkFileChooserButton dialog stretched, when user has a really long name saved to bookmark " [Low,Triaged]
[08:50] <glatzor> morning mvo
[08:50] <seb128> Laney, Sweetshark, glatzor: hey
[08:50] <glatzor> mvo, have you looked at porting axi and especially pyxdg to python3?
[08:50] <glatzor> morning seb128 ! how are you?
[08:50] <glatzor> seb128, you enjoyed your weekend?
[08:51] <ritz> seb128, customer would like this fix to be implemented asap, looking for suggestions for the best options to do so.
[08:52] <seb128> ritz, hey, I'm looking to it, I would like to get upstream review, the code you drop was probably added for a reason
[08:52] <seb128> glatzor, I'm good thanks, my w.e was nice ... how was yours?
[08:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
[08:53] <ritz> hmmm
[08:53] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128, how are you?
[08:53] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good, thanks! How are you?
[08:53] <seb128> chrisccoulson, had a good w.e?
[08:54] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. the weekend was ok - we went to west midlands safari park yesterday
[08:54] <seb128> safari park in the u.k? aren't those working on incompatible weathers, ;-)
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[08:58] <glatzor> seb128, mine was great too.
[08:59] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i wish there was a way to make objdump more useful with binaries that have a separate debug file
[09:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, back on the g-s-d issue? ;-)
[09:01] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah :)
[09:02] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did you manage to reproduce it or do you still work from guess work and debug infos from mterry?
[09:02] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i can reproduce it from a live CD. it relies on the existence of a touchpad (and having "disable touchpad whilst typing" enabled)
[09:02] <seb128> oh, "fun" ;-)
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> seb128, did you read my comments on friday evening?
[09:04] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the one where you were pondering digging in asm on a friday evening? ;-)
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> seb128, the ones on the bug report. but the comment about digging in to asm on friday evening was around the same time :)
[09:05] <seb128> oh, no, that was on twitter
[09:05] <seb128> I just read the bug ones
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> i didn't look at it on friday in the end ;)
[09:05] <seb128> "something in set_disable_w_typing() writes 0x0 to the %ebx register"
[09:05] <mvo> glatzor: good morning! bary mentioned that he wanted to look at the xapian py3 thing, not sure about pyxdg, isn't there something gi based these days? gmenu iirc?
[09:05] <seb128> I'm not even sure where to start for sur issues
[09:06] <seb128> sur->such
[09:07] <seb128> chrisccoulson, DOH
[09:07] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I think it's the most stupid bug ever
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> seb128, how come?
[09:08] <seb128> set_disable_w_typing (GsdMouseManager *manager, gboolean state)
[09:08] <seb128> ..
[09:08] <seb128>                 char *args[6];
[09:08] <seb128>                 args[5] = "-t";
[09:08] <seb128>                 args[6] = NULL;
[09:08] <seb128> we have a patch adding an argument
[09:08] <glatzor> mvo, ok thanks for the hint: there is gio.DesktopAppInfo
[09:08] <seb128> but we didn't increase *args[n]
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> hah
[09:08] <seb128> chrisccoulson, so we write one out
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> that could be it ;)
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> i hadn't looked in there yet
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> although
[09:09] <seb128> chrisccoulson, cf 10_smaller_syndaemon_timeout.patch
[09:09] <mvo> glatzor: yeah, that was the one I think
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> i'm interested in how that results in register corruption :)
[09:10] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, well likely the stack part we overwrite with 0x0 was the register value and it's restoring it when returning or something...
[09:11] <chrisccoulson> seb128, possibly. i'm just doing an unstripped build here so i can disassemble it properly :)
[09:11] <seb128> chrisccoulson, let me know how that goes ;-)
[09:12] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you want to fix that patch,upload to quantal or should I do it?
[09:12] <glatzor> mvo, how far away is the s-c port?
[09:12] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i can do that in a bit. i just want to understand how it breaks it in the way that it does :)
[09:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, no hurry, thanks
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> thanks for spotting that as well :)
[09:14] <seb128> yw
[09:18] <mvo> glatzor: xapian is the big blocker
[09:21] <chrisccoulson> seb128, ok, the overwrite occurs when set_disable_w_typing() restores the value of %ebx from the stack, just before it returns
[09:22] <chrisccoulson> that makes a lot of sense now :)
[09:22] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, that's what I guessed before ;-)
[09:22] <chrisccoulson> yeah :)
[09:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson, and of course stack corruptions are not showed by valgrind...
[09:23] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's a bit of a pain. which is why tracking down the register write was quite helpful :)
[09:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I wonder what we corrupt on precise :p
[09:23] <seb128> likely not ebx or it would segfault as well
[09:23] <chrisccoulson> is this in precise as well?
[09:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the buggy patch is
[09:23] <chrisccoulson> we should probably consider fixing that ;)
[09:24] <seb128> yeah
[09:24] <seb128> I will SRU that today
[09:24] <seb128> there are some other patches for g-s-d that might be worth SRUing
[09:24] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[09:24] <seb128> yw
[09:25] <seb128> oh, pitti is piloting today
[09:25] <seb128> cool, I might let him some of sponsoring queue desktop items then ;-)
[09:26] <pitti> haven't started yet, but yes, I will
[09:27] <seb128> pitti, hey, how are you? had a good w.e?
[09:28] <pitti> seb128: indeed I had, thanks! we had some friends over again, and a very relaxing two days
[09:28] <seb128> pitti, how was the game yesterday? They broadcasted Netherlands and not Germany here yesterday
[09:28] <pitti> a bike tour, swimming, barbeccue, and of course watching the game last night
[09:28] <seb128> bike, swim, bbq ... I guess you have nice weather as well ;-)
[09:28] <pitti> seb128: https://plus.google.com/107564545827215425270/posts/gwBK6guSV8b
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: yeah, it's marvellous
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: both the German and the Danish team played pretty similar indeed, it was a very tense game towards the end
[09:29] <seb128> hehe, nice german flags paintings ;-)
[09:30] <pitti> we were in a Biergarten
[09:31] <seb128> pitti, == beers bar? I like the size of the glasses :p
[09:31] <pitti> seb128: will you watch tomorrow, against Sweden?
[09:32] <pitti> seb128: "beer garden", yes; it's like an open air pub
[09:33] <seb128> pitti, yeah, I will watch the game tomorrow for sure ;-)
[09:35] <seb128> pitti, let's see, we might have Germany - France in 1/2 final
[09:35] <seb128> though our 1/4 will be an hard one
[09:35] <seb128> you guys got quite lucky, playing Greece in 1/4 ;-)
[09:36] <seb128> mvo, hey
[09:36] <seb128> mvo, is there any chance you could review https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/update-manager/update-at-start/+merge/108369 this week? it's up for review for almost 3 weeks ;-)
[09:40]  * Laney is glad glib has a test suite but it really does take a while to run
[09:41] <seb128> yeah, glib is a pain to build, between the several builds for refdbg, etc and the testsuit it's taking ages
[09:46] <chrisccoulson> right, i think it's time for some coffee now
[09:50] <mvo> seb128: *cough* yes - but anyone from your team could also do the review
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, that patch was originally from rodrigo. i'm surprised at that ;)
[09:53] <seb128> mvo, I'm fine doing code reviews but that's sort of a behaviour change and would appreciate if you could look at it as well
[09:54] <seb128> mvo, danke
[09:54] <seb128> chrisccoulson, why is that surprising?
[09:56] <chrisccoulson> i thought rodrigo would have spotted something like that too :)
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> seb128, are you aware of http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/sg-manual.html btw?
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> seems that might be useful here ;)
[09:58] <glatzor> mvo: is the information in axi and app-install-data enough to map every application that is shown in s-c?
[09:58] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, the bug is not rodrigo's
[09:58] <seb128> chrisccoulson, he just changed the delay's value
[09:58] <seb128> chrisccoulson, we landed the "add -t" before precise, it's my fault :p
[09:59] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[10:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, btw did you upload yet?
[10:00] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it's uploaded now
[10:00] <seb128> ok, I will do the SRU then, thanks
[10:01] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks for the valgrind doc, I didn't know about it
[10:01] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'm going to try running it in sgcheck now to see if it finds the problem too
[10:01] <pitti> glatzor: I talked to David Zeuthen (polkit/udisks upstream) last week about testing daemons which use polkit
[10:02] <pitti> glatzor: would you mind if I took aptdaemon's fake-polkit, generalize that a bit, and we get it into upstream polkit? then it would be much easier for other projects to use it
[10:03] <seb128> chrisccoulson, btw stupid question maybe, but is the args[] array stored on the stack in this code?
[10:03] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, the array and all of the values are too
[10:04] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, sgcheck crashes!
[10:04] <chrisccoulson> that's probably why it's still experimental
[10:05] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is that normal to use the stack for that? I though it would just alloc memory somewhere and point to that
[10:05] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it's ok to use like that
[10:05] <chrisccoulson> sometimes it's better, as you don't have to worry about freeing the memory afterwards, and you can reduce heap fragmentation as well
[10:06] <seb128> I guess it depends how much data you have to store...
[10:09] <seb128> chrisccoulson, well in any case that was a fun bug :p
[10:09] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[10:09] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks for helping debugging it, I don't think I would ever have found the issue if you didn't trace to the function to look at ;-)
[10:09] <chrisccoulson> it was certainly quite fun to track down :)
[10:11] <mvo> seb128: sure and sorry for not getting to it for so long, lots to do, but as long as the code is reviewed I'm fine and don't want to be a single-point-of-failure
[10:12] <mvo> glatzor: you don't need axi for this, just the data from /var/cache/software-center/xapian and from the software-cneter-agent db in home, so ideally you just use the s-c StoreDatabase class
[10:12] <seb128> mvo, yeah, sorry for adding to your busy todolist, we will try to review "normal" changes (i.e the ones which don't involve changing the behaviour) reviewed without bothering you ;-)
[10:13] <mvo> seb128: thanks, I put it on my list for today
[10:13] <mvo> glatzor: mpt just told me about plans for the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Determining_software_item_information inside aptdaemon?
[10:17] <mvo> glatzor: we should talk about this on the phone a bit, I would like to use something like libdee for this
[10:27] <glatzor> mvo, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/smart-error/view/head:/aptdaemon/app.py
[10:28]  * glatzor takes a look at libdee
[10:31] <glatzor> pitti, of course - it is free software :)
[11:05] <zyga> hey, has anyone from non us noticed a regression where any alt+keystroke that used to provide accented characters just stopped working recently?
[13:16] <cyphermox> good morning!
[13:18] <seb128> cyphermox, hey, how are you?
[13:18] <cyphermox> hey. not bad.
[13:18] <cyphermox> setting up a new computer for dev work; I wish ubuntu one would work properly on quantal
[13:19] <cyphermox> here it totally refuses to do any syncing
[13:20] <seb128> cyphermox, :-(
[13:23] <cyphermox> seb128: seems it's an SSL issue
[14:29] <seb128> mterry_, mterry: hey, enjoy having a theme back ;-)
[14:30] <mterry_> seb128, :)
[14:30] <mterry_> seb128, chrisccoulson: thanks for fixing that!
[14:32] <seb128> mterry_, kudos to chrisccoulson for tracking it down ;-) it was a very stupid bug at the end, write one element over an array
[14:32] <seb128> mterry_, which happened to write a NULL over the ebx stored value :p
[14:32] <dobey> was there a new gtk+ uploaded to quantal in the past ~72 hours?
[14:33] <Laney> yes
[14:33] <seb128> dobey, yes, 3.5
[14:33] <mterry_> seb128, :-/
[14:34] <dobey> hrmm
[14:35] <seb128> dobey, why?
[14:36] <BigWhale> seb128, I have a problem now. Apparently keybinder-3 didn't make it into Wheezy and DktrKranz is now on vacation and when he's back it will be too late for that to happen. Is there a way to get it into Quantal anyway?
[14:37] <seb128> BigWhale, same as any other package, get a sponsor to review and upload for you?
[14:37] <BigWhale> seb128, ok, thanks.
[14:37] <BigWhale> :)
[14:38] <seb128> yw!
[14:40] <dobey> seb128: it appears to have broken some tsts in ubuntu-sso-client :-/
[14:40] <seb128> dobey, :-(
[14:44] <dobey> this is weird
[14:59] <seb128> nooo, not two mterry, one is enough!
[15:00] <mterry> seb128, pay no attention to the mterry_two behind the curtain
[15:00] <seb128> no way I'm falling into that one, I will watch for both of you :p
[15:00] <mterry> :)
[15:04] <mterry_two> seb128, ooh, I can test that layout update, I believe.  I didn't notice the fix coming through
[15:06] <seb128> mterry_two, what layout update?
[15:07] <mterry_two> seb128, the fr layout bug
[15:07] <seb128> mterry_two, got a fix? where?
[15:07] <mterry_two> seb128, oh!  that's the screensaver bug
[15:07] <mterry_two> seb128, bummer.  I saw your comment and saw the bug title and got confused
[15:07] <mterry_two> :-/  needs more coffee
[15:08] <seb128> mterry_two, oh, that one, yeah we got it fixed, I still hope to get the fr one looked at soon, I've nagged daniels again on friday about it :p
[15:08] <seb128> mterry_two, it bothered me enough that I tried on a f17 liveCD and they got the issue as well, so it seems to be an xserver upstream issue
[15:09] <mterry_two> yeah I saw that, good on ya!  :)
[15:23] <dobey> seb128: looks like new gtk+ breaks gtk_widget_override_color() calls on GtkLabel widgets :(
[15:24] <seb128> dobey, I guess try to ping cosimoc or Company about it to know if that's a known issue?
[15:26] <dobey> yeah, though i suspect i will be told "it's a bug fix, not api breakage" despite the fact that api being used is now broken; at least, that's what happened the last time such a break happened for api i was using :-/
[15:36] <mvo> dobey: hey, I noticed lp:~dobey/ubuntu/quantal/python-oauth/python3-packages, what is the state of this one? anything I could help with ?
[15:38] <dobey> mvo: it breaks ubuntu-sso-client tests. so there's something not quite right in it. i need to check barry's branch to see what he changed/did different still
[15:38] <dobey> been too swamped with higher priority stuff though
[15:39] <mvo> dobey: aha, thanks. to test, can I just branch lp:ubuntu-sso-client and run the tests with py3? or is that in a different branch?
[15:39] <dobey> mvo: you can't run ubuntu-sso-client tests with python3 at all, no
[15:39] <dobey> it's not ported yet
[15:42] <mvo> oh, ok
[15:43] <mvo> dobey: I did a 2to3 version some time ago but that was just a toy
[15:44] <mvo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1047512/
[15:46] <dobey> mvo: i'll try to see if i can't poke at it again later today. but right now gtk+ is busy annoying the crap out of me :(
[15:47] <mvo> ::(
[15:49] <danawar2> Test
[15:51] <Laney> tseliot: Hey, did you mean to remove 4 from PATCH_MATCH[4] here? It seems to break the build again for me. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/107881778/bcmwl_5.100.82.38%2Bbdcom-0ubuntu7_5.100.82.38%2Bbdcom-0ubuntu8.diff.gz
[15:52] <tseliot> Laney: how so?
[15:52] <Laney> same as before, asm/system.h
[15:53] <tseliot> Laney: with what kernel?
[15:54] <Laney> tseliot: 3.4.0-5-generic
[15:55] <Laney> it built when I put 4 back there
[15:55] <tseliot> Laney: I think I made the package apply the patch only for kernels >= 3.5, my bad..
[15:55] <Laney> yeah, that's what I'd guess from the diff :-)
[15:57] <tseliot> Laney: I should always apply that patch, since there's an "#if LINUX_VERSION_CODE < KERNEL_VERSION(3, 4, 0)"
[15:57] <Laney> nice, that should make it easier
[16:01] <tseliot> Laney: ok, uploaded
[16:02] <Laney> cheers
[16:05] <Laney> http://paste.debian.net/175098 does anyone see any issues here?
[16:05] <Laney> I can't get a desktop any more!
[16:05] <Laney> guest session, gdm, lightdm all fail and just throw me back to the login manager
[16:17] <micahg> kenvandine: why did you upload chromium?
[16:18] <kenvandine> micahg, well it fixed the ftbfs for arm
[16:18] <kenvandine> but... it fails for other reasons on quantal :/
[16:18] <kenvandine> built for precise in a ppa for me though
[16:19] <kenvandine> micahg, did you see my branch i proposed?
[16:19] <micahg> kenvandine: right, precise has a different toolchain than quantal and quantal has been broke for chromium since it opened which is why I haven't uploaded yet
[16:19] <micahg> I didn't see the branch eitehr
[16:19] <kenvandine> this fix will fix it on precise for sure :)
[16:20] <kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/chromium-browser/chromium-browser.quantal/+merge/110831
[16:22] <micahg> kenvandine: ah, now I see it in my mail, thanks
[16:23] <micahg> kenvandine: but still, it wasn't going to build anyways
[16:24] <kenvandine> i see that now
[16:24] <micahg> bug 992212
[16:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 992212 in chromium-browser "chromium-browser FTBFS in quantal" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992212
[16:24] <kenvandine> it'll work on precise though :)
[16:24] <bkerensa> micahg: have you seen this http://i.imgur.com/bgYKT.png in 12.10 at all? Not sure which package to file this against
[16:24] <Laney> known
[16:25] <Laney> kenvandine: does the new light-themes fix that?
[16:26] <kenvandine> Laney, yes
[16:26] <Laney> nice
[16:26] <kenvandine> Laney, a couple of the indicators still has the wrong background
[16:26] <kenvandine> but not as bad as that
[16:28] <micahg> kenvandine: and that's wrong on armel for quantal anyways
[16:28] <bkerensa> Laney: so that is related to light-themes and a fix is coming down the pipe?
[16:29] <Laney> bkerensa: the tubes should deliver you a fix soon
[16:29] <Laney> it was caused by the new gtk
[16:29] <bkerensa> ahh ok
[16:43] <cyphermox> Laney: to answer your question about lightdm before, I'm not seeing that
[16:44] <Laney> I only see it on one machine
[16:44] <Laney> will have to investigate more
[16:45] <cyphermox> ok
[16:46] <cyphermox> theme is completely fubar here though; the indicators aren't readable when selected
[16:46] <Laney> (how cool would it be to be able to bisect apt runs?)
[16:47] <bkerensa> cyphermox: So over the weekend brought that bluetooth hardware to Bug Jam/BSP and showed it to slangasek he thinks its kernel related and I sent a e-mail with the details to bluetooth-kernel
[16:48] <cyphermox> bkerensa: cool
[16:48] <bkerensa> cyphermox: More specifically it would seem no Bluetooth headsets are working with this Intel BT chip
[16:52] <seb128> re
[16:52] <seb128> Laney, your lightdm issue, did you check your session .xsession-errors? is it like login in but the user exits directly?
[16:53] <Laney> seb128: it's completely empty
[16:53] <Laney> I don't think it gets very far into the session
[16:54] <seb128> Laney, that started today? what did you upgrade?
[16:54] <Laney> let me get dpkg.log
[16:58] <Laney> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1047618/ or http://paste.ubuntu.com/1047621/ is a grep for "status installed"
[16:58] <Laney> I /think/ I had restarted since the previous dist-upgrade, but I can't be totally sure
[16:58] <rickspencer3> bryceh, good morning
[17:00] <seb128> Laney, libc, gtk, gnome-session are in this update...
[17:00] <seb128> Laney, can you start a session using startx?
[17:01] <bryceh> rickspencer3, heya
[17:02] <Laney> seb128: no, "user not authorized to run the X server, aborting"
[17:02] <Laney> but my working machine also gives that
[17:02] <rickspencer3> bryceh, so, no alpha/beta spins, we test every 2 weeks, and save those tested images?
[17:04] <bryceh> rickspencer3, it sounds like a good plan to me, I like it
[17:04] <seb128> Laney, do you have an X running already? startx -- :1 should work
[17:04] <Laney> I understand that ISO testing is pretty heavy
[17:04] <seb128> Laney, that works here at least for me
[17:05] <Laney> so we should check if the people who would be doing it are up for that work
[17:05] <rickspencer3> hi Laney
[17:05] <Laney> hey!
[17:05] <rickspencer3> well, it's not so heavy, but yeah, we need Nick to gear up for such a plan
[17:05] <bryceh> rickspencer3, now, there's been some marketing value of having named images to encourage people to kick tires, that would be lost.  But there's dozens of ways to skin that cat.
[17:05] <rickspencer3> he has people "adopt an ISO" now
[17:05] <Laney> I guess it depends on what would be tested
[17:05] <rickspencer3> Laney, you can look at the ISO tracker, hold on
[17:06] <Laney> rickspencer3: I know about the ISO test cases — I'm just querying if people would be up for doing it every fortnight
[17:06] <bryceh> rickspencer3, and honestly like someone else already said, it may be that the "alpha" moniker actually scares people off at the exact time we could use their feedback the most (early on in the release, when we have plenty of time to fix bugs)
[17:06] <rickspencer3> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds/17441/testcases
[17:06] <Laney> I think it would be good to have input from some of the people running these things on the ground
[17:07] <bryceh> Laney, a few releases ago we did do something like that just for the proprietary video drivers, except it was every week
[17:07] <rickspencer3> I think this is a good opportunity to grow contributors, actually
[17:07] <bryceh> Laney, not a lot of people had the stamina to do that, but those who did got very passionate about it, and did it quite reliably
[17:07] <rickspencer3> I bet a lot of people would like to be able to contribute, and running these test cases doesn't have a very high technical bar, but has a powerful impact
[17:08] <rickspencer3> in any case, the increased cadence of testing is sort of orthagonal
[17:08]  * bryceh nods
[17:08] <rickspencer3> we could do that with or without changing the way we do alphas
[17:08] <rickspencer3> and we visa-versa
[17:08] <seb128> Laney, did you try the startx -- :1?
[17:09] <Laney> seb128: yes, same outcome
[17:09] <Laney> I'm going to timeout in a second so I'll pick it up again tomorrow if you don't mind?
[17:09] <seb128> Laney, hum, I wonder if that's your issue for lightdm as well...
[17:09] <Laney> yeah, could be
[17:09] <rickspencer3> bye Laney!
[17:09] <seb128> Laney, yeah, sure, no hurry, it's only you who seem to have the issue so far so it's not a "we need to sort it you immediatly"
[17:09] <Laney> I found some references to /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config on google, and it references a group which doesn't exist
[17:09] <Laney> "console"
[17:09] <Laney> but I don't know if that is relevant at all
[17:10] <Laney> rickspencer3: do you think any of the cadence issues you raise would be mitigated by folks always being able to upload their stuff to proposed?
[17:10] <rickspencer3> Laney, well, that's kind of how it alls tarted
[17:11] <Laney> I mean, we don't currently have that, but that is the goal
[17:11] <rickspencer3> the first question being ... if we are automatically copying from proposed, we can forgo freezing
[17:11] <rickspencer3> well, we do have proposed enabled now, and we should have all the tools for auto-copying etc... by end of June
[17:11] <rickspencer3> so, now was a good time to ask about ceasing to freeze
[17:12] <Laney> I think the release team's plan is to turn off the migration in "freeze" periods
[17:12] <Laney> so that people can test without shifting sands
[17:12] <Laney> but people will always be able to upload
[17:12] <rickspencer3> Laney, well, then people would have to run proposed, which is contrary to the goal of proposed
[17:13] <Laney> correct, people won't get updates during the freeze period
[17:13] <rickspencer3> then we would have different developers running out of different archives, and people running -proposed would suffer from the very effects that turning on proposed was meant to mitigate
[17:13] <rickspencer3> and furthermore, we shouldn't need to freeze
[17:13] <rickspencer3> however, in any case, it seems the question is moot
[17:14] <rickspencer3> because it begged the question, "why have alphas and betas at all, if we have daily quality"
[17:14] <rickspencer3> ?
[17:15] <rickspencer3> if it's to invite deep testing, well we don't need to spin alphas and betas to test, we can run the ISO tracker on any daily build
[17:15] <rickspencer3> and we should set a testing cadence based on what would drive quality, not how often we can release alphas and betas, etc...
[17:15]  * bryceh nods
[17:15] <rickspencer3> </summarizing @u-devel>
[17:15] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:16]  * rickspencer3 is excited about potential increase in quality and velocity
[17:16] <bryceh> rickspencer3, I haven't heard any arguments to the contrary so far; have you heard anyone with strong arguments to keep the alpha/beta approach?
[17:16]  * micahg needs to respond to that thread
[17:16] <rickspencer3> bryceh, nope
[17:16] <bryceh> rickspencer3, also have any of the archive folks chimed in?  I'd be interested in seeing their thoughts.
[17:16] <Laney> so they currently create a kind of point of convergance
[17:16] <rickspencer3> "archive folks"?
[17:17] <Laney> you know that no major changes are going to happen, and that things should kind of "come together" for a time
[17:17] <rickspencer3> Laney, yeah, but we shouldn't do that anymore
[17:17] <rickspencer3> now we make sure things stay together each day, right?
[17:17] <rickspencer3> at least I hope so!
[17:17] <bryceh> rickspencer3, archive admins like cjwatson, slangasek, et al
[17:17] <rickspencer3> bryceh, I know slangasek's views
[17:17] <Laney> yes, but there are still structural changes that take place
[17:17] <rickspencer3> I chatted with cjwatson at UDS
[17:17] <bryceh> rickspencer3, ok good
[17:18] <rickspencer3> but I don't want to speak for them
[17:19] <rickspencer3> Laney, structural changes shouldn't tank Ubuntu anymore though
[17:19] <rickspencer3> right?
[17:22] <Laney> I'm just saying that milestones have value as checkpoints
[17:23] <Laney> sorry, I've got no more time to play devil's advocate :-)
[17:23] <rickspencer3> oh well
[17:23] <rickspencer3> thanks anyway Laney
[17:23] <Laney> I'll think about following up on the thread :P
[17:23] <rickspencer3> I think checkpoints do have value
[17:23] <Laney> I do think it's a good idea, btw, but my point is that we should think about how to preserve the few good things that milestones give us
[17:23] <rickspencer3> but I am not sure our current milestone system makes effective checkpoints
[17:23] <Laney> kudos for raising it
[17:24] <rickspencer3> Laney,  thanks for your feedback
[17:24] <rickspencer3> I always feel better after talking to you  ;)
[17:24] <rickspencer3> have a good night
[17:25] <Laney> it's a kind of sad night - having dinner out with my girlfriend who is going away for 2 months tomorrow
[17:25]  * Laney waves :-)
[17:25] <rickspencer3> :(
[17:25] <rickspencer3> sorry Laney, have fun though
[17:28] <bryceh> rickspencer3, he does have a good point about checkpoints
[17:28] <bryceh> rickspencer3, however I suspect the value can be gained there without necessarily tying it to creation of isos
[17:28] <rickspencer3> bryceh, right, but that is orthogonal to all the work for spinning an image, I think
[17:28] <rickspencer3> jynx
[17:29] <bryceh> it probably should be tied to something, but that could be like a written milestone report or some such
[17:29] <rickspencer3> frankly, our milestones and freezes get so many exceptions, I'm not sure what they buy us now except for paper work
[17:30] <rickspencer3> though, I guess, even that paper work helps communication about changes
[17:33] <bryceh> well, on the X side we do try to organize package updates around them, so we don't destabilize things an inopportune times, but that can also sometimes add delay at points we don't want it.
[17:51] <mdeslaur> cyphermox: awesome bug: 1014763
[17:51] <mdeslaur> bug 1014763
[17:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1014763 in evolution "evolution deletes spamd socket file when creating new temp files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014763
[21:17] <seb128> robert_ancell, hey
[21:17] <robert_ancell> seb128, duh duh, duuuuuh!
[21:17] <seb128> robert_ancell, ;-)
[21:19] <seb128> robert_ancell, sooooo
[21:19] <robert_ancell> so, all good news?
[21:19] <seb128> robert_ancell, what are your plans for lightdm?
[21:19] <robert_ancell> You just decided to stay up late for fun?
[21:19] <robert_ancell> in what respect
[21:19] <seb128> robert_ancell, mostly good, but users start considering lightdm upstreams are as responsive than gdm ones to bug reports :p
[21:19] <robert_ancell> heh
[21:19] <robert_ancell> well, I have a very low bar to match!
[21:20] <seb128> lol, and yet you manage to be close of not matching it :p
[21:20] <robert_ancell> !
[21:20] <robert_ancell> :)
[21:20] <robert_ancell> my plans are to recruit a new maintainer called seb128
[21:21] <seb128> robert_ancell, joke aside, can we land a new version with the utmp commits to quantal? then we can consider backporting those
[21:21] <robert_ancell> sure
[21:22] <seb128> robert_ancell, another bug which seems to have interest from other teams is the one about the expired password handling
[21:22] <seb128> robert_ancell, bug #972537
[21:22] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 972537 in lightdm "lightdm doesn't allow expired passwords" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/972537
[21:22] <seb128> robert_ancell, if you think you will not have time to work on it can you unassign yourself and comment on the bug? it seems the corporate guys care about it, they might pick it if we bail out
[21:23] <robert_ancell> ok, shouldn't be too hard to check, I guess the case in unity-greeter --test-mode is not matching this correctly
[21:23] <robert_ancell> it will be a u-g bug
[21:24] <seb128> robert_ancell, you are trying to dump it on mterry, aren't you? ;-)
[21:24] <robert_ancell> If he'll take it!
[21:24] <seb128> well, he's maintaining unity-greeter right? :-)
[21:25] <seb128> robert_ancell, otherwise you got lucky, your gtk update didn't break too much :p
[21:25] <robert_ancell> I told people it would break things, not my fault unico/light-themes is as unresponsive as me
[21:25] <seb128> robert_ancell, there was some unreadable label issues in combo boxes and indicators but ken covered for you and uploaded the fixes Cimi had in light-theme trunk ;-)
[21:26] <seb128> lol
[21:27] <mterry> seb128, robert-ancell: I was trying to avoid totally owning unity-greeter!
[21:31] <seb128> mterry, FAIL
[21:31] <seb128> ;-)
[21:31] <mterry> :)
[21:32] <seb128> mterry, robert_ancell: who wants to look at bug #990661 btw?
[21:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 990661 in lightdm "lightdm zombie process created while press sscape button on Login screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/990661
[21:33]  * robert_ancell watches the tumbleweed blow past
[21:33] <seb128> lol
[21:34] <mterry> seb128, weird.
[21:34] <mterry> seb128, I can look
[21:34] <seb128> mterry, thanks
[21:37]  * thumper enjoys watching seb128 bug^W discuss issues with someone else...
[21:39] <robert_ancell> mterry, duplicity update on the books?
[21:39] <robert_ancell> thumper, "discuss" is not the word
[21:39] <thumper> hand off?
[21:39] <seb128> heh
[21:39] <seb128> you guys are no fun :p
[21:40] <seb128> I'm just sharing!
[21:40] <thumper> no... no... this is fun
[21:40] <mterry> robert_ancell, I have a duplicity update on my TODO, but I wasn't rushing for its changes
[21:40] <robert_ancell> mterry, I'll assign the bug to you