| === The_soup is now known as GridCube | ||
| ochosi | madnick: ping | 08:23 |
|---|---|---|
| ochosi | knome: i think you're right that we have to talk with GridCube about the default audio-player spec soon | 10:36 |
| knome | yup | 10:36 |
| ochosi | especially because it implies that we should take care of the other default apps as well | 10:36 |
| knome | heh :) | 10:37 |
| ochosi | "we" == xubuntu team | 10:37 |
| knome | i should send some email to the list | 10:37 |
| ochosi | or you could also say: we (you and i) should at least assign someone | 10:37 |
| hobgoblin | what a good team you are | 10:37 |
| ochosi | lol | 10:37 |
| ochosi | hobgoblin: do you feel like helping us with default apps? | 10:37 |
| hobgoblin | I am scheduled to give gridcube a hand with the media stuff | 10:38 |
| hobgoblin | but if there's anything else I can help with I'm happy to | 10:38 |
| ochosi | hobgoblin: just check the list of default apps here and tell me if you're interested in any of it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Goals/Quantal | 10:39 |
| hobgoblin | I have looked at that already - there's really only a couple of things on there I could help with - media and arandr | 10:40 |
| hobgoblin | though I could I suppose look at menu managing at a stretch | 10:40 |
| ochosi | ideally the use-case of the app would apply to you as well – what i mean to say is: if you don't use backup-apps, it's probably too hard to compare apps for that | 10:40 |
| hobgoblin | ok - well is there use-cases for them all? | 10:42 |
| ochosi | the things i personally care about in this list: package-manager, video-player, backup-app and probably monitor management | 10:42 |
| ochosi | i'm not sure, i've never used a webcam app, not sure how useful it is tbh | 10:42 |
| hobgoblin | package management/monitors/media/menu (now and again) | 10:43 |
| ochosi | but yeah, supposedly there is a use-case for that too (maybe gridcube can elaborate) | 10:43 |
| hobgoblin | I don't do gimp/webcam/ | 10:43 |
| hobgoblin | but I do fiddle about trying different things - for the last 5 years lol - so I suppose I have some experience at it :) | 10:44 |
| ochosi | yeah, personally i think keeping gimp is more a technical decision | 10:44 |
| ochosi | knome: we should really prioritize the list of default apps | 10:44 |
| hobgoblin | yea - imho opinion gimp is one of those - if there is enough reason then why not | 10:44 |
| knome | ochosi, propose? | 10:44 |
| hobgoblin | but - if someone can give me some guidance about what is needed - then I am happy to help | 10:45 |
| ochosi | knome: put those items, where we have an ok-working solution at the moment to the bottom :) | 10:45 |
| knome | ochosi, i mean, yeah, edit the wiki, do a proposal ;) | 10:45 |
| ochosi | knome: menu-manager, video-player, audio-player, image-editor etc | 10:45 |
| ochosi | knome: ok :) | 10:45 |
| ochosi | hobgoblin: sure we can – as you said, we're a great team ;) | 10:46 |
| hobgoblin | lol | 10:46 |
| ochosi | knome: i'll do that after lunch, have to go in 5 | 10:46 |
| knome | ochosi, np | 10:46 |
| ochosi | but really, i think the list is misleading because it mixes apples and oranges | 10:46 |
| ochosi | there are use-cases where we don't haev anything currently (webcam, backups) | 10:46 |
| ochosi | then there are apps, where we're just considering alternatives | 10:47 |
| ochosi | and then there are apps that we'd love to replace if we can (e.g. USC) | 10:47 |
| hobgoblin | I replace USC with an empty menu place | 10:47 |
| ochosi | yeah, we can all fix things for ourselves, but we should really think about what's best for everyone | 10:48 |
| ochosi | i mean everyone who'd potentially use xubuntu | 10:48 |
| hobgoblin | what's the lubuntu one like? | 10:50 |
| ochosi | try it :p | 10:51 |
| hobgoblin | sounds like a dare to me ... | 10:51 |
| knome | i've sent email to the -devel ML | 10:52 |
| knome | everybody please get to it | 10:52 |
| hobgoblin | ochosi: well it works - but there's a whole lot of white space there | 10:55 |
| ochosi | off for lunch, bbl | 10:55 |
| knome | ochosi, bon appetit | 10:55 |
| hobgoblin | have a good one | 10:55 |
| ochosi | ty | 10:58 |
| ochosi | knome: i'll propose a few importances on the default apps, feel free to ping me on that | 12:18 |
| knome | ok, will do | 12:20 |
| ochosi | what do you think about sending an email to the ML asking people to help out with app-comparisons? | 12:22 |
| ochosi | i mean as long as we show them the old samples we have, it won't fail too miserably (hopefully | 12:22 |
| knome | worksforme | 12:22 |
| ochosi | ) | 12:22 |
| ochosi | just an example: i never use backup-tools (apart from rysnc), so i dunno what people would wanna use | 12:23 |
| ochosi | otoh i think it's good to have by default | 12:23 |
| ochosi | dropbox integration or ubuntu-one integration or something like that | 12:23 |
| knome | i use rsync exclusively, too | 12:23 |
| ochosi | or an app that handles all of those | 12:23 |
| ochosi | yeah, many users don't have their own servers :) | 12:24 |
| ochosi | ok, the proposed importances are set | 12:24 |
| ochosi | whoop, row-color break | 12:24 |
| ochosi | i'll fix that as soon as you've commented | 12:24 |
| knome | wut?:P | 12:25 |
| knome | oh right | 12:25 |
| knome | just a sec | 12:25 |
| knome | i think "importance" is a bit wrong | 12:27 |
| knome | maybe it should be something that describes how much work it is useful to put in that group | 12:27 |
| knome | rather than describing how important it is to change (now) | 12:27 |
| ochosi | yeah, i totally agree | 12:27 |
| ochosi | but this is kinda how i prioritized them | 12:28 |
| knome | maybe change the importance-column to "priority" | 12:28 |
| ochosi | mhm, better | 12:28 |
| knome | i'm thinking of monitor management -> high, and maybe video player -> med | 12:28 |
| knome | and maybe package manager -> essential | 12:29 |
| ochosi | mkay | 12:29 |
| knome | but that depends much on when synaptic is dying | 12:29 |
| ochosi | yeah, we should inquire a bit | 12:30 |
| ochosi | btw, arandr is nice, maybe we could improve it to work better with xfce | 12:30 |
| knome | yup | 12:30 |
| knome | anyway with these changes (+ importance -> priority), i'm ok with it | 12:31 |
| ochosi | hey astraljava | 12:32 |
| * knome gets something to eat+drink | 12:32 | |
| astraljava | o/ | 12:38 |
| knome | hey | 12:40 |
| knome | btw, i might not be able to attend the meeting tomorrow; in that case, could either of you chair it? | 12:41 |
| ochosi | yup, hope so | 12:43 |
| knome | good | 12:43 |
| ochosi | astraljava: how busy are you on a scale of 1-10 (10==swamped with work) | 12:43 |
| knome | there isn't much on the agenda, so it should be rather easy/quick | 12:43 |
| knome | ..unless astraljava wants to go through some QA items | 12:44 |
| knome | ochosi, he's -10, whenever i talk with him on daytime, he's slacking at home | 12:44 |
| * knome shakes head | 12:44 | |
| ochosi | lol | 12:44 |
| astraljava | knome: Yeah, but you have no idea about my moonlighting... | 12:45 |
| knome | astraljava, if that relates to the silverlight-moonlight, i don't want to know... | 12:45 |
| astraljava | ochosi: Well, basically I'm probably around 8-9, but many of my tasks are slightly adjustable. :) Our definition of 'slight' may vary. | 12:46 |
| ochosi | astraljava: ok, thing is that we need to re-distribute mr_pouit's workitems | 12:46 |
| knome | meh, this yoghurt said "less sugar", but it still tastes like sugar | 12:47 |
| knome | :P | 12:47 |
| astraljava | ochosi: Tell me more, you got me interested. | 12:47 |
| ochosi | :) | 12:47 |
| knome | lol, now you want to be the technical lead too? | 12:48 |
| knome | hunger grows eating, i suppose.. | 12:48 |
| ochosi | astraljava: i don't think that it's actually _so_ hard to do, but we wanted to slightly improve xfce4-display-dialog# | 12:48 |
| ochosi | knome: or was it the other way round? | 12:48 |
| knome | ochosi, ;) | 12:48 |
| astraljava | knome: Yes. And you know what comes after that?! O;-) | 12:48 |
| knome | hahah. | 12:48 |
| ochosi | khalif instead of the khalif? :} | 12:49 |
| knome | well, it's possibly up for grabs after the 13.04 cycle | 12:49 |
| astraljava | Nah, I'm good with these two. *smirk* | 12:49 |
| knome | ;) | 12:49 |
| knome | anyway, don't believe ochosi when he says "it's not *so* hard to do" | 12:50 |
| knome | ;) | 12:50 |
| astraljava | ochosi: Ok. Is there anything written somewhere about the problems? | 12:50 |
| astraljava | knome: I don't believe anything written on this channel. | 12:50 |
| astraljava | Myself the least. | 12:50 |
| knome | good policy | 12:50 |
| ochosi | astraljava: well there's a multi-monitor-spec, but that is the advanced plan | 12:50 |
| astraljava | Alright. Yeah I'm of the less-advanced variety. | 12:51 |
| ochosi | astraljava: for the small improvement (which i'd head for first), we'd just need more comboboxes to support xrandr-leftof and xrand-rightof and possibly a check-box for "mirror displays" | 12:51 |
| ochosi | that's already it | 12:51 |
| ochosi | people have no simple way of aligning multiple displays | 12:52 |
| astraljava | ochosi: Right. Well that _does not_ sound overly complicated. | 12:52 |
| ochosi | atm they have to set that themselves in xfconf | 12:52 |
| ochosi | which sucks | 12:52 |
| astraljava | ochosi: But is there a reason why not to use arandr for that? | 12:52 |
| knome | not very user-friendly at least. | 12:52 |
| ochosi | arandr is a bit nicer, it's in python and has a widget that represents the connected displays (whcih would be the advanced version) | 12:52 |
| ochosi | astraljava: tbh the UI is horrible | 12:52 |
| astraljava | Ok. :) | 12:52 |
| ochosi | astraljava: i already formulated an email to the author/maintainer in case you say "no" :) | 12:53 |
| ochosi | astraljava: also: i prefer to improve xfce, because that's good for all distros | 12:53 |
| astraljava | Well I wouldn't say no. I've already planned the mid-summer long weekend for all *buntu and related computery stuff. | 12:53 |
| astraljava | ...which means this upcoming weekend. | 12:53 |
| ochosi | kewl | 12:54 |
| ochosi | unfortunately i won't be around for moral support | 12:54 |
| * ochosi is going to a cottage with some friends | 12:54 | |
| astraljava | That's fine, I'll just cough up a first draft. | 12:54 |
| ochosi | but if you're up for it, we can quickly write down a list of things to do | 12:54 |
| astraljava | Sure, sounds like a plan. | 12:54 |
| ochosi | i can also make a quick mockup just to be sure we're talking about the same things | 12:54 |
| astraljava | Wouldn't hurt, either. | 12:55 |
| knome | ochosi, can you come up with something that *does* hurt? | 12:57 |
| astraljava | Yeah, gnome forgot to hurt me on Thursday. | 12:58 |
| ochosi | :) | 12:58 |
| knome | did i? dang. | 12:58 |
| knome | :) | 12:58 |
| ochosi | astraljava: here you go, this is what i had in mind: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/MultipleMonitors#Improve_Xfce.27s_dialog | 13:09 |
| ochosi | astraljava: is it understandable/clear enough? | 13:10 |
| astraljava | OUCH! That hurts! | 13:10 |
| ochosi | what does? me pinging you? | 13:11 |
| astraljava | I won't tell you. | 13:11 |
| ochosi | ok, well i'm satisfied as long as you tell me bout the display dialog :) | 13:12 |
| knome | astraljava, stop trying to use those lightbulbs as earplugs. | 13:12 |
| astraljava | ochosi: Ok, yeah. That looks understandable even to me. | 13:12 |
| astraljava | knome: But I've heard about this light treatment through your ears... | 13:13 |
| ochosi | astraljava: right. so it's one checkbox and one combobox, no more no less | 13:13 |
| knome | yeah, at least try the energy-saving lights. | 13:13 |
| astraljava | ochosi: Cool. I'll chat with the guys on #xfce-dev if I run across any problems. Otherwise I'll try to produce this change over the weekend. | 13:14 |
| ochosi | astraljava: great! | 13:16 |
| ochosi | btw, the two guys mainly responsible for the display-dialog are mr_pouit and jeromeg | 13:16 |
| ochosi | both of those french fries are currently a bit "off the grid" | 13:16 |
| ochosi | so don't expect immediate support | 13:17 |
| astraljava | Buahaha! | 13:17 |
| knome | hmm, french fries would be nice. | 13:17 |
| ochosi | another thing that would be cool would be a "identify monitors" button | 13:17 |
| ochosi | but that's for later :) | 13:17 |
| ochosi | astraljava: btw, if you're done with the simple improvement and are kinda bored, you can try and steal ristretto's wallpaper-widget for the display-dialog ;) | 13:18 |
| astraljava | Heheh. :) Ok, I'll see if such a thing occurs. | 13:20 |
| ochosi | yeah, no problem though, the most important thing would be that we have this small yet so important improvement for 12.10 | 13:20 |
| astraljava | Sure. But you're free to tell me what that is, and does. :) | 13:23 |
| ochosi | you mean the identify-monitors? | 13:24 |
| astraljava | No, the wallpaper-widget. | 13:25 |
| ochosi | ah :) | 13:25 |
| ochosi | ok | 13:25 |
| ochosi | it's this. http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-06192012-032531pm.php | 13:25 |
| ochosi | it knows about the alignment and resolution of the screens | 13:25 |
| ochosi | and it draws the monitors in cairo | 13:25 |
| ochosi | so it could be used to visually reflect the changes to position made in the display-dialog | 13:26 |
| astraljava | Oh ok. Sounds nice. | 13:26 |
| ochosi | yeah, that would be the advanced version ;) | 13:27 |
| ochosi | mainly because of stuff like D'N'D | 13:27 |
| hobgoblin | that was a lot of reading ... | 13:44 |
| knome | if you refer to the strategy document, imagine how much writing it was :) | 13:53 |
| hobgoblin | knome: I refer to both that and the backlog :) | 14:07 |
| hobgoblin | oh and the monitor thingy above :) | 14:07 |
| knome | heh:) | 14:07 |
| * astraljava lols again at the kernel meeting | 17:07 | |
| ochosi | Unit193: mind to check up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/SettingsManagerApps ? | 17:07 |
| ochosi | Unit193: would be nice if you could pack them into a table and add the category to each item | 17:07 |
| astraljava | Clocked in at less than 6.5 minutes, with 20 seconds at the end just idle time, waiting for unexpected items. | 17:07 |
| astraljava | Oops, sorry, wrong channel. | 17:07 |
| ochosi | Unit193: maybe we could also get two columns, one human-readable, one for the name of the desktop-file | 17:07 |
| * Unit193 wanders around looking for a masochist | 17:08 | |
| hobgoblin | ha ha ha | 17:09 |
| Unit193 | Is there a list of catagories? | 17:10 |
| Unit193 | hobgoblin: Are you one? :D | 17:10 |
| hobgoblin | I guess you could if you stretched it call me a category. | 17:11 |
| Unit193 | +masochist | 17:11 |
| hobgoblin | fraid not | 17:11 |
| astraljava | categorically masochist | 17:11 |
| hobgoblin | thanks astraljava | 17:12 |
| hobgoblin | bad timing | 17:12 |
| ochosi | k, g2g | 17:16 |
| Unit193 | I really don't know the names of all these, or have them installed (others added?) | 17:19 |
| Unit193 | ochosi: As requested, categories and table, but only a start. | 17:29 |
| hobgoblin | Unit193: qtconfig-qt4 | 17:33 |
| Unit193 | Thank you! | 17:33 |
| hobgoblin | :) | 17:33 |
| Unit193 | (Is that the correct name?) | 17:33 |
| hobgoblin | that's what it calls for in the menu | 17:34 |
| hobgoblin | compizconfig-settings-manager as well byt the way :p | 17:34 |
| Unit193 | Stinking knome and his getting of small changes... Thanks, never used that one. | 17:35 |
| hobgoblin | lol | 17:35 |
| Unit193 | Name right? And do you happen to know bluetooth? :D | 17:36 |
| hobgoblin | the thing to install is qt4-qtconfig - but qtconfig-qt4 is what's in /usr/bin | 17:37 |
| hobgoblin | aboslutely no idea at all - uninstalling bluetooth is in the first things I do | 17:38 |
| Unit193 | There are many that go, if I were to install xubu-desktop, I'd gain many packages and 73.1M (not that bad.) | 17:39 |
| hobgoblin | indeed | 17:39 |
| Unit193 | Right, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~blueman/blueman/trunk/view/head:/data/blueman-manager.desktop.in that's my guess. | 17:45 |
| hobgoblin | yea | 17:46 |
| hobgoblin | pretty sure that's it | 17:46 |
| Unit193 | Danke, got it maybe all worked out. Like the categories? | 17:49 |
| hobgoblin | Unit193: do you want proper feedback on having these things in the settings manager from a community member | 17:49 |
| hobgoblin | even if it is a hobgoblin | 17:49 |
| Unit193 | Sure, why not? | 17:50 |
| Unit193 | Though, I've been told the review of applications will be done in a meeting. | 17:50 |
| hobgoblin | ok - then I'll do it then I'm about :) | 17:51 |
| hobgoblin | if | 17:51 |
| Unit193 | Categories is just something I randomly picked, or looked at Categories= section. | 17:52 |
| Unit193 | Bluetooth may be a hardware thing, but seems more $whateveriputatthetime. | 17:52 |
| hobgoblin | lol | 17:53 |
| knome | i edited the page a bit. | 18:12 |
| knome | (layout only, should be a bit more readable now) | 18:12 |
| Unit193 | Yeah, that's why I was looking for a masochist. | 18:12 |
| knome | :P | 18:13 |
| Unit193 | ochosi wanted a table, so that's what I did. | 18:13 |
| knome | yeah. | 18:13 |
| knome | probably could've been readable with alternate row colors | 18:13 |
| knome | (we so have to get that to the ubuntu wiki as default :() | 18:13 |
| Unit193 | Note, I don't really care, either way works for me™ | 18:14 |
| knome | i don't care either as long as it is readable :) | 18:14 |
| hobgoblin | I can;t read it | 18:14 |
| hobgoblin | :p | 18:14 |
| Unit193 | Put on your old man glasses. ;) | 18:15 |
| hobgoblin | sure you don't mean "Put on your glasses, old man" :p | 18:16 |
| * hobgoblin is going to read knome's tome again in the morning and right a long reply | 18:17 | |
| astraljava | TL;DR | 18:17 |
| hobgoblin | or rather write one | 18:17 |
| hobgoblin | astraljava: too late ... I did :) | 18:18 |
| hobgoblin | astraljava: I hope you noticed I did 5 dailies yesterday/today | 18:18 |
| astraljava | You've got lots to learn | 18:18 |
| astraljava | No I didn't. | 18:18 |
| hobgoblin | I'll not do that again then | 18:18 |
| * astraljava didn't pay any attention | 18:18 | |
| hobgoblin | lol | 18:18 |
| astraljava | I was too busy fighting with this stupid machine | 18:19 |
| hobgoblin | neither did hobgoblin | 18:19 |
| astraljava | But thanks, anyway! | 18:19 |
| hobgoblin | ha I spent 2 hours fighting my isp and e-mail today :( | 18:19 |
| astraljava | This is very good data for the release meeting on Friday. | 18:19 |
| astraljava | We're gonna have to talk about it tomorrow at the meeting. | 18:19 |
| hobgoblin | I'll do more tomorrow | 18:19 |
| astraljava | Are we gonna do Alpha-2 or not. | 18:20 |
| hobgoblin | but I won't be doing any autoresize ones - unless vbox is ok | 18:20 |
| Unit193 | So the docs are re-written, and I have to read them before doing tests? | 18:20 |
| hobgoblin | Unit193: the short test is | 18:21 |
| hobgoblin | I'venot seen new long one | 18:21 |
| astraljava | The long one is still under construction. | 18:25 |
| astraljava | I'll try to get that revised for the meeting on Sunday. | 18:26 |
| hobgoblin | astraljava: if you want a guinea pig to run through it let me know | 18:29 |
| astraljava | Thanks! I'll keep in mind. | 18:36 |
| knome | hobgoblin, one wish; please separate different issues to separate paragraphs, even they were really tiny things. thanks! :) | 18:40 |
| * knome is referring to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008255.html | 18:41 | |
| hobgoblin | I will - I tried to read that reply as well | 18:45 |
| knome | i just replied to that | 18:45 |
| ochosi | Unit193: well done, thanks! | 21:06 |
| Unit193 | knome helped, as did hobgob. | 21:07 |
| knome | i messed it up. | 21:07 |
| knome | :) | 21:07 |
| Unit193 | I mess everything up, it's part of the plan. | 21:07 |
| ochosi | have you tried whether additional categories are added automagically? | 21:11 |
| Unit193 | Xfce 4.8 | 21:12 |
| ochosi | awwh | 21:12 |
| ochosi | anyone else? knome? | 21:13 |
| knome | 4.8 too | 21:13 |
| Unit193 | Other has .10. | 21:13 |
| ochosi | ok, i can give it a try tomorrow hopefully, but i'm rather busy this week | 21:14 |
| knome | ochosi, btw, i will be most probably away at the time of the meeting, so you'll actually get to chair the meeting ;) | 21:16 |
| ochosi | mkay | 21:18 |
| ochosi | g2g, bbl | 21:18 |
| knome | see you | 21:18 |
| GridCube | knome, tomorrow i have most of the day free | 21:30 |
| GridCube | flag day :D | 21:30 |
| knome | GridCube, congrats :) | 21:30 |
| GridCube | :P i say if you and ochosi want we could talk tomorrow | 21:31 |
| knome | mmh. i'm not sure if i have time, definitely not after 13UTC. | 21:33 |
| astraljava | knome: If we're starting to become picky about posting styles, could we please pay a little attention to trimming the posts as well? Huh? *smirk* | 21:54 |
| knome | huh? :P | 21:54 |
| knome | are you saying i'm too verbose? | 21:54 |
| knome | or did i do something weird? | 21:54 |
| astraljava | Trimming the quotes, I should have said. :) | 21:55 |
| knome | right | 21:55 |
| knome | i didn't really trim any of the text | 21:55 |
| knome | if you are referring to... | 21:55 |
| astraljava | I rest my case. | 21:56 |
| knome | >From my point of view, the best way to proceed is to give the Xubuntu | 21:56 |
| knome | ... i didn't see that in TB | 21:56 |
| knome | it looks okay for me :| | 21:56 |
| astraljava | No I'm not referring to that particular email (which I haven't even read, mind you). But the history. | 21:57 |
| knome | if i did something weird, just tell me | 21:57 |
| knome | i'm trying to make sensible trims, though sometimes it goes all nuts. | 21:57 |
| astraljava | Nah, no big deal. Just that oftentimes, posts to the lists have full originals, and a line added either to the end, or somewhere in the middle. | 21:58 |
| knome | mmh. | 21:58 |
| knome | -devel isn't that much traffic that i think it hurts much. but what do i know? | 21:58 |
| astraljava | xubuntu-devel alone might not be, but when you're on dozens of such... | 21:59 |
| knome | heh. | 21:59 |
| knome | well, i'm not | 21:59 |
| * astraljava lost track of mailing lists subscribed back in '06... | 21:59 | |
| knome | i just unsubscribed from some not a long time ago. | 22:00 |
| astraljava | I should have thought of that. *grin* | 22:00 |
| astraljava | Currently, I'd estimate the number of incoming emails per day around 600 or so. Three thirds of them I can dismiss just by reading the subject line. But that still leaves a few to skim through. | 22:02 |
| knome | heh | 22:02 |
| knome | i had something like 50 coming a day, now i unsubscribed and reviewed the filter, and i have like 5 a day | 22:02 |
| knome | ... | 22:02 |
| astraljava | Non-internet days become horror quickly. :D | 22:03 |
| knome | heh, i see | 22:03 |
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