[12:06] <Destine> sorry, something wrong with my network connection.
[14:00] <balloons> .me waves
[14:00] <balloons> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA
[14:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 20 14:00:58 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[14:01] <phillw> o/
[14:01] <balloons> Hello everyone
[14:01]  * pitti waves hello
[14:01]  * hggdh waves discreetly
[14:02] <balloons> hggdh, :-)
[14:02] <balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
[14:03] <balloons> I don't believe we had any.. just checking to confirm :-)
[14:03] <balloons> Nope, k
[14:03] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
[14:03] <balloons> hggdh, care to talk a bit about ubuntu?
[14:03] <hggdh> heh
[14:04] <hggdh> We are going on nicely. There was a bit of a scare yesterday, with bug...
[14:04]  * hggdh goes check
[14:05] <hggdh> bah, cannot find it. But it was a problem with dpkg amd multiarch
[14:05] <hggdh> that caused dpkg to completely fail to work. Corrected yesterday, and a new dpkg is now available
[14:06] <hggdh> apart from that, it is business as usual. We have pretty much been able to provide working images continuously this cycle
[14:06] <hggdh> well, almost continuously ;-)
[14:06] <hggdh> ..
[14:07] <balloons> :-)
[14:07] <balloons> I saw gema talk a bit about UTAH
[14:07] <balloons> what's going on now with that? Is there a meeting place for people interested now?
[14:08] <hggdh> there is a mailing list for -- ubuntu-utah-dev@lists.ubuntu.com
[14:08] <hggdh> anyone interested can subscribe, and we expect it to be low-volume
[14:08] <hggdh> we do not have meetings or presentations scheduled for UTAH right now
[14:09] <hggdh> but we can set one if there is a need
[14:09] <balloons> are you able to demo it hggdh ?
[14:09] <hggdh> no, I am not -- I am just now getting to use it. Sorry
[14:09] <hggdh> but
[14:10] <hggdh> UTAH is currently limited to dealing with VMs (specifically libvirtd)
[14:10] <hggdh> support for bare-metal installation and testing will come in a few weeks
[14:11] <balloons> thanks hggdh
[14:11] <hggdh> the whole idea of UTAH is to provide a common base for test submission and control (and, up to a point, reporting)
[14:11] <balloons> questions?
[14:12] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
[14:13] <balloons> phillw, care to start us off?
[14:13] <phillw> all quiet on lubuntu, just one bug that seems possibly hardware related.
[14:14] <phillw> they're finalising off the applications that will be included by default
[14:14] <balloons> any big changeups?
[14:14] <phillw> nothing as yet, the application changes are planned after A2, afaik
[14:15] <phillw> they're testing the applications before inclusion, so hopefully there will be very little impact on the iso (famous last words!).
[14:16] <phillw> that's all from me :)
[14:16] <balloons> hehe!
[14:16] <balloons> alright, let's see.. how about xubuntu?
[14:16] <astraljava> Yes, hi.
[14:16] <balloons> howdy astraljava
[14:17] <astraljava> Well, we have finally had some testing, and the tests have gone pretty nicely, a few bugs of course.
[14:17] <astraljava> We're having the team meeting right after this one, and I want to discuss our participation on Alpha-2 milestone.
[14:17] <astraljava> My personal opinion is that we should do it, but let's see.
[14:18] <astraljava> I just started to gather data through the xml-rpc interface, but haven't really made it there, yet.
[14:18] <astraljava> But it'll be of more value during the milestones, anyway.
[14:18] <astraljava> We've also started to enhance our testcases.
[14:19] <astraljava> During one of those discussions, some confusion arose about the categorization of bugs.
[14:19] <astraljava> But we should talk about them later this meeting.
[14:20] <astraljava> That's pretty much it for Xubuntu. No questions? Moving on. *smirk*
[14:20] <astraljava> ..
[14:20] <balloons> astraljava, sounds good, we'll discuss the bug issue in a moment
[14:20] <balloons> alright, kubuntu?
[14:22] <balloons> mythbuntu?
[14:24] <balloons> edubuntu?
[14:24] <balloons> :-) ubuntu studio?
[14:24] <astraljava> Still here. :)
[14:24] <balloons> yes, take two astraljava
[14:25] <highvoltage> sorry what meeting is this again?
[14:25] <balloons> hey highvoltage :-)
[14:25] <astraljava> Studio is a bit of a poor puppy here. We haven't had a working image since $deity_remembers_when.
[14:25] <highvoltage> heya balloons
[14:25] <balloons> this is the qa community meeting
[14:25] <highvoltage> ah ok
[14:26] <astraljava> Contributions to the flavor has been to a minimum. We have left packages hanging in the FTBFS state for way too long.
[14:26] <balloons> k.. so plans for alpha 2?
[14:26] <balloons> going to skip?
[14:26] <astraljava> Also there were some changes in the infrastructure (xfce4), which we just neglected to react to.
[14:27] <astraljava> My feeling is yes, that'll be likely.
[14:27] <astraljava> Unless something miraculous happens during the few upcoming days, definitely.
[14:28] <astraljava> Things are picking up, though, so still very much looking for the Beta milestones.
[14:28] <astraljava> ..
[14:28] <astraljava> looking forward*
[14:29] <balloons> sounds good
[14:29] <balloons> alright any last questions before we move on?
[14:29] <balloons> [TOPIC] Other Topics
[14:30] <balloons> So, I have an update to talk a little about, but we'll start with your bugs questions astraljava
[14:30] <astraljava> Alright, so we chatted about the critical bugs vs. just bugs on the tracker.
[14:31] <astraljava> We did agree that whenever you stumble upon a bug that is not highly relevant to the testcase, you can mark the test as passed, but mention the bug number.
[14:31] <astraljava> But where we didn't come to a conclusion is, and my question is: What exactly is a critical bug?
[14:31] <astraljava> Failing to install? Sure.
[14:32] <astraljava> But other parts? What's your take on it over at the vanilla side?
[14:32] <balloons> we just had this same discussion
[14:32] <balloons> I was hoping to remove the concept of "critical bugs" and go with just bugs
[14:33] <balloons> however, as it stands the definition is something that prevents the testcase from passing
[14:33] <balloons> in other words, in the testcase failed, you should file a critical bug
[14:33] <balloons> if it didn't fail any bugs you found are just bugs
[14:34] <astraljava> Yeah, but some parties were of the opinion that only the uninstallability marks the test as failed.
[14:34] <astraljava> But I was thinking more of the releasability.
[14:34] <balloons> if it failed, and you found other bugs which didn't neccessary lead to it failing somehow, you could also have just bugs on a normal entry
[14:34] <balloons> well, testcases are diverse
[14:35] <balloons> so it may very well install but fail the arch check or something
[14:35] <balloons> by the current definition, it would still be crtiical
[14:35] <balloons> I can't remember where we left the discussion ATM
[14:35] <astraljava> Right, so if you may, I'd present the exact case that lead us bickering; our case wants to check for possible USB sticks, and mounting them.
[14:35] <balloons> it's probably worth continuing on the mailing list / opening a bug against the ubuntu qa website
[14:36] <astraljava> Now I agree that the case should be worded better. But what good is mounting a stick, if you cannot browse it? That's what happened with the tester. dmesg correctly identified the stick, but thunar couldn't browse it.
[14:37] <astraljava> Nevermind the beef of the case here, but I would want the guidelines clear for any similar cases in the future. :)
[14:37] <phillw> I'd consider not being able to browse a mounted usb stick as critical.
[14:38] <phillw> though as to which application to file it against... that is another matter.
[14:38] <astraljava> Yeah, me too; again with the releasability, I would not release such an image where file browsing of removable media doesn't work. :)
[14:38] <balloons> well, my idea was the terms are confusing and unneeded. Simply note the bugs filed when they happen
[14:38] <balloons> lp will take care of severity
[14:38] <astraljava> That's true. So we'll just figure out inside the project, whether the bug constitutes the test as failing or passing?
[14:39] <balloons> well, I mean if the test fails, it fails
[14:39] <balloons> etheir way you note the bugs
[14:40] <balloons> as far as when you release and what you release it's up to the team
[14:40] <balloons> you can release note (almost) anything ;-0
[14:40] <astraljava> Right. Well let me put it another way; are there situations where a point in the testcase fails, but will not fail the whole test?
[14:41] <astraljava> Or are all points critical in that sense; fail any, and the whole test is marked as failed.
[14:43] <balloons> astraljava, right.. as of now, everything is crticial
[14:43] <balloons> if ANYTHING fails, the whole thing fails
[14:43] <astraljava> Ok, thanks. We'll just have to be careful with the wording, then. Cheers! :)
[14:43] <astraljava> ..
[14:44] <balloons> ok, from my end, I'll be quick, we're running out of time. phillw and myself prototyped out the structure for the new testcase mgmt on the tracker
[14:44] <balloons> i'll be migrating over the first testcases today and sending a mail off for feedback
[14:45] <balloons> so look for that, and be sure and share your thoughts. We'll discuss the admin side in more detail tomorrow @ the roundtable..
[14:46] <balloons> A new team has been created in order to help maintain testcases.. I'll be asking some folks who are already involved to help staff it. The goal is to get a good group of trusted folks to maintain and expand the tests over time
[14:47] <balloons> that said, anyone can 'file a bug' to add a new testcase or issue a correction to a testcase
[14:47] <balloons> The testcase format hasn't changed, but I will be sending it around as well
[14:47] <balloons> Any questions?
[14:48] <balloons> for flavors it should allow you to setup testcases for your images, using the ubuntu testcases as needed.. So it should work out nicely
[14:49] <astraljava> Looking forward to seeing that. Good job!
[14:49] <balloons> stgraber has been wonderful in helping us get this all done.. be sure and thank him
[14:50] <balloons> alrighty, any final questions or comments?
[14:50] <phillw> o/
[14:50] <balloons> yes phillw
[14:51] <phillw> I will not be here next meeting, I'm hoping to have cover in place; but cannot guarantee.
[14:51]  * balloons notes that his IRC client really refuses to tab-complete phillw's name
[14:52] <balloons> no worries phillw.
[14:52] <balloons> if no one is able to fill in, we'll catch up the following week
[14:52] <balloons> alright folks, that's a wrap!
[14:52] <balloons> thanks for coming out everyone
[14:52] <balloons> #endmeeting
[14:52] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun 20 14:52:58 2012 UTC.
[14:52] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-20-14.00.moin.txt
[14:52] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-20-14.00.html
[14:53] <phillw> thanks for chairing balloons
[14:53] <astraljava> Thanks guys!
[14:53] <balloons> thank you for coming ;-)
[15:00]  * xnox 0/
[15:00] <jodh> o/
[15:00]  * slangasek waves
[15:01] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 20 15:01:30 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:01] <stokachu> o/
[15:01] <slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
[15:01] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
[15:01] <slangasek> cjwatson stgraber ev infinity doko bdmurray ogra stokachu barry jodh xnox slangasek
[15:03]  * xnox in security team they play tag during lightning round. Somebody goes first, and then at the end chooses who goes next. keeps people on their toes & make them follow the meeting ;-)
[15:03] <cjwatson> Some minor merges and syncs.
[15:03] <cjwatson> Converted apt-setup to new world order for dpkg multiarch configuration.
[15:03] <cjwatson> Experimenting with efilinux's interface.
[15:03] <cjwatson> Got per-pocket upload permissions working, and deployed them for -backports and -security.
[15:03] <cjwatson> Finished LP API exports needed for new-style change-override.
[15:03] <cjwatson> Fixed a bug where lp/debian/+source/* imports get confused for Debian source packages that require DEB_VENDOR=debian to extract correctly.
[15:03] <cjwatson> Worked on making Archive.copyPackage work for the security team.
[15:03] <cjwatson> ..
[15:04] <xnox> cjwatson: yeah. is that for lp only or for package-import as well? the DEB_VENDOR bit?
[15:05] <cjwatson> LP only
[15:05] <stgraber> sorry, still typing
[15:05] <cjwatson> udd probably ought to do it but I don't work on that :)
[15:06] <ev> stgraber: shall I go while you finish?
[15:06] <xnox> cjwatson: ok.
[15:07] <slangasek> ev: go ahead
[15:08] <ev> - Updated average time between failures to the latest nvd3 goodness and told
[15:08] <ev>   it to fetch up to 30 days (efficiently) at a time, so you should start to
[15:08] <ev>   see a better picture being formed once that gets deployed.
[15:08] <ev> - Cleaned up the problem pages on errors.ubuntu.com. We now have colorized
[15:08] <ev>   traces for both binary and interpreted crashes.
[15:08] <ev> - Wrote an LEP for the bugs to fixed binary packages work in Launchpad.
[15:08] <ev>   Waiting to hear back from Francis and Rob:
[15:08] <ev>   https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BugsToFixedBinaries
[15:08] <ev> - Had a long conversation with pitti over the design of the duplicates
[15:08] <ev>   database. The existing model lets multiple crash signatures exist and has an
[15:08] <ev>   algorithm to map duplicate bug reports to the correct master bug report for
[15:08] <ev>   a given signature. We agreed that this wasn't ideal. This is especially so
[15:08] <ev>   given that errors.ubuntu.com effectively uses crash signatures as a primary
[15:08] <ev>   key and I've run head first into this in attempting to weld apport's
[15:08] <ev>   - Duplicating lots of bugs to a single bug used to cause timeouts.
[15:08] <ev>   - Before we had nice controls around per bug mail notification people would
[15:08] <ev>     get spammed with messages they didn't care about.
[15:08] <ev>   - Sometimes two distinct problems share the same crash signature.
[15:08] <ev>   The first two points are resolved and the second one needs to be addressed
[15:08] <ev>   properly. So we agreed that the following will be done:
[15:08] <ev>   - We'll have a single master bug for a given crash signature.
[15:08] <ev>   - As the problem gets fixed in releases, the release task status will be
[15:08] <ev>     changed.
[15:08] <ev>   - We'll let developers split apart crashes with the same signature by
[15:08] <ev>     creating a new signature using the server-side apport hooks.
[15:08] <ev> - Since we didn't have a team meeting last week, you fortunately missed my
[15:08] <ev>   detailed whinging of why talking to Launchpad as a web service is a road
[15:08] <ev>   paved with landmines. I was going to build a celery worker to service
[15:08] <ev>   requests to communicate with Launchpad, but I talked with Rob about it some
[15:08] <ev>   more and he felt that the more expedient option of talking straight HTTP to
[15:08] <ev>   Launchpad's API was acceptable.
[15:08] <ev>   - So I wrote code to do just this for the case of creating bugs
[15:08] <ev>     from the errors.ubuntu.com front page as part of the e.u.c API and bound
[15:08] <ev>     the AJAX code I had written for handling this POST operation to it. I'm
[15:08] <ev>     also going to have the bucketing process automatically create these bugs
[15:08] <ev>     when the instance count gets above 30 or so, so you'll likely rarely see
[15:08] <ev>     the 'create bug' links or care about them.
[15:09] <ev> - Started writing the Daisy (Cassandra) apport crashdb implementation
[15:09] <ev>   (lp:~ev/apport/daisy-duplicates-db) as eluded to above. This will let
[15:09] <ev>   crash-digger and the daisy.ubuntu.com retracers share knowledge of the
[15:09] <ev>   mapping of crash signatures to bugs. This in turn will let us have 'create
[15:09] <ev>   bug' links on http://errors.ubuntu.com and is required for the 'fixed binary
[15:09] <ev>   packages for a given crash signature' work.
[15:09] <ev> - Verified the latest USB disks for the shop.
[15:09] <ev> - Started implementing errors from hanging applications in apport
[15:09] <ev>   (lp:~ev/apport/reports-from-hangs) now that we have an approach that the
[15:09] <ev>   security team is happy with:
[15:09] <ev>   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/whoopsie-daisy/+bug/1006398
[15:09] <ev> - Looked into handling hanging Python applications with help from Colin:
[15:09] <ev>   https://bugs.launchpad.net/whoopsie/+bug/1015080
[15:09] <ev> - Started implementing recoverable error reporting in apport.
[15:09] <ev> - Fixed some minor bugs in lp:daisy and lp:errors.
[15:09] <ev> - Landed my libwhoopsie branch on trunk and released a new version.
[15:09] <ev> - Landed by 'show previous crash reports' branch on lp:activity-log-manager.
[15:09] <ev>   Cleaned things up for a release, but after talking with the zeitgeist guys
[15:09] <ev>   that wont be until next week.
[15:09] <ev> (done)
[15:09]  * stgraber is ready now
[15:09] <infinity> Is it just me, or are the novels getting longer?
[15:09]  * xnox is there a pager plugin for xchat?
[15:09] <ev> infinity: :)
[15:09] <ogra_> infinity, they are
[15:09] <stokachu> i cant read fast enough
[15:10] <stgraber> - 12.04.1
[15:10] <stgraber>  - Preparing team meeting, team meeting and meeting notes.
[15:10] <stgraber>  - Helped verify a few items in the queue
[15:10] <stgraber> - Containers
[15:10] <stgraber>  - Improved our apparmor profiles to be easier to edit/fork by our users
[15:10] <stgraber>  - Converted Serge's initial work on liblxc into a quilt patch
[15:10] <stgraber>  - Implemented python3-lxc, a python C binding of liblxc0 with some python overrides
[15:10] <stgraber>  - Got test packages built and published in my PPA
[15:10] <stgraber>  - Working on updating the bindings as Serge implements new features in liblxc
[15:10] <stgraber>  - Still need some more work on memory/error management in my C code...
[15:10] <stgraber> - ISO tracker
[15:10] <stgraber>  - Implemented the remaining items from the QA team
[15:10] <stgraber>  - Merged the testcase management branches into their respective trunk branches
[15:10] <stgraber>  - Got IS to deploy the new code and ran the DB upgrade, so far all looks good
[15:10] <stgraber>  - Worked on a few minor UI fixes that should land later this week
[15:10] <stgraber> - Networking
[15:11] <stgraber>  - Posted a long reply to a bridge-utils Debian bug, trying to explain how that
[15:11] <stgraber>    even based networking stuff works in Ubuntu.
[15:11] <stgraber> - Other
[15:11] <stgraber>  - Patch pilot on Friday
[15:11] <stgraber> - TODO this week
[15:11] <stgraber>  - Minor bugfixes to the ISO tracker
[15:11] <stgraber>  - More LXC work on the API and python binding, hoping to have something we can send
[15:11] <stgraber>    upstream over the next few weeks.
[15:11] <stgraber>  - Go through the networking bugs, merge/sync the networking packages, including bumping isc-dhcp
[15:11] <stgraber>    to 4.2. SRU any important fix found while doing that.
[15:11] <stgraber>  - Continue going through the pending-sru and help for these that are stuck on verification-needed
[15:11] <stgraber> (DONE)
[15:11] <stgraber> oh, and I'll be off on Monday (Quebec day)
[15:12] <infinity> - Lots of PlusOneMaint fixing, sponsoring and archiveadminning
[15:12] <infinity> - Dealt with several SRU kernels
[15:12] <infinity> - Hunted down one mono/armel bug, only to find that the natty kernels are giving us more issues; this needs escalating
[15:12] <infinity> - dpkg merge done, with upgrade fallout needing to be dealt with
[15:12] <infinity> - debhelper merge and eglibc fix in to match the new dpkg
[15:12] <infinity> ...
[15:12]  * infinity needs to write these things earlier, so he can be as verbose as the cool kids.
[15:12] <slangasek> ev: I think one of your sentences got cut off ;) "weld apport's [...]"
[15:12] <xnox> ev: so did you have to manually adjust the sizes of the usbsticks to make them fit for validation purposes?
[15:12] <ogra_> infinity, dont ! i have to summarize it for the release meeting
[15:12] <ev> slangasek: rubbish, okay….pasting
[15:13] <doko> - gcc-4.7 c++11/c++98 ABI issues
[15:13] <doko> - python3 porting jam
[15:13] <doko> - python3.3 updates, and cross builds
[15:13] <doko> ..
[15:14] <ev>   key and I've run head first into this in attempting to weld apport's
[15:14] <ev>   duplicates database into daisy's Cassandra database. The reasons for this
[15:14] <ev>   behavior were as follows:
[15:14] <ev>   - Duplicating lots of bugs to a single bug used to cause timeouts.
[15:14] <ev>   - Before we had nice controls around per bug mail notification people would
[15:14] <ev>     get spammed with messages they didn't care about.
[15:14] <ev>   - Sometimes two distinct problems share the same crash signature.
[15:14] <ev>   The first two points are resolved and the second one needs to be addressed
[15:14] <ev>   properly. So we agreed that the following will be done:
[15:14] <ev>   - We'll have a single master bug for a given crash signature.
[15:14] <ev>   - As the problem gets fixed in releases, the release task status will be
[15:14] <ev>     changed.
[15:14] <ev>   - We'll let developers split apart crashes with the same signature by
[15:14] <ev>     creating a new signature using the server-side apport hooks.
[15:14] <ev> - Since we didn't have a team meeting last week, you fortunately missed my
[15:14] <ev>   detailed whinging of why talking to Launchpad as a web service is a road
[15:14] <ev>   paved with landmines. I was going to build a celery worker to service
[15:14] <ev>   requests to communicate with Launchpad, but I talked with Rob about it some
[15:14] <ev>   more and he felt that the more expedient option of talking straight HTTP to
[15:14] <ev>   Launchpad's API was acceptable.
[15:14] <ev> hopefully that fills the gap
[15:14] <ev> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1051056/ - in case it doesnt
[15:14] <bdmurray> porting of update-notifier to python3
[15:14] <bdmurray> added in dist-upgrade tag to apport package failures in update-manager
[15:14] <bdmurray> made apport not report 'dpkg-deb --control returned error exit status 2' package install failures
[15:14] <bdmurray> set up rls-q-incoming report in arsenal and on cranberry
[15:14] <bdmurray> set up ubuntu-bugcontrol-tools branch which is separate from ubuntu-qa-tools branch
[15:14] <bdmurray> updated bugsquad greasemonkey tags and replies
[15:15] <bdmurray> wrote code to check to see if bugs for which a bug pattern has been written are fixed
[15:15] <bdmurray> removing bug patterns that exist for fixed bug reports that are no longer needed
[15:15] <bdmurray> blog post regarding lp-bug-dupe-properties being merged and how awesome it is
[15:15] <bdmurray> landed launchpad branch for bug 912137
[15:15] <bdmurray> Launchpad bug fix for bug 826864 (created_before searchTasks parameter in API)
[15:15] <bdmurray> . done .
[15:15]  * jodh thinks his eyes may have reached todays byte quota.
[15:15] <bdmurray> hmm not that bug
[15:15] <slangasek> doko: the c++11/c++98 discussion on ubuntu-devel seems to have stalled; can you send a mail today, to make sure the desktop team knows what they need to do to get un-stuck?
[15:16] <ogra_> done:
[15:16] <ogra_> * some flash-kernel fixes
[15:16] <ogra_> * merges
[15:16] <ogra_> * started looking into livecd-rootfs to add diversions for flash-kernel where needed when building ac100
[15:16] <ogra_>   images, turned out to be a missing env var
[15:16] <ogra_> * work through ftbfs arm list
[15:16] <ogra_> * tested new nvidia-tegra driver with the quantal ac100 kernel
[15:16] <doko> ahh, yes, will do
[15:16] <ogra_> * piloting
[15:16] <ogra_> todo:
[15:16] <ogra_> * livefs switch for arm images
[15:16] <ogra_> * build ac100 again
[15:16] <ogra_> * upload nvidia tegra armhf driver to archive (was waiting for the 3.1 kernel)
[15:16] <ogra_> * add support for panda and ac100 to ubuntu-drivers-common
[15:16] <ogra_> …
[15:16]  * xnox wants lightlighting round in mobi format to read on my kindle ahead of meeting ;-)
[15:16] <slangasek> bdmurray: update-notifier> I believe I've landed your merge but didn't upload, fwiw
[15:16] <stokachu> * DONE http://pad.lv/496922 - Gave detailed instructions on how to extend snmp with external calls
[15:16] <stokachu> * TODO http://pad.lv/578536 - Backported 2 patches that address hanging automount and listing stale mount points in /proc/mounts during a re-read of map entr$
[15:16] <stokachu> * TODO http://pad.lv/951343 - SRU and merge proposal done, is now waiting on merge proposals to go through. (On track for 12.04.1)
[15:16] <stokachu> * DONE http://pad.lv/933903 - SRU added and pushed to precise-proposed (On track for 12.04.1)
[15:16] <stokachu> Data Not Available
[15:16] <stokachu> oops
[15:17] <stokachu> * TODO http://pad.lv/977952 - Blocked on http://pad.lv/977947 being completed.
[15:17] <stokachu> * TODO http://pad.lv/977940 - SRU complete, waiting on micahg response from comment #5. (On track for 12.04.1)
[15:17] <stokachu> * TODO http://pad.lv/977964 - SRU template written, needs debdiff for precise. (On track for 12.04.1)
[15:17] <stokachu> * DONE http://pad.lv/890928 - SRU complete, pushed to -proposed (On track for 12.04.1)
[15:17] <stokachu> * Additional Issues brought to my attention
[15:17] <stokachu> ** TODO http://pad.lv/979661 - Need to discuss with Foundations on status of case.
[15:17] <slangasek> bdmurray: in addition to the rls-q-incoming report, will you also set up a report for tracking accepted targeted bugs, please?
[15:17] <stokachu> ...
[15:17] <slangasek> (AFAIK we don't have that yet? or I don't know the URL)
[15:18] <bdmurray> slangasek: I'd thought that launchpad was sufficient for tracking those
[15:18] <slangasek> bdmurray: not afaik because we can't get the report directly from LP broken down by team :/
[15:18] <bdmurray> I had typoed bug 8268654
[15:18] <bdmurray> I had typoed bug 826854
[15:19] <bdmurray> slangasek: If the team accepted the bug won't they know about it?
[15:19] <barry> more python 3 porting: apturl (landed), python3-xapian (ongoing upstream discussion), libpeas (upstream supports it, needs packaging work, thanks xnox for the cdbs magic!). helped stgraber with some python3/lxc debugging.  patch piloted.  todo: continue with libpeas and xapian.  what's up with twisted?  done.
[15:20] <slangasek> bdmurray: not reliably? :)
[15:20] <slangasek> ogra_: is the livefs switch for arm images coming before alpha2?
[15:20] <ogra_> slangasek, i was planning to have that before yep
[15:20] <xnox> barry: i have further thoughts on the libpeas, will talk to you later.
[15:20] <bdmurray> slangasek: okay
[15:20] <barry> xnox: cool
[15:20] <ogra_> i'll start rolling manually built images tomorrow
[15:21] <ogra_> and see what falls over
[15:21] <stokachu> if someone has time to review http://pad.lv/951343 to get the merge proposal pushed into proposed i'd appreciate it
[15:21] <stgraber> stokachu: I can do that
[15:22] <stokachu> stgraber: great, thanks!
[15:22] <stokachu> xnox: i backported 2 patches for autofs, assuming test goes well do you think it'd be a problem getting SRU for lucid? Data Not Available
[15:22] <xnox> jodh: buffer overflow ? =)
[15:23] <stokachu> xnox: http://is.gd/RpIFyQ
[15:23] <stokachu> sorry, paste buffer is being stupid
[15:23] <xnox> stokachu: i have problems with 5.0.6, working on them. Will check if you picked up a broken patch or not which does check_nfs
[15:23] <slangasek> jodh: your turn
[15:24] <jodh> * boot/upstart: Working on stateful re-exec.
[15:24] <jodh>   - Can now mostly serialise and deserialise Sessions, Events and
[15:24] <jodh>     Processes in basic form and getting close with JobClasses.
[15:24] <jodh>   - Identified that we'll need json-c version 0.10 (currently beta)
[15:24] <jodh>     for Upstart as previous library versions don't appear to provide
[15:24] <jodh>     the ability to detect garbage JSON data which can lead to crashes.
[15:24] <jodh> j
[15:25] <xnox> stokachu: did you right the patch or did you backported/cherrypicked stuff?
[15:25] <slangasek> is 'j' the unicode 'done' marker of the day? :)
[15:25] <stokachu> xnox: cherry picked
[15:25] <ogra_> excess flood ?
[15:25] <xnox> stokachu: ok.
[15:25] <jodh> slangasek: yeah. It's a good letter :)
[15:25] <slangasek> jodh: heh
[15:25] <slangasek> jodh: do you know when json-c 0.10 is due out?
[15:26]  * xnox should it not be "-- Sir J." ?! =)
[15:26] <jodh> slangasek: no - will chase up on that.
[15:26] <xnox> may I?
[15:26] <slangasek> xnox: yes
[15:26] <xnox> * python sprint: helped porting apt-btrfs-snapshot,
[15:26] <xnox>   ubuntu-drivers-common, apparmor. Helped with packaging
[15:26] <xnox>   questions. The funny one, was libpeas with cdbs flavor's build
[15:26] <xnox>   helpers with barry.
[15:26] <xnox> * became a core-dev! made good progress on boost1.49, only a couple of
[15:26] <xnox>   merges gcc-4.7/ftbs left to complete that transition
[15:26] <xnox> * verified that http://lwn.net/Articles/502482/ is fix-released across
[15:27] <xnox>   affected kernels in all releases (precise, quantal)
[15:27] <xnox> * LVM ubiquity design is in progress, unblocked - there are things
[15:27] <xnox>   that I can start implementing
[15:27] <xnox> * waiting for somebody with ubiquity/partman knowledge to respond to
[15:27] <xnox>   an email on ubuntu-installer mailing list
[15:27] <xnox> * had various discussions on how to make raid more reliable in private
[15:27] <xnox>   email and bug reports on launchpad (there is more scope post-quantal
[15:27] <xnox>   for hardware raid & network attached raid's)
[15:27] <xnox> * merged latest mdadm, need to test it then it will be ready for
[15:27] <xnox>   upload
[15:27] <jodh> xnox: did I miss something in the birthday honours list? :)
[15:27] <xnox> * merged latest autofs, discovered that upstream added an extra fork
[15:27] <xnox>   in the pre-demonisation. This broke the current upstart job. With
[15:27] <xnox>   jodh's help, we pinned it down. Need to write a small patch, retest,
[15:27] <xnox>   submit to debian/upstream, and upload to quantal.
[15:27] <xnox> * the new UTAH (ubuntu test automation harness) for automatic testing
[15:27] <xnox>   is not yet fully ready yet. I should be able to start writing
[15:27] <xnox>   automated boot/failure tests for raid/btrfs/lvm/grub in a 1-2 weeks,
[15:27] <xnox>   according to gemma. Subscribed to utah-devel and tracking progress.
[15:27] <xnox> * did progress on drafting Event Driven initramfs (jump in work
[15:27] <xnox>   items). Still needs more copy editing & detailed transition plan of
[15:27] <xnox>   all the initramfs top/bottom/etc/ scripts to upstart. Similar
[15:27] <xnox>   analysis was previously done, but needs to be revisited for quantal.
[15:27] <xnox> #action xnox to deal with dpkg fallout
[15:27] <meetingology> ACTION: xnox to deal with dpkg fallout
[15:27]  * xnox wonders if that went through or not....
[15:27] <stgraber> stokachu: uploaded
[15:27] <xnox> jodh: it's the perk for working on upstart
[15:28] <stokachu> stgraber: perfect thank you :D
[15:28] <infinity> xnox: I have no overwhelming urge to own dpkg, but if you need a sounding board for ideas (and I imagine you will, doesn't seem like the sort of thing that should be done in a vacuum), hit me up.
[15:29] <xnox> infinity: ok, thank you. I haven't yet hacked dpkg itself. so it might be steep or not.
[15:29] <slangasek> cjwatson, ev, stgraber: have you seen the mail to ubuntu-installer that xnox mentions above he's waiting for a response to?
[15:29] <stgraber> stokachu: I only saw jamespage's comments in the merge proposals after uploading, so it's not impossible they both get rejected as the changelog entry is indeed not really descriptive of the problem/fix
[15:30] <stokachu> stgraber: ah hopefully arges will follow up with that
[15:30] <stgraber> stokachu: I also had to change the version number and pocket + run update-maintainer for it to match the SRU policies
[15:30] <ev> huh, I don't seem to be getting mails from it
[15:30] <cjwatson> slangasek: yes, in my queue :-/
[15:30] <stokachu> stgraber: im just the messenger on that one
[15:30] <ev> I wonder if I'm subscribed with evand@
[15:30] <slangasek> dpkg in a vacuum sounds like a good way to burn out the motor
[15:31] <slangasek> ev: do you think you could pluck that out of cjwatson's queue? :)
[15:31] <cjwatson> Hah
[15:31] <stgraber> stokachu: well, it's a bit late to follow up as I already uploaded it ;) but they are definitely good remarks that apply to any SRU
[15:31] <ev> just digging up the email
[15:31] <stokachu> stgraber: ok ill make sure to relay that to arges
[15:31] <slangasek> my go then?
[15:31] <slangasek>  * partner archive work
[15:31] <slangasek>  * dpkg multiarch triggers syntax fix-up (bug #1015329)
[15:31] <slangasek>  * internal discussions around SecureBoot
[15:31] <slangasek>  * meeting last week to discuss structuring the SRU team work effectively
[15:31] <slangasek> (done)
[15:32] <slangasek> any questions?
[15:32] <xnox> ev: quick summary: to support different types per recipe (normal/lvm/lukslvm) the data structure in ubi-partman needs to be extended with multiple recipes per disk / installation method (where method is whole disk, resize, biggest free)
[15:32] <xnox> ev: i wasn't sure what is the best way to go about supporting that.
[15:33] <xnox> slangasek: the SRU team work bit, did that get posted? I saw that skaet promised summaries meeting notes or something.
[15:33] <cjwatson> xnox: it's possible you'll need to beef up the backend, as some of the guided partitioning methods don't offer a disk choice
[15:33] <cjwatson> I wouldn't have thought recipes were the first concern though
[15:34] <slangasek> xnox: ah, there's a google doc at present
[15:34] <xnox> cjwatson: aha, true. I'll do a prototype and see how it will bullet trace ;-)
[15:34] <stokachu> this may be out of place but i think stgraber should get a reward for all the hardwork he's doing between 12.04.1, qa, and dev :D
[15:34] <slangasek> I don't know if skaet was planning to post the minutes more publically than that - we all have action items to update the wiki documentation though
[15:35] <skaet> slangasek,  I'll put out a cleaned up summary
[15:35] <slangasek> ok
[15:35] <xnox> slangasek: ok. fair enough. it was not clear if it was public / only-people-from-the-meeting
[15:36]  * xnox wonders if skaet lurks in every meeting? =))))
[15:36] <slangasek> stokachu: we'll double stgraber's weekly stipend of kudos ;-)
[15:36] <stokachu> lol
[15:36] <infinity> slangasek: Do you know, off-hand, if we can escalate the buildd upgrades any further than they've already been escalated? :P
[15:36] <stokachu> or a "kool kat of the week" poster
[15:36] <stokachu> :P
[15:36] <stokachu> or just a drawing on a sheet of paper would work too
[15:36] <slangasek> infinity: last I saw the ticket was waiting for a response from you
[15:36] <xnox> cjwatson: I see your point about concern's priority. it looked to me as the next thing to do, while the design / manual partitioner was pending.
[15:37] <cjwatson> slangasek: not as of a few minutes ago
[15:37] <infinity> slangasek: Yeah, I responded with a list of "all the buildds".
[15:37] <slangasek> ok
[15:38] <ev> xnox: adding to the above, options and extra_options aren't set in stone, but if you do change them, be careful to make sure you change them everywhere. That code isn't well tested yet.
[15:38] <ev> And hey, it's an excellent opportunity to build some unit tests in :)
[15:38] <cjwatson> Yeah
[15:38]  * xnox ok. thank you guys.
[15:38] <cjwatson> On all counts
[15:38] <slangasek> infinity: it should already be near the top of the priority list then; I can attach a deadline to the ticket if there actually is one
[15:38] <ev> :)
[15:39] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[15:39] <cjwatson> slangasek: make one up, everyone else does
[15:39] <infinity> slangasek: Can it be in the past? :P
[15:39] <bdmurray> bug 1013276 may be fall out from our work
[15:39] <slangasek> infinity: did someone die when we failed to meet it? :-P
[15:39] <cjwatson> slangasek: it's not desperately high up the list on https://portal.admin.canonical.com/q/ubuntu_engineering though
[15:40] <cjwatson> On Python 3 porting: I had some feedback on http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=625509 to the effect that Python 3.3 arranges for subprocess.Popen(universal_newlines=True) to influence the handling of stdin as well as of stdout/stderr; so we may need to account for that in work we've done so far.
[15:40] <xnox> slangasek: a good deadline is 3 weeks before precise+1 freeze, but before the next archive rebuild for q :P made up, soon, sounds like a pressing goal
[15:40] <cjwatson> bdmurray: urgh
[15:41] <cjwatson> ... but how?
[15:41]  * barry can take a look at the um bugs
[15:41] <stokachu> none of this would be an issue if it was all written in lisp :X
[15:41] <ev> because none of it would be written
[15:41] <ev> :-P
[15:41] <barry> stokachu: forth
[15:41] <stokachu> LOL
[15:42] <cjwatson> It's in the same package and everything
[15:42] <cjwatson>  ProcCmdline: /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/update-manager
[15:42] <cjwatson> Oh
[15:42]  * xnox hhhmmmm lisp. btw emacs24 still didn't ping the maintainer about the plans
[15:42] <cjwatson> I wonder what's invoking that with Python 2
[15:42] <barry> xnox: let's get emacs24 for q!
[15:42] <slangasek> instead of calling it directly?  weird
[15:42] <bdmurray> oh strange I'd missed that
[15:43] <stokachu> if only chromium ran within emacs i'd never need a DE again
[15:44] <cjwatson> Unless I'm misunderstanding - but on my system update-manager is #!/usr/bin/python3.2
[15:44] <cjwatson> (which is a bug in itself, that should be #!/usr/bin/python3)
[15:44] <barry> stokachu: x is just the bagel bringing you the lox of emacs
[15:44] <bdmurray> I wonder if there is some checking we should do in apport for the InterpreterPath
[15:44] <ogra_> ++
[15:44] <stokachu> barry: lol agreed
[15:44] <infinity> I'd assume it's the old update-manager?
[15:44] <xnox> stokachu: there were patches for embedable gtk viewports into emacs windows. So epiphany/gtk-webkit should be doable and there was a demo of that.
[15:44] <cjwatson> infinity: Package: update-manager 1:0.163
[15:44] <cjwatson> which is new
[15:44] <stokachu> xnox: sweet im checking that out
[15:45] <infinity> cjwatson: Is this not mid-upgrade?  It doesn't (un)cleverly re-exec itself at some point, does it?
[15:45] <xnox> infinity: .... it kind of does if you abort for example. ANd how would you be ever be running the new update-manager on the old system?
[15:46]  * xnox thought that upgrade-manager bugs will start appearing in Qunatal -> R upgrades
[15:46] <slangasek> the bug report says the system was installed from 12.10 media, so this should be a pretty ordinary situation
[15:46] <infinity> Well, I mean you could start with the old, upgrade, and then have the old attempt to re-exec "itself" with its old cmdline, which would then end up calling the python3 version with python2... *hand wavy random guessing*
[15:46] <xnox> ah, ok.
[15:47] <slangasek> can someone follow up to the bug and ask the submitter how u-m was being run?  I don't think we want to spend more time in the meeting speculating
[15:47]  * xnox confused update-manager and upgrade-manager
[15:47] <cjwatson> infinity: If it re-execs itself, you'd hope it'd honour the #!
[15:47] <bdmurray> I think cjwatson did already
[15:47] <slangasek> ok
[15:47] <slangasek> bdmurray: other bugs?
[15:47] <bdmurray> bug 1013511 regarding usb-creator
[15:48]  * xnox takes it
[15:48] <xnox> i think i was affected as well
[15:48] <bdmurray> great that just leaves bug 929092 which has a patch or two
[15:49] <xnox> well one branch had loads of conflicts, I marked it 'needs-fixing' minutes after it was submitting
[15:49] <xnox> didn't see the other branch
[15:50] <xnox> well, because it was not proposed for a merge & I am not subscribed to that bugmail
[15:50] <xnox> i could review it, but maybe someone else wants it?
[15:51] <ev> not it
[15:51] <slangasek> xnox: are you talking about bug #929092 now?
[15:51] <xnox> slangasek: yes.
[15:51] <xnox>  448        if len(passphrase) > 8 and \
[15:51] <xnox>  449           len(passphrase) < 64 :
[15:51] <xnox>  450            return True
[15:51] <xnox>  451        if len(passphrase) == 64:
[15:51] <xnox>  452            for c in passphrase:
[15:51] <xnox>  453                if not c in string.hexdigits: return False
[15:51] <xnox>  454            return True
[15:51] <cjwatson> infinity: (anyway, fwiw, the dpkg terminal log doesn't seem to indicate that's mid-upgrade)
[15:51] <xnox>  455        else:
[15:51] <xnox>  456            return False
[15:51] <cjwatson> (from timing)
[15:51] <xnox> looks beautiful.....
[15:51] <infinity> cjwatson: Yeah, I noticed that after the random guessing.
[15:52] <slangasek> stgraber: maybe you want to have a look at this bug, given that it involves strange corner cases with wireless?
[15:53] <stgraber> slangasek: yeah, I can take a look
[15:53] <slangasek> assigned
[15:53]  * xnox want's to type a 9 character passphrase with a unicode character in between
[15:53] <slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
[15:53] <bdmurray> slangasek: nope
[15:53] <slangasek> stokachu mentioned bug #979661 in his lightning round
[15:54] <slangasek> as "Need to discuss with Foundations" - shall we discuss? :)
[15:55] <stokachu> sure, so this was brought to my attention from a coworker
[15:55] <slangasek> cjwatson: AIUI update-manager is supposed to be detecting a terminal prompt, and that's not happening
[15:55] <slangasek> is that your understanding?
[15:55]  * slangasek targets to 12.04.1
[15:56] <stokachu> slangasek: would you mind setting importance to high as well?
[15:56] <mvo>   * fix automatic expand of the terminal if no activity happend
[15:56] <mvo>     for >300s (LP: #993190)
[15:56] <mvo> this one?
[15:56] <slangasek> stokachu: yes, because I just set it to critical instead ;D
[15:56] <slangasek> mvo: yes
[15:56] <stokachu> lol sweet
[15:56] <mvo> this needs reupload to proposed
[15:56] <mvo> its in the precise branch of u-m
[15:57] <slangasek> mvo: thanks
[15:57] <cjwatson> still a hack though
[15:57] <mvo> yes :/
[15:57] <cjwatson> expanding after five minutes - well, it might help for some people, depending on their attention span
[15:57] <slangasek> yes... but a hack may be the best we can hope for in time for 12.04.1
[15:57] <cjwatson> isn't there a way to tell whether the terminal is waiting for input
[15:57] <cjwatson> ?
[15:58]  * xnox grep the dpkg.log?
[15:58] <cjwatson> it's using vte, it ought to be able to do better than that
[15:58] <xnox> or some other debconf log
[15:58] <cjwatson> we shouldn't be relying on logs heree
[15:59] <slangasek> cjwatson: I think we should go with the hack for now and revisit at leisure... this bug is actively confusing users right now and leaving them with no idea why their upgrade has stalled
[16:00] <cjwatson> oh, I agree, it just makes me queasy
[16:00]  * slangasek nods
[16:00] <cjwatson> as long as we aren't under the impression that this actually fixes the bug
[16:00] <slangasek> ack
[16:00] <slangasek> cjwatson: do you want to open a separate, lower-prio bug for the more fundamental issue?
[16:01] <cjwatson> sure
[16:01] <slangasek> thanks
[16:01] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:01] <slangasek> anything else?
[16:01] <ev> how have people handled in c what would normally be solved with dependency injection or mocking in other languages?
[16:01] <ev> Say I have a function that takes a c string and dispatches off to several different functions. How would you test that given a certain input it selects the right function? (In this case it's taking a response from the server and dispatching off to one of several functions to formulate a reply and send it)
[16:01] <stokachu> also could i get an update from micahg on http://pad.lv/977940
[16:01] <stokachu> from comment #5
[16:02] <slangasek> stokachu: I'm sure you could, but micahg's not on the foundations team ;)
[16:02] <ev> building the functions you'd want to mock out into a separate statically linked module, using global variables to track calls, was one suggestion
[16:02] <stokachu_> sorry lagging.. re http://pad.lv/977940
[16:02] <cjwatson> slangasek: do you know if the package installation failures in 979661 got handled?
[16:03] <slangasek> stokachu_: I'm sure you could, but micahg's not on the foundations team ;)
[16:03] <skaet> slangasek,  was there resolution on how the c++11 ABI issue was going to get handled with the desktop team?
[16:03] <xnox> skaet: slangasek asked doko to send a follow-up / reply
[16:03] <slangasek> skaet: the unity stack needs to explicitly build with g++-4.6 until the C++11 ABI settles in 4.7; I've asked doko to follow up to the mailing list so everyone's on the same page
[16:04]  * xnox sorry
[16:04] <slangasek> cjwatson: package installation failures> those weren't on my radar, sorry
[16:04] <cjwatson> filed bug 1015656
[16:04] <xnox> ev: i'm sure there was a mock library for either C or C++
[16:04] <stokachu_> slangasek: ah ok
[16:04] <ev> xnox: there's cmock, but it looks like a giant hack
[16:05] <slangasek> ev: sounds like we should probably take that to #ubuntu-devel maybe... I don't think there's going to be a quick answer for you :)
[16:05] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:05] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun 20 16:05:09 2012 UTC.
[16:05] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-20-15.01.moin.txt
[16:05] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-20-15.01.html
[16:05] <ev> slangasek: sure, I've got one more...
[16:05] <ev> noooooooo
[16:05] <slangasek> eh
[16:05] <ev> :)
[16:05] <slangasek> well spit it out :)
[16:05] <ev> If anyone has thoughts on the points Robert raised in the 'Quickly getting fixes to users' email, please do follow up. I've directed my attention to other work items for now, but I'm inclined to believe that this idea of providing a local copy of the CA certificate is a workable approach. So more importantly, if you have objections, raise them in that email thread :).
[16:05] <ev> done!
[16:05] <cjwatson> slangasek: never mind, I've managed to misunderstand the log twice, even given a comment from me in the bug indicating that I'd misunderstood it previously
[16:05] <cjwatson> (package installation failures)
[16:05] <slangasek> cjwatson: aha :)
[16:05] <slangasek> ev: ack, thanks
[16:05] <slangasek> and thanks everyone
[16:05] <ev> thanks!
[16:05] <barry> thanks!
[16:05] <xnox> thanks
[16:05] <stgraber> thanks!
[16:06] <infinity> o/
[16:06] <ogra_> thanks !
[16:06] <cjwatson> ev: it's not a dynamic language, I doubt you'll find any approach that *isn't* a giant hack in some way
[16:06] <stokachu_> thanksssss
[16:06] <skaet> thanks xnox, slangasek,  missed that in the scrollback.
[16:06]  * xnox there is always an odd one
[16:06] <cjwatson> mocking is kind of one of the things dynamic languages are intrinsically better at
[16:06]  * xnox was referring to infinity's wave
[16:06] <ev> cjwatson: yeah, but some hacks are easier to maintain than others, and stuff that requires lots of preprocessor work worries me
[16:06] <ev> I have no doubt this will not be easy either way :)
[16:07] <ev> brb
[16:07] <cjwatson> I would say that you use what facilities present themselves :)
[16:07] <xnox> ev: me wonders if you can do python binding on top for unit testing ;-)
[16:07] <cjwatson> but I agree that it would be better to test the same objects you're shipping, if possible
[16:07] <cjwatson> there's always LD_PRELOAD and other such linker tricks
[16:08]  * xnox used to write unittest binaries, link against the library and make the binary print loads of debug output and assert that output against known good / expected.
[16:08] <xnox> but that's not really helping with ev's case
[16:08] <cjwatson> gdb script? :-P
[16:08] <slangasek> historically I would've said "library interposition", but we've kinda made that useless by defaulting to -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions now
[16:11] <xnox> ev: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/65820/unit-testing-c-code third answer down
[16:11] <xnox> talks about mocking with google test framework
[16:11] <xnox> in C
[16:11] <xnox> =/
[16:18] <ev> xnox, cjwatson, slangasek: thanks
[20:03] <phillw> sorry, running a bit late
[20:03]  * MrChrisDruif wonders if Lubuntu will hold a meeting tonight
[20:03] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: are you still on #lubuntu channels?
[20:03] <MrChrisDruif> phillw; nope
[20:03] <MrChrisDruif> But I could join and ask
[20:04] <phillw> can you, I'll go check the wiki as to what is due to be discussed
[20:04] <phillw> aka agenda
[20:05] <MrChrisDruif> Who needs leadership anyway, right? ;-)
[20:05] <rafaellaguna> sorry, I'm late
[20:06] <MrChrisDruif> rafaellaguna; no, you aren't. You're early
[20:06] <rafaellaguna> ¿? nobody?
[20:06] <rafaellaguna> this is bad, 5 min past hour
[20:06] <phillw> hi rafaellaguna MrChrisDruif is just checking on #lubuntu to see if anyone is coming
[20:07] <MrChrisDruif> phillw; -offtopic as it's the team channel ;-)
[20:07] <rafaellaguna> :)
[20:07] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: anyone there?
[20:07] <phillw> rafaellaguna: I can, and have , hosted meetings before.
[20:07] <MrChrisDruif> 26, including me....but no responses
[20:08] <phillw> #startmeeting
[20:08] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 20 20:08:07 2012 UTC.  The chair is phillw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[20:08] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[20:08] <rafaellaguna> eey, said "bad" for me! :(
[20:08] <phillw> hi, can all those here say /o
[20:08] <phillw> (attendance record)
[20:08]  * MrChrisDruif lurks
[20:09] <rafaellaguna> o/
[20:09] <phillw> lol - I always get that wrong, as well. (no such command)
[20:10] <phillw> So, we have MrChrisDruif, bioterror, rafaellaguna only from Lubuntu?
[20:10] <rafaellaguna> anybody from Ubuntu?
[20:10] <rafaellaguna> this looks like Google+  :D
[20:11] <phillw> #topic Previous Actions
[20:11]  * phillw was detailed to provide a set of what a 'QA' admin was required to do.
[20:11] <phillw> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing/Administrator
[20:12] <phillw> this has been done.
[20:12] <rafaellaguna> must we publish the results anywhere?
[20:12] <phillw> As there are no notes posted from last weeks' meeting & this was dropped on me 2 minutes ago. I don't know if there were any other outstanding actions.
[20:13] <phillw> rafaellaguna: for what?
[20:13] <rafaellaguna> leadership
[20:13] <phillw> rafaellaguna: let me change topic?
[20:13] <rafaellaguna> sorry
[20:13] <phillw> #topic QA Report
[20:14] <rafaellaguna> must we make it public?
[20:14] <phillw> QA has been going well, there are some upcoming changes to the iso tracker that will make life of reporting / finding things easier
[20:14] <phillw> rafaellaguna: please be patient?
[20:15] <rafaellaguna> sorry again :|
[20:15] <phillw> Julien expects the changes to the default applications to arrive either just before, or shortly after Alpha 2.
[20:16] <phillw> They are doing a lot of work on this, so it should be fairly seemless integration into 12.10.
[20:17] <phillw> I'm also hopeful that the ppc guys will have ffox back as the only available browser available to them (it's that or, go try find one).
[20:17] <phillw> #topic IRC Team
[20:17] <phillw> Hi Unit193 can you give any knews?
[20:17] <phillw> -k
[20:18] <Unit193> What type you looking for? The OPs call went well enough, and mostly other thigns are going well.
[20:18] <phillw> Unit193: a nil to report is always good :)
[20:18] <Myrtti> channel access lists will be harmonized with Launchpad lists soonish, if not already in sync
[20:19] <Myrtti> have had a few trolls, they've been taken care of
[20:19] <phillw> thanks Myrtti
[20:19] <phillw> #topic wiki / docs
[20:19] <phillw> kanliot: what hae you to report?
[20:19] <phillw> *have
[20:20] <kanliot> going ok
[20:20] <kanliot> changes coming up
[20:20] <phillw> again, going okay is always good :)
[20:20] <kanliot> going to rework the faq pages into the main lubuntu wiki
[20:20] <kanliot> make it easy to find things
[20:20] <kanliot> really not doing much collaberation
[20:21] <MrChrisDruif> Last notice from the previous owner of that group on launchpad: kanliot has been made the new owner.
[20:21] <phillw> thanks MrChrisDruif
[20:22] <kanliot> done
[20:22] <phillw> #topic Comms team
[20:22] <phillw> is this still dormant?
[20:23] <phillw> yes.
[20:23] <phillw> #topic artwork
[20:23] <phillw> rafaellaguna: you have the floor!
[20:24] <rafaellaguna> :D
[20:24] <rafaellaguna> was just a question about leadership, if we have to notice anywhere
[20:24] <rafaellaguna> it should be comm stuff, isn't it?
[20:24] <rafaellaguna> important: the poll
[20:25] <phillw> rafaellaguna: that will be later in the meeting. How is the artwork & wall paper stuff going for 12.10?
[20:25] <rafaellaguna> we have space enough for up to 5 communit wallpapers
[20:25] <rafaellaguna> but we have no participation (1 submission)
[20:25] <rafaellaguna> any idea?
[20:25] <kanliot> yes, i was wondering just how the winners are chosen
[20:26] <rafaellaguna> kanlito: I can explain that
[20:26] <Unit193> I'd say wait a few days, may get more.
[20:26] <phillw> rafaellaguna: I can only suggest another call to the main mailing list, but we'll come back onto that in Any Other Business.
[20:26] <kanliot> i consdered doing a sarcastic walpaper but i had no idea why it would be rejected
[20:26] <rafaellaguna> *kanliot
[20:26] <rafaellaguna> sarcasm violates the Ubuntu specs
[20:26] <kanliot> oh really?
[20:26] <rafaellaguna> if any phisic person is involved
[20:27] <highvoltage> rafaellaguna: well, that's *just great*!
[20:27] <kanliot> lol
[20:27] <rafaellaguna> I get it :|
[20:27] <phillw> #topic Any Other Business
[20:27] <rafaellaguna> the resut will be decide by "all" the artwork team
[20:27] <phillw> please raise your hands thus o/
[20:28] <kanliot> o/
[20:28] <phillw> sorry rafaellaguna, I moved your answer, I'll correct it later
[20:28] <rafaellaguna> it's not my day :D
[20:28] <phillw> kanliot: you have the floor, please keep it brief
[20:29] <kanliot> oh you just said raise your hand
[20:29] <kanliot> i thought we were voting on something
[20:29] <phillw> rafaellaguna: this is my 4th meeting.
[20:29] <kanliot> sorry go on
[20:29] <phillw> kanliot: for AOB, it is raise your hand if you wish to speak :)
[20:30] <phillw> rafaellaguna: of the day... I want them all to finish soon :D
[20:30] <rafaellaguna> :D I know, anyway you're doing great
[20:30] <phillw> So, a call for any other business, any thing that has not been covered, any topics you'd like for next time etc. et.c
[20:31] <phillw> going once.....
[20:31] <phillw> going twice .....
[20:32] <Myrtti> rafaellaguna: you wanted to say something about leadership issues?
[20:32] <phillw> speak now or forever hold your peace
[20:32] <Myrtti> *now* is the time for that
[20:32] <rafaellaguna> YES!
[20:32] <rafaellaguna> I a bit lost about it
[20:32] <phillw> thanks Myrtti I thought he'd never chime in :)
[20:33] <phillw> rafaellaguna: please explain it how you see it at the moment
[20:33] <rafaellaguna> we have a leader, a team coordinator or both?
[20:34] <Unit193> The mailing list is a mess, but dev, forum, IRC, and artwork seem to still function well, just need to get the meetings working and it's set, no?  (As well as mailing list)
[20:34] <rafaellaguna> Unit193: it seems so
[20:35] <rafaellaguna> so there's no need for "elections"
[20:35] <phillw> rafaellaguna: mailing lists, are mailing lists. If I were to be brutally honest, I'd have removed myself.
[20:35] <phillw> same thing, month in, month out.
[20:35] <rafaellaguna> phillw: :D
[20:35] <phillw> but, let me give a different prospective.
[20:36] <phillw> > The lack of leadership at the moment seems to be harming Lubuntu.
[20:36] <phillw> I'm curious, what harm exactly ?
[20:36] <phillw> It's not because people don't write on the ml or don't participate to the useless top posting debate that nothing is done in the background.
[20:36] <phillw> Regards,
[20:36] <phillw> Julien Lavergne
[20:36] <Unit193> (Not all mailing lists are that bad, but I'm staying silent now)
[20:36] <rafaellaguna> I think exactly the same, but you said (right) there's a lot of mess
[20:36] <phillw> I remain on the Lubuntu-QA mailing list, we are getting along without this "spam", but, a general ML is for that.
[20:37] <rafaellaguna> so we're fine
[20:37] <kanliot> noise is one thing, confusion is another
[20:37] <phillw> All sub teams have a ML, and we all know who we are.
[20:37] <rafaellaguna> once purged the noise
[20:37] <rafaellaguna> agree
[20:38] <phillw> rafaellaguna: You may recall I actually checked on QA to ask why the silence was on it.... it was because they had nothing to report.
[20:39] <rafaellaguna> like us, we're working "in background" but working
[20:40] <phillw> I'd love to see that 'stuff' go to, say the area on face book that we have, but until they do. I just glance through the emails and, like facebook, see if there is anything worth replying to.
[20:41] <phillw> I was, however, amused when they suggested new mailing list groups for areas :D
[20:41] <rafaellaguna> yes, I saw
[20:41] <Unit193> Please remember this is still during a meeting.
[20:41] <phillw> I even answered
[20:42] <kanliot> i'm not happy with the level of leadership
[20:42] <phillw> Unit193: I see no reason for it be disbarred from A-O-B. in a meeting. It is the chance, on A-O-B for people to chat?
[20:43] <kanliot> at the very least i want somone around, who gets to quote rules of the mailing list to other people
[20:43] <phillw> but, with a complaint... those in favour of ending the meeting now, please vote as +1 (end) 0 (not bothered) -1 (keep meeting open)
[20:44] <phillw> #vote
[20:44] <meetingology> Please vote on:
[20:44] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:44] <rafaellaguna> +1
[20:44] <phillw> 0
[20:45] <phillw> anyone else care to vote?
[20:45] <phillw> going once.....
[20:45] <phillw> going twice ....
[20:45] <phillw> #endmeeting
[20:45] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun 20 20:45:52 2012 UTC.
[20:45] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-20-20.08.moin.txt
[20:45] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-20-20.08.html
[20:46] <phillw> thanks everyone for attending.
[20:46] <kanliot> thx for chairing
[20:46] <rafaellaguna> thank you, phillw
[20:47] <phillw> yvw, I
[23:13] <Iowan> quiet meeting...
[23:13] <CharlesA> Indeed.
[23:13] <coffeecat> I'll have to go soon if it doesn't start. Gone midnight here.
[23:14] <Iowan> Do we have a quorum? - me/you = not
[23:14] <coffeecat> I think we need 4 FC for a quorum.
[23:20] <Iowan> I posted a quick thread in SCC
[23:22] <CharlesA> Thanks Iowan
[23:26] <bkerensa> =o
[23:30] <coffeecat> Iowan, CharlesA, could you pass on my apologies if anything ever happens? 00:30 here. I'm going.
[23:31] <Iowan> Thanks for the attempt... I was afraid I had the wrong time.
[23:32] <coffeecat> Definitely the correct time.
[23:33] <Iowan> overdrank,  coffeecat was just leaving.
[23:33] <overdrank> I heard sorry I am late
[23:33] <Iowan> You aren't alone :)
[23:33] <Iowan> Meeting hasn't started
[23:34] <Iowan> ... but it may be finished
[23:35] <Iowan> Looks like a reschedule is in order.
[23:35] <overdrank> yep
[23:42] <Iowan> It's family night @ Scout camp. I gotta go get ready for program.
[23:42] <overdrank> have fun