[00:00] <Azelphur> grr, my cursor keeps disappearing in gedit
[00:00] <Azelphur> annoying :(
[00:00] <ali1234> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/06/19/1347212/apple-patents-polluting-facebook-google-profiles
[00:00] <ali1234> i actually came up with this idea earlier today!
[00:01] <Azelphur> xD
[00:05] <dogmatic69> ali1234: what you doing on slashdot? all the cool kids are on reddit :P
[00:05] <ali1234> er, no
[00:05] <ali1234> that's precisely why i don't go on it
[00:05] <dogmatic69> :D
[00:05] <ali1234> it's full of kids who think they are cool
[00:06] <ali1234> so today's rejected idea for the ubuntu app showdown was an app that fills zeitgeist with fake data
[00:06] <ali1234> because if you leave it on it tracsk everything you do, but if you turn it off it looks like you're hiding something
[00:07] <ali1234> so the only workable solution is to generate fake innocuous data... but it seems apple already patented that idea
[00:08] <ali1234> here's an idea for you: why hasn't anyone ever made a tablet with the touchscreen on the back?
[00:08] <dogmatic69> lol
[00:08] <ali1234> that way you can use it without your hand covering most of the display
[00:09] <dogmatic69> possibly the issue of not seeing what you are touching
[00:09] <ali1234> that's irrelevant
[00:09] <ali1234> when you use a mouse do you look at your hand? no
[00:09] <ali1234> you don't even look directly at the mouse point
[00:09] <ali1234> you look where you are clicking
[00:10] <ali1234> when you point at something in real life, do you look at your hand? no, you don't
[00:10] <ali1234> in fact with a normal tablet you can't see what you are touching, because your hand is in the way. this is the problem that my idea solves :)
[00:12] <ali1234> ok maybe it's a bad idea
[00:13] <dogmatic69> hehe
[07:02] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:16] <diplo> Morningall
[07:16]  * diplo smashes his space bar :(
[07:37]  * AlanBell is on a boat
[07:37] <DJones> diplo: Itwasbrokenbefore,noneedtobreakeverybodyelsesviatheinternet
[07:37] <mattt> AlanBell: why ?
[07:38] <AlanBell> London Eye to Canary Wharf
[07:38] <mattt> oh nice :)
[07:38] <mattt> AlanBell: btw, i meant to show you something the other week
[07:39] <AlanBell> put it away quick, here comes the nurse
[07:39] <mattt> i follow @LinuxFreelancer on twitter, and there was a tweet about someone needing help w/ openerp
[07:39] <AlanBell> oh cool
[07:39] <mattt> yeah, meant to mention it, but it slipped my mind :(
[07:39] <mattt> brb
[07:45] <diplo> DJones: It's been broken since new, I was to lazy to get it fixed :(
[07:45] <christel> AlanBell: there was an impressive turnout of 19 people last night!
[07:46] <AlanBell> nice
[07:49] <christel> yeah!
[07:53] <popey> Morning
[08:00] <daubers> christel: What for?
[08:00] <mattt> daubers: the secret party you weren't invited to!
[08:01]  * mattt has no idea either
[08:01] <christel> daubers: the surrey/hants hackerspace meeting
[08:01] <christel> popey: you'll be pleased to know that we changed every other meeting to be on thursdays and that we volunteered you for the Looking at Venues team! ;)
[08:03] <MartijnVdS> Looking at Venus!
[08:05] <popey> uhhhhhh
[08:05] <popey> ok!
[08:09] <daubers> christel: One day I'll get down to one of those, see if there's anything at Reading we can do to help
[08:14] <christel> awesome, we had a few people from the reading one turn up
[08:27] <mattt> daubers: there's one in reading ?  got details ?
[08:30] <daubers> mattt: http://www.readinghackspace.org.uk
[08:32] <nperry> morn o/
[08:32] <daubers> mattt: and #reading-hackspace :)
[08:32] <daubers> though it tends to be a bit quiet
[08:33] <Guest40145> Why do some ISOs only burn on CD-R or DVD-R
[08:33] <Guest40145> why isn't it universial?
[08:34] <nperry> Guest40145: You can only fit 700mb iso or less on CD-R
[08:36] <Guest40145> yeah but why do some vendors only recommend -R and not +R
[08:37] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[08:41] <DJones> From memory, weren't -R and +R differing technologies by different manufacturers so they were all promoting their own version
[08:42] <daubers> Guest40145: That's more to do iwth the dyes and drives than iso images
[08:45] <directhex> -R and +R applies to DVD, not CD
[08:45] <directhex> also -RAM
[08:48] <bigcalm> Good mornings peeps :)
[08:53] <andylockran> morning peeps
[08:53] <andylockran> and peepesss
[08:54] <andylockran> how goes things?
[08:54] <nperry> popey: isitoutyet?
[08:56] <DJones> Grr, stupid Nat West, broken online banking systems isn't a good thing
[08:59] <czajkowski> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035387.html
[09:01] <AlanBell> that doesn't appear to be wildly informative
[09:01] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:06] <BigRedS> what's the this-century version of dpkg --get-selections?
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: that :)
[09:08] <BigRedS> Oh, good :)
[09:28] <popey> bye bye always connected irssi
[09:33] <dwatkins> sadface
[09:33] <bigcalm> What are we to do without a popey in here?
[09:34] <dwatkins> wait until he comes back?
[09:34]  * bigcalm bites his nails
[09:34] <gord> make snide remarks about him behind his back obviously
[09:34] <bigcalm> What if he doesn't come back!?
[09:34] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: we can all 'hangout' on g+
[09:34] <dwatkins> I'll pester him on Google+ until he does?
[09:35] <gord> can we hang out behind the bike sheds on g+? only the cool kids allowed
[09:35] <diplo> :P
[09:35] <bigcalm> Not me then
[09:43] <czajkowski> why no popey :(
[09:43]  * czajkowski peers at gord 
[09:43] <czajkowski> whatcha do
[09:47] <bigcalm> One assumes that he needs to reboot a server
[09:47] <bigcalm> Or he's had enough
[09:48] <nperry> He may have deleted the internet.
[09:48] <bigcalm> We have only moments left
[09:49] <nperry> I'm spending the last minutes of the internet watching leweb :(
[09:50] <gord> we can all stay safe in the knowledge that given that we still exist, we are not all just figments of popeys imagination
[09:50] <bigcalm> Deep
[09:51] <diplo> Too Deep for this early in the morning
[09:51] <bigcalm> Need more coffee
[09:51] <diplo> :)
[09:53]  * dwatkins is trying tea without milk for a change
[09:53] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/ looks like we need a few more chaps to balance things out a bit
[09:53] <dwatkins> I felt like saying to the kettle 'tea, earl grey, hot'
[09:54] <diplo> Where abouts are you Alan ish ?
[09:54] <bigcalm> AlanBell: if I were to come, so would Hayley. We would cancel each other out
[09:55] <bigcalm> There, I'm tentative
[09:55] <BigRedS> AlanBell: could I sleep in your garden again?
[09:55] <AlanBell> yes, no problem
[09:56] <BigRedS> Coool!
[09:56] <BigRedS> ta!
[09:57] <DJones> As if twitter wasn't enough for people to say that they're just getting up, now another copy/clone http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18518162
[09:57] <gord> don't the chickens mind?
[09:58] <nperry> DJones: "only available in the us"
[09:58] <DJones> So far
[09:58] <DJones> I like this comment in the article " "This is an idea that I've had since Christmas. I've been a passionate user of social media since the days of AOL chatrooms, and that was the inspiration really.""
[09:59] <DJones> Inspired by AOL chatrooms :)
[09:59] <nperry> "Discussion on Menshn has initially been restricted to the US election but Ms Mensch says it will expand to reflect users' interests."
[09:59] <nperry> Awesome, a chinnese social network.
[09:59] <gord> new social networks always survive, i'm sure we will be hearing more from this particular one
[09:59] <davmor2> morning all
[09:59] <nperry> I can imagine, "You are not allowed to post about Ubuntu, we want you to talk about apple today"
[10:00] <DJones> Next thing you know, it'll be confirmed it will only work as long as you use Netscape
[10:00] <nperry> Netscape > *
[10:00] <an0key> ie IE6
[10:00] <an0key> *or
[10:01] <AlanBell> wonder if it is based on status.net
[10:01] <diplo> Anyone know what RH/CentOS used for udisks equivalent before implementing in Cent6 ?
[10:03] <DJones> You can register for it if you use megaproxy to get around the Non-US eligibility
[10:03]  * diplo guesses it was HAL
[10:04] <DJones> Maybe not, its disabled by the proxy then
[10:04] <bigcalm> DJones: what if you're in Canada?
[10:04] <AlanBell> http://menshn.com/nopage it is running apache
[10:04] <BigRedS> X-Powered-By: PleskLin
[10:04] <BigRedS> ew
[10:07] <DJones> You can log in with facebook if you so desire
[10:09] <DJones> Give a politicians website access to your facebook account, its one way of getting your personal info for the security services & tracking
[10:09]  * DJones gets out a foil hat
[10:10] <BigRedS> Haha
[10:10] <BigRedS> I love the idea of a politician working that bit out
[10:14] <DJones> Conversation in the office is about parents spying on their kids at school, they can check what they've had for dinner via the schools website, parents have to put credit on an account, the kid has to sign for whatever they'd picked using a fingerprint reader
[10:15] <diplo> Good idea imp
[10:15] <diplo> imo*
[10:16] <diplo> Look forward to it at my kids school
[10:17] <DJones> Seems a bit too much like big brother
[10:18] <DJones> I can understand why they do it though
[10:18] <hamitron> doesn't that add extra expense? surely be money better spent on better food
[10:18] <diplo> Well for me, I used to give my kids money to get lunch
[10:18] <diplo> I found out he was having 3 portions of different chocolate
[10:18] <diplo> No thanks to the school
[10:19] <BigRedS> depends how the parents handle it
[10:19] <diplo> Now he has a fruit starter, some sort of sandwich type main and a fruit/yoghurt for pudding
[10:19] <DJones> I used to go to my Grandad's for my dinner and had things like fried lambs heart, black pudding, liver etc :)
[10:19] <BigRedS> judging by stories I hear of internet barring, frequently badly
[10:20] <bigcalm> AlanBell: what was the PHP profiler you used on vtiger?
[10:20] <hamitron> how much are school meals now?
[10:20] <diplo> I couldn't believe they let them have chocolate for all three courses
[10:20] <diplo> bigcalm: xhprof
[10:20] <diplo> Was looking myself earlier :)
[10:20] <bigcalm> Easy to use?
[10:20] <diplo> Seems so, not used yet but AlanBell put a link up last night of what it generated
[10:21] <diplo> 22:37 < AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/callgraphs/ comedy callgraphs
[10:21] <diplo> Was that it, can't remember now
[10:21] <hamitron> £2 for a school meal? :|
[10:22] <diplo> Yep :)
[10:22] <hamitron> same problem as when I was at school then
[10:22] <diplo> He rarely has one from me, normally packed lunch
[10:22] <diplo> Think his mum does it quite often though
[10:22] <hamitron> cheaper to run out of grounds and go to bakery ;)
[10:22] <diplo> Depends if i was organised or not
[10:23] <diplo> :)
[10:24] <AlanBell> bigcalm: xhprof
[10:24] <bigcalm> Ta :)
[10:24] <bigcalm> AlanBell: easy to use?
[10:24] <AlanBell> non trivial to install
[10:24] <AlanBell> or I am incompetent
[10:24] <bigcalm> Hehe, aww
[10:24] <bigcalm> Oh my, popey came back!
[10:24]  * hamitron steps in line
[10:25] <popey> bigcalm: yup ☺
[10:26] <dogmatic69> anyone seen the Gooseberry (competition for Raspberry Pi)
[10:27] <dogmatic69> Seems like a smartphone without the screen
[10:27] <diplo> dogmatic69: After reading up about it, the guy is selling the board which comes in the cheap tablets
[10:27] <diplo> and is basically selling it with a psu
[10:27] <MartijnVdS> so yes
[10:27] <MartijnVdS> it's a phone without a screen :)
[10:28] <dogmatic69> diplo: ah
[10:28] <diplo> Good on him tbh, I could have done with thinking that up
[10:28] <diplo> :D
[10:28] <bigcalm> My intertubes are so slow recently. What are VM up to?
[10:28] <dogmatic69> the shape of the board is a give-away
[10:29] <dogmatic69> it has all those funny cut outs and one rounded corner
[10:30] <diplo> bigcalm: Why I left a couple of years ago :/
[10:30] <diplo> Along with having a friends and family deal with sky
[10:30] <diplo> :)
[10:31] <bigcalm> diplo: it's ok mostly, just recently a bit iffy
[10:31] <dogmatic69> 6 days till 75mb/s line \o/
[10:31] <bigcalm> Might not be VM
[10:31]  * bigcalm shrugs
[10:31] <gord> is mostly okay really good enough these days?
[10:31] <diplo> My main issue was with downloading anything torrent related
[10:32] <diplo> if i downloaded a torrent I would get good speeds but i couldn't do _anything_ else
[10:32] <bigcalm> Traffic shaping :)
[10:32] <diplo> And afterwards I had to reboot the modem every time
[10:32] <bigcalm> Heh, that sucks
[10:32] <bigcalm> And sounds iffy
[10:32] <diplo> Downside was that it wasn't for pirated material
[10:32] <diplo> :(
[10:32] <bigcalm> You can limit the download speed of torrents
[10:32] <diplo> yeah it was, wasn't speeds... it was just using torrents that caused it
[10:33] <hamitron> does it help tunnelling the torrent traffic?
[10:34] <diplo> never tried, not been with them the last 2 years
[10:34] <diplo> moved to sky, only get 6mb max but it's sooooo much more stable :/
[10:34] <hamitron> tbh, stability I consider a lot more important
[10:35] <hamitron> I was tempted to sign up to bt infinity
[10:35] <hamitron> but read bad things, so stayed on slow dsl
[10:35] <gord> you can get a reseller for infinity that is.. well, not BT
[10:36] <bigcalm> Still waiting for the PECL site to load
[10:36] <hamitron> yeh, but didn't really see anything I liked
[10:36] <hamitron> I refuse to pay more than £30 per month
[10:36] <gord> i'm looking at zen right now, no traffic shaping, just a so many gb limit
[10:37] <hamitron> I just signed a 12 month contract with demon internet, they gave me a nice discount
[10:37] <hamitron> :)
[10:38] <hamitron> then will re-assess after the year
[10:38] <gord> doesn't seem like you can get anything good for less than £30 a month with an infinity reseller. you'll get 20gb limit on zen
[10:38] <hamitron> exactly
[10:38] <hamitron> :(
[10:39] <gord> 100gb for £35 though
[10:39] <hamitron> there are some good packages if you sign a deal for calls on your phone line when I looked
[10:39] <hamitron> but we are still locked into a contract with bt for that
[10:39] <hamitron> so after the year...... ;)
[10:40] <hamitron> I fancy giving plusnet a go
[10:40] <hamitron> unless demon offer bt infinity resale
[10:40] <DJones> If you're with Sky, you can get Sky Fibre Unlimited for £20
[10:41] <hamitron> do they offer a static ip yet?
[10:41] <gord> do they still require a tv contract too?
[10:41] <DJones> gord: Yes
[10:41] <gord> meeeh
[10:41] <DJones> hamitron: Don't know about fibre, normal isn't static
[10:41] <hamitron> atm I got a block of 8 :)
[10:43] <AlanBell> hamitron: plusnet only do static IP on the big package
[10:43] <hamitron> yeh, plusnet do everything I want
[10:43] <bigcalm> There he goes again!
[10:44] <DJones> Somebody get him a new carrier pigeon
[10:44] <hamitron> and Yorkshire broadband is good broadband
[10:44] <hamitron> ;)
[10:45] <hamitron> I'd need a new usb stick to use pigeon :/
[10:45]  * bigcalm gets out the crazy glue
[10:49] <diplo> bigcalm: On virgin here and pecl seems fine here so a regional issue i guess
[10:49] <bigcalm> diplo: aye
[10:49] <diplo> ooh DJones I didn't know that sky were offering that
[10:49]  * diplo wonders whether I try that
[10:50] <bigcalm> diplo: currently trying to load my.virginmedia.com to check their status
[10:50]  * bigcalm twiddles his thumbs
[10:50] <davmor2> bigcalm: you want to glue yourself to crazy??
[10:50] <diplo> lol, well that's not loading very quickly here bigcalm  :D
[10:50] <DJones> diplo: I'm waiting fore fibre to announced in my area
[10:50] <diplo> It has been here \o/
[10:50] <bigcalm> davmor2: I keep losing my crazy, so that might help
[10:50] <diplo> Wonder if sky will make me sign another 12 months though
[10:50] <diplo> ?
[10:51] <DJones> Probably
[10:51] <diplo> I've loaded but i need to login bigcalm and don't know the details sorry
[10:51] <diplo> meh, may cancel total package
[10:51] <diplo> see if that works
[10:51] <bigcalm> https://my.virginmedia.com/faults/service-status
[10:51] <diplo> if i don't have it, i can't watch it
[10:51] <bigcalm> That doesn't need a login
[10:53] <diplo> heh, can't see any details for a VM at this address
[10:53] <davmor2> bigcalm: it only does you know :P
[10:54]  * davmor2 thinks virgin poached bigcalm s crazy
[10:55] <bigcalm> :O
[10:56] <popey> phew!
[10:56] <bigcalm> Is faun the firewall?
[10:57] <popey> guess so
[10:59] <czajkowski> davmor2: Herrrro
[11:00] <Myrtti> hohum
[11:00] <Myrtti> yet another day
[11:01] <davmor2> czajkowski: Prodington Prod morning
[11:03] <bigcalm> Would somebody please stop drinking my tea!
[11:05] <davmor2> bigcalm: I blame virgin they seem to be getting the blame for everything else today ;)
[11:06] <bigcalm> Heh
[11:06] <bigcalm> So it's true that the internet is a series of tubes
[11:08] <davmor2> bigcalm: we just need someone to implement boip now
[11:09] <bigcalm> davmor2: No`
[11:10] <davmor2> bigcalm: why no beer over ip?  how about coip and toip then :D
[11:10] <bigcalm> Daviey: you silly man :P
[11:11] <bigcalm> davmor2: do you not know No`?
[11:12] <davmor2> bigcalm: was the Daviey comment for me
[11:12] <bigcalm> davmor2: yes, but he's a silly man as well ;)
[11:12] <Myrtti> czajkowski: http://twitter.com/myrtti/status/215401537130872833 :-P
[11:13] <czajkowski> Myrtti: oh nice
[11:13] <czajkowski> there does seem to be a lot of interest in that role
[11:13] <czajkowski> Myrtti: harass aquarius
[11:13] <czajkowski> :)
[11:13] <bigcalm> Myrtti: fingers crossed :)
[11:13] <czajkowski> aka bbuy him beer
[11:13] <bigcalm> Heh
[11:13] <bigcalm> Buy him late night pizza
[11:14] <czajkowski> or chargers for travel
[11:14] <bigcalm> A passport locating device
[11:14] <Myrtti> pack of smokes and earplugs for pubnights
[11:14] <bigcalm> :D
[11:14] <Myrtti> so Mr. Brightside doesn't infiltrate his eardrums
[11:15] <czajkowski> ah yes
[11:15]  * gord looks around his office for elves
[11:15] <czajkowski> and also if you could provide a DJ with decent music that may also help
[11:16] <Myrtti> gord: have you noticed your ears and the fancy bow and arrow you have?
[11:16]  * Myrtti cuddles everyone ♥ 
[11:17] <gord> but i don't wanna be an elf :( </seinfeld>
[11:17] <gord> thats a lie, i totally do
[11:18] <davmor2> Myrtti: Yay, good luck!
[11:18] <aquarius> Hmph. I see I am being caricatured again
[11:18] <Myrtti> aquarius: but we love you anyway ♥
[11:18] <bigcalm> aquarius: do you deny any of these traits?
[11:19] <aquarius> the whole is, I sincerely hope, more than the sum of the parts
[11:19] <aquarius> also, I know precisely where my passport is. :)
[11:19]  * DJones is a DJ (maybe the wrong sort) but the music choice would probably be annoying
[11:19] <bigcalm> Slowly everybody in this channel gets swallowed by Canonical
[11:20] <czajkowski> aquarius: see you do now, but I do look froward to the tweet where you go looking for it again when needed
[11:20] <davmor2> bigcalm: you this isn't canonical-uk darn it
[11:20] <aquarius> czajkowski, ah, the passport I'm careful with, since if I lose it getting another one is a nightmare. Adaptors, less so.
[11:20] <aquarius> Myrtti, can you say which role you applied for? By PM is fine if you prefer :)
[11:21] <Myrtti> aquarius: the support one :-)
[11:21] <Myrtti> aquarius: btw did you decide where to spend the windfall?
[11:21] <aquarius> ah, gotcha. The role's not under me, but I know who *is* the hiring manager. :)
[11:22] <aquarius> windfall: no. I need a bunch of new clothes, though, so that might be it. No Boxster for me :(
[11:24] <Myrtti> Did you have a particular one in sight or just a Boxster?
[11:26] <hamitron> doesn't it require a fair amount of buying clothes, to spend the money what a boxster costs?
[11:27] <directhex> how about clothes, plus a new pc for directhex?
[11:27]  * hamitron is not greedy, and would be just as happy with only a new pc
[11:27] <christel> ooh yes! someone should hire Myrtti
[11:31] <bigcalm> I wonder if popey is making up for all the times that he hasn't quit IRC
[11:32] <christel> so it would seem!
[11:32] <Myrtti> /mode +b popey!*@*$##fix_your_connection_or_use_irssi_damnit
[11:33] <popey> shut your noise
[11:33] <Myrtti> ♥
[11:33] <popey> :p
[11:33] <Myrtti> aw. You're ruining my fun. I'm having a good day for a change
[11:34] <popey> can't seem to get xchat to join all the channels I need
[11:35] <bigcalm> Channel connection limit?
[11:35] <davmor2> popey: I can :D
[11:35] <bigcalm> You're connected here, what more do you need?
[11:35] <popey> bah, I'll go elsewhere for help
[11:35] <popey> :(
[11:36] <bigcalm> Though you seem to be missing from a MC channel
[11:36] <bigcalm> Aww
[11:36] <davmor2> popey: I have 36 channels open on 2 networks currently
[11:36] <christel> that's just greedy
[11:37] <czajkowski> 4 networks and 34 channels
[11:37] <davmor2> s/on/over
[11:37] <czajkowski> more than enough
[11:37] <czajkowski> but some do refuse to autojoin which is kinda poo
[11:37] <bigcalm> Maybe they expect you to be registered with nickserv before allowing you to join
[11:37] <popey> davmor2 not helping
[11:37] <popey> it's invite only channels I'm having issues with
[11:38] <popey> but have found /timer so will use that
[11:38] <bigcalm> popey: I was about to suggest a race situation might fix it
[11:38] <czajkowski> popey: ah likewise I have to have identified before I can join so it never autojoins, if and when you figure this bit out let me know
[11:38] <jpds> bigcalm: No, a race situation is the problem.
[11:38] <davmor2> popey: it was more that it can handle that amount of channels so you knew what I had open as an example
[11:38] <jpds> czajkowski: irssi right?
[11:39] <czajkowski> jpds: yarp
[11:39] <jpds> czajkowski: Under chatnets, you need a autosendcmd = "wait 200";
[11:40]  * popey tries again
[11:40] <czajkowski> ahh
[11:40] <jpds> wait 2000 might be better, wait 2 seconds before joining.
[11:40] <czajkowski> nods
[11:41] <czajkowski> it's suually I just need to identify with chanserv
[11:41] <czajkowski> to log into council channels
[11:41] <czajkowski> popey: boo welcome back
[11:41] <popey> found out how to do it, timer not long enough it seems
[11:42] <Myrtti> in theory if you are using SASL to identify, you're identified before you join any channels no matter what connection settings you've got
[11:42] <czajkowski> popey: did you see jpds suggestion of 2000
[11:42] <Myrtti> if I've understood things right
[11:42] <popey> http://forum.xchat.org/viewtopic.php?t=4286
[11:42] <popey> is what i am doing
[11:46] <bigcalm> I do believe that it's lunch time \o/
[11:46] <diplo> Sorry coming late to the convo, I had the same issue popey
[11:46] <diplo> Wasn't authing soon enough, that was the windows version of xchat
[11:47] <AlanBell> popey: any interesting reason for the xchattieness or just wanted a change?
[11:47] <diplo> use irssi now though :/
[11:47] <popey> lunctime!
[11:47] <davmor2> popey: I thought you were a irrssi man why the move to xchat?
[11:48] <AlanBell> lunchtime for me too. Wonder if I can get away early and go bother people in bluefin today
[11:58] <diplo> daubers: Our local B&Q used to
[11:58] <diplo> not got one local ?
[11:58] <daubers> diplo: 3 week lead time
[11:59] <diplo> that sucks
[11:59] <diplo> Don't know anyone with a van, or roof rack
[11:59] <diplo> ?
[11:59] <daubers> annoyingly if you buy paint from the B&Q website you can get it delivered in a few days
[11:59] <daubers> diplo: Know a man with a van... but borrowed it not so long ago for plasterboard...
[12:00] <diplo> Luckily my sister has horses, so my delivery of stuff like that is sorted
[12:00] <diplo> last job i could use a van/lorry when ever i wanted
[12:00] <diplo> So horse box is good fall back
[12:00] <diplo> Tried places like Wickes ?
[12:01] <daubers> £25 if you're within 5 miles of the store (more than the cost of the panel)
[12:02] <diplo> Seems best bet is to buy man with a van some beer and ask nicely again :)
[12:02] <daubers> Yeah... or buy a trailor and do the trailor test
[12:05] <diplo> Buy a cheap roof rack ?
[12:05] <directhex> :D my first ever SSD has shipped :D
[12:06] <Myrtti> daubers: what are you looking for?
[12:08] <dwatkins> directhex: which capacity did you order, I'm curious - I was looking for the sweet-spot in pricing a while ago
[12:08] <directhex> dwatkins, 240G for £132
[12:09] <directhex> so i'll give 60G to ubuntu and 180 to windows, with /home and c:\users on a different drive
[12:09] <dwatkins> I bought a hybrid disk as it was about the same price but 750 GB
[12:09] <daubers> Myrtti: Need to get 2 fence panels, strugglign to find somewhere that will deliver
[12:09] <daubers> (in a reasonable time frame)
[12:10] <davmor2> daubers: wickes
[12:11] <daubers> davmor2: I'm more than 5 miles from the store, so the delivery is extortionate!
[12:11] <daubers> "Delivery Cost - £42.00."
[12:12] <daubers> I could rent a van for less than that!
[12:12] <davmor2> daubers: try garden centers or local builder merchants
[12:13] <Myrtti> :-/ we just get a fencing guy to do it :-/
[12:17] <daubers> Myrtti: I'd rather do it myself..... It's only 2 fence panels
[12:19] <Myrtti> we had the whole wall come down last spring I think, the guy replaced the wooden posts by concrete and leveled the edges a bit as apparently the previous tenants brought in too much soil and our plot is about a halffoot to foot higher than neighbours or surrounding areas
[12:20] <Myrtti> s/the/a/
[12:52] <Twinkletoes> I read somewhere that is was a bad idea to redirect mail for root by changing its alias, and to put a .forward file in root's homedir instead.  I can't remember where I read it, but why is one better than the other?
[12:56] <BigRedS> I can't think why it would be
[12:56] <BigRedS> we use an alias on all our servers
[12:57] <BigRedS> I think ~/.forward fails more gracefully
[12:57] <BigRedS> if something's wrong the email  ends up in a mailbox rather than disappearing into the ether
[13:10] <dwatkins> root might get mails from failed cronjobs
[13:22] <andylockran> dwatkins: what's a hybrid disk?
[13:23] <dwatkins> andylockran: normal hard disk with a caching SSD in front of it - http://www.ebuyer.com/321969-seagate-750gb-momentus-xt-ssd-st750lx003
[13:24] <andylockran> aye, looks cool
[13:24] <dwatkins> yeah, I fitted mine in my Macbook Pro, has worked great.
[13:24] <nperry> dwatkins: Do you not get better performance out of ssd + hdd then a hybrid?
[13:25] <andylockran> nperry: not for the stuff on the hdd
[13:25] <andylockran> I like the idea
[13:25] <andylockran> I went with a 120GB SSD just over a year ago
[13:25] <andylockran> 18 months
[13:25] <andylockran> £1 per GB
[13:26] <dwatkins> nperry: I honestly don't know - I restored my backup onto the disk, so the fact it feels faster could just be due to less fragmentation.
[13:26] <popey> down to 50p/GB now!
[13:26] <popey> fragmentation is only usually an issue with linux filesystems if they're full
[13:26] <popey> or nearly full
[13:26]  * bigcalm waddles back in
[13:27] <gord> if it wern't for ubuntu one, i'd live on just ssd's everywhere + nas
[13:28] <dwatkins> popey: this is HPFS, or whatever my Mac uses for its OS system partition, but may well be the same
[13:29] <nperry> I may get one of the hybrid to put into my laptop, which seems to be failing SMART at the moment..
[13:29] <nperry> However it has been for the last couple of weeks but fsck was able to 'block' the bad sectors.
[13:30] <popey> meh
[13:30] <popey> I'm not going back to spinning rust
[13:30] <popey> SSD all the way
[13:30] <dwatkins> if it's using up spare sectors because there are failing ones, it'll eventually run out
[13:30] <directhex> my ssd should arrive tomorrow :)
[13:30] <dwatkins> I gather SSDs are a lot better nowadays, but presumably they fail over time still
[13:30] <bigcalm> popey: even in the proliant?
[13:30] <popey> yes :p
[13:30] <bigcalm> Ooo, money bags :P
[13:30] <directhex> 180G for windows, 60G for ubuntu, and repurpose current main rust drive for /home and d:\users
[13:30] <nperry> I have never taken a HDD out of a laptop before, as mobos have died before the hdd, how hard is it to do?
[13:31] <dwatkins> depends on the laptop nperry
[13:31] <nperry> I'm assuming it is depandant on the laptop itself and where it is placed.
[13:31] <dwatkins> some are really easy, others are a right pain, there should be tutorials with pictures etc. online if it's a common enough model
[13:31] <directhex> easy on a thinkpad
[13:31] <directhex> one screw, then pull the tab
[13:31] <bigcalm> popey: I bought 3 2.5" to 3.5" drive converters to put some USB disks into the server. They don't work because they centralise the drive rather than putting the connectors into the same location 3.5" drives use
[13:32] <directhex> bigcalm, nice
[13:32] <bigcalm> popey: so let me know how you plan on putting SSDs into the Proliant
[13:32] <nperry> And pretty much any HDD or SSD would fit, as long as its 2.5", which I believe all laptops are now-a-days
[13:32] <mgdm> gaffer tape
[13:32] <bigcalm> Haha
[13:32] <popey> bigcalm, i dont plan to, i already have
[13:32] <directhex> bigcalm, the £130 240G ssd i just bought also comes with a 3.5" converter with appropriate placement, and a usb caddy to use it as an external disk
[13:33] <bigcalm> popey: how?
[13:33] <popey> my hp microserver has ssd for /
[13:33] <popey> in the top bay
[13:33] <bigcalm> Ah, not in the 4 removable bays though
[13:33] <popey> no, i have rust in those
[13:33] <bigcalm> directhex: oh, which one?
[13:33] <popey> i dont care about rust on old slow servers
[13:34] <directhex> bigcalm, kingston hyperx
[13:35] <bigcalm> Gah, going to any site for the 1st time today is taking forever to connect
[13:35] <bigcalm> What do I blame for that?
[13:35] <directhex> DNS caching
[13:36] <bigcalm> If I esc and then f5, things load quickly
[13:37] <gord> switch to google dns?
[13:37] <gord> 8.8.8.8
[13:37] <bigcalm> gord: as far as I am aware, I'm already using google for dns
[13:37] <bigcalm> I should check
[13:37] <bigcalm> directhex: http://www.ebuyer.com/168671-kingston-2-5-to-3-5-hard-drive-bracket-and-screws-sna-br-35 ?
[13:38] <gord> virgin does a bunch of proxying for content right? maybe on their side?
[13:38] <bigcalm> gord: 8 is one, is the other 4?
[13:38] <directhex> bigcalm,  http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-SandForce-Technology-SH100S3B-240G/dp/B005C95NCY
[13:38] <bigcalm> I forget which is the primary and which is the secondary
[13:39] <davmor2> bigcalm: I use 208.67.222.222, 208.67.220.220
[13:39] <gord> i think the secondary is 8.8.4.4
[13:39] <gord> this is off the top of my head though
[13:39]  * diplo agress with gord 
[13:39] <bigcalm> Not 4.4.4.4?
[13:39] <gord> no
[13:39] <bigcalm> Ok
[13:39] <diplo> 8.8.4.4
[13:40] <bigcalm> Changed in my router, hopefully will see a change now
[13:40] <bigcalm> directhex: I see.
[13:56] <dogmatic69> I an doing 'for file in `ls /some/path`' command in terminal. how can I do echo "Some$varThing" that is like "Some<var>Thing"
[13:57] <dogmatic69> actual command: for plugin in `ls Core`; do cake test $plugin "All$pluginTests"; done
[13:57] <dogmatic69> so it should run cake test $plugin "All<plugin>Tests"
[14:00] <andylockran> dogmatic69:
[14:01] <dogmatic69> :/
[14:01] <andylockran> TEST='andy'; echo 'test' $TEST ' test'
[14:01] <dogmatic69> ah
[14:02] <dogmatic69> cool, thanks
[14:04] <jacobw> meowth
[14:07] <gord> jacobw is a pokeman now?
[14:12] <diplo> Rather quiet this afternoon, everyone taking a siesta?
[14:12] <diplo> Beautiful outside, went out to read at lunchtime, very nearly didn't come back in
[14:12] <diplo> Dropped off twice :)
[14:15] <jacobw> gord: that's right
[14:16]  * jacobw is watching 'castle' right now
[14:20] <diplo>  I love the show jacobw :)
[14:21] <diplo> What series ?
[14:27] <kvarley> What does "depmod -a" do?
[14:29] <diplo> From what I've just read up it compiles a list of dependancies from /etc/modules.conf
[14:29] <kvarley> diplo: Ok ty
[14:29] <diplo> which modprobe uses to load modules
[14:30] <kvarley> diplo: Ah that'll be it. I'm looking to enable my wifi and its on a guide I'm reading
[14:31] <diplo> :)
[14:32] <diplo> Never had to use it, but seen it mentioned here a few times before
[14:33] <kvarley> diplo: :) me neither. This is for my MK802, weirdly it can see wifi networks but it won't let me connect
[14:33] <diplo> Probably like an issue i used to have on older laptops having issues with wpa/wpa2
[14:33] <diplo> unless i updated them
[15:21] <directhex> i have paid out for a crashplan subscription.
[15:21] <directhex> ALL MY MONEY :O
[15:23] <gord> crashplan?
[15:23] <diplo> I just don't think im important enough for that :)
[15:25] <directhex> gord, cloud storage thingy
[15:27] <gord> aha
[15:34] <bigcalm> Having one of those days
[15:34] <bigcalm> Wifi router stopped supporting wifi traffic
[15:34] <bigcalm> After a reboot, it stopped supporting cabled traffic as well
[15:34]  * bigcalm shakes fist at Linksys
[15:35] <diplo> :P
[15:35] <bigcalm> (Says cisco, but it's linksys)
[15:35] <bigcalm> Now back to using the VM superhub as a router again
[15:36] <davmor2> bigcalm: I now feel your pain
[15:36] <bigcalm> :)
[15:37] <bigcalm> Oh look, the superhub is in no rush to support wifi traffic either now
[15:37] <davmor2> bigcalm: apparently on 20meg they used a different network stack to the 30+ so now I have a super hub I've been switched over for my 60meg and it's pig slow and completely unreliable
[15:37]  * bigcalm wonders if an EMP was allowed into the house
[15:37] <bigcalm> davmor2: I thought you said it had improved since you got 60mb?
[15:38] <davmor2> bigcalm: no it improved on the 20meg
[15:38] <davmor2> bigcalm: this is the first day of using the 60meg
[15:38] <bigcalm> Ah
[15:38] <davmor2> bigcalm: after 5 calls to them they now realise that there is a fault
[15:39] <bigcalm> \o/
[15:39] <davmor2> bigcalm: I got a notice call off them saying it was fixed I had 60meg for 2 seconds at least and then back on the phone to them :D
[15:58] <andylockran> ouch
[16:04] <davmor2> andylockran: why the ouch?
[16:29] <dogmatic69> found out how to stop recruiters sending spam
[16:29] <dogmatic69> */1 * * * * /var/www/frameworks/cakephp2/app/Console/cake -app /var/www/sites/aqua.dev/public_html email
[16:30] <bigcalm> How does that stop spam?
[16:30] <dogmatic69> wrote a little cake script to send out some mails. after 15 minutes I got a reply saying 'I can remove you if you wish', after 35 minutes I got one saying 'I have removed you from our list'
[16:31] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: the script sends out a mail
[16:31] <dogmatic69> back to the offender
[16:32] <bigcalm> How sweet
[16:33] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/389329614
[16:34] <ali1234> damn, why does it always fall to me to actually go and do the research before spreading loads of FUD?
[16:35] <bigcalm> Because you care?
[16:36] <andylockran> davmor2: re: you having to spend more time on the phone to VM
[16:38] <davmor2> andylockran: ah right yeap when it works it is fantastic
[16:39] <andylockran> ta ra all
[16:40] <andylockran> catch you tomorrow!
[16:40] <andylockran> :D
[16:46] <AlanBell> anyone got multitouch gestures like pinch working on a laptop touchpad?
[16:46] <AlanBell> would it be good if that worked and was plumbed in to compiz enhanced zoom?
[16:48] <nperry> AlanBell, I have got twofinger scroll working..
[16:52] <AlanBell> yeah, that works fine
[16:53] <gord> AlanBell, iirc you need a properly utouch supported multitouch laptop. which i think is maybe just apple ones and a few select others
[16:53] <AlanBell> mine did at one point do three finger window dragging
[16:53] <AlanBell> and I know the hardware supports more stuff
[16:53] <popey> asus ultrabook does it
[16:53] <popey> and the magic trackpad
[16:53] <gord> might be able to get that working then
[16:54] <AlanBell> it occured to me that if super+mousewheel for zoom isn't allowed then pinch might be sufficiently intuitive that it would get in
[16:56] <popey> its not that it isnt allowed
[16:56] <popey> it's just been disabled to prevent accidentally getting stuck in it.
[16:57] <AlanBell> yeah, poor phrasing
[16:57] <gord> i think utouch enabled applications would want pinch all to themselves
[16:57] <popey> could it not be enabled in the same screen as speech etc?
[17:01] <issyl0> Hrm.
[17:01] <issyl0> grub error on 12.04 (a clean install): hd0 out of disk.
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> "out of disk"?
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> nothing elsed?
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> -d
[17:02] <issyl0> No.
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> Stränge
[17:02] <issyl0> :-)
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> what kind of hw is this?
[17:02] <issyl0> Laptop, about three years old...
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> nothing else on it?
[17:03] <issyl0> Nope.
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> hmmm
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> hmmmmmmm
[17:03] <popey> google says you're not alone
[17:03] <issyl0> No.  :-(
[17:04] <nperry> issyl0, have you chrooted in and re-ran grub-install?
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> popey: do the googles have a workaround?
[17:04] <issyl0> nperry: No?
[17:04] <issyl0> nperry: What does chroot mean?
[17:04]  * issyl0 ignorant.
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: it changes the root fs :)
[17:04] <issyl0> Ah.
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: only for the process you're starting and its children, of course
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> so you could do:
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> chroot /target
[17:05] <matti> Hi MartijnVdS
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> (it starts a shell by default)
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> matti: hi
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: everything that's "/" in that shell is actually /target
[17:05]  * issyl0 confused.
[17:05] <matti> Hi issyl0
[17:06]  * issyl0 might reinstall and see if that fixes it.
[17:06] <matti> issyl0: grub confuses everybody
[17:06] <issyl0> (It has booted twice before with this install!)
[17:06] <issyl0> At least twice...
[17:06] <MartijnVdS> matti: except maybe mjg59
[17:06] <issyl0> matti: Hehe.  How are you?
[17:06] <matti> MartijnVdS: No, he just pretends.
[17:06] <matti> issyl0: Good, you? :)
[17:07] <issyl0> matti: Stressed.
[17:07] <matti> issyl0: Oh, dear. Why?
[17:08] <issyl0> matti: Life.
[17:08] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: all the diodes down your left side?

[17:08] <issyl0> MartijnVdS: Hmmmm?
[17:08] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: Marvin (the paranoid android) said that :)
[17:08] <issyl0> I have no idea... :-)
[17:08] <matti> issyl0: :/
[17:09] <bigcalm> issyl0: a Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy reference. Good book :)
[17:09]  * christel tickles issyl0 
[17:09] <issyl0> bigcalm: Ah.  I've never watched it or seen the book.
[17:09]  * issyl0 decides to reinstall.  :-)
[17:09] <issyl0> christel: Hello.  :-)
[17:09] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: http://open.spotify.com/user/martijnvds/playlist/2UHNlhHRMcziirEn188343
[17:09] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: background music
[17:09] <christel> hai hai :)
[17:10] <bigcalm> issyl0: originally a bbc radio 4 play. Then a series of 5 books. Then a TV series. Then a film
[17:10] <issyl0> Ahh.
[17:10] <issyl0> A bit like War of the Worlds then.
[17:10] <bigcalm> issyl0: hopefully you'll bump into it in some form or another one day :)
[17:10] <bigcalm> Time for me to play mr taxi driver
[17:10] <bigcalm> Toodles :)
[17:10] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: except it's a complete spoof of all SF that ever was :)
[17:10] <issyl0> OK.
[17:11] <MartijnVdS> so it's meant to be funny, not scary (like WotW)
[17:11] <MartijnVdS> at least, I hope it was.. or I might have read it all wrong.
[17:27] <BigRedS> Is there a page I can go to to see what the latest version of Wordpress I can run on a given version of PHP is?
[17:28] <BigRedS> Ah, never mind, I can go as far as 3.1 apparently
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> heh http://fakescience.tumblr.com/post/25506679258
[18:51] <bigcalm_xoom> Hey peeps :)
[18:51] <MartijnVdS> \o
[18:54] <bigcalm_XOOM> Right, should be all registered to use this nick now
[18:55]  * bigcalm_XOOM tickles pope
[18:56] <bigcalm_XOOM> davmor2: connection any better yet?
[18:57] <davmor2> bigcalm_XOOM: Nope just disconnected me it's going so slow
[18:58] <DJones> bigcalm_XOOM: Have you registered bigcalm_ipad or bigcalm_kogan ?
[18:59] <bigcalm_XOOM> Im spending the evening in the car park of the Queen Elizabeth hospital in Birmingham
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_XOOM: hmm.. in the car park?
[18:59] <bigcalm_XOOM> Thankfully have a really good H signal here
[18:59] <DJones> Everything ok?
[18:59] <davmor2> bigcalm_XOOM: erm that's not good
[19:00] <bigcalm_XOOM> Hayley is visiting a friend. I am playing taxi man for the evening :)
[19:00] <DJones> ah
[19:00] <bigcalm_XOOM> The building is _huge_
[19:01] <bigcalm_XOOM> DJones: not registered. Not much point until I put irc on them. And I've given the kogan to my mum :)
[19:08] <bigcalm_xoom> Silly T-Mobile
[19:09] <mcphail> bigcalm_xoom: bet I'm getting more lag on O2 than you are
[19:10] <bigcalm_xoom> Our thrones of diamonds are too pointy ;)
[19:25] <ali1234> hmmmmmmmmmmm uefi
[19:25] <andatche> anyone any idea what EC2 metadata I need to prevent cloudinit growing the root partition/filesystem on first boot?
[19:25] <andatche> the documentation is woeful
[19:31] <ali1234> does anyone want to help me puzzle through setting up UEFI/OVMF in KVM and then actually try signing a bootloader with multiple certificates and booting it on two systems with different platform keys?
[19:32] <ali1234> see http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/tianocore/index.php?title=OVMF and http://sourceforge.net/projects/edk2/files/General%20Documentation/SigningUefiImages%20-v1dot0.pdf/download
[19:34] <AlanBell> go ali1234 \o/
[19:34] <ali1234> i said help not encourage :/
[19:34] <ali1234> i have no idea what i'm doing
[19:35] <AlanBell> I just want to be a cheerleader
[19:35] <AlanBell> with pompoms
[19:35] <ali1234> *\o/*
[19:36] <AlanBell> I am led to believe that Daviey knows a thing or two about UEFI/OVMF
[19:37] <AlanBell> and mhall119 seems keen to poke about in this area
[19:37] <ali1234> if you look at that second link it gives actual screenshots of how to enroll keys and stuff. it's a good indication of how these bioses will probably work
[19:38] <ali1234> of particular interest is that it's more tha "yes or no" when running a particular piece of code
[19:38] <ali1234> it can also be cnfigured to ask the user if the code isn't signed
[19:38] <ali1234> which is nice
[19:39] <ali1234> basically the point where we're at is that the spec should in theory allow this, but the implementation doesn't
[19:41] <ali1234> now i'm not entirely convinced that the implementation doesn't allow it, mainly because two hours ago we all thought the spec didn't allow it either
[19:41] <ali1234> and also because without multiple chains/roots the whole thing seems unworkable and pointless
[19:42] <ali1234> but if i'm honest, two hours ago i didn't know anything about it at all
[19:43] <AlanBell> yeah, I was *very* surprised to see Matthew Garrett not knowing that bit of the spec backwards
[19:43] <AlanBell> and you would think that if the spec did it but the implementation didn't then they would file a bug against the implementation
[19:43] <ali1234> yeah
[19:44] <ali1234> and first step to filing a bug is... steps to reproduce!
[19:45] <ali1234> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=BF2CCE9263284D428840004653A28B6E6E90DC%40SHSMSX102.ccr.corp.intel.com&forum_name=edk2-devel
[19:45] <AlanBell> yup
[19:45] <ali1234> possibly related? ^
[19:45] <mhall119> AlanBell: pong
[19:45] <AlanBell> hi mhall119
[19:46] <mhall119> hiya
[19:46] <AlanBell> meet ali1234 (you already met on G+)
[19:46] <AlanBell> we are talking UEFI
[19:46] <ali1234> i think we already "met" on OMG ubuntu... probably got off to a bad start :)
[19:47] <mgdm> I hate that site soley based on its name
[19:47] <mhall119> hi ali1234
[19:48] <ali1234> hello. :)
[19:48] <mhall119> Alistair Buxton I presume?
[19:48] <ali1234> yes
[19:48]  * mhall119 says with his best fake British accent
[19:49] <mhall119> which has improved significantly thanks to a season of Dr. Who on Netflix :)
[19:49] <ali1234> so, i was reading about OVMF, which is a UEFI implementation you can run in KVM, based on tiano
[19:49] <ali1234> or tianocore... not sure how they are related
[19:49] <mhall119> ok
[19:49] <ali1234> anyway it supports secure boot with enrollment UI and everything
[19:49] <andatche> the documentation for cloud init really is terrible :(
[19:49] <andatche> worse than upstart
[19:50] <ali1234> http://sourceforge.net/projects/edk2/files/General%20Documentation/SigningUefiImages%20-v1dot0.pdf/download for an overview
[19:50] <mgdm> secure boot... of a VM?
[19:50] <ali1234> mgdm: yes, it's for testing of course
[19:50] <ali1234> so i'm inerested in actually trying to test out the concepts of multiple platform keys and trust chains in a single executable, but basically i have no idea what i'm doing
[19:50] <mhall119> btw, is there a Tony Whitmore in here?
[19:51] <mgdm> mhall119: occasionally
[19:51] <mhall119> ali1234: that's cool, I have slightly less idea of what you're going :)
[19:51] <AlanBell> Tonytiger when he is
[19:51] <mgdm> mhall119: 'tonytiger'
[19:51] <mhall119> cool, thanks
[19:51] <ali1234> ah i think last time i saw him he was saying "i don't like IRC, i prefer the ML"
[19:51] <AlanBell> he is totally online right now :)
[19:51] <mhall119> ali1234: basically everything I know about SecureBoot I learned from reading the various specs and coverage in the past few days
[19:51] <ali1234> mhall119: yes, me too
[19:52] <AlanBell> mhall119: that doesn't put you as far behind the red hat gurus as one might hope
[19:52] <mhall119> in my younger days, that would have been enough to convince me that I understood something
[19:53] <ali1234> i know if i bash my head against this for long enough then eventually i will get a result, but there's a lot of peripheral stuff... for example, i've never used KVM before, nor PKCS in general
[19:54] <mhall119> I've done PKCS stuff before, with openssl, but not enough to really understand it
[19:56] <ali1234> i once set up a CA for self signing some certificates to use in openvpn, but i used the easy_ca script and followed a guide and didn't know what i was doing
[19:57] <ali1234> so yeah
[19:57] <mhall119> there's an easy_ca script?
[19:57] <mhall119> I spent weeks learning openssl's command line
[19:58] <ali1234> http://www.openssl.org/docs/apps/CA.pl.html
[19:58] <ali1234> actually that's not even it
[19:58] <ali1234> easyCA is part of penvpn and is even easier than that
[20:02] <ali1234> anyway before even worrying about that, first step is to get OVMF running
[20:07] <bigcalm_x00m> I think I've fallen asleep twice so far
[20:09] <bigcalm_x00m> Should have brought my laptop, not just a tablet
[20:10] <AlanBell> virtualbox has an EFI tickbox
[20:10] <bigcalm_x00m> Ooo, time to go :)
[20:11] <ali1234> AlanBell: yeah but i don't think it's "comlete"
[20:11] <ali1234> +p
[20:11] <AlanBell> I have a VM with an efi shell running
[20:11] <ali1234> does it look like the one in OVMF pdf?
[20:11] <ali1234> virtualbox would probably be easier, what with it's simple USB support
[20:12] <AlanBell> it looks a *lot* like the one in the pdf
[20:13] <ali1234> ok, got it too
[20:14] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S05E09  The Hitch Hikers - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/06/20/s05e09-the-hitch-hikers/
[20:14] <ali1234> whenever i google for secure boot stuff all i get is people arguing about whether it will or won't break linux, and no actual hard facts :(
[20:15] <ali1234> maybe i should use bing instead
[20:17] <tonytiger> Hello?
[20:19] <ali1234> i don't see any commands in this to enroll keys or set anything involving security, so i don't think this supports secure boot emulation
[20:19] <ali1234> otoh: http://www.virtualbox.org/svn/vbox/trunk/src/VBox/Devices/EFI/Firmware2/VBoxPkg/VBoxPkg.fdf
[20:26] <AlanBell> o/ tonytiger
[20:26] <AlanBell> mhall119: meet tonytiger :)
[20:28] <mhall119> o/
[20:40] <czajkowski> mhall119: see pm
[20:41] <directhex> backin' up for ssditude tomorrow :)
[20:41] <AlanBell> "Secure Boot is configured from setup by selecting Device Manager and then Secure Boot Configuration from the Devices List."
[20:42] <AlanBell> any idea what that means ali1234
[20:42] <ali1234> context?
[20:42] <ali1234> Device Manager as in Windows Device manager?
[20:42] <AlanBell> I want to get from the shell with the yellow shell> prompt to the ncurses style blue screens for configuring secure boot stuff
[20:42] <ali1234> well
[20:42] <AlanBell> page 24 of the PDF
[20:43] <ali1234> i'm just setting up qemu... then i'll see what happens
[20:43] <directhex> but what key is the emulated firmware of the emulated pci devices signed with?
[20:43] <ali1234> whut
[20:43] <ali1234> the efi firmware isn't signed
[20:43] <AlanBell> directhex: you mean the emulated graphics device?
[20:44] <directhex> AlanBell: and networking, but yes
[20:44] <ali1234> hmmmm
[20:44] <AlanBell> how much of a driver does text mode boot require?
[20:44] <ali1234> virtually none
[20:45] <ali1234> pretty much you write characters into a standard address (same as serial)
[20:52] <ali1234> ok, got this working in qemu
[20:55] <AlanBell> nice
[20:55] <ali1234> it just dumps you at the same shell as virtualbox
[20:55] <AlanBell> did you do build –D SECURE_BOOT_ENABLE
[20:55] <ali1234> no?
[20:56] <ali1234> i used the binary release
[20:57] <AlanBell> ah, exit from the shell
[20:58] <AlanBell> then you get to the menu system
[20:58] <ali1234> ah!
[20:58] <ali1234> nice one
[20:58] <ali1234> are you still using virtualbox?
[20:59] <ali1234> so... my "devices list" is empty. i guess i need to recompile
[20:59] <AlanBell> mine too
[21:00] <ali1234> also i had to -no-kvm to make this work... so it's incredibly slow
[21:01]  * andatche sigh
[21:01] <andatche> damn cloud-init
[21:03] <Azelphur> lol, Linux torvalds comments on nvidia now in gif form \o/ http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/files/2012/06/v40g6.gif
[21:03] <zleap> you mean Linus
[21:04] <Azelphur> oops, yup
[21:06] <ali1234> lol he looks really mad
[21:09] <ali1234> edk2 is huge
[21:09] <dwatkins> Azelphur: I do that every time I go to type his name...
[21:09] <dwatkins> in other news, Edinburgh now has tiny police cars: http://i.imgur.com/YjMTh.jpg
[21:09] <Azelphur> dwatkins: haha
[21:26] <ali1234> edk2 building.....
[21:26] <ali1234> i get the feeling this will take a while
[21:28] <ali1234> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UEFI-howto hmm
[21:29] <ali1234> that pretty much has everything i've read so far in one handy place
[21:29] <ali1234> the only thing missing from that is the extra build command to get secure boot support
[21:30] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UEFI-howto?action=info so who is manjo I wonder
[21:30] <AlanBell> currently in #ubuntu-server and #ubuntu-devel
[21:43] <ali1234> anyone know how i get bold on ubuntu wiki?
[21:43] <bigcalm> Ahoy! I have returned
[21:43] <bigcalm> ali1234: do something daring?
[21:44] <ali1234> well i think this whole project is pretty daring given my (lack of) experience on the subject
[21:46] <BigRedS> ali1234: if it's mediawiki then with 's
[21:47] <BigRedS> ''emboldened text''
[21:47] <ali1234> '' is italic, ''' is bold
[21:47] <BigRedS> Oh yeah
[21:47] <BigRedS> Gah
[21:47] <ali1234> cheers anyway
[21:48] <BigRedS> Mediaiwki syntax is rapidly getting to the same state as bash syntax in my mind
[21:48] <BigRedS> where I just keep trying likely arrangements of characters until something sticks
[21:49] <ali1234> damn it says right under the edit window how to do it as well :)
[21:50] <AlanBell> BigRedS: it is moinmoin
[21:54] <ali1234> um, ok, that doesn't work :(
[21:54] <ali1234> File/directory not found in workspace
[21:54] <ali1234> 	/home/al/uefi/build/edk2/CryptoPkg/Library/OpensslLib/openssl-0.9.8w/e_os.h
[21:55] <ali1234> oh ok, you need to manually put openssl in there
[22:03] <ali1234> seems to be working now
[22:10] <ali1234> well that's interesting
[22:10] <ali1234> the required fv image size 0x524828 exceeds the set fv image size 0x500000
[22:11] <ali1234> it builds correctly without secure boot :(
[22:12] <ali1234> http://feishare.com/efimail/messages/20110324-1024-Re__edk2__Error_about_building_OVMF_on_Fedora_8-Bei_Guan.html
[22:32] <ali1234> ok it built!
[22:40] <ali1234> yay i have Secure Boot Configuration
[22:43] <AlanBell> \o/
[22:43] <AlanBell> screenshots or it didn't happen of course :)
[22:44] <mgdm> ali1234: in the time between you saying you wanted to do something I was certain nobody could be bothered with, and actually doing it, I have been in the pub
[22:45] <mgdm> ali1234: I'm impressed that you got it :)
[22:46] <ali1234> i'm not anywhere near done yet
[22:46] <ali1234> i still have to figure out how to make two platform keys, enroll them in two virtual machines, and then somehow sign an executable with both of them
[22:46] <ali1234> but this is a start anyway
[22:51] <ali1234> ok so the wiki now has everything you need to reproduce everything i've done so far
[22:55] <ali1234> "UEFI Secure Boot must be configured for each invocation of OVMF since variables are not currently persistent across OVMF invocations."
[22:55] <ali1234> argh