[01:44] Unit193: i'm afraid i have to disappoint you [01:44] No blackbird. :/ [01:45] Unit193: no, not that :) [01:45] i mean: the categories you put down in the settings-manager UI are fine and dandy, but you can't create new categories on-the-fly it seems [01:45] so we'll have to live with what we got [01:46] everything isn't part of the defined standard categories goes into "other" automatically [01:47] ergo the current list will have to be re-adjusted to fit the existing categories in the 4.10 settings-manager [01:47] Alright, that works. [01:47] Once I know the list. [01:48] personal, hardware, system, other [01:49] that's it, no more, no less [01:49] Welp, not my fault. [01:50] i guess the .menu file of the settings-manager could be patched to allow more categories [01:50] but personally i'd prefer and keep it simple [01:50] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008260.html Indicates a meeting tomorrow, but not on the calendar, unless I'm blind. pleia2 <<< [01:50] so maybe trying to stick to these makes sense [01:50] yeah, there is a meeting tomorrow afaik [01:50] Yes, just was trying to conform to what you requested. [01:50] i'm supposed to chair it, but i'm not sure i can make it [01:50] Not it. [01:52] anyway, g2g to bed no [01:52] w [01:52] if you have time it'd be great if you could apply the new categories :) [01:53] ttyl, night Unit193 [01:53] Good night, ochosi. [01:58] knome: Take a look over those please? I'm just randomly making something up, and would adding Passwords and Keys be good? [02:33] Next Xubuntu community meeting at 21st of June, at 15UTC (knome, 15:55:04) [02:34] but that's thursday [02:34] (last one was on wednesday) [02:37] If you wouldn't mind putting it on the GCal? [02:37] for wednesday or thursday? [02:38] Yes. [02:38] :P [02:39] meetings every day! [02:39] Heh, whenever the meeting is. :P [02:39] our last one was wednesday, in his email knome said "tomorrow" but in the meeting minutes for last time he said thursday [02:39] so I'm thinking tomorrow/wednesday [02:39] not the 21st [02:40] ok, added it for tomorrow [02:44] Danke. [06:04] We could try a rolling meeting procedure. Analogous to gentoo's rolling releases. [06:09] * micahg will probably miss this one too as it's looking to be a late night [06:19] micahg: Don't worry about the meeting, but if you have any pointers regarding the milestone next week, please do share. Otherwise, take care and don't burn out. :) [06:24] astraljava: just that we need testers and to let mr_pouit or I know if something is broke [06:24] micahg: Sure thing. Thanks! [06:25] I'm going through the results on the tracker before today's meetings, I'll pick up the bugs mentioned there. [06:25] although, my time is very limited until the weekend [06:27] No worries, I'll mention them, but I won't expect you to stand on guard ready to act immediately. I'll see if I can do something myself, too. It's high time for me to get into bug fixing for Xfce. :) [06:34] astraljava: one of the ones I reported is fix committed for precise - not sure it's been reported against quantal though [06:36] hobgoblin: Ok. Do you have the bug # handy? [06:36] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/870297 [06:36] Launchpad bug 870297 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Lightdm logins not being logged in wtmp" [High,Triaged] [06:37] I can do the bug if necessary [06:49] Ok, so it should be hitting quantal when the fixed version gets released. [06:52] k - no need for extra work then - sounds good to me [07:39] pleia2, yeah, it's always wednesday [07:50] http://www.marriedtothesea.com/092607/ [07:51] knome: Had to re-categorize the programs, as you can't have custom ones. [07:54] Unit193, i noticed, still looks good [07:55] astraljava, erh, ok. :) [07:55] astraljava, i don't quite "get" that comic, but ok [07:55] astraljava, i mean, mtts generally [07:57] Feel free to change around, I was guessing at best. :P [07:57] They're really weird. Just thought it was fitting for the day. [07:57] heh, i suppose. [07:57] as if i didn't like weird stuff. [07:58] should make some phonecalls === yofel_ is now known as yofel [10:31] hi everyone [10:32] morning ochosi [10:32] actually it's high noon here :) [10:32] but morning hobgoblin [10:32] :) [10:33] another 30 minutes and it'll be afternoon here too [10:52] :) [10:53] astraljava: just to be sure, do you need anything else from me for the display-dialog or can you pursue this by yourself on the weekend? [10:53] madnick: ping [11:46] ochosi: pong [11:46] hey, i just wanted to quickly follow up on yesterday [11:46] which part? [11:46] :) [11:46] the xubuntu-greeter part [11:47] ah, yeah, I need to generate a new key [11:47] ok [11:47] just wanted to ask because there was no initial push yet [11:47] i just need to figure out how i can keep it his time [11:47] ochosi: yeah you need the key for bzr [11:47] don't leave it in the VM? ;) [11:47] hehe [11:48] I need the VM for the dev environment :-< [11:48] I suppose I could manually copy it [11:48] sure, but you can copy it to a safe location [11:48] (some call that "backups") [11:48] I heard of those mythical things [11:49] okie :) [11:50] ok, in that case i guess we have to wait until you have a key again [11:50] s/we/i/ :) [11:51] i think we need to create a todo-list of the changes though [11:51] Yeah, I'll try to get to it asap, poke me with a stick if its not done tomorrow before 09:00 [11:51] ochosi: yes [11:51] one simple thing i'd love is for the login-box to be centered [11:52] and we need to replace gnome-settings-daemon with xfsettingsd [11:52] and ideally manage multi-monitor-support [11:52] if that's not baked into unity-greeter already [11:52] that's already it [11:52] i think it it draws the bg [11:52] for each screen [11:52] yeah, but does it also only display _one_ login box? [11:52] yes [11:52] my experience was that it mirrors [11:52] ok [11:53] then that's fine [11:53] Hm, you made me unsure now [11:53] but it'd be nice if the behaviour of primary-monitor would match the behaviour of the xubuntu-session [11:53] Because in 12.04 I can only get mirrored anyway, thats why I still run 11.04 on this machine [11:53] a-ha [11:53] ok, so: mandatory is to drop g-s-d [11:54] optional is: small design tweaks (e.g. login-box alignment) [11:54] mandatory: change add an "x" to "ubuntu" [11:54] wishful-thinking is: multi-monitor-support as drafted in the spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/MultipleMonitors [11:55] the settings-gui is also optional imo [11:55] better get a working greeter first [11:56] madnick: i'm off for lunch now, would you mind compiling that into a list and throwing it on the whiteboard? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-new-lightdm [11:56] sure [11:57] ok, thanks [11:57] ttyl! [11:59] ochosi, astraljava, pleia2: just reminding: i'm not able to make the meeting today. [12:00] ochosi, astraljava, pleia2: somebody of you should chair [12:00] err, english fail, but anyway [12:01] I did not change the work items in the blueprint, since they are general (like an apple patent), but I added the stuff to the whiteboard :) [12:05] i'd maybe add a work item for "Replace gnome-settings-daemon with xfsettingsd" [12:08] knome: True [12:08] that's kind of separate, the rest belong with the general item [12:49] they should add this metaphor to dictionary : like an apple patent. ha ha ha [12:50] simile , my bad [13:27] knome: are you still there? [13:27] ochosi, for a few mins [13:28] knome: ok, i just wanted to say that i can chair the meeting [13:28] ok, good [13:28] also: what's the plan for the action-item "en/disable compositor"? [13:28] in the "open action items" -item, just go through things from the last meetings that ain't done yet [13:29] discussion, but i think we need to postpone that [13:29] ok, i'll just work with last meeting's summary [13:29] maybe some of the others will be there as well and help me out :) [13:29] well, there is the quicklist for actions [13:30] a-ha? [13:30] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [13:30] see "Action items, by person" [13:30] other than those, there is really nothing [13:30] oh right [13:30] yeah, that's useful [13:30] well, on the announcements, just point to the ML link [13:30] and say feedback is welcome [13:30] btw, have you talked to gridcube yet about the music-player thingy? [13:30] i think janne might want to go through some testing stuff [13:31] no, not yet [13:31] ok [13:31] how much time do you have now? [13:31] we could quickly drop a few music-players [13:31] :} [13:31] i don't know, but 0-5mins [13:31] that should work ;) [13:31] i got to go when i get a call [13:31] ok [13:32] let's drop: moc, nightingale, clementine for sure [13:32] drop: anything with Qt, anything CLI, nighthingale [13:32] lol [13:32] exactly [13:33] many of the others need investigation [13:33] and i think we have to add a few and remove others [13:33] done. [13:33] but first off, we should decide whether the list of "desired features" is ok [13:33] ok [13:33] i need to go now [13:33] see you later [13:33] alrighty [13:33] seeya [13:34] I can give you some input on that if you want it ochosi [13:34] sure [13:35] all of those desired features are important to me :) [13:36] the first 3 are important imo [13:37] saving playlists is too - searching and podcasts less so [13:39] as far as the list goes - exaile will save playlists - it just calls it export [13:40] I've never been able to tell the difference between gmusicbroswer and quodlibet [13:40] of the 'simple' ones listen is the best I think [13:40] actually there are a few other criteria that are important for an app, apart from features [13:40] e.g. how well is it maintained [13:41] of course there are - I'm looking at it from a user pov :) [13:41] is there a roadmap that implies that stuff we want will be implemented in the (near?) future [13:41] stuff like that :) [13:41] yeah, just sayin that this has to be taken into account# [13:41] not that I know of - but I've only really been involved for a short while :) [13:42] I said I'd give gridcube a hand with this - but I've not seen him much to speak too [14:03] i added a few inline comments to gridcube's user-experience section [14:03] if you see him feel free to let him know [14:03] also: feel free to read through them yourself, i'm always open for discussions [14:09] I think he said he should be available today, flag day or something. [14:12] hobgoblin: I'm still only half-way through getting the test results. Are you available for the meeting in less than an hour? I wanna talk about Alpha-2, and you have been testing it the most. Your input would be very valuable. [14:13] I'll be about - ping me :) [14:29] Thanks, will do, when the time comes. But it'll be obvious if you follow the meeting anyway. :) [14:31] I'm right in the middle of trying to find out how my isp e-mail account has been compromised :( [14:31] so I might not be following ... [14:39] ouch [14:40] Reminder/Disclaimer: -- Xubuntu Community meeting in 20min here. -- [14:44] sigh [14:51] ouch indeed [14:56] k - all ears now [14:56] Three minutes still. MAKE SOME NOISE!! *ahem* [14:58] :) [14:58] morning [14:59] stop smoking plz [14:59] morning pleia2 [15:00] astraljava, pleia2: do any of you two feel like chairing? ^^ [15:01] I thought you meant to? :) [15:01] not really, just woke up, still pre-coffee :) [15:01] astraljava: well i can :) but i don't mind if any of you want to [15:02] * ochosi is so extremely humble, it's hard to take [15:02] Go ahead, be strong! You can do it. :) I'll cover the next one, then. [15:02] pleia2: ok, i guess that speaks for itself :) [15:02] astraljava: hehe, ok ;) [15:02] meetingology: ready? [15:02] ochosi: Error: "ready?" is not a valid command. [15:02] i take that as a "yes" [15:03] #startmeeting [15:03] Meeting started Wed Jun 20 15:03:01 2012 UTC. The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [15:03] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [15:03] soo, welcome everyone [15:03] first thing on our agenda are the open action items from last time [15:03] i [15:03] i'll go through them by person [15:03] astraljava: what about your two action-items? [15:04] #info astraljava to send information on the Xubuntu QA meeting - DONE [15:04] #info astraljava to look at enabling/disabling compositor - PENDING [15:05] ok [15:05] I can talk about the first one on QA section. [15:05] .. [15:05] sounds good [15:05] pleia2: what about your two items? (work on marketing products with knome, raise publicity on testing/docs) [15:06] #info pleia2 and knome to work on marketing products is in progress, I made some edits to Xubuntu/Marketing this past week but still need to gather content for fliers [15:06] #info pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs - no updates here [15:07] . [15:08] k, thanks [15:09] #info ochosi to send more information on Greybird and a request for feedback to ML - PENDING [15:09] #info information on Greybird has been distributed through the website and google+ so far, mailinglist will follow shortly [15:10] ok, since knome isn't present, this is it with open action-items from last time [15:10] personally i think the compositor-discussion should be postponed until astraljava has fully investigated [15:10] astraljava: what do you think? ^ [15:11] I agree, it needs more data to back up any decisions. [15:11] .. [15:11] ok, good, let's continue with teams [15:11] #topic development [15:11] mr_pouit, micahg: any further updates in the development department? [15:12] ok, let's skip ahead to QA and get back to development if one of the two comes around [15:12] #topic Quality Assurance [15:12] astraljava: take the stage :) [15:13] #info We had our QA meeting last Sunday, the minutes of which can be read at: [15:13] #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008252.html [15:14] #info We have again a similar meeting this coming Sunday, details can be found on the minutes above. [15:14] #info Loosely, new testers were guided on how to do quality assurance, how to follow the testcases, where to get images to be tested etc. [15:16] #info It was agreed that the testcases need more refinery. Related to that, we just had the Ubuntu QA community meeting. Agreed on there was that each point in testcase is critical, meaning if any of them fails, the whole test fails. [15:16] #info There's also going to be new testcases, and a new interface for administering them, for flavors as well. More news about this when the thing develops. [15:17] #info We have had a few tests done on the images (thanks hobgoblin, others!), but I need to gather a bit more data on how we're doing. This is more important to the upcoming milestone release, Alpha-2 next week. [15:18] But we should talk about that later this meeting, not strictly a QA thing. [15:18] .. [15:20] ok [15:20] astraljava: so you're done with QA for now? [15:20] Yep, that's what the '..' is there for. :) [15:20] ok :) [15:20] just wanted to make sure [15:20] #topic Marketing, Promotion [15:20] pleia2: ? [15:21] #info knome mentioned it in passing last week, but we have a LinkedIn Xubuntu Users group now which is linked on the website and marketing page (with contact info for admins): http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Xubuntu-Users-4058113 [15:22] #info I have some stickers to give away, but I'm going to blog about that on my personal blog and keep the "how to make stickers" stuff on the Products page [15:23] this week I'm going to review our "Define the Xubuntu target audience" on our /Marketing page to better define that as *marketing* target audience (broader target audience is addressed in the strat document [15:23] ^^ you can action me [15:23] that's pretty much it [15:23] .. [15:24] #action pleia2 to review "target audience" as "marketing target audience" on the Marketing page [15:24] ACTION: pleia2 to review "target audience" as "marketing target audience" on the Marketing page [15:24] #topic Artwork [15:24] as you know i've reworked parts of our default theme [15:25] #info Greybird has been reworked and a blog post on the website has informed people about some of the changes [15:26] #info Our icon-theme will also need a few tweaks, but we'll have to wait for our first (alpha) release to be able to test [15:26] astraljava: in fact this is something we could've discussed in QA, it would be great if people could also report missing icons or theme-bugs [15:27] is there anything we can add to the /Long test this cycle to specifically target some of the changes? [15:27] you mean the greybird-changes? [15:27] yeah [15:27] not really. if anything, it'll be more robust with the bright menus [15:27] the dark menus were a troublemaker from the beginning... [15:27] * pleia2 nods [15:28] Bugs can be filed as usual, and reported on ISO testing as well, nothing special there. [15:28] but there could again be changes in gtk3 or the unico-engine which might trigger bugs [15:28] yeah, i agree [15:28] i just wanted to make people more aware that visual glitches are also bugs :) [15:28] sure, just wondering if there is anything in particular we'll need to draw attention to in the testcase [15:28] yeah [15:29] tbh i haven't thought about it enough, it was more an idea just now [15:29] bluesabre did quite a lot of those small bug-reports for visual glitches last release. very useful stuff for me [15:30] maybe it's just the attention to visual detail [15:30] i'd say the panel, the menus and the desktop are the three first impressions [15:30] (I figured it was just annoying) :) [15:31] bluesabre: hehe, no seriously, it was really helpful [15:31] bluesabre: what would you draw attention to specifically for testers? [15:32] anyway, we can also discuss that after the meeting [15:32] no rush [15:32] skipping ahead... [15:32] #topic General updates [15:32] any more updates anyone? [15:36] I guess I should mention that anybody who wants to do translation work could have a look at the catfish update. [15:36] yup [15:36] lp:catfish-search [15:36] :) [15:36] please use a leading #info or #link [15:37] that way it'll get in the minutes [15:37] what do you think about sending an email to the ML with a call for translations? [15:37] Sure, where do I email that to? [15:38] i guess both the -devel and the -users list [15:38] #info Anyone who is interested in translation work, we need new translations for lp:catfish-search [15:38] #link https://launchpad.net/catfish-search [15:39] #action bluesabre to send email to our MLs calling for translations for lp:catfish-search [15:39] ACTION: bluesabre to send email to our MLs calling for translations for lp:catfish-search [15:39] any more updates? [15:40] Not in catfish-gtk3 anymore? [15:41] Unit193: no, that was a private branch [15:41] we made it a real launchpad-project now [15:41] so it can supersede current catfish properly [15:41] Missed that part, could be why no updates. :P [15:43] ok, let's skip ahead again [15:43] #topic Announcements [15:43] #info there's a review underway of the Xubuntu Strategy Document [15:43] #info An email has been sent by knome to the ML [15:43] #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008253.html [15:44] #info The community is asked to give feedback on the review [15:44] any other announcements? [15:44] pleia2, astraljava ? [15:45] nope [15:45] Nothing from me. [15:45] I'd assume the settings manager blueprint will be looked at later? [15:45] Unit193: do you need guidance/feedback for that or anything? [15:46] Probably skip to the next item on the agenda, anyway. [15:46] Just if I'm missing any programs, just trying to follow process? [15:46] Unit193: ok, we can look at it later if you want [15:46] two more updates [15:47] #info mr_pouit's work-items will have to be re-distributed, he'll be busy with RL during most of this cycle [15:47] #info astraljava will take a look at improving xfce4-display dialog this weekend [15:48] #info madnick is in process of forking unity-greeter as "xubuntu-greeter", which means we'll (hopefully) have a fully-fledged greeter for 12.10 [15:48] (actually those were three) [15:48] #topic New and emerging items [15:48] o/ [15:48] astraljava: shoot [15:49] This is the spot I want to use for Alpha-2 talk. [15:49] sure [15:49] go ahead [15:49] #info Alpha-2 milestones is during next week. Releases are always on Thursdays here in the *buntu-land. I'm gonna need to send a decision to the release meeting this Friday. [15:50] hobgoblin: You have been doing most of the testing. What is your feeling about the quality of the present images? [15:50] mostly good imo [15:51] the only bug I found which really annoyed me was the no partitions showing in thunar/usb's not mounting [15:51] the who bug is sorted I think [15:51] the "who bug"? [15:51] other than that - they all seem to be fine for me [15:52] I have no users on my system - a lightdm bug I believe [15:52] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/870297 [15:52] Launchpad bug 870297 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Lightdm logins not being logged in wtmp" [High,Triaged] [15:52] that one [15:53] ok [15:53] yeah, it's marked as fix committed, might take a bit until it lands [15:53] indeed [15:53] (but it also affects ubuntu) [15:53] (so maybe it won't take that long) [15:53] :) [15:53] I can try to do a daily test before friday too [15:53] astraljava: are there any downsides to releasing an alpha-2? [15:54] then we should start getting some release notes together [15:54] In any case, that bug won't affect to normal usage and releasability. [15:54] I'll manage to do some more before Friday too [15:54] ochosi: Not really, other than the slight overhead which pleia2 just mentioned. [15:54] pleia2: ok, actually now i have an icon-thing i'd like testers to look at in 12.10a² [15:55] gtk3 introduced symbolic-icons [15:55] ochosi: And of course maybe the increased traffic on support channels. :) [15:55] we already support them, but gtk3 apps might've switched even more of their icons to symbolic ones [15:55] so it would be great if people could look for broken icons in our gtk3 apps [15:55] But we're moving away from the topic here a little. Do we, as the team, support releasing the Alpha-2? [15:55] (evince,abiword,etc.) [15:56] astraljava: +1 [15:57] pleia2: Are you free to do some release note writing with me and knome? [15:57] Sweet, broken icons [15:57] astraljava: yep [15:58] Okay, then I guess we can release. [15:58] nice [15:58] #info The team decides to release Alpha-2 [15:58] #action astraljava, pleia2, knome to write release notes [15:58] ACTION: astraljava, pleia2, knome to write release notes [15:58] .. [15:58] Next Thursday is going to be fun [15:59] ok, what about the next meeting? same time next week? [15:59] +1 [15:59] +1 [15:59] (oh, actually i just see in my calendar now that it probably won't be possible for me to attend :( ) [16:00] astraljava: then you'll get your chance to chair ;) [16:00] ACK [16:00] :) [16:01] i just see now that you voted for bi-weekly meetings last time? [16:01] Yes, but today was special due to Alpha-2 next week. [16:02] having a meeting the day before alpha2 is probably good [16:02]