[01:14] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Create Your First App For Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/21/create-your-first-app-for-ubuntu/
[05:51] <christel> good morning
[06:17] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments 0.2: One Week Later - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/21/ubuntu-accomplishments-0-2-one-week-later/
[06:48] <soreau> Can anyone else confirm clicking on any experiment here http://www.chromeexperiments.com/webgl/ goes to a broken page of errors?
[06:49] <AlanBell> soreau: yeah, that looks broken
[06:49] <soreau> AlanBell: ok thanks
[06:49] <DJones> soreau: Testing on chrome in windows seems to be ok, no errors showing that I can see
[06:52] <DJones> This is what I see http://imagebin.org/217311
[06:54] <soreau> DJones: Maybe you didn't get what I said.. 'clicking on any experiment here.. broken..'
[06:54] <AlanBell> DJones: click a thingie like Chaos to Perfection
[06:54] <DJones> Ah yes, definately broken
[06:54] <soreau> alright, thanks for checking
[07:12] <diplo> Morning all
[07:25] <kaushal> Hi
[08:05] <popey> morning
[08:08] <daubers> o/
[08:19] <diplo> Busy in here this morning
[08:19] <diplo> :)
[08:21] <bigcalm> Hey kids :)
[08:31] <Gary> I drove into work today, felt so lazy
[08:35] <bigcalm> Gary: you came!
[08:38] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[08:38] <oimon> morning, why does installing ubuntu-restricted-extras fail due to an authentication error?
[08:39] <oimon> (from the sw centre rather than apt-get)
[08:39] <JamesTait> oimon: If it's a package authentication error, you might try apt-get update first.
[08:39] <BigRedS> as in an http 4xx?
[08:39] <andylockran> morning
[08:39] <bigcalm> BigRedS: that sounds like a drink
[08:39] <bigcalm> 404 Beer not found
[08:40] <oimon> hmm , i've done it by hand on command line instead...
[08:41] <nperry> Morn o/
[08:41] <JamesTait> IIRC, and I might not have the stack quite right, but Software Centre is a front-end for aptdaemon, which is a service layer on the same dpkg back-end as apt-get/aptitude/synaptic/wajig.
[08:41] <JamesTait> Something like that, anyway.
[08:42] <oimon> SC complains about untrsuted sources but has no way of saying yes, please go ahead
[08:42] <oimon> (on a fresh install, no additional repos added)
[08:43] <JamesTait> I rarely use SC myself, so I guess it's not surprising that I haven't seen this.  Sounds like something other people must have seen though, so there may be a bug report about it.
[08:46] <bigcalm> Got this in some change yesterday. Apparently retailing for around 32 quid :D http://www.thelondoncoincompany.com/coinimages/1338676889-2011_Capital_Cities_of_the_UK_Cardiff_One_Pound_Proof_Coin_R.jpg
[08:47] <diplo> I'd be selling that then bigcalm :)
[08:47]  * bigcalm adds it to his collection of in circulation coins that look slightly different
[08:48] <bigcalm> diplo: the face value of my collection is about 35 quid now I think. Guess I could get more if I was like that
[08:48] <oimon> bug 705988
[08:49] <oimon> bigcalm, humans are sentimental
[08:49] <oimon> sell the quid for 32 quid and then you have 32 shiny things to look at
[08:49] <diplo> Not sure if any of you are up on laptop hardware, but anyone recommend any laptops for the £300-400 mark
[08:49] <diplo> no ubuntu going on it as of yet, for my sister
[08:50] <oimon> got mine from dell outlet at around 450 and still feels new after 4 years
[08:50] <diplo> More recommendations of something you may have bought
[08:50] <diplo> Ive debated the outlet oimon but when i last looked the warranty sucked on there ?
[08:50] <oimon> i got a 3yr warranty on mine
[08:50] <oimon> a lot of machines on there are business ones
[08:50] <diplo> oh and the other thing, was looking for myself
[08:51] <oimon> it's treated the same as normal warranty
[08:51] <diplo> it said you may not get 100% of what is on the site
[08:51] <diplo> I was looking at a Lattitude E58* Series i think
[08:51] <diplo> Said it may or may not come with this or that
[08:52] <oimon> i've bought many from outlet for a stingey employer , they've been fine
[08:52] <diplo> Cool, will take a look
[08:53] <diplo> And you are talking about my employer
[08:53] <diplo> :P
[08:53] <diplo> Funny thing is, they wouldn't spend hardly anything on a laptop for me, but a few weeks/month later we went to visit HO for a 2 day stay over and we spent more money out drinking on the company in one night than they would spend on a laptop for me?!?!?
[08:58] <BigRedS> diplo: night out benefits everybody, laptop only you
[08:59] <diplo> This is the same everytime we go up though
[09:00] <diplo> I think everyone ( only 15 of us ) would prefer a year of not going out at all and all get decent hardware :)
[09:00] <BigRedS> haha, yeah
[09:00] <BigRedS> but management would prefer to get drunk :)
[09:01] <diplo> Oh aint that the truth, think the MD is close to alcoholic
[09:06] <diplo> I have had thejoys of making RPM's the last couple of days for CentOS 4/5/6
[09:06] <diplo> Why can't we move :(
[09:15] <bigcalm> A new Soap Box ep! Yay!
[09:16] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:16] <bigcalm> Howdy brobostigon
[09:16] <brobostigon> hi bigcalm
[09:24] <oimon> when stuff crashes in ubuntu now, we don't get feedback on the bug id , how do you find out if it's a known bug?
[09:26] <kaushal> Hi
[09:26] <kaushal> Any way to add multiple users on linux server using bash script?
[09:28] <diplo> Using a for loop and loading from a file or array ?
[09:28] <BigRedS> for i in <list of users>; do useradd -m $i; done
[09:29] <bigcalm> Which will use defaults and not set passwords
[09:29] <bigcalm> You might want to flesh out the useradd command a little more
[09:30] <BigRedS> yeah, I wrote a ridiculous oneliner the other day for parsing passwd and shadow on one server and sshing in to another and adding all the users
[09:32] <oimon> anyone know the web page that lists the most common ubuntu crashes?
[09:33] <oimon> ah https://errors.ubuntu.com/
[09:34] <diplo> :)
[09:35] <kaushal> BigRedS: Any example?
[09:35] <kaushal> diplo: Any sample script?
[09:35] <BigRedS> I can only find it before I fixed it and I can't remember what it needed...
[09:36] <popey> oimon, you don't basically
[09:36] <popey> oimon, you can unpack the crash and manually file a bug though
[09:37] <BigRedS> kaushal: http://paste.debian.net/175607/
[09:37] <BigRedS> note that it neither works nor is particularly robust, though :)
[09:37] <kaushal> BigRedS: so that will add user and set password?
[09:37] <BigRedS> wait, that's when I only just started looking at getting passwords
[09:37] <BigRedS> no, it wont
[09:37] <BigRedS> about half an hour later that started doing that
[09:38] <BigRedS> when I fixed it, but I can't remember how and it's not in my history
[09:47] <oimon> popey, shame :( i would like to know if my crashing issue is being worked on or resolved somewhere
[09:48] <popey> oimon, what's crashing/
[09:48] <popey> ?
[09:48] <oimon> openbox
[09:49] <oimon> every 15 mins
[09:50] <popey> if you install apport-retrace then when it crashes it will prompt you to retrace it which you can attach to a bug
[09:50] <popey> or it could be one of them https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openbox/+bugs
[09:51] <popey> or run "sudo ubuntu-bug /var/crash/crashfilename.crash
[09:51] <popey> which is easier
[09:51] <popey> and lets you file a new bug
[09:53] <oimon> it's either ubuntu software center or thunderbird mail causing it...
[09:53] <oimon> i mean notifications
[10:01] <MooDoo> hello all
[10:03] <dogmatic69> I have encrypted home on a server, and when ssh'ing into it, the encrypted folder is unmounted while still logged on
[10:04] <dogmatic69> how can I fix this?
[10:04] <dogmatic69> its only started happening recently
[10:10] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:11] <dogmatic69> o/
[10:13] <bigcalm> Morning
[10:13] <AlanBell> I should boot back into a unity session at some point
[10:13] <AlanBell> gnome-session-fallback is so nice though :(
[10:16] <dogmatic69> Just found this bug 691237
[10:16] <dogmatic69> sure enough, sudo is causing it :/
[10:17] <diplo> dogmatic69: I guess that's why I don't encrypt things, just in case something goes wrong :/
[10:17] <diplo> AlanBell: Let me know how that goes :)
[10:17] <diplo> :D
[10:17] <dogmatic69> this home encrypted stuff is the biggest mistake ever
[10:18] <dogmatic69> now that bug was marked as fixed
[10:19] <diplo> I understand the reasoning behind it, I guess i don't trust it enough or myself to make sure that I have backups of stuff if it all goes wrong :)
[10:19] <BigRedS> yeah, I have found the priorities as regards linux-on-the-desktop downright hilarious recently
[10:19] <BigRedS> encrypted home, two brand-new DEs, really quick boot
[10:20] <BigRedS> but still we're using network mangler and resume from hibernat takes about three weeks
[10:20] <gord> i thought we as a world had agreed that hibernate was useless by this point?
[10:21] <BigRedS> Oh, good
[10:21] <BigRedS> well, I'd like to use it sometimes, but if we're all agreed that we're not using it any more that's a close second :)
[10:21] <gord> we don't even offer it as an option in ubuntu iirc
[10:22] <BigRedS> Oh, cool. The only thing I'm likely to hibernate is running Debian
[10:22] <bigcalm> It's there in xubuntu
[10:23] <BigRedS> I think it's still in the 'what to do when I press the power button' options in gnome3 there
[10:23] <BigRedS> bigcalm: yeah, the mechanism'll still be there, just no button for it in Unity
[10:23] <bigcalm> Ah
[10:24] <davmor2> bigcalm: Hey dude
[10:24] <davmor2> czajkowski: Prodington Prod Morning
[10:25] <Pendulum> davmor2: she's on holiday
[10:25] <matti> issyl0: :)
[10:25]  * bigcalm reboots his parents' server and hopes that they aren't actually home and using it
[10:26] <davmor2> Pendulum: Well she'll come back to a bruise from all the prodding ;)
[10:26] <bigcalm> The server came back, that's good :)
[10:27] <davmor2> bigcalm: it should drop if a user is logged in anyway and it warns users to save work and log out :P
[10:27] <bigcalm> davmor2: yeah, you think my parents use their server for more than CIFS ;)
[10:36] <Myrtti> *humdidum*
[10:37] <popey> bug 1015969
[10:38] <popey> anyone fancy confirming?
[10:38] <popey> (btw you're famous) (see screenshots)
[10:40] <davmor2> popey: again is there a reason you started using xchat I thought you were a irrssi man through and through?  You might of answered yesterday and I missed it though
[10:40] <popey> i am an irssi fan
[10:40] <popey> fancied a change
[10:43] <bigcalm> Just checked my coin collection. I was wrong in my previous estimate of face value. It's actually £55.99
[10:43] <bigcalm> Oh what I could do with that...
[10:45] <nperry> popey, I will confirm for you.. Doesn't happen when not full screen.
[10:46] <popey> it does here
[10:46] <popey> i am trying to drag left and right
[10:47] <popey> not up and down
[10:47] <Myrtti> what's the eggtimer app people use nowadays?
[10:47] <Myrtti> I tried to install the one that's in the repositories but it refuses due to a dependency problem
[10:47] <Dave2> I use my microwave.
[10:47] <Dave2> (It's all I use my microwave for)
[10:48] <dwatkins> I use my phone.
[10:49] <dwatkins> I also have a little timer I can carry around and clip on to things or use the magnet to put it on the fridge, radiator etc.
[10:52] <bigcalm> I use 'Stopwatch & Timer' on my phone
[10:52] <Myrtti> well I'm more interested because there's a game that requires action every six hours, three hours or half an hour
[10:53] <Myrtti> and I'd want several of these alarms
[10:53] <Myrtti> and I know the old gnome applet did that, but it seems uninstallable
[11:09] <AlanBell> popey: you never could drag left and right on internal scrollbars, you have to sneak up on them from the left and grab the panel bar when it isn't looking
[11:09] <popey> is there an existing bug?
[11:17] <AlanBell> bug 999982 but I thought there was a better one
[11:17] <AlanBell> might be in unity or something rather than overlayscrollbar
[11:18] <AlanBell> or ayatana-scrollbar
[11:18] <AlanBell> or it might be that way by design
[12:13] <oimon> popey , there might be a dupe on that xchat one somewhere since i had that issue too, and either reported it or me too'd it. however, me too'ing history isn't stored in lp is it ?
[12:14] <popey> i have reported it as a dupe
[12:14] <popey> and contacted the upstream dev to find out who can fix it
[12:20] <oimon> :D
[12:21] <oimon> popey seems to be the way to get bugs fixed
[12:21] <popey> not really, I just looked up who to poke and poke them
[12:21] <popey> anyone else could do that
[12:24] <gord> can we start calling it a bug that xchat copies anything you select? single most annoying thing it does
[12:24] <gord> need to paste something into irc? best not click on the xchat chat window first, it'll get wiped
[12:25] <directhex> gord, paste buffer is regular X behaviour
[12:25] <oimon> gord, never noticed that issue
[12:25] <directhex> saving PRIMARY's contents into CLIPBOARD, now that's nonstandard... probably a cheap workaround for OSes with only one clipboard
[12:26] <gord> i really don't care what is regilar X behaviour, almost all regular x behaviour is really annoying
[12:27] <oimon> can't the clipbaord to break with xchat
[12:27] <AlanBell> sounds like a bug, selecting stuff should just be what middle click paste does
[12:27] <oimon> select on webpage, copy, click xchat and then paste or middle click - works
[12:27] <directhex> AlanBell, indeed. freedesktop.org says CLIPBOARD should only be set with explicit edit/copy action
[12:27] <gord> as far as i am aware its by design, there are windows builds that only exist to get rid of this thing. but no linux builds
[12:27] <directhex> oimon, that's also wrong behaviour :)
[12:28] <oimon> gord you mean double click in xchat copies it?
[12:28] <AlanBell> directhex: not entirely wrong, just two different things surely
[12:28] <gord> i mean you click on the main text window
[12:28] <directhex> AlanBell, goes against the FDO spec
[12:29] <directhex> AlanBell, highlighting text should fill in PRIMARY. edit/copy should fill in CLIPBOARD. middle click should paste PRIMARY. edit/paste should paste CLIPBOARD. there shouldn't be any overlap
[12:29] <gord> it might be a selection in the main text window, irc moves so tis easy to accidentally select
[12:29] <directhex> i.e. middle click should not paste CLIPBOARD
[12:29] <directhex> and highlight should not populate CLIPBOARD
[12:31] <directhex> and nobody has a clue what SECONDARY is for, even Xorg developers
[12:32] <AlanBell> directhex: yeah, but if you select something (and populate PRIMARY) then copy your selection (populating CLIPBOARD) then go to xchat and discover that middle click and ctrl+v have a similar effect then that is OK
[12:33] <directhex> AlanBell, the problem cited by gord is that if you go to firefox, and copy the url (into CLIPBOARD), then click on your xchat window, if you accidentally highlighted any text, then paste pastes that new text, because xchat incorrectly populates CLIPBOARD with highlights
[12:34] <directhex> you should never be able to "accidentally" overwrite CLIPBOARD.
[12:36] <AlanBell> agreed, I was saying oimon's scenario was normal
[12:36] <AlanBell> 13:28 < oimon> select on webpage, copy, click xchat and then paste or middle click - works
[12:37] <oimon> works for me. if i don't click copy, then primary and secondary are different, as expected
[12:37] <directhex> you're not using SECONDARY. that's the third paste buffer :p
[12:37] <oimon> except if you double click/highlight a word in xchat
[12:39] <AlanBell> ooh, there is something wrong gord
[12:39] <AlanBell> oh, no there isn't I was failing to copy with ctrl+shift+v from a terminal
[12:39] <AlanBell> s/v/c/
[12:40] <popey> it was fixed in 2006
[12:41] <directhex> http://standards.freedesktop.org/clipboards-spec/clipboards-latest.txt
[12:41] <AlanBell> ah, selecting stuff in xchat does populate the clipboard
[12:42] <popey>         /* If the entry owns PRIMARY, setting the new text will clear PRIMARY;
[12:42] <popey>          * so we need to re-set PRIMARY after setting the text.
[12:42] <popey>          * See bug #345356 and bug #347067.
[12:42] <popey>          */
[12:42] <popey> that bit
[12:42] <popey> stupid bot
[12:44] <BigRedS> aw, you'll hurt its feelings
[12:44] <gord> there is something wrong because its bleeding annoying, whatever the rationale :P
[12:52] <diplo> Seems a massive outage of 21CN :/
[13:09] <MartijnVdS> popey: that vim clutch is COOL
[13:09] <popey> its something
[13:09] <popey> not sure it's "cool" :)
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> popey: I have a few coworkers who want to build/try it
[13:13] <popey> hah
[13:14] <nperry> If only sublime text didn't exist.. I would go back to using VIM.
[13:14] <BigRedS> I keep being pointed at sublime
[13:14] <BigRedS> but apparently it doesn't work in a terminal
[13:14] <nperry> BigRedS, it works for me in terminal.
[13:15] <BigRedS> Oh! Every time I ask I'm told it's a gui app
[13:17] <directhex> sublime? i want something better than limes, not worse.
[13:18] <nperry> BigRedS, it is a gui app - I thought you meant it couldn't be ran from terminal to "gksu sublime /etc/apt/sources.list" for example
[13:18] <BigRedS> oh!
[13:18] <BigRedS> no, I can't ssh somewhere and run it
[13:19] <nperry> No you can't
[13:20] <BigRedS> directhex: hohoho
[13:20] <BigRedS> Actually, I'm blatantly going to reuse that
[13:27] <diplo> nperry: Have you bought it ?
[13:28] <nperry> diplo, No I havne't
[13:29] <diplo> Seems quite a nice UI, just giving it ago now
[13:49] <nperry> Kind of regret not doing the summer solstice this year :<
[13:52] <BigRedS> 'doing'?
[13:56]  * Monotoko hears the audible sound of /dev/null
[13:56] <bigcalm> nperry: it happened without you having to do anything
[13:59] <nperry> Yeah, but the whole going to stonehenge thing to see the sunrise.
[14:02] <BigRedS> Ah
[14:02] <BigRedS> do it in the winter
[14:02] <BigRedS> Summer solstice is for not doing things :)
[14:07] <Monotoko> plus you have the added benefit of the possible armageddon during the winter... should be fun to watch from stone henge :)
[14:08] <Monotoko> (I was joking - I don't believe anything is gonna happen... just to clear that up :P)
[14:15] <AlanBell> there is a car henge next to tower bridge at the moment
[14:16] <popey> there is?
[14:16]  * popey is going that way for dinner
[14:17] <AlanBell> south bank, saw something about it on TV and saw it from the boat yesterday
[14:19] <directhex> i have an ssd :D
[14:19] <AlanBell> doctor should be able to sort that out fairly easily directhex
[14:20] <directhex> 240G sata3 SSD, screwdriver, USB drive caddy, 3.5" adapter, and cables: £132.
[14:21] <Monotoko> AlanBell, that's a bash moment :P
[14:23] <nperry> directhex, that is a deal, ebay?
[14:23] <directhex> nperry, nah, some tiny welsh parts vendor
[14:23] <directhex> nperry, current "next best" is 256gb samsung for £144
[14:33] <diplo> Anyone use jquery UI datepicker in here on website stuff
[14:34] <nperry> We use it on our internal data management system.
[14:35] <nperry> But from looking at the demo on http://jqueryui.com/demos/datepicker/ we are just using that source there.
[14:35] <diplo> Can't get date to display after selecting in picker on IE9 32bit running on 64bit
[14:35] <diplo> Ever seen that ?
[14:35] <bigcalm> diplo: yes, I do, quite a bit
[14:35] <diplo> Seems fairly common error, wondering if anyone has got around it
[14:36] <bigcalm> diplo: not seen it, but I don't test in IE :D
[14:36] <diplo> Neither do I/we
[14:36]  * bigcalm wonders if his windows server has woken up yet
[14:36] <diplo> normally, but we thought we better see if it works
[14:36] <diplo> And the only issue so far is datepicker
[14:37] <diplo> Win7 64bit with 32bit IE9 it breaks.. seen loads of posts but no fixes apart from installing 64bit IE
[14:37] <nperry> Who tests there website for IE anymore....
[14:37] <diplo> Not us for the last year or so, I thought I better had
[14:37] <nperry> Just tell them to use chrome or firefox and mention about god killing cats every time IE is loaded
[14:38] <diplo> heh, tbh we rarely touch IE.. brand new product and didn't want someone complaining that's all
[14:38] <nperry> You could go the whole hog and have a story about a poor cat that got killed by god for IE usage.
[14:46] <bigcalm> VM's SuperHub restarts itself every time you add an IP address to be assigned to a MAC address
[14:46] <bigcalm> Not optimal
[14:51] <diplo> Right, I give up searching / trying to fix that
[14:51] <diplo> IE sucks :)
[14:51] <diplo> We all knew it, I'm just saying it again
[15:01] <bigcalm> My windows server doesn't like me visiting websites in IE. Too much hassle to make it otherwise
[15:03] <diplo> :)
[15:07] <bigcalm> !ping
[15:08] <bigcalm> Oh cheer up, lubotu3
[15:10] <diplo> bigcalm = bored?
[15:10] <bigcalm> diplo: maybe a little, but more concerned for my connection
[15:10] <bigcalm> It's very iffy recently
[15:12] <diplo> Hasn't it been dodgey for months, remember you complaining about it months ago
[15:12] <popey> can someone hilight my nick pls?
[15:12] <Gary> why popey
[15:12] <popey> hmm
[15:12] <popey> no notifications
[15:12] <bigcalm> popey: no notifications?
[15:12] <popey> correct
[15:12] <popey> oh, late
[15:26] <pythoniscodeman> I feel confortable with my way around the terminal bash prompt
[15:26] <pythoniscodeman> in terms of file nav
[15:26] <pythoniscodeman> but..how about hard links?
[15:26] <pythoniscodeman> would they be of any use to me/.
[15:36] <diplo> AlanBell: Did you think it was the time / setup of xhprof the other day, thinking about giving it a go in the morning
[15:36] <diplo> it was worth the time*
[15:37] <AlanBell> yeah, it is really interesting the output of it, but it does take time to understand it
[15:37] <AlanBell> and then you may or may not be able to do anything about it
[15:38] <diplo> heh, we have an in house app and I think it maybe worth it as we seem to have quite a few issues where it's either slow or overly heavy usage when it shouldn't be
[15:38] <diplo> Like to see if i can track it down, but don't want to waste time
[15:38] <diplo> :)
[15:38] <daubers> Urgh.... some mass mailing company the high ups decided to use wants me to point a domain at their domain servers... not particularly comfortable with that I have to admit
[15:40] <diplo> I had to do something like that at my last place daubers
[15:40] <diplo> Used SPF text records to say it wasn't spam etc
[15:40] <diplo> I wasn't overly happy, but I was instructed to do so, just took me a long time :)
[15:42] <daubers> diplo: yeah, really not happy as I was told this wouldn't be necessary
[15:44] <diplo> Marketing companies suck, give them they are good at selling to the right/wrong people
[15:45] <diplo> even after being told not to by there own people
[15:48] <diplo> Run your own dns server daubers, or got to have someone else change for you ?
[15:49] <daubers> diplo: It's run through the domain provider, but it's all controlled by us here.
[15:49] <daubers> I like to know that the domains aren't being used for nefarious purposes
[15:50] <BigRedS> surely they can let you axfr their servers and you can just keep tabs on what's in teh zonefile?
[15:50] <daubers> considering it took their support people 20 minutes to turn around and say that it needs to point to them or they'll buy the domain of us instead... I'm not sure they're that aware
[15:51] <diplo> Mine were the same daubers, had what they wanted on paper but didn't know much else
[15:51] <daubers> diplo: Wasn't dotmailer was it?
[15:52] <diplo> Honestly can't remember now, been a couple of years since I left
[16:03] <kvarley> How can I diagnose why I have a "Internal Server Error" on my apache2 install on Ubuntu 12.04?
[16:04] <BigRedS> kvarley: check the Apache error logs
[16:04] <BigRedS> /var/log/apache2/error.log unless you put them elsewhere
[16:04] <BigRedS> what sort of script is it? Perl, PHP, Python, something else?
[16:05] <BigRedS> (you put them elsewhere with an ErrorLog directive in teh vhost)
[16:08] <kvarley> BigRedS: How can I force apache to regenerate a default config?
[16:08] <kvarley> BigRedS: Reinstalling did nothing
[16:10] <nperry> Hmmm... I wonder if i can plug my 5.1 speakers into this work laptop... The speakers are her are crap
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> you only have 2 ears
[16:14] <BigRedS> kvarley: you could purge and then install I suppose
[16:14] <BigRedS> but if you're getting a 503 error it's probably that Apache works and the script doesn't
[16:14] <BigRedS> else Apache would simply not run
[16:15] <BigRedS> or that a setting in apache is wrong, but you might be asking it to do something it doesn't do by default
[16:15] <BigRedS> what did the log say?
[16:15] <kvarley> BigRedS: I've got it to work now. I wiped the configuration file and got the default one and it now seems to work
[16:15] <nperry> Humm it seems if I plug one of the cable it kind of works
[16:18] <nperry> And the bass works... That'd do me
[16:20] <BigRedS> kvarley: aha, cool
[16:50] <davmor2> bigcalm: So 2 hours on the phone to a Virgin tech for him to say yes it's not working correctly sorry I can't help you we'll send you a new hub
[16:51]  * BigRedS remembers his VM days
[16:51] <bigcalm> davmor2: this is my 2nd hub as well
[16:51] <bigcalm> davmor2: seemed to fix a lot
[16:53] <davmor2> bigcalm: well mine currently on a fresh hardware reset will do 60meg for all of 3 seconds then I'll get anything from 61k to 1meg or a complete stop,  It died on him a total of 8 times
[16:54] <davmor2> bigcalm: switched it to modem only mode an windows could detect no network
[17:14] <directhex> well this is a bad start. windows installer won't start
[17:15] <BigRedS> it's trying to tell you something
[17:18] <ball> Two questions: 1) What was the last version of Ubuntu that was available (as in .iso image) for PowerPC Macintosh?  b) Are there any other Linux distributions that might suit an old i3 Mac?
[17:18] <ball> erm... 1) and b)  ;-)
[17:18] <BigRedS> There is a commuinity-driven PPC Ubuntu port I think
[17:18] <BigRedS> Debian still does PPC, is an i3 a G3?
[17:20] <popey> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/10.10/release/ 10.10 ppc
[17:21] <popey> oh, 12.04 too
[17:21] <directhex> hm, not totally broken, just hella slow
[17:21] <popey> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/precise/release/
[17:21] <popey> ^^ ball
[17:21] <ball> BigRedS: G3
[17:22] <popey> that directory has an image for G3
[17:22] <ball> popey: Downloading it now, thanks!
[17:22] <popey> np
[17:24] <BigRedS> ball: yeah, I know Lenny ran on G3s, but if Ubuntu's what you're after that's probably better
[17:24] <ball> I don't know what a Lenny is.
[17:24] <ball> Ubuntu's probably not what I would choose ideally, but I'm willing to give it a try.
[17:25] <BigRedS> ah, it's an old version of Debian
[17:25] <BigRedS> Debian's codenames are Toy Story characters
[17:26] <ball> I can't picture Lenny.
[17:30] <ball> Ah, okay, the binoculars.
[17:32] <BigRedS> yeah
[17:32] <BigRedS> took me months to work out who squeeze was
[17:34] <davmor2> directhex: it's windows and you seem surprised it's slow
[17:36] <ball> I'm impressed that the same .iso worked for Mac and POWER5 boxen.
[17:41] <ball> Oh dear.
[18:31] <jacobw> lol @ months to work out squeeze
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> itym wheezy?
[18:34] <jacobw> wheezy is obvious
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> I hope we upgrade faster than we did the squeeze upgrade
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> (at work)
[18:52] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[18:52] <pr0ph3t> how do I connect through a proxy from ubuntu?
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: by configuring it in the proxy preferences?
[18:53] <pr0ph3t> yes MartijnVdS, that would be the best option I think :-P
[18:54] <MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: it's in "System settings" -> Network
[18:54] <pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, I'm blind, sorry
[18:55] <mgdm> so Precise is the first Linux distro I've used on this laptop where the display applet doesn't crash X
[18:55] <mgdm> but hotplugging a screen *does* crash X
[18:55] <mgdm> bah :-)
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: as in "you didn't see it before" or "you can't see at all, ever"?
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: cool :)
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: which graphics chipset is that?
[18:56] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: Radeon X300, IIRC
[18:56] <pr0ph3t> I was in network settings, but I was looking for proxy preferences under Wireless
[18:57] <pr0ph3t> but if I'm behind a router I should configure the proxy on the router settings and not on the single linux box right?
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: my Radeon (at work) puts random garbage in windows sometimes
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: unfocus/refocus fixes that.. but till
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: if it's a laptop, I'd do that
[18:58] <jacobw> i'm not sure how regular debian's releases are now
[18:59] <jacobw> i've read about the two year cycles, but it took a long time for squeeze to freeze
[19:00] <pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, set it up from the router? I have a linux, a windows and a mac box at home, best option is router I guess
[19:01] <jacobw> does the router have a proxy?
[19:01] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: actually, scratch that. It shut down the DisplayPort connection, hence is useless
[19:02] <mgdm> 'DisplayPort link status failed', which doesn't happen in Windows or with the binary driver
[19:02] <mgdm> Hence, it's useless :(
[19:03]  * mgdm tries gnome-fallback
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: no you can set it up per "wired" or "wireless" network I think
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> on the lcient
[19:26] <pr0ph3t> should I take particular precautions when connecting to a proxy server? Am I risking?
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> you should trust the proxy's admin, imho
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> Every website you visit might be seen by the proxy admin
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> and if they're really evil (and have a trusted CA certificate) they could even read your SSL traffic
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> so.. only use a proxy if it's really necessary (like on a corporate network where the admins have decided)
[19:27] <pr0ph3t> it's a free proxy, I don't know the admin unfortunately
[19:28] <AlanBell> they can also tamper with the traffic and insert adverts and malware if they want to
[19:28] <pr0ph3t> thanks for your help by the way MartijnVdS
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: then don't use it :)
[19:30]  * AlanBell will be installing quantal tomorrow to test Bug 1010179
[19:31] <diplo> Evening all
[19:52] <directhex> i am on my ssd :)
[19:52] <directhex> on windows still though
[19:52] <directhex> ssdbuntu is next
[20:31] <diplo> Seeing the speed difference already directhex  ?
[20:36] <nperry> http://changelog.complete.org/archives/7562-i-introduced-my-5-year-old-and-2-year-old-to-startx-and-xmonad-theyre-delighted
[20:36] <nperry> diplo, you don't see a speed difference from HDD and SSD on Windows :p
[20:36] <diplo> heh
[20:37]  * mgdm hugs gnome-fallback
[20:37] <mgdm> this is just like the old days
[20:39]  * jacobw is looking at MATE 
[20:40] <mgdm> jacobw: what's that again? I recognise the name
[20:40] <ali1234> gnome 2 fork
[20:40] <mgdm> Ah yes
[20:40] <ali1234> gnome-fallback is better
[20:40] <mgdm> I tried Cinnamon, which was nice enough, but this fallback mode is even better
[20:41] <BigRedS> I tried cinnamon at fosdem
[20:41] <jacobw> i've come to the conclusion that fallback was all i needed before
[20:41] <BigRedS> it felt like 2001 :)
[20:41] <diplo> I was using cinnamon for a few weeks
[20:41] <diplo> But it would crash out of nowwhere for me
[20:41] <ali1234> cinnamon does not actually fix any of the problems with gnome shell
[20:41] <ali1234> it just throws a task bar and start menu on top of it
[20:42] <brobostigon> i am happy with stright gnome-shell, yes, some bits need some adjustmment, abd alot of things have been improved on, since early development. but overall, i have few complaints.
[20:43] <nperry> Its all about unity :/
[20:43] <ali1234> no.
[20:43] <ali1234> at least gnome shell isn't buggy
[20:44] <brobostigon> ali1234: it is 99% perecent stable here, i agree.
[20:44] <diplo> I've not tried it for a while, had issues with that as well
[20:44] <diplo> Maybe time to try again, I think the issue was installing it ontop of 11.10 install
[20:44] <AlanBell> mgdm: yeah, I am on fallback too, it does work rather well!
[20:45] <diplo> 12.04 is defo more stable, main issue i have with it is dual screen
[20:45] <diplo> Fallback here as well
[20:45] <diplo> Keep trying others and coming back
[20:45] <AlanBell> I think I will update to quantal and try unity there
[20:45] <ali1234> fallback will never die
[20:46] <mgdm> Long live fallback!
[20:46] <ali1234> i highly recommend fallback users to install human-theme as well
[20:46] <nperry> AlanBell, I'm on quantal on this laptop...
[20:46] <ali1234> you can actually tell which window is focussed then
[20:46] <diplo> Will remember that tomorrow
[20:46] <nperry> Unity is still unity.
[20:46] <brobostigon> well, i think evetually, once things have advanced enough, fallback will be redundant, it is only there, to support gnome3 on older non-opengl capable hw.
[20:46] <ali1234> no, that isn't true
[20:47] <ali1234> fallback will never be redundant until gnome shell goes away
[20:47] <ali1234> and i would put money on that happening first
[20:47] <brobostigon> i am just looking at the problem logically, as to why it exists, and the problem it solves, and the reason it is there.
[20:48] <ali1234> why it exists?
[20:48] <ali1234> it exists because the majority of users do not like gnome-shell
[20:48] <brobostigon> yes, and logic tells me, my above reasoning, to be correct.
[20:49] <mgdm> ali1234: shoudl I be able to add launcher icons to the top bar like I could in GNOME2?
[20:49] <brobostigon> ali1234: because, if all hw, was opengl capable, then there would be no point really, in fallback.
[20:49] <ali1234> mgdm: in fallback? yes
[20:50] <ali1234> brobostigon: no, that's what the gnome-shell developers said about the very early gnome-fallback which no longer esists
[20:50] <brobostigon> ali1234: think back, the argument you made above, was made at the start of gnome2 development aswell, and what happened.
[20:50] <ali1234> now that gnome-shell runs on llvm-pipe (or will soon) that thing no longer exists
[20:50] <AlanBell> early gnome-fallback was unuseable, but it is now rather good
[20:50] <mgdm> ali1234: right-clicking it does nothing, which was how I did it before
[20:50]  * mgdm will play later
[20:50] <ali1234> now gnome-fallback means gnome panel running on gtk3
[20:50] <ali1234> mgdm: you add shortcuts to top panel by dragging them from start menu...
[20:51] <AlanBell> mgdm: for me the panels are not as fully featured as they used to be, which is totally fine
[20:51] <ali1234> mgdm: also all the old stuff you did on gnome-panel, now you have to hold alt+windows and right click
[20:51] <ali1234> the panels do absolutely everything that they used to
[20:51] <mgdm> wooo
[20:51] <AlanBell> oh, didn't know that
[20:51] <mgdm> perfect!
[20:51] <ali1234> they didn't in the old crappy fallback that was "just a temporary solution until gnome-shell is done"
[20:51] <diplo> I'm still on 10.10 on this PC \o/
[20:52] <ali1234> but as i said, that thing is dead cos everyne hated it
[20:52] <diplo> Work PC is 12.04
[20:52] <AlanBell> gosh, right click on a launcher and *see what it does*
[20:52] <ali1234> AlanBell: what does it do?
[20:52] <AlanBell> "firefox %u" in this instance
[20:52] <brobostigon> ali1234: that is not accurate, i talk to many people who like it in many ways, and use it everyday, and like its simplicity.
[20:53] <ali1234> brobostigon: well i talk to many+1 people who hate it. anecdotes are useless
[20:53] <AlanBell> you can set launchers to be arbitary commands without tying yourself in knots
[20:53] <brobostigon> ali1234: agreed, it is a matter of choice. and that is what it is all about, and what works better for everyone individually.
[20:53] <ali1234> AlanBell: it's just backed by a .desktop somewhere, same as unity
[20:54] <ali1234> would be nice if right clicking supported unity quicklists... :)
[20:54] <AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, but you can get to it
[20:54] <ali1234> yeah that is a bonus
[20:54] <ali1234> also right clicking "applications" lets you get to the menu editor
[20:54] <ali1234> basically it all works exactly like it used to
[20:55] <ali1234> isn't it amazing how using unity and then coming back to a proper desktop, and you're amazed at how easy everything is?
[20:55] <AlanBell> yeah, and I used Unity for at least a year
[20:55] <ali1234> same here
[20:55] <diplo> All what you guys are saying is what is annoying about unity for me, I like lots of parts of unity, but the crashing/dual screen issues are a no goer
[20:55] <AlanBell> diplo: I use unity with dual screens normally, it is fine for me
[20:56] <diplo> :(
[20:56] <AlanBell> apart from randomly going back to mirrored screens on occasion
[20:56] <ali1234> yes most of the dual screen problems were fixed, except for the retarded insistence of the launcher *always* being on the left side of every screen
[20:56] <diplo> yeah well that's exactly what i mean
[20:56]  * AlanBell upgrades to quantal
[20:56] <diplo> it's a LTS, it's just to buggy to be a lts
[20:56] <ali1234> and note launcher-on-left isn't a bug, it's a design requirement
[20:57] <ali1234> that's not to say there aren't plenty of bugs in unity... but they don't generally involve dual screen mode
[20:57] <AlanBell> except for rtl languages where it is on the right
[20:57] <ali1234> is that really true?
[20:57] <AlanBell> You have to download a total of 966 M. This download will take about 9 minutes with your connection.
[20:57] <ali1234> screenshots?
[20:58] <ali1234> and does it also flip the window controls?
[20:59] <diplo> I also don't like on dual screen that you have to have dual launchers, i set mine to hide but it used to catch moving between screens
[20:59] <ali1234> you can turn that off
[20:59] <AlanBell> you don't have to have dual launchers
[20:59] <AlanBell> and you don't have to have the annoying stickyness between screens
[20:59] <ali1234> but i can't do without a launcher on every screen
[21:00] <AlanBell> I normally have a launcher on the left of the leftmost screen
[21:00] <ali1234> if i run something fullscreen on the primary monitor there must be a way to launch applications from monitor 2
[21:00] <diplo> AlanBell: that's what i wanted but couldn't get it to do it
[21:00] <AlanBell> I would also like a launcher on the right of the rightmost screen, but design says no
[21:01] <AlanBell> diplo: it is in the displays dialog, click a monitor and I think it is a checkbox to display a laucher on each monitor
[21:01] <diplo> Been out since initial release ? As i didn't see that before
[21:02] <ali1234> for 12.04 yes
[21:02] <ali1234> in fact the default is "not on all monitors"
[21:02] <AlanBell> it changed a few times in the dev cycle for 12.04
[21:02] <ali1234> actually putting a launcher on every monitor has not been default behaviour in any release
[21:02] <AlanBell> it was default at around beta 1 I think
[21:02] <ali1234> yes, it was default for a while during development
[21:02] <ali1234> but not in any release
[21:03] <diplo> Well for whatever i tried i couldn't stop the second
[21:03] <ali1234> lol
[21:03] <ali1234> they had a poll on OMG ubuntu to decide what the default would be
[21:03] <diplo> I had mine from beta, so wonder whether a config issue
[21:03] <diplo> yeah saw that
[21:03] <ali1234> and "only on one monitor" won
[21:04] <ali1234> yes it's a config issue
[21:04] <ali1234> compiz config is a huge mess of stuff that gets turned on and off all the time because it is suspected of triggering some bug in some other plugin
[21:04] <ali1234> at least during dev cycle it does
[21:04] <ali1234> and they reset it totally from time to time as well
[21:05] <diplo> Keep on meaning to try lxde/xfce again as lot's of people say to
[21:06] <ali1234> don't listen to those people. gnome-fallback is better
[21:06] <diplo> As I say I am running that already
[21:06] <ali1234> i've tried every desktop there is over the past year and they all suck
[21:06] <diplo> Waiting for oimon to try them all :)
[21:06] <ali1234> xfce is like using ubuntu from 2006
[21:07] <ali1234> lxde is like using kde from 2002
[21:07] <diplo> :D
[21:08] <ali1234> of course using kde 4 is like using windows 3.1 except everything is shiny transparent gradients
[21:09] <ali1234> did i mention that i love the windows 8 metro flat panel look and hope that kde copies it as faithfully as they copied the incredibly ugly aero?
[21:09] <mcphail> Bah. The only desktop you need is "screen"
[21:10] <ali1234> i agree. unfortunately ubuntu decided tmux is better (spoiler: it isn't)
[21:10] <ali1234> i can see how they arrived at that viewpoint though
[21:10] <mcphail> haven't tried tmux. What does it offer?
[21:11] <diplo> I really don't like Win 8 Metro, will defo use something else
[21:11] <ali1234> it offers the ability to split terminal windows
[21:11] <mgdm> which screen can do?
[21:11] <ali1234> screen can do it but it can't remember it
[21:11] <mgdm> admittedly the key combo to do it looks like line noise
[21:12] <mcphail> oh well. competition is good
[21:12] <ali1234> now if you're like me you're probably thinking "but i can just open two gnome terminals and put them side by side, and then i can even select the temrinal i want with the mouse instead of an obscure string of keyboard shortcuts"
[21:12] <popey> choo choo!
[21:12] <ali1234> but if you're like me you're not using unity either, which makes dealing with multiple gnome terminals all but impossible
[21:12]  * diplo uses terminator and seperate screens in each :/
[21:13] <mgdm> I'd like to see terminator get the same integration with tmux that iTerm2 on the Mac has
[21:13] <mcphail> i've never cared for split windows
[21:13] <popey> 1. join irc
[21:13] <mgdm> iTerm2 is brill
[21:13] <mgdm> terminator is only very slightly less brill
[21:13] <popey> 2. see unity moaning
[21:13] <popey> \o/
[21:13] <ali1234> lolz
[21:14] <BigRedS> haha, well if you will join a channel with ali1234 in it :)
[21:14] <mgdm> arf
[21:14] <mgdm> actually now that I've discovered the keyboard shortcuts for splitting windows, iTerm2 is back down to second place \o/
[21:15] <pr0ph3t> I want games on linux, now
[21:16] <pr0ph3t> steam, skyrim and all the rest of them
[21:16] <pr0ph3t> native
[21:16] <ali1234> skyrim is dumb
[21:16] <ali1234> why did they record that same line of dialogue in 100 different voices?
[21:16] <pr0ph3t> ehehe
[21:17] <ali1234> or do they just record once and then process it?
[21:17] <mcphail> "i used to play games on ubuntu like you...
[21:17] <Azelphur> but then I took an arrow to the knee"
[21:17]  * Azelphur runs
[21:17] <pr0ph3t> then you took a windows in the knee?
[21:17] <Azelphur> xD
[21:18]  * mcphail hates himself for writing that
[21:18] <pr0ph3t> well one can only hope
[21:18] <pr0ph3t> at least I can only hope as I wouldn't know where to start to port games to linux etc
[21:18] <mcphail> pr0ph3t: just let wesnoth take over your life
[21:19] <pr0ph3t> I play linux native games as well
[21:19] <ali1234> you should have bought humble indie bundle 5 last week
[21:19] <Azelphur> Gabe Newell says Steam for Linux before the end of the year, if anyone didn't hear that already btw
[21:19] <ali1234> yeah but what about the games?
[21:20] <Azelphur> L4D most likely will be the first
[21:20] <ali1234> if it only has L4D2 in it i don't care
[21:20] <mcphail> the only humble bundle game i've really enjoyed is VVVVV
[21:20] <ali1234> that game sucks
[21:20] <Azelphur> tbh the most important thing is the platform - once we have the platform people will start porting
[21:20] <pr0ph3t> well Unity3D is also working for linux native games
[21:22]  * dwatkins wonders if this will make NVidia less likely to incurr Linus' wrath
[21:23] <ali1234> no, because nvidia is the only way to make games work properly anyway
[21:23] <pr0ph3t> http://unity3d.com/unity/
[21:23] <mcphail> I think the nVidia rant was just an extension of the previous rant about ARM support in the kernel
[21:24] <pr0ph3t> you need an engine like that
[21:24] <Azelphur> ali1234: there was a guy on #winehq running L4D2 with noveau yesterday
[21:24] <ali1234> we already have an engine like that
[21:24] <dwatkins> ah i see, mcphail
[21:24] <ali1234> a couple in fact
[21:24] <ali1234> Azelphur: hilarious
[21:24] <ali1234> i can't even run a 2D desktop with nouveau
[21:24] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, the more the merrier
[21:24] <Azelphur> :)
[21:24] <Azelphur> clearly he could :P
[21:25] <Azelphur> I got some stuff running on the open AMD driver too, although not properly
[21:26] <pr0ph3t> it's just that like many other people, games are the only reason why I run Windows
[21:26] <ali1234> the only reason why i run windows is: adobe creative suite
[21:27] <pr0ph3t> adobe is not a great linux fan though is it
[21:27] <mcphail> the only reason i run windows is: internet explorer 6. (unfortunately true...)
[21:28] <ali1234> you can run that in wine
[21:28] <dwatkins> or a virtual machine
[21:28] <mcphail> pr0ph3t: adobe are open source friendly - just not free software friendly
[21:28] <ali1234> in fact there is a tool for specifically for web developers for multiplexing all IE versions in wine
[21:28] <mgdm> ies4linux
[21:28] <mgdm> IIRC
[21:28] <mcphail> ali1234: ie6 under wine can't run the apps i need at work
[21:29] <ali1234> fiar enough
[21:42] <AlanBell> right, time to reboot into quantal
[21:46] <AlanBell> back \o/
[21:46] <AlanBell> and in unity again
[21:46] <AlanBell> thing seem squarer
[22:56] <ali1234> hmm if i dlopen xlib and call a function that returns a pointer that must be freed with XFree, can i just free it with free() instead, so that i don't have to dlload XFree as well?
[22:57] <bigcalm> Is it possible to find out the health of a RAID 1?
[23:19] <Azelphur> random question, why do people buy NAS's instead of a small PC with lots of drive slots
[23:19] <Azelphur> isn't the PC cheaper?
[23:28] <ali1234> because PCs are LOOOOUUUUUUUD
[23:28] <hamitron> can get a NAS for £50?
[23:28] <ali1234> and because NAS unit is incredibly easy to set up. you plug it in and turn it on
[23:28] <ali1234> not with drives
[23:29] <hamitron> no, not with drives
[23:29] <hamitron> :)
[23:29] <ali1234> but then you can't get the drives alone for £50 either
[23:29] <hamitron> well, I like my Netgear ReadyNAS
[23:29] <hamitron> so small and just work
[23:29] <hamitron> s
[23:29] <ali1234> yes you can get an empty one for about £50
[23:29] <ali1234> seriously NAS unit is too easy
[23:30] <ali1234> most of them basically are PCs anyway
[23:30] <ali1234> good one will have micro atx power supply you can replace etc
[23:30] <hamitron> I do have 1 complaint with my NAS
[23:31] <hamitron> it is simple and works, and I just want to modify it.... but feel like I shouldn't :/
[23:31] <hamitron> frustrating! ;)
[23:32] <ali1234> why play around with modifying things that already work perfectly well, when there is so much broken things you could work on instead?
[23:32] <hamitron> indeed
[23:32] <hamitron> I know that is the logical thing
[23:32] <hamitron> just feels wrong somehow
[23:34] <hamitron> feel the same about my wrt54gl too
[23:35] <ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/fullscreenhack/blob/master/fullscreenhack.c
[23:35] <ali1234> i am working on this today
[23:35] <ali1234> i think i can fix the screen selection problem. maybe even force it
[23:35] <ali1234> some comments on my blog gave me some ideas
[23:36] <ali1234> out of everything i have ever coded, this one gets more comments and emails than any of them
[23:39] <ali1234> i want to add a fix for the smurf bug too but i don't know how. vdpau is C++ and i can't figure out how to override funtions in a C++ library
[23:39] <ali1234> it should be possible though
[23:40] <hamitron> I never got into C++
[23:42] <ali1234> C++ could be considered an amusing abuse of C pointers...
[23:42] <ali1234> C++ classes are really C structs stuffed with function pointers, and the compiler just hides it all from you
[23:43] <ali1234> unfortunately it doesn't hde it very well. i prefer Qt's MOC
[23:45] <hamitron> I think it was because I did some work that only had a C compiler, and was just too lazy to learn new stuff, when stuff I already used worked
[23:45] <hamitron> no real reasoning for me
[23:45] <hamitron> :)
[23:47] <hamitron> anyways
[23:47] <hamitron> better sleeps
[23:47] <hamitron> o/