[06:24] <ali1234> i managed to make a X.509 certificate and enroll it as PK
[06:25] <ali1234> then i made a sub-certificate and signed it, then used it to make a software publisher certificate
[06:25] <ali1234> then i signed HelloWorldSigned.efi with the spc and my sub-certificate private key
[06:25] <ali1234> and............. it doesn't work
[06:32] <ali1234> enrolling both the PK and the Kek manually doesn't work either
[06:39] <AlanBell> thats a shame ali1234
[06:39] <AlanBell> is it a bug in the tiano stuff?
[06:40] <ali1234> i don't know
[06:40] <ali1234> i suspect it's because i signed with sha1 hash instead of sha256 but the linux tools only support sha1 or md5
[06:40] <ali1234> so i have no idea how i'm supposed to sign with sha256
[06:41] <ali1234> googling suggests EFI is supposed to support sha1 though
[06:41] <ali1234> so i don't know
[06:43] <AlanBell> openssl should support sha256
[06:43] <ali1234> yes but signcode is some mono thing
[06:44] <ali1234> maybe it does support sha256 and they just didn't mention it in the man page
[06:45] <ali1234> [ERROR] FATAL UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: System.ArgumentException: Invalid Authenticode hash algorithm
[06:45] <ali1234> that would be a no then
[06:46] <MooDoo> morning all
[06:46] <AlanBell> so if it is a mono thing, why is it a different tool on linux to windows?
[06:47] <ali1234> good question
[06:47] <ali1234> makecert is identical
[06:47] <ali1234> there is no SignTool.exe for linux afaict
[06:47] <ali1234> i suspect that signcode is out of date, replaced by signtool, but makecert was never updated
[06:47] <AlanBell> ah right, signcode is deprecated, signtool is the new hotness
[06:48] <ali1234> signcode uses these spc files
[06:48] <AlanBell> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/8s9b9yaz%28VS.80%29.aspx doesn't mention sha256
[06:49] <ali1234> and signtool uses the other thing ...
[06:49] <ali1234> PFX
[06:49] <ali1234> but i bet they do a similar thing
[06:49] <ali1234> SPC at least allows you to specify multiple certificates, so i think that is the key for getting multiple trust chains to work
[06:50] <ali1234> so i need pvk2pfx.exe and SignTool.exe
[06:50] <ali1234> AlanBell: that's a broken link
[06:54] <ali1234> AlanBell: my notes so far: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UEFI
[06:56] <AlanBell> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/770711/whats-the-main-difference-between-signcode-exe-and-signtool-exe
[06:56] <ali1234> yeah
[06:56] <ali1234> i already knew that :)
[06:56] <ali1234> .spc can contain multiple certificates though
[06:59] <DJones> Grr, stupid Natwest online banking
[06:59] <ali1234> maybe they had certificate problems :(
[07:03] <Seeker`> hey
[07:15] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: If you're having cert problems I feel bad for you son. I have 99 problems but a key ain't one :P
[07:15]  * Seeker` groans
[07:16] <MartijnVdS> Seeker`: is it Friday yet? :)
[07:16] <Seeker`> YES!
[07:16] <MartijnVdS> then it's allowed :P
[07:16] <Seeker`> not going to work today though
[07:16] <MartijnVdS> I wonder how many more holes my upstairs neighbor can drill before his appartment crashes down on him
[07:16] <Seeker`> 6
[07:16] <MartijnVdS> Seeker`: I sincerely hope so
[07:17] <MartijnVdS> He's been drilling holes almost 24/7 for years now
[07:17] <DJones> If anybody here works for NatWest, please hurry up and fix your banking systems
[07:17] <Seeker`> heh
[07:17] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: gotta get down on friiiidaaaaaay, everybody's looking forward to the weekend weekend
[07:18] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: *\\o o//*
[07:50] <dwatkins> ali1234: I read a conspiracy theory recently that that particular song is about the late US president JFK.
[07:50] <ali1234> have you ever actually heard it?
[07:50] <ali1234> it's not about anything
[07:51] <ali1234> it's not even about friday
[07:51] <dwatkins> ali1234: yeah, it's just a frivolous song about the weekend, I imagine
[07:51] <dwatkins> I suspect the lyrics are about as deep as what remains of my coffee
[08:11] <nperry> morn all o/
[08:12] <christel> morning
[08:12] <dwatkins> hiya
[08:12] <popey> morning
[08:12] <AlanBell> morning
[08:15] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:20] <bigcalm> Gooooooood mornings :)
[08:22] <bigcalm> Morning mrevell
[08:22] <mrevell> Hi bigcalm
[08:23] <bigcalm> mrevell: have you installed the stable release of CM 7.2 on your phone?
[08:23] <mrevell> bigcalm, I'm not sure what version I had on the Desire. It wasn't particularly stable, though. Gave up and bought an iPhone instead :)
[08:23] <bigcalm> Haha
[08:23] <popey> \o/ iPhone club!
[08:23] <mrevell> :)
[08:24]  * bigcalm shakes his head
[08:24] <bigcalm> It's 4 bins popey!
[08:24] <mrevell> Haven't looked back
[08:24] <popey> yup
[08:24] <gord> fed up of my android phone but don't want an iphone, fear i may have to get a windows phone :(
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> what's bad about android?
[08:25] <mrevell> Crumbs, isn't that a bit "bite off your nose to spite your face" gord? :)
[08:25] <AlanBell> gord: they are asking for people to test ubuntu for android
[08:25] <bigcalm> "Out For Delivery" I wonder what that could mean ;)
[08:26] <gord> android just has a whole bunch of small things that bug me and i've found that i don't care if there is a large amount of apps available because i barely use any anyway
[08:26] <bigcalm> gord: maybe those small things would be fixed if you tried CyanogenMod 7.2 on it
[08:26] <popey> AlanBell, we are?
[08:27] <popey> I completely agree with gord
[08:27] <bigcalm> popey: again, AlanBell knows more than Canonical employees ;)
[08:27] <popey> guy next to me here has a galaxy nexus
[08:27] <nperry> bigcalm, Samsung Galaxy S 3?
[08:27] <bigcalm> nperry: oooo, maybe :D
[08:27] <popey> the video playback app is awful
[08:28] <ali1234> but the android youtube app is flawless
[08:28] <AlanBell> popey: http://webmink.com/2012/06/20/help-test-ubuntu-for-android/
[08:28] <nperry> bigcalm, enjoy it - my girlfriend has one.. I've gave up trying to convince her my samsung galaxy s 2 is better and she can have my s2 while I have her s3..
[08:28] <gord> i do enjoy that from android opening a youtube link i can choose to open in xbmc and it shows up on my tv :)
[08:28] <bigcalm> nperry: haha
[08:29] <popey> ooh, hadn't seen that
[08:29] <bigcalm> nperry: what makes the s2 better than the s3? (apart from looks)
[08:30] <AlanBell> bigcalm: it is slightly cheaper and has the words "don't panic" written on it in big friendly letters
[08:30] <nperry> The screen is so much better outside.
[08:31] <nperry> The S2 I struggle to see a lot when its sunny. Thank god I live in England though.
[08:31] <bigcalm> AlanBell: bwuhahaha
[08:31] <mrevell> A quite practical consideration put me off the S3 and many of the other hot Android phones. It probably hasn't escaped the attention of those who've met me that I am not a large bloke. I want a phone that fits in one hand comfortably.
[08:31] <bigcalm> nperry: yeah, don't really see that being a problem in the UK ;)
[08:32] <nperry> mrevell, get some steroids injected into your hand..
[08:32] <bigcalm> mrevell: having a big heart makes up for your diminutive stature
[08:32] <mrevell> One freakishly muscular hand might actually make that harder.
[08:33] <mrevell> bigcalm, Who said I had a big heart? :)
[08:33] <Daviey> Would be a good experiment.
[08:35] <nperry> Google Plus has just told me it is no panty day...
[08:36] <nperry> I'll brb.
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[08:36] <diplo> Morning all
[08:37] <nperry> popey, Doesn't everyone have four bins :S
[08:37] <popey> seems not
[08:37] <nperry> Ah, Wiltshire has had four for the last year or so.
[08:37] <MartijnVdS> nperry: what? no panty days?
[08:38] <nperry> MartijnVdS, seems that way.
[08:38] <MartijnVdS> nperry: what does this tell us about Wiltshire?
[08:38] <nperry> They are infront of the times.
[08:38] <nperry> Wiltshire lead the way.
[08:40] <diplo> nperry: Running out of room like me
[08:40] <diplo> :(
[08:40] <diplo> Some of my neighbours have 5+ bins
[08:40] <diplo> I have same amount of children and get by with 1 grey bin, some have 2 to 2 1/2
[08:41] <nperry> We have five bins, one normal, one garden, one plastic & cardboard, one paper box and one glass box.
[08:41] <ali1234> i have SIX bins
[08:41] <bigcalm> Damn, I was hoping not to have to ask this year - Emergency help required - What do I get my sister for her 35th birthday?
[08:41] <diplo> nperry: Glass box?
[08:42] <diplo> Our paper/glass go in the same one
[08:42] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: a cake.
[08:42] <nperry> They started off wanting paper/glass in seperate boxes then stopped that.. So we have two black boxes
[08:42] <diplo> All depends what she is into, my sister rides / owns horses and pretty much always get her a gift to do with that
[08:43] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: she lives 150 miles away
[08:43] <nperry> Council said they'd pick them up.
[08:43] <nperry> bigcalm, a card then.
[08:43] <diplo> Oh, I'm in Trowbridge.. still collect both in one here
[08:43] <bigcalm> nperry: well, a card will happen anyway
[08:43] <nperry> diplo, I local person o/
[08:43] <bigcalm> Annoyingly she doesn't have an amazon wishlist
[08:43] <nperry> *hi
[08:44] <nperry> bigcalm, amazon giftcard then :D
[08:44] <diplo> Let me guess, Swindon area?
[08:44] <nperry> diplo, No Warminster
[08:44] <diplo> That's what my brother always goes for, and ah right... bloody close then :)
[08:44] <bigcalm> nperry: trying to avoid vouchers
[08:46] <bigcalm> Her birthday is on the 27th June, but we'll be visiting her after the RAT on 15th July. Could I get away with a late gift
[08:46] <diplo> yeah bigcalm
[08:46] <nperry> If its big, yes.
[08:46] <diplo> My family are months late on giving gifts, doesn't matter at this age really does it
[08:47] <diplo> I didn't get anything this year from my brother/sister
[08:47] <bigcalm> Ug. Why can't Farnham be a little closer to Salisbury?
[08:48] <diplo> heh
[08:49]  * AlanBell things Farnham is in the right place and Salisbury should come closer
[08:50] <bigcalm> Hotel booked for 2 nights in Farnham (RAT related). Visiting sister in Salisbury on the Sunday afternoon and then back to the hotel
[08:50] <bigcalm> Ah well, I grumble too much ;)
[08:51] <AlanBell> RAT ticket is an ideal 35th birthday present :)
[08:51] <bigcalm> Haha
[08:51] <AlanBell> problem solved
[08:51] <Daviey> hmm, i am yet to purchase RAT ticket
[08:52] <bigcalm> As far as I can tell, neither her or her boyfriend are into ale
[08:52] <bigcalm> Daviey: cutting it a bit fine...
[08:52] <AlanBell> Daviey: erk, they are now sold out to September
[08:52] <Daviey> bigcalm: with the 6X brewery piratically on their doorstep, i am most disappointed
[08:53] <Daviey> AlanBell: bugger.
[08:53] <popey> \o/ I have a ticket
[08:53] <Daviey> popey: super, do you want to give it to me on the day, post it, or meet up sooner?
[08:54] <popey> :D
[08:55] <Daviey> Unrelated, i'm liking these http headers .. X-Country: GB , X-Population: 1
[08:56] <bigcalm> popey: not coming to the RAT?
 \o/ I have a ticket
[08:56] <mgdm> Daviey!
[08:56] <bigcalm> popey: good :D
[08:56] <Daviey> mgdm: !
[08:56] <mgdm> Daviey: ltns :)
[08:57] <Daviey> mgdm: thankfully :)
[08:57] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1603/detail/ you can add a comment to say you are going
[08:57] <Daviey> AlanBell: care to arrnage me a ticket, kkthnx :)
[08:57] <AlanBell> and those who failed to take my advice to book tickets well in advance can still come to the BBQ http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/
[08:57] <AlanBell> no tickets required :)
[08:58] <Daviey> 3 Alan's are going?!
[08:58] <AlanBell> yep
[08:58] <Daviey> 3 popey's!
[08:58] <Daviey> golly
[08:59] <AlanBell> is christel coming on the RAT?
[08:59] <bigcalm> AlanBell: I believe so, yes
[08:59] <mgdm> Daviey: :P
[09:00] <bigcalm> AlanBell: and Byrn_S
[09:00] <popey> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1603/detail/  \o/ comment left
[09:00] <AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/compiz/fix930783/+merge/110791 approved \o/
[09:01] <dwatkins> popey: for a moment there I thought you'd insitaged a Linux-based games console project ;)
[09:01] <dwatkins> are you going to Didcot, popey?
[09:01] <popey> no
[09:01] <dwatkins> we used to go to the steam museum there when I was little
[09:02] <diplo> popey: Breakage!
[09:02] <christel> AlanBell: I AM!
[09:02] <AlanBell> yay
[09:02] <selinuxium> Hi all, I appear to be having some issues with U1... Anyone know how to clear a PC and start again?
[09:02] <christel> i must find my tickets
[09:02] <diplo> I would just really like to reiterate how poor IE is :(
[09:02] <bigcalm> christel: yippiee :)
[09:02] <christel> because i dont think i have Unpacked them since moving
[09:02] <popey> selinuxium, #ubuntuone
[09:02] <gord> i think i'm going to start calling my steam games list the "steam museum", if only to validate the redonkulous number of games on it...
[09:02] <selinuxium> cheer popey
[09:02] <christel> i have so many boxes still to unpack :(
[09:03] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, people! :-D
[09:03] <bigcalm> JamesTait: it will be when I take delivery in about an hour :D
[09:04] <JamesTait> bigcalm: Dare I ask what?
[09:05] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:05] <JamesTait> bigcalm: Is it fruit-themed and pastry-based?
[09:05] <diplo> christel: I've been in my current house 5 years in July, last month I got rid of the last box from moving 5 years ago \o/
[09:06] <bigcalm> JamesTait: actually, an apple pie would trump what I'm expecting
[09:06] <christel> haha
[09:06] <nperry> diplo, I moved into this house about 1 month and a week ago today... On the saturday the last box was out of the house.
[09:06]  * bigcalm ponders going to the bakery later
[09:06] <christel> how on earth do you manage to unpack in just a month!
[09:06] <christel> that is IMPOSSIBLE
[09:07] <bigcalm> I agree with christel
[09:07] <diplo> I did have a new born when I moved in and the wife was preggers again
[09:07] <bigcalm> Which craft!
[09:07] <diplo> So I just chucked 50% up in the loft
[09:07] <diplo> :)
[09:07] <bigcalm> Witchcraft!
[09:07] <diplo> I took the brave step of emptying my loft last month
[09:07] <diplo> 3 days!!!!!
[09:07] <christel> haha
[09:07] <diplo> I do not recommend it
[09:07] <bigcalm> Hehe
[09:07] <diplo> 4 car loads of stuff dumped, I don't have a small car either
[09:07] <christel> oh good point.. i do have a number of boxes that can go straight up in the loft actually
[09:07] <diplo> Zafira, front to back top to bottom
[09:08] <christel> (mainly christmas decorations)
[09:08] <diplo> If it goes in the loft get rid of it :)
[09:08] <christel> i probably do not need to leave them in the dining room
[09:08] <christel> tho.. it is nearly christmas..
[09:08] <diplo> My new mantra, apart from Xmas decs
[09:08] <christel> isnt it?
[09:08] <diplo> sssh!
[09:08] <diplo> :)
[09:08] <diplo> My kids may hear
[09:08] <christel> hehe
[09:09] <bigcalm> Xmas decorations and camping equipment live in our loft
[09:09] <diplo> oh yeah and camping stuff ( forgot that )
[09:09] <christel> i have several lofts
[09:09] <diplo> I've dumped pretty much every thing else
[09:09] <christel> this house is so weird
[09:10] <christel> the kitchen is an extension, which has a loft (which is handy)
[09:10] <christel> and then upstairs in the older part of the house there's also a loft
[09:10] <christel> and i have this enormous (awning? is that the word?) space just off the main bedroom
[09:10] <christel> in the slopey thingie bit of the roof
[09:11] <christel> which is probably bad for a hoarder like me as i will just fill them all rather than ever chuck anything away
[09:11] <bigcalm> :D
[09:21] <davmor2> morning all
[09:21] <diplo> It's awful outside :(
[09:21] <diplo> Morning
[09:23] <davmor2> MooDoo: me awld mucka, 'Ow am ya
[09:25] <bigcalm> Hi davmor2
[09:26] <davmor2> morning bigcalm how's sunny sunny TF10?
[09:27] <bigcalm> davmor2: overcast, bit windy. Expecting rain :)
[09:27] <bigcalm> davmor2: perfect summer weather
[09:28] <nperry> christel, We managed to do it becuase we threw away a lot before we moved.
[09:28] <davmor2> bigcalm: I blame this http://ubuntuone.com/6gt0itZ5myMlzyHSZvQPwD
[09:28] <nperry> "Temporary maintenance"
[09:28] <bigcalm> davmor2: Temporary maintenance?
[09:28] <nperry> I DO BLAME THAT TEMPORARY MAINTENANCE!!!
[09:29] <bigcalm> I blame aquarius
[09:29] <davmor2> bigcalm: D'oh it's hardware upgrade day
[09:29] <davmor2> bigcalm: remind me to show it you latter
[09:29]  * Laney scowls at natwest
[09:30] <davmor2> natwest closes Laney's account and keeps all his money as punishment for scowling
[09:30] <ali1234> should've gone to barclays
[09:30] <Laney> brown envelope under the mattress
[09:32] <dwatkins> I've not considered switching to Natwest, they used to charge students for going a penny over their overdraft limit, just to send them a letter to inform them.
[09:33] <BigRedS> Charge customers for goign over their overdraft limit? How rude!
[09:33] <BigRedS> :)
[09:33] <Daviey> dwatkins: hen i was a student, they sent me a default notice for being in my agreed overdraft limit... that is rude :)
[09:34] <nperry> I think Halifax's charges are bad...
[09:34] <dwatkins> yeah, I can understand them charging and so on, but if it's by a single penny, that's a bit petty - HSBC have a 50 quid buffer-zone
[09:34] <nperry> £1 for being in agreeed and £5 for being outside of agreed... per day!
[09:35] <dwatkins> also, it's 25 quid to just tell you you've gone overdrawn, which makes the problem much worse if you were only over by a little bit
[09:35] <dwatkins> well, this was the case in 1995, at least.
[09:37] <mattt> that's why they want ot bring back banking fees
[09:37] <mattt> so they don't have to rip you off w/ those other charges
[09:37] <mattt> personally, i'd rather let them keep ripping people off and not pay banking charges :P
[09:37] <mattt> (fees rather)
[09:38] <nperry> I just make sure I always have enough money in the bank
[09:38] <nperry> With a buffer
[09:42] <MooDoo> did someone want me?
[09:49] <hoover_> hi folks
[09:51] <dogmatic69> o/
[09:55] <ali1234> ok, i FINALLY have the windows 7 SDK installed so i can sign PE objects with signtool
[09:56] <ali1234> remember when they said you'd be able to self-sign things to use secure boot?
[09:56] <ali1234> turns out that doing so requires a copy of windows
[09:58] <davmor2> ali1234: No shock horror, Microsoft make it so you need one of their products to sign one of their products with their product key who'd of thunk it
[09:58] <ali1234> no, you need a microsoft operating system to sign anything with any key
[09:59] <ali1234> so for example, suppose you want to use secure boot on your redhat server
[09:59] <davmor2> ali1234: yes that would be their range of products and all the keys belong to microsoft that was kinda my point
[09:59] <ali1234> and for some reason you need a custom kernel module
[10:00] <ali1234> well, now you need a copy of windows to do that
[10:02] <directhex> for now
[10:02] <directhex> the signing format is known. there's no reason a free signing tool can't be written
[10:03] <ali1234> yes, the specification is known
[10:03] <ali1234> but allegedly the implementation does not match the specification
[10:04] <davmor2> ali1234: oh shock horror, microsoft fail to stick to their own spec
[10:12] <ali1234> ok, got a pfx file now
[10:29] <ali1234> oh great, signtool doesn't even work
[10:30] <ali1234> "Either the file being signed or one of the DLL specified by the /j switch is not a valid Win32 application."
[10:38] <andylockran> hey guys, just found a site that's been compromised, with this JS at the bottom of the page: http://pastebin.com/dt1QYfJs
[10:38] <andylockran> any clues?
[10:39] <ali1234> clues?
[10:39] <andylockran> westcountry.ru
[10:39] <dogmatic69> andylockran: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/586610874
[10:43] <andylockran> thanks
[10:46] <ali1234> https://github.com/vathpela/pesign/ hmm
[10:46] <ali1234> looks like there is a linux tool, although it's still under development
[10:51] <nperry> Hmm dogmatic69, you have now made me want to make a PHP turn based name using cakephp... :(
[10:53] <dogmatic69> nperry: how so?
[10:53] <nperry> Just seeing the cakephp... I was going to attempt to hack one up about six months ago.
[10:56] <bigcalm> Why with cakephp?
[10:57] <nperry> Lazy writing.
[11:03] <dogmatic69> cakephp is awesome
[11:03] <bigcalm> So are other PHP frameworks ;)
[11:04]  * MartijnVdS cries about PHP being called awesome
[11:05]  * MartijnVdS hands out free copies of python
[11:05] <davmor2> bigcalm: sorry php and awesome in the same sentence did you just bang your head?  I've heard you cussing it to hell and back don't forget :D
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: alcohol is a hell of a drug
[11:08]  * bigcalm shakes his head
[11:08] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I agree, thus going to the pub with Hayley tonight :D
[11:11] <nperry> bigcalm, would you recommend something else then?
[11:11] <MartijnVdS> nperry: for what?
[11:11] <bigcalm> nperry: no recommendations, just wondered why cakephp instead of other frame works
[11:11] <bigcalm> nperry: I use Symfony 1.4 a lot
[11:12] <nperry> I have only ever used Cake once, only instance of using a php framework.
[11:12] <Daviey> it's good, but it's not quite django.. amirite?
[11:13] <diplo> We use CodeIgniter
[11:13] <diplo> heh, been meaning to try Django after a few people here mentioned it
[11:13] <andylockran> I'm looking at syfony
[11:16] <nperry> Daviey, django would some fun...
[11:18] <Daviey> justifying any other legacy framework is indefensible </bigot>
[11:19] <gord> django had suuuch a nice database model, i loved it. its been years since i used it though
[11:19] <nperry> Humm... This is torture. http://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/news/missing-glastonbury-watch-the-guardians-live-stream
[11:19] <MartijnVdS> haha :)
[11:20] <Daviey> gord: database schema migrations really make me cry with joy.
[11:21] <diplo> I didn't know it was used on pinterest etc
[11:28] <ali1234> looks like i'm going to have to download windows 8 preview, then use that to download windows 8 sdk preview - probably to get the exact same result
[11:28] <ali1234> i'll also have to download visual studio 12 RC
[11:29] <diplo> What I don't understand is where all these companies make money
[11:29] <ali1234> what, pinterest?
[11:30] <ali1234> it's simple: they don't
[11:30] <diplo> That's my thoughts :)
[11:30] <diplo> Costing them about  $35 an hour to power it
[11:31] <nperry> I'm really feeling a chip lunch..
[11:33] <diplo> ah, so they do have a plan of make money... see if it works
[11:34] <nperry> They do?
[11:35] <AlanBell> get lots of users, approach venture capital funding source, point to lots of users and business plan that shows profit prediction for about a year after the founders cash out
[11:36] <diplo> heh that awsmy thought AlanBell
[11:36] <diplo> But it seems that companies are making use of pinterest already for there products
[11:37] <diplo> And it seems that companys doing it direct will maybe be charged
[11:37] <diplo> Selling user data as well
[11:37] <diplo> Affiliate links etc
[11:38] <BigRedS> yeah, user data is pretty valuable
[11:38] <BigRedS> especially if you can do it well
[11:38] <BigRedS> also, even if you don't sell it you can sell incredibly well-targeted ad space
[11:39] <lazarus_> http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/lazman121212
[11:39] <diplo> :D
[11:39] <AlanBell> irc spam :(
[11:40] <AlanBell> lazarus_: don't do that
[11:40] <lazarus_> aww i sowwie
[11:40] <mattt> and while you're at it, stop saying sowwie
[11:40]  * mattt hides
[11:40] <MartijnVdS> soiree?
[11:40] <lazarus_> nowwie
[11:41] <DJones> nicekiwi: I would give the adding the /whois lazarus_
[11:42] <lazarus_> am i in trouble
[11:42] <DJones> I doubt it :)
[11:50] <MartijnVdS> https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=60758
[11:50] <BigRedS> Oh! That's grown!
[11:50] <BigRedS> Wait, no, different bug :)
[11:51] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: reddit.com/r/lolphp
[11:52] <bigcalm> ?
[11:52] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS:
[11:52] <bigcalm> I don't read reddit
[11:52] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: wrong big<tab> :)
[11:52] <BigRedS> haha
[11:52] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, I spent about a day in there a little while ago
[11:52] <bigcalm> Strikes again!
[11:53] <BigRedS> so I declined to subscribe :)
[11:53] <BigRedS> I guess you've seen https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=50696 ?
[11:53] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: bug 1016430 is a go for me
[11:54] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: yeah. :|
[11:54] <dogmatic69> mousing over the unity bar clears it up though
[11:54] <AlanBell> dogmatic69: why me?
[11:55] <dogmatic69> wrong one :/
[11:56] <dogmatic69> too many Alans :)
[12:06] <ali1234> i keep testing 987485 and forgetting to clear print jobs and so now my printer just starts printing at random times every couple of days
[12:06] <MartijnVdS> It's ALIVE
[12:08] <ali1234> it works perfectly as long as you don't mind waiting 36 hours between jobs
[12:08] <ali1234> +/- 12 hours
[12:09] <dogmatic69> lol
[12:09] <dogmatic69> ali1234: you just need to schedule your life around that
[12:10] <ali1234> meh. it's not like i ever print anything
[12:10] <ali1234> except that i've printed about 100 pages of tests while testing various non-working fixes
[12:11] <oimon> anyone know any good vmware irc channels?
[12:11] <oimon> specifically for vsphere?
[12:11] <MartijnVdS> they're all virtual
[12:11] <ali1234> that's probably more than this printer has seen in it's 15+ year life
[12:11] <oimon> ali1234, sounds like you have the same printer as me
[12:11] <oimon> laserjet?
[12:11] <ali1234> yes
[12:11] <oimon> think mine's a 4M or 4plus
[12:12] <ali1234> this is a 4L
[12:12] <oimon> i have 2 spare toner still
[12:12] <bigcalm> I freecycled my 4M to a very grateful student
[12:12] <ali1234> but this bug seems to be to do with the specific USB to parallel adapter i'm using
[12:13] <oimon> i drove to portsmouth a few yrs ago to pick up 2 from an ebuyer who was mystified that i would be excited to get them
[12:13] <ali1234> you can still buy new ones for the 4L
[12:13] <ali1234> and they have a shelf life... the light sensitive roller thingy goes bad
[12:14] <oimon> :-\
[12:14] <ali1234> then you get print outs that have vertical black streaks all down the page
[12:14] <oimon> a common issue..
[12:14] <oimon> with all this rain, i'm stocking up on paint and new brushes for a airfix-a-thon while on holiday
[12:15] <oimon> don't think i'll be going out much
[12:15] <ali1234> yeah... the reason these laserjet 4L are still going is cos the cartridge has everything that can wear out in one thing that costs only £15
[12:16] <oimon> when hp made good printers
[12:16] <oimon> got some awful ones at work lately
[12:26] <dwatkins> I wish I hadn't thrown away my laserjet 4M.
[12:26] <dwatkins> (well, I wish it hadn't failed etc.)
[12:27] <bigcalm> When my 4M failed, I repaired it :D
[12:28] <oimon> the rubber on the rollers tends to perish but they can be replaced
[12:28] <oimon> ubuntu thinks it's a PS printer when it's a PCL one
[12:29] <oimon> i thought my printer had died for about 9 months until i realised what was happeining
[12:29] <bigcalm> oimon: that's what I had to replace. The paper would concertina otherwise
[12:35] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan-fold
[12:35] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: it's not a dotmatrix printer
[12:36] <bigcalm> I miss printing with one
[12:36] <bigcalm> A rather comforting sound
[12:36] <MartijnVdS> you can still buy them
[12:36] <MartijnVdS> also, USB to parallel port converters
[12:36] <bigcalm> I don't miss them enough to actually need one though :P
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> we had one of these: http://www.recycledgoods.com/product_images/e/436/s_p_8242_1__38726_zoom.jpg
[12:41] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: we had one of those too :D
[12:42] <oimon> me too
[12:42] <oimon> connected to my acorn
[12:43] <MartijnVdS> We had it connected to our 8MHz XT clone
[12:43] <MartijnVdS> from "G2 computer systems"
[12:43] <MartijnVdS> my dad still has the manuals :)
[12:43] <oimon> " SSD prices have dropped an average of 46% since early 2011." : slashdot
[12:44] <dwatkins> considering how much flash storage has increased in capacity and dropped in price, I expect that trend to continue, oimon
[12:44] <oimon> they break a lot though
[12:45] <oimon> a colleague was getting only 6 mo's use out of some in a server
[12:45] <directhex> some brands break more than others
[12:45] <dwatkins> Moore's law, hard at work
[12:45] <dwatkins> oimon: an SSD? I've heard you can utterly destroy one in 9 months, i.e. make its capacity zero
[12:46] <dwatkins> that's from constant reading and writing, as you would experience in a RAID array, but the test was done a couple years ago.
[12:46] <oimon> yeah, he's using them in a high i/o server
[12:59] <ali1234> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035445.html
[13:01] <oimon> what are MS trying to stop by having secure boot anyway?
[13:01] <oimon> i mean, what's the official reason?
[13:01] <awilkins> Rootkits
[13:01] <awilkins> Probably
[13:01] <ali1234> oimon: the malware attack where the windows kernel is replaced by a patched version which will load unsigned device drivers
[13:01] <oimon> rootkits run inside the OS tho
[13:01] <awilkins> I suspect the real reason is as ali1234 says, not loading unsigned drivers
[13:02] <awilkins> Which means "protected media path" gains more armour
[13:02] <ali1234> "Ubuntu will not require signed kernel images or kernel modules." - this completely defeats any security that secure boot provides
[13:02] <ali1234> all you need to do is make a windows bootloader that ignores signature and looks like a linux kernel
[13:02] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it will not _require_ them
[13:03] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: that could also mean "There is a switch to turn signature checking off hidden deep in the bowels of some config"
[13:03] <Daviey> slowly, slowly catchy monkey.
[13:03] <AlanBell> hello Daviey
[13:03] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: please read the whole post
[13:03] <Daviey> hullo AlanBell
[13:26] <ali1234> argh how do i even use windows 8?
[13:26] <nperry> You dont.
[13:27] <ali1234> no, you don't. i have to
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: you pick it up and throw it at a wall
[13:27] <nperry> sudo rm -rf /media/windows8
[13:27] <nperry> If you keep touching your screen it will soon become a touchscreen
[13:28] <nperry> As Microsoft thinks PC's are so last year.
[13:29] <Seeker`> eughfingerprints
[13:30] <directhex> ali1234, well, first you drag the lock screen away, to log in.
[13:30] <directhex> this may suck with a mouse
[13:30]  * dwatkins boots a virtual machine to see what all the fuss about Windows 8 is
[13:31] <ali1234> argh this is the stupidest OS ever
[13:31] <ali1234> how do i get explorer?!?!?!?
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> you don't
[13:31] <ali1234> how do i get command prompt?
[13:31]  * awilkins hasn't tried Win8 yet
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> you don't
[13:31] <awilkins> win-r ?
[13:31] <ali1234> how am i supposed to run signtool.exe without command prompt? this makes no sense
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> telnet into it?
[13:32] <ali1234> awilkins: you win the prize
[13:32] <dwatkins> lol telnet
[13:32] <awilkins> Don't think telnet has shipped with windows since 2000 or before
[13:32] <ali1234> easiest way to get windows 8 not to suck: press win+r on the metro home screen
[13:32] <diplo> awilkins: Still there, you just have to enable it in control panel
[13:32] <diplo> add/remove
[13:32] <s-fox> Hi, anyone here familiar with glade?
[13:33] <dogmatic69> s-fox: the air freshener?
[13:33] <awilkins> diplo, Ah, so you have to actually install it..
[13:33] <nperry> glade makes things smell nice.
[13:33] <s-fox> dogmatic69,  no, the user interface designer.  i am having an issue with a button ;)
[13:33] <diplo> yer, but still available
[13:33] <nperry> You have the plugin one..
[13:33]  * awilkins detests all forms of "air freshener"
[13:33] <dogmatic69> nperry: I find oust better
[13:33] <diplo> needed it for something a few months ago
[13:33] <awilkins> They might as well label them "air toxifier"
[13:34] <nperry> dogmatic69, fabreeze is good as well :D
[13:34] <dwatkins> telnet ships with Windows Server 2008, it's just not installed by default.
[13:34] <dogmatic69> awilkins: oust removes xyz smell, and does not actually have a smell its self
[13:34] <dwatkins> [the client, that is]
[13:34] <nperry> I still can't believe they changed the name of Jif.
[13:34] <awilkins> dogmatic69, Yes, they are not quite so bad
[13:36] <dwatkins> and then there's Snickers...
[13:36] <awilkins> Opal Fruits
[13:36] <awilkins> "Starburst"
[13:37] <awilkins> I mean, WTH. Let's change a fruity sweet name from something with "fruit" in it, to "Starburst".
[13:37] <dwatkins> the advert was awful, too
[13:38] <awilkins> Not a patch on "Opal Fruits! Made to make your mouth water!"
[13:38] <MartijnVdS> Have they renamed Walkers to Lay's yet? :)
[13:38] <dwatkins> indeed, such a good slogan it sticks in my head even now
[13:38] <dwatkins> I believe they're separate com[panies, I have a bag of Walkers' crisps here
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: the logos are identical
[13:39] <diplo> dwatkins: It was the same with Vista/Win7
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "Walkers is now owned by PepsiCo with the current logo as a derivative of the North American Lay's logo"
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> Lay's (known as Walkers in the UK and Ireland, Chipsy[1] in Egypt, Poca in Vietnam, [2] Tapuchips in Israel,[3] Sabritas In Mexico) is the brand name for a number of potato chip varieties as well as the name of the company that founded the chip brand in 1932. Lay's chips has been marketed as a division of Frito-Lay, a company owned by PepsiCo since 1965.
[13:39] <dwatkins> oh wow
[13:39] <awilkins> "Lay's" is a lame name even for the USA
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> It used to be "Smith's" in the Netherlands
[13:39] <diplo> http://www.occupymonsanto360.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/who-owns-what-infographic-food-companies.jpg
[13:40] <diplo> Quite interesting
[13:40] <dwatkins> I thought Lay's were busy putting very little food in crisp bags.
[13:40] <awilkins> "Hey, I got me some real nice Lay's in the car". *snurk snurk*
[13:40] <em> Frito Lays
[13:40]  * nperry gets in awilkins car.
[13:41] <awilkins> Hah, Quaker oats giving everyone the impression they are owned by Quakers and they're owned by Pepsi
[13:41] <awilkins> Whereas Cadbury WAS owned by Quakers and now it's owned by Kraft. Ick.
[13:42]  * em Leis awilkins 
[13:42] <awilkins> (actual Quakers, not the oat guys. Who were probably originally owned by real Quakers too)
[13:42] <em> http://site.blackpearldesigns.net/images/lei-greeting.jpg
[13:43] <awilkins> Nice to have an updated list of what Nestle own. Our household has a total embargo on Nestle goods
[13:44] <em> why are you boycotting them?
[13:44] <em> Is this all coming from some master list?
[13:44] <awilkins> Principally for the whole evil baby milk thing
[13:44] <em> oh i see diplo's link
[13:44] <dwatkins> there's an ancient boycott of Nestle due to some baby milk thing they did
[13:44] <em> Milk from evil babies?
[13:44] <nperry> Ha oyster fail.
[13:45] <dwatkins> em: heh
[13:45] <awilkins> They'd give out samples of baby milk in developing nations, and when the mothers milk dried up they'd stiff 'em for loadsa cash
[13:45] <Daviey> No, they took all the natural milk from African babies mothers.. leaving none left for the baby.
[13:45] <IdleOne> nestle is one of the biggest fresh water/community destroying companies in the world. They move in, buy up rights to water and when the creek runs dry they leave the community jobless and waterless
[13:45] <awilkins> Plus of course, powdered baby milk is a dumb idea in places without reliable clean water supplies
[13:45] <nperry> A couple of weeks back I had a trip register as a no check in. So got overchagred... Phoned up and got a refund and just had an email saying they are refunding me. I forgot I sent them an email asking about it.
[13:45] <nperry> So now I have two refunds.
[13:46] <dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestl%C3%A9_boycott explains
[13:46] <awilkins> Well, powdered baby milk is a dumb idea in any place, should only be a last resort
[13:46] <dwatkins> awilkins: precisely
[13:46] <em> I did not hear about the baby formula thing. :(
[13:46] <em> that really sucks.
[13:47] <dwatkins> em: yeah, it's a long-standing boycott
[13:47] <em> I thought Nestle was a Swiss or Swedish company
[13:47] <awilkins> Swiss
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> em: maybe originally
[13:47] <em> is it a personal boycott or a national one?
[13:47] <awilkins> As much as any company can be "anything-ish" now
[13:47] <em> awilkins: yeah
[13:47] <popey> awilkins, do you have children?
[13:47] <awilkins> em : personal, in our case. Wifelet is a paediatrician
[13:47] <awilkins> We have an 8 year old
[13:47] <popey> ok
[13:48] <awilkins> Large companies like to think themselves above nationality now, I'm sure
[13:48] <em> One thing that irritates me a bit is that our global corporate masters want us all to buy into the idea that a world without borders is a utopian future whenever it is about them moving and doing business where they like, and making money how they like, but with the next breath the same global corporate masters remind us that we better well remember where we live when it comes to sharing movies and music with our friends in other countries.
[13:49] <awilkins> Oh, they are all very much in favour of one law for them, etc
[13:49] <em> awilkins: its a bgood boycott
[13:49] <dwatkins> yeah, that's just them trying to make the movies scarce artificially
[13:49] <dwatkins> controlled timed released to maximise profits
[13:50] <awilkins> Was reminded of this fact recently when the Tories started this whole "Back to O-levels" thing
[13:50] <awilkins> Oddly for them, they were railing against an instance where competition was bad for the quality of the product (exam papers)
[13:50] <em> It's pretty sad when you want to share a song with someone on IRC who is in another country so you give them a youtube link and they are told the content is blocked in their country
[13:51] <awilkins> Just so uncharacteristic of the Tories to admit that competition could be BAD for something
[13:51] <em> what sort of exam papers? Like end of year standardized tests>?
[13:51] <awilkins> em, Our end-of-secondary-school tests
[13:51] <awilkins> GCSE : General Certificate of Secondary Education
[13:52] <awilkins> They're basically a total joke
[13:52] <em> Those sorts of tets are the death of education
[13:52] <awilkins> (IMHO)
[13:52] <awilkins> O-Levels were tough
[13:52] <awilkins> I did the 2nd year of GCSEs ; they weren't too bad
[13:53] <em> diplo: the chart is kind of confusing some places. Like it looks like Cadbury sends money to DrPepper but also sends money to Kraft
[13:53] <awilkins> I saw a paper from 3 years later and it went from "A goat is tethered in a triangular field to a square post with a rope N units long, calculate the area of grass the goat can eat"
[13:53] <awilkins> To "You have a calculator, feed in these numbers, push these buttons, and give the answer you get"
[13:53] <awilkins> NOT a joke
[13:53] <awilkins> This was two different exam boards (Dad was a maths teacher) but still..... utterly mental
[13:54] <AlanBell> awilkins: I think I was about the second year of GCSE too
[13:54] <dwatkins> we were encouraged to not use calculators at school.
[13:54] <em> the first problem is very difficult depending on how exact the answer is supposed to be.
[13:55] <em> Also Im not sure where the post is within the triangular field, or the dimensions of the triangle.
[13:55] <awilkins> I believe the post was situated such that the border of the field clips the circle that the rope can rach
[13:55] <em> Even if it is not inside of a triangle it is a difficult problem because as the goat moves around the post the rope gets shorter.
[13:56] <awilkins> I think you're overanalysing it
[13:56] <awilkins> These are exams for 16 year olds
[13:56] <awilkins> But I agree with that to a degree
[13:56] <awilkins> Some of the homework questions my daughter comes home with are rubbish
[13:56] <em> So we will assume that the rope is able to pivot around the post.
[13:56] <awilkins> Vague, multiple different answers, etc
[13:57] <em> How did Western Society arrive at this point?
[13:57] <awilkins> I'm going to sound cliched but it's ... "Political Correctness Gorn Maaad!!!"
[13:57] <em> We are the ones who brought analytic thinking to its sharpest and now we teach our children to consult their feelings while doing algebra to give the answer that seems most right to them.
[13:58] <awilkins> No Child Left Behind has to be one of the stupidest ideas ever
[13:58] <em> I thought that was only in the USA
[13:58] <awilkins> I got into my school through competitive examination
[13:58] <awilkins> And was setted based on my ability
[13:59] <awilkins> They still do this in my daughters school I think, but it's a Church school (and makes up for it with teachers who claim that there is actual archaeological evidence of Adam and Eve because they found two people frozen in a block of ice with no belly-buttons)
[13:59] <Seeker`> 11+ FTW
[13:59] <em> No Child Life Behind (or similar strategies) are foolish because they treat every person as if they were infinitely flexible, unlimited, and equal. Furthermore, and most of all, it fails to consider the reality of marginal utility and the extra costs of getting the last 20 percent over the arbitrary absolute hurdle.
[13:59] <awilkins> That particular one nearly sent me into the headmistresses office with my ranting hat on
[14:00] <awilkins> To Each, His Own is more my opinion
[14:00] <awilkins> I think the "No Child Left Behind" thing is a combination of envy and fear
[14:00] <em> envy of what and fear of what?
[14:00] <awilkins> Clever people
[14:01] <awilkins> If we start claiming clever people are "better", then where would it stop !?!?!?!1
[14:01] <awilkins> Ridiculous
[14:01]  * Daviey wonders if he just walked into #dailymail
[14:01] <awilkins> They're better at being clever. Not necessarily better at being happy, or good, etc
[14:01] <oimon> i thought i was in ubuntu-uk?
[14:01] <IdleOne> fear that a child might not succeed if they aren't automaticaly given a pass grade. Why bother sending them to school at all. just give them a diploma at birth and stop making me pay school taxes
[14:01] <Seeker`> awilkins: not sure its that exactly. Sure it isn't parents who don't want to believe that their child isn't a special snowflake who is better than everyone else?
[14:01] <em> I have a more charitable guess at the reasons for it. I think the intentions were probably from a basically okay place.  People don't want to see minorities or underprivildged people falling behind.
[14:02] <oimon> !offtopic
[14:03] <Seeker`> in other news, I have home made cheese straws
[14:03] <Seeker`> ZOMG GOOD
[14:04] <oimon> i have never actually looked in offtopic tbh
[14:04] <nperry> Go there then :P
[14:04] <AlanBell> it is an interesting place
[14:04] <oimon> might be too much stimulation for me
[14:05] <oimon> if i wanted politics i'd watch the telly
[14:05] <nperry> I blame awilkins
[14:05]  * awilkins blames himself too
[14:06]  * MartijnVdS blames it on the boogie
[14:06] <Seeker`> I think its Daviey's fault
[14:06] <oimon> i must be the only person running ubuntu software center in lubuntu :(
[14:06] <awilkins> I'm a Synaptic / apt-get person
[14:06] <MartijnVdS> oimon: or at all
[14:06] <oimon>  i like it, but it causes openbox to crash
[14:07] <awilkins> I only use Software Centre by accident when I download a .deb and can't be bothered to open a terminal
[14:07] <oimon> its a very nice app and offers recommendations..good for window shopping
[14:07] <oimon> saw a game today called enternal circle or something, ever seen it?
[14:07] <oimon> circular chaos unlimited
[14:08] <gord> i use synaptic/apt-get when i know what i want, software centre when i know what i want to do, but have no idea what app to do it with
[14:09] <em> I use aptitude
[14:10] <dwatkins> here comes the downpour...
[14:10] <em> lucky duck
[14:10] <em> I need a downpour
[14:10] <Seeker`> don't think the d in dwatkins stands for 'duck'
[14:12] <davmor2> Heres a shock I abuse Software Center a lot
[14:14] <nperry> oimon, do you feel this is more ontopic?
[14:14] <ali1234> well this sucks. if you install virtualbox additions on windows 8, it won't boot
[14:14] <dwatkins> em: yes, I will be floating home at this rate
[14:15] <ali1234> so i can't get file in or out of the vm, and i probably have to reinstall and download the sdk again, then upload it to U1 or something
[14:15] <dwatkins> ali1234: thanks for the warning
[14:15] <awilkins> Lovely
[14:15] <ali1234> U1 is 1GB right?
[14:15] <awilkins> U1 is 5GB
[14:15] <ali1234> ok, plenty of room them
[14:16] <awilkins> Yup, shame about the client
[14:16] <ali1234> it works on windows 8 right?
[14:16] <awilkins> Well, there's the web interface
[14:16] <ali1234> or i have to upload 500MB file through the web interface?
[14:16] <awilkins> Dunno
[14:16] <ali1234> i hate windows so much
[14:16] <awilkins> The client for Windows is .NET so it should work
[14:17] <awilkins> I meant "Shame about the client" for Ubuntu as well as Windows though
[14:17] <ali1234> well this VM is screwed
[14:17] <awilkins> Partially it's "Shame about Ubuntu's proxy support"
[14:17] <ali1234> unless there is some secret boot command for safe mode
[14:17] <awilkins> ali1234, Try holding control as the machine boots
[14:17] <awilkins> Or repeatedly hammering F8
[14:17] <ali1234> awilkins: you win the prize again
[14:18] <ali1234> why you know so much about win8?
[14:18] <directhex> the windows u1 client is Qt iirc, not .net
[14:18] <awilkins> It's just a windows thing
[14:18] <awilkins> directhex, Ah, I had a look at the .NET one
[14:18] <ali1234> i don't think "preparing automatic repair" is helping :(
[14:18] <awilkins> directhex, They re-implemented it ; I even applied for the job
[14:19] <ali1234> if this wasn't a virtual machine i would have smashed it by now
[14:19] <awilkins> directhex, And I confess I've not had a proper try with it because Dropbox works OK for me (just OK ; not as good as it could be)
[14:19] <awilkins> What they are both missing is support for PAC scripts
[14:20] <awilkins> I have this idea that Ubuntu should run a system level proxy that presents itself as HTTP / SOCKS  as desired and connect to whatever (HTTP / SOCKS / SSH) at the back
[14:20] <awilkins> And understand PAC scripts
[14:20] <ali1234> my ubuntu does do that
[14:21] <awilkins> And when you put a PAC script in the config, instead of just passing the PAC script to clients asking for the proxy address, it passes the local server address and then your app can use a proxy even if it doesn't understand PAC scripts
[14:21] <ali1234> i just have an autossh that makes a socks proxy to a vps
[14:21] <ali1234> i got no idea what a PAC script is tho :)
[14:21] <awilkins> Proxy Auto Config
[14:21] <MartijnVdS> a bit of javascript
[14:25] <awilkins> Yeah, it's just Javascript with some standard functions defined
[14:26] <awilkins> The problem with that is that most apps don't have a Javascript interpreter in them
[14:26] <awilkins> Fine for browsers, probably fine for Java 7 (Rhino!) but not for most things
[14:27] <awilkins> Hence the opinion that the OS should have a small proxy server that does understand it and that when you configure one in the network panel it should direct clients to that instead of just handing them the script file
[14:27] <awilkins> Winding back a bit, it's one of my big gripes with U1, Empathy, etc, that they don't understand PAC scripts
[14:28] <awilkins> Or SOCKS proxies configured manually in some cases
[14:29] <awilkins> A little proxy server that served the whole OS would therefore be great - most things that even understand proxies work OK with HTTP proxies, so it could adapt those to a SOCKS proxy
[14:30] <awilkins> Things that don't understand proxies AT ALL could be socksified and tunneled through it that way
[14:30] <MartijnVdS> tsocks \o/
[14:30] <dogmatic69> how can I list multi processes, been trying various forms of ps aux | grep 'proc1|proc2' but cant seem to get it right
[14:30] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Yes, this is the very reason I run tsocks
[14:30] <dogmatic69> it works with either or, just not both :/
[14:31] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, But it doesn't work (for me) with Empathy because it's difficult to get it to start in the wrapper, so I install Pidgin as well so I can tsocks it.
[14:31] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: I only use a socks proxy when ssh -D'ing somewhere
[14:32] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Conversely, I ssh -D most of the time to provide a socks proxy  :-)
[14:33] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: I use it to do remote management of network hardware (*cough*and iplayer*cough* :))
[14:33] <awilkins> I use it to get around the fact that NTLM auth'ed proxies are stoopid
[14:33] <awilkins> ntlmaps also works, I suppose
[14:33] <MartijnVdS> :(
[14:33] <awilkins> Although you have to fiddle with the default config to get it to work with obligate NTLMv2
[14:34] <awilkins> I honestly wish I'd never wired our SVN repositories in using mod_sspi as well
[14:35] <awilkins> Now we want to move them to Ubuntu and it's a right PITA to find a solution that still just transparently auths them on their Windows logins
[14:35] <awilkins> mod_sspi calls the win32 API so that's a non-starter
[14:35] <awilkins> It was never very good anyway
[14:35] <MartijnVdS> Good thing I work in a proxy-free environment
[14:37] <awilkins> Just another MS monopoly moment
[14:37] <awilkins> ISA supports NTLM because it locks you into Windows
[14:38] <awilkins> No earthly reason why they couldn't just transparently proxy port 80 and log your sessions via your DHCP lease if they really must have a per-user log of your web activity
[14:38] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: they must be sure!
[14:38] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: multiple users could be logged on on a single IP
[14:39] <awilkins> Spank them ALL!!!!!
[14:40] <awilkins> Our DHCP leases have something to do with Windows Auth too
[14:40] <awilkins> Had to boot some of my systems into Windows once a week to get a DHCP lease inside the network. Once I had it, could go back to Ubuntu...
[14:49]  * MartijnVdS cries a little
[15:07] <AlanBell> if 992293200000 is a timestamp, what time is it?
[15:08] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: Sun, 10 Jul 33414 00:00:00 GMT
[15:08] <AlanBell> hmm
[15:08] <AlanBell> how did you get to that?
[15:09] <dogmatic69> php -r "echo date('Y-m-d H:i:s', 992293200000);"
[15:09] <dogmatic69> http://www.epochconverter.com/
[15:10] <dogmatic69> 992293200 is in 2001
[15:10] <ali1234> "file sync in progress"
[15:10] <AlanBell> dogmatic69: thanks, that looks about right
[15:11] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: doubt you have to worry about what ever is happening then :P
[15:13] <AlanBell> it was a mystery field in a file call "fSub", dates in 2001 are quite a plausible content for it
[15:13] <dogmatic69> ye, / 1000 gives the 2001 date, which could indicate microtime / ms in the time stamp
[15:18] <diplo> Any of you guys ever do CyberSEcurity Challenge stuff
[15:18] <diplo> ?
[15:18] <Gra_> I have
[15:18] <diplo> Just trying the Turing Cipher atm
[15:19] <Gra_> Tried the 1st 3 challenges
[15:19] <Gra_> but no time anymore
[15:19] <diplo> Me either, I only do it for fun.. one of my old work colleages came first in a few of the challenges
[15:19] <diplo> But he spends hours/days/weeks on stuff
[15:19] <Gra_> Best bet is to look at previous answers to challengers
[15:20] <diplo> I spend an hour a week if that :D
[15:20] <diplo> I normally get so far and think i cant be arsed
[15:20] <diplo> Worked out the morse code now
[15:20] <Gra_> Remember http://canyoucrackit.co.uk/
[15:22] <diplo> http://dc3.mil/
[15:22] <diplo> I'm doing that one atm
[15:22] <diplo> Friends doing it properly, I'm just seeing if i can do any of it
[15:40] <ali1234> U1 has sync 3.8/500MB so far... in half an hour
[15:40] <popey> Whooooooooooooosh!
[15:40] <gord> zooooooooooooooooom
[15:42] <davmor2> brrrdupudeboo
[15:42] <gord> i don't think davmor2's motor is running correctly
[15:44] <davmor2> gord: that was a fantastic text rendition of R2D2 I think you'll find
[15:44] <matti> gord: Bio diesel ;d
[15:46] <ali1234> my U1 is making this noise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk2t2hIATCU
[15:48] <bigcalm> Kill it, kill it with fire!
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> Ooooh
[15:52] <MartijnVdS> lots of Bowie on BBC Four tonight
[15:52] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ^
[15:52] <MartijnVdS> Lots and lots*
[16:21] <davmor2> bigcalm: cheer yourself up with this
[16:21] <davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGCEHMT1O0w&feature=related
[16:22] <andylockran> hey guys, doing a fairly simple python run to read a url, one line at a time from a pubs.txt file, and then check the status code of that url
[16:22] <andylockran> however, I need to somehow 'escape' the urls I think, and when they contain ? or & it breaks the loop
[16:26] <bigcalm> andylockran: I know how to do it in PHP ;)
[16:27] <nperry> urllib.quote() should do it, right?
[16:45] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: eeek. when?
[16:47] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: huh, when?
[16:48] <brobostigon> woops.
[16:48] <brobostigon> sorry
[16:48] <brobostigon> 9pm, :)
[17:31] <ali1234> ooo 14mb transfered
[17:32] <AlanBell> did you put a lot of files in the U1 directory?
[17:32] <ali1234> yes
[17:32] <ali1234> i put all of the windows 8 sdk in it
[17:32] <AlanBell> U1 doesn't seem to like doing lots of work, it sulks for a few days before getting on with it
[17:32] <ali1234> it;s 500MB
[17:33] <AlanBell> aquarius or some people in #ubuntuone might be able to explain why it is sulking
[17:34] <ali1234> probably just horribly overloaded?
[17:34] <AlanBell> it isn't a server side overload, it is the client just not trying hard
[17:34] <AlanBell> or spinning the CPU at 100% for hours calculating hashes of files
[17:34] <ali1234> also the fact i'm syncing between a VM and the host machine probably isn't helping
[17:35] <AlanBell> could you zip it up and serve it up over http from host to guest?
[17:35] <ali1234> no cos i'm syncing the other way
[17:36] <ali1234> i'm trying to get the files out of a windows 8 VM
[17:36] <AlanBell> ah, so you need to post it from the vm
[17:36] <AlanBell> ftp?
[17:36] <ali1234> vbox guest utils destroys windows 8
[17:36] <ali1234> actually i wonder if the guest can see my NAS
[17:36] <ali1234> i could just drop it on that
[17:37] <ali1234> nope
[17:37] <AlanBell> so what do you have running in the guest? a browser?
[17:37] <ali1234> U1 client
[17:38] <ali1234> and a web browser
[17:38] <ali1234> and the sdk net setup.exe, but that finished ages ago
[17:40] <AlanBell> http://stackp.online.fr/?p=28
[17:40] <ali1234> ah it can see my NAS if i type the IP
[17:40] <ali1234> i'm not uploading 500MB with IE, that's insane
[17:41] <ali1234> files are now screaming to the NAS
[17:42] <ali1234> the copy dialog is pretty cool
[17:44] <ali1234> it's done :)
[17:44] <AlanBell> yay
[17:44] <ali1234> er... how do you shut down windows 8?
[17:44] <AlanBell> with a brick
[17:45] <ali1234> you press the power button
[17:45] <ali1234> and it immediately shuts down without asking what you want to do
[17:45] <AlanBell> gosh, that will confuse people who have been conditioned to press start to stop
[17:45] <ali1234> yes
[17:47] <ali1234> hmm U1 doesn't preserve file modification dates
[17:49] <ali1234> ffs it still wants a newer .net runtime
[18:23] <ahayzen> http://www.ubuntu.com/ is down =-O ... for me anyways
[18:26] <ali1234> OK! signtool from windows 8 sdk works!
[18:26] <ali1234> and by works i mean it says it signed the file
[18:39] <davmor2> ahayzen: up here
[18:40] <ahayzen> just went back up now :)
[18:40] <ahayzen> it was down though.. cause the countdown banner wasn't working on my site either
[18:52] <ali1234> it works!
[18:53] <ali1234> i managed to get to a situation where the signed code runs but the unsigned code won't
[18:53] <AlanBell> cool
[18:54] <ali1234> so he trick is you HAVE to use the windows 8 signtool - nothing else will do
[18:57] <ali1234> next i need to study what PK and KEK actually mean - it appears you need both of them enrolled for the signed efi to work
[19:24] <em> ali1234: what are you trying to do?
[19:25] <ali1234> em: i'm trying to understand UEFI from a layman's perspective
[19:25] <ali1234> UEFI secure boot that is
[19:25] <ali1234> since there is so much FUD and very little concrete information
[19:26] <ali1234> so i'm jumping in at the deep end and setting up a EFI firmware inside a virtual machine, and then making certificates and signing bootloaders to see what works and what doesn't
[19:26] <ali1234> my notes are here if you are interested: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UEFI
[19:27] <em> ali1234: wow that's impressive
[19:27] <ali1234> i spent most of today fighting windows because the only clear documentation of how to sign efi is with windows tools
[19:28] <ali1234> but apparently alternatives exist, so tomorrow i'll try those
[19:28] <ali1234> now that i have some idea of how it should go...
[19:59] <brobostigon> thank you MartijnVdS bowie, bbc4.
[20:01] <RaycisCharles> MartijnVdS: RIP Oranje.
[20:20] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Harassment vs. Offense - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/22/harassment-vs-offense/
[20:28] <directhex> http://www.it-buy.co.uk/Harddisk_drives/External_Hard_Drives/Solid_State_HDs/MTFDDAC256MAM-1K1.htm
[20:30] <directhex> (synchronous nand). it's the OEM version of the crucial m4
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: meh
[21:02] <RaycisCharles> MartijnVdS: Snjeider out, Van der Vaart in the middle.
[22:06] <gebbione> anyone knows what this port is used for commonly? 9000/tcp open  cslistener
[23:37] <MartijnVdS> cslistener! :)