[06:47] morning [06:49] morning [06:49] is everyone ready for the ubuntu-devel flamewar between red hat and ubuntu developers? [06:51] hmm? [06:53] "[Ubuntu's] design decision makes it impossible for anyone signed with the Microsoft key to implement any kind of security beyond the bootloader." [06:53] this is pure out and out FUD and if nobody else points it out before lunch time, I will [06:57] oh, from mjg59? [06:57] yes [06:58] it's FUD because if microsoft permits such permissive bootloaders in it's signing program, then whether or not ubuntu does it, somebody else will. but if microsoft does not allow it, then any design decision by ubuntu is irrelevant, because it can never be implemented [07:09] of course the obvious conclusion is that microsoft will not allow it [07:09] i guess that's what he's trying to say, without directly stating it, because he doesn't know or isn't allowed to [07:11] Morning all [07:16] actually there's a similar gaff in the original post in the thread [07:16] the reasoning behind not using grub2 is totally flawed [07:18] the claim is that an OEM could release a machine without the ability to enter setup mode and if that machine used a signed grub2 this would compell canonical to release the signing key [07:18] this is completely ridiculous on every level [07:18] firstly the GPL cannot compel anyone to do anything except come into compliance with the GPL [07:18] which in this case could be done by... ceasing to distribute the locked machines [07:19] or releasing a tool to unlock them using the platform key (the key itself would not need to be distributed, only the signed update) [07:19] but that's not the only reason the logic is flawed [07:19] you should perhaps reply on that list [07:20] for example, i could construct a UEFI firmware which verifies the GPG signature on the grub2 deb before executing it [07:20] so if the logic demonstrated in that post is true, you better stop distributing any signed debs for GPL3 applications [07:28] [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu App Showdown: Gallery Of Progress - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/26/ubuntu-app-showdown-gallery-of-progress/ [07:30] what is an "Ubuntu user picture" [07:31] morning all [07:32] wearing some new shoes today, and they're already killing my feet :P [07:47] Right fresh install of 12.04 on my personal laptop [07:47] See how unity works on there, and lets start my ubuntu app [07:47] And see how badly I fail [07:50] morning all [07:50] hey MooDoo [08:17] Ug ug [08:19] Using Markdown, can you make links use target="_blank"? [08:19] what is markdown? [08:19] http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/ <- this? [08:21] bigcalm: Get gitlab working ? [08:22] according to the documenation I don't see a way to do it [08:23] bigcalm: you can do it by exploiting unsanitized variable bug in markdown: [08:23] [hello](http://foo.com" target="_blank) [08:23] result:

hello

[08:24] presumably you can inject arbitrary html and javascript using this method [08:24] you can also include html verbatim in most implementations, so just writing the i prefer my method :) [08:25] it's cleverer [08:25] of course it will break if hey ever fix the bug [08:27] I'd class it as more of a feature [08:28] diplo: yep, I did :) [08:28] ali1234: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown [08:29] too slow man i already answered your question before you answered mine :) [08:29] ali1234: nature called :) [08:30] So the answer is yes, but it's a hack. Or just use HTML [08:30] diplo: looks really good [08:30] pretty much [08:31] any language which is "simpler" than html but then gets turned into html is always going to have it's limitations [08:31] otherwise it would be as complicated as html, just different. and therefore pointless. [08:33] cool, will take a look then bigcalm thanks [08:33] ali1234: quite === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [08:38] It amuses me when things for Unity upgrade. Have no use for them yet it would be pointless trying to remove them [08:38] why would it be pointless? [08:39] Ok, more effort than I'm willing to exert [08:39] some of them you actually have to remove if you don't use Unity, otherwise your system breaks [08:39] its the "guess what DE oimon is using today game :D" [08:39] for example if you have the global-menu plugin installed, even if you disable it with the environment variable, the wxWindows applications will have no menu bar [08:40] also "sudo apt-get purge unity" [08:44] ali1234, which DE are you on lately? [08:44] gnome fallback [08:44] ah, seemed to experience some issues with that [08:44] actually gnome-fallback + compiz 0.8 [08:44] i think it was compiz related [08:45] if you attempt to use it with compiz 0. on precise you will run into bugs [08:45] compiz 0.9 [08:45] (which really should be called compiz 2.0 because it is a completely different codebase) [08:47] lxde fixed some quirks in GF though, and cinnamon is fixing the lxde quirks, i wonder what will fix the cinnamon quirks [08:47] what's GF? [08:47] and what does cinnamon have to do with lxde? [08:48] gnome fallback [08:48] ok, how are these things related... at all? [08:49] they are all DE's i have decided "this is the DE for me", in the last month [08:49] oh [08:49] until a week in, and the quirks annoy you [08:49] yeah [08:49] just use gnome fallback with old compiz, it's great [08:49] so i'm in the cinnamon honeymoon period atm [08:50] i had issues with gnome-panel in fallback [08:50] not all apps appearing [08:50] such as? [08:50] odd [08:50] seriously tho try old cmpiz it fixes LOADS of stuff on precise [08:50] so pidgin would only show the autojoined irc channels, but i couldn't see the icon or open buddy list [08:50] i see pidgin do that sometimes [08:51] checkgmail didn't work either, which is important for me [08:51] sometimes the windows disappear [08:51] but that happened on unity too [08:51] pidgin checks your gmail for you! [08:51] why use two programs? [08:51] have you used checkgmail? [08:51] yes [08:51] it's perfect [08:51] i have my gmail configured in a highly specific way [08:51] can pidgin do what checkgmail does, via a plugin/extension? [08:52] i only care about getting alerted if new mail hits inbox [08:52] pidgin does that [08:52] then i open firefox [08:52] i wanna hover and see what it is , who it's from [08:52] i don't care about that [08:52] and even delete/mark as read [08:52] oimon: I think unity mail does the same as CheckGmail [08:52] if a mail hits my inbox it's from someone important or someone who never emailed me before [08:52] but fails at million and one other things [08:53] so i don't need to worry about checking the subject before loading up gmail [08:54] of course i always have a gmail window open somewhere at all time anyway [08:54] i have thunderbird running full time too, but that's for work mail and i don't want to mix the two [08:54] usually several and at least one on every desktop [08:55] i don't use desktop email clients at all [08:56] old compiz had an annoying bug that would crash my X session [08:56] yeah? [08:56] if the tooltip was too long [08:57] wow [08:57] so if i receive a mail , and hover over checkgmail, and the tooltip/title was too long it would crash compiz [08:57] (not X) [08:57] but i'd have zillion windows on all workspaces, so it would screw everything up [08:57] could happen once a day [08:57] also openoffice caused the same behaviour [08:58] it's in launchpad but never got any love [08:58] fixed in the 0.9 rewrite though [08:58] how to reproduce it? [09:00] recieve an email from a hotmail account usually [09:01] then hover on checkgmail icon [09:01] how to reproduce with open office? [09:01] Bug #599723 [09:01] Launchpad bug 599723 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Compiz crashes on Intel GM945" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599723 [09:02] i've noticed it's specific to intel graphics card [09:02] ok [09:02] i've added nvidia card in last couple months , so now moot anyway :D [09:03] so basically you make a toolti wider than the card's max texture size and compiz crashes [09:03] i bet it would still crash on nvidia if you got he tooltip big enough [09:03] like 10000 pixels wide [09:03] GMA945 has a really small texture limit though, 2048 pixels [09:03] yeah [09:04] that's also the reason you can never get dual head to work properly with a 1920 monitor. you only have 128 pixels left for the other head if they side by side [09:04] * AlanBell has a 2048px monitor [09:06] so then you can only do dual head if you put the second monitor abve or below it, and it is less than 512 pixels high [09:06] since moving to 2 monitor setup, i've noticed pretty poor performance [09:06] ie you can't [09:06] but it coincided with unity /compiz [09:06] (with GMA945 that is) [09:06] compiz 0.8 is much faster than 0.9 on nvidia hardware. my nvidia hardware anyway [09:07] any web developers in here looking for low paid job? [09:07] how low paid? [09:07] http://webapps.qmul.ac.uk/hr/vacancies/jobs.php?id=3106 [09:07] selling it well oimon ;) [09:07] Something is causing ' and " to be escaped when viewing a site via https. ' and " are not escaped when viewing via http. So it's an apache/php config setting, but I can't find which one. magic_quotes_* are all set to off, so it's not those [09:08] AlanBell, yeah, i should be on the apprentice on something with these skills :D [09:08] not low paid enough for me [09:08] it's 2012. gma950 performance is... well, 945gm is a chipset from early 2006 [09:08] Skills = Dreamweaver, that is not a skill :( [09:11] i guess atom extended the life of the 945 series chipsets :/ [09:12] directhex: that, and the next iteration of intelgfx being extremely buggy [09:12] my machine was a core2duo [09:12] prob 4 yrs old now [09:13] anyone using synapse launcher? [09:13] time for my few monthly facebook login to reset the settings, woo [09:14] facebook have recently started showing me large pictures of other people's likes [09:14] apparently they changed everyones contact email to @facebook.com today [09:14] e.g. i'm getting daily updates from asda and spiritual networks even though i didn't like them [09:14] sure have done mine [09:15] not the email they use to send you password resets or anything, no that goes to your actual email address. just the contact address on your profile [09:15] gord, thats so that everybody's mobile will import fb email as a contact (unless you don't sync contacts like me) [09:15] also, til, facebook has an email service? [09:15] i don't "get" facebook [09:15] yes, if you email that address they show as messages in your facebook [09:15] it's designed by chimpanzees, as far as i can tell [09:15] and cunningly its not immediately obvious that they changed it [09:15] if you go to your own profile you see your correct email addy [09:16] but if you look at your 'wall' you see the fb one that others see [09:16] actually, the average chimpanzee has far too much sense of order, logic, and aesthetic, to crap out facebook [09:16] From a T-Mobile page: "You are using another browser that is not Internet Explorer 6.0 or above. With the browser that you are using we cannot guarantee the full functionality of this website" [09:17] yes and here is no way to change it [09:17] Really bigcalm, someones not just pulling your leg? [09:17] People are still doing that.... [09:17] :( [09:17] diplo: www.t-mobile.co.uk/pmcollect [09:18] Good morning all! :) [09:18] Dear me :( [09:19] Morning JamesTait [09:19] I'd send a bug report bigcalm :P [09:19] Apparently Hayley just sent me an MMS. Why my phone didn't just show it, I dunno. [09:19] ah you can change the email, but it's really difficult [09:19] Can't see any pictures on that site. Will have to find a windows machine later [09:20] dependant on a ActiveX component maybe bigcalm ? [09:20] * bigcalm shrugs [09:21] For some reason Hayley doesn't like turning on the data connection on her phone as it consumes too much battery [09:21] Wish she'd just send the image as an email [09:21] what do you mean "for some reason" [09:21] that is a perfectly valid reason [09:21] 3G does drain the battery very fast [09:22] Not an excuse in my book [09:22] Well, that is some reason [09:22] I bought her a spare battery as well [09:22] what you should actually do is disable 3G and only use GPRS data wich uses much less power per kb [09:22] but not if you are on 3, because they'll kick you off if you do that [09:23] because they have no GPRS network of their own, it costs them loads of money [09:23] Lovely [09:23] I enable mine all day, have 3g/wifi on all day every day [09:23] what uses power, oodles of power, is bad reception [09:23] and i bet you have to charge your phone every day [09:23] and the display [09:23] I have everything turned on on my phone, but I leave it plugged in most of the day [09:23] if you have excellent reception on 3g, you'll end up using less reception that 1 bar on gprs [09:24] Every day and half or so ( not a very powerful phone ) [09:24] yes, and the display, oimon is absolutely right [09:24] yeah directhex when i worked in the gherkin it was above the transmitters, and therefore got a v bad reception [09:24] I plug it in when I go to bed [09:24] Working in a gherkin sounds unpleasant [09:24] transmitters seem to be calibrated downwards for obv reasons [09:24] directhex: that's true too, and it probably is related to the phone prefering a weak 3G signal over a strong GPRS one, and GPRS having overall better coverage [09:24] the backlight, and bad reception, are what eat batteries [09:24] also battery-eating monsters [09:24] don't forget them [09:24] my phone doesn't have any stinking backlight [09:24] i dont make phone calls [09:25] OLED [09:25] actually, yes [09:25] neither does mine, for the same reason [09:26] battery size, surprisingly, isn't a huge factor [09:26] the OS is a bigger one, e.g. webos can barely last a day on a battery that a similarly specced phone lasts 2 or 3 easy [09:26] surely it's still a huge factor? [09:27] and noting comes close to symbian in battery life [09:27] ali1234: S40 does [09:28] true [09:30] let's put it this way: symbian is the only way to get battery life similar to a S40 phone on a smartphone [09:31] but if the display is 80% of the problem, it's unrelated to the OS surely [09:31] the display isn't 80% of the problem [09:31] Since having CM7 my battery lasts a lot longer with it's power saving settings [09:31] Dave2, most smartphones have about the same size battery [09:31] good morning everyone, [09:32] motorola atrix is the last supersize battery phone i'm aware of [09:32] ok, display is 50% [09:32] mobile standby 14%, wifi 13% phone idle 8%, facebook 8% [09:32] the display is 20% of the problem, radios 20% of the problem, apps 60% of the problem [09:33] directhex: Galaxy Note appears to have 570 more mAh than the Atrix [09:33] my phone would beg to differ [09:34] Dave2, galaxy note is the size of a house. forgot people considered it to be a phone [09:35] :D [09:36] what's considered the best terminal app? [09:36] gnome-terminal, lxterminal, konsole, guake etc [09:43] facebook is introducing a close friends and acquaintances option. think i'll have to do this to avoid getting spammed too much [09:45] i thought the android app, had that function already. i mean, i have seen it there already, months ago. [09:45] they are forcing you to choose now though [09:45] because i am not seeing all updates from my wife etc [09:45] ah. [09:46] even if i choose "all updates" in the drop down for each person [09:46] its flipping annoying [09:46] i can imagine. [09:46] fb is already turning into a nightmare [09:46] i give it 5 years [09:47] i think google need to make google+ and the app, alittle more resource friendly, and i would be happier. [09:47] the g+ app is hideous now [09:47] oimon: Not sure about best but I use Terminator pretty much exclusively now [09:47] yey \o/ http://www.speedtest.net/result/2029664501.png [09:48] * diplo adds dogmatic69 to hate list :( [09:48] oimon: it works, but it is just slow, and uses too much resources. [09:48] diplo: BT infinity ftw [09:48] Guy on Facebook keeps doing those, mine top at 6mb [09:48] Yeah, certainly debating it [09:48] fortunately i saved the old version on my phone from g+ [09:48] old one was cleaner [09:49] for my tablet i've moved to flipboard instead of g+ app [09:49] diplo: I think I am paying 25 / 30 pm for phone and internet (uncapped) [09:49] oimon: you are right, it should have a copy on the cd card. :) [09:49] new g+ thinks everything needs a picture [09:49] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1004775 this is my new pet peve of a bug, I keep getting disconnected [09:49] Ubuntu bug 1004775 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager restarts dnsmasq on every IPv6 route advertisement, thus very frequently" [Undecided,Confirmed] [09:50] acquaintances list in fb is q useful though, it is essentially a group of spammy people that i can elect to receive only status updates and not shares from [09:51] Morning all [09:51] davmor2: ello [09:53] czajkowski: Aye y'up 'ow am ya [09:54] broken [09:54] :) [09:57] diplo, did you say you had centos 3 & 4 boxes still? [10:00] CentOS4 and u pyeah [10:00] no 3's though that I have come across yet [10:00] 4 is EOL too though :( [10:00] Been creating RPM's for them recently for SQLite :/ [10:00] any webservers :P [10:01] All internal for our ancient app [10:01] What are ytou after ? [10:02] nowt , just noticed we stillhave a SL4 box that needs upping to 6 [10:04] I've suggested we update all our customers sites [10:04] It wasn't a definate no, I even offered to do it :) [10:12] WTH did people name an app quickly, and the other i want to use fabric [10:12] It doesn't bode well with my google results, + my foo is sucking atm [10:13] diplo, :) [10:13] diplo, i should make this a selling point for mono - "fewer ungooglable names!" [10:14] Anybody here running Ubuntu 12.04 on a Bytemark VM? [10:14] directhex: Mono is my next project after this one [10:14] Giving myself some little projects to get my head around some things [10:15] Just fancied a little challenge so thought I'd take a look at this App Showdown and see how badly I can embarass myself [10:15] current;y i'm busy being cross at how long it's taking for monogame to clear the debian NEW queue [10:17] What the heck? [10:18] Currently during work hours directhex [10:18] My Bytemark VM is running a kernel that doesn't appear in /boot [10:18] You don't do mono stuff day time do you from memory ? [10:18] Where is it being loaded from? [10:18] diplo, no, although i can put anything involving sparkleshare on the clock, as we use it internally for a project [10:19] ah [10:19] Still enjoying the new job ? [10:19] Not so new now I guess [10:20] diplo, not 18 months in, no [10:20] bigcalm: some VM setups keep the kernel outside the disk image [10:21] Ah, as I rebooted the VM, I saw that it copied "the kernel into place" [10:21] So I don't actually get to use the kernel I want to eh? [10:22] I've never actually used a bytemark machine but I expect there is some way to set what kernel it uses. It might be a poke a support person until they fix it type problem though. [10:23] Actually: http://www.bytemark.co.uk/support/technical_documents/kernelchange?tags=ConsoleShell [10:24] That looks simple enough. Should I take bets on whether or not it's going to work? [10:25] :D [10:32] Fixed it :) [10:35] whoop! [10:37] Gitlab is really nice to use [10:37] Just a rather long set-up/install process to get there [10:38] I still haven't found out how to stop it from offering git clone URLS as git@localhost:foobar.git [10:46] gitlab? [10:47] Isn't the the open source'd self hosted version of github? [10:47] bigcalm: Open source clone of github [10:47] oooh,p pretty [10:47] haha! [10:47] even you do it! [10:47] Oh f..... [10:47] Ahem [10:48] BigRedS: I'm sure you have now and then as well [10:48] I hope so anyway :P [10:48] ruby dooby do :( [10:48] I don't think I've ever put mine in by mistake... [10:48] Hm, it does tab-complete to mine, but I need to have put the 'R' in [10:53] Awww, ruby? Why do people keep writing things in ruby? [10:54] Especially git things... [10:55] BigRedS, what is wrong with Ruby? [10:55] gah just ran 2 speedtests first at 0.01 kbs, second 60.83 meg there is no rhyme or reason to this BB issue at all [11:00] which ISP, davmor2? [11:01] dwatkins: VM at least my 20 meg connection stayed connected [11:02] davmor2: might be worth checking the output of 'mtr' to see if the problems at your end or theirs, if you havn't already. [11:02] e.g. run it against google's servers to see where the loss is happening [11:03] dwatkins: already spent 8 hours on the phone there is a high utilisation issue in my area which leads to random speeds and outage, like virgin didn't know it had customers in wolverhampton [11:04] davmor2: oh bah :( I'd be considering switching to BeThere if I were in your shoes, and would be quite vocal about it to VM... [11:04] * dwatkins recently left BT for BeThere and is extremely pleased with the result (central Edinburgh) [11:08] dwatkins: for my job there are 2 things I need a good speed and a reliable service unfortunately all the flats in heathtown have been virginised for years so to get a bt line in will cost hundreds I think last quote was about £238 so it's cheaper to keep complaining and have virgin pay my broadband bill till they fix the issue [11:10] davmor2: hmmm, I have similar issues with needing a fast connection for VPNing. If the company will pay for the installation, it might be worth considering - alternatively, see if BT will do free installation if you sign up for 18 months (which is what I did, but then couldn't wait for the time to end so I could switch, after moving house) [11:11] My connection appears to wolverhampton connected, I guess that says something about my connection trouble as well [11:13] nperry: it's really picky about being the right version of ruby and each individual gem [11:13] every ruby app I've installed for someone has taken forever to get working, and then broken on every upgrade [11:13] that's mostly redmine [11:14] perhaps RoR is worse than ruby for it, but whenever I see 'ruby' i think 'hell to manage' [11:14] But redmine is the worst example of a RoR app. :D [11:19] * AlanBell is using redmine [11:20] * bigcalm is getting close to insanity [11:20] I just want to find where localhost is being set as the path for repos [11:20] * bigcalm sods quietly [11:20] oo-er [11:20] sobs [11:20] Oh no [11:21] Bad typo [11:21] nperry: ah, quite possibly. In fact, I'd hope so! [11:24] bigcalm, any specific repos? [11:25] directhex: all of them [11:25] Well, there's 1 currently, so that's all of them :) [11:26] deb file://path/to/repo/root distname/ [11:26] Huh? [11:32] Wow, Something I changed finally made a difference [11:32] deb http://mirror.ox.ac.uk/debian/ sid main [11:32] You can all stand down now [11:32] for example. [11:33] Oh, not software repos. Repos. can also mean code repositories used by SVN, git, etc [11:36] Humm the gimp doesn't know how to correctly work with workspaces [11:37] Switch workspaces and the tools/layers windows are still visible [11:44] bigcalm: if it is gimp 2.8 enable single window mode :D [11:44] davmor2: not really the point :P [11:45] new bt is fast, but seems like the connecting part is slow. Eg: open a site takes a few seconds doing nothing and then it loads pretty much instant. [11:45] could this be something internal, can I debug it in any way? [11:45] dogmatic69: that's what I'm experiencing with VM at the moment [11:46] dogmatic69: switch dns from bt to opendns see if that has any effect [11:46] davmor2: I was looking to change the dns to my blade which forwards to google but it cant be done with the router I got [11:46] dogmatic69, probably slow dns - bt's dns isn't instant, although it's miles better than be/o2 [11:47] dogmatic69: same trouble with the VM superhub. Which is why it's good you can have it in modem only mode and then use a router you can change DNS settings on [11:47] dogmatic69: you can switch your network setting to get ip address only and then add your own dns server address [11:48] Yeah, annoying as it's not global across all machines on the network, but the only way to do it [11:48] davmor2: ye, but I want to set in on the router so everything has the config. [11:48] I run bind9 catching *.dev for web dev internally [11:49] my pc has the config you described, but I want to access *.dev on my iphone and ipad for example [11:49] changing the settings on everything is a pita [11:51] the only options available related to dns is 'dynamic dns' [11:52] just figured I can use chrome to check, and DNS lookups are taking 10sec [12:00] 6 packets transmitted, 6 received, 0% packet loss, time 25219ms [12:15] I setup dnsmasq so my machines get DNS info from my server internally, so I can customise that all I want. [12:15] alternatively, just set each client machine's DNS config manually, of course [12:28] [Iain Cuthbertson] Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on Bytemark VM - http://www.myrant.net/2012/06/26/ubuntu-12-04-lts-on-bytemark-vm/ [12:40] whoop [12:43] my network button thing has disappeared from the top bar (12.04) [12:43] how can I access that now? [12:44] that's nm-applet isn't it? [12:44] restart nm-applet [12:58] MartijnVdS: I restarted the pc and still nothing, dont seem to find nm-applet either [12:59] Grrrrrrrr [12:59] That moment when you get a support ticket and you can't replicate it. [12:59] And you get about ten in a row. [12:59] * nperry rage quits [13:04] \o/ figured it out [13:04] no more slow dns times [13:09]