[01:09] <Zignd> Can someone help me?
[01:13] <Zignd> Hello
[08:44] <hobgoblin> astraljava: any idea when the alpha2 is going to make an appearance ?
[09:01] <astraljava> Nope, but I'll ask soon-ish (meaning within a few hours).
[09:01] <hobgoblin> no hurry :)
[10:19] <astraljava> Well, sort of. It's supposed to be released on Thursday. ;)
[10:20] <astraljava> Oh, but look! There they are. :)
[11:52] <astraljava> pleia2_: Had time to look into /Long, yet? I was planning to write my call for testing of Alpha-2 this evening, meaning anything from an hour to 10. :)
[11:53] <astraljava> pleia2_: I'll try to hack it a bit before I do, obviously, and ask for feedback from the channel before I send it out for the whole world to see, of course.
[11:53] <astraljava> pleia2_: But if you had any ideas, feel free to send my way.
[11:53] <astraljava> That ^^ of course goes for the rest of the bunch.
[11:54] <astraljava> knome needn't bother. *smirk*
[12:01] <hobgoblin> astraljava: so - testing alpha2 - test against what for testcases ?
[12:06] <astraljava> hobgoblin: "Logical error: Unable to parse input."
[12:07] <astraljava> Oh, wait, that wasn't a response to my lines just above?
[12:07] <hobgoblin> well I have the short one - is there a long one - which sounds decidedly dodgy
[12:08] <hobgoblin> oh sorry no lol - t'is a brand new question :)
[12:09] <astraljava> Well we talked about it in Sunday's meeting, didn't we? It's under construction, still, and that's what I was really asking for, the feedback on how to modify it. I have ideas, and we have already discussed it with knome, for instance. But if someone wants some to send some input on it, still, then by all means, suggestions are welcome and will be considered while modifying.
[12:10] <astraljava> Hehe. "...if someone wants to send any input on it..."
[12:10] <hobgoblin> ok - I have link to the old long one - you want feedback on that? 
[12:10] <astraljava> Yes, the in-progress one isn't online yet.
[12:10] <hobgoblin> ok - well I'll do the alpha against that then 
[12:11] <astraljava> Err... no, please.
[12:11] <astraljava> Wait until the /Long testcase is published.
[12:11] <hobgoblin> ok - suits me :)
[12:12] <astraljava> It'll change, quite drastically, so we don't want data to be skewed by the outdated cases.
[12:12] <hobgoblin> yep - understand
[12:13] <astraljava> Thanks. So, if you have time, instead of testing just yet, please read the old Long case, and tell me your thoughts on it by your understanding of what we have talked about QA in the past few meetings and discussions on this channel.
[12:13] <hobgoblin> okey doke 
[12:13] <astraljava> Thoughts meaning what you'd like to remove/add/alter.
[12:14] <astraljava> Oh, one more thing.
[12:14] <astraljava> When you read it, try to keep in mind that the /Short case is a prerequirement.
[12:14] <hobgoblin> yep - understood 
[12:14] <astraljava> So a person doing that ought to have done /Short already.
[12:15] <astraljava> Won't guide you further, I wanna see how well we've managed to get our ideas through to the "new" people. :)
[12:15] <hobgoblin> so is the basic plan - boot with live - do the short then the long - then install - then do them again? 
[12:16] <astraljava> I'd at least do the /Long only after installing, but wait a second, I'm not very level-headed at the moment (due to work, not mind-altering substances). *smirk*
[12:18] <astraljava> Yeah, I'd add /Long as a direct continuation to the /Short, meaning it's Post-Install already at that point.
[12:18] <hobgoblin> yep - ok - so boot - short - install - long 
[12:18] <hobgoblin> that makes sense
[12:19] <astraljava> Well part of /Short already has Post-Install items, so the correct order would be Load - Short (including install + post-install) - Long.
[12:20] <hobgoblin> ok 
[12:20] <hobgoblin> I'll read and write then for an hour or so :)
[12:20] <astraljava> A *huge* thank-you!
[12:21] <hobgoblin> :)
[12:21] <astraljava> I know we talked about the mandatory - run-once thingie earlier, but I can't remember the outcome to that discussion, nor where we had it even. There may be changes coming to those, but let's have the alphas as they are, now. We can change for betas, then.
[12:21]  * hobgoblin needs to find out how to delete wiki's I did the hardware one in the wrong place to start with ... should have had one more cuppa
[12:22] <astraljava> hobgoblin: Why is it in a wrong place?
[12:23] <astraljava> ochosi: Sorry, my man, I forgot you had pinged me! Wassup?
[12:23] <hobgoblin> I did the first one in /testing/short/hardwareprofile ... there's the real one in /testing
[12:23] <astraljava> Ahh... but you linked to the correct one on here, so it's cool. :)
[12:24] <hobgoblin> yea :) eventually 
[13:05] <ochosi> astraljava: i wanted to ask you how the weekend went display-dialog wise :)
[13:06] <hobgoblin> astraljava: to me the long one look ok - the only things I would mention is 'ipod' should that be 'ipod' or some  usb player, hibernate I thought was not set up now 
[13:07] <hobgoblin> personally I test arandr and multiple screens - but that's just for me 
[13:08]  * ochosi sometimes wonders whether we should switch to faenza as icon-theme...
[13:35] <astraljava> ochosi: Badly. Some schedule-pressing work took over, so I didn't get to it. Sorry...
[13:36] <astraljava> hobgoblin: Thanks for the feedback, I'll keep that in mind while re-doing the case.
[13:36] <ochosi> astraljava: okay, no problem. if we re-schedule, what would be a realistic date?
[13:36] <astraljava> Alternate seems to be having a re-spin.
[13:37] <astraljava> ochosi: This coming Sunday looks promising, for the other work's deadline is Saturday. :)
[13:38] <ochosi> astraljava: ok :)
[13:38] <ochosi> astraljava: keeping my fingers crossed then
[13:39] <ochosi> astraljava: all in all we should probably set some kind of deadline for it, it also needs some testing and packaging and all, and iirc ubuntu's deadlines have become shorter...
[13:45] <astraljava> ochosi: August 23rd
[13:46] <astraljava> Beta
[13:46] <astraljava>  FeatureFreeze
[13:46] <astraljava> grr
[13:46] <astraljava> But plenty of time, still.
[13:46] <astraljava> Stupid HTML, can't the world live in plain text?!
[13:50] <ochosi> astraljava: yeah, but "plenty of time" quickly converts into "time's up!"
[13:51] <astraljava> Oh, don't I know it. :)
[13:51] <astraljava> But there's a few deadlines I can still not keep. :)
[13:52] <ochosi> sure ;)
[14:04] <astraljava> But if we seriously set a deadline, how about 8th of July? Then it'd mean I'd have one full week worth of time that I can actually, really, dedicate to these issues.
[14:04] <astraljava> week's*
[14:05] <ochosi> astraljava: yeah, fine with me
[14:06] <ochosi> astraljava: do you wanna write it down somewhere so we can follow up on it?
[14:06] <astraljava> I don't know where to. Other than my own TODO list manager.
[14:06] <ochosi> :}
[14:07] <ochosi> blueprint or meeting-agenda?
[14:08] <astraljava> Blueprints don't seem to have ETAs for work items, do they? But sure, next meeting agenda should have a point about it. When is the next meeting, btw.?
[14:09] <astraljava> Tomorrow?!
[14:09] <astraljava> But... but... how?!
[14:10] <astraljava> Ahh... yes, I remember now. I remember how it started. It's the milestone week,
[14:10] <ochosi> i thought we'd do bi-weekly meetings
[14:10] <ochosi> but this week was an exception
[14:10] <astraljava> (bonus points for anyone who recognizes that line)
[14:10] <ochosi> so yeah, tomorrow should be a meeting
[14:10] <astraljava> Yeah, actually last week's was the exception.
[14:11]  * astraljava makes a mental note for checking the action points tonight
[14:11] <ochosi> ok, true
[16:10] <pleia2> astraljava: no, didn't get a chance to look through it all, sorry :\
[16:48] <pleia2> astraljava: are /Long test things to count toward pass/fail? and if we have failures, do we not release alpha2?
[17:23]  * pleia2 sends of /Long feedback and gets back to work
[17:48] <xubuntu322> greetings from a dev of another distro
[17:48] <xubuntu322> having installed Xubuntu today for a family member, there were some points I found lacking
[17:49] <xubuntu322> if you'd like to discuss them, I posted the feedback to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=12055812
[17:51] <pleia2> xubuntu322: might be a better discussion for the mailing list so folks can reply when they're available (busy week here with alpha2 on Thursday)
[17:52] <pleia2> as to some of the failures you're seeing during install, can you submit bugs so the devs can investigate?
[17:52] <xubuntu322> pleia2: nothing failed visibly, only a ton of failures were logged in the (hidden by default) log
[17:53] <xubuntu322> the installed system works as intended, as far as I can tell
[17:53] <pleia2> xubuntu322: right, do you have a way to save that log so you can submit the bugs?
[17:53] <xubuntu322> let me check whether the installer left it on the HD
[17:53] <Sysi> there's a button to not connect to internet during installation, at least when opening installer after "try xubuntu without installing"
[17:54] <ochosi> xubuntu322: just curious, what distro?
[17:54] <Sysi> button being network managment applet
[17:54] <xubuntu322> ochosi: tinycore
[17:54] <GridCube> oh tinycore is awesome :D
[17:54] <xubuntu322> Sysi: I went directly to the installer
[17:56] <ochosi> xubuntu322: problem is that much of what you describe actually has to do with ubiquity (the installer) and therefore ubuntu, not xubuntu
[17:57] <ochosi> xubuntu322: we just use that system, and we don't have enough devs to "cook our own soup"
[17:57] <ochosi> xubuntu322: mostly the "WM crashed" bug is ours, we know about it but haven't fixed it yet (looking at you, astraljava :) )
[17:58] <davmor2> xubuntu322: there is still a networking applet at the top in the bar that you can just select disconnect from the network, and there should be 2 check boxes one for restricted and one for updates you would need to uncheck both
[18:01] <astraljava> ochosi: Oh? Am I supposed to fix a window manager crashing bug?
[18:02] <ochosi> astraljava: no, that's the bug about the compositor being switched "on" in ubiquity/installer
[18:02] <astraljava> Right.
[18:04] <xubuntu322> davmor2: there was no top bar, see the "WM crashed" :)
[18:05] <ochosi> davmor2: yes, in the direct-install mode there is no panel :( (at least not in xubuntu, i think that's another thing we could fix)
[18:05] <ochosi> bbl
[18:05] <davmor2> xubuntu322: ah that explains it then sorry
[18:06] <xubuntu322> ok, I tarballed up the whole /var/log dir from that machine
[18:06] <xubuntu322> which logs are from the installer?
[18:07] <xubuntu322> the installer/ dir does not have the relevant log
[18:08] <pleia2> probably want to look in syslog
[18:09] <pleia2> and as ochosi said, most bugs will go against the ubiquity package
[18:10] <davmor2> xubuntu322: if you are on that machine you can do ubuntu-bug ubiquity and that should upload all the required files to fix a fault note the should I've not needed to do that for a while :)
[18:10] <xubuntu322> davmor2: already packed it up, sorry
[18:11] <davmor2> xubuntu322: no worries then 
[18:19] <xubuntu322> the full log was nowhere to be found
[18:19] <xubuntu322> but at least parts of the warnings I was were from dpkg, a ton of "dpkg: regarding .../libpcre3_8.12-4_amd64.deb containing libpcre3, pre-dependency problem"
[18:19] <xubuntu322> so it appears a cosmetic issue in dpkg/ubiquity interaction
[18:22] <davmor2> xubuntu322: /var/log/installer/sys.log maybe or something like that 
[18:23] <xubuntu322> ls installer/
[18:23] <xubuntu322> initial-status.gz  media-info
[18:24] <davmor2> davmor2@boromir:~$ ls /var/log/installer/
[18:24] <davmor2> casper.log  debug  initial-status.gz  media-info  partman  syslog  version
[18:24] <xubuntu322> I don't have those? Are they perhaps removed after X successful boots, etc?
[18:24] <davmor2> might be part of the crash maybe
[18:25] <davmor2> xubuntu322: nope they stay
[18:25] <xubuntu322> the installer completed successfully, and the ext4 fs did not sound a warning on the first boot
[18:32] <xubuntu322> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubiquity/ - ubiquity doesn't seem to accept bug reports?
[18:42] <GridCube> xubuntu322: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect
[18:42] <GridCube> and report it against ubiquity when it asks
[19:49] <ochosi> some brainfood for all who think that audio-players should manage podcasts and streams as well: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/06/apple-podcasts-app/
[19:50] <ochosi> (this is basically apple saying: our music app wasn't good enough in making podcasts etc accessible, and to my experience that is true)
[19:52] <Unit193> So... Because Apple does it it must be true? ;P
[19:53] <pleia2> he didn't say that
[19:53] <pleia2> just something to consider
[19:54] <Unit193> :D
[19:54] <ochosi> i'm wondering how long until they cut itunes open and replace it with slimmer, more one-task-oriented apps
[23:07] <pleia2> btw, reported after our QA meeting: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+bug/1017207
[23:07] <pleia2> so it looks like they're planning on linking it up with UF
[23:36] <pleia2> started a draft on the site for alpha2 notes