| ubot5 | New news from planetubuntu: Jorge Castro: Zentyal commercial support available <http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/06/26/zentyal-support-now-available/> | 06:28 |
|---|---|---|
| sam-c | on security? | 09:53 |
| sam-c | Is ubuntu Quantel Alpha as safe as ubuntu Precise 12.04 LTS ? at presnt?? | 09:57 |
| jussi | sam-c: I seriously doubt it | 10:12 |
| scout1340793703 | ciao a tutti!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 11:57 |
| === popey_ is now known as popey | ||
| oCean | zykotick9: how come you think Ubuntu is cutting edge? | 15:24 |
| oCean | I haven't had a crash or non-working device in years (litteraly) | 15:24 |
| oCean | Which I frequently do have using fedora for example :p | 15:24 |
| Jagst3r15 | so i want to rant about ubuntu and updates | 15:25 |
| oCean | rant? | 15:25 |
| oCean | it is -discuss | 15:25 |
| zykotick9 | oCean: comparing package age of ubuntu to enterprise grade distros like debian or RHEL and you'll see a HUGE difference | 15:25 |
| * AlanBell checks for updates on quantal | 15:26 | |
| oCean | oh right, that is true, but those have an entirely different market | 15:26 |
| DJones | Jagst3r15: As the topic says, no ranting here please | 15:26 |
| zykotick9 | oCean: also, if you want stable - i'd look elsewhere then ubuntu | 15:26 |
| Jagst3r15 | sorry i meant discuss | 15:26 |
| oCean | zykotick9: actually, in my experience - no. Ubuntu has been stable for me on 3 different lap/desktops and various servers | 15:26 |
| AlanBell | stable can mean "doesn't change much" which is the debian meaning of it, or "doesn't crash lots" which isn't the Microsoft definition | 15:27 |
| zykotick9 | oCean: i used to think ubuntu was stable - but it breaks a lot... just look at #ubuntu for examples of that | 15:27 |
| Jagst3r15 | dont you think its a problem that canonical wants to release ubuntu on stuff like dell computers - seems kind of problematic to include LTS distros on them when alot of software is out of date | 15:27 |
| AlanBell | I find Ubuntu pretty solid, unity used to be flakey but now it is much better | 15:27 |
| AlanBell | Jagst3r15: not much in 12.04 is out of date | 15:28 |
| Jagst3r15 | yes but just wait a year or two, right? | 15:28 |
| zykotick9 | oCean: compared to old-school gentoo (where i came from) - ubuntu is a rock ;) | 15:28 |
| AlanBell | firefox and thunderbird will be up to date, kernels will be backported too | 15:28 |
| oCean | zykotick9: I think the larger part of issues mentioned in #ubuntu channel are because of users that want exotic stuff (i.e. non-standard) | 15:29 |
| AlanBell | libreoffice as well I think | 15:29 |
| Jagst3r15 | i also dont understand why chrome isnt allowed in the software center | 15:29 |
| DJones | Jagst3r15: But thats one of the "benefits" of an LTS, packages will change, if you want later, newer packages, you do get the option to upgrade every 6 months anyway | 15:29 |
| AlanBell | chromium-browser is | 15:29 |
| Jagst3r15 | not chromium, but google chrome - they have an official distro | 15:29 |
| Jagst3r15 | google chrome is better IMO | 15:29 |
| AlanBell | which is non-free | 15:30 |
| oCean | Last weekend I bought a brand new "ultrabook", booted from Xubuntu USB, 15 minutes later everything (graphics, sound, wireless, bluetooth) worked | 15:30 |
| zykotick9 | oCean: agreed. there is a "user" element to MANY of the issues. but general updates on ubuntu do break more then they should. | 15:30 |
| DJones | I thought Chrome wasn't included because google had their own distribution system & their own repo which keeps it under their own control | 15:30 |
| oCean | zykotick9: I still have to experience that, really. An update breaking anything for me | 15:30 |
| oCean | zykotick9: granted, I do not use Unity | 15:30 |
| Jagst3r15 | DJones I think your right | 15:30 |
| oCean | so, no experience there | 15:30 |
| Jagst3r15 | oCean what do you use then? | 15:31 |
| oCean | xubuntu, xfce | 15:31 |
| Jagst3r15 | oh i c | 15:31 |
| Jagst3r15 | so when 12.10 is release do all of the things in the software center recive an upgrade? | 15:32 |
| oCean | no | 15:32 |
| DJones | I only use one app that consistently crashes and thats installed from a ppa, everything else in a default ubuntu install including unity has been rock solid for me | 15:32 |
| oCean | !sru | Jagst3r15 | 15:33 |
| ubot5 | Jagst3r15: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates | 15:33 |
| Jagst3r15 | thanks | 15:35 |
| Jagst3r15 | forigive me I am a noob and am tryint to understand how it works :) | 15:35 |
| oCean | Jagst3r15: not considered a noob at all. | 15:35 |
| oCean | I wonder how difficult it would be to combine stable and latest releases. I mean, give the user a choice to tick the box "gimme al the latest" or (by default) only stable updates | 15:36 |
| oCean | (I don't know very much about that process and the possibilities) | 15:37 |
| Jagst3r15 | i think skype will get update | 15:38 |
| Jagst3r15 | because microsoft is like a partner? | 15:38 |
| Jagst3r15 | oCean is xubuntu updated frewuently? | 15:46 |
| Jagst3r15 | every six months right | 15:46 |
| oCean | Jagst3r15: it is exactly as ubuntu, only that it uses XFCE, not Gnome/Unity. | 15:47 |
| oCean | It uses same repositories etc | 15:47 |
| Jagst3r15 | ahh so its like a wordpress theme u can just change in and out | 15:47 |
| oCean | well, almost | 15:47 |
| oCean | there are more: KDE (Kubuntu) and LXDE (Lubuntu) for example | 15:48 |
| Jagst3r15 | ah | 15:49 |
| Jagst3r15 | oCean what is the term for updated repos? | 15:50 |
| Jagst3r15 | is that PPA? | 15:50 |
| Jagst3r15 | its like ones maintained by others | 15:50 |
| Jagst3r15 | not ubuntu official ones | 15:50 |
| oCean | !ppa | 15:51 |
| ubot5 | A Personal Package Archive (PPA) can provide alternate software not normally available in the offical Ubuntu repositories - Looking for a PPA? See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas - WARNING: PPAs are unsupported third-party packages, and you use them at your own risk. See also !addppa and !ppa-purge | 15:51 |
| Jagst3r15 | ahh thanks | 15:52 |
| oCean | As it says "3rd party packages" So no guarantees | 15:52 |
| Jagst3r15 | but if its like from google.com its probably cool? | 15:52 |
| Jagst3r15 | like chrome | 15:52 |
| oCean | well, you could do a little research on the PPA, how often it is used/updated etc. But still, even a stable PPA might cause issues in the future. With "no guarantees" I mean that the maintainers of those PPA's have no obligation to keep updating their software | 15:53 |
| Jagst3r15 | oh i c | 15:54 |
| Jagst3r15 | thanks for help oCean. I am off to lunch | 15:57 |
| === ashams_ is now known as ashams | ||
| ubot5 | New news from planetubuntu: Jonathan Ernst: Solar oven crowdfunding for Ifaty, Madagascar <http://ernstfamily.ch/jonathan/2012/06/solar-cooker/> | 18:01 |
| Jagst3r15 | for ubuntu 12.10 what does it mean that it will include a vanilla version of gnome as an option ? | 18:11 |
| AlanBell | Jagst3r15: it means a version without patches to make it more ubuntuish | 18:44 |
| AlanBell | and all the bits of gnome | 18:44 |
| Jagst3r15 | AlanBell u know where i can find a list of the Main - Officially supported software? | 18:46 |
| Jagst3r15 | as per https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu | 18:46 |
| AlanBell | http://packages.ubuntu.com/ | 18:46 |
| Jagst3r15 | how would i see a list of officially supported ones | 18:47 |
| Jagst3r15 | i.e. ones that are continuously updates like firefox | 18:47 |
| AlanBell | ah, that is different | 18:48 |
| AlanBell | officially supported ones are everything in main | 18:48 |
| AlanBell | as in they get updates by canonical | 18:48 |
| Jagst3r15 | where would i see that? | 18:48 |
| Jagst3r15 | like a list | 18:48 |
| AlanBell | the other bits (universe,multiverse,restricted) can get updates from the community, but not so many | 18:49 |
| AlanBell | generally supported means they keep those versions going | 18:49 |
| AlanBell | does not mean they drop in new versions with new features, just bug fixes | 18:50 |
| Jagst3r15 | ones in main recieve new features tho? | 18:50 |
| AlanBell | no | 18:50 |
| Jagst3r15 | how come firefox is same version as one for windows then | 18:50 |
| AlanBell | there are a very small number of packages with strong upstreams where new versions are updated | 18:50 |
| AlanBell | like really really small | 18:51 |
| Jagst3r15 | oh like under 10? like that small | 18:51 |
| AlanBell | like I am not sure if it is anything other than firefox | 18:52 |
| Jagst3r15 | maybe gedit and libreoffice? | 18:53 |
| AlanBell | not gedit | 18:53 |
| AlanBell | ati and nvidia binary drivers might get updates | 18:53 |
| Jagst3r15 | oh itsjust coincidence that its the same version | 18:53 |
| Jagst3r15 | because last version of gedit was early april and 12.04 was released in april | 18:54 |
| AlanBell | yeah | 18:54 |
| Jagst3r15 | someone told me that it was firecly deabted about having everything with strong upstreams | 18:54 |
| Jagst3r15 | but they decided on stable release instead of rolling | 18:55 |
| AlanBell | yes, however the development version of Ubuntu (Quantal at the moment) is basically a rolling release | 18:56 |
| Jagst3r15 | until they freeze it? | 18:56 |
| AlanBell | they have changed things to make it more likely that it basically works every day | 18:56 |
| AlanBell | yeah, until freeze, then you can upgrade again to the latest crack | 18:56 |
| Jagst3r15 | cuz dont they freeze it before they are gonna release stable | 18:56 |
| Jagst3r15 | ah | 18:57 |
| Jagst3r15 | i cant get past the fact that they dont update programs in software center | 18:57 |
| Jagst3r15 | bothers me | 18:57 |
| AlanBell | final freeze is only a week or two before release (and it isn't *that* frozen) | 18:57 |
| AlanBell | depends how they are in software centre and who updates them | 18:57 |
| IdleOne | Ubuntu aims for stability that is why not every applications is the latest version | 18:57 |
| Jagst3r15 | true but for something like chromium | 18:58 |
| Jagst3r15 | its already a version behind | 18:58 |
| Jagst3r15 | two years from now it will be really behind | 18:58 |
| Jagst3r15 | if u use LTS | 18:58 |
| AlanBell | and works just fine | 18:58 |
| Jagst3r15 | im not saying its a problem for me particularly | 18:59 |
| Jagst3r15 | but for users who buy a laptop from dell like they do in inida now | 18:59 |
| IdleOne | security updates are added and they do point releases for LTS which means apps like chromium could be upgraded to newer versions | 18:59 |
| Jagst3r15 | is it up to the package maintaner to release a newer version or do they hve to get canoinical approval | 18:59 |
| IdleOne | I am not sure how that gets decided | 19:00 |
| IdleOne | maybe AlanBell knows | 19:00 |
| Jagst3r15 | again im not complaining, just trying to think whats best for ubuntu and users who dont know about this kind of stuff | 19:01 |
| AlanBell | it varies | 19:01 |
| AlanBell | for apps that go in via the app review board they can get updates whenever | 19:01 |
| Jagst3r15 | whats an example of that | 19:02 |
| AlanBell | for stuff that is in the main repositories then updates sometimes go via debian first | 19:02 |
| AlanBell | http://developer.ubuntu.com/ | 19:02 |
| Jagst3r15 | doesnt debian have rolling release | 19:03 |
| Jagst3r15 | AlanBell im also asking because i see there are alot of paid apps | 19:06 |
| Jagst3r15 | and ud think they would need new features | 19:06 |
| AlanBell | no, debian doesn't have rolling release, they have the same kind of strategy, but they only release when they feel like it, not on a regular basis. The stable version of Debian can be very old. | 19:36 |
| AlanBell | paid apps get updates I think, they are not in the main repositories | 19:37 |
| ubot5 | New news from planetubuntu: Matthew Helmke: VMware Cookbook, second edition <http://matthewhelmke.net/2012/06/vmware-cookbook-second-edition/> | 20:02 |
| === bazhang_ is now known as bazhang | ||
| Pecker | Why does unity have so much overhead? | 21:35 |
| ubot5 | New news from planetubuntu: Nicholas Skaggs: Bleeding Orange and Purple <http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/06/bleeding-orange-and-purple.html> | 22:32 |
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