[06:28] New news from planetubuntu: Jorge Castro: Zentyal commercial support available [09:53] on security? [09:57] Is ubuntu Quantel Alpha as safe as ubuntu Precise 12.04 LTS ? at presnt?? [10:12] sam-c: I seriously doubt it [11:57] ciao a tutti!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! === popey_ is now known as popey [15:24] zykotick9: how come you think Ubuntu is cutting edge? [15:24] I haven't had a crash or non-working device in years (litteraly) [15:24] Which I frequently do have using fedora for example :p [15:25] so i want to rant about ubuntu and updates [15:25] rant? [15:25] it is -discuss [15:25] oCean: comparing package age of ubuntu to enterprise grade distros like debian or RHEL and you'll see a HUGE difference [15:26] * AlanBell checks for updates on quantal [15:26] oh right, that is true, but those have an entirely different market [15:26] Jagst3r15: As the topic says, no ranting here please [15:26] oCean: also, if you want stable - i'd look elsewhere then ubuntu [15:26] sorry i meant discuss [15:26] zykotick9: actually, in my experience - no. Ubuntu has been stable for me on 3 different lap/desktops and various servers [15:27] stable can mean "doesn't change much" which is the debian meaning of it, or "doesn't crash lots" which isn't the Microsoft definition [15:27] oCean: i used to think ubuntu was stable - but it breaks a lot... just look at #ubuntu for examples of that [15:27] dont you think its a problem that canonical wants to release ubuntu on stuff like dell computers - seems kind of problematic to include LTS distros on them when alot of software is out of date [15:27] I find Ubuntu pretty solid, unity used to be flakey but now it is much better [15:28] Jagst3r15: not much in 12.04 is out of date [15:28] yes but just wait a year or two, right? [15:28] oCean: compared to old-school gentoo (where i came from) - ubuntu is a rock ;) [15:28] firefox and thunderbird will be up to date, kernels will be backported too [15:29] zykotick9: I think the larger part of issues mentioned in #ubuntu channel are because of users that want exotic stuff (i.e. non-standard) [15:29] libreoffice as well I think [15:29] i also dont understand why chrome isnt allowed in the software center [15:29] Jagst3r15: But thats one of the "benefits" of an LTS, packages will change, if you want later, newer packages, you do get the option to upgrade every 6 months anyway [15:29] chromium-browser is [15:29] not chromium, but google chrome - they have an official distro [15:29] google chrome is better IMO [15:30] which is non-free [15:30] Last weekend I bought a brand new "ultrabook", booted from Xubuntu USB, 15 minutes later everything (graphics, sound, wireless, bluetooth) worked [15:30] oCean: agreed. there is a "user" element to MANY of the issues. but general updates on ubuntu do break more then they should. [15:30] I thought Chrome wasn't included because google had their own distribution system & their own repo which keeps it under their own control [15:30] zykotick9: I still have to experience that, really. An update breaking anything for me [15:30] zykotick9: granted, I do not use Unity [15:30] DJones I think your right [15:30] so, no experience there [15:31] oCean what do you use then? [15:31] xubuntu, xfce [15:31] oh i c [15:32] so when 12.10 is release do all of the things in the software center recive an upgrade? [15:32] no [15:32] I only use one app that consistently crashes and thats installed from a ppa, everything else in a default ubuntu install including unity has been rock solid for me [15:33] !sru | Jagst3r15 [15:33] Jagst3r15: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates [15:35] thanks [15:35] forigive me I am a noob and am tryint to understand how it works :) [15:35] Jagst3r15: not considered a noob at all. [15:36] I wonder how difficult it would be to combine stable and latest releases. I mean, give the user a choice to tick the box "gimme al the latest" or (by default) only stable updates [15:37] (I don't know very much about that process and the possibilities) [15:38] i think skype will get update [15:38] because microsoft is like a partner? [15:46] oCean is xubuntu updated frewuently? [15:46] every six months right [15:47] Jagst3r15: it is exactly as ubuntu, only that it uses XFCE, not Gnome/Unity. [15:47] It uses same repositories etc [15:47] ahh so its like a wordpress theme u can just change in and out [15:47] well, almost [15:48] there are more: KDE (Kubuntu) and LXDE (Lubuntu) for example [15:49] ah [15:50] oCean what is the term for updated repos? [15:50] is that PPA? [15:50] its like ones maintained by others [15:50] not ubuntu official ones [15:51] !ppa [15:51] A Personal Package Archive (PPA) can provide alternate software not normally available in the offical Ubuntu repositories - Looking for a PPA? See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas - WARNING: PPAs are unsupported third-party packages, and you use them at your own risk. See also !addppa and !ppa-purge [15:52] ahh thanks [15:52] As it says "3rd party packages" So no guarantees [15:52] but if its like from google.com its probably cool? [15:52] like chrome [15:53] well, you could do a little research on the PPA, how often it is used/updated etc. But still, even a stable PPA might cause issues in the future. With "no guarantees" I mean that the maintainers of those PPA's have no obligation to keep updating their software [15:54] oh i c [15:57] thanks for help oCean. I am off to lunch === ashams_ is now known as ashams [18:01] New news from planetubuntu: Jonathan Ernst: Solar oven crowdfunding for Ifaty, Madagascar [18:11] for ubuntu 12.10 what does it mean that it will include a vanilla version of gnome as an option ? [18:44] Jagst3r15: it means a version without patches to make it more ubuntuish [18:44] and all the bits of gnome [18:46] AlanBell u know where i can find a list of the Main - Officially supported software? [18:46] as per https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu [18:46] http://packages.ubuntu.com/ [18:47] how would i see a list of officially supported ones [18:47] i.e. ones that are continuously updates like firefox [18:48] ah, that is different [18:48] officially supported ones are everything in main [18:48] as in they get updates by canonical [18:48] where would i see that? [18:48] like a list [18:49] the other bits (universe,multiverse,restricted) can get updates from the community, but not so many [18:49] generally supported means they keep those versions going [18:50] does not mean they drop in new versions with new features, just bug fixes [18:50] ones in main recieve new features tho? [18:50] no [18:50] how come firefox is same version as one for windows then [18:50] there are a very small number of packages with strong upstreams where new versions are updated [18:51] like really really small [18:51] oh like under 10? like that small [18:52] like I am not sure if it is anything other than firefox [18:53] maybe gedit and libreoffice? [18:53] not gedit [18:53] ati and nvidia binary drivers might get updates [18:53] oh itsjust coincidence that its the same version [18:54] because last version of gedit was early april and 12.04 was released in april [18:54] yeah [18:54] someone told me that it was firecly deabted about having everything with strong upstreams [18:55] but they decided on stable release instead of rolling [18:56] yes, however the development version of Ubuntu (Quantal at the moment) is basically a rolling release [18:56] until they freeze it? [18:56] they have changed things to make it more likely that it basically works every day [18:56] yeah, until freeze, then you can upgrade again to the latest crack [18:56] cuz dont they freeze it before they are gonna release stable [18:57] ah [18:57] i cant get past the fact that they dont update programs in software center [18:57] bothers me [18:57] final freeze is only a week or two before release (and it isn't *that* frozen) [18:57] depends how they are in software centre and who updates them [18:57] Ubuntu aims for stability that is why not every applications is the latest version [18:58] true but for something like chromium [18:58] its already a version behind [18:58] two years from now it will be really behind [18:58] if u use LTS [18:58] and works just fine [18:59] im not saying its a problem for me particularly [18:59] but for users who buy a laptop from dell like they do in inida now [18:59] security updates are added and they do point releases for LTS which means apps like chromium could be upgraded to newer versions [18:59] is it up to the package maintaner to release a newer version or do they hve to get canoinical approval [19:00] I am not sure how that gets decided [19:00] maybe AlanBell knows [19:01] again im not complaining, just trying to think whats best for ubuntu and users who dont know about this kind of stuff [19:01] it varies [19:01] for apps that go in via the app review board they can get updates whenever [19:02] whats an example of that [19:02] for stuff that is in the main repositories then updates sometimes go via debian first [19:02] http://developer.ubuntu.com/ [19:03] doesnt debian have rolling release [19:06] AlanBell im also asking because i see there are alot of paid apps [19:06] and ud think they would need new features [19:36] no, debian doesn't have rolling release, they have the same kind of strategy, but they only release when they feel like it, not on a regular basis. The stable version of Debian can be very old. [19:37] paid apps get updates I think, they are not in the main repositories [20:02] New news from planetubuntu: Matthew Helmke: VMware Cookbook, second edition === bazhang_ is now known as bazhang [21:35] Why does unity have so much overhead? [22:32] New news from planetubuntu: Nicholas Skaggs: Bleeding Orange and Purple