[09:53] <sam-c> on security?
[09:57] <sam-c> Is ubuntu Quantel Alpha as safe as ubuntu Precise 12.04 LTS ? at presnt??
[10:12] <jussi> sam-c: I seriously doubt it
[11:57] <scout1340793703> ciao a tutti!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[15:24] <oCean> zykotick9: how come you think Ubuntu is cutting edge?
[15:24] <oCean> I haven't had a crash or non-working device in years (litteraly)
[15:24] <oCean> Which I frequently do have using fedora for example :p
[15:25] <Jagst3r15> so i want to rant about ubuntu and updates
[15:25] <oCean> rant?
[15:25] <oCean> it is -discuss
[15:25] <zykotick9> oCean: comparing package age of ubuntu to enterprise grade distros like debian or RHEL and you'll see a HUGE difference
[15:26]  * AlanBell checks for updates on quantal
[15:26] <oCean> oh right, that is true, but those have an entirely different market
[15:26] <DJones> Jagst3r15: As the topic says, no ranting here please
[15:26] <zykotick9> oCean: also, if you want stable - i'd look elsewhere then ubuntu
[15:26] <Jagst3r15> sorry i meant discuss
[15:26] <oCean> zykotick9: actually, in my experience - no. Ubuntu has been stable for me on 3 different lap/desktops and various servers
[15:27] <AlanBell> stable can mean "doesn't change much" which is the debian meaning of it, or "doesn't crash lots" which isn't the Microsoft definition
[15:27] <zykotick9> oCean: i used to think ubuntu was stable - but it breaks a lot...  just look at #ubuntu for examples of that
[15:27] <Jagst3r15> dont you think its a problem that canonical wants to release ubuntu on stuff like dell computers - seems kind of problematic to include LTS distros on them when alot of software is out of date
[15:27] <AlanBell> I find Ubuntu pretty solid, unity used to be flakey but now it is much better
[15:28] <AlanBell> Jagst3r15: not much in 12.04 is out of date
[15:28] <Jagst3r15> yes but just wait a year or two, right?
[15:28] <zykotick9> oCean: compared to old-school gentoo (where i came from) - ubuntu is a rock ;)
[15:28] <AlanBell> firefox and thunderbird will be up to date, kernels will be backported too
[15:29] <oCean> zykotick9: I think the larger part of issues mentioned in #ubuntu channel are because of users that want exotic stuff (i.e. non-standard)
[15:29] <AlanBell> libreoffice as well I think
[15:29] <Jagst3r15> i also dont understand why chrome isnt allowed in the software center
[15:29] <DJones> Jagst3r15: But thats one of the "benefits" of an LTS, packages will change, if you want later, newer packages, you do get the option to upgrade every 6 months anyway
[15:29] <AlanBell> chromium-browser is
[15:29] <Jagst3r15> not chromium, but google chrome - they have an official distro
[15:29] <Jagst3r15> google chrome is better IMO
[15:30] <AlanBell> which is non-free
[15:30] <oCean> Last weekend I bought a brand new "ultrabook", booted from Xubuntu USB, 15 minutes later everything (graphics, sound, wireless, bluetooth) worked
[15:30] <zykotick9> oCean: agreed.  there is a "user" element to MANY of the issues.  but general updates on ubuntu do break more then they should.
[15:30] <DJones> I thought Chrome wasn't included because google had their own distribution system & their own repo which keeps it under their own control
[15:30] <oCean> zykotick9: I still have to experience that, really. An update breaking anything for me
[15:30] <oCean> zykotick9: granted, I do not use Unity
[15:30] <Jagst3r15> DJones I think your right
[15:30] <oCean> so, no experience there
[15:31] <Jagst3r15> oCean what do you use then?
[15:31] <oCean> xubuntu, xfce
[15:31] <Jagst3r15> oh i c
[15:32] <Jagst3r15> so when 12.10 is release do all of the things in the software center recive an upgrade?
[15:32] <oCean> no
[15:32] <DJones> I only use one app that consistently crashes and thats installed from a ppa, everything else in a default ubuntu install including unity has been rock solid for me
[15:33] <oCean> !sru | Jagst3r15
[15:35] <Jagst3r15> thanks
[15:35] <Jagst3r15> forigive me I am a noob and am tryint to understand how it works :)
[15:35] <oCean> Jagst3r15: not considered a noob at all.
[15:36] <oCean> I wonder how difficult it would be to combine stable and latest releases. I mean, give the user a choice to tick the box "gimme al the latest" or (by default) only stable updates
[15:37] <oCean> (I don't know very much about that process and the possibilities)
[15:38] <Jagst3r15> i think skype will get update
[15:38] <Jagst3r15> because microsoft is like a partner?
[15:46] <Jagst3r15> oCean is xubuntu updated frewuently?
[15:46] <Jagst3r15> every six months right
[15:47] <oCean> Jagst3r15: it is exactly as ubuntu, only that it uses XFCE, not Gnome/Unity.
[15:47] <oCean> It uses same repositories etc
[15:47] <Jagst3r15> ahh so its like a wordpress theme u can just change in and out
[15:47] <oCean> well, almost
[15:48] <oCean> there are more: KDE (Kubuntu) and LXDE (Lubuntu) for example
[15:49] <Jagst3r15>  ah
[15:50] <Jagst3r15> oCean what is the term for updated repos?
[15:50] <Jagst3r15> is that PPA?
[15:50] <Jagst3r15> its like ones maintained by others
[15:50] <Jagst3r15> not ubuntu official ones
[15:51] <oCean> !ppa
[15:52] <Jagst3r15> ahh thanks
[15:52] <oCean> As it says "3rd party packages" So no guarantees
[15:52] <Jagst3r15> but if its like from google.com its probably cool?
[15:52] <Jagst3r15> like chrome
[15:53] <oCean> well, you could do a little research on the PPA, how often it is used/updated etc. But still, even a stable PPA might cause issues in the future. With "no guarantees" I mean that the maintainers of those PPA's have no obligation to keep updating their software
[15:54] <Jagst3r15> oh i c
[15:57] <Jagst3r15> thanks for help oCean. I am off to lunch
[18:11] <Jagst3r15> for ubuntu 12.10 what does it mean that it will include a vanilla version of gnome as an option ?
[18:44] <AlanBell> Jagst3r15: it means a version without patches to make it more ubuntuish
[18:44] <AlanBell> and all the bits of gnome
[18:46] <Jagst3r15> AlanBell u know where i can find a list of the Main - Officially supported software?
[18:46] <Jagst3r15> as per https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu
[18:46] <AlanBell> http://packages.ubuntu.com/
[18:47] <Jagst3r15> how would i see a list of officially supported ones
[18:47] <Jagst3r15> i.e. ones that are continuously updates like firefox
[18:48] <AlanBell> ah, that is different
[18:48] <AlanBell> officially supported ones are everything in main
[18:48] <AlanBell> as in they get updates by canonical
[18:48] <Jagst3r15> where would i see that?
[18:48] <Jagst3r15> like a list
[18:49] <AlanBell> the other bits (universe,multiverse,restricted) can get updates from the community, but not so many
[18:49] <AlanBell> generally supported means they keep those versions going
[18:50] <AlanBell> does not mean they drop in new versions with new features, just bug fixes
[18:50] <Jagst3r15> ones in main recieve new features tho?
[18:50] <AlanBell> no
[18:50] <Jagst3r15> how come firefox is same version as one for windows then
[18:50] <AlanBell> there are a very small number of packages with strong upstreams where new versions are updated
[18:51] <AlanBell> like really really small
[18:51] <Jagst3r15> oh like under 10? like that small
[18:52] <AlanBell> like I am not sure if it is anything other than firefox
[18:53] <Jagst3r15> maybe gedit and libreoffice?
[18:53] <AlanBell> not gedit
[18:53] <AlanBell> ati and nvidia binary drivers might get updates
[18:53] <Jagst3r15> oh itsjust coincidence that its the same version
[18:54] <Jagst3r15> because last version of gedit was early april and 12.04 was released in april
[18:54] <AlanBell> yeah
[18:54] <Jagst3r15> someone told me that it was firecly deabted about having everything with strong upstreams
[18:55] <Jagst3r15> but they decided on stable release instead of rolling
[18:56] <AlanBell> yes, however the development version of Ubuntu (Quantal at the moment) is basically a rolling release
[18:56] <Jagst3r15> until they freeze it?
[18:56] <AlanBell> they have changed things to make it more likely that it basically works every day
[18:56] <AlanBell> yeah, until freeze, then you can upgrade again to the latest crack
[18:56] <Jagst3r15> cuz dont they freeze it before they are gonna release stable
[18:57] <Jagst3r15> ah
[18:57] <Jagst3r15> i cant get past the fact that they dont update programs in software center
[18:57] <Jagst3r15> bothers me
[18:57] <AlanBell> final freeze is only a week or two before release (and it isn't *that* frozen)
[18:57] <AlanBell> depends how they are in software centre and who updates them
[18:57] <IdleOne> Ubuntu aims for stability that is why not every applications is the latest version
[18:58] <Jagst3r15> true but for something like chromium
[18:58] <Jagst3r15> its already a version behind
[18:58] <Jagst3r15> two years from now it will be really behind
[18:58] <Jagst3r15> if u use LTS
[18:58] <AlanBell> and works just fine
[18:59] <Jagst3r15> im not saying its a problem for me particularly
[18:59] <Jagst3r15> but for users who buy a laptop from dell like they do in inida now
[18:59] <IdleOne> security updates are added and they do point releases for LTS which means apps like chromium could be upgraded to newer versions
[18:59] <Jagst3r15> is it up to the package maintaner to release a newer version or do they hve to get canoinical approval
[19:00] <IdleOne> I am not sure how that gets decided
[19:00] <IdleOne> maybe AlanBell knows
[19:01] <Jagst3r15> again im not complaining, just trying to think whats best for ubuntu and users who dont know about this kind of stuff
[19:01] <AlanBell> it varies
[19:01] <AlanBell> for apps that go in via the app review board they can get updates whenever
[19:02] <Jagst3r15> whats an example of that
[19:02] <AlanBell> for stuff that is in the main repositories then updates sometimes go via debian first
[19:02] <AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/
[19:03] <Jagst3r15> doesnt debian have rolling release
[19:06] <Jagst3r15>  AlanBell im also asking because i see there are alot of paid apps
[19:06] <Jagst3r15> and ud think they would need new features
[19:36] <AlanBell> no, debian doesn't have rolling release, they have the same kind of strategy, but they only release when they feel like it, not on a regular basis. The stable version of Debian can be very old.
[19:37] <AlanBell> paid apps get updates I think, they are not in the main repositories
[21:35] <Pecker> Why does unity have so much overhead?