[11:51] <MohamedAlaa98> hello guys :)
[11:51] <head_victim> Evening MohamedAlaa98, here for the membership board meeting?
[11:51] <MohamedAlaa98> yep :)
[11:52] <head_victim> Ah yes, fourth on the list :)
[11:52] <head_victim> Few minutes to go yet, but feel free to warm up ;)
[11:53] <MohamedAlaa98> yeah, i feel that :)
[12:00] <head_victim> So do we have enough board members here tonight :)
[12:01] <MohamedAlaa98> I don't know
[12:01] <jamesh> hopefully :)
[12:03]  * micahg is here
[12:03] <MohamedAlaa98> welcome :)
[12:04] <MohamedAlaa98> Who will be the chair?
[12:04]  * cyphermox is here
[12:04] <cyphermox> MohamedAlaa98: since you're volunteering... ;)
[12:04] <head_victim> #startmeeting
[12:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 27 12:04:54 2012 UTC.  The chair is head_victim. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[12:04] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[12:05] <IdleOne> Good morning o/
[12:05] <e-jat> Hi
[12:05] <MohamedAlaa98> Good morning :)
[12:05] <head_victim> #chairs micahg cjohnston e-jat IdleOne
[12:05] <jaddi27> Good evening from Australia
[12:05] <head_victim> #chair micahg cjohnston e-jat IdleOne
[12:05] <meetingology> Current chairs: IdleOne cjohnston e-jat head_victim micahg
[12:07] <head_victim> #voters IdleOne cjohnston e-jat head_victim micahg Pendulum cyphermox
[12:07] <meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: e-jat
[12:07] <meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne Pendulum cjohnston cyphermox e-jat head_victim micahg
[12:08] <head_victim> So, please bear with us, we have a few new board members so it may take a little longer than normal but we'll get there :)
[12:09] <e-jat> :)
[12:09] <head_victim> Ok
[12:10] <head_victim> #meetingtopic 1200 UTC Membership Board Meeting
[12:10] <head_victim> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards#A12:00
[12:11] <head_victim> #topic gipsypyaesone - Membership Application
[12:12] <head_victim> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board meeting for 27/06/2012. The wiki page for the Review Boards are available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
[12:12] <head_victim> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
[12:12] <head_victim> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
[12:12] <head_victim> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
[12:12] <head_victim> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
[12:12] <head_victim> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
[12:13] <head_victim> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
[12:13] <head_victim> So it doesn't appear gypsyaesone is here, we might move along to the second applicant.
[12:14] <head_victim> #topic jaddi27 - Joel Addison's Membership Application
[12:14] <jaddi27> Hello. My name is Joel Addison. I am a software engineering student from Brisbane, Australia, who is very interested in Ubuntu and open source software. I have been a member of the Ubuntu Australian Team for several years now, and have helped out with various activities
[12:14] <head_victim> Joel, can you please introduce yourself to the board while we read over your application
[12:15] <jaddi27> My main contribution has been through translations, where I have completed around 50,000 strings for en_AU over the past few months along with sagaci
[12:16] <head_victim> As one of the people one the page as a testimonial I will say jaddi27 has been one of the more active members in the loco
[12:16] <cjohnston> just 50,000? ;-)  Thats about 50,000 more than me. heh
[12:16] <cjohnston> awesome work on translations
[12:16] <head_victim> cjohnston: another loco member did over 200k from memory ;)
[12:16] <cjohnston> wow
[12:16] <jaddi27> It is still about 150,000 less than sagaci
[12:17] <IdleOne> jaddi27: Why haven't you done more translation? :)
[12:17] <head_victim> jaddi27: so what are you plans for the next 6 months with regards to your Ubuntu work.
[12:17] <IdleOne> ignore my question it was silly anyway
[12:17] <jaddi27> IdleOne, I would have done a few more if Uni had not crept up on me over the past few weeks
[12:18] <jaddi27> Over the next 6 months I hope to continue with the translations, to keep the Q-series mostly up to date as the translations come in
[12:18] <jaddi27> I also plan to keep helping out in the loco, with chairing meetings and moderating the social media pages
[12:18] <Pendulum> jaddi27: You mention in your future goals that you'd like to get involved in bug fixing. Is this something you're already working on or something you're looking to start doing?
[12:19] <jaddi27> I am looking to start doing more program development and bug fixing now that I am more confident in my ability to use the languages often used in Ubuntu applications
[12:20] <jaddi27> I was thinking of entering the competition being run at the moment, but unfortunately did not have enough time with Uni and work
[12:20] <jaddi27> I would like to look at creating a calendar and todo app that can be integrated with the calendar in the time menu
[12:21] <head_victim> Ok, anymore questions?
[12:21] <IdleOne> I have to get going folks. Congrats to all the new members in advance. For the record I am +1 for jaddi27 to be an Ubuntu member..
[12:21] <cyphermox> jaddi27: feel free to ask me questui
[12:21] <head_victim> #vote Joel Addison's Ubuntu Membership Application
[12:21] <meetingology> Please vote on: Joel Addison's Ubuntu Membership Application
[12:21] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[12:21] <cyphermox> question if you get to working on that
[12:21] <IdleOne> +1
[12:21] <meetingology> +1 received from IdleOne
[12:21] <cjohnston> +1
[12:21] <meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
[12:21] <cyphermox> +1
[12:21] <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
[12:21] <ejat> +1
[12:21] <Pendulum> +1
[12:21] <meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
[12:22] <head_victim> +1 keep up the good work in the loco and I look forward to some bug squashing.
[12:22] <meetingology> +1 keep up the good work in the loco and I look forward to some bug squashing. received from head_victim
[12:22] <jaddi27> cyphermox, Ok. I will write a note to remember
[12:22] <micahg> +1
[12:22] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
[12:23] <head_victim> #endvote
[12:23] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Joel Addison's Ubuntu Membership Application
[12:23] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[12:23] <meetingology> Motion carried
[12:23] <sagaci> gg
[12:23] <head_victim> Congratulations jaddi27 you are now a Ubuntu Member :)
[12:23] <Pendulum> jaddi27: Congrats and welcome!
[12:23] <e-jat> congratulation jaddi27
[12:23] <jaddi27> Thank you very much!
[12:24] <MohamedAlaa98> congratulationa jaddi27 :)
[12:24] <e-jat> keep up to the good work
[12:24] <MohamedAlaa98> *congratulations
[12:24] <head_victim> #topic jamesh - James Henstridge's Membership Application
[12:24] <jamesh> Hi.  My name is James Henstridge, and my wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesHenstridge
[12:25] <jamesh> I've been working for Canonical since 2004, on various things: I did a bit of desktop work back in the first release, then worked on Launchpad, and now work on Ubuntu One
[12:26] <head_victim> Gday jamesh, very strong application but no testimonials. Is there anyone coming along in person to support?
[12:27] <jamesh> head_victim: I asked a few of my colleagues about testimonials, but it doesn't look like they got round to adding them :(
[12:27] <cjohnston> jamesh has done alot of great work on things that I use on a regular basis when it comes to sites like summit.ubuntu.com and loco.ubuntu.com... btw, jamesh django-openid-auth 0.4 was uploaded to Debian this morning!
[12:27] <jamesh> cjohnston: cool!
[12:28] <jamesh> outside of my work responsibilities, I've also been answering questions on the Ask Ubuntu site in my spare time, and do some other software development (some of which is packaged in Ubuntu)
[12:29] <jamesh> I've been teaching myself Debian packaging too, so plan to continue with that and maybe get a few of my other small projects in a state where they could be added to Ubuntu
[12:29] <e-jat> jamesh : aw3s0m3
[12:31] <head_victim> jamesh: while we're reading through pages, have you thought about getting involved in the loco at all?
[12:32] <jamesh> head_victim: I haven't really investigated it much.  I do attend PLUG meetings when I've got time, but that isn't strictly Ubuntu related
[12:33] <head_victim> jamesh: that's not a problem, we're not that exclusive :) I'm trying to get HUMBUG to join up and do things as well.
[12:33] <jamesh> I did give a talk there about some of the stuff we'd been doing in U1 last year
[12:33] <head_victim> Nice work, if you ever need materials for events give me a ping (I'm the team contact ;) ) and we can try to organise stuff to make it more fun.
[12:34] <jamesh> head_victim: I have mentioned to them that it might be worth trying to form some kind of affiliation though: there are a fair number of Ubuntu and Debian users there to help people
[12:34] <head_victim> jamesh: sounds good, if ever there are any events sing out and I can shoot you over some CDs, banners, etc.
[12:35] <jamesh> okay
[12:38] <head_victim> jamesh: basically your application is thorough and well documented, but we really do like to see some sort of testimonial on the wiki or in the meeting
[12:40] <head_victim> jamesh: if we put it off until the next meeting in 2 weeks do you think you could have some people add a note or email the mailing list with a bit of support?
[12:41] <jamesh> head_victim: I suppose so.  But is this a hard and fast procedural thing, or do you think the application isn't sufficient?
[12:42] <head_victim> It's more that it's a case of I can see what you've done but as someone in a different part of the community I dont' know what's involved in it
[12:43] <head_victim> So testimonials are a good way to show that others in your area of the community concur.
[12:43] <head_victim> As an example, I have no idea if 302 answers on Ask Ubuntu is good, I think it is but really, I've used that page twice so can't be sure.
[12:45] <jamesh> okay.  I can certainly chase up the people I asked again.  It wasn't clear that it was a hard and fast requirement.  I did include links to things like the bugzilla->LP migration that I hoped would be evidence of what I have done
[12:46] <Pendulum> jamesh: Part of it is that Ubuntu Membership is a community recognition. Testimonials help us see how you are part of the community/that others see you that way.
[12:47] <jamesh> Pendulum: okay.
[12:50] <head_victim> jamesh: ok so sorry to be a pain if we can get a few testimonials we'd probably all feel a lot more comfortable. We'll also work on making the documentation more clear to explain the logic behind it.
[12:50] <jamesh> head_victim: I just asked aquarius if he could give a short testimonial now, if that's okay
[12:51] <aquarius> hey, I'm happy to give a testimonal for jamesh (am I butting in?)
[12:51] <head_victim> aquarius: go for it
[12:51] <aquarius> James is excellent. :)
[12:51] <head_victim> aquarius: and you've worked with him on anything in particular or day to day?
[12:52] <aquarius> He's part of my team at Canonical, working on Ubuntu One
[12:52] <aquarius> but I've also seen and used his contributions to free software outside our working lives
[12:53] <aquarius> the PyGTK bindings were particularly useful!
[12:53] <head_victim> aquarius: so his contributions to the team and Ubuntu would meet the significant and sustained requirement for membership in your opinion?
[12:53] <aquarius> Absolutely, yes, in my opinion jamesh's contributions are both significant and sustained, and he qualifies for Ubuntu membership.
[12:54] <head_victim> aquarius: thanks so much for your help :)
[12:54] <aquarius> No problem. :)
[12:54] <e-jat> tq aquarius for your opinion and testimonial :)
[12:54] <cjohnston> thanks aquarius
[12:55] <dholbach> I'd echo aquarius' statement: James has been around since almost forever in the Ubuntu project, working on Launchpad, Ubuntu One and small pieces all over the place and he has always been super-helpful and is generally just a great guy! :)
[12:55] <head_victim> dholbach: greatly appreciate your input
[12:55] <dholbach> (sorry for jumping in here, but I had no idea jamesh was up for membership :-))
[12:55] <cyphermox> let's vote :)
[12:55] <Pendulum> aquarius, dholbach: thanks for speaking up!
[12:55] <e-jat> http://askubuntu.com/users/12469/james-henstridge can see jamesh contribution …
[12:55] <jamesh> thanks aquarius, dholbach!
[12:55] <head_victim> dholbach: please do, we were umming and arring as there were no testimonials now we have 3 so I think we can probably get this going now
[12:56] <dholbach> :-)
[12:56] <head_victim> #vote James Henstridge's Ubuntu Membership Application
[12:56] <meetingology> Please vote on: James Henstridge's Ubuntu Membership Application
[12:56] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[12:56] <cjohnston> +1
[12:56] <meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
[12:56] <Pendulum> +1
[12:56] <meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
[12:56] <cyphermox> +1
[12:56] <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
[12:56] <e-jat> +1
[12:56] <meetingology> +1 received from e-jat
[12:56] <head_victim> +1 Thorough application, nice work and good to see some support come through
[12:56] <meetingology> +1 Thorough application, nice work and good to see some support come through received from head_victim
[12:56] <penreturns> +1
[12:57]  * head_victim prods micahg 
[12:57] <micahg> +1 good testimonials, nice work over the life of Ubuntu
[12:57] <meetingology> +1 good testimonials, nice work over the life of Ubuntu received from micahg
[12:57] <head_victim> #endvote
[12:57] <meetingology> Voting ended on: James Henstridge's Ubuntu Membership Application
[12:57] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[12:57] <meetingology> Motion carried
[12:57] <e-jat> congratulation jamesh
[12:57] <jamesh> thanks.
[12:57] <head_victim> Congratulations jamesh sorry it was a little painful for a while there
[12:57] <Pendulum> jamesh: congrats!
[12:57] <head_victim> Please drop by the loco channel someday or join in the mailing list :)
[12:58] <aquarius> woo jamesh!
[12:58] <head_victim> dholbach, aquarius  thanks for dropping in when you did :)
[12:58] <dholbach> congratulations!
[12:58] <dholbach> :)
[13:00] <head_victim> #topic  MohamedAlaa98 Mohamed Alaa's Ubuntu Membership Application
[13:01] <head_victim> MohamedAlaa98: pelase introduce yourself while we read the application
[13:01] <MohamedAlaa98> Hi. My wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MohamedAlaa
[13:01] <MohamedAlaa98> and My launchpad profile is https://launchpad.net/~m-alaa8
[13:01] <MohamedAlaa98> My name is Mohamed Alaa, Egyptinan, 13 YO, Python programmer, Ubuntu translator, Bug triager, Community contributer, ubuntu-eg support squad, I give support on ubuntu-eg facebook group and I'm trying hard to spread ubuntu everywhere.
[13:02] <MohamedAlaa98> Outside community, i'm currently working on a Python project named indicator-prayer-times, as well as I have learned packaging python projects through launchpad nest-packaging.
[13:02] <head_victim> Well at 13 I wouldn't have even been able to work out how to sign the CoC so that's a good start
[13:02] <MohamedAlaa98> thanks :)
[13:02] <MohamedAlaa98> I respect and follow free software philosophy and I advocate open-source and free software whenever possible.
[13:02] <thelinuxer> hi I am here to testify for him, so please tell me when it's time to do so :)
[13:03] <head_victim> thelinuxer: so young MohamedAlaa98 is fairly active in the loco?
[13:03] <thelinuxer> yes he is
[13:03] <thelinuxer> I am actually amazed by his level of activity
[13:03] <thelinuxer> his answers and trouble shooting skills
[13:03] <e-jat> thelinuxer : im amaze too :)
[13:04] <head_victim> And it's been sustained for a while?
[13:04] <thelinuxer> and actually I think a good number of our group members ask him directly for help
[13:04] <thelinuxer> yes it's been sustained
[13:04] <thelinuxer> he also showed he's a good team player by working on a development project with another team member
[13:05] <thelinuxer> I really think he's talented and dedicated and I expect a lot from him in the future if he's encouraged to go to the right direction.
[13:05] <thelinuxer> I am done :)
[13:05] <head_victim> thelinuxer: It's good to see the -eg team taking him in and giving him direction :)
[13:05] <e-jat> thanks thelinuxer
[13:05] <MohamedAlaa98> thelinuxer: thank you for your support :)
[13:05] <thelinuxer> head_victim: we are trying :)
[13:05] <thelinuxer> e-jat: yw :)
[13:05] <thelinuxer> MohamedAlaa98: yw :)
[13:06] <Pendulum> MohamedAlaa98: what do you do outside of your Ubuntu work?
[13:06] <MohamedAlaa98> i'm currently working on a Python project named indicator-prayer-times
[13:07] <MohamedAlaa98> and now i'm learning bug fixing
[13:07] <Pendulum> MohamedAlaa98: Sorry for not being clear; I meant, when you're not on the computer?
[13:07] <cyphermox> MohamedAlaa98: on that subject, it would be very cool to see this shipping in Ubuntu soon; since it's in a PPA already and probably working fairly well, that would be a good step forward :)
[13:07] <MohamedAlaa98> ah, I play football, i love to draw
[13:07] <thelinuxer> cyphermox: and I am actually using his application right now
[13:08] <MohamedAlaa98> cyphermox: I hope that :)
[13:08]  * e-jat also looking the package will be in ubuntu universe
[13:09] <head_victim> #vote Mohamed Alaa's Ubuntu Membership Application
[13:09] <meetingology> Please vote on: Mohamed Alaa's Ubuntu Membership Application
[13:09] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[13:10] <e-jat> +1 good work and contributions ..
[13:10] <meetingology> +1 good work and contributions .. received from e-jat
[13:10] <Pendulum> +1 keep up the good work!
[13:10] <meetingology> +1 keep up the good work! received from Pendulum
[13:10] <cyphermox> +1
[13:10] <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
[13:10] <cjohnston> +1
[13:10] <meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
[13:10] <head_victim> +1 good to see your focus and drive being exerted in guided manners. It's a good sign of both the loco and yourself.
[13:10] <meetingology> +1 good to see your focus and drive being exerted in guided manners. It's a good sign of both the loco and yourself. received from head_victim
[13:10] <micahg> +1
[13:10] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
[13:10] <head_victim> #endvote
[13:10] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Mohamed Alaa's Ubuntu Membership Application
[13:10] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[13:10] <meetingology> Motion carried
[13:11] <e-jat> congrate MohamedAlaa98
[13:11] <thelinuxer> congrats MohamedAlaa98 :)
[13:11] <head_victim> Congratulations MohamedAlaa98 :)
[13:11] <Pendulum> MohamedAlaa98: congrats and welcome!
[13:11] <MohamedAlaa98> e-jat Pendulum cyphermox cjohnston head_victim Thank you all :)
[13:11] <MohamedAlaa98> Pendulum: thank you :)
[13:11] <e-jat> yw
[13:12] <MohamedAlaa98> thank you all :)
[13:12] <MohamedAlaa98> thank you all for your support :)
[13:13] <e-jat> keep up the good work !
[13:13] <MohamedAlaa98> e-jat: Sure!
[13:13] <head_victim> Thanks everyone to showing, it's good to see the first 1200 UTC board meeting nearly stayed within time ;)
[13:14] <e-jat> thanks to all board members
[13:14] <jamesh> thanks everyone!
[13:16] <head_victim> #endmeeting
[13:16] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun 27 13:16:48 2012 UTC.
[13:16] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-27-12.04.moin.txt
[13:16] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-27-12.04.html
[13:16] <ejat> thanks everyone
[13:19] <jaddi27> head_victim, Thanks for running the meeting
[15:01]  * xnox 0/
[15:01] <infinity> \o
[15:01]  * slangasek waves
[15:01]  * stgraber waves
[15:01] <infinity> xnox: Your head is enormous.
[15:02] <jodh> o/
[15:02] <ev> hi
[15:02] <doko> slangasek, I'd like to go first, leaving in 20min
[15:02] <slangasek> infinity: also he's a cyclops
[15:02] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 27 15:02:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:02] <slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
[15:02] <slangasek> doko: go ahead
[15:03] <doko> - python 3.3.0 beta1 work (upstreaming patches, updating libffi, packaging)
[15:03] <doko> - wip: python3.3 cross build
[15:03] <doko> - help wanted: why no output when building the extension modules
[15:03] <doko> - gcc updates, applied temporary work around to fix std::list ABI incompatibility
[15:03] <doko> - sent another gcc-multiarch update upstream, forwarded arm patches
[15:03] <doko> - started reworking pysmbc python3, based on upstream feedback
[15:03] <doko> - packaged openjdk-6 security update/release
[15:04] <slangasek> doko: can you expand on the help wanted, give us a pointer to where it is you're expecting output and not seeing it?
[15:04] <doko> ..
[15:04] <doko> slangasek, chatting with barry
[15:04] <slangasek> ok
[15:04]  * barry looked at that "no output when building ext modules" back in the 2.6-ish time frame iirc.  at the time, i had no clue what's going on there :(
[15:05] <slangasek> is the std::list temporary work-around consistent with what upstream is planning for 4.7.2?
[15:05] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
[15:05] <slangasek> jodh stokachu ogra bdmurray xnox doko barry slangasek cjwatson ev stgraber infinity
[15:05] <slangasek> jodh: your turn next
[15:05] <doko> I didn't get any feedback from upstream ... it's something planned, but it got quiet again
[15:05] <jodh> * boot/upstart: stateful re-exec support:
[15:05] <jodh>   - lots of code refactoring to KISS ;)
[15:05] <jodh>   - lots of progress on JobClass serialisation/deserialisation.
[15:05] <jodh>   - working on breaking circular references between objects.
[15:05] <barry> slangasek: there's no bug # and it doesn't break the build, but it's sure annoying
[15:05] <jodh> * misc: Sick Monday.
[15:05] <jodh> 𝆲
[15:05] <jodh>  
[15:06] <stokachu> jodh: does that mean you are done?
[15:06] <stokachu> i cant tell what that is :P
[15:06] <jodh> stokachu: sliding glissando :)
[15:06] <stokachu> ahh
[15:06] <stokachu> *** INPROGRESS http://pad.lv/578536
[15:06] <stokachu>     DEADLINE: <2012-06-27 Thu> SCHEDULED: <2012-06-26 Tue>
[15:06] <stokachu>     Backported 2 patches that address hanging automount and listing
[15:07] <cjwatson> Or U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER as it came through here ...
[15:07] <stokachu>     stale mount points in /proc/mounts during a re-read of map entries,
[15:07] <stokachu> commits here http://is.gd/RpIFyQ, waiting OP testing results.
[15:07] <stokachu> *** TODO http://pad.lv/977952
[15:07] <stokachu>     DEADLINE: <2012-07-06 Wed> SCHEDULED: <2012-06-26 Tue>
[15:07] <stokachu> Blocked on http://pad.lv/977947 being completed.
[15:07] <stokachu> *** http://pad.lv/977964 [50%]
[15:07] <stokachu> **** DONE SRU template
[15:07] <stokachu> **** TODO needs debdiff for precise.
[15:07] <stokachu>      DEADLINE: <2012-06-27 Wed> SCHEDULED: <2012-06-22 Fri>
[15:07] <stokachu> ...
[15:07] <stokachu> org-mode rules btw
[15:07] <jodh> stokachu: +1000
[15:07] <barry> stokachu: that is one of the tops on my list to investigate
[15:07]  * xnox we can tell
[15:08] <stokachu> xnox: lol :P
[15:08] <jodh> stokachu: you tried the mobile versions too?
[15:08] <xnox> stokachu: export to text buffer may format it slightly nicer with C-c a
[15:08] <stokachu> jodh: not yet
[15:08]  * xnox or was it C-c C-e a
[15:08] <jodh> stokachu: the Android version can sync using U1!
[15:08] <stokachu> xnox: ok ill try that next, still learning everything
[15:08] <stokachu> jodh: love it!
[15:09] <jodh> stokachu: oh yeah.
[15:09] <stokachu> jodh: there are some functions i gotta write to not load inline images etc
[15:09] <stokachu> i think that crashes on android
[15:09] <jodh> stokachu: images? I just do text :)
[15:09] <barry> jodh: is that MobileOrg perhaps? (iOS)
[15:09] <xnox> emacs24 still needs chasing up, btw.
[15:09] <stokachu> jodh: ditta is awesome
[15:09] <stokachu> for charts etc
[15:10] <slangasek> stokachu: so as far as blocking on 977947, I'm not aware that anyone else is working on this - do you intend to take this up to unblock yourself?
[15:10] <jodh> barry: the iOS version isn't quite as feature-ful (doesn't work with U1 for example), but is slicker.
[15:10] <stokachu> slangasek: yea im planing on working both libonobo bugs
[15:10] <slangasek> stokachu: ok cool
[15:10] <barry> jodh: free as in beer and speech! :)
[15:10] <xnox> barry: originally iOS was the first one, but now android version overtook in feature
[15:10] <stokachu> slangasek: ill have more next week once we do the point release meeting tomorrow
[15:10] <slangasek> stokachu: I've included some general notes on the bug regarding Tom's patch; just ask if you have questions
[15:10] <slangasek> ogra_: your turn
[15:11] <ogra_> done:
[15:11] <ogra_> * uploaded some merges
[15:11] <ogra_> * got ac100 images building again
[15:11] <ogra_> * switched the arm world to live images (omap omap4 and mx5)
[15:11] <ogra_> * did set foundations-q-drop-preinst-images to implemented
[15:11] <ogra_> todone:
[15:11] <ogra_> * uploaded some merges
[15:11] <ogra_> * got ac100 images building again
[15:11] <ogra_> * switched the arm world to live images (omap omap4 and mx5)
[15:11] <ogra_> * did set foundations-q-drop-preinst-images to implemented
[15:11]  * barry installs
[15:11] <ogra_> todo:
[15:11] <ogra_> * start on foundations-q-hwpack-integration
[15:11] <ogra_> * start taking a look at the QA stuff for arm in preparation of the QA sprint end of the month
[15:11] <ogra_> do:
[15:11] <slangasek> "todone"? :)
[15:11] <ogra_> * start on foundations-q-hwpack-integration
[15:11] <ogra_> * start taking a look at the QA stuff for arm in preparation of the QA sprint end of the month
[15:11] <jodh> xnox: there seem to be 2 android versions too :)
[15:11] <ogra_> ..
[15:11] <ogra_> err
[15:11] <ogra_> isgnore everything after do:
[15:11] <ogra_> thats weird
[15:11] <slangasek> ahh, double-paste one inside the other :)
[15:11] <ogra_> yeah
[15:12] <ogra_> funnily i have the marked text in the terminal in front of me
[15:12] <ogra_> without such an issue
[15:12] <ogra_> and can paste properly
[15:12] <bdmurray> wrote username and password scrubber for apt sources files in apt-clone
[15:12] <bdmurray> investigation into duplicates of bug 541595
[15:12] <bdmurray> modified bug pattern for bug 541595 to specify an apt version to reduce false duplicates
[15:12] <bdmurray> removal of bug patterns for fixed bugs
[15:12] <bdmurray> updated bug pattern checker to also check the properties of duplicates and see if a package version is specified
[15:12] <bdmurray> work on arsenal to find bug tasks that have been reopened
[15:12] <bdmurray> set up a regression tagged bug subscription and sent instructions to SRU team
[15:12] <bdmurray> arsenal-cron mailing list request, setup and configuration
[15:12] <bdmurray> ⌁ done ⌁
[15:12] <slangasek> ogra_: and I saw your bug report this morning about 'quiet splash' being missing from the armhf live image boot options; are you blocked on someone else to fix that?
[15:13] <ogra_> slangasek, nope, minro fix in debian-cd
[15:13] <ogra_> *minor
[15:13] <slangasek> ok
[15:13]  * jodh stands back to avoid bdmurrays sparks.
[15:13] <ogra_> i'm just to busy with the images atm, i'll do it after A2
[15:13] <ogra_> (the bug was just a todo item actually)
[15:14] <stokachu> barry: http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html
[15:14] <stokachu> barry: my favorite reference for org-mode
[15:14] <slangasek> ogra_: ack
[15:14] <barry> stokachu: thanks!  i know what i'm doing tonight :)
[15:15] <infinity> barry: You wild man, you.
[15:15] <slangasek> xnox:
[15:15] <xnox> * sent cleaned up patch for libpeas to debian
[15:15] <xnox> * SRU mdadm, e2fsprogs + writing test cases
[15:15] <xnox> * upload autofs merge, and updates to mdadm, btrfs-tools (patches submitted to debian)
[15:15] <xnox> * added testcase to dpkg bug 1015567 and added further TODO items
[15:15] <xnox> * alpha 2 RAID testing (VM and bare metal)
[15:15] <xnox> * continuing work on ubiquity-lvm/luks
[15:15] <xnox> ǝnop
[15:15] <infinity> xnox: s/n/u/
[15:15] <slangasek> don't you mean əuop?
[15:16]  * xnox failed with upside-down unicode characters
[15:16] <infinity> ǝuop
[15:16]  * infinity isn't sure which char slangasek is using for that bloated ə
[15:16] <barry> more discussion w/upstream about xapian py3; currently there are a couple of competing opinions :/ with no clear direction yet.  finished libpeas py3. lots of random py3 porting consultations with various folks.  bug 1013490; bug 1016170 (still debugging). sponsored python3-pam port. reviewed unattended-upgrade py3 port.  looked at command-not-found for py3, but needs mvo to upload.  worked on twisted py3 buildbot (waiting on at least
[15:16] <barry> one more outgoing port hole).  prepped python-mode 6.0.9 for debian but will probably wait until 6.0.10 is released.  todo: more work on xapian py3.  done.
[15:16] <cjwatson> infinity: U+0259 LATIN SMALL LETTER SCHWA
[15:17] <stokachu> Welcome to RenegadeBBS
[15:17] <infinity> cjwatson: Except not small at all in the font I'm using.  xnox's was the right size.  Weird.
[15:17]  * ogra_ always wondered why unicode does not have a <blink> 
[15:17] <ogra_> tag
[15:19]  * slangasek яesponds to xnox's failed upside-down unicode by scatteяing inappяopяiate cyяillic chaяacteяs thяoughout
[15:19]  * xnox likes
[15:19] <ogra_> lol
[15:19] <slangasek>  * Secure Boot
[15:19] <slangasek>  * SRU team work - learning that regression-* tags are not being used well, so doing some turfing
[15:19] <slangasek>   * and TB discussions about streamlining the MRE process for SRUs
[15:19] <slangasek> (done)
[15:19] <slangasek>  * getting a semblance of accuracy on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[15:19] <slangasek>  * troubleshooting regression in 802.11n behavior in quantal kernel with my Intel wireless (bug #1015834)
[15:19]  * mvo hugs barry for the xapian work, even if the upstream path is not quite clear yet
[15:20] <slangasek> cjwatson:
[15:20] <ogra_> pfft, upstreams ...
[15:20] <barry> mvo: btw, if you have any opinions on str v bytes: http://trac.xapian.org/ticket/346
[15:20] <cjwatson> UEFI:
[15:20] <cjwatson>  * Secure boot planning and discussion.
[15:20] <cjwatson>  * Further work on efilinux menu patch; v2 out for review.
[15:20] <cjwatson>  * Pushed up Launchpad custom-uefi branch for review.  Various comments which I'm attempting to address.
[15:20] <cjwatson> Launchpad:
[15:21] <cjwatson>  * Remove change-override.py from Launchpad, now that there's an API replacement.
[15:21] <cjwatson>  * Copy custom uploads when copying debian-installer/update-manager uploads between pockets.
[15:21] <cjwatson>  * Discussed ddtp-tarball uploads with Michael.  These have now been rearranged so that we don't need a dodgy archiveuploader back door to make them work, and so that copies should be possible shortly.
[15:21] <cjwatson>  * Finished code to unrestrict librarian files when using Archive.copyPackage to copy from private PPAs.  This is now confirmed to work for the security team, obsoleting unembargo-package.py.
[15:21] <cjwatson> Miscellaneous:
[15:21] <cjwatson>  * Various syncs and merges.
[15:21] <cjwatson>  * Downgrade new debootstrap warning which always occurs on Ubuntu to info message (bug 1017398).
[15:21] <cjwatson>  * Fix missing hid-generic in initramfs (bug 1017991).
[15:21] <cjwatson> ¶
[15:21] <mvo> cjwatson: \o/ for ddtp copies
[15:21] <ev> - Very short week. Holiday on Thursday and Friday. Conference on Tuesday.
[15:21] <ev> - More work on the Daisy duplicates database backend for Apport.
[15:21] <ev> - Finished up the recoverable errors API branch of apport, submitted a merge
[15:21] <ev>   request. Martin echoed the earlier statements of Ted: DBus is heavyweight
[15:21] <ev>   for this. I will be discussing alternatives with him in the MP:
[15:21] <ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/recoverable-errors/+merge/111840
[15:21] <ev> - Work refactoring the error reports from application hangs branch after
[15:21] <ev>   receiving feedback from Martin:
[15:21] <ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/reports-from-hangs/+merge/111179
[15:21] <ev> - Started investigating options for the "ideal" line on the front of
[15:21] <ev>   http://errors.ubuntu.com. This will show the average number of crashes for
[15:21] <ev>   users who had the most recent version of the application that crashed
[15:21] <ev>   installed (and its dependencies). Apport already has something like this
[15:21] <ev>   built in, but it writes it as a translated string to the report file and
[15:21] <ev>   only accounts for whether the version installed is the most recent version
[15:21] <ev>   in the cache. Cassandra is not really built for tons of small random reads,
[15:21] <ev>   so I may have to involve Redis or Memcached. I'm going to talk to Rob and
[15:22] <ev>   James Troup about it once I've done a bit more research. Suggestions always
[15:22] <ev>   welcome.
[15:22] <ev> - Attended the Software Experts Summit in London. Notes forthcoming, but the
[15:22] <ev>   big takeaway was write software to fail. There was an excellent talk by the
[15:22] <ev>   security lead on Bing where he detailed just how fault tolerant their entire
[15:22] <ev>   system is. Whole racks of computers can disappear and it will happily chug
[15:22] <cjwatson> mvo: I'll probably land it after custom-uefi, though, as the branches are rather overlapping
[15:22] <ev>   along (and indeed they effectively weld shut entire shipping crates of
[15:22] <ev>   racks). He also stressed when working in a system where realtime feedback is
[15:22] <ev>   possible to focus more on metrics and real usage of the system than unit
[15:22] <ev>   tests. Unit tests are only an approximation of how the system might be used.
[15:22] <ev>   They'll rarely catch the things you don't anticipate.  I'll try to better
[15:22] <ev>   explain this and Microsoft's approach in my trip report.
[15:22] <ev> (done)
[15:22] <infinity> ev: "very short week" shouldn't fill my scrollback buffer.  Just sayin'.
[15:22] <ogra_> oh, was a short week then
[15:22] <stgraber> right, "very short week", that only used half of my screen vertical space ;)
[15:22] <ev> hahahahaha, I love you all
[15:22] <stokachu> LOL
[15:23] <stgraber> Short week, Monday was a public holiday (Quebec day), next Monday is one too (Canada day).
[15:23] <stgraber> - Containers
[15:23] <stgraber>  - Some more work on python3-lxc, available for testing in ppa:stgraber/experimental
[15:23] <stgraber>  - Helped testing the current SRU, preparing the next one
[15:23] <stgraber>  - Pushed some more bugfixes and apparmor improvements to quantal.
[15:23] <stgraber>  - Still need some more work on memory/error management in my C code...
[15:23] <stgraber> - ISO tracker
[15:23] <stgraber>  - Minor UI fix in preparation for alpha-2. Landed on Friday.
[15:23] <stgraber> - Networking
[15:23] <stgraber>  - Prepared a batch of network related updates: isc-dhcp, ifupdown, netbase, resolvconf
[15:23] <stgraber>  - Went through the network related bug lists, closed a few dozen bugs so far, triaging the
[15:23] <stgraber>    rest. Still have to go through 4-5 packages then will try to fix as many of these bugs
[15:23] <stgraber>    before uploading the new packages to Quantal.
[15:23] <stgraber> - Other
[15:23] <stgraber>  - Alpha-2 related work (product changes on ISO tracker, Edubuntu, ...)
[15:23] <stgraber> - TODO this week
[15:23] <stgraber>  - Prepare tomorrow's SRU team meeting (go through bug lists)
[15:23] <stgraber>  - Continue working on the network packages, hoping to have all of them uploaded on Thursday/Friday.
[15:23] <stgraber>  - Some more LXC work, testing the new hooks that Serge added, rebasing the API branch on that.
[15:23] <stgraber>  - Go through the pending-sru and help for these that are stuck on verification-needed
[15:23] <stgraber> (DONE)
[15:24] <slangasek> I think I'm going to celebrate Oregon Day next week
[15:24] <slangasek> just 'cause
[15:24] <slangasek> maybe Portland Day while I'm at it
[15:24] <stokachu> hah
[15:24] <infinity> There's such a thing as Oregon Day?
[15:24] <xnox> stgraber: there will be massive Canada Day celebrations in London at Trafalgar Square ;-)
[15:24] <ogra_> onyl in portland
[15:24] <cjwatson> stgraber: Which reminds me, I started trying to verify the ubiquity precise-proposed bug there, but had to make the livefses use -proposed first :-)  I'll have another go
[15:24] <slangasek> infinity: well there's a Quebec Day, and I don't see what's so special about them
[15:25] <barry> only on portlandia?
[15:25] <slangasek> so I figure that means I get a day too ;)
[15:25] <infinity> slangasek: Syrup.
[15:25]  * xnox thinks to go there for some maple syrup 
[15:25] <slangasek> vermont has syrup
[15:25] <ogra_> but but... they speak french in an english speking country
[15:25] <infinity> slangasek: Vermont also has a bunch of French Canadians.  Coincidence?
[15:25] <infinity> And loggers.
[15:25] <ev> xnox: I'm sooooo tempted to work the crowd introducing myself to all the "Americans"
[15:25] <infinity> And flannel.
[15:25] <infinity> Vermont is basically Quebec.
[15:25] <slangasek> yes, entirely a coincidence
[15:25] <infinity> ⸘
[15:25] <infinity> This week:
[15:25] <infinity>  - A lot of PlusOneMaint-related fixing and transitioning and such
[15:25] <infinity>  - Caught up on a bunch of TILM merges and sync
[15:25] <infinity>  - Looking into britney2 for our proposed->release migration purposes
[15:25] <infinity>  - Spent some over the weekend looking into armel/mono and armel toolchain issues
[15:25] <infinity>  - Threw some help at Alpha2 ubuntustudio issues, and respins
[15:26] <infinity> Next week:
[15:26] <infinity>  - Should be working almost exclusively on making britney do useful things
[15:26] <infinity> ‽
[15:26] <cjwatson> Yay
[15:26] <infinity> "some over the weekend"... I English good.
[15:26] <slangasek> infinity: it's legal in Vermont to have English-only road signs, so no, it's not Quebec ;)
[15:27] <highvoltage> heh
[15:27] <stgraber> slangasek: hehe, Quebec is pretty much a separate country, at least, quite a lot of people like to think it's ;)
[15:27] <infinity> slangasek: Meh.  Flannel and syrup and duck-sounding accents.
[15:27] <slangasek> stgraber: that's what I'm sayin', Portland should also have its own recognized holiday ;)
[15:27] <infinity> slangasek: The rest is minor implementation details.
[15:27] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[15:27] <stgraber> slangasek: ;)
[15:27] <stokachu> http://pad.lv/872824
[15:27] <stgraber> oh, that's my bug isn't it? :)
[15:27] <stokachu> stgraber: there is a patch (apparently not ideal workaround)
[15:28] <stokachu> was curious if this is something we will still consider for 12.04.1 (could potentionally be a discussion for tom)
[15:28] <stokachu> or even consider for 12.10
[15:28] <stgraber> well, it's a universe package...
[15:29] <cjwatson> Argh, why are the precise livefses still lacking -proposed
[15:29] <stgraber> it's also not completely clear whether that patch alone would work or if you need to take my package of the latest upstream + that patch
[15:29] <cjwatson> Oh God, I'm an idiot
[15:29] <cjwatson> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-o-live-build
[15:29] <cjwatson> "[cjwatson] Add a way to enable proposed updates: TODO"
[15:29] <cjwatson> I never did do that
[15:30] <stgraber> hehe :)
[15:30] <infinity> cjwatson: Didn't this come up the last time we discussed it, too?
[15:30] <cjwatson> Possibly
[15:30] <infinity> cjwatson: Like, in Oakland?
[15:30] <stokachu> stgraber: do i need to actually setup vpn to reproduce or can i just attempt the client side through NM
[15:30] <cjwatson> So I guess I'd better fix that forthwith
[15:30] <infinity> cjwatson: I notice it every time I look at BuildLiveCD.  And then promptly do nothing about it.  You can totally blame me.
[15:31] <slangasek> stgraber, stokachu: "it's a universe package" - meaning the fix isn't tied to the 12.04.1 image releases
[15:31] <cjwatson> infinity: I always blame you
[15:31] <stgraber> stokachu: last I tried, it'd explode before it'd start talking to the server
[15:31] <slangasek> it certainly looks appropriate for an SRU anyway
[15:31] <stokachu> slangasek: should i remove the 12.04.1 milestone
[15:31] <stgraber> stokachu: I think -updates would be more appropriate
[15:32] <slangasek> stokachu: I am not so interested in the accounting of the milestones - if you intend it to be worked on in that timeframe, .2 is fine for the milestone target
[15:32] <stokachu> stgraber: ok ill run the tests myself and see targetted precise-updates milestone
[15:32] <infinity> cjwatson: That's fair.
[15:32] <slangasek> stokachu, stgraber: do you have what you need for that bug, then?
[15:33] <stokachu> slangasek: yea i think so
[15:33] <slangasek> ok
[15:33] <slangasek> other bugs?
[15:33] <stgraber> stokachu: you probably should talk with cyphermox about that bug (if you haven't already) as he's the NetworkManager maintainer. I'm happy to help testing (as I have the server side)
[15:33] <bdmurray> not from me
[15:33] <stokachu> slangasek: im targetting these mainly for setting expectations to higher power :D
[15:33] <stgraber> stokachu: but we have worse NetworkManager bugs to fix first (for packages that are actually in main ;))
[15:34] <slangasek> stokachu: any more bugs on your side that need discussing?
[15:34] <stokachu> slangasek: we're good
[15:34] <slangasek> bug #1017001
[15:35] <slangasek> so this cropped up over the weekend and had me worrying that we have some kind of regression in lucid->precise upgradability
[15:35] <slangasek> because there were a pair of them reported within 24h of each other
[15:35] <slangasek> but I haven't seen more, so now I just think instead that we have latent problems with lucid->precise upgradability :/
[15:36]  * cyphermox likes reading Foundations team meeting logs
[15:36] <slangasek> something seems to be going wrong with setup of packages with circular dependencies... I have no idea why
[15:36] <stgraber> slangasek: the trace looks almost identical to bug 937196, I think I mentioned it on IRC the other day, can't remember if you saw that
[15:36] <slangasek> anyone else have an idea what's going on here?
[15:37] <slangasek> stgraber: I saw the comment, yeah - I think there was something that left me unconvinced they were the same bug, let me see
[15:38] <slangasek> yeah, it may be the same bug indeed
[15:38] <slangasek> but is this an apt bug or a dpkg bug?
[15:38]  * doko is leaving now
[15:38]  * slangasek waves to doko
[15:38] <stgraber> not sure, I vaguely rmeember the other bug being in "can't reproduce, needs mvo" state...
[15:38] <slangasek> thanks
[15:38] <infinity> dpkg: error processing dpkg (--configure):
[15:38] <infinity>  package dpkg is already installed and configured
[15:38] <infinity> ^--- Cute
[15:38] <cjwatson> That's usually an apt bug
[15:39] <slangasek> well, that part is secondary
[15:39] <cjwatson> i.e. it's failed to correctly predict the state
[15:39] <slangasek> the root error is dpkg failing to configure ifupdown because upstart and initscripts aren't configured yet, but I believe there's a legitimate circular dependency there?
[15:40] <cjwatson> (But if this is lucid's apt — I haven't looked — then that was known to have some such bugs I think)
[15:40] <slangasek> it's the release-upgrader apt
[15:40] <cjwatson> hm
[15:40] <infinity> slangasek: If friendly-recovery wasn't breaking upstart, we wouldn't be in this situation.
[15:41] <slangasek> infinity: we also wouldn't be in the situation if the package manager wasn't buggy, and I think we get more bang for our buck if we fix that ;)
[15:41] <infinity> slangasek: Yeah, yeah. ;)
[15:41] <xnox> i wonder if changing breaks -> conflicts would improve the situation.
[15:41] <xnox> cause then the upstart stuff should be done before friendly recovery
[15:41] <slangasek> because it's the same bug in 937196 and 1017001, but *not* the same set of packages
[15:41] <slangasek> xnox: by definition, no
[15:41] <xnox> ok
[15:42] <slangasek> we really don't want to permute the package relationships to try to work around this - that's like chasing lumps in wallpaper
[15:42] <slangasek> but for my part I'm not sure if this is even an apt bug or a dpkg bug
[15:43] <slangasek> we may have to wait until we can safely keep apt-clone attachments in LP before we can make headway
[15:43] <infinity> slangasek: Depends on how many dpkg runs there are here.
[15:43] <slangasek> yeah, and I'm not sure we have enough info in the bug report to say that
[15:43] <infinity> slangasek: Sure you do.  Count the "reading database" bits.
[15:44] <slangasek> I wasn't aware that was a 1:1 mapping to dpkg calls?
[15:44] <infinity> slangasek: Well, at one point in time, it used to be.  Perhaps not anymore.
[15:44] <slangasek> anyway, even if we count the dpkg calls that doesn't tell us whether dpkg was asked to configure all the packages in one go
[15:44] <slangasek> we only see the package it *failed* to configure
[15:44]  * infinity nods.
[15:45] <slangasek> mvo: ^^ if you're around and have any ideas about how we can debug this without an apt clone file, that would be welcome :)
[15:46] <bdmurray> slangasek: what bug number?
[15:46] <slangasek> in the meantime, doesn't sound like anybody else has any brilliant ideas for solving it
[15:46] <cjwatson> It's a 1:1 mapping to ensure_allinstfiles_available calls, which I think winds up being more or less unpack and remove
[15:46] <slangasek> bdmurray: bug #1017001 + bug #937196
[15:46] <mvo> slangasek: uh, sorry, which bug was that?
[15:46] <infinity> mvo: Look up.
[15:46] <mvo> bug #937196 ?
[15:46]  * infinity nods.
[15:47] <slangasek> mvo: bug #1017001, bug #937196: lucid release-upgrader apt  + dpkg are somehow failing to configure packages when there's a dependency loop
[15:47] <slangasek> but it's not *generally* reproducible
[15:47] <mvo> hrm
[15:48] <slangasek> when we get to the bottom of it, we should probably backport to precise apt as well so that this doesn't still hit us for p->t upgrades
[15:48]  * infinity isn't sure 937196 relates specifically to loops at all, but rather just that a deconfigured/broken package didn't then get configured before its deps.  Do we know definitively that this is the result of a loop?
[15:48] <slangasek> infinity: I know that there is a loop, and I don't see any other cases of apt doing out-of-order configuration
[15:49] <infinity> slangasek: Oh!
[15:49] <slangasek> initscripts Depends: upstart Provides: upstart-job Depends: initscripts, ifupdown Depends: upstart-job, initscripts
[15:49] <infinity> slangasek: Right, upstart/initscripts.
[15:50] <slangasek> so this one's a double circular dep
[15:50] <slangasek> but the other bug is a single circular dep between libc6:i386 and libgcc1:i386
[15:50] <infinity> slangasek: I bet that's actually completely deterministic, based on the "postinst versus no-postinst" loop-breaking rule.
[15:50] <infinity> Unless initscripts has a postinst.
[15:50] <slangasek> infinity: it's not failing to run the maintainer scripts, it's declaring that the dependencies aren't satisfied
[15:50]  * infinity looks.
[15:51] <slangasek> apt is supposed to be asking dpkg to configure them as a set
[15:51] <slangasek> dpkg is supposed to sort out which one to configure first based on its own internal rules
[15:51] <slangasek> and even if they all have postinsts, dpkg is supposed to play russian roulette
[15:51] <infinity> Yeah, and they do.
[15:51] <infinity> So nevermind deterministic.
[15:52] <slangasek> and bear in mind that this is only reproducible for a relatively small percentage of users, and is *not* reproducible with any of the upgrade profiles being used in jenkins
[15:52] <infinity> And apt may be asking dpkg to do them as a set, it's hard to tell from the log.
[15:52]  * slangasek nods
[15:52] <infinity> It clearly didn't unpack/deconfigure as a set, but...
[15:52] <slangasek> ok, I think we should take this offline, we've squeezed as much out of it as we can in this meeting
[15:52] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:52] <slangasek> AOB?
[15:53]  * mvo read them now
[15:54] <infinity> We seem rather AOBless.
[15:54] <ogra_> AOBlessed ?
[15:55] <slangasek> yep, seems so
[15:55] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:55] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun 27 15:55:24 2012 UTC.
[15:55] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-27-15.02.moin.txt
[15:55] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-27-15.02.html
[15:55] <slangasek> thanks all :)
[15:55] <ogra_> thanks !
[15:55] <barry> thanks!
[15:55] <xnox> thanks
[15:56] <jodh> thanks!
[16:00] <stgraber> thanks!
[16:11] <stokachu> stgraber: do you mind accepting my nominations for bug #520386
[16:13] <stgraber> stokachu: done
[16:14] <stokachu> stgraber: sweet thanks
[18:03] <roaksoax>  /win 3