[06:54] <popey> mng
[06:55] <Azelphur> pfft morning, I havn't slept yet
[07:07] <DJones> Morning
[07:11] <diplo> Morning all
[07:48] <dwatkins> that's it, the apocalypse has begun - Scotland will be underwater in a day.
[07:49] <popey> Yay! Maybe we'll stop hearing them bleat on about devolution :)
[07:49] <dwatkins> I wouldn't complain if that quietly disappeared, popey
[07:50] <dwatkins> It makes no sense to me, why peel-off as a separate country when you don't have many resources aside from oil and tourism...
[07:50] <dwatkins> anyhoo, phone rings
[07:50] <dwatkins> ...and it was a wrong number
[07:51] <dwatkins> sometimes I get calls from people in switzerland wondering where their order of whiskey has gotten to, as the customer services number is similar to our number for some alcohol delivery company.
[07:55] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:03] <DJones> How well do Epson printers work with ubuntu, just looking at getting an epson stylus sx535wd, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1919803&highlight=epson+stylus suggests it may not be 100% working
[08:15] <mattt> morning all
[08:16]  * mattt fist pumps at the thought of friday
[08:30] <jacobw> morning
[08:50] <bigcalm> Is there any point in updating the kernel image on a bytemark vm is the vm doesn't use them?
[08:53] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :-D
[08:54] <bigcalm> Yay Friday \o/
[08:56] <christel> FRIDAY
[08:56] <christel> :D:D:D:DD:D
[08:57] <bigcalm> christel: how are you my dear?
[08:57] <christel> i am WELL
[08:59] <bigcalm> Ready to get wet?
[08:59] <christel> no :(
[09:02] <diplo> heh
[09:03]  * AlanBell has full confidence in christel's plumbing ability
[09:07] <kvarley> Anybody know how I can configure this (https://gtk-apps.org/content/show.php/ctrlwm?content=114565) to act like the snapping in Ubuntu 12.04? I can't seem to get it to work.
[09:10] <bigcalm> Time to tinker with the home server :)
[09:28] <brobostigon> good morning eveyrone.
[09:30] <bigcalm> I freaking rock!
[09:30] <bigcalm> Woo me!
[09:31] <brobostigon> \o/
[09:31] <bigcalm> brobostigon: I agree
[09:31] <pyshispythonbash> I want to install debain
[09:31] <pyshispythonbash> debian *
[09:31] <brobostigon> bigcalm: what happened then?
[09:31] <pyshispythonbash> I am going to use CDs
[09:31] <pyshispythonbash> BUT
[09:31] <bigcalm> pyshispythonbash: try a #debian channel?
[09:31] <pyshispythonbash> do I use one CD?
[09:32] <brobostigon> pyshispythonbash: you should be fine, for the basics, with the first two.
[09:32] <brobostigon> if not just the first.
[09:32] <diplo> Anyone recommend a way of checking that I am the only one logged in to a system
[09:32] <AlanBell> users
[09:32] <pyshispythonbash> ahhh ok
[09:32] <brobostigon> i thought that is what the users command was for?
[09:33] <bigcalm> brobostigon: just managed to mount 2.5" drives into the 3.5" cradle bays of my HP Microserver
[09:33] <brobostigon> bigcalm: cool, :)
[09:33] <ormiret> pyshispythonbash: If you'll have an internet connection while installing the net_install disk is a nice small base
[09:33] <bigcalm> diplo: w who users, those 3 will help
[09:33] <diplo> yeah not sure how I am getting that to work AlanBell / bigcalm
[09:33] <pyshispythonbash> well I guess my wifi wont work
[09:33] <diplo> I basically want to identify that my shell is the only one logged in
[09:33] <diplo> IE
[09:34] <diplo> USER     TTY      FROM              LOGIN@   IDLE   JCPU   PCPU WHAT
[09:34] <diplo> root     tty1     -                Wed15   24:49m  0.04s  0.04s -bash
[09:34] <diplo> root     pts/0    192.168.1.16     Thu10    0.00s  0.07s  0.01s w
[09:34] <bigcalm> diplo: try these 3: w, who, users
[09:34] <diplo> All give same output, basically i am running a script and want to make sure no one is accessing cisam database
[09:34] <diplo> Hmm, maybe I just use lsof instead
[09:35] <oimon> whowatch
 diplo: w who users, those 3 will help
[09:35] <bigcalm> Oops
[09:35] <diplo> :)
[09:35] <ormiret> pyshispythonbash: It probably could be made to work, but you would have to do some configuring yourself, a wired connection is much easier.
[09:35] <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1065731/
[09:36] <diplo> yeah they all output the same info, what if we had 2 users logged in with same name
[09:36] <brobostigon> ormiret: if i remember, some wifi does work with the debian installer, but no closed blobs, and in kernel alone support.
[09:36] <diplo> Want to check my login is the only one logged in ig uess
[09:36] <diplo> Script something around id pid maybe ?
[09:36] <bigcalm> diplo: how would you have 2 different users with the same login name?
[09:36] <AlanBell> that is you logged in twice
[09:37] <diplo> So at our company we don't allow our customers root
[09:37] <diplo> So they login with our company name as a user for sysadmin work
[09:37] <diplo> As do I
[09:37] <diplo> So it could be them or me, and one of those users could be accessing a db file
[09:37] <oimon> diplo, it's the console
[09:38] <oimon> are you referrign to the tty1 line?
[09:38] <diplo> nah that was just an example :)
[09:38] <oimon> oh
[09:38] <AlanBell> shared logins mean you don't know who is who
[09:38] <diplo> 99% of the time they will be logged in remotely
[09:38] <diplo> Yep, not my fault :( legacy setup and I don't setup any of the systems
[09:38] <diplo> I fix there issues
[09:39] <AlanBell> yeah, it is pretty common
[09:39] <diplo> So just trying to work out how to identify me before checking
[09:39] <AlanBell> pstree maybe
[09:39] <diplo> so if(id = me) and who only includes me, run script
[09:39] <AlanBell> or lsof
[09:39] <diplo> heh lsof was my next choice
[09:39] <diplo> lsof | grep cisam
[09:39] <diplo> -bash: lsof: command not found
[09:39] <diplo> :(
[09:39]  * diplo gets clearance to add more software
[09:40] <AlanBell> try pstree
[09:40] <oimon> if you always login from the same ip , then grep it out of w results
[09:40] <diplo> ooh pstree is there, not used that before
[09:41]  * diplo investigates
[09:41] <diplo> oimon: Nice idea, but again most of the times this user will be logged in locally :(
[09:41] <diplo> I'm basically trying to cover my behind that's all
[09:41] <diplo> I was just going to do who -a and if more than 1 exit
[09:42] <diplo> But I thought I'd do it properly for once, as this company take so many shortcuts already :)
[09:43] <diplo> bigcalm: On your proliant w/who etc list your currently logged in user ?
[09:44] <diplo> As on my desktop here I get from w 0 users and who nothing at all
[09:44] <bigcalm> diplo: yes, I noticed that on my desktop I only got a result from w
[09:44] <diplo> heh, see this is why my script has gone from 40-50 lines to 200+ now
[09:44] <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1065744/
[09:45] <diplo> Good way to learn python but I'm having to work to make it work on different OS's/versions
[09:45] <diplo> yeah exactly what I get
[09:45] <diplo> At least that makes me feel better
[09:45] <bigcalm> diplo: so users are logging in via a gui rather than a terminal
[09:45] <diplo> ( Sorry all for the diplo spam )
[09:46] <diplo> I'll give a quick outlay of what we have maybe
[09:46] <diplo> ?
[09:46] <bigcalm> o.O
[09:47] <diplo> So we basically have a legacy ( talking 20 years old ) system that we write text based that users log into, this connects them to a cisam database to read files, when doing backups if there are any users logged in doing anything with data the idx/dat files will get out of sync
[09:47] <diplo> Cisam as far as i can find gives no offical way of backing up
[09:47] <diplo> So basically I need to be 100% sure that no users are logged in to cover all bases
[09:48] <diplo> I have a script that kills all users, but I hate running it
[09:48] <AlanBell> so give the backup system a different user name
[09:48] <diplo> Now I did think of that, but hadn't thought about it since
[09:48] <diplo> That's a good idea and simple
[09:49] <diplo> Why didn't i just go for that before, trying to over engineer it
[09:49] <AlanBell> heh
[09:54] <davmor2> morning all
[09:56] <bigcalm> Morning davmor2
[10:01] <davmor2> bigcalm: you got ICS yet?
[10:02] <popey> hmmm
[10:02] <bigcalm> davmor2: not when I checked this morning
[10:02] <popey> anyone else noticed that a recent update to precise causes grub to appear where previously it didnt?
[10:02] <bigcalm> popey: yes
[10:02] <popey> my mum phoned because her computer has a box on the screen, and I just rebooted my server and its the same
[10:02] <popey> no countdown, it just sits there
[10:03] <AlanBell> davmor2: I haven't got it either, need to find someone who still uses windows to run kies to update it
[10:03] <ali1234> a box?
[10:03] <bigcalm> AlanBell: he means on the xoom
[10:03] <ali1234> on the screen?
[10:03] <popey> grub menu
[10:03] <ali1234> ooo
[10:04] <pyshispythonbash> i didn't update
[10:04] <ali1234> ijust updated
[10:04] <ali1234> i'll just not reboot
[10:04] <pyshispythonbash> lol
[10:04] <popey> please do, to confirm it
[10:04] <popey> :)
[10:04] <davmor2> AlanBell: this is an over the air for the xoom
[10:04] <pyshispythonbash> type sudo shutdown -r
[10:04] <bigcalm> popey: I can confirm
[10:04] <popey> also, for some reason my server no longer gets an IP address
[10:05] <popey> ta
[10:05] <bigcalm> Oh dear
[10:05] <bigcalm> merlin?
[10:05] <popey> no, home server
[10:05] <bigcalm> Oh
[10:05] <AlanBell> scary stuff
[10:06]  * AlanBell updates home server to see what happens
[10:06] <pyshispythonbash> lol
[10:06] <ali1234> if i put cyanogenmod on my phone, is it "good"?
[10:06] <ali1234> i mean is it usable without crashing every day?
[10:07] <popey> was fine when i used it
[10:07] <popey> but i guess it depends on the version, hardware, how much you fiddle with bits
[10:08] <bigcalm> ali1234: I had CM 7.2 on my Nexus One and it improved it
[10:08] <bigcalm> Well, I started when it was v6, it's improved a lot and is very stable
[10:08] <bigcalm> I cannot say for CM 9
[10:08] <diplo> ali1234: I've used 7.1 for months now and made massive improvements to my wildfire
[10:08] <ali1234> hmm
[10:09] <diplo> Also my work colleague was having battery issues with his Desire for months
[10:09] <ali1234> i'll try 9 and if it sucks put 7 on it
[10:09] <diplo> Eventually talked him into upgrading to cm7 and it fixed most of his issues
[10:09] <ali1234> i've got samsung rom now, and it crashes every day :(
[10:09] <ali1234> can't really be much worse
[10:10] <ali1234> hmm software center has some new bits on it?
[10:11] <ali1234> or it's just gone bananas?
[10:12] <ali1234> http://ubuntuone.com/2E0o82BujwgU5Gim95HPYp
[10:13] <ali1234> i figure the CM9 kernel should be mostly the same right?
[10:14] <bigcalm> Humm
[10:14] <bigcalm> My desktop isn't getting an IP now
[10:14] <bigcalm> Fudge
[10:14] <AlanBell> gosh
[10:15] <bigcalm> Today's upgrade was not a good one
[10:15] <bigcalm> I just had to set the connection manually
[10:15] <gord> hum, nexus 7 pricepoint is much more agreeable to gord than ipads
[10:17] <dwatkins> what got upgraded, bigcalm?
[10:17] <bigcalm> Kernel
[10:17] <dwatkins> oh my
[10:17] <dwatkins> that reminds me, I need to setup stuff on my DHCP server
[10:18] <diplo> Ooh I upgraded earlier, not rebooted yet
[10:18]  * diplo leaves work PC on over weekend to get fix updates
[10:19] <AlanBell> dhcp3-client dhcp3-common grub-common grub-pc grub-pc-bin grub2-common would seem likely to be the offending updates
[10:19] <AlanBell> is there some kind of OH NO IT IS ALL GOING WRONG procedure for this popey?
[10:19] <AlanBell> get those pulled from the archive or something
[10:19] <popey> change the bulb
[10:20] <bigcalm> Haha
[10:20] <dwatkins> how many engineers does that take? ;)
[10:20] <bigcalm> Aye, it'll be dhcp at fault rather than the kernel
[10:21] <AlanBell> how did those not get caught in -proposed?
[10:22] <bigcalm> Someone rushing?
[10:22]  * bigcalm blames davmor2
[10:22] <davmor2> bigcalm: why me I don't test that stuff at all :P
[10:23] <bigcalm> davmor2: you're closer to hand, that's why ;)
[10:25] <davmor2> bigcalm: well you can blame me all you want I don't have nothing to do with it, and won't fix it, at least blame gord or popey they are at least devs :P
[10:30] <popey> I am _so_ not a dev
[10:30] <popey> AlanBell, have you discovered a bug?
[10:30] <davmor2> popey: more of a dev than I am :P
[10:31] <AlanBell> popey: not yet, I haven't rebooted, just installing updates
[10:31] <bigcalm> I didn't think popey was a dev?
[10:31] <gord> i wouldn't blame me for dhcp problems. i still have to put my home server in my hosts file because i never figured out how to get it to work with dhcp
[10:31]  * bigcalm reads up
[10:32]  * bigcalm shuts down his server to install a 2nd 2.5" drive \o/
[10:45] <bigcalm> Two 2.5" USB drives are now two 2.5" internal drives in the proliant!
[10:45] <bigcalm> Makes access time a bit quicker and removes the ugly USB cables :D
[10:46] <popey> \o/
[10:47] <bigcalm> Using the 2.5" -> 3.5" converters and SATA extension cables
[10:47] <bigcalm> Because of the drive sizes, the cables nestle nicely next to them
[10:48] <bigcalm> I feel like a proper geek today
[10:48] <gord> i have a front loader bay thingy on my machine, cables are so neat and tidy
[10:48] <gord> they all hide behind the back of the case even
[10:50] <ali1234> ok, i'm puzzled. i installed the CM9 and the gapps zip but i don't have any gapps :(
[10:50] <bigcalm> My fingers are a little sore from using that special alan key for mounting the drives though
[10:50] <ali1234> this is a lot faster than i was expecting
[10:50] <bigcalm> ali1234: it's odd I agree. But you'll have access to them via the play store
[10:50] <ali1234> but i don't have play store link...
[10:51] <bigcalm> You don't?
[10:51] <bigcalm> Oh dear
[10:51] <ali1234> i don't think so
[10:51] <bigcalm> Odd
[10:51] <diplo> Not still the old name ?
[10:51] <diplo> And need to update for it to fix
[10:51] <diplo> ?
[10:51] <bigcalm> Aye, might be market
[10:51] <ali1234> i just installed the nightly build...
[10:51] <diplo> the gapps
[10:51] <ali1234> i don't see either
[10:51] <bigcalm> Tsk. Why didn't you get the RC1?
[10:52] <diplo> Hmm, not seen that before.
[10:52] <ali1234> cos the nightly is newer
[10:52] <ali1234> and because there's no rc1 for this phone
[10:52] <bigcalm> ali1234: and more likely to be broken :)
[10:52] <bigcalm> Ah, you're living on the edge :)
[10:55] <ali1234> reinstalled the zip from recovery, i think it might be working now
[10:56] <ali1234> yes it worked
[10:56] <christel> invoicing-- :
[10:57] <christel> i really really really do not enjoy invoicing
[10:59] <ali1234> hmm it doesn't remember all my apps?
[11:00] <diplo> christel: Done that tap yet ?
[11:00]  * bigcalm taps christel
[11:00] <diplo> Nope, should remember your wireless settings etc though
[11:00] <bigcalm> LUNCH!
[11:02] <mattt> LOONCH
[11:02] <diplo> Yes please bigcalm
[11:02] <christel> bigcalm: norty.
[11:02] <christel> diplo: not yet! i am er, doing some invoicing first!
[11:04] <diplo> Priorities :D
[11:05]  * diplo thinks google hangout is in order when you start :)
[11:08] <christel> hahaha so you can all laugh at me when i get water EVERYWHERE? :P
[11:09] <diplo> heh yep
[11:09] <diplo> What other good uses are hangouts for
[11:10]  * gord is imagining something clsoe to http://www.gifbin.com/983856
[11:10] <gord> close*
[11:12] <diplo> lol
[11:12] <AlanBell> popey: bigcalm: I just installed precise server in a VM and updated and rebooted and it is fine
[11:19] <popey> hmm
[11:21] <greenian2> hello all
[11:21] <popey> hi
[11:22] <greenian2> hi popey
[11:28] <oimon> ali1234, the only thing that crashes on my CM is facebook if it start it too early after switching on phone, but thats fb issue
[11:28] <oimon> i had a crashy cm install on my touchpad once, but i reflashed it and the problems went away
[11:32] <AlanBell> I should be able to install CM9 without upgrading to stock ICS first right?
[11:32] <brobostigon> in chrome now, it is showing two flash plugins, the adobe one, and the pepperflash one, does it matter having both enabled, or should i disable one?
[11:32] <brobostigon> AlanBell: yes.
[11:33] <oimon> saw someone mention that chromium ppa in ubuntu hasn't recived updates since v18
[11:33] <brobostigon> AlanBell: you will need engineering reoverry though,
[11:33] <brobostigon> oimon: that is correct.
[11:33] <brobostigon> recovery*
[11:34] <oimon> think i'll stick to firefox
[11:36] <bigcalm> AlanBell: yes, you're replacing the whole OS
[11:36] <AlanBell> ok, and from there I can install boot to gecko
[11:38] <bigcalm> AlanBell: http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_S_II:_Full_Update_Guide
[11:47] <ali1234> ICS is really good
[11:47] <ali1234> they've fixed the super ugly g+ client too
[11:48] <bigcalm> ali1234: everybody sees that update
[11:54] <diplo> AlanBell: you going to try and run B2G on your phone ?
[11:55] <AlanBell> yeah probably
[11:55] <diplo> ooh, let me know how you get on
[11:55] <diplo> I don't have a device I can try it with yet
[12:02] <The_Fred> hello
[12:05]  * bigcalm scratches his head
[12:06] <bigcalm> I now have 52.2GB of space on my dropbox account - why?
[12:06] <bigcalm> I don't pay them any money
[12:06] <diplo> S3 recently ?
[12:07] <diplo> If so that's why :)
[12:07] <bigcalm> Ah :D
[12:07] <bigcalm> Heh
[12:07] <bigcalm> I didn't know that would happen
[12:07] <diplo> Think it's an agreement with Samsung
[12:07] <bigcalm> Though I was surprised that dropbox was installed by default
[12:08] <bigcalm> Email just came in: Congrats on becoming a Dropbox Guru! We've awarded you 48 GB of bonus space for the next 24 months!
[12:08] <bigcalm> 2 years only eh?
[12:08] <bigcalm> I won't go over my original limit then
[12:11] <diplo> Might as well make use of it ?
[12:11] <diplo> In 2 years dropbox may have dropped their prices
[12:12] <ali1234> also in 2 years you will buy a new phone
[12:12] <bigcalm> I currently don't pay anything to dropbox, why would I want to start?
[12:12] <bigcalm> ali1234: possibly true
[12:13] <diplo> But in 2 years you just canccel
[12:13] <diplo> ?
[12:13] <diplo> Might as well use 50GB for 2 years
[12:18] <bigcalm> Anyway, I don't actually use that much
[12:18] <diplo> Me either, but I intend to use more when I can afford to get myself a better phone
[12:19] <diplo> The wildfire does work, but for stuff i want to do it dies a lot
[12:19] <diplo> :(
[12:19] <bigcalm> I'll be putting CM 7.2 onto Hayley's Wildfire at the weekend
[12:19] <diplo> Going to do mine tonight I think
[12:19] <bigcalm> Breath some life into it and stop her from wanting to buy a new phone
[12:19] <bigcalm> Oh, you haven't got it on there already?
[12:19] <diplo> Nope, 7.1
[12:19] <bigcalm> Oh, but you do have CM :)
[12:20] <diplo> Couldn't be bothered with reinstalling apps
[12:20] <diplo> yeah
[12:20] <bigcalm> Apps are meant to install themselves if you have it set right
[12:20] <diplo> oh, know where that is set ?
[12:21] <bigcalm> It's a sync option when you add your gmail account. But I don't know how to re-activate it if you skipped it one 1st setup
[12:23] <diplo> Well I suppose would be good to know if it's activated in the first place
[12:29] <bigcalm> When I added a gmail account to my SGS3, it automatically installed a load of apps I had on my nexus one
[12:29] <diplo> Oh, well looking here https://play.google.com/store/account
[12:30] <diplo> I can see a list of apps installed
[12:30] <diplo> So may just give it a go
[12:30] <diplo> not the end of the world :)
[12:30] <DJones> bigcalm: I've not seen that happen before, it didn't do it when I registered my tablet with the same gmail account
[12:30] <diplo> Titanium backup supposedly does some of the app reinstalling
[12:44] <ali1234> bigcalm: that is exactly what didn't happen when i upgraded
[12:44] <ali1234> i expected it would but it didn't
[12:44] <bigcalm> Oh well :)
[12:47] <czajkowski> anyone else find they are a me too on this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1019233
[12:48] <bigcalm> Royal Mail are annoying. https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/218678706921684992/photo/1/large - this will be a birthday card
[12:49] <davmor2> bigcalm: dude thanks for the heads up on update for the superhub for the modem only mode this seems less up/down than it was, speed fluctuates but I can deal with that
[12:50] <bigcalm> davmor2: great
[12:54] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/388913-asus-nexus-7-tablet-pc-90ok0mi1100550u
[12:54] <popey> oooo
[12:55] <gord> was looking at that earlier
[12:55] <gord> very good price
[12:56]  * dwatkins discovers his logins are slow due to bug 384017
[12:56] <gord> all i want a tablet to do is sit in a dock as a music player really
[12:57] <davmor2> popey, gord: and yet it's $169 :( UK gets poo'd on again
[12:58] <bigcalm> Import costs?
[12:58] <popey> VAT
[12:58] <popey> the US price doesn't include taxes
[12:58] <popey> the UK one does
[12:59] <gord> yeah, you buy it from google directly you are gonna pay a lot more than you think
[12:59] <popey> 8GB is £159
[12:59] <gord> it really does just look like a massive phone though
[13:00] <dwatkins> I can't talk now, I'm in the library!
[13:01] <davmor2> popey, bigcalm: and 20% on to the uk equiv of $169 is £129.2628
[13:11] <The_Fred> Hey folks :)
[13:12] <The_Fred> I've just published the Ubuntu speech input app onto google play, but im waiting for the desktop side app to clear the review process
[13:15] <The_Fred> i dont suppose that anyone knows anything about the review process for software going into software center?
[13:15] <AlanBell> I know it takes a while
[13:15] <gord> davmor2: might!
[13:15] <The_Fred> hmm
[13:16] <davmor2> gord: What?
[13:17] <bigcalm> The_Fred: davmor2 knows
[13:18] <The_Fred> davmor2, how long does it take for review process for the software center?
[13:18] <davmor2> The_Fred: is it in the ARB Queue?
[13:18] <The_Fred> yea
[13:18] <The_Fred> 1 day, 19 hrs ago now
[13:19] <davmor2> The_Fred: As long as it takes I'm afraid,  They have regular meetings where they look at all the apps that have come in, sort out any issues and then get back to the devs, check the packaging and forward it to the extras ppa
[13:20] <The_Fred> ok, thanks for that
[13:20] <dwatkins> What did you create, The_Fred? I'm curious.
[13:20]  * bigcalm ponders learning python
[13:20] <davmor2> extras repo even
[13:20] <The_Fred> dwatkins, speech input system for ubuntu
[13:20] <AlanBell> davmor2: why are we slower than apple and android?
[13:20] <davmor2> bigcalm: DO IT! DO IT NOW!!
[13:21] <bigcalm> davmor2: what version though?
[13:21] <dwatkins> The_Fred: neat, I look forward to using it
[13:21] <bigcalm> AlanBell: man power?
[13:21] <AlanBell> how is it supposed to scale up if it can't cope already?
[13:21] <ormiret> bigcalm: I'd echo davmor2's sentiment. Though it might make you realise how awful PHP is :)
[13:22] <The_Fred> dwatkins, thank you :)
[13:22] <davmor2> AlanBell: because we don't have full automation, and they don't have to wait on a voluntary team to look at the packages, the Commercial apps have a dedicated team so they are released on a quicker basis
[13:22] <bigcalm> ormiret: PHP is my job. But Python is possibly needed now
[13:22]  * bigcalm grumbles at his boss
[13:23]  * bigcalm takes a shower to ponder it some more
[13:23] <davmor2> bigcalm: Learn Python 3 it will be the default in 12.10, and it handles unicode properly which you will undoubtedly need at some point
[13:23] <popey> heh
[13:23] <bigcalm> davmor2: I see
[13:23] <gord> though you will still find python 2 on most production servers
[13:23] <bigcalm> I have an o'rly book on 2.4/2.6 which says it will help with 3.x
[13:23] <popey> my ex boss just emailed me a screenshot of putty running top
[13:23] <gord> your python 3 code won't work on 2
[13:24] <popey> showing me running top
[13:24] <ali1234> python 2 handles unicode properly, jeez
[13:24] <popey> from over 6 months ago
[13:24] <ali1234> did someone ask a python unicode question?
[13:24] <popey> runtime column has 4183:50
[13:24] <The_Fred> davmor2, thats good news about py3... i had a hard time getting android app to play nice with python code on the desktop
[13:24] <ali1234> cos if they did i missed it
[13:24] <AlanBell> popey: xkcd.com/686/
[13:25] <directhex> AlanBell, it's genuinely creepy
[13:25] <bigcalm> Haha
[13:26] <The_Fred> ive often wondered what happens when someone dies and they are in charge of a project
[13:26] <The_Fred> like Linus Torvalds, when he passes on, who will take the helm?
[13:27] <popey> he covered that in an interview
[13:27] <popey> there's 4 or 5 people who could take over
[13:27] <ali1234> greg kroah hartman and andrew morton will fight to the death in the thunderdome
[13:27] <The_Fred> aha
[13:35] <jacobw> bigcalm: i wouldn't be grumpy about that
[13:35] <jacobw> sucession issues are interesting
[13:36]  * jacobw is of the opinion that stallman has already been suceeded
[13:37] <jacobw> the transistion from optparse/argparse during python2 is a gotcha
[13:39]  * diplo is debugging python script as we speak :(
[13:48] <diplo> bloomin eck bigcalm certainly had some rain didn't you
[13:48] <diplo> :)
[13:48] <diplo> Was bone dry here till 11/12pm
[13:49] <bigcalm> diplo: just a little :) https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts
[13:49] <diplo> yeah just watched it
[13:49] <bigcalm> (for those that didn't ;))
[13:50] <diplo> :D
[13:50]  * diplo is half asleep
[13:52] <dwatkins> bigcalm: may I add you on G+?
[13:53] <diplo> He's boring, I wouldn't :)
[13:53] <dwatkins> I just want all the people, of course
[13:54] <davmor2> dwatkins: you can add who you want they just don't have to add you back :)
[13:54] <gord> everyone should make sure to add me, i sometimes post up to *twice* in a month
[13:54] <dwatkins> davmor2: this is a good point
[13:54] <dwatkins> gord is no spammer.
[13:55] <diplo> I think that's my limit as well gord
[13:55] <diplo> :)
[13:55] <diplo> As is davmor2
[13:56] <bigcalm> dwatkins: by all means
[13:56] <bigcalm> I tend to post to twitter. Which auto sends to Facebook. I forget to add things to G+
[13:56] <dwatkins> Roger Wilco
[13:56] <AlanBell> you can add me on G+ and I will send you invitations to BBQs
[13:57] <dwatkins> I use twitter for links, but I have a separate account for that.
[13:57] <bigcalm> Chucky Egg? Cool
[13:57] <davmor2> diplo: I'll have you know I spam G+ nearly fortnightly sometimes
[13:57] <dwatkins> :D
[13:57] <bigcalm> AlanBell: wouldn't it be great if _everybody_ turned up?
[13:57] <AlanBell> anyone not on G+ who wants to come -> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/
[13:57] <diplo> heh
[13:57] <AlanBell> bigcalm: it would!
[13:58] <bigcalm> Your poor chickens
[13:58] <diplo> It's a day I don't have my boys so I should just put definite... just the decision on what to do, hotel/drive home etc
[13:58] <diplo> What do you need us to bring AlanBell ?
[13:58] <bigcalm> It's a 3+ hour drive for us. I want to attend and so does Hayley. But it's the accommodation that will bite
[13:59] <AlanBell> meat/drink is always welcome, bring a tent and such if you want to do that
[13:59] <bigcalm> Maybe we'll just do it
[13:59] <AlanBell> bigcalm: tent!
[13:59] <bigcalm> AlanBell: not for one night :P
[13:59] <diplo> Just how big is that garden of yours ?
[13:59] <diplo> :)
[13:59] <The_Fred> given the recent weather i'd take a boat :)
[14:00]  * jacobw is looking for information on how to set the smbios entries of libvirt to emulate virtualbox
[14:01] <AlanBell> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-D0ilB-BkB3Q/T8nlszUyuNI/AAAAAAAACog/Q23B1aDm_pc/s862/2012-06-02+11.00.53.jpg
[14:01] <AlanBell> does that link work?
[14:02] <The_Fred> AlanBell, cool, you have chickens :)
[14:02] <AlanBell> I certainly do
[14:02] <The_Fred> i wonder what game could be played with chickens on a trampoline?
[14:02] <AlanBell> angry birds
[14:02] <The_Fred> :)
[14:03] <The_Fred> lol
[14:05] <davmor2> AlanBell: I'm disappointed to see that your chickens are so unpatriotic I expect to see mini union flags on their hutch in the next photo ;)
[14:05] <The_Fred> im suprised there's not another version of that game... like mad ducks, or peeved peacocks...
[14:06] <AlanBell> davmor2: if it wasn't raining so much at the jubilee I was going to paint snowdrop with one wing red and one wing blue
[14:06] <davmor2> The_Fred: Angry Aardvarks
[14:06] <The_Fred> heh
[14:07] <davmor2> AlanBell: Haha nice :)
[14:07] <davmor2> AlanBell: but wouldn't that technically make it a french bird?
[14:07] <AlanBell> yeah
[14:09] <AlanBell> I can see her getting green and orange wings at some point
[14:09] <AlanBell> czajkowski would approve
[14:10] <bigcalm> :)
[14:11] <davmor2> AlanBell: Don't you dare there are cruelty against animals rules in this country you know :D
[14:12] <AlanBell> it would be harmless food colouring or something
[14:12] <davmor2> AlanBell: I meant making Irish
[14:12] <AlanBell> ah :)
[14:14] <bigcalm> Tsk
[14:15] <The_Fred> what is going on with the UK? There seems to be a growing trend of young kids/babies being hurt/killed recently.. :(
[14:16] <davmor2> The_Fred: Darwinian Survival of the fittest ?
[14:16] <The_Fred> maybe
[14:16]  * davmor2 should pay more attention to the news and then might actually know but it is always bad news
[14:16] <The_Fred> thats so true
[14:17]  * The_Fred blocks the bbc
[14:30] <czajkowski> Are you a technical writer? Want to work with amazing people and great team? Come join us! bit.ly/MFTzcU
[14:36] <bubu> hi guys, wondering if anyone could help figure out what is going wrong from this small pac capture: www.pastebin.com/5NaPB2Ga
[14:36] <bubu> 172.20.50.26 is my application server, which calls out to 173.0.82.89
[14:36] <bubu> but the application is timing out and throwing an error
[14:37] <bubu> anyone see anything wrong with that?
[14:46] <bigcalm> maresnest?
[14:48] <The_Fred> czajkowski, whats the salary of the tech writers post?
[14:49] <czajkowski> The_Fred: I'm not sure
[14:49] <czajkowski> are you a technical writer?
[14:49] <The_Fred> no,im just curious is all
[14:50] <The_Fred> bubu, i can only guess, is there a thread on one of the machines thats playing up?
[14:51] <cocoa117> i have 2TB hard disk, and the whole disk is been used for lvm pv. However after create volume group, the volume group size is only 1.82TB, where did all the 20G go?
[14:53] <directhex> cocoa117, this is an issue with units.
[14:54] <The_Fred> +1..... 1000 GB is not 1024 GB... this is quite common and it sucks
[14:54] <cocoa117> directhex, so how do i get them back? or it is there, just didn't show it with unit
[14:54] <directhex> cocoa117, "1K" means 1024 bytes, because computers work in base-2 numbers. But the prefix "kilo" means "1000" so in some circles, "1K" means "1000" bytes
[14:54] <directhex> cocoa117, so your 2T disk is 2000000000000 bytes
[14:55] <cocoa117> directhex, so the display of "VG Size  1.82 TiB" is ...
[14:55] <AlanBell> tibibytes
[14:55] <diddledan> those are tebibytes
[14:56] <AlanBell> which are bigger, so you have less of them
[14:56] <directhex> cocoa117, the little "i" is used to disambiguate 1024 versus 1000 - it's saying the disk is 1.82 TiB, where 1 TiB is 1099511627776 bytes
[14:56] <ali1234> so you guys explanation for this is that the HD size (as printed on the label) is 2 terabytes but the OS is displaying in tebibytes
[14:56] <directhex> (not 1000000000000)
[14:57] <directhex> ali1234, precisely
[14:57] <AlanBell> this is all caused by marketing people being scared of number systems they don't understand
[14:57] <cocoa117> ha, ok, it's the same size of hard disk, just showed in different unit of measure it
[14:58] <directhex> cocoa117, right!
[14:58] <The_Fred> and then factor in that some US firms use 100,000 as a million, but other countries use 1000,000 as a million
[14:58] <czajkowski> Myrtti: ping
[14:58] <Myrtti> czajkowski: pong
[14:58] <diddledan> really?
[14:58] <cocoa117> got it, cheers guys
[14:58] <directhex> The_Fred, i think it's 1,000,000,000,000 versus 1,000,000,000 as a billion
[14:58] <diddledan> I thought the issue was billions
[14:58] <directhex> i.e. is a billion a thousand million or a million million
[14:59] <diddledan> 1 thousand million vs 1 million million
[14:59] <diddledan> british it the latter
[14:59] <diddledan> american is the former
[14:59] <diddledan> but since america is top dog we conform to their standard mostly these days
[15:00] <shauno> this whole thing of mibi vs mega isn't fear, it's been a standard for 15 years now
[15:00] <ali1234> it's a neologism
[15:01] <diddledan> shauno, it was brought about by the marketers confusing the sizes of hard discs though
[15:01] <directhex> shauno, right. but it's dishonest marketing to advertise storage in base-10 units, when every OS counts in base-2 units
[15:01] <shauno> not every OS.  I believe windows is meant to be moving to metric too
[15:01] <diddledan> typical
[15:01] <diddledan> every os that matters ? :-p
[15:02] <shauno> OSX is already there.  and linux is still suffering from groupthink over direction
[15:02] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy
[15:02] <AlanBell> shauno: ubuntu has a policy on it
[15:02] <ali1234> if you say "1 kilobyte" absolutely nobody at all would think you mean 1000 bytes
[15:03] <directhex> shauno, windows says metric and uses base-2
[15:03] <directhex> shauno, i.e. it says "GB" and shows GiB
[15:03] <ali1234> (which is the only way which is actually correct)
[15:05] <shauno> AlanBell: that policy looks sane.  and conflicts with most people's complaints that it's some harddrive conspiracy
[15:05] <shauno> (when my understanding is that it actually came from telcoms, where linespeeds have always been metric)
[15:05] <ali1234> nope
[15:07] <AlanBell> well hard drives are the main area where it is technically possible to build things to a size that is a multiple of 1000
[15:08] <AlanBell> dunno if you could build a 1000MB ram dimm and expect it to function
[15:08] <shauno> right.  same with linespeeds.  they're essentially "how long is a peice of string", where you cut to any length you feel like.  ram's the main holdout, because they're built in arrays, so always square numbers
[15:08] <ali1234> why not?
[15:08] <ali1234> ram and hard drives are addresses in exactly the same way
[15:09] <AlanBell> ali1234: not sure really, of course with virtual machines it is easy to prove that the operating system doesn't care much about the specific ram it has
[15:09] <popey> line speeds are more about "what's technically possible with this conductor"
[15:10] <shauno> in theory, but 10meg, 100meg, GigE etc doesn't just magically work out at a surpisingly round number
[15:11] <AlanBell> yeah, that goes a bit backwards, they start with a speed and then certify the line length and connectors and such that will let it still work
[15:13] <AlanBell> although 10/100/1000 are all 100m segment length which surprises me
[15:14] <bigcalm> An easy number for people to think of
[15:22] <bigcalm> Is it the weekend yet?
[15:22] <ali1234> yes
[15:22] <bigcalm> Lier
[15:22] <bigcalm> :(
[15:22] <davmor2> ali1234: liar liar pants on fire
[15:24] <davmor2> bigcalm: test your for an update and then be hugely disappointed or gob smacked when there is or isn't it'll take your mind off the time left
[15:24] <davmor2> on you xoom
[15:25] <bigcalm> davmor2: I've checked 3 times so far today
[15:25] <davmor2> bigcalm: an hour or minute?
[15:25] <DJones> Does that mean you're due to get ICS today?
[15:25] <bigcalm> :P
[15:25] <bigcalm> No, but soon
[15:25] <bigcalm> Apparently
[15:26] <bigcalm> DJones: davmor2 has the details
[15:26] <DJones> To be honest, I was expecting jelly bean to be released for mine before you got ics for the xoom
[15:26] <bigcalm> Heh
[15:26] <bigcalm> I wonder when the SGS3 will get JellyBean
[15:27] <ali1234> i tried to convince Mer project they should name their releases after sea food dishes
[15:27] <ali1234> so like "prawn cocktail" "fish fingers" etc
[15:27] <ali1234> they wouldn't have it though :(
[15:27] <bigcalm> The sods :)
[15:28] <ali1234> they called it nemo instead
[15:28] <bigcalm> Boring
[15:28] <davmor2> DJones: http://www.facebook.com/motorolaeurope/posts/319548971473229 there is still time for you to get jellybean
[15:28] <ali1234> yeah. that's what you get if you put it up for a vote tho
[15:33] <jacobw> line speeds are always metric
[15:35] <DJones> davmor2: bigcalm http://www.transformerforums.com/forum/transformer-prime-general-discussions/24430-too-soon-asking-about-jelly-bean-prime.html Just reading that, there's a comment bout the xoom getting Jelly Bean in mid July.... Are you going to hold your breath waiting, I think the writer has mixed up ICS & JB though
[15:35] <davmor2> ali1234: yeah but nemo is a clown fish right so they got the sea bit right and it's food for other animals so that is kinda sea food :)
[15:35] <bigcalm> Heh
[15:35] <ali1234> it was named after captain nemo
[15:35] <ali1234> not the fish
[15:35] <bigcalm> I'm in no rush for anything - I've lost the ability to be super excited. I'm a little concerned about this now
[15:36] <jacobw> ++verne
[15:36] <ali1234> at least i think it was
[15:36] <davmor2> DJones: no it might be that the states get it in mid july they have had ICS for nearly a year iirc
[15:41]  * jacobw goes home
[15:53] <AlanBell> bigcalm: you can get excited about the BBQ
[15:55] <bigcalm> But that might not happen for us, I need to consider money
[15:55] <bigcalm> We're going to the RAT and oggcamp. And we're saving for next year's wedding and a future mortgage
[15:57] <davmor2> bigcalm: we can try and kill two birds with one stone if you like?  I'll strap a big rocket firework to your back and point you in the direction of the BBQ, we can then see if it excites you and will cost you nothing to get there if you do :)
[15:58] <bigcalm> davmor2: I think you'd get more out of it than I would
[15:58] <christel> seriously
[15:59] <christel> you're prioritising a wedding over AlanBell's BBQ?
[15:59] <davmor2> bigcalm: you know sometimes I think you must have a hard time living up to your nickname
[15:59] <christel> bigcalm--
[15:59] <bigcalm> christel: :(
[15:59] <christel> (come to the bbq)
[15:59] <christel> (postpone the wedding)
[15:59] <christel> (also, invite me to wedding, i like weddings)
[15:59] <bigcalm> christel: we both want to come, I'll see what I can do
[15:59] <bigcalm> Hehe
[15:59] <christel> yes! do it
[16:00] <christel> infact, just stay down here after RAT
[16:00]  * christel nods
[16:00] <bigcalm> Erm, for how long?
[16:00] <christel> it's.. 2 weekS? :D
[16:00] <bigcalm> Hehe
[16:00] <christel> you can er, holiday in surrey -- we have uhm.. trees?
[16:00] <AlanBell> in a tent in my garden!
[16:00] <bigcalm> Yay trees
[16:00] <bigcalm> Haha
[16:01] <bigcalm> Ahem, sorry AlanBell :)
[16:01] <davmor2> AlanBell: I'm sure there is room in the coop there are only two of them :D
[16:01] <christel> davmor2: hahaha
[16:01] <bigcalm> Oh dear
[16:16] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: poke
[16:17] <davmor2> bigcalm: so this staged rollout of ICS seems to be germany that's obviously europe now right :D
[16:17] <dogmatic69> o/
[16:18] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: cakephp. How do you delete a record from a table by id?
[16:18] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: I'm in a controller and want to delete a record from a given model
[16:18] <bigcalm> Would be nice to do this without writing SQL
[16:19] <dogmatic69> $this->ModelName->delete(id)
[16:19] <bigcalm> That simple? Ta
[16:19] <dogmatic69> yep
[16:20] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: set up cake console and use bake, it will show you some basics
[16:20] <dogmatic69> https://github.com/infinitas/infinitas/blob/dev/Core/Libs/Controller/Component/MassActionComponent.php#L235
[16:20] <dogmatic69> you can use deleteAll(array(1,2,3)) too
[16:20] <bigcalm> It's a 1.1 project :D
[16:20] <dogmatic69> lol
[16:21] <dogmatic69> then I cant help much, only started on 1.2 which was almost a rewrite of 1.1
[16:21] <bigcalm> Yep
[16:21] <bigcalm> But some function names might be similar
[16:21] <dogmatic69> ye
[16:21] <dogmatic69> delete() should be the same
[16:22] <bigcalm> Hope so. Doing battle with this project is slow
[16:22] <dogmatic69> is it big?
[16:22] <bigcalm> Yep
[16:23] <bigcalm> There's talk of porting the app to the latest version of cakephp. But that won't be for a long time
[16:23] <dogmatic69> 2.2 is awesome
[16:23] <bigcalm> More features to develop and bugs to fix
[16:23] <dogmatic69> I would guess it to be 3 or 4 times faster than 1.1
[16:30] <bigcalm> delete() works, ta
[17:08] <Q__> hello
[17:08] <popey> anyone done a reinstall on a system that has encrypted home?
[17:11] <czajkowski> popey: nope but support might have done one for someone
[17:12] <czajkowski> they may know
[17:12] <popey> i want to revert back to precise
[17:12] <czajkowski> see pm
[18:39] <AlanBell> popey: any reason for going back?
[18:42] <BigRedS> I was pondering upgrading my desktop to Q the other day
[18:42] <BigRedS> I think it's either that or something crazy like slackware
[18:43] <AlanBell> Q seems fine to me, just like P really
[18:43]  * AlanBell goes to build a new bike
[18:43] <AlanBell> my old one exploded on the way home :(
[18:43] <jacobw> why the dichotomy?
[18:44] <BigRedS> Motorbike?
[18:44] <AlanBell> pedal bike, the deralleur thing went into the spokes and ripped apart the back end
[18:45] <BigRedS> I'm getting a little bored with everything Just Working. If Q's as stable as P I might have to go with something daft
[18:45] <AlanBell> would cost more in parts than a new £80 bike from halfords so I got a new one
[18:45] <BigRedS> ah, if it's modern it might just be a mech hanger, mech and bit of a wheel trueing you need
[18:45] <BigRedS> oh
[18:45] <BigRedS> yeah, if it's an £80 bike it won't be just that
[18:46] <AlanBell> the new one has suspension and everything
[18:47] <BigRedS> I guess it's getting harder to get £80 ones without now
[18:49] <diplo> qevening all
[18:49] <diplo> Evening*
[18:51] <brobostigon> whats the best way to store fresh herbs?
[18:53] <ali1234> inside your stomach
[18:54] <brobostigon> haha
[18:54] <brobostigon> i bought too much coriander,
[18:54] <brobostigon> fresh.
[18:55] <shauno> cold/dark/dry is a sensible default.  otherwise, "on the plant"
[18:55] <brobostigon> fridge?
[18:55] <ali1234> meh
[18:56] <ali1234> have you chopped it up?
[18:56] <popey> AlanBell, i want my main machine stable on LTS
[18:56] <brobostigon> no
[18:56] <ali1234> is it one of those ones where it comes in a little port of soil?
[18:56] <ali1234> or is it just stalks?
[18:56] <brobostigon> ali1234: mo.
[18:57] <ali1234> mo?
[18:57] <brobostigon> ali1234: no, then yes.
[18:57] <ali1234> i'd say fridge then, given how hot and humid it currently is
[18:57] <ali1234> store it like you would store salad
[18:58] <brobostigon> ok.
[18:58] <popey> it says on it how to store it
[18:58] <popey> most say "DO NOT PUT IN FRIDGE"
[18:58] <popey> or "MUST PUT IN FRIDGE"
[18:58] <popey> or similar
[18:58] <ali1234> yeah but labelling is just LIES
[18:58] <popey> [FACT]
[18:59] <brobostigon> popey: i bought raw, no usch instruction, just bunch of coriander.
[18:59] <ali1234> if it was winter i'd say leave it out but in this heat it is gonna wilt in a few hours
[18:59] <brobostigon> ok.
[18:59] <brobostigon> done.
[18:59] <ali1234> fridge is probably too cold for it but what can you do
[18:59] <popey> put it in the bottom or drawer
[18:59] <popey> not near the back
[18:59] <popey> it will get freezer burn
[19:00] <brobostigon> bottom loads of space.
[19:00] <popey> thats what..
[19:00]  * popey goes to make food
[19:01] <jacobw> ketchup sandwich is suprisngly tasty
[19:04] <The_Fred> yea,i had a current sarnie the other day
[19:04] <The_Fred> just had a sudden hankering
[19:04] <ali1234> toast sandwich. yeah
[19:05] <The_Fred> brobostigon, hello :)
[19:05] <brobostigon> hello The_Fred :0
[19:05] <brobostigon> hello The_Fred :)
[19:05] <brobostigon> wish you were here, :'(
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> GAAH
[19:05] <The_Fred> hope your keeping dry
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> Kernel security bug = 600 emails on -security-announce
[19:05] <ali1234> what's the bug?
[19:06] <ali1234> is that why we got a kernel update today?
[19:06] <The_Fred> brobostigon, wish i was there.... you having a party?
[19:06] <brobostigon> The_Fred: no, on my own.
[19:06] <The_Fred> ah, friday nite blues eh?
[19:07] <brobostigon> The_Fred: whjy would i be irc if i was having a party, illogical.
[19:07] <The_Fred> its been known to happen :)
[19:07] <ali1234> it could be a geek party
[19:07] <The_Fred> thats the one!
[19:07] <brobostigon> i was refferring to the pink floyd song.
[19:07] <ali1234> 10 people in same room, in silence, talking or irc
[19:08] <The_Fred> lol
[19:08] <ali1234> you think i am joking
[19:08] <Laney> we had a DMB meeting like that once at UDS
[19:08] <Laney> it was unnerving
[19:08] <The_Fred> more like folk getting drunk after a good game of alien arena, and then spending time on the arena IRC
[19:08] <jacobw> DMB?
[19:09] <Laney> i wonder if there's a factoid
[19:09] <Laney> !dmb
[19:09] <Laney> AWESOME BOT.
[19:09] <The_Fred> !meaningoflife
[19:09] <The_Fred> heh
[19:10] <jacobw> it'd be cool if the bot did some self motivated learning when praised
[19:10] <jacobw> but only when praised
[19:10] <The_Fred> yea, reenforced learning
[19:10] <ali1234> nah, it wouldn't work. AI is still all tricks.
[19:11]  * The_Fred wants tony starks J.A.R.V.I.S
[19:12] <jacobw> the idea of bot being motivated by praise tickles me
[19:12] <The_Fred> its the sarcasm filter that would be problematic
[19:14] <The_Fred> python would be the tool of choice
[19:14] <jacobw> languages are complicated
[19:14] <The_Fred> *from soul import frequency_mystery_system
[19:15] <jacobw> i started answering questions about making a talking bot on #python from CS student
[19:15] <The_Fred> how did it pan out?
[19:15] <jacobw> i don't have any credentials in CS, some students are just lazy
[19:15] <The_Fred> oh, thats so true
[19:15] <jacobw> how can someone not understand markov chains :|
[19:15] <ali1234> everyone has to start somewhere
[19:16] <The_Fred> when i was at uni i had 3 people on the course offer to pay me for doing their assignment!
[19:17] <The_Fred> jacobw, refresh my memory: what are markov chains?
[19:17]  * The_Fred fires up google search
[19:18] <jacobw> a stateless finite state machine
[19:19] <jacobw> actually that's the most stupid thing i've ever said
[19:19] <The_Fred> its ok, i got it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_chain
[19:20] <jacobw> it's a finite state machine where the next state is independent of previous states
[19:20] <The_Fred> i think it can be used in a machine learning program, but it cant recall how it learned...
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> magics
[19:21] <jacobw> so its very computable because the transformations can be reduced without keeping track of previous states
[19:22] <The_Fred> hmm, this looks handy for my next bout of hardware hacking: http://hackaday.com/2012/06/29/using-your-bench-tools-to-test-a-new-display/
[19:23]  * popey has food!
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> popey: delicious foodses?
[19:23] <jacobw> useful for constructing sentences, if current word is a verb next word can be a pronoun or an object select and repeat
[19:23] <popey> ya
[19:24]  * MartijnVdS saw a track inspection train today
[19:24]  * jacobw is hungry because he's too shy to go to nearby resturant :|
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> <-- exciting life
[19:24] <jacobw> track inspection?
[19:24] <The_Fred> jacobw, i was developing a system to automate surveys... i had multiple virtual profiles... it didnt go well
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: yeah they make videos of the track, and compare/analyse to determine wear
[19:25] <jacobw> ah, interesting :)
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: and which places need maintenance most
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: check my G+ for a pic :)
[19:25]  * jacobw checks
[19:25] <The_Fred> is there a link?
[19:25] <The_Fred> please
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> 21:20 < jacobw> it's a finite state machine where the next state is independent  of previous states
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> uhr
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> https://plus.google.com/100189567362844794281/posts/JJE8DCHYXZ4
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> The_Fred: ^
[19:26] <The_Fred> thanks
[19:27] <jacobw> ooh shiny
[19:27] <The_Fred> thats cool
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> it was going back and forth over those tracks while I waited for my train to arrive
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> (every bit once)
[19:28] <brobostigon> i am trying to describe what a lap steel guitar, is to someone, and i htink i am failing, it should be simple.
[19:29] <ali1234> what
[19:29] <ali1234> tell them to look on wikipedia?
[19:29] <brobostigon> ali1234: i think i will do.
[19:29] <The_Fred> brobostigon, its a guitar that lays across the lap and is played with a metal bar
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Lap.. like what a dog does..
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: but first.. steal a guitar
[19:30] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: haha, but yes, that would work. :)
[19:30] <brobostigon> The_Fred: exactly, yes.
[19:31] <The_Fred> i know a chap who plays one... he's amasing - can pick up any instrucment and just play it
[19:31] <brobostigon> The_Fred: i saw one in town this afternoon, for sale,
[19:31] <ali1234> super furry animals' phantom power album has a lot of steel guitar on it
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> what? a chap who can play any instrument? :P
[19:31] <brobostigon> The_Fred: i play percussion, not strings.
[19:32] <The_Fred> ah i see
[19:32] <The_Fred> whole diffent game
[19:32] <brobostigon> agreed.
[19:33] <ali1234> eg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvF7T1volgA
[19:33] <The_Fred> right folks im off - my lad is here and wants us to chill and watch a film
[19:33] <brobostigon> The_Fred: but it has always stuck in my head, since i first heard pink floyd as a 5 year old.
[19:34] <The_Fred> brobostigon, pink floyd are amasing
[19:34]  * MartijnVdS watches "Synth Britannia"
[19:34] <ali1234> that song also contains the line "i program robots to make them lie" which is awesome
[19:34] <brobostigon> thqvery yes.
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> (recorded)
[19:34] <The_Fred> anyhow folk im outta here, catch you in the week, have fun, stay safe and all that:)
[19:34] <brobostigon> bye The_Fred o/
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n93c6
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: a bunch of The Who tonight on Beeb Four
[19:35] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: cool, :)
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> from 21:00 UK time
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> almost 4 hours
[19:36] <brobostigon> so in about 25 mins.
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> yes
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/tv/guide
[19:37] <brobostigon> :)
[19:37] <brobostigon> thank you MartijnVdS
[19:37]  * MartijnVdS has his record-from-satellite scripts ready :)
[19:37] <brobostigon> :0
[19:38] <brobostigon> :)
[19:38] <brobostigon> get_iplayer :)
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> Sure, but this is more fun :)
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> also, higher res!
[19:38] <brobostigon> it can pick in HD.
[19:39] <MartijnVdS> I've used a lot of bandwidth on my VPS this month
[19:39] <MartijnVdS> so I'll stick to timeout + dd + projectx + handbrake :)
[19:39] <ali1234> iplayer HD isn't real HD
[19:39] <MartijnVdS> it's 720
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> which looks just as good as the 1080i on satellite
[19:40] <ali1234> that's strike 1
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> (note the 'i'nterlaceing)
[19:40] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i barely hit 10% of my vps's last month.
[19:40] <ali1234> uk digital terrestrial is all 1080p afaik
[19:41] <ali1234> dunno what they do on satellite
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I do know what they do on sat, and it's interlaced ;0
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> ;)
[19:41] <brobostigon> actually, no, thats wrong, it comes to over 1%.
[19:41] <ali1234> 1080p is all 30fps though, so it looks really flickery
[19:41] <ali1234> kind of annoying if you don't have a fancy TV that does frame morphing
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: apparently it's both i and p on terrestrial.. depending on what they're broadcasting
[19:42] <ali1234> i can believe that
[19:42] <ali1234> i bet sports are all i
[19:42] <ali1234> but i never watch those
[19:43] <brobostigon> 0.29gb from 200gb.
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> I have no idea where I can see how much I used this month
[19:43] <brobostigon> was last month.
[19:44] <popey> is the bbc stuff filmed in 1080p?
[19:44] <popey> and downscaled for transmission?
[19:44] <ali1234> must be
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> popey: It seems to depend
[19:44] <ali1234> although it depends what you mean by 1080p
[19:44] <popey> i guess if doctor who on blueray is 1080p..
[19:44] <brobostigon> 2.26 of 200.00 GB on my other.
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> popey: but Torchwood S1 is 1080i
[19:45] <popey> so, telly question
[19:45] <popey> someone has offered me a telly for 250 quid
[19:45] <ali1234> popey: blu-rays do not support 1080p60
[19:45] <popey> 42LH3000 LG
[19:45] <popey> worth 250?
[19:45] <ali1234> at least the spec doesn't
[19:45] <AlanBell> you can get a lot of new telly for £250
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> popey: lowest "new" price was €455 on april
[19:46] <popey> a decent (i.e. not matsui) one?
[19:46] <brobostigon> agreed.
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> in april*
[19:46] <ali1234> get one of those 100Hz with frame morphing
[19:46] <ali1234> they are amazing
[19:48] <AlanBell> popey: the new model LG is £329
[19:48] <AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/LG-42CS460-42-inch-Widescreen-Freeview/dp/B007IYVUBY/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
[19:49]  * brobostigon winders how much a lap steel costs.
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Recording-King-RG-Lap-Steel/dp/B001WAKUEI
[19:50] <AlanBell> popey: and I am sure the Ubuntu TV will be much better value and in the shops real soon now ;)
[19:50] <ali1234> couple of hundred for a good one i'd guess
[19:51] <brobostigon> holy crap.
[19:51] <brobostigon> sorry
[19:51] <ali1234> what?
[19:52] <ali1234> decent quality instruments are expensive :)
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> poo with holes in it.
[19:52] <brobostigon> ali1234: agreed. yes.
[19:53] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: also, quadraphenia, on after.
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yes
[19:53] <brobostigon> quadrophnia*
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> 4 hours of Who (no not THAT who)
[19:54] <brobostigon> :_)
[19:54] <brobostigon> :)
[19:55] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: you know animal, from the muppets.
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> of course
[19:55] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i was compared to him, the other day.
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Did someone shout "You muppet!" ? :P
[19:56] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: no.
[19:57] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: but the hair, and playing the drums, and being wild sometimes.
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> is your hair red as well? :)
[19:58] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it is a light browsny colour,
[19:58]  * MartijnVdS switches to Beeb 4
[19:59] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i thin the person was referring more to the wild hair, that the colour,
[19:59] <brobostigon> berr topup.
[19:59] <brobostigon> beer*
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.zazzle.nl/niet_uw_ochtendkoffie_nog_hebben_gehad_mok-168488566979578302
[20:01] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: haha, :)
[20:03] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: and ofcourse monster, apparently being inspired by keith moon.
[20:03] <brobostigon> animal*
[20:05] <brobostigon> one amazing drummer there.
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I have an "Animal" puppet here somewhere
[20:13] <DJones> ok, I'm suitably impressed, new all-in-one printer works perfectly by wireless, even wireless scanning
[20:13] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: hehe :)
[20:14] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: my mum sugegsted, a drum bagm with such a picture imprinted.
[20:17]  * popey watches "The Widow and the Wardrobe"
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: don't cry!
[20:18] <popey> hah
[20:18] <popey> too late
[21:01] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Put the chocolate on the moose - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/06/29/put-the-chocolate-on-the-moose
[21:09] <MartijnVdS> aquarius++
[21:10] <MartijnVdS> nice script :)
[21:11] <directhex> how can i record an RDP session?
[21:11] <MartijnVdS> directhex: tcpdump?
[21:11] <MartijnVdS> directhex: that or popey knows
[21:11] <popey> kazam
[21:12] <MartijnVdS> see, popey knows all :)
[21:12] <popey> :)
[21:14] <brobostigon> somehow, keith moon seems familier, about also so distent. as in a different way, david gilmour does with shine on, about sud barrett.
[21:14] <directhex> popey, kazam doesn't seem to record from rdp, it just records the screen
[21:14] <brobostigon> some one qho shined, but became a minor of what he was.
[21:15] <brobostigon> who*
[21:15] <popey> wat
[21:15] <popey> directhex, correct
[21:16] <brobostigon> saying that, it reminds me, of myself.
[21:16] <popey> directhex, according to google, seems like something a lot of people want to do, maybe someone should write an app to do that
[21:18] <ali1234> how would you play it back?
[21:19] <ali1234> you would have to make it into a video anyway
[21:19] <ali1234> or write a special program
[21:19] <ali1234> might as well just use a screen recorder
[21:20] <popey> depends how you write the frames out to disk
[21:20] <ali1234> i had an idea actually to make a sockets wrapper that does packet replaying
[21:20] <popey> but yeah, send each full frame through ffmpeg/libav/whatever
[21:20] <Darael> Depends what you're after, no?  If you want to do something repeatedly, some kind of keyboard-and-mouse macro recording software, maybe?
[21:20] <popey> a guy I know used to record x sessions on the network
[21:20] <popey> and replay them
[21:21] <ali1234> cos i had no end of problems trying to archive webpages by recording the transactions
[21:21] <ali1234> like, webpage complete?
[21:21] <ali1234> there's no such thing if it has flash or ajax
[21:21] <ali1234> but if i record every connection the browser makes and everything sent in both directions
[21:22] <ali1234> then i can replay it back into the browser
[21:22] <ali1234> assuming no user interaction of course
[21:23] <ali1234> would also need to disable things like certificate expiry
[21:32]  * Laney meows
[21:32] <Laney> I need to move out into my own place, mainly so that I can acquire cats. Cats are good.
[21:34] <brobostigon> animal fur sets of allergies.
[21:34] <popey> https://twitter.com/popey/status/216579058023153665/photo/1/large
[21:34] <brobostigon> off*
[21:34] <popey> RAWR!
[21:34] <popey> nah, allerpet fixes that brobostigon
[21:34] <popey> http://www.amazon.com/Allerpet-Grooming-Emollient-Cats-12/dp/B000S0L0M4
[21:34] <brobostigon> popey: umm?
[21:34] <Laney> natural selection
[21:34] <brobostigon> oh.
[21:35] <Laney> you no love my cat, you no love me
[21:35] <ali1234> you could also shave the cats
[21:36] <ali1234> http://www.wikihow.com/Shave-a-Cat
[21:36] <Laney> never.
[21:37] <directhex> popey, kazam is Good Enough, if i put the VM window in the right place
[21:37] <brobostigon> popey: interesting idea, but it wont solve the problem, id there is any contact,
[21:37] <brobostigon> if*
[21:37] <popey> brobostigon, my wife was allergic. we used it, now she isnt
[21:37] <popey> not just an idea :)
[21:38] <Laney> do you really have to do it 2-3 times a week?
[21:38] <brobostigon> popey: he allergy probably wont change, unless her immune system changes, which is the basis of allergies.
[21:38] <Laney> I can't imagine our cats at home tolerating that ...
[21:38] <brobostigon> her*
[21:39] <directhex> avoid cats, get hypoallergenic pets
[21:39] <directhex> like chinchillas
[21:39] <ali1234> or snakes
[21:39] <Laney> it's cat or house pig
[21:39] <brobostigon> best, none at all.
[21:39] <Laney> brobostigon meldrew
[21:39] <brobostigon> thanks Laney
[21:39] <Laney> :P
[21:40] <ali1234> or how about some fish?
[21:40] <brobostigon> nope, also allergic to.
[21:40] <Laney> they have to be huggable
[21:40] <Laney> maybe a house rabbit would be acceptable
[21:40] <Laney> but you can't litter tray train them, apparently
[21:41] <popey> brobostigon, well, I'm just speaking from experience of someone who was allergic, and now shows no symptoms and has had two cats for 10+ years
[21:42] <popey> .. and we used allerpet c when we first got the cats
[21:42] <brobostigon> popey: ok,i understand, yes. but i speak, from what i know of the science of allergies and eczema.
[21:43] <brobostigon> and alletgies, are generallt considered, a malfunction in the immune-system.
[21:43] <popey> ok, maybe I misworded it
[21:43] <popey> but the fact is she shows no more cat allergy symptoms
[21:43] <popey> unless she picks a cat up and basically rubs it in her eyes
[21:43] <brobostigon> thats good and impressive.
[21:43] <popey> which is a) stupid, and b) surprisingly common
[21:43] <directhex> floooooooof
[21:43] <brobostigon> agreed.
[21:44] <brobostigon> but that pretty much applies to any contact, those parameters.
[21:45] <brobostigon> ie, touch,
[21:47] <popey> I also have a friend who was allergic to alcohol.. poor chap
[21:47] <popey> he had to avoid most body care products as well as imbibing booze
[21:47] <popey> so puff was his drug of choice
[21:47] <popey> then one day I bumped into him at a party and he was drinking beer..
[21:47] <popey> I said "hey, surely you're going to get super ill with that!?"
[21:48] <popey> "no", he said. "I got over it"
[21:48] <popey> When I inquired further. he'd got so pissed off with it that he decided to try to get over it by consuming vast amounts of it
[21:48] <popey> spent an entire weekend drinking, throwing up, drinking, throwing up..
[21:48] <popey> (a typical night in for daviey)
[21:49] <popey> and after that.. his tolerance for alcohol was much higher..
[21:49] <ali1234> if you can do that without dying it's not a real allergy
[21:49] <popey> well indeed
[21:49] <ali1234> just sayin'
[21:49] <popey> it was fun tho :)
[21:50] <brobostigon> so he was alllergic to ethanol ?
[21:51] <popey> I didn't investigate this much further
[21:51] <popey> I only ever bumped into him at parties
[21:51] <brobostigon> ok.
[21:51] <popey> where one or both of us was drunk or stoned
[21:51] <popey> so anyway.. cats!
[21:51] <brobostigon> ah.
[21:53] <brobostigon> i am decidedly too tired, to get into a scientific discussion about biology and chemistry.
[21:53] <Laney> perusing http://www.nottingham.cats.org.uk/nottingham/adopt-a-cat-page
[21:53] <ali1234> TOO LATE
[21:54] <ali1234> those cats all look like mental house destroyers
[21:55] <popey> scooby looks fun
[21:55] <brobostigon> so does kylie.
[21:56] <popey> oh, i thought we were looking at cats?
[21:56] <Laney> scooby definitely knows how to have a good time
[21:57]  * Laney managed to get onto Page 3 of 2
[21:57] <Laney> now 4. this site be bugged
[21:57] <brobostigon> made me laugh, a kitty name sugesstion in a tweet, my bojangles. :)
[21:57] <brobostigon> mr*
[22:00] <Laney> right, forget cats. weird psychological dramas it is: http://io9.com/5922490/a-bizarre-student-film-about-the-hidden-number-that-exists-between-3-and-4
[22:01] <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFs319ECDEM&feature=youtu.be
[22:01] <ali1234> is it 3.5?
[22:02] <Laney> 3.5, that famous integer
[22:02] <popey> hahah
[22:02] <popey> i wish we had a quotebot
[22:04] <popey> bleem?
[22:04] <popey> wasnt that an emulator?
[22:04] <ali1234> yes
[22:06] <directhex> bleem was a paid psx emulator, iirc?
[22:16] <popey> Laney, thanks, enjoyed that
[22:17] <Laney> yeah, it's quite well done
[22:17] <brobostigon> sleep well, buys and gals.
[22:59] <Azelphur> who says you need windows to get the most out of fancy gaming hardware, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/June/2012-06-29-235844_800x585_scrot.png :D
[23:02] <directhex> sweet!
[23:02] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] The ethical problem with technology prices - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2012/06/the-ethical-problem-with-technology-prices/
[23:02] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jo Shields] How to build a bungalow& begin with the chimney - http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/442/
[23:02] <Azelphur> gnome15 ftw \o/