| philipballew | MarkDude, no can do today | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| MarkDude | ok philipballew | 00:04 |
| MarkDude | next time | 00:04 |
| philipballew | no worries | 00:05 |
| Darkwing-laptop | pleia2: ping | 01:08 |
| Darkwing-laptop | bkerensa: ping | 01:26 |
| bkerensa | Darkwing-laptop: hi | 01:26 |
| Darkwing-laptop | bkerensa: care for a PM? | 01:26 |
| bkerensa | Darkwing-laptop: I love a good PM | 01:26 |
| Darkwing-laptop | Well, looks like my time in California is almost at an end. | 02:06 |
| DonkeyHotei | WHAT?? | 02:06 |
| Darkwing-laptop | Yeah, got accepted to school in Indiana. | 02:06 |
| DonkeyHotei | well, at least it's not mississippi again | 02:07 |
| Darkwing-laptop | Hellz no. | 02:07 |
| Darkwing-laptop | lol | 02:07 |
| Darkwing-laptop | although, my kids are there | 02:07 |
| DonkeyHotei | in MS? they went back there? | 02:07 |
| Darkwing-laptop | Yeah, me and the wife are divorced. | 02:08 |
| Darkwing-laptop | I'm going to school in Fort Wayne, IN and will be a lot closer to them. | 02:08 |
| DonkeyHotei | that i remember. i just didn't think THERE of all places | 02:08 |
| Darkwing-laptop | Yeah lol. | 02:09 |
| Darkwing-laptop | I have family there | 02:09 |
| DonkeyHotei | in MS?? | 02:09 |
| Darkwing-laptop | Indiana. | 02:09 |
| Darkwing-laptop | The Ex is from Indiana | 02:09 |
| Darkwing-laptop | dammit | 02:09 |
| Darkwing-laptop | the ex is from Ms | 02:09 |
| DonkeyHotei | ohh | 02:09 |
| Darkwing-laptop | Looks like the Indiana Team is close to dead. | 02:09 |
| DonkeyHotei | don't be a stranger | 02:10 |
| DonkeyHotei | we've lost people to geography before | 02:10 |
| Darkwing-laptop | Yeah, I was still around when I was in MS :D | 02:10 |
| Darkwing-laptop | I'll be offline/online quite a bit over the next several months. | 02:11 |
| DonkeyHotei | i still have your number | 02:11 |
| Darkwing-laptop | Yup. | 02:11 |
| Darkwing-laptop | I'm going through a bunch of the moving stuff right now so I'm not up on how the ZaTab is doing. | 02:11 |
| Darkwing-laptop | But, I should be smoothing out in the next couple months. | 02:12 |
| DonkeyHotei | no worries | 02:12 |
| DonkeyHotei | i'm having a bit of a transition myself atm, but i'll check with rodrigo afterward | 02:12 |
| Darkwing-laptop | sweet. :D | 02:13 |
| philipballew | Fort Wayne is a nice area. Been there several times. | 03:20 |
| bkerensa | pleia2: does California print trifolds at all? =o these prices are intense | 18:13 |
| pleia2 | we have berkeleylug do it (they accept donations from their lug members) | 18:14 |
| pleia2 | they get them via vistaprint.com | 18:14 |
| bkerensa | I will check that now | 18:14 |
| pleia2 | they have deals often | 18:15 |
| bkerensa | yeah vistaprint seems more reasonable then kinkos and local printers | 18:16 |
| bkerensa | do you know how long it takes them to print? I was going to order them myself next friday but I need them by like the 16th | 18:16 |
| pleia2 | they take a while, you can do rush printing but then you pretty much lose any of the cost benefit | 18:19 |
| bkerensa | =/ | 18:20 |
| bkerensa | hmm maybe I will ask the loco if they wanna chip in although some dont like the idea of paying out of pocket to print stuff that ultimately supports Canonical | 18:21 |
| bkerensa | =/ | 18:21 |
| === ryaxnb_ is now known as ryaxnb620 | ||
| pleia2 | bkerensa: it supports all companies who are deploying and supporting Ubuntu (Canonical is not the only one, by far) | 18:33 |
| pleia2 | and more users is really good for all of us :) | 18:34 |
| bkerensa | I know :P but some people dont like the idea of corporations | 18:34 |
| bkerensa | including the person who made our brochure | 18:34 |
| bkerensa | :) | 18:34 |
| bkerensa | his caveat was he would never print any or distribute any because he thought we were just making MarkS richer | 18:34 |
| bkerensa | ;p | 18:34 |
| bkerensa | and I said ok :) | 18:34 |
| pleia2 | he knows Mark loses money on Ubuntu, right? | 18:35 |
| pleia2 | I don't really buy those claims that LoCos are Marketing departments for Canonical, the company *I* work for has Ubuntu deployments too, I make part of my paycheck from Ubuntu | 18:35 |
| pleia2 | anyway, there is no changing the minds of some people, so I probably shouldn't try :) | 18:36 |
| bkerensa | I have used Ubuntu for years so I dont see it as promoting Canonical | 18:37 |
| bkerensa | :) | 18:37 |
| MarkDude | MArk S may do stuff to help himslef, but he does things to make it great for many | 18:37 |
| MarkDude | beyond just Ubuntu users also | 18:37 |
| bkerensa | pleia2: is there any winning to the RH fanboy complaint of Canonical/Ubuntu does not contribute to upstream? :) | 18:38 |
| bkerensa | I mean its unfounded | 18:39 |
| pleia2 | bkerensa: no, there are statistics that back up both sides, don't bother | 18:39 |
| MarkDude | Its a no-win | 18:40 |
| MarkDude | to argue over it | 18:40 |
| MarkDude | Rh types miss that Ubunut does great publicity | 18:40 |
| MarkDude | on a level no one has done- or maybe could do | 18:41 |
| MarkDude | these people get involved in FOSS | 18:41 |
| MarkDude | THAT helps everyone | 18:41 |
| bkerensa | MarkDude: Its not only about publicity... Almost every patch or bug fixed benefits upstream unless we maintain the package in Ubuntu which is not very frequent | 18:41 |
| bkerensa | that means it goes to Debian and often goes all the way upstream | 18:42 |
| MarkDude | true | 18:42 |
| bkerensa | further... Transmission for instance... Fedora uses it right? | 18:42 |
| MarkDude | yep | 18:42 |
| MarkDude | with extra rh legal words.... | 18:43 |
| bkerensa | Mainly developed by a Canonical employee | 18:43 |
| bkerensa | :) | 18:43 |
| bkerensa | with of course some contributors on the side | 18:43 |
| bkerensa | but if you donate money to transmissionbt.org it goes to the Canonical guy who has been developing it for years | 18:43 |
| pleia2 | I don't like the discussion at all, the premise is a competitive, self-rightous "Us vs Them" and that is not awesome | 18:43 |
| MarkDude | MarkDude> Its a no-win | 18:44 |
| MarkDude | <MarkDude> to argue over it | 18:44 |
| * MarkDude agrees | 18:44 | |
| bkerensa | I dont either :) but I dont like it being said that Ubuntu Community and Canonical do not contribute upstream or even "contribute very little" | 18:44 |
| MarkDude | there is some area of talking that helps | 18:44 |
| pleia2 | bkerensa: just let it go | 18:44 |
| bkerensa | kk | 18:45 |
| MarkDude | *ignore it * Ben :) | 18:45 |
| bkerensa | peh :P | 18:45 |
| bkerensa | pleia2: how is Jelly Bean? | 18:45 |
| bkerensa | :) | 18:45 |
| pleia2 | haven't used it! | 18:45 |
| bkerensa | wat! | 18:45 |
| MarkDude | if there is sumthin that is of mutuall help- thats the area to talk about :) | 18:45 |
| bkerensa | Your fiancee didnt go to I/O? | 18:45 |
| bkerensa | :D | 18:45 |
| pleia2 | bkerensa: nope, he's not in the department that does such things | 18:46 |
| pleia2 | he has it on his phone, but I don't use his phone ;) | 18:46 |
| bkerensa | If I knew they were giving away tablets and phones I would have tried to buy a ticket and go | 18:46 |
| MarkDude | Mike had some i/o swag last night at bbq | 18:46 |
| pleia2 | they always give away tablets and phones at google i/o | 18:46 |
| bkerensa | What | 18:46 |
| bkerensa | every year? | 18:46 |
| pleia2 | yes | 18:46 |
| bkerensa | >.< | 18:46 |
| bkerensa | to everyone? | 18:46 |
| pleia2 | that's why people spend the $$ to go :P | 18:46 |
| MarkDude | always some 1st gen toys | 18:46 |
| MarkDude | everyone | 18:46 |
| bkerensa | MarkDude: Next year Im coming to sleep on your couch before I/O | 18:47 |
| MarkDude | sure bkerensa | 18:47 |
| bkerensa | heh | 18:47 |
| MarkDude | geeknic time | 18:47 |
| pleia2 | bkerensa: you're welcome to stay here too, I live a block from Moscone | 18:47 |
| pleia2 | my place is tiny, so you get the couch, but itnet7 can tell you it's not so bad :) | 18:47 |
| bkerensa | lol | 18:48 |
| bkerensa | pleia2: well we will see I hear they sold tickets out in 20 mins | 18:48 |
| bkerensa | so I would have to have money + luck | 18:48 |
| pleia2 | bkerensa: yep | 18:49 |
| akk | Reading scrollback ... stats that back up both sides ... I never see Ubuntu people pointing to the stats supporting Ubuntu contributing upstream. | 18:55 |
| akk | If there are stats on that side, it wouldn't hurt to point to them (I agree on not continuing the argument or getting heated about it). | 18:56 |
| akk | I mean, as a longtime Ubuntu user (and I do think they're benefitting Linux) *I* have the strong impression most of it doesn't go upstream | 18:56 |
| akk | so if I do, a lot of non Ubuntu users do too. | 18:57 |
| pleia2 | most of them are pretty hacked together, a known list of Ubuntu contributors whose email addresses are pulled from debian changelogs and other upstream projects, the redhat stats that started the whole conversation tend to focus on kernel | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | and people who use their @ubuntu.com address to contribute to things (but some debian people have gotten angry about that http://sandrotosi.blogspot.com/2009/11/things-that-make-me-angry.html) | 19:00 |
| darthrobot | Title: [Sandro Tosi: Things that make me angry] | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | and none of the stats ever included me (I'm not known for dev stuff, and I don't use my @ubuntu.com address for stuff outside Ubuntu) | 19:01 |
| akk | That's really weird, getting angry about submissions from @ubuntu.com. I don't get it. | 19:02 |
| akk | Sounds like the real issue is that Ubuntu doesn't track their developers submitting to upstream projects, and RH does. | 19:03 |
| akk | Might not be too hard to make a list of Canonical employees and the email addresses they use for upstream contributions, then count those as a start. | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | yeah, RH is a big company and people are getting paid for the work, Ubuntu has a lot of community developers who don't get counted (like me) and I don't think Canonical is so strict about tracking and reporting all the work their employees do upstream | 19:04 |
| akk | (obviously not as interesting as counting contributions of all ubuntu members, but I guess it would be harder to cat-herd them all into listing their email addresses?) | 19:05 |
| pleia2 | RH has almost 4000 employees, I think canonical has around 600 maybe | 19:05 |
| akk | A per-employee number would still be an interesting stat. | 19:05 |
| pleia2 | I think as Canonical matures as a company they may start keeping better track, but it's tough to make that economical when you're small | 19:06 |
| pleia2 | I don't know the true answer either way, and it's all so subjective once you really get talking about "value added to the open source world" | 19:09 |
| scientes | only 4000? | 20:56 |
| scientes | i would suspect more being they are a fortune 500 company | 20:57 |
| pleia2 | http://investors.redhat.com/faq.cfm As of February 28, 2011 Red Hat had approximately 3,760 employees worldwide. | 20:57 |
| darthrobot | Title: [Red Hat, Inc. - Investor FAQs] | 20:57 |
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