[00:00] MarkDude, no can do today [00:04] ok philipballew [00:04] next time [00:05] no worries [01:08] pleia2: ping [01:26] bkerensa: ping [01:26] Darkwing-laptop: hi [01:26] bkerensa: care for a PM? [01:26] Darkwing-laptop: I love a good PM [02:06] Well, looks like my time in California is almost at an end. [02:06] WHAT?? [02:06] Yeah, got accepted to school in Indiana. [02:07] well, at least it's not mississippi again [02:07] Hellz no. [02:07] lol [02:07] although, my kids are there [02:07] in MS? they went back there? [02:08] Yeah, me and the wife are divorced. [02:08] I'm going to school in Fort Wayne, IN and will be a lot closer to them. [02:08] that i remember. i just didn't think THERE of all places [02:09] Yeah lol. [02:09] I have family there [02:09] in MS?? [02:09] Indiana. [02:09] The Ex is from Indiana [02:09] dammit [02:09] the ex is from Ms [02:09] ohh [02:09] Looks like the Indiana Team is close to dead. [02:10] don't be a stranger [02:10] we've lost people to geography before [02:10] Yeah, I was still around when I was in MS :D [02:11] I'll be offline/online quite a bit over the next several months. [02:11] i still have your number [02:11] Yup. [02:11] I'm going through a bunch of the moving stuff right now so I'm not up on how the ZaTab is doing. [02:12] But, I should be smoothing out in the next couple months. [02:12] no worries [02:12] i'm having a bit of a transition myself atm, but i'll check with rodrigo afterward [02:13] sweet. :D [03:20] Fort Wayne is a nice area. Been there several times. [18:13] pleia2: does California print trifolds at all? =o these prices are intense [18:14] we have berkeleylug do it (they accept donations from their lug members) [18:14] they get them via vistaprint.com [18:14] I will check that now [18:15] they have deals often [18:16] yeah vistaprint seems more reasonable then kinkos and local printers [18:16] do you know how long it takes them to print? I was going to order them myself next friday but I need them by like the 16th [18:19] they take a while, you can do rush printing but then you pretty much lose any of the cost benefit [18:20] =/ [18:21] hmm maybe I will ask the loco if they wanna chip in although some dont like the idea of paying out of pocket to print stuff that ultimately supports Canonical [18:21] =/ === ryaxnb_ is now known as ryaxnb620 [18:33] bkerensa: it supports all companies who are deploying and supporting Ubuntu (Canonical is not the only one, by far) [18:34] and more users is really good for all of us :) [18:34] I know :P but some people dont like the idea of corporations [18:34] including the person who made our brochure [18:34] :) [18:34] his caveat was he would never print any or distribute any because he thought we were just making MarkS richer [18:34] ;p [18:34] and I said ok :) [18:35] he knows Mark loses money on Ubuntu, right? [18:35] I don't really buy those claims that LoCos are Marketing departments for Canonical, the company *I* work for has Ubuntu deployments too, I make part of my paycheck from Ubuntu [18:36] anyway, there is no changing the minds of some people, so I probably shouldn't try :) [18:37] I have used Ubuntu for years so I dont see it as promoting Canonical [18:37] :) [18:37] MArk S may do stuff to help himslef, but he does things to make it great for many [18:37] beyond just Ubuntu users also [18:38] pleia2: is there any winning to the RH fanboy complaint of Canonical/Ubuntu does not contribute to upstream? :) [18:39] I mean its unfounded [18:39] bkerensa: no, there are statistics that back up both sides, don't bother [18:40] Its a no-win [18:40] to argue over it [18:40] Rh types miss that Ubunut does great publicity [18:41] on a level no one has done- or maybe could do [18:41] these people get involved in FOSS [18:41] THAT helps everyone [18:41] MarkDude: Its not only about publicity... Almost every patch or bug fixed benefits upstream unless we maintain the package in Ubuntu which is not very frequent [18:42] that means it goes to Debian and often goes all the way upstream [18:42] true [18:42] further... Transmission for instance... Fedora uses it right? [18:42] yep [18:43] with extra rh legal words.... [18:43] Mainly developed by a Canonical employee [18:43] :) [18:43] with of course some contributors on the side [18:43] but if you donate money to transmissionbt.org it goes to the Canonical guy who has been developing it for years [18:43] I don't like the discussion at all, the premise is a competitive, self-rightous "Us vs Them" and that is not awesome [18:44] MarkDude> Its a no-win [18:44] to argue over it [18:44] * MarkDude agrees [18:44] I dont either :) but I dont like it being said that Ubuntu Community and Canonical do not contribute upstream or even "contribute very little" [18:44] there is some area of talking that helps [18:44] bkerensa: just let it go [18:45] kk [18:45] *ignore it * Ben :) [18:45] peh :P [18:45] pleia2: how is Jelly Bean? [18:45] :) [18:45] haven't used it! [18:45] wat! [18:45] if there is sumthin that is of mutuall help- thats the area to talk about :) [18:45] Your fiancee didnt go to I/O? [18:45] :D [18:46] bkerensa: nope, he's not in the department that does such things [18:46] he has it on his phone, but I don't use his phone ;) [18:46] If I knew they were giving away tablets and phones I would have tried to buy a ticket and go [18:46] Mike had some i/o swag last night at bbq [18:46] they always give away tablets and phones at google i/o [18:46] What [18:46] every year? [18:46] yes [18:46] >.< [18:46] to everyone? [18:46] that's why people spend the $$ to go :P [18:46] always some 1st gen toys [18:46] everyone [18:47] MarkDude: Next year Im coming to sleep on your couch before I/O [18:47] sure bkerensa [18:47] heh [18:47] geeknic time [18:47] bkerensa: you're welcome to stay here too, I live a block from Moscone [18:47] my place is tiny, so you get the couch, but itnet7 can tell you it's not so bad :) [18:48] lol [18:48] pleia2: well we will see I hear they sold tickets out in 20 mins [18:48] so I would have to have money + luck [18:49] bkerensa: yep [18:55] Reading scrollback ... stats that back up both sides ... I never see Ubuntu people pointing to the stats supporting Ubuntu contributing upstream. [18:56] If there are stats on that side, it wouldn't hurt to point to them (I agree on not continuing the argument or getting heated about it). [18:56] I mean, as a longtime Ubuntu user (and I do think they're benefitting Linux) *I* have the strong impression most of it doesn't go upstream [18:57] so if I do, a lot of non Ubuntu users do too. [19:00] most of them are pretty hacked together, a known list of Ubuntu contributors whose email addresses are pulled from debian changelogs and other upstream projects, the redhat stats that started the whole conversation tend to focus on kernel [19:00] and people who use their @ubuntu.com address to contribute to things (but some debian people have gotten angry about that http://sandrotosi.blogspot.com/2009/11/things-that-make-me-angry.html) [19:00] Title: [Sandro Tosi: Things that make me angry] [19:01] and none of the stats ever included me (I'm not known for dev stuff, and I don't use my @ubuntu.com address for stuff outside Ubuntu) [19:02] That's really weird, getting angry about submissions from @ubuntu.com. I don't get it. [19:03] Sounds like the real issue is that Ubuntu doesn't track their developers submitting to upstream projects, and RH does. [19:04] Might not be too hard to make a list of Canonical employees and the email addresses they use for upstream contributions, then count those as a start. [19:04] yeah, RH is a big company and people are getting paid for the work, Ubuntu has a lot of community developers who don't get counted (like me) and I don't think Canonical is so strict about tracking and reporting all the work their employees do upstream [19:05] (obviously not as interesting as counting contributions of all ubuntu members, but I guess it would be harder to cat-herd them all into listing their email addresses?) [19:05] RH has almost 4000 employees, I think canonical has around 600 maybe [19:05] A per-employee number would still be an interesting stat. [19:06] I think as Canonical matures as a company they may start keeping better track, but it's tough to make that economical when you're small [19:09] I don't know the true answer either way, and it's all so subjective once you really get talking about "value added to the open source world" [20:56] only 4000? [20:57] i would suspect more being they are a fortune 500 company [20:57] http://investors.redhat.com/faq.cfm As of February 28, 2011 Red Hat had approximately 3,760 employees worldwide. [20:57] Title: [Red Hat, Inc. - Investor FAQs]