| crond | Is it normal to have higher CPU temps in Unity than in XFCE? | 02:10 |
|---|---|---|
| DarwinSurvivor | crond: yes, especially if you don't have proper video card support on your machine | 02:29 |
| crond | DarwinSurvivor, I do | 02:30 |
| crond | I have the same video support in either, bumblebee is working right | 02:31 |
| crond | just I am on average 5c hotter in Unity | 02:31 |
| crond | and I was curious as to why | 02:31 |
| crond | I still havent passed 74c so I'm not worried. It's just weird (thats playing Wow on my nvidia card via bumblebee. Under just the Intel I am at 47-50c) | 02:32 |
| DarwinSurvivor | oh, if it's only 5c I wouldn't worry about that. Just the additional services unity runs (messaging menu, compiz, etc) will do that | 02:32 |
| crond | ahh okay | 02:32 |
| crond | yeah its not a MAJOR difference, just enough to be noted and odd | 02:32 |
| crond | and its not like I wasn't using compositing in XFCE | 02:32 |
| crond | I had awn and whatnot running in that | 02:32 |
| crond | I'm not minding Unity though | 02:35 |
| crond | I am however skeptical about canonical giving in to Microsoft | 02:35 |
| crond | on the UEFI thing | 02:35 |
| DarwinSurvivor | gtg, back in an hour | 02:37 |
| crond | cya | 02:42 |
| james_w | giving in to microsoft? | 02:44 |
| crond | james_w, they're using MS key to sign UEFI firmware instead of pressing for that crap not to be used in general on PCs. | 02:45 |
| james_w | I work for canonical fwiw | 02:47 |
| james_w | no involvement with the uefi stuff though | 02:47 |
| james_w | by pressing for it not to be used, you mean not working on systems that have secure boot enabled with only Microsoft's key in the db? | 02:48 |
| crond | james_w, I mean if everyone presses for UEFI to not be used in OEMs at all, that'd be better. | 02:48 |
| james_w | uefi, or secure boot? | 02:48 |
| crond | just seems... shortsighted to depend on MS in any way to be able to boot Linux | 02:49 |
| crond | james_w, uh, I guess secure boot yes | 02:49 |
| crond | my bad | 02:49 |
| james_w | you think that canonical has the sway with OEMs to stop any of them using secure boot at all? | 02:49 |
| james_w | when currently that would be asking them not to ship any machines with Windows 8? | 02:50 |
| crond | james_w, I think that if large amounts of vendors/users/etc stood against it, that requirement would get removed | 02:50 |
| crond | instead of people just going with it | 02:51 |
| crond | perhaps I'm assuming too much as far as people caring, however | 02:51 |
| james_w | I agree that if all OEMs said that it would get removed by Microsoft from their logo requirements, but I don't see them doing that | 02:51 |
| crond | james_w, well, I'm hoping that HP's move in refusing to make win8 ARM tablets will be followed and maybe undermine microsoft (due to them marketing surface tablets against their OEMs products) | 02:54 |
| crond | but thats probably wishful thinking | 02:54 |
| james_w | yeah, ARM is certainly an area where they can't throw their weight around as much | 02:54 |
| james_w | another part of this it that we'd actually like secure boot if implemented right | 02:55 |
| james_w | if it improved security while preserving user freedom | 02:55 |
| crond | well, how does secure boot affect people who, say, use LFS or something to roll their own Linux? Or do you mean, make end users able to turn it off/self-sign keys? | 02:56 |
| james_w | yeah, I'd support allowing users to turn it off or insert their own keys if they want to do that sort of thing | 02:57 |
| james_w | the issue is that secure boot has been reduced to a key management problem, and we haven't got good answers for that yet | 02:57 |
| crond | hmm yeah. How long till devices using it start coming out? I saw the qemu supports it in software now apparently. | 02:58 |
| james_w | I'm not exactly sure, but within months I expect | 02:58 |
| james_w | Windows 8 is scheduled for the fall I think? | 02:58 |
| crond | hm. Well, I'm sticking to BIOS systems until that gets figured. | 02:58 |
| crond | yeah I think you're right. | 02:58 |
| james_w | both Microsoft's and Canonical's requirements state that you should be able to disable secure boot and add your own keys IIRC | 03:04 |
| james_w | so it's mainly a question of how to support the users who won't want to do that | 03:05 |
| james_w | but I wouldn't wait until someone has cracked key management :-) | 03:05 |
| james_w | it might take 50 years, it may even be impossible | 03:05 |
| crond | well hopefully stuff with ship with the ability to disable it, but I'm not holding my breath. Cept maybe OEMs like System 76, PenguinComputing, or Zareason. | 03:06 |
| james_w | http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/13713.html | 03:06 |
| james_w | so anything certified ubuntu should be fine | 03:07 |
| crond | Nice | 03:07 |
| crond | I'd rather not pay the extra price of ordering from an ubuntu OEM (Unless Dell decides to sell ubuntu notebooks in Canada again), but I will if I have to | 03:08 |
| james_w | I'm hoping they release project sputnik in Canada, it's a nice bit of kit | 03:09 |
| crond | Hm so all Ubuntu certified HW has to have Microsoft's key too? That ONLY means that Ubuntu-certified HW can run Windows too, yeah? | 03:09 |
| james_w | http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/9844.html | 03:09 |
| james_w | found it | 03:09 |
| james_w | so Windows specifies that users can disable secure boot | 03:10 |
| crond | wait signed kernel? | 03:10 |
| james_w | I'm not sure what all the consequences of it are, but yeah, you can likely boot Windows too | 03:10 |
| crond | I could compilemy own kernel? | 03:10 |
| crond | *couldnt | 03:10 |
| james_w | not without disabling secure boot | 03:10 |
| james_w | but Ubuntu's current plan is to not sign kernels | 03:10 |
| crond | hm | 03:11 |
| crond | okay... :S | 03:11 |
| james_w | yeah, it's not great | 03:11 |
| crond | I'm concerned, but I guess we'll see what happens | 03:12 |
| james_w | but there's not really a viable way to have secure boot without having signing that prevents users building their own stuff | 03:12 |
| crond | and the point of Linux is, in part, to be ABLE to build your own stuff | 03:12 |
| james_w | you need a secret not on the user's machine, otherwise any malware could easily bypass secure boot, making it useless | 03:12 |
| crond | not to mention FreeBSD/*BSD/etc users | 03:12 |
| james_w | yeah, but I'm not sure the point is to keep everything working exactly the same if you build your own stuff | 03:13 |
| james_w | I appreciate the desire, but I'm not sure it's feasible, even ignoring the security aspects | 03:13 |
| james_w | but we'll have to see if the GPL3 leads to a legal challenge in this area | 03:13 |
| james_w | no-one's sure where it draws the line on user modifiability | 03:14 |
| james_w | (I'm going to claim that's a word) | 03:14 |
| crond | I'm very unlikely to buy any hardware with that until its sorted, and I'm going to recommend to the people that ask me about computer purchases that they don't either. | 03:14 |
| james_w | yeah, unfortunately it's likely to be tricky in a year or so | 03:15 |
| crond | course, watch this get cracked just like prettymuch everything else due to some sort of implementation flaw/someone messing up with keys/etc | 03:17 |
| crond | kind of like AACS, etc. | 03:17 |
| crond | and be a really expensive, ultimately useless, pain in the butt | 03:17 |
| james_w | http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/12897.html | 03:18 |
| james_w | yeah, I realise I'm just linking to Matthew, but he's like the world's foremost expert on secure boot | 03:18 |
| crond | james_w, yeah this is interesting reading. Thanks :) | 03:19 |
| james_w | np | 03:20 |
| james_w | he's got a whole series of posts that are worth reading | 03:20 |
| james_w | and there are a couple of videos of presentations too | 03:20 |
| crond | So, do you happen to know, what's the best way to get an Ubuntu OEM notebook in Canada? | 03:22 |
| james_w | I don't know I'm afriad | 03:22 |
| crond | okay np | 03:23 |
| james_w | my last one was a windows laptop | 03:23 |
| james_w | Dell is the best bet unless you are shipping from overseas | 03:23 |
| james_w | but they aren't pushing much to Canada currently | 03:23 |
| crond | mine was windows too, and I checked, but I havent actually found ANY Dell's I can buy with Ubuntu | 03:23 |
| crond | a search pulls up a model or two but if I try and configure them, win7 is the only option | 03:24 |
| james_w | hmm, that's odd | 03:24 |
| crond | I currently have an Asus U31SD. Works decently, the only thing that doesn't work is Suspend (though Hibernate works) | 03:25 |
| james_w | ok, the internet in this hotel is too crap to do any work, so I'm going to turn in | 03:35 |
| james_w | night all | 03:35 |
| crond | night! | 03:37 |
| jlamothe | I've been running into an intermittent bug. Sometimes, when I save a gnucash file, my display scrambles on me, and the only thing I can do is reboot. The only thing that's changed recently is that this file is now stored in an ecryptfs system being synced with Ubuntu One. To whom should I submit this log: http://www.jlamothe.net/stuff/log_snippet.txt ? | 14:27 |
| jlamothe | Crap... it seems I was right earlier when I said it looks like a failing drive. 71 bad sectors. D: | 14:42 |
| DarwinSurvivor | jlamothe: run memtest on the machine. LOTS of people that think they have failling HDD's turn out to have failing RAM that corrupts the HDD. | 16:52 |
| jlamothe | DarwinSurvivor: I'll have to do that when I get home. Thanks for the tip. | 17:02 |
| jlamothe | Although, I've already purchased a new HDD from newegg. | 17:02 |
| jlamothe | Worst-case scenario is that I now have 1.5TB of storage instead of 500GB. | 17:02 |
| jlamothe | Although, I still suspect the drive. It was originally a RAID1 array, made of two identical drives purchased at the same time. Drive 2 failed about a year ago. | 17:03 |
| jlamothe | Fortunately, I back-up frequently. You only have to lose all you stuff once to learn *that* lesson. | 17:07 |
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