[02:10] Is it normal to have higher CPU temps in Unity than in XFCE? [02:29] crond: yes, especially if you don't have proper video card support on your machine [02:30] DarwinSurvivor, I do [02:31] I have the same video support in either, bumblebee is working right [02:31] just I am on average 5c hotter in Unity [02:31] and I was curious as to why [02:32] I still havent passed 74c so I'm not worried. It's just weird (thats playing Wow on my nvidia card via bumblebee. Under just the Intel I am at 47-50c) [02:32] oh, if it's only 5c I wouldn't worry about that. Just the additional services unity runs (messaging menu, compiz, etc) will do that [02:32] ahh okay [02:32] yeah its not a MAJOR difference, just enough to be noted and odd [02:32] and its not like I wasn't using compositing in XFCE [02:32] I had awn and whatnot running in that [02:35] I'm not minding Unity though [02:35] I am however skeptical about canonical giving in to Microsoft [02:35] on the UEFI thing [02:37] gtg, back in an hour [02:42] cya [02:44] giving in to microsoft? [02:45] james_w, they're using MS key to sign UEFI firmware instead of pressing for that crap not to be used in general on PCs. [02:47] I work for canonical fwiw [02:47] no involvement with the uefi stuff though [02:48] by pressing for it not to be used, you mean not working on systems that have secure boot enabled with only Microsoft's key in the db? [02:48] james_w, I mean if everyone presses for UEFI to not be used in OEMs at all, that'd be better. [02:48] uefi, or secure boot? [02:49] just seems... shortsighted to depend on MS in any way to be able to boot Linux [02:49] james_w, uh, I guess secure boot yes [02:49] my bad [02:49] you think that canonical has the sway with OEMs to stop any of them using secure boot at all? [02:50] when currently that would be asking them not to ship any machines with Windows 8? [02:50] james_w, I think that if large amounts of vendors/users/etc stood against it, that requirement would get removed [02:51] instead of people just going with it [02:51] perhaps I'm assuming too much as far as people caring, however [02:51] I agree that if all OEMs said that it would get removed by Microsoft from their logo requirements, but I don't see them doing that [02:54] james_w, well, I'm hoping that HP's move in refusing to make win8 ARM tablets will be followed and maybe undermine microsoft (due to them marketing surface tablets against their OEMs products) [02:54] but thats probably wishful thinking [02:54] yeah, ARM is certainly an area where they can't throw their weight around as much [02:55] another part of this it that we'd actually like secure boot if implemented right [02:55] if it improved security while preserving user freedom [02:56] well, how does secure boot affect people who, say, use LFS or something to roll their own Linux? Or do you mean, make end users able to turn it off/self-sign keys? [02:57] yeah, I'd support allowing users to turn it off or insert their own keys if they want to do that sort of thing [02:57] the issue is that secure boot has been reduced to a key management problem, and we haven't got good answers for that yet [02:58] hmm yeah. How long till devices using it start coming out? I saw the qemu supports it in software now apparently. [02:58] I'm not exactly sure, but within months I expect [02:58] Windows 8 is scheduled for the fall I think? [02:58] hm. Well, I'm sticking to BIOS systems until that gets figured. [02:58] yeah I think you're right. [03:04] both Microsoft's and Canonical's requirements state that you should be able to disable secure boot and add your own keys IIRC [03:05] so it's mainly a question of how to support the users who won't want to do that [03:05] but I wouldn't wait until someone has cracked key management :-) [03:05] it might take 50 years, it may even be impossible [03:06] well hopefully stuff with ship with the ability to disable it, but I'm not holding my breath. Cept maybe OEMs like System 76, PenguinComputing, or Zareason. [03:06] http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/13713.html [03:07] so anything certified ubuntu should be fine [03:07] Nice [03:08] I'd rather not pay the extra price of ordering from an ubuntu OEM (Unless Dell decides to sell ubuntu notebooks in Canada again), but I will if I have to [03:09] I'm hoping they release project sputnik in Canada, it's a nice bit of kit [03:09] Hm so all Ubuntu certified HW has to have Microsoft's key too? That ONLY means that Ubuntu-certified HW can run Windows too, yeah? [03:09] http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/9844.html [03:09] found it [03:10] so Windows specifies that users can disable secure boot [03:10] wait signed kernel? [03:10] I'm not sure what all the consequences of it are, but yeah, you can likely boot Windows too [03:10] I could compilemy own kernel? [03:10] *couldnt [03:10] not without disabling secure boot [03:10] but Ubuntu's current plan is to not sign kernels [03:11] hm [03:11] okay... :S [03:11] yeah, it's not great [03:12] I'm concerned, but I guess we'll see what happens [03:12] but there's not really a viable way to have secure boot without having signing that prevents users building their own stuff [03:12] and the point of Linux is, in part, to be ABLE to build your own stuff [03:12] you need a secret not on the user's machine, otherwise any malware could easily bypass secure boot, making it useless [03:12] not to mention FreeBSD/*BSD/etc users [03:13] yeah, but I'm not sure the point is to keep everything working exactly the same if you build your own stuff [03:13] I appreciate the desire, but I'm not sure it's feasible, even ignoring the security aspects [03:13] but we'll have to see if the GPL3 leads to a legal challenge in this area [03:14] no-one's sure where it draws the line on user modifiability [03:14] (I'm going to claim that's a word) [03:14] I'm very unlikely to buy any hardware with that until its sorted, and I'm going to recommend to the people that ask me about computer purchases that they don't either. [03:15] yeah, unfortunately it's likely to be tricky in a year or so [03:17] course, watch this get cracked just like prettymuch everything else due to some sort of implementation flaw/someone messing up with keys/etc [03:17] kind of like AACS, etc. [03:17] and be a really expensive, ultimately useless, pain in the butt [03:18] http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/12897.html [03:18] yeah, I realise I'm just linking to Matthew, but he's like the world's foremost expert on secure boot [03:19] james_w, yeah this is interesting reading. Thanks :) [03:20] np [03:20] he's got a whole series of posts that are worth reading [03:20] and there are a couple of videos of presentations too [03:22] So, do you happen to know, what's the best way to get an Ubuntu OEM notebook in Canada? [03:22] I don't know I'm afriad [03:23] okay np [03:23] my last one was a windows laptop [03:23] Dell is the best bet unless you are shipping from overseas [03:23] but they aren't pushing much to Canada currently [03:23] mine was windows too, and I checked, but I havent actually found ANY Dell's I can buy with Ubuntu [03:24] a search pulls up a model or two but if I try and configure them, win7 is the only option [03:24] hmm, that's odd [03:25] I currently have an Asus U31SD. Works decently, the only thing that doesn't work is Suspend (though Hibernate works) [03:35] ok, the internet in this hotel is too crap to do any work, so I'm going to turn in [03:35] night all [03:37] night! [14:27] I've been running into an intermittent bug. Sometimes, when I save a gnucash file, my display scrambles on me, and the only thing I can do is reboot. The only thing that's changed recently is that this file is now stored in an ecryptfs system being synced with Ubuntu One. To whom should I submit this log: http://www.jlamothe.net/stuff/log_snippet.txt ? [14:42] Crap... it seems I was right earlier when I said it looks like a failing drive. 71 bad sectors. D: [16:52] jlamothe: run memtest on the machine. LOTS of people that think they have failling HDD's turn out to have failing RAM that corrupts the HDD. [17:02] DarwinSurvivor: I'll have to do that when I get home. Thanks for the tip. [17:02] Although, I've already purchased a new HDD from newegg. [17:02] Worst-case scenario is that I now have 1.5TB of storage instead of 500GB. [17:03] Although, I still suspect the drive. It was originally a RAID1 array, made of two identical drives purchased at the same time. Drive 2 failed about a year ago. [17:07] Fortunately, I back-up frequently. You only have to lose all you stuff once to learn *that* lesson.