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[03:00] <vibhav> Why is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/speech-dispatcher/0.7.1-6.1ubuntu1 uploaded to "quantal-proposed"?
[03:01] <infinity> vibhav: Because it was uploaded to -proposed during the freeze.  It's since been copied to release.
[03:01] <infinity> Note under publishing "Pocket: release".
[03:02] <vibhav> infinity: Do you mean it was orignally uploaded to precise-proposed?
[03:02] <infinity> vibhav: No, quantal-proposed.
[03:02] <infinity> vibhav: During the Alpha2 soft freeze.
[03:03] <infinity> Laney: So, once I got an upgraded kernel on an armel buildd, I confirmed my mono patch DTRT.  If you want to pull it back into Debian sometime for me.
[03:04] <infinity> Laney: (It will have precisely zero effect on Debian buildds, but if Debian ever builds armel on armv6/armv7 hardware, the same bug will hit them)
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[03:05] <infinity> Laney: Might be good to get it in before the freeze, just in case someone upgrades the buildds post-release, and a security update explodes unexpectedly.
[03:06] <vibhav> infinity: ah
[03:13] <vibhav> What does NBS stand for in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ ?
[03:13] <vibhav> Ah got it
[03:13] <vibhav> Nevermind
[03:27] <vibhav> What does super-seeded mean?
[03:43] <JontheEchidna> vibhav: sounds like a mispelling of superseded? (To have been replaced)
[03:48] <vibhav> yeah, its superseeded. thanks JontheEchidna
[03:49] <directhex> superseded. one e.
[04:03] <vibhav> For some strange reason, my pbuilder chroot does cannot find the package "blends-dev" in the Ubuntu repositories, any Idean why?
[04:04] <vibhav> idea*
[04:06] <JontheEchidna> I'd check to make sure that universe is enabled in its /etc/apt/sources.list
[04:06] <JontheEchidna> and/or run a sudo pbuilder update
[04:07] <vibhav> Ill try uploading it to a PPA and see if it works
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[05:14]  * malkauns_ fires up his raspberry pi :)
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[07:56] <fossilet> I am the debian maintainer of the package 4digits. I would like the version in testing to be sync to 12.04. How is that possible?
[07:57] <fossilet> It has a bug fix than the version in 12.04.
[08:05] <ailo> fossilet: You could request a backport. I believe, apart of the ubuntu-dev-tools package there's requestbackport
[08:05] <ailo> I'm currently doing that now with another package
[08:05] <ailo> I uploaded it to PPA so I can test it first
[08:06] <fossilet> ailo, Ok. I requsted sync, and it seems unapproriate
[08:06] <ailo> fossilet: Yeah, requestsync is done for the development release, which is now 12.10
[08:06] <fossilet> ailo: I must upload it to ppa and test in 12.04 then request that?
[08:07] <fossilet> ailo: It is already in quantal though
[08:08] <cjwatson> fossilet: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[08:08] <ailo> fossilet: When you do requestbackport, you will come to a stage when you need to fill in some text. There is some info on what you can do to test the package, as well as explain why you want to backport it
[08:08] <cjwatson> If it's a bug fix rather than new features, you want that process, not requestbackport
[08:08] <ailo> cjwatson: Oh, that was new to me too
[08:09] <fossilet> cjwatson: I was reading it
[08:09] <fossilet> but do not know how to apply to this package..
[08:10] <fossilet> In the 'procedure' section, it assumes there is already a bug repot for it
[08:10] <fossilet> but there is for it
[08:10] <fossilet> it is fixed in debian
[08:10] <cjwatson> So create one
[08:11] <cjwatson> We use bug reports to track verification of stable updates; it isn't optional to have one in Ubuntu, even if it's already been fixed elsewhere
[08:12] <fossilet> cjwatson: Create for update request or bug fix?
[08:12] <cjwatson> I don't know what you mean
[08:12] <fossilet> cjwatson: create a bug requesting that package be updated in 12.04?
[08:13] <ailo> cjwatson: How about if a new feature fixes a bug?
[08:13] <ailo> Or, half-fixes it
[08:13] <cjwatson> We don't generally just copy packages from unstable releases into stable releases, any more than Debian stable does.  Somebody should prepare an upload that backports just the bug fix
[08:13] <fossilet> ailo: In my case, it is just a fix
[08:13] <cjwatson> ailo: StableReleaseUpdates has guidance, I believe
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[08:16] <fossilet> Ok, I will file a bug now
[08:18] <ailo> cjwatson: Well, in the case of qjackctl, since the bug is probably not regarded critical, and is really caused by jackd, but where qjackctl has a new feature which makes that bug easier to live with, I find that backport is probably the best choice
[08:20] <cjwatson> I don't really want to think about the specifics on a Saturday morning :)
[08:20] <cjwatson> just giving general pointers
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[08:23] <fossilet> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/4digits/+bug/1019533
[08:23] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 4 in Launchpad itself "Importing finished po doesn't change progressbar" [Medium,Fix released]
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[08:24] <fossilet> I have file the bug.
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[08:57] <Daviey> Anyone else booted this morning with a broken X?
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[09:54] <RAOF> Daviey: Not me, but bah transitions; what driver?
[10:33] <RAOF> infinity: You wouldn't happen to be around to give a pointer about getting a pandaboard to actually boot, after netinsting to a USB disc?
[10:35] <tumbleweed> RAOF: he said something about going to sleep, in #ubuntu-release
[10:36] <RAOF> tumbleweed: Ta.
[10:47] <Laney> RAOF: try ogra_
[10:47]  * Laney is using a dist-upgraded precise server preinstall for now
[10:48] <Laney> maybe I'll venture out today to find a USB key
[10:55] <infinity> RAOF: You didn't take the SD out, did you?
[10:55] <infinity> RAOF: (the installer installs the bootloader and kernel to the SD)
[10:56] <infinity> tumbleweed: I lied, apparently.
[10:58] <RAOF> infinity: I did not take the SD out; it did, however, say at the end of the install ‘you'll need to boot this thing manually, because ARM hardware sucks and we don't have a bootloader’.
[10:58] <RAOF> Not in so many words, but that was the gist I gained from it.
[10:58] <infinity> RAOF: Err, that's a filthy lie.
[10:58] <infinity> RAOF: What media did you use to install?
[10:58] <infinity> RAOF: I literally *just* did a precise/armhf netboot install to USB disk in the DC and it worked just fine.
[10:59] <RAOF> http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/quantal/main/installer-armhf/current/images/omap4/netboot/boot.img-fb.gz is what I zcatted to the SD card.
[10:59] <infinity> RAOF: Try precise.
[11:00] <RAOF> Will do.
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[11:00] <infinity> RAOF: quantal's flash-kernel may still be goofy (if it is, that's an interesting datapoint, and I should check when it's not a long weekend)
[11:00] <RAOF> There's no arcane ritual to be done to dist-upgrade from precise to quantal?
[11:00] <infinity> RAOF: My recommendation is "don't, use chroots".
[11:00] <RAOF> Or is the advice to *stay* on precise?
[11:01] <infinity> RAOF: Unless your goal is actually testing X and such.  In which case, dist-upgrading SHOULD work, unless Oli broke flash-kernel horribly (see above).
[11:01] <RAOF> Will do.
[11:01] <infinity> I suspect I should test all of this next week.  Remind me. :P
[11:01] <RAOF> Actually testing X and such is one of the purposes of this board, yes.
[11:02] <infinity> To be fair, X is in a bit of a state of flux right now anyway, until we get a newer libdrm, a newer kernel, and a newer x-mumble-omap driver.
[11:02] <RAOF> Just to confirm: I didn't need to do anything special in d-i to make this work, right? Just throw a / on a USB drive, and install?
[11:03] <infinity> I'm led to believe by KiBi that the newer libdrm is potentially blocked on nouveau having been yet again broken or something.
[11:03] <infinity> RAOF: Just hit enter lots.  The defaults should be fine (unless you want to manually partition for more swap or something)
[11:03] <RAOF> nouveau broke libdrm ABI. But I think they did so while actually bumping SONAME, so that should work, I think.
[11:04] <infinity> Oh, in that case, let's go to town!
[11:04] <RAOF> “I'm smelling a lot of ‘if’ on this plan”
[11:04] <infinity> New libdrm means I just need a kernel bump, and I can dump Rob's newer omap driver in and it might actually work.
[11:05] <infinity> And we get KMS and other fancy crap on omap, which would be shiny.
[11:05] <RAOF> All manner of shiny!
[11:05] <infinity> And xrandr.  And, you know, welcome to 1999.
[11:06] <infinity> "Wait, what, I don't need my monitor plugged in when I boot?"
[11:06] <RAOF> :)
[11:07] <infinity> To be marginally fair, I don't think anyone really thought through to the point where some crazy people would start using embedded CPUs as low-powered desktops.
[11:07] <infinity> And it turns out that most embedded systems have the screen permanently attached.
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[11:08] <RAOF> Who'd've thought? :)
[11:09] <infinity> Anyhow.  I should try to sleep again.  In theory, I'm going to be awake in 4 hours to drive out to some party in the mountains or something.
[11:10] <infinity> RAOF: Do let me know if precise works for you.  The only difference between your install and mine is that I used serial instead of the fb image, but if the fb one is somehow broken, that's just not right.
[11:10] <RAOF> Sleep-deprived driving. What could possibly go wrong?
[11:10] <infinity> RAOF: (So, I assume it's just quantal that's broken)
[11:10]  * RAOF grabs the precise fb one.
[11:11] <infinity> Sleep-deprived driving for a couple of hours into the middle of nowhere.  Seems like a winning scenario.
[11:11] <Laney> Precise desktop never got past resizing for me.
[11:11] <Laney> preinstalled, etc.
[11:11] <infinity> Laney: We're talking netboot.
[11:12] <Laney> yeah, I should try that
[11:12] <infinity> Laney: If resizing broke on preinstalled, the only thing to blame is the SD card.
[11:12] <Laney> I tried two, but to be fair they were the same make/model
[11:12] <infinity> Every SD sucks.
[11:12] <infinity> Sadly.
[11:14] <infinity> I'm so very tempted to drop all the non-netboot ARM images, and just provide a netboot image that happens to have a desktop preseed, and call it done.
[11:15] <infinity> But I suspect people would whine about that.
[11:17]  * Laney decides to go out climbing instead
[12:54] <b33j0y> join #ubuntu_classroom
[12:54] <b33j0y> quit
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[16:19] <ejat> bug 2011
[16:19] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 2011 in Launchpad itself "malone doesn't know about network-manager" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2011
[16:27] <BarkingFish> Good afternoon guys. I wonder if you could help me, since I can't seem to find this on launchpad.  There is a gent in #ubuntu asking about a problem with OpenSSH 5.9p1 - i googled and found a bug which could be causing his issues, I can't find a launchpad report on it though.  Any ideas?
[16:28] <BarkingFish> He's upgraded from 5.3p1 to 5.9p1, and from what I can see, this appears to have been present since 5.8p1
[16:28] <BarkingFish> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/openssh/dev/51339
[16:46] <penguin42> hmm, this PDF has just printed a last page which says that it's printed using vegetable oil based inks on paper which is Forest Stewardship council certified - almost certainly isn't
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[20:11] <Daviey> RAOF: fglrx / ATI non-free
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[20:46] <infinity> Daviey: Oh, did the new xorg ABI break fglrx?
[20:46]  * infinity isn't surprised.
[20:46] <slangasek> yes, that happens every time there's a video driver ABI bump
[20:46] <Daviey> infinity: it's beena little sketchy since linux 3.5.. but X now segfaults since the new xorg.
[20:47] <infinity> \o/
[20:47] <Daviey> slangasek: every time.. why isn't this avoidable ?
[20:47] <infinity> You can, perhaps, blame me.  I went through the list of drivers in proposed and it looked complete.  Cause, well, I didn't even think to check the non-free ones.
[20:47] <penguin42> the open Radeon driver is now working again in qq for the cards that are happy
[20:47] <slangasek> Daviey: um.  because they're binary drivers?
[20:47] <infinity> Daviey: Any chance the free driver works?
[20:48] <slangasek> so when the binary interface changes and the driver doesn't, the driver breaks
[20:48] <Daviey> infinity: Seems to now...  I've only recently gone back to ATI, and Precise required non-free
[20:48] <infinity> nvidia's usually gotten around this by being so dangerously xserver-agnostic that, on the one hand, it rarely breaks, but on the other hand, it can't integrate for crap and needs to reinvent every X feature it wants.
[20:48] <Daviey> slangasek: right.. but surely we can handle this a little more gracefully ?
[20:49] <infinity> But fglrx plays "nicer", which means it breaks harder.
[20:49] <infinity> Daviey: Well, the only grace we can exercise is "never upgrade X until AMD catches up", which isn't really a pleasant way to do development either. :/
[20:50]  * infinity goes to look upstream to see if they've already fixed this and we just forgot to rev the driver.
[20:50] <Daviey> I specifically questioned this aspect with the 'daily stability', and was told that if we break non-free, we'd still roll back.
[20:51] <infinity> Oh look, something was released two days ago.
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[20:51] <slangasek> Daviey: really?  Because that's inconsistent with the desktop team's policy on binary drivers for years
[20:52] <infinity> And the kernel team.
[20:52] <Daviey> slangasek: right, that is why i raised it..
[20:52] <infinity> In fact, especially the kernel team.
[20:52] <slangasek> raised it with whom?
[20:52] <infinity> Binary drivers break against new kernels every 20 minutes.
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[20:52] <Daviey> slangasek: UDS session about daily stability, Rick responded.
[20:52] <slangasek> hmm
[20:52] <slangasek> were the X maintainers in there? :)
[20:53] <Daviey> NFI :)
[20:54] <slangasek> so it's not realistic to wait for the binary drivers to be available before updating the X server
[20:54] <slangasek> we've waited months at a time for binary driver updates
[20:54] <Daviey> I raised this specific issue, as Natty cycle left me burned for about a month via Nvidia.
[20:56] <Daviey> slangasek: yeah, i can see the pain here.. I wonder if it was known poor Daviey would be left X-less this morning when it was upload.
[20:56] <slangasek> you said the free drivers worked, once you rejiggered?
[20:57] <slangasek> if so, that suggests an integration bug with the binary driver packages
[20:57] <slangasek> things should automatically un-configure themselves on ABI change
[20:58] <Daviey> slangasek: Yeah, seems the free drivers now support this chipset.. So i'm pleased that it forced me to try the free ones again. :)
[20:58] <Daviey> Although, X is lost on resume.. but i can live with that for now.
[20:59] <slangasek> so please file a bug against the fglrx package about the fact that your config was left in a broken state on upgrade
[21:01] <Daviey> slangasek: umm, ok
[21:02] <infinity> Dear AMD, thanks for your release notes being two years out of date.
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[21:03] <infinity> Bit hard to tell if the new driver will actually be any happier with the new xorg.
[21:04] <infinity> I guess I'll leave it to someone who has hardware.
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