vibhavdholbach: ping03:52
dholbachgood morning06:40
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vibhavdholbach: you there?07:10
dholbachhi vibhav, yes07:10
vibhavdholbach: PM?07:10
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directhexwhat's the expected delay between a package landing in Sid, and arriving in Quantal?12:28
Laneywhenever someone runs auto-sync12:28
Laney+ delta for Launchpad to see the upload (some hours, less than a day)12:29
Laneydirecthex: you can syncpackage yourself to not have to wait for that12:31
directhexLaney, i don't like to jump around acting like i'm special if things are Normal(tm)12:32
Laneyi don't think running syncpackage yourself is a problem at all12:32
Laneybut it still will end up in NEW, etc, so may end up not being any faster depending on who does what and when12:32
nigelb /ws 3412:33
Laneynigelb: what's 34 got that we haven't?12:33
nigelbLaney: it's the other channel with conversation12:33
Laneythey smell12:34
Laneystick over here, it's much nicer ♥12:34
nigelbhaha, I'm always here <312:34
vibhavLaney: What IRC client do you use?12:34
Laneythat heart was from the compose key though, if that's what you're after12:35
vibhavexactly, I hour left12:51
cousteaucould someone please fix bug #860045 ?  It's quite annoying; I can't have both gdb and gdb-msp430 installed12:59
ubottuLaunchpad bug 860045 in gdb-msp430 (Ubuntu) "package gdb-msp430 7.2~mspgcc-7.2-20110612-1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/gdb/python/gdb/__init__.py', which is also in package gdb 7.3-0ubuntu2" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86004512:59
cousteaubasically there are 2 packages that share some file paths they shouldn't share13:01
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Laneydirecthex: how about that — it just got done!13:25
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PaoloRotoloHi all!15:07
utlemminghowdy, I have three packages that I want to submit to mutliverse, and per the wiki, it looks like I am supposed to come here to find some friendly sponsors. The packages are Amazon AWS Tools for Auto Scaling, Cloud Watch and ElastiCache.16:05
micahgutlemming: you need 2 MOTUs to review the package before uploading (can include the uploader)16:07
tumbleweedor even better, get them into Debian non-free16:08
utlemmingtumbleweed: yeah, except as I understand it, Debian is not a particular fan of the Amazon Software license16:09
tumbleweedas long as distribution is allowed, it can go into Debian's non-free archive16:09
utlemmingtumbleweed: do we have time for the package to land in debian and then make it into Quantal? In look, it was unclear whether Debian is frozen or not at the moment16:10
tumbleweeddebian is in freeze, but a new package could probably get through to ubuntu before UBuntu's feature freeze16:11
tumbleweed(new packages aren't really affected by debian's freeze, they just won't go into the next release)16:12
tumbleweedfeature freeze here is august 23rd16:12
utlemmingtumbleweed: okay, I'll take a look at trying to get these into Debian16:13
cousteauhmm...  something should be done with qucs...  it's still in version 0.0.15 but 0.0.16 has been available for a long time16:15
tumbleweedtalking of ubuntu-only packages. I'm wondering if we should make it a standing item for MOTU meetings, to review (say) 20 ubuntu-only packages, and list the ones proposed for removal16:15
micahgtumbleweed: I think I have a work item to write up a proposal for removal criteria16:16
micahgcousteau: that's been removed from quantal16:17
tumbleweedit's on my mind because of bug 88100716:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 881007 in ruby-rvm (Ubuntu) "Remove ruby-rvm" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88100716:17
micahgRoQA; qt3, no qt4 port16:17
cousteauok, step 1:  contact the debian maintainer to update it16:17
cousteaumicahg, what??16:17
tumbleweedcousteau: does upstream support qt4 yet?16:17
micahgcousteau: no, it's not in Debian anymore16:18
cousteaubut that program was quite nice!  it can't be simply removed...16:18
micahgyes, it can be if it depends on an outdated software stack that can't be maintained :)16:18
cousteauthat's quite sad...16:19
micahgso, the ball is in upstream's court at this point16:19
tumbleweedsoftware dies of neglect all the time. It's the most common cause of death, I'd say16:20
cousteauok, so in order to get qucs back to linux...16:20
micahghrm, I guess I"d consider a backport request of 0.0.16-2 to precise-backports16:20
cousteauit should be ported to qt4?16:20
* cousteau kinda dislikes qt416:21
micahgqt4 would allow backporting to wheezy/precise, qt5 would be in quantal+1/wheezy+116:22
cousteaumaybe the project could be forked, create a "grandly universal circuit simulator"16:22
cousteauactually the problem with qucs is that it's developed in slow motion...  if the little development effort/resources are channeled into rewriting the (non-broken) GUI to another library, the project will kinda die16:24
cousteauis porting a program from one qt to another complicated?16:24
cousteau...seems to be some sort of work towards qt4 porting going on16:28
cousteauis qt4 going to be deprecated too on quantal+1?16:29
cousteau(hmm...  also a Verilog-AMS interface?  cool...  what about VHDL-AMS, I wonder?  I should contact the authors to get more info)16:31
micahgcousteau: probably not for quantal+1, but I'm guessing for the next LTS/Wheezy+1 maybe16:36
cousteauok, so...  seems that qucs port to qt4 is still going on (I think)...  so I think I'm going to keep on Precise for a looong time17:41
ScottKcousteau: I think it will be a few releases before Qt4 is deprecated and even if it is, Qt4 -> Qt5 porting is supposed to be trivial (Qt3 -> Qt4 is not).  Sometimes as little as recompiling the package.17:44
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AmberJIf an upstream does NOT used have a SONAME (version), where should they start versioning from?19:18
AmberJtumbleweed, Do I get it right that if upstream's (say libx) version is in between 1.0-1.9 (suppose), the soname will be libx.so.1? For 2.0-2.9, soname will be something like libx.so.2? ...and so on.19:20
tumbleweeda soname is actually just a string of text19:21
tumbleweedso, it can be anything19:21
tumbleweedif they'd like to make the soname the major version number, that's very convenient19:21
AmberJah, so any 'unique' string of test will suffice.19:21
tumbleweedpretty much19:21
tumbleweedif you are using libtool, it thinks sonames are all X.Y.Z (where those are numbers)19:22
tumbleweedbut really, there is no such requirement19:22
AmberJRight then, I'll use the major version numbers as soname then (no need to violate the de facto standard)!19:22
AmberJThe upstream is using cmake (no libtool involved)...19:23
jtaylorwith libtool the soname is .X19:23
jtaylorthe other numbers are revision and something I forgot19:23
tumbleweedfair point19:24
jtaylorcmake uses a similar method to libtool to my recollection19:24
jtaylorno it has an arbitrary string19:25
AmberJyes, cmake (using a set_target_properties() rule) can put an arbitrary string in SOVERSION property for library targets.19:27
AmberJWhy don't some shared libs in my /usr/lib/ don't have a version appended at the end of the SONAME? (e.g. libADM_core.so)19:32
AmberJIsn't a version/SOVERSION "required" in SONAME?19:32
jtaylorits not required, but for a public library its a strong must19:33
AmberJOh yes, it should be a must (since it provides version backwards compatibility information).19:34
jtayloroften upstreams don't care so much about versioning, but a packages should try to educate them19:35
jtaylorif no versioning is intended it should go in a private subfolder so nothing else tries linking against it19:35
tumbleweedlots of upstrams don't care about stable ABIs19:35
AmberJIn my case, it a public library/upstream...19:36
* AmberJ writes an email to upstream developers with a cmake/soversion patch19:36
micahg*cough* boost *coug*19:36
ajmitchmicahg: don't know why you're coughing there :)19:37
micahgany staticly compiled language :)19:39
AmberJAre filenames of all public shared libraries in /usr/lib supposed to start with lib (i.e. of the form lib*)?19:40
tumbleweedand things that aren't compiled have similar issues in API stability19:40
AmberJIn my /usr/lib, I see only 1 .so whose name does not starts with "lib"...19:41
AmberJOr, is it just a matter of personal/upstream choice?19:41
jtaylorI think all must start with lib, its the prefix gcc uses with -l19:42
jtayloreverything else is a loadable module and usually resides in subfolders19:43
AmberJah yes19:43
AmberJThanks tumbleweed and jtaylor :)19:43
epikvisionI want to package Eclipse juno, the latest version of the ide.  I've already uncompressed it, but I don't know how to prepare for compilation.19:52
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epikvision./configure doesn't work... the program obviously doesn't have it.19:53
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tumbleweedpresumably it has instructions19:53
epikvisiontumbleweed,  how do I find the instructions for packaging it?19:54
jbichaepikvision: I'd suggest starting with the current eclipse packaging19:54
micahgepikvision: you might want to ask in #debian-java on OFTC and see how you can help make it happen19:54
epikvisionjbicha: how can I help out with the current eclipse packaging?19:55
Laneyyou were just told ...19:56
jbichaif you're a beginner to Debian packaging, Eclipse is probably not a good place to start19:56
jbichaepikvision: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/19:57
epikvisionperhaps the debian maintainer guide is also useful?19:59
AmberJyes, (as a beginner to Debian/Ubuntu packaging), I found out maint-guide very useful.20:01
thinkndevThe packaging guide suggests to package in the development environment.20:10
thinkndevdoes that mean to use the terminal in quantal?20:11
tumbleweedmost developers run the development release (after the first few months)20:11
tumbleweed(or at least I think they should)20:11
tumbleweedbut you can work on a stable release, and build in chroots (pbuilder/sbuild), which is a good practice anyway20:11
Laneyif I forgot to --fixes lp:foo several commits ago, can I go back and add it without having to uncommit all the way down?20:19
tumbleweedmaybe with rebase onto20:19
micahgLaney: is it in the changelog already?20:19
tumbleweedor loomifying and then converting back to commits20:19
Laneyit's not a package20:20
tumbleweedbut yes, I find that kind of thing much easier in git20:20
Laney(it is launchpad)20:20
LaneyI think I'll just not bother :-)20:20
tumbleweedwhat are you fixing for us today?20:21
micahghrm, idk of a way to go back20:21
Laneyjust proposed notautomatic20:21
jtaylormy quantal chroots are acting up21:52
jtaylorcan'T find debhelper when doing --build21:53
jtaylorcomponents are correct --login works ...21:53

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