| dholbach | good morning | 06:52 |
|---|---|---|
| dholbach_ | ajmitch, thanks for the review | 06:56 |
| === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach | ||
| dholbach | I just commented on it again, as I wasn't quite sure how to proceed | 06:57 |
| PaoloRotolo | Good morning! | 07:04 |
| dholbach | hey PaoloRotolo | 07:07 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, hi! | 07:11 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, I tried to post a feedback on the app page: https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/1032/ but it says that I haven't permission | 07:18 |
| dholbach | oh, I had no idea :/ | 07:19 |
| dholbach | can you put up your comment on a pastebin again, then I'll try to put it in there | 07:20 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, ok | 07:22 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, here it is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1072675/ | 07:27 |
| dholbach | PaoloRotolo, ok, this time it worked: https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/1032/feedback/ | 07:29 |
| dholbach | you might have to be member of ~ubuntu-app-review-contributors | 07:29 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, good, thanks :) | 07:40 |
| ajmitch | dholbach: hi, sorry I didn't comment earlier | 08:51 |
| * ajmitch picked a bad time to get sick | 08:51 | |
| dholbach | ajmitch, oh damn :-/ | 08:51 |
| * dholbach hugs ajmitch | 08:51 | |
| dholbach | I hope you're going to be better soon again! | 08:52 |
| dholbach | ajmitch, I updated the merge proposal again - I hope that's what you intended it to be | 08:52 |
| ajmitch | yeah, I seemed to be a bit better tonight | 08:52 |
| * ajmitch shall have to take a look | 08:52 | |
| ajmitch | mutable default arguments are something of a python gotcha :) | 08:52 |
| dholbach | ajmitch, it'd be great if we could get it in - then I'd trigger another build and we'd have most of the regular checks covered by a small tool :-D | 08:53 |
| ajmitch | the list is bound to the function definition & not reset to [] when called with no argument | 08:53 |
| ajmitch | ok, will look now then | 08:53 |
| dholbach | ajmitch, I'm not quite sure I understand the problem with the default argument | 08:55 |
| ajmitch | let me throw together a quick test case | 08:55 |
| dholbach | ajmitch, I guess I'm just a bit dense :) | 08:55 |
| ajmitch | or I'm just wrong | 08:58 |
| ajmitch | you're not changing the argument within the function, so you get away with it afaik, so ignore my MP comments :) | 09:03 |
| dholbach | yeah, I just pass it through :) | 09:03 |
| dholbach | ajmitch, does "ignore my MP comments" mean "it's approved, merge it" or are you still having a look at it? | 09:23 |
| ajmitch | dholbach: merge it | 09:27 |
| dholbach | great | 09:27 |
| dholbach | thanks | 09:27 |
| ajmitch | sorry, I should have marked it as such on the MP | 09:27 |
| dholbach | no worries | 09:28 |
| * dholbach triggers another build | 09:29 | |
| dholbach | that'd hopefully make reviewing apps a bit more fun :) | 09:29 |
| dholbach | especially once we add examples for successfully fixed apps | 09:29 |
| dholbach | PaoloRotolo, there should be a new arb-lint version in the ppa now, which also checks if the /opt installation is correct | 09:55 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, great! | 09:57 |
| PaoloRotolo | I'll install it at home today | 09:57 |
| dholbach | super | 09:57 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, the app review is fun :P | 09:59 |
| dholbach | cool, I'm glad you like it :) | 09:59 |
| PaoloRotolo | :) | 10:00 |
| dholbach | ajmitch, are we going to ignore things like usr/share/python/runtime.d/harvestwidget.rtupdate and etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/harvestwidget-crashdb.conf? | 10:06 |
| ajmitch | dholbach: they're added by dh_python2 & dh_apport respectively, from what I know | 10:07 |
| ajmitch | I think we'd need to override those to stop them being created | 10:07 |
| dholbach | ajmitch, and that's what we'd want? | 10:09 |
| dholbach | I guess what I'm asking is: is it unacceptable to have these files in there? | 10:10 |
| ajmitch | to avoid potential file conflicts, it is, since we're trying to stick close to the /opt requirement | 10:11 |
| dholbach | ok | 10:11 |
| ajmitch | technically I don't know if it's a problem either way, as they have the package name | 10:11 |
| dholbach | hum, I can't find dh_apport | 10:17 |
| ajmitch | it's shipped in dh-apport | 10:17 |
| dholbach | I don't have it installed, but still the crashdb.conf file gets shipped in the package :) | 10:18 |
| ajmitch | then I'm probably wrong again & should stop misleading you | 10:18 |
| dholbach | no no :) | 10:18 |
| dholbach | aha, python-distutils-extra again | 10:19 |
| ajmitch | oh is it? | 10:20 |
| ajmitch | fun | 10:20 |
| * didrocks should set an autojoin :) | 10:20 | |
| dholbach | hey didrocks | 10:21 |
| dholbach | we just found files like etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/harvestwidget-crashdb.conf | 10:21 |
| dholbach | which look like they're shipped through python-distutils-extra | 10:21 |
| didrocks | indeed :) | 10:22 |
| dholbach | as many folks who just submitted apps didn't modify these files at all, it might make sense to just override whatever ships them somehow | 10:22 |
| didrocks | this is to enable running ubuntu-bug <project> against the upstream project | 10:22 |
| didrocks | hum, they shouldn't need to modify it | 10:23 |
| dholbach | but for the future it'd be nice if apport and python-distutils-extra would do something like etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/extras-harvestwidget-crashdb.conf or opt/extras.ubuntu.com/harvestwidget/etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/harvestwidget-crashdb.conf | 10:23 |
| didrocks | it should just do the right thing | 10:23 |
| dholbach | ah ok | 10:23 |
| dholbach | well then, I don't know :) | 10:23 |
| didrocks | well, apport doesn't read extras.ubuntu.com | 10:23 |
| didrocks | so the bug is apport to read from there? | 10:23 |
| dholbach | apport and python-distutils-extra | 10:23 |
| dholbach | first for apport to check an alternate location | 10:23 |
| dholbach | and then for p-d-e to install to it | 10:24 |
| didrocks | yeah, then to push in the alternate location | 10:24 |
| dholbach | yep | 10:24 |
| dholbach | I'll have a chat with pitti | 10:24 |
| didrocks | I still think that if we wanted to be serious about /opt, we would change all desktop service to run from there | 10:24 |
| dholbach | ajmitch, which location would you prefer? | 10:24 |
| didrocks | run/listen | 10:24 |
| didrocks | like dbus and such | 10:24 |
| dholbach | etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/extras-harvestwidget-crashdb.conf or opt/extras.ubuntu.com/harvestwidget/etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/harvestwidget-crashdb.conf? | 10:24 |
| dholbach | yeah | 10:24 |
| dholbach | opt sucks balls | 10:24 |
| dholbach | :) | 10:24 |
| ajmitch | agreed | 10:24 |
| didrocks | well, it's only 2 years that I'm advocating for this, since the ARB was created :) | 10:25 |
| * dholbach urgently looks for his valerian tea, to calm down again | 10:25 | |
| didrocks | no issue with /opt as long as we support it :) | 10:25 |
| ajmitch | didrocks: advocating for more stuff in /opt, or not at all? :) | 10:25 |
| didrocks | ajmitch: everything can go in /opt, but before making this a requirement, we should ensure that apport, dbus, unity lens files, and such are listening to /opt/<whatever> | 10:26 |
| dholbach | ajmitch, which of the two location would make more sense to you? etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/extras-harvestwidget-crashdb.conf or opt/extras.ubuntu.com/harvestwidget/etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/harvestwidget-crashdb.conf? | 10:26 |
| ajmitch | dholbach: I *suspect* we'd need to ask for an explicit exception to have it in /etc still, going by the letter of the law "_ | 10:26 |
| dholbach | the good thing is: pitti is on the TB ;-) | 10:26 |
| ajmitch | yes, and so is stgraber :) | 10:26 |
| didrocks | everything where it makes sense to have application hooked up and where you put exceptions :) | 10:26 |
| dholbach | alright | 10:27 |
| ajmitch | didrocks: and then you still run into problems where people want to write a plugin for a certain app | 10:27 |
| ajmitch | whether it be nautilus, or something else | 10:27 |
| didrocks | ajmitch: well, do we want plugins in all our apps? | 10:27 |
| didrocks | ajmitch: this is a control gate in fact :) | 10:27 |
| didrocks | to see what we want to enables for ARB apps or not | 10:28 |
| didrocks | enable* | 10:28 |
| ajmitch | right, but we don't support them right now except for lenses as a special case | 10:28 |
| didrocks | yeah, and I think it should stay that way | 10:28 |
| didrocks | like just supporting that for some special cases | 10:28 |
| didrocks | base system, like dbus, apport, desktop files detection | 10:29 |
| ajmitch | the restrictions on this could probably be made clearer for the next app developer competition, too :) | 10:29 |
| didrocks | (so bamf, unity…) | 10:29 |
| didrocks | some special ones like unity lens | 10:29 |
| * ajmitch needs to bug unity people some more to not have to restart for new lenses :) | 10:41 | |
| dholbach | ok, I talked to pitti | 10:41 |
| dholbach | he said we should just move the file to opt/extras.ubuntu.com/harvestwidget/etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/harvestwidget-crashdb.conf | 10:41 |
| dholbach | and apport and p-d-e will need to be fixed | 10:41 |
| ajmitch | problem is, my friends who work on it tell me to submit a patch | 10:41 |
| ajmitch | dholbach: ok | 10:41 |
| dholbach | I'll add a test and docs to arb-lint about it | 10:42 |
| ajmitch | apport would need an SRU for it to look in the right place then | 10:42 |
| dholbach | yep | 10:42 |
| dholbach | and p-d-e too | 10:42 |
| ajmitch | yippee? | 10:42 |
| dholbach | let's go shopping | 10:43 |
| ajmitch | sorry for sarcasm, I'm a little jaded on /opt still :) | 10:43 |
| * dholbach makes a valerian tea for ajmitch too | 10:43 | |
| ajmitch | heh :) | 10:43 |
| * ajmitch really needs to go & sleep soon | 10:48 | |
| ajmitch | I'm really sorry I haven't been around much for this apps sprint, this just turned out to be one of my busier weeks | 10:48 |
| dholbach | we can do it again | 10:51 |
| dholbach | I think we all learnt a lot | 10:51 |
| dholbach | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=arb | 10:51 |
| ajmitch | not too many, but some will take some work | 10:52 |
| dholbach | ok, I just went ahead and added tests with docs and examples | 11:13 |
| dholbach | ok, lunch time :) | 11:29 |
| dholbach | coolbhavi, if you install arb-lint from the PPA now, it should do a lot of the testing for you | 14:13 |
| dholbach | hopefully also the /opt stuff | 14:13 |
| coolbhavi | dholbach, sure will check it out :) Thanks! | 14:14 |
| dholbach | mhall119, so I should run arb-lint on arb-lint itself? ;-) | 14:14 |
| dholbach | E: The package seems to contain no files in '/opt/extras.ubuntu.com/arb- | 14:15 |
| dholbach | lint' which indicates a problem with the installation of files. | 14:15 |
| dholbach | ;-) | 14:15 |
| coolbhavi | :) | 14:15 |
| mhall119 | dholbach: lol | 14:24 |
| mhall119 | dholbach: so now we can take a tarball, put it in a bzr branch, create packaging for it, and check that the package follows the extras guidelines | 14:25 |
| mhall119 | that's great! | 14:25 |
| dholbach | yeah, we're slowly getting somewhere :) | 14:30 |
| dholbach | hey highvoltage :) | 14:30 |
| highvoltage | howdy dholbach | 14:36 |
| dholbach | how are things? | 14:36 |
| highvoltage | I have a scumbag brain. | 14:36 |
| dholbach | what what? | 14:36 |
| coolbhavi | hey highvoltage | 14:37 |
| highvoltage | I'm a victim of this again today: https://plus.google.com/118060934321492774758/posts/P6Ryggx81MU | 14:37 |
| highvoltage | got millions of ideas last night and couldn't sleep and now my head is just a black hole. | 14:37 |
| highvoltage | dholbach: "scumbag brain" is a popular meme: http://www.quickmeme.com/Scumbag-Brain/ | 14:38 |
| highvoltage | dholbach: and you, how are you? | 14:38 |
| highvoltage | hey there coolbhavi | 14:38 |
| coolbhavi | highvoltage, how are you doing buddy? | 14:38 |
| dholbach | ah ok, I had no idea about that meme :) | 14:39 |
| dholbach | highvoltage, I had a similar phase and two things helped me back then: I kept pencil and paper (not a laptop!!!) next to the bed and pinned the ideas down - also doing just a little bit of sports (not too much) during the day | 14:40 |
| highvoltage | dholbach: I'll try the pencil. I do more and more excercise but that seems to make it worse (especially if I do it later in the day). | 14:41 |
| highvoltage | I finally joined the trello board. It's pretty cool. | 14:42 |
| highvoltage | I wanted to spend more time with arb stuff this weekend but only ended up reviewing one app :-/ | 14:43 |
| dholbach | I'll blog about what we did in the last few days later on | 14:43 |
| dholbach | hopefully that'll get us some more interested folks :) | 14:43 |
| coolbhavi | :) | 14:44 |
| highvoltage | great. I've been meaning to ask about that, so does that go on the app developers blog? | 14:44 |
| dholbach | highvoltage, I don't have access to it | 14:44 |
| dholbach | but I guess we could put something up on an etherpad and get it up on the app dev blog if we all think that's the best place for it | 14:45 |
| PaoloRotolo | Hi all! | 15:07 |
| highvoltage | hi PaoloRotolo | 15:08 |
| PaoloRotolo | highvoltage, hi | 15:08 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, The new release of arb-lint is cool | 15:35 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, it reported 2 errors against koza | 15:36 |
| PaoloRotolo | I'm solving them... | 15:36 |
| dholbach | sweet | 15:37 |
| dholbach | I'm in a call - I'll be back in a few | 15:38 |
| PaoloRotolo | ok | 15:38 |
| PaoloRotolo | Fixed :D | 15:50 |
| PaoloRotolo | Successfully updated my branch | 16:10 |
| dholbach | PaoloRotolo, shall I add a comment for you to some app? | 16:26 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, yes, thanks! | 16:33 |
| dholbach | ah, that's koza again? | 16:33 |
| dholbach | PaoloRotolo, ^? | 16:34 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, yes :) I've other two errors | 16:34 |
| dholbach | perfect | 16:34 |
| PaoloRotolo | after the arb-lint update | 16:34 |
| dholbach | good work | 16:36 |
| dholbach | PaoloRotolo, dh_python2 and which other one? | 16:36 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, only python | 16:37 |
| dholbach | ah ok | 16:37 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, and I have fixed a typo in debian/control | 16:37 |
| dholbach | ah cool | 16:38 |
| dholbach | good work | 16:38 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, thanks :)! | 16:38 |
| PaoloRotolo | So, Koza is ready for the software center (IMHO) :D | 16:42 |
| dholbach | highvoltage, wendar, stgraber, ajmitch: ^ say Hi to a great new contributor to the apps world! :) | 16:43 |
| highvoltage | hi PaoloRotolo! | 16:44 |
| highvoltage | PaoloRotolo: and thanks for all the work, it's much appreciated! | 16:45 |
| dholbach | I will have to rush out in a bit because a friend of mine will have a surprise birthday party in a bit and I'll have to get a present still 0:-) | 16:45 |
| PaoloRotolo | highvoltage, dholbach Thanks a lot :) | 16:46 |
| dholbach | so if somebody could have a quick look over lp:~paolorotolo/ubuntu-app-reviews/koza that'd be cool | 16:46 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, Have a nice evening | 16:47 |
| PaoloRotolo | thanks for all | 16:47 |
| wendar | hi PaoloRotolo, and thanks! | 16:47 |
| PaoloRotolo | :) | 16:47 |
| dholbach | I just blogged about the last two days: http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/2012/07/making-better-apps-possible/ | 16:47 |
| dholbach | thanks everybody for your great work :) | 16:47 |
| dholbach | if I missed something, I'll write another blog post tomorrow :-) | 16:47 |
| PaoloRotolo | dholbach, nice, thanks again! | 16:49 |
| highvoltage | wendar: around? | 17:17 |
| wendar | highvoltage: yup | 17:17 |
| highvoltage | wendar: I think it was you who commented that even MOTU apps only need two +1 from MOTUs | 17:18 |
| highvoltage | wendar: do you think it should be like that for ARB apps too? | 17:18 |
| highvoltage | wendar: I'm thinking that if the arb pretty much agrees with that then we should get the policy changed to keep the vote queue as small as possible | 17:18 |
| wendar | highvoltage: I think 3 is pretty reasonable for arb apps | 17:19 |
| highvoltage | indeed. | 17:19 |
| wendar | highvoltage: we just need to get better about actually voting | 17:19 |
| highvoltage | 3 is still easy to get to at least. | 17:19 |
| wendar | highvoltage: I mean, I'm assuming one of the +1s is actually the person who submitted it for vote | 17:19 |
| wendar | so, three all together is really only the same as the MOTU "get at least two others to agree this is a good idea" | 17:20 |
| highvoltage | wendar: ah yes, but that could also be someone from arb-helpers who submitted it | 17:20 |
| highvoltage | (but it would still be fine I guess) | 17:20 |
| wendar | yes, that's why I was making the assumption explicit | 17:20 |
| highvoltage | ok, sorry for stating the obvious :) | 17:21 |
| wendar | I'd say at least two of the +1s should be ARB members who have done a code review/security review on the package | 17:21 |
| wendar | the last one could be more of a sanity check | 17:21 |
| wendar | and really 3 will be easier to get once we recruit a few more ARB members | 17:22 |
| wendar | mainly, I just don't want to get bogged down in policy changes :) | 17:23 |
| wendar | three +1s is the current rule | 17:23 |
| wendar | so, we can just run with it | 17:23 |
| wendar | another way of thinking about it (just thinking out loud here)... the MOTU rule of two +1s assumes a third experienced packager in the process: the person who made the package | 17:24 |
| wendar | we don't assume the *developer* is at all experienced | 17:25 |
| wendar | so we add one more | 17:25 |
| wendar | but... hmmm | 17:25 |
| wendar | I could see changing the policy so the third is an arb-helper | 17:25 |
| wendar | so, each package has to get two +1 votes from ARB board members, and one +1 vote from the guide who raised it for vote | 17:26 |
| wendar | and, the guide can be either a board member or a helper | 17:26 |
| wendar | the ARB board members are required to be ubuntu-devs | 17:27 |
| wendar | but the helpers aren't | 17:27 |
| wendar | so, that makes the whole process more parallel to MOTU | 17:27 |
| highvoltage | wendar: yeah that would be good | 17:27 |
| wendar | highvoltage: I'd be in favor of that | 17:28 |
| wendar | highvoltage: we could do it "inofficially" for now, and just have one board member +1 for experienced arb-helpers, without doing a full code review | 17:29 |
| wendar | highvoltage: like, really, I'd confidently +1 anything dholbach submits as an arb-helper :) | 17:30 |
| wendar | highvoltage: especially after a couple other board members have done a code review and +1'd it | 17:31 |
| highvoltage | wendar: *nod* | 17:31 |
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