[06:52] good morning [06:56] ajmitch, thanks for the review === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [06:57] I just commented on it again, as I wasn't quite sure how to proceed [07:04] Good morning! [07:07] hey PaoloRotolo [07:11] dholbach, hi! [07:18] dholbach, I tried to post a feedback on the app page: https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/1032/ but it says that I haven't permission [07:19] oh, I had no idea :/ [07:20] can you put up your comment on a pastebin again, then I'll try to put it in there [07:22] dholbach, ok [07:27] dholbach, here it is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1072675/ [07:29] PaoloRotolo, ok, this time it worked: https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/1032/feedback/ [07:29] you might have to be member of ~ubuntu-app-review-contributors [07:40] dholbach, good, thanks :) [08:51] dholbach: hi, sorry I didn't comment earlier [08:51] * ajmitch picked a bad time to get sick [08:51] ajmitch, oh damn :-/ [08:51] * dholbach hugs ajmitch [08:52] I hope you're going to be better soon again! [08:52] ajmitch, I updated the merge proposal again - I hope that's what you intended it to be [08:52] yeah, I seemed to be a bit better tonight [08:52] * ajmitch shall have to take a look [08:52] mutable default arguments are something of a python gotcha :) [08:53] ajmitch, it'd be great if we could get it in - then I'd trigger another build and we'd have most of the regular checks covered by a small tool :-D [08:53] the list is bound to the function definition & not reset to [] when called with no argument [08:53] ok, will look now then [08:55] ajmitch, I'm not quite sure I understand the problem with the default argument [08:55] let me throw together a quick test case [08:55] ajmitch, I guess I'm just a bit dense :) [08:58] or I'm just wrong [09:03] you're not changing the argument within the function, so you get away with it afaik, so ignore my MP comments :) [09:03] yeah, I just pass it through :) [09:23] ajmitch, does "ignore my MP comments" mean "it's approved, merge it" or are you still having a look at it? [09:27] dholbach: merge it [09:27] great [09:27] thanks [09:27] sorry, I should have marked it as such on the MP [09:28] no worries [09:29] * dholbach triggers another build [09:29] that'd hopefully make reviewing apps a bit more fun :) [09:29] especially once we add examples for successfully fixed apps [09:55] PaoloRotolo, there should be a new arb-lint version in the ppa now, which also checks if the /opt installation is correct [09:57] dholbach, great! [09:57] I'll install it at home today [09:57] super [09:59] dholbach, the app review is fun :P [09:59] cool, I'm glad you like it :) [10:00] :) [10:06] ajmitch, are we going to ignore things like usr/share/python/runtime.d/harvestwidget.rtupdate and etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/harvestwidget-crashdb.conf? [10:07] dholbach: they're added by dh_python2 & dh_apport respectively, from what I know [10:07] I think we'd need to override those to stop them being created [10:09] ajmitch, and that's what we'd want? [10:10] I guess what I'm asking is: is it unacceptable to have these files in there? [10:11] to avoid potential file conflicts, it is, since we're trying to stick close to the /opt requirement [10:11] ok [10:11] technically I don't know if it's a problem either way, as they have the package name [10:17] hum, I can't find dh_apport [10:17] it's shipped in dh-apport [10:18] I don't have it installed, but still the crashdb.conf file gets shipped in the package :) [10:18] then I'm probably wrong again & should stop misleading you [10:18] no no :) [10:19] aha, python-distutils-extra again [10:20] oh is it? [10:20] fun [10:20] * didrocks should set an autojoin :) [10:21] hey didrocks [10:21] we just found files like etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/harvestwidget-crashdb.conf [10:21] which look like they're shipped through python-distutils-extra [10:22] indeed :) [10:22] as many folks who just submitted apps didn't modify these files at all, it might make sense to just override whatever ships them somehow [10:22] this is to enable running ubuntu-bug against the upstream project [10:23] hum, they shouldn't need to modify it [10:23] but for the future it'd be nice if apport and python-distutils-extra would do something like etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/extras-harvestwidget-crashdb.conf or opt/extras.ubuntu.com/harvestwidget/etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/harvestwidget-crashdb.conf [10:23] it should just do the right thing [10:23] ah ok [10:23] well then, I don't know :) [10:23] well, apport doesn't read extras.ubuntu.com [10:23] so the bug is apport to read from there? [10:23] apport and python-distutils-extra [10:23] first for apport to check an alternate location [10:24] and then for p-d-e to install to it [10:24] yeah, then to push in the alternate location [10:24] yep [10:24] I'll have a chat with pitti [10:24] I still think that if we wanted to be serious about /opt, we would change all desktop service to run from there [10:24] ajmitch, which location would you prefer? [10:24] run/listen [10:24] like dbus and such [10:24] etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/extras-harvestwidget-crashdb.conf or opt/extras.ubuntu.com/harvestwidget/etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/harvestwidget-crashdb.conf? [10:24] yeah [10:24] opt sucks balls [10:24] :) [10:24] agreed [10:25] well, it's only 2 years that I'm advocating for this, since the ARB was created :) [10:25] * dholbach urgently looks for his valerian tea, to calm down again [10:25] no issue with /opt as long as we support it :) [10:25] didrocks: advocating for more stuff in /opt, or not at all? :) [10:26] ajmitch: everything can go in /opt, but before making this a requirement, we should ensure that apport, dbus, unity lens files, and such are listening to /opt/ [10:26] ajmitch, which of the two location would make more sense to you? etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/extras-harvestwidget-crashdb.conf or opt/extras.ubuntu.com/harvestwidget/etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/harvestwidget-crashdb.conf? [10:26] dholbach: I *suspect* we'd need to ask for an explicit exception to have it in /etc still, going by the letter of the law "_ [10:26] the good thing is: pitti is on the TB ;-) [10:26] yes, and so is stgraber :) [10:26] everything where it makes sense to have application hooked up and where you put exceptions :) [10:27] alright [10:27] didrocks: and then you still run into problems where people want to write a plugin for a certain app [10:27] whether it be nautilus, or something else [10:27] ajmitch: well, do we want plugins in all our apps? [10:27] ajmitch: this is a control gate in fact :) [10:28] to see what we want to enables for ARB apps or not [10:28] enable* [10:28] right, but we don't support them right now except for lenses as a special case [10:28] yeah, and I think it should stay that way [10:28] like just supporting that for some special cases [10:29] base system, like dbus, apport, desktop files detection [10:29] the restrictions on this could probably be made clearer for the next app developer competition, too :) [10:29] (so bamf, unity…) [10:29] some special ones like unity lens [10:41] * ajmitch needs to bug unity people some more to not have to restart for new lenses :) [10:41] ok, I talked to pitti [10:41] he said we should just move the file to opt/extras.ubuntu.com/harvestwidget/etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/harvestwidget-crashdb.conf [10:41] and apport and p-d-e will need to be fixed [10:41] problem is, my friends who work on it tell me to submit a patch [10:41] dholbach: ok [10:42] I'll add a test and docs to arb-lint about it [10:42] apport would need an SRU for it to look in the right place then [10:42] yep [10:42] and p-d-e too [10:42] yippee? [10:43] let's go shopping [10:43] sorry for sarcasm, I'm a little jaded on /opt still :) [10:43] * dholbach makes a valerian tea for ajmitch too [10:43] heh :) [10:48] * ajmitch really needs to go & sleep soon [10:48] I'm really sorry I haven't been around much for this apps sprint, this just turned out to be one of my busier weeks [10:51] we can do it again [10:51] I think we all learnt a lot [10:51] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=arb [10:52] not too many, but some will take some work [11:13] ok, I just went ahead and added tests with docs and examples [11:29] ok, lunch time :) [14:13] coolbhavi, if you install arb-lint from the PPA now, it should do a lot of the testing for you [14:13] hopefully also the /opt stuff [14:14] dholbach, sure will check it out :) Thanks! [14:14] mhall119, so I should run arb-lint on arb-lint itself? ;-) [14:15] E: The package seems to contain no files in '/opt/extras.ubuntu.com/arb- [14:15] lint' which indicates a problem with the installation of files. [14:15] ;-) [14:15] :) [14:24] dholbach: lol [14:25] dholbach: so now we can take a tarball, put it in a bzr branch, create packaging for it, and check that the package follows the extras guidelines [14:25] that's great! [14:30] yeah, we're slowly getting somewhere :) [14:30] hey highvoltage :) [14:36] howdy dholbach [14:36] how are things? [14:36] I have a scumbag brain. [14:36] what what? [14:37] hey highvoltage [14:37] I'm a victim of this again today: https://plus.google.com/118060934321492774758/posts/P6Ryggx81MU [14:37] got millions of ideas last night and couldn't sleep and now my head is just a black hole. [14:38] dholbach: "scumbag brain" is a popular meme: http://www.quickmeme.com/Scumbag-Brain/ [14:38] dholbach: and you, how are you? [14:38] hey there coolbhavi [14:38] highvoltage, how are you doing buddy? [14:39] ah ok, I had no idea about that meme :) [14:40] highvoltage, I had a similar phase and two things helped me back then: I kept pencil and paper (not a laptop!!!) next to the bed and pinned the ideas down - also doing just a little bit of sports (not too much) during the day [14:41] dholbach: I'll try the pencil. I do more and more excercise but that seems to make it worse (especially if I do it later in the day). [14:42] I finally joined the trello board. It's pretty cool. [14:43] I wanted to spend more time with arb stuff this weekend but only ended up reviewing one app :-/ [14:43] I'll blog about what we did in the last few days later on [14:43] hopefully that'll get us some more interested folks :) [14:44] :) [14:44] great. I've been meaning to ask about that, so does that go on the app developers blog? [14:44] highvoltage, I don't have access to it [14:45] but I guess we could put something up on an etherpad and get it up on the app dev blog if we all think that's the best place for it [15:07] Hi all! [15:08] hi PaoloRotolo [15:08] highvoltage, hi [15:35] dholbach, The new release of arb-lint is cool [15:36] dholbach, it reported 2 errors against koza [15:36] I'm solving them... [15:37] sweet [15:38] I'm in a call - I'll be back in a few [15:38] ok [15:50] Fixed :D [16:10] Successfully updated my branch [16:26] PaoloRotolo, shall I add a comment for you to some app? [16:33] dholbach, yes, thanks! [16:33] ah, that's koza again? [16:34] PaoloRotolo, ^? [16:34] dholbach, yes :) I've other two errors [16:34] perfect [16:34] after the arb-lint update [16:36] good work [16:36] PaoloRotolo, dh_python2 and which other one? [16:37] dholbach, only python [16:37] ah ok [16:37] dholbach, and I have fixed a typo in debian/control [16:38] ah cool [16:38] good work [16:38] dholbach, thanks :)! [16:42] So, Koza is ready for the software center (IMHO) :D [16:43] highvoltage, wendar, stgraber, ajmitch: ^ say Hi to a great new contributor to the apps world! :) [16:44] hi PaoloRotolo! [16:45] PaoloRotolo: and thanks for all the work, it's much appreciated! [16:45] I will have to rush out in a bit because a friend of mine will have a surprise birthday party in a bit and I'll have to get a present still 0:-) [16:46] highvoltage, dholbach Thanks a lot :) [16:46] so if somebody could have a quick look over lp:~paolorotolo/ubuntu-app-reviews/koza that'd be cool [16:47] dholbach, Have a nice evening [16:47] thanks for all [16:47] hi PaoloRotolo, and thanks! [16:47] :) [16:47] I just blogged about the last two days: http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/2012/07/making-better-apps-possible/ [16:47] thanks everybody for your great work :) [16:47] if I missed something, I'll write another blog post tomorrow :-) [16:49] dholbach, nice, thanks again! [17:17] wendar: around? [17:17] highvoltage: yup [17:18] wendar: I think it was you who commented that even MOTU apps only need two +1 from MOTUs [17:18] wendar: do you think it should be like that for ARB apps too? [17:18] wendar: I'm thinking that if the arb pretty much agrees with that then we should get the policy changed to keep the vote queue as small as possible [17:19] highvoltage: I think 3 is pretty reasonable for arb apps [17:19] indeed. [17:19] highvoltage: we just need to get better about actually voting [17:19] 3 is still easy to get to at least. [17:19] highvoltage: I mean, I'm assuming one of the +1s is actually the person who submitted it for vote [17:20] so, three all together is really only the same as the MOTU "get at least two others to agree this is a good idea" [17:20] wendar: ah yes, but that could also be someone from arb-helpers who submitted it [17:20] (but it would still be fine I guess) [17:20] yes, that's why I was making the assumption explicit [17:21] ok, sorry for stating the obvious :) [17:21] I'd say at least two of the +1s should be ARB members who have done a code review/security review on the package [17:21] the last one could be more of a sanity check [17:22] and really 3 will be easier to get once we recruit a few more ARB members [17:23] mainly, I just don't want to get bogged down in policy changes :) [17:23] three +1s is the current rule [17:23] so, we can just run with it [17:24] another way of thinking about it (just thinking out loud here)... the MOTU rule of two +1s assumes a third experienced packager in the process: the person who made the package [17:25] we don't assume the *developer* is at all experienced [17:25] so we add one more [17:25] but... hmmm [17:25] I could see changing the policy so the third is an arb-helper [17:26] so, each package has to get two +1 votes from ARB board members, and one +1 vote from the guide who raised it for vote [17:26] and, the guide can be either a board member or a helper [17:27] the ARB board members are required to be ubuntu-devs [17:27] but the helpers aren't [17:27] so, that makes the whole process more parallel to MOTU [17:27] wendar: yeah that would be good [17:28] highvoltage: I'd be in favor of that [17:29] highvoltage: we could do it "inofficially" for now, and just have one board member +1 for experienced arb-helpers, without doing a full code review [17:30] highvoltage: like, really, I'd confidently +1 anything dholbach submits as an arb-helper :) [17:31] highvoltage: especially after a couple other board members have done a code review and +1'd it [17:31] wendar: *nod*