[10:39] <dappermuis>  I installed the latest updates yesterday and after a restart by screen resolution has gone bad. The maximum resolution I used to get was 1920x1080 but now I can only get 1680x1050. Not sure if this is a dev related issue, but any ideas?
[12:12] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:21] <hrw> hi
[12:22] <hrw> which file keeps Qt graphics = OpenGL setting? ~/.config/Trolltech.conf and something more as it was regenerated when removed
[12:40] <apachelogger> hrw: setting?
[12:41] <apachelogger> Qt doesn't have a global graphics setting
[12:41] <hrw> apachelogger: I am trying to find out why I have unreadable Qt rendering on my dektop
[12:42] <hrw> and it is cleanly config related cause other user does not have this problem
[12:42] <apachelogger> check your QT_* envrionment variables
[12:42] <apachelogger> there is one that changes the graphicssystem
[12:42] <apachelogger> perhaps that is set for this user
[12:43] <hrw> it is set to opengl
[12:43] <hrw> the question is where to change it - which file
[12:43]  * apachelogger finds that a bad idea TBH
[12:43] <apachelogger> hrw: ah
[12:43] <apachelogger> hrw: no clue where you got it from
[12:43] <apachelogger> hrw: grep -r QT_GRAPHIC ~/.kde
[12:44]  * apachelogger has a kcm that can set the var and write it into some kde env file :P
[12:44] <hrw> did QT_GRAPHICSSSYTEM= systemsettings and disabled it (Set to default)
[12:44] <apachelogger> yah, something at startup of the user sets the var
[12:44] <apachelogger> there is no setting as such for it
[12:44] <hrw> ok, now system looks fine again
[12:50] <apachelogger> Riddell: https://code.launchpad.net/~apachelogger/usb-creator/kdefixes/+merge/113733
[14:11] <ronnoc> I want to go officially on record for requesting that Rosa's Simple Launcher replace Kickoff in Kubuntu 12.10! Kickoff is woefully out-dated and the click-click-click-click paradigm is also. Rosa is cool, hip, and uses KDE's semantic capabilities. Comments? :)
[14:22] <Daskreech> ronnoc: Throw it in the repos and watch what the distros do. It helps if you say that it's developer only and shouldn't be shipped for users. 
[14:23] <Daskreech> ronnoc: is there a ppa for it though seriously?
[14:25] <ronnoc> Daskreech: See: http://www.thebluemint.net/2012/07/two-alternative-program-launchers-for.html
[14:25]  * Daskreech reads full screen launcher and froths
[14:26] <ronnoc> Daskreech: Short answer...it's in samrog131's ppa. I've used it now for a while and, frankly, it's awesome. Not perfect, but pretty beautiful and very useable
[14:28] <Daskreech> I'll look at it :)
[14:28] <Daskreech> I'd guess if we package it and highlight it in the release notes a whole set of people will jump on it and give feedback
[14:29] <ronnoc> Daskreech: I'll be awaiting your thoughts :) BTW the screencast gives a pretty good lowdown on it. There really is nothing else like it out there.  
[14:29] <ronnoc> Daskreech: +1 to your idea 
[14:29] <ronnoc> it needs to be a 1-click install though
[14:30] <ronnoc> and the icon changed
[14:32] <ronnoc> it also uses Dolphin's "Places" panel as a view as well from within the launcher. Seriously, the Rosa devs did an amazing job
[14:35] <Daskreech> ronnoc: What' the logic behind the two part install?
[14:35] <BluesKaj> ronnoc , sounds cool , probly have to wait til it's upgraded for Quantal tho ..I see precise version in the drop down
[14:37] <ronnoc> Daskreech: On the former, I'm not sure. I guess we'd have to ask samrog why the separate .zip needs to be downloaded and isn't just included in his build. Maybe I'll ping him today and also ask when there will be a Quantal build
[14:38] <Daskreech> ronnoc: thanks
[14:40] <ronnoc> but seriously though...I began looking around and there aren't many "featured" KDE distros that still use kickoff. I don't want that aspect of Ku to lag behind not only every major OS that has moved away from that old paradigm, but most KDE-centric distro's as well. 
[14:40] <ronnoc> stay tuned....
[14:42] <jtechidna> Fedora still uses kickoff
[14:43] <jtechidna> as does opensuse
[14:43] <jtechidna> so one could say that the big 3 all still use Kickoff
[14:45] <ronnoc> jtechidna: I know some still do, but others like Mandriva, Magia, and others have moved away from kickoff. Besides, I view Kubuntu as more "progressive' than those
[14:45] <jtechidna> Kubuntu's been historically conservative in providing a standard KDE offering.
[14:46] <ronnoc> i.e. considering Calligra in place of LO and Telepathy in lieu of Kopete. And LightDM...etc.
[14:46] <ronnoc> might be standard, but not conservative :)
[14:49] <BluesKaj> never thought calligra was a replacment for libreoffice , just an alternative or another option
[14:49] <ronnoc> anyways please understand that I'm more progressive in my approach and also just bouncing an idea that I happen to like. Take it FWIW but I do feel that a full-screen launcher should at least be an option for those who prefer it
[14:50] <ScottK> ronnoc: I think I might consider such a thing once KDE's sematic capabilities are reliably running on all my computers.
[14:50] <ScottK> ronnoc: As an option for those that prefer it, that's great.  Perhaps you'd be interested in working on getting it packaged?
[14:51] <jtechidna> I'm just saying, I don't think we can say that there's an ongoing exodus from kickoff based on Madriva and derivatives using something else
[14:51] <ScottK> Personally, I mostly click the K and start typing, so I think for advanced users the launcher isn't such a big dea.
[14:51] <ronnoc> ScottK: I can do so. As mentioned earlier samrog131 has the back-end already packages for Precise. 1st step is to touch base with him which I will do today
[14:51] <ScottK> For new users, sticking with the familiar breadcrumb approach is a good thing.
[14:53]  * BluesKaj stil uses the classic kickoff , fewer clicks , a more direct approach ..visuals aren't real important but navigation is.
[14:53] <Riddell> this conversation reminds me I want to look at sal
[14:53] <ronnoc> to me, those users are far more likely to end up on xfce / cinnamon / mate. idk...I'm probably wrong. 1st step is to get it properly-packaged and see how it's received 
[14:54] <Riddell> ronnoc: how's your packaging skills? :)
[14:55] <ronnoc> Riddell: hmmm... I'm eager to learn. I'll leave it at that. lol.
[14:55] <ronnoc> I've built many packages from source...how much harder could it be?
[14:56] <Riddell> actually it's already here https://launchpad.net/~samrog131/+archive/ppa/+packages
[14:56] <ronnoc> BluesKaj: It works the same way in Simple Launcher. The search box is there...you just start typing. The difference it it's full-screen and also has a semantic tab :)
[14:57] <ronnoc> Riddell: Yea you must not have scrolled up far enough :p 
[14:57] <ronnoc> but as of right now, a separate .zip must also be downloaded and installed. Also it'snot packaged for Quantal
[14:58] <ronnoc> BluesKaj: watch the video at about the 5:00 mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bk07S8CS1MI
[15:04] <jtechidna> personally, I never use Kickoff past clicking on one of my favorites in the first pane. For everything else I'll just type in to the search box or just hit alt + f2 and type there
[15:05] <BluesKaj> Hi - blueskaj's wife here - he had to go out but should be back in about an hour - I will mention to him about watching the video, ronnoc
[15:06]  * ronnoc waves to BluesKaj's wife. Thanks :)
[15:07] <BluesKaj> yw, ronnoc  : )
[15:08] <ronnoc> jtechidna: I agree. But I'm basing this discussion strictly from the POV of new users / converts, as well as noting other dominant trends in other major OS's on the market (not just 'Nix). Personally, 90 pct of time time I alt-F2 as well. KRunner is awesome,no doubt about it. But serves a different purpose 
[15:14] <Riddell> ronnoc: looked at sal-qml?
[15:14]  * Daskreech bows towards BluesKaj's wife
[15:17] <BluesKaj> nice to meet you, Daskreech  : )
[15:19] <ronnoc> Riddell: I had never heard of it until now. Looks pretty interesting in how it incorporates external and social categories to the standard stock ones
[15:22] <Daskreech> BluesKaj: Sentiments are returned :)
[15:44] <BluesKaj> ronnoc, thanks , watching the video now 
[15:53] <ronnoc> BluesKaj: WB
[15:55] <BluesKaj> nice launcher ronnoc , seems quite comprenhensive , alsmost like a fancy file manager in some ways 
[15:57] <ronnoc> BluesKaj: I think what sets it apart are the "places" panel and the semantic tab. Let's see what we can do to get it packaged for Quantal. Thanks for checking it out
[15:57]  * BluesKaj curses the kB ... can't be be my wonderful,typing skills :)
[15:58] <BluesKaj> ronnoc, I have 12.04 on the other disk . think I'll switch over and see what it looks like there
[15:58] <BluesKaj> bb in a few
[15:59] <ronnoc> Do note that you need to download and execute a separate .zip file after the launcher has been installed from the repo as per the blog post 
[16:04] <BluesKaj> ok , switched to precise ... adding the ppa
[16:11] <BluesKaj> er the deb rather
[16:18] <BluesKaj> ronnoc, installed takeoff , nice , are there any themes available ?
[16:29] <BluesKaj> ok , BBL 
[17:18] <littlegirl> Hey there, have any of you tried DocBook 5.0, and are you considering using it for the Kubuntu documentation?
[17:19] <ScottK> Considering you're one of the main Kubuntu documentation writers, I think the question is are you?
[17:20] <skreech_> :-)
[17:20] <littlegirl> I am, now that I got comfortable with it. I had to play around with it for a while to get the feel for how it's used. But I don't make official decisions on the Kubuntu documentation, and I figure others may have a reason for wanting to hold it back. (:
[17:20] <skreech_> where is nixternal ?
[17:21]  * littlegirl looks under her cup
[17:21] <BluesKaj> ronnoc, I'm sure you'll be happy to know the precise version of takeoff installs fine and seems to work ok so far in Quantal, I didn't add the ppa , just DL'd the deb 64 bit precise version and installed without a hitch
[17:23] <ScottK> skreech_: nixternal is mostly elswhere.
[17:23] <skreech_> Yeah it was kinda rhetorical 
[17:23] <skreech_> But I do miss him
[17:23] <ScottK> Docs are littlegirl, darkwing, and jjesse (who is also elsewhere a lot)
[17:23]  * ScottK too.
[17:24] <skreech_> darkwing? Duck!
[17:24] <ScottK> Careful.  You'll get Disney after him again.
[17:24] <ScottK> littlegirl: As long as the upstream KDE docs are in Docbook 4, does it make sense for us to use a different major version?
[17:24] <skreech_> I have a friend named disney. Not sure he'd want her after him
[17:25] <skreech_> what would that mean interms of packaging?
[17:25] <littlegirl> ScottK: There's no overwhelming reason to do so, but the DocBook manual for 5.0 addresses the question of whether to switch by saying you should do so since it's the future of DocBook.
[17:25] <littlegirl> Did Disney seriously go after him?
[17:25] <ScottK> Yes.
[17:26] <ScottK> littlegirl: Eventually.  The question is when.
[17:26] <ScottK> Generically I can see merit in using what KDE uses.
[17:27] <littlegirl> ScottK: The main difference is that a few of the elements have been removed/renamed, and you no longer are required to use a DTD line (unless you include entities, in which case you use a whittled down version of a DTD), but instead declare the DocBook version in the top level element.
[17:27] <littlegirl> ScottK: Good point. I'll see if I can find out what they're using. (:
[17:27] <ScottK> littlegirl: It's 4.2.
[17:27] <ScottK> (I think)
[17:27] <littlegirl> Ah, okay, then maybe we should leave it alone, but I'll check just in case they're changing it.
[17:28] <ScottK> Docbook 4.5 is the latest that's packaged right now.
[17:28] <ScottK> We also don't want to get ahead of that (although updating the package is an option)
[17:28] <littlegirl> The one issue I have with the upgrade is that they got rid of the <interface> element in favor of the <gui...> elements, and I don't feel that all possible interfaces are covered by the <gui...> elements. For instance, the panel really doesn't fit into anything but <interface> unless you were to make it an <application>, but most users wouldn't think of it that way.
[17:29] <littlegirl> The docbook5 package is in the Quantal package manager.
[17:29] <littlegirl> I installed it yesterday. (:
[17:29] <ScottK> Ah. Separate package.  Makes sense.
[17:29] <ScottK> Nevermind on that point then.
[17:29] <ScottK> I think it's really up to you and darkwing.
[17:29] <littlegirl> I have yet to find out whether you can install both and have them coexist peacefully on the machine without docbook5 removing or superceding docbook4.5. (:
[17:30] <littlegirl> I'll leave it as is for now, since it's a pretty minor and quick thing to switch it all over if he wants to change it. (:
[17:31] <jtechidna> #define FALSE 0
[17:31] <jtechidna> #define TRUE !FALSE
[17:31] <jtechidna> it's another one of those days...
[17:39] <ronnoc> BluesKaj: Good, but we were talking about Rosa's Simple Launcher :p
[17:41] <BluesKaj> oops :)
[17:42] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1000153] package libqtcore4 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.1 failed to install/upgrade: conffile './etc/xdg/Troll... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1000153 (by Salih EMIN)
[17:42] <BluesKaj> ronnoc, , guess i should have scrolled up and read more cloesly ...was busy multitasking
[17:43] <BluesKaj> but I did use the url you posted 
[17:43] <ronnoc> BluesKaj: It's in the same repo...but see here to get it running: http://www.thebluemint.net/2012/07/two-alternative-program-launchers-for.html
[17:44] <ronnoc> there's also a zip file that needs run after the PPA / Deb download
[18:02] <jtechidna> bleh, Fedora doesn't come with wget installed by default :s
[18:09] <skreech_> jtechidna: why would you need anything but curl?
[19:15] <BluesKaj> ronnoc, managed to install rosa-launcher on my precise disk , also very nice ...to me it's a toss up between rosa and takeoff. I'll use them both for a while and then decide which one stays.
[19:21] <littlegirl> Okay, I found a good reason not to switch to DocBook 5 yet. Apparently the tools commonly used to validate it no longer work properly, and so far there are only two Java tools (one of which is a Windows tool) and one commercial tool to validate them, so maybe it's better to wait. (:
[19:50] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1021886] package libqtgui4 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.1 failed to install/upgrade @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1021886 (by Sergey Shambir)
[20:30] <ronnoc> BluesKaj: Nice let me know your thoughts after playing with them for a bit :)
[20:43] <BluesKaj> ronnoc, yup, I'll let you know in a few days
[20:55] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1021886] package libqtgui4 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.1 failed to install/upgrade @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1021886 (by Sergey Shambir)
[20:57] <ScottK> Any objection to me backporting http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/105423/#review15478 to our 4.9 packages?
[20:57] <ScottK> (now that it's accepted upstream)
[20:59] <Riddell> ScottK: new string?
[20:59] <ScottK> Yes.
[20:59] <ScottK> But it's buried a couple levels deep in a config diaglog.
[21:00] <Riddell> oh 4.9, is it upstream in 4.9?
[21:00] <ScottK> No.  Trunk.
[21:00] <ScottK> (which is already not 4.9)
[21:01] <ScottK> We have to figure out what we're doing with distro unique strings anyway.
[21:01] <ScottK> Once we figure that out, I promise not to forget to add this one to the stack.
[21:01] <apachelogger> ScottK: please add a work item somewhere
[21:02] <ScottK> For?
[21:02] <apachelogger> figruing that out
[21:02] <ScottK> OK.
[21:02]  * ScottK looks around
[21:02] <apachelogger> also we could simply extract that particular string from upstream shortly before release
[21:02] <apachelogger> chances are the major languages have picked up the change by then
[21:03] <apachelogger> needs some tweaking in kde-l10n debian/rules
[21:03]  * ScottK notes that https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo points to 11.10 stuff TODO.
[21:03] <ScottK> FYI.
[21:03] <apachelogger> ScottK: topic
[21:03] <ScottK> Thanks.
[21:04] <ScottK> Someone should make the wiki page mention that.
[21:04] <apachelogger> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-postponeds
[21:04] <apachelogger> that still needs approval BTW
[21:04] <Riddell> ScottK: the todo wiki page should be killed since we use work items now
[21:08] <ScottK> Added to q-packaging.
[21:09] <ScottK> Riddell: The TODO page is highly googleable.  Instead of killing it, it should point somewhere useful.
[21:10] <ScottK> So does that mean I can backport it?
[21:10] <ScottK> I got sick of having to recompile konsole the way I wanted and I'd hate to have to do it for another year.
[21:11] <Riddell> ScottK: yeah go ahead
[21:11] <ScottK> Thanks.
[21:11] <Riddell> but tsdgeos might eat us if the i18n issue doesn't get looked at by someone
[21:14] <apachelogger> we shall bribe him
[21:14] <apachelogger> or keep him occupied
[21:38] <ScottK> apachelogger: That, BTW, was my first non-Python commit for KDE.
[21:39] <ScottK> I still don't know any C++ or Qt.  I just looked at similar stuff and copy/paste/edited until it looked reasonable.
[21:40] <ScottK> Done.
[21:54] <apachelogger> ScottK: that is how I do python :)
[21:54] <apachelogger> ScottK++
[21:54] <apachelogger> for perl I apply a google based programming paradigm ^^