[00:20] New news from planetubuntu: John Baer: UN5 GTK 3.4 Theme for Ubuntu 12.04 LTS Released || Jono Bacon: Community Leadership Summit 2012: A Week Away! [02:21] New news from planetubuntu: Jason Gerard DeRose: PyGI + GStreamer 1.0, BFF [03:51] New news from planetubuntu: Paul Tagliamonte: Thinkpad t520i Palmrest === hobgoblin is now known as elfy [15:42] Pici: discuss [15:42] it was a good topic [15:43] Pici: thoughts, I want to run $GAME - what's your suggestion ? [15:43] ikonia and I were discussing wether WINE was a feasable solution for running windows programs [15:44] ahh, mine point was "depending on wine as a long term solution" rather than just running [15:44] I personally think that WINE can be stable enough to fit many user's needs. [15:44] Pici: I think it can too for certain software, [15:44] or rather, the programs running under wine can be stable. [15:44] I don't see it for things like games which have regular patches and demands on the resources directly [15:44] there has been a heap of work on wine for games [15:45] AlanBell: yes, but in ubuntu world, that doesn't matter as the wine package isn't updated [15:45] which is kind of good as games are quite demanding and the upshot is that wine is really good for regular applications now [15:45] AlanBell: and to be honest, the wine guys wil struggle to keep up with each software package and it's updates [15:45] AlanBell: define regular applications ?# [15:46] windows applications that are just forms and windows [15:46] non-games, basic office apps [15:46] ok, so say "word" for arguments sake [15:46] yeah, stuff like that [15:46] yes, I can see some value in things like word, or basic form driven software in wine [15:46] I didn't specifically mean MS Office [15:46] I was thinking Lotus Notes which I used to run under wine [15:46] Pici: no, I take the point [15:47] k [15:47] AlanBell: same sort of example, sure, I'm with you on that [15:47] I don't use it any more, but wine development picked up fast when games got viable [15:47] software with big demands and regular patches that change the core code base, photoshop, games, I don't see it [15:47] AlanBell: I still don't see it as viable [15:48] but I suspect that is the definition of viable [15:48] I don't use Wine either. I have a seprate Windows computer for my Windows stuff. [15:48] oh sure [15:48] wine got more developers when it started to look like it might be plausible that a game might kinda start under wine [15:48] as joe blogs I want to open up software, and use it %99 as good as if it was native and depend that it will not break randomly tomorrow [15:48] I don't see wine delivering on that option [15:49] I see wine on ubuntu as even less due to the version restrictions [15:49] I wasn't aware of regressions happening on wine, I thought things tend to move in a forward direction [15:49] AlanBell: I don't think it's regessions [15:49] more the software it's running changes and it's broke [15:50] ah, I see [15:50] eg: a patch happens, a version update, and wine just then fails [15:50] (not all situations of coursE) [15:50] A program patch, not a Wine patch [15:50] but that's why I was saying something that works today with a smile, may totally fail tomorrow [15:50] sure, a program patch [15:50] the more basic the software, the less the patch seems to effect it [15:50] and that's why I'm saying I don't believe the wine guys could ever keep up [15:50] so much software, so many updates to that software, wow, it would be mamoth [15:51] that doesn't mean I think wine is bad though [15:51] quick fire up to get something, or try something, or convert it, sure [15:51] but it's the depending on wine bit I have an issue with [15:51] Do they actually put fixes in for speicific programs? [15:52] Pici: I've seen reference to patches to fix a bug with a specific program [15:52] I don't know if that's actually that program, or the problem that program creates [15:53] ikonia: I think we agree that if they were putting in that many speicific fixes then their codebase would explode. [15:53] the work load would be amazing [15:53] Pici: it would be a 1TB download with mb updates/deltas every day [15:54] I think people trying to run games makes the issue look worse than it is as they are a hot moving target [15:54] Yeah [15:54] New news from planetubuntu: Matthew Revell: Technical Writer wanted at Canonical || Launchpad News: Are you a technical writer -Want to work with amazing people and great team- Come join us || Launchpad News: We’re hiring software engineers to work on cloud pro [15:54] boot the root issues (for me) of being able to depend on it as a solution at a wine level, and then at a wine level that your distro is running/maintaining is just not viable [15:55] quick tasks, eg: just open up word to save it as a different format, or check your email on lotus notes, sure sure, [15:55] but running your business, class work, gaming life around it, it's just not going to fly [15:55] and I don't see how the wine guys can be responsible for that or even have a chance at it [15:55] I agree, running your business through wine is probably not the best solution [15:56] Pici: I come to you for Pici IT support, I give you your consulting fee, and say "I'm doing music production at college, I need to run Pro-tools, should I use my linux box?" what is your opinion ? [15:58] (I admit I'm picking a very complex bit of software, but I couldn't think of a non-business bit of software, so call it generic music software) [15:58] ikonia: I wouldn't want to be responsible for trying to get it to work under Linux. [15:58] Pici: ok, but I'm depending on it for college...... [15:58] do you recommend wine or a native solution ? [15:59] ikonia: Natiev. [15:59] Native too [15:59] that's the point I'm going for [15:59] depending on it for a solution for anything, fun, work, study, is just not viable [15:59] Sometimes I forget that not everyone is willing to fight with their software to get it to work. [16:00] as a "tool" I think it's great, as a solution, I don't find it acceptable [16:00] Pici: you're not alone [16:01] Pici: better idea of where I'm trying to come from ? [16:01] ikonia: much better, thanks :) [16:01] it's a good discussion, [16:02] aye [16:02] this is the sort of thing I wish you could discuss in #ubuntu-offtopic [16:02] (I know you technically can, just wouldn't get input/discussion like this) [16:02] maybe I'll move -discuss a little lower down my irssi window list [16:09] heh [18:24] New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu App Developer Blog: Ubuntu app showdown deadline approaching: get your submissions ready! === isitme is now known as guntbert [21:25] New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Cloud Portal: EC2 S3 Mirrors globally available [22:25] New news from planetubuntu: Benjamin Kerensa: Will Thunderbird Get Forked Proper? || Jorge Castro: I am digging the S3 mirrors...