[15:42] <ikonia> Pici: discuss
[15:42] <ikonia> it was a good topic
[15:43] <ikonia> Pici: thoughts, I want to run $GAME - what's your suggestion ?
[15:43] <Pici> ikonia and I were discussing wether WINE was a feasable solution for running windows programs
[15:44] <ikonia> ahh, mine point was "depending on wine as a long term solution" rather than just running
[15:44] <Pici> I personally think that WINE can be stable enough to fit many user's needs.
[15:44] <ikonia> Pici: I think it can too for certain software,
[15:44] <Pici> or rather, the programs running under wine can be stable.
[15:44] <ikonia> I don't see it for things like games which have regular patches and demands on the resources directly
[15:44] <AlanBell> there has been a heap of work on wine for games
[15:45] <ikonia> AlanBell: yes, but in ubuntu world, that doesn't matter as the wine package isn't updated
[15:45] <AlanBell> which is kind of good as games are quite demanding and the upshot is that wine is really good for regular applications now
[15:45] <ikonia> AlanBell: and to be honest, the wine guys wil struggle to keep up with each software package and it's updates
[15:45] <ikonia> AlanBell: define regular applications ?#
[15:46] <AlanBell> windows applications that are just forms and windows
[15:46] <Pici> non-games, basic office apps
[15:46] <ikonia> ok, so say "word" for arguments sake
[15:46] <AlanBell> yeah, stuff like that
[15:46] <ikonia> yes, I can see some value in things like word, or basic form driven software in wine
[15:46] <Pici> I didn't specifically mean MS Office
[15:46] <AlanBell> I was thinking Lotus Notes which I used to run under wine
[15:46] <ikonia> Pici: no, I take the point
[15:47] <Pici> k
[15:47] <ikonia> AlanBell: same sort of example, sure, I'm with you on that
[15:47] <AlanBell> I don't use it any more, but wine development picked up fast when games got viable
[15:47] <ikonia> software with big demands and regular patches that change the core code base, photoshop, games, I don't see it
[15:47] <ikonia> AlanBell: I still don't see it as viable
[15:48] <ikonia> but I suspect that is the definition of viable
[15:48] <Pici> I don't use Wine either. I have a seprate Windows computer for my Windows stuff.
[15:48] <AlanBell> oh sure
[15:48] <AlanBell> wine got more developers when it started to look like it might be plausible that a game might kinda start under wine
[15:48] <ikonia> as joe blogs I want to open up software, and use it %99 as good as if it was native and depend that it will not break randomly tomorrow
[15:48] <ikonia> I don't see wine delivering on that option
[15:49] <ikonia> I see wine on ubuntu as even less due to the version restrictions
[15:49] <AlanBell> I wasn't aware of regressions happening on wine, I thought things tend to move in a forward direction
[15:49] <ikonia> AlanBell: I don't think it's regessions
[15:49] <ikonia> more the software it's running changes and it's broke
[15:50] <AlanBell> ah, I see
[15:50] <ikonia> eg: a patch happens, a version update, and wine just then fails
[15:50] <ikonia> (not all situations of coursE)
[15:50] <Pici> A program patch, not a Wine patch
[15:50] <ikonia> but that's why I was saying something that works today with a smile, may totally fail tomorrow
[15:50] <ikonia> sure, a program patch
[15:50] <ikonia> the more basic the software, the less the patch seems to effect it
[15:50] <ikonia> and that's why I'm saying I don't believe the wine guys could ever keep up
[15:50] <ikonia> so much software, so many updates to that software, wow, it would be mamoth
[15:51] <ikonia> that doesn't mean I think wine is bad though
[15:51] <ikonia> quick fire up to get something, or try something, or convert it, sure
[15:51] <ikonia> but it's the depending on wine bit I have an issue with
[15:51] <Pici> Do they actually put fixes in for speicific programs?
[15:52] <ikonia> Pici: I've seen reference to patches to fix a bug with a specific program
[15:52] <ikonia> I don't know if that's actually that program, or the problem that program creates
[15:53] <Pici> ikonia: I think we agree that if they were putting in that many speicific fixes then their codebase would explode.
[15:53] <ikonia> the work load would be amazing
[15:53] <ikonia> Pici: it would be a 1TB download with mb updates/deltas every day
[15:54] <ikonia> I think people trying to run games makes the issue look worse than it is as they are a hot moving target
[15:54] <Pici> Yeah
[15:54] <ikonia> boot the root issues (for me) of being able to depend on it as a solution at a wine level, and then at a wine level that your distro is running/maintaining is just not viable
[15:55] <ikonia> quick tasks, eg: just open up word to save it as a different format, or check your email on lotus notes, sure sure,
[15:55] <ikonia> but running your business, class work, gaming life around it, it's just not going to fly
[15:55] <ikonia> and I don't see how the wine guys can be responsible for that or even have a chance at it
[15:55] <Pici> I agree, running your business through wine is probably not the best solution
[15:56] <ikonia> Pici: I come to you for Pici IT support, I give you your consulting fee, and say "I'm doing music production at college, I need to run Pro-tools, should I use my linux box?" what is your opinion ?
[15:58] <ikonia> (I admit I'm picking a very complex bit of software, but I couldn't think of a non-business bit of software, so call it generic music software)
[15:58] <Pici> ikonia: I wouldn't want to be responsible for trying to get it to work under Linux.
[15:58] <ikonia> Pici: ok, but I'm depending on it for college......
[15:58] <ikonia> do you recommend wine or a native solution ?
[15:59] <Pici> ikonia: Natiev.
[15:59] <Pici> Native too
[15:59] <ikonia> that's the point I'm going for
[15:59] <ikonia> depending on it for a solution for anything, fun, work, study, is just not viable
[15:59] <Pici> Sometimes I forget that not everyone is willing to fight with their software to get it to work.
[16:00] <ikonia> as a "tool" I think it's great, as a solution, I don't find it acceptable
[16:00] <ikonia> Pici: you're not alone
[16:01] <ikonia> Pici: better idea of where I'm trying to come from ?
[16:01] <Pici> ikonia: much better, thanks :)
[16:01] <ikonia> it's a good discussion,
[16:02] <Pici> aye
[16:02] <ikonia> this is the sort of thing I wish you could discuss in #ubuntu-offtopic
[16:02] <ikonia> (I know you technically can, just wouldn't get input/discussion like this)
[16:02] <ikonia> maybe I'll move -discuss a little lower down my irssi window list
[16:09] <AlanBell> heh