[00:19] [Jono Bacon] Community Leadership Summit 2012: A Week Away! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/07/06/community-leadership-summit-2012-a-week-away/ [00:47] aquarius: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-18728303 they are not without issue [00:53] AlanBell, yeah, popey already trolled me with that :) [00:53] the idea that semtex gives off smoke while it's in someone's bag seems a bit iffy to me :P [07:20] Morning all [07:34] morning diplo [08:01] Good morning peeps :) [08:19] morning [08:21] Ug ug [08:22] Bit of a grey day. Is it beer o'clock yet? [08:26] yes [08:27] http://www.raintoday.co.uk/ [08:27] yum [08:33] hello all [08:36] Happy Friday, everyone! :-D [08:36] Even if it is cold, wet and miserable here. :-/ [08:40] good morning everyone. [08:43] hello JamesTait === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [08:44] Hey brobostigon. :) [08:44] :) [08:46] Add muggy [08:47] and 16 celcius. [08:48] Simmer for 25 mins [08:49] lol [09:06] Why am I so tired? I got to bed at 10.30 last night. This sucks [09:08] i know when it is hot and muggy, i dont sleep properly,. so that might be a factor. [09:10] * bigcalm spends the day yawning [09:10] because you're a new father, so best-case only get to sleep 3 hours at a time? [09:10] or is that just me [09:10] Might be just you directhex [09:10] congrats hexxy :) [09:10] i get that same complaint from my colleague sat next to me on a daily basis at the moment :< lol [09:11] More so to his wife ;) [09:11] remember when it was summer for like a week or two in april? man that was great. i miss that [09:11] Ha [09:11] This _is_ a normal summer [09:11] its cold today - i actually had porridge to warm up! [09:11] July 6th. [09:12] 4 days to pay day! [09:12] * BigRedS is barely 4 days *from* payday [09:13] 8 days to the RAT! [09:13] !rat [09:13] Aww [09:18] I already have two rats, they're very cute. [09:19] Do they get you drunk? [09:19] No, they're very enthusiastic about everything they find, though. [09:20] rats ew [09:20] rats yay! [09:21] Morning. [09:23] Comic Sans Day in .nl [09:23] How is that even a day [09:23] ? [09:24] bigcalm: I don't know, but 3fm.nl, klm.nl and xs4all.nl are in Comic Sans :) [09:24] Cute [09:24] what's RAT?: o [09:24] How about TV? Are news tickers in Comic Sans? [09:24] Are they trying to make people want to close their browsers? ;) [09:24] arsen: A train with beer on it [09:24] bigcalm: some radio presenters had an idea.. and people went ahead and did it :) [09:24] arsen: The Real Ale Train [09:25] The 'Real Ale Train; [09:25] ah yes [09:25] sounds fun [09:25] dwatkins: "Productivity way up" [09:25] when is the RAT? [09:25] 14th July [09:25] ta [09:25] where at?:o [09:25] Haha [09:25] The Water Cress Line [09:25] is it CAMRA sorted? [09:25] (down south) [09:25] popey: have you lost your ticket? [09:26] no, it's --> there [09:26] Phew [09:27] i think [09:27] :| [09:27] ah yes, MartijnVdS - this appears to mention it, although I havn't passted it into googletranslate yet: "Een goeie traditie wordt voortgezet door Coen en Sander: Comic Sans dag! Gooi je site om op 6 juli" [09:28] well that sounds epic, shame ive missed the harveys one:O [09:28] should buy a GBBF ticket tbh [09:28] Off to the pub tonight for a few pints of ale. Then the LUG this coming Wednesday for another couple of pints. Goodness knows what the RAT will throw at me :) [09:28] a couple of pints? [09:29] gord: I have to drive to and from the LUG in Wolverhampton. I know my limits and I stick to them [09:29] bigcalm: i was saying that the rat would throw a couple of pints [09:29] Ah [09:29] Doh [09:30] I can imagine some of my fellow travellers might throw a couple over me though [09:30] popey: how are you python skills feeling this morning? [09:30] non-existent [09:30] :( [09:31] Oh dear [09:31] Skipping the competition? [09:32] Ooh a bit more lively here now [09:33] someone mentioned babies, and sleep. [09:33] diplo: did you see I got the webcam working? [09:33] and here we are on ale! [09:33] yeah, saw your vid last night [09:33] good work :) [09:33] Yay [09:33] More clouds though :( [09:33] Heh [09:33] is that the buntu webcam guide? popeys? :o [09:33] They make for good time lapse videos [09:34] diplo: there were birds too! [09:34] My work colleague gone off to jamaica for 2 weeks [09:34] i fancied doing that with a raspberry pi and trying to make timelapse/security vids :) [09:34] Asked yesterday, got anything outstanding. Him: No [09:34] First thing this morning, andy did damien mention this to you to sort [09:34] As he hasn't done it [09:34] Grr!!!!! [09:34] :( [09:36] I have a webcam with no IR-filter, so once I get a ring of IR LEDs around it, I can use it as a day and night camera to watch my pets. [09:36] iirc there's an application that will record only when there's movement. [09:37] yes, webcam [09:37] it's called "motion", surprisingly [09:37] * popey is using it [09:37] that too [09:37] :o [09:37] thanks MartijnVdS - I knew it was something that might be difficult to google, i.e. a dictionary word [09:38] years ago we caught the security guard at our office mutilating desktop toys (penguins) in the middle of the night using an O2 and securitylite to save video when there was movement. [09:38] Not the penguins! [09:38] we would come in to work and find he'd ripped the head off a penguin toy, so we decided to make sure we caught him on video. [09:39] after we reported it and provided the evidence, we never saw that security guard again, unsurprisingly [09:39] that's a bit weird [09:39] the tearing up of the penguins, not the not coming back [09:39] erp [09:39] indeed, BigRedS - really surreal and slightly disturbinf [09:39] *disturbing [09:40] the other day i was on the tube and glanced past some old dude reading what can only be described as a hardcore bondage story [09:42] If there was ever an Off Topic sentence, that was it :) [09:44] that's not so bad! We're talking about people doing weird things [09:44] :) [09:44] Getting dangerously close to on-topic, is there a raspberry pi alike that does SATA for <£50ish? [09:44] A little weird++ for here? [09:45] Small rather than really low power (since there'd be a disk to power...) [09:45] can you not get a sata -> usb adapter? [09:46] BigRedS: buy an external harddrive and pull out the usb->sata controller? [09:46] yeah, I'm more wondering about getting SATA speeds out of it [09:46] I have 2 such on my desk. One of which has a power socket [09:46] I've a USB/sATA converta [09:46] converter, even [09:46] Fair enough [09:46] not quite sure how that happened... [09:46] What's the throughput for USB, 450 MB/s? [09:46] just wondering how much of a bottleneck it would be, also the Raspberry Pi is unlikely to achieve 3 GB/s [09:47] I don't know, but the plan is to do disk-to-disk copies and I wondered if I could get quicker than USB [09:47] just as I wrote that, I got disconnected from my Pi at home :-/ [09:47] BigRedS: e-sata? [09:47] It heard you badmouthing it [09:47] dwatkins: yeah, that'd work, too [09:47] yeah, it's upset [09:48] I mean, so would USB, but I figured I'd check if it was still cheap to get quicker [09:48] I had it crash the other day, so I'm not entirely surprised. It's probably sitting at a kernel panic screen sulking. [09:49] sorry bigcalm - on-topic in the sense it's the other weird disturbing thing thats happened to me recently. [09:49] Ah, I've always viewed those as a tantrum [09:49] not what you expect from a 60somethign banker at canary wharf. [09:49] sulking is when it's sat in single-user asking for a root password [09:49] arsen: tis ok. Just a bit odd out of context for in here :) [09:49] in my mind [09:50] does the raspberry pi ship with debian? [09:50] arsen: it doesn't ship with anything, there are various distros available, though [09:50] ok - presumably buntu install is straightforward though?:) [09:51] some podcast show the pi running Fedora or Debian Wheezy [09:51] http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads has the squeeze download [09:51] arsen: no, but Debian is [09:51] I gather there's some reason Ubuntu won't be possible on the Pi [09:51] arh :/ [09:51] arsen: the chip is too old for ubuntu [09:51] interesting. :D [09:51] Doesn't support the arm architecture [09:51] armv7 over v6 or something i think [09:52] it's arm6, ubuntu only supports arm7 [09:52] gotcha. [09:52] It's also worth pointing out that it's really not intended as a desktop replacement [09:52] I hate to think how many people would've come away with a horrendous view of Ubuntu had Ubuntu decided to releae an arm6 kernel [09:53] +1 [09:53] as it is they come away with a horrendous view of fedora.. which is fine ;) [09:53] spose. to be honest my choice of distribution for what i'd put on it would be based on opinion of the day, rather than anything sensical. [09:53] I mean, if you're showing off the fact that this hardware runs Quake3, nobody's going to enjoy running Firefox on it [09:54] im forced into daily interaction with SuSE RT, so anything is fresh air to me.. :) [09:54] It takes a full minute to render an xplanet image, it's not exactly fast ;) [09:54] I think I've got a guy at work to the point where he doesn't like mentioning the word 'SuSe' in front of me [09:54] I used to work with SLES, it was less annoying than RHEL. [09:54] * arsen shudders [09:55] for a server i dont mind so much, YaST sucks but im not sure RHEL is worse [09:55] * dwatkins shudders [09:55] the problem comes when using SLED [09:55] yeah, I tended to install with the rpm commandline in SLES, hated YaST lots. [09:56] I think I installed SLED about twice, and the second time I took an image of the machine. [09:56] yast is a pain tbh, any networking change = restart entire networking stack etc. silly stuff. [09:56] I kinda get the whole philosophy behind having a single config mechanism and so on, but yeah, it did silly things [09:57] its actually OK as an itnerface, its quick to change stuff, but the way it has to go abotu doing it is questionable. especially as a server OS - you cant actually use it remotely because it'l likely knock you off the network. fun stuff. [09:57] at least you can work on interfaces seperately with [09:57] I used to love the config roulette you played. Every time I configured something it would apparently randomly deconfigure something else [09:58] ill be playing with OEL soon, which is an excuse to get ubuntu on the desktops. [09:58] So I'd install Apache and then find I've reverted to mono audio or something [09:58] oh yes BigRedS, it populates fields by default that were previously (intentionally) blank, and therefore will, for example, empty the routing table, or change the hostname [09:58] and all you did was install .. dig? lol. [09:59] haha, yeah, that's what always got me - how unrelated the now-broken thing was to what I changed [09:59] i've got ~100 servers to maintain like this :P [10:00] and if i manually (deb/rhel/others) style edit configs, restart stuff, it wont update yast's backend config DB, and consequently doesnt work, or isnt persistent best case. annoying! [10:00] we'll see how OEL is i guess. [10:02] OEL? [10:03] Ah, Oracle [10:03] Wasn't that 'Unbreakable'? [10:08] BigRedS: totally unbreakable [10:08] hi [10:09] meant to be, BigRedS [10:09] so their sales guy tells me. [10:10] i'm not too keen on the idea of solaris, but i could possibly stomach OEL [10:10] what's the problem with ubuntu? [10:11] performance, in this environment anyway [10:11] ubuntu will be my desktop of choice though :) [10:11] oh this gets worse [10:11] :P [10:11] php app wrote in 2005, running on centos4 [10:11] Now want it working on centos6 on php5.3.3 [10:11] jacobw: The 'Unfakeable' thing RH did got me to give it another go [10:11] :/ [10:11] Don't want much in a few hours [10:11] well, Scientific [10:11] The OS wasn't as good as the T-shirts :( [10:12] yeah some guys i knew use scientific. [10:12] know* [10:12] I finally completed this painting yesterday [10:12] oimon uses SL at his school place i believe [10:12] Working on it for so long. [10:13] if im honesti haevnt looked at SL much. [10:13] final result: http://i.imgur.com/yGEZp.jpg [10:13] that's a painting?:o [10:14] Morning all [10:15] Yes arsen [10:15] but it looks like a photo of a bar?:o [10:16] Thats the idea:P [10:16] I started by taking a photo of a bar then I painted it to the canvas [10:16] so the entire thing is a physical painting?:o [10:16] some closeups: [10:16] http://i.imgur.com/z9GJ0.jpg [10:16] http://i.imgur.com/vuHRe.jpg [10:16] do you have a snap of the canvas edge too? just to mess with my mind totally? that's awesome.. [10:17] bigcalm: I got the newer version of cyanogen mod on now all the same apps 97meg free space over the 18meg from the default and all the apps bar 2 smaller ones or on the phone rather than all being on the sdcard woohoo tis like a new phone [10:17] very impressive, brlabs [10:17] Here are images from the process: [10:17] http://i.imgur.com/c70gX.jpg [10:17] http://i.imgur.com/I1AMP.jpg [10:17] it's incredible :P if it was a wall of my favourite spirits id be buying one :P [10:17] wow [10:18] davmor2: yay [10:18] looks like IRL photoshop :P [10:18] Thank you arsen:) [10:18] thanks dwatkins [10:19] bigcalm: oh and adw is built in so I didn't need that and I quite liked the ubuntu esque theme so I was able to get rid of both of those :) [10:20] i made this painting with reference to an imaege i took in ny jfk airport [10:22] thats very impressive [10:22] thank you [10:22] brlabs, how long did it take? [10:23] 6 months [10:23] and its still got to be varnished [10:23] * diplo doesn't have that sort of patience :( [10:23] Why did you leave yourself in the painting? [10:23] its been quite a challenge, im glad its doneyou might say [10:27] bigcalm I like how it adds perspective [10:27] http://i.imgur.com/HylJQ.jpg [10:27] Heres another recent painting , it needs to be varnished too [10:28] which will bring out the darks much more vividly [10:28] its acrylic on stretched canvas [10:29] itx 3.5' x 5.5' [10:32] the ocean spray bottle seems out of place [10:35] :) [10:52] bigcalm: how you getting on with geany? [10:53] bigcalm: did you have to enable many of the plugins to make the highlighting and such work? [10:53] davmor2: it didn't fit my neads for my day to day work. I'm back with NetBeans [10:53] davmor2: I installed a lot of helpful plugins, but there are unchangeable things that stopped me from using it fully [10:54] Seems the same thing for me as bigcalm [10:54] It's a pumped up text editor, but not a proper IDE [11:04] * dwatkins returns from an unplanned fire drill [11:06] Haven't looked at the google analytics for myrant.net for some time. Pleased to see that some of my work has been used as a source in a stackoverflow.com answer: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10475884/how-does-wordpress-com-resize-images-dynamically [11:09] * bigcalm ponders commenting on the answer that used my source [11:09] * BigRedS sees no code [11:10] oh, the rewrite rules? [11:10] Yes [11:10] * BigRedS spots the 'source' link [11:15] It might very well be time for a toasted sandwich or two [11:15] nandos lunch :D [11:16] Nandos would mean a 36 min drive [11:23] bigcalm: god where is your nearest nandos wolvo? [11:24] arh im lucky, i get it delivered to the office :p [11:25] nandos :S [11:29] !info insserv [11:29] insserv (source: insserv): Tool to organize boot sequence using LSB init.d script dependencies. In component main, is required. Version 1.14.0-2.1ubuntu2 (precise), package size 48 kB, installed size 219 kB [11:40] !seen linuxsapien [11:40] I have no seen command [11:58] I have a gotomeeting-based meeting on Wednesday, anyone know if that means I need to fix my Windows install? [11:58] I've found WINE howtos, but I don't want to go down that route if it's likely to still be rubbish [11:59] BigRedS: you mean in terms of using the application from linux? [12:00] BigRedS: I've never gotten gotomeeting to work well under wine. THere is an android client that's not bad if you aren't going to be the presenter. [12:01] I don't know if it has a flash-only version, but you might be able to join from the browser if it does, like Adobe Connect does. [12:02] dwatkins: yeah, I've a debian and a ubuntu machine that I can use [12:02] ormiret: ooh, that might work [12:02] ta [12:02] hilariously this is a meeting about linux hosting. [12:02] Nope, if you connect from a browser it just downloads the java app (which is tied horribly into windows media stuff). [12:03] ah, shame, ormiret [12:03] sign up for the 30-day trial of Adobe Connect and get thenm to use that instead ;) [12:07] not sure how webex works in linux? [12:08] I tried it a few years ago, arsen - not too well, sadly [12:08] Haha, I know at least one of the other people involved doesn't have a Windows machine [12:08] I think I managed to get it to work after fiddling with the java version on OpenSuSE [12:08] wonder what he's got planned [12:09] get someone in the gotomeeting session to share their screen with connect ;) [12:15] Oh. I'm being loaned a Windows laptop for the occasion [12:16] That's one solution, I guess ;) [12:17] haha, yeah. I think actually being in this meeting is viewed as more important than being principled about free desktops [12:18] All over their website it wants me to buy it; is there a free viewer or something? [12:18] this is why I shouldn't be left in a customer-facing sort of position :) [12:18] ther'es a free trial, BigRedS [12:18] Ah yeah, I'll just do that [12:19] I assume you have to join a meeting for it to offer to install the windows client software, that's how it works with other such things. [12:19] Out of interest, is there a free-er more compatible alternative? [12:20] I'd suggest Adobe Connect, it works with anything flash runs on in general (although some features require the 'add-in') [12:23] Ah, fair enough [12:23] Figured I'd at least make a comment about it :) [12:24] sadly I don't know of a properly free alternative [12:25] (unless you count google's hangouts, but I don't think you can do desktop sharing with that) [12:26] you can [12:26] oh neat [12:26] as well as with skype [12:27] yeah, I was thinking Skype isn't any more 'free' than the commercial solutions mentioned above, I doubt there's a properly free meeting/desktop-sharing application [12:27] no cost though [12:28] its not like i want to edit the source so don't really care about the free software aspect [12:30] yeah, I guess the difference is that with Skype and Google hangouts, you can use them (for small meetings, at least, I gather) for free, whereas the commercial solutions require an on-premise installation or chargable account on a cluster provided by the vendor. [12:32] ah yeah, google hangout would really fit what I'd want to be suggesting [12:32] forgot those existed! [12:33] but, yeah, by 'free' I probably actually meant 'can get at from pretty much any desktop' [12:34] yeah, that was the trouble with gotomeeting and webex that I was surprised at [12:34] I guess 90% of desktops is enough for some companies ;) [12:34] Someone help me with permissions, I really want to fix this but I'm drugged up to the eye balls [12:34] Its general but is on cent :) [12:34] trying to use mkdir within php [12:34] davmor2: thanks for thinking me as such, but I am not your god. Closest Nando's is in Shrewsbury [12:34] Apache running as apache user [12:34] i use hangouts + skype for 90% of my meetings, the rest being on a horrible phone system because i can't understand voip or on mumble [12:34] folder owned by user in /var/www/html [12:35] it always surprises me how bad VoiP is at times [12:35] * bigcalm returns from lunch [12:37] diplo: for a dir you need 'r' to enter, 'x' to list and 'w' to create things in it [12:39] yeah understand that, hmm wonder if i add apache user to users group [12:40] rah fixed [12:40] been looking at it for ages [12:40] ask the question, fix it straight away [12:40] God this code sucks soooooooooooooooooooooooo badly!!!! [12:40] :( [12:42] I would consider a solution that gives away less permissions, but if that works, fair enough :-/ [12:43] I will come back and revisit this, my colleage was supposed to have fixed this early part of the week, customer moving from a PC to a VM for his system and basically nothing works [12:43] Needs to be done in the next 4 hours :/ [12:43] 3... even [12:43] diplo: in general, I'd stick the website in a vhost owned by a particular user and use suphp or mod-itk to make it run as that user [12:43] makes permissions easier, and often it means even the web dev can work out what to do [12:44] yeah, what I do on my home setup, althought not used mod-itk [12:44] We've stuck it on a few servers rather than the old horrendous bodge of fastcgi, suexec and bash wrapper scripts [12:45] way easier to admin and configure, no downside that we've yet come across [12:45] except the theoretical security ones [12:45] but we find that web developers are more dangerous than attackers anyway :) [12:46] heh aint that the truth [12:46] I think if anyone saw this code they would cry [12:46] just found a default error message of his [12:46] echo "didn't get owt..... may we should have done, someone ought to check this!" [12:46] This is on a customers site!! [12:48] hahaha [12:48] to be fair, though, many of my scripts simply die("Idiot."); on error... [12:48] Customer facing ? [12:49] haha, no [12:49] No, the only scripts I write are for me or my colleagues to use [12:49] Still, as useless output goes... [12:50] :) [12:56] I'm trying to use my Netgear N150 USB WiFi stick in XUbuntu 12.04. It uses the Atheros AR9271 chipset. How can I install the drivers for it? [13:08] Nvm, solved === dominic_ is now known as dwatkins [13:27] Would anybody recommend a tplink over devolo powerline networking equipment? Just looking at both, both the same speeed, just wondered if anybody can say whether one is better/more reliable than the other [13:28] DJones: the 200Mbit stuff is compatible with each other [13:28] AlanBell: bigcalm is evil, he wants me to strangle you [13:28] Haha [13:28] Not quite what I meant :) [13:28] AlanBell: Looking to buy a pack of two anyway, question is more whether devolo is better than tplink or vice versa [13:28] I have a 4port hub from one place and a couple of single port things that all work together [13:29] Language not intended for this channel though :) [13:30] DJones: I have the TPlink one for the ps3 it's fine you wouldn't know it wasn't a cable from one end to the other [13:30] * AlanBell hardly ever gets strangled [13:31] davmor2: I'm planning on using it for sky anytime+, I guess both manufacturers are pretty similar, similar specs & regulations, so not much difference in the end [13:32] Grrr to CSS selectors [13:33] czajkowski: pulverise bigcalm on behave of AlanBell would you ta [13:33] czajkowski: PROD hello :) [13:33] I need to apply a style to an element that has a child element that has a specific class [13:34] Can I do it without javascript? [13:34] * arsen head explodes [13:34] and without chickens [13:35] that's not a bad idea actually, DJones - we've been putting off the sky anytime+ not wanting to wire the house up for it. [13:36] fwiw, the powerline network stuff i have gets about 600kb/s, not enough to stream HD [13:36] gord: I blame your wiring though dude ;) [13:37] it probably is, but its a fairly new house, i just think that the whole thing is hit and miss [13:48] guys, how to make bash auto run after user ssh? [13:48] I tried create a .bash_profilelike this:if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then [13:48] . ~/.bashrc [13:48] fi [13:48] set the users default shell? [13:52] thanks for the tip, works now [13:53] How would you check if a given value is a multiple of 5? [13:54] I get a "Unable to add user" error window everytime I connect to my MSN account via Pidgin. I have had this issue for years but never bothered to resolve it. Is it the fault of MSN or Pidgin? A screenshot of the rror message can be found here - http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-060712-144714.php How can I stop the message? [13:55] if ($amount % 5 == 0) { ... [13:56] * bigcalm answers his own question after talking about it === schwuk is now known as schwuk_away [14:00] gord: From what I can see with sky anytime, its not true streaming anyway, it downloads a percentage of the video to teh hard drive before letting you watch it, so there's normally a decent buffered amount on the drive [14:02] bigcalm: are you making this calculation in silicon or carbon? ;) [14:02] dwatkins: eh? [14:02] Both :D [14:02]