[00:42] <len-dt> For those interested... we have an installable ISO once again.
[00:43] <ailo> len-dt: Nice
[00:45] <len-dt> ailo, I left email on the list asking about qmidiroute and system monitor.
[00:46] <len-dt> Scott wants me to find out what others thnk.
[00:48] <ailo> len-dt: Right. I think it's a good thing to put things up on the email list by default. I should probably do that also, more. But, I suspect, not many will have opinions, and the ones who do, aren't ready to help.
[00:48] <ailo> But, that doesn't mean some good ideas come out of it
[00:48] <ailo> Which is always good
[00:49] <len-dt> I figure to wait till next week and if there are no real big complaints just do it.
[00:49] <len-dt> This is a cycle to try things out.
[00:50] <ailo> Sounds like a plan
[00:50] <ailo> Yep, anything can always be returned back to previous state
[00:50] <len-dt> Any other apps we should be adding?
[00:51] <ailo> len-dt: The only thing that comes to mind, that bothers me, is automatic updates
[00:51] <ailo> If they are automatic
[00:51] <len-dt> ailo, is that adding or removing?
[00:51] <ailo> They always used to be, I think
[00:51] <ailo> There are two things actually
[00:51] <ailo> No desktop sounds, and no automatic updates
[00:52] <ailo> If it's a pro multimedia system, you don't want desktop sounds when you're booting into a PA
[00:52] <ailo> No sound at all, unless you make it
[00:52] <len-dt> There are no desktop sounds right now.
[00:52] <ailo> Ok, good
[00:53] <ailo> I don't really know that stuff too well. Not testing the desktop enough, since I prefer to use Gnome3
[00:53] <len-dt> I am not sure why... it looks like PA has them turned on.
[00:53] <ailo> Oh, sorry
[00:53] <ailo> I meant like a PA system
[00:54] <ailo> Or studio monitors, or whatever
[00:54] <len-dt> There must be a setting that is tured off.
[00:55] <len-dt> Or maybe there is just no sounds installed.
[00:56] <ailo> The desktop should initialize, and then stay the same for whatever duration you use it. No notices, no desktop sounds, no nothing. I think that is the best default really
[00:56] <len-dt> ailo, it is in "Appearance"
[00:56] <len-dt> enable event sounds is deselected by default as I did not turn it off.
[00:57] <len-dt> We do get notices by default
[00:57] <ailo> +1 from me
[00:57] <ailo> How about automatic updates? I think I had to turn that off?
[00:58] <len-dt> Ya, it is turned on by default... audio mode turns of cron and friends though.
[00:59] <ailo> I still think that the default "mode" should be good enough as it is.
[01:00] <ailo> If it isn't, it's because of HW problems, in which case, you need troubleshooting
[01:00] <len-dt> So what would you do about updates?
[01:00] <ailo> I still don't see any reason to have a mode for audio, since most people don't need one, if the desktop is rightly configured
[01:00] <ailo> I think updates should be turned off by default
[01:01] <ailo> That is selectable during alternate install. I guess with ubiquity, there's no option, so it needs to be set by us
[01:01] <ailo> The last thing you want in the middle of a live session is a window pop up
[01:02] <len-dt> Do we want people to update at all, if so we should make the way to do so obvious.
[01:02] <len-dt> I can understand that, right now it is just a tray icon.
[01:03] <ailo> I think we should recommend for people to update at their own will. My own personal view is that, if it isn't broken, don't fix it
[01:03] <len-dt> I was thinking that might make sense. I think holstein  would agree.
[01:03] <ailo> There are security updates, etc, but those don't really concern pro audio users, generally
[01:04] <ailo> More so, server admins
[01:04] <ailo> I have the same philosophy with Windows, and it's done me good for many years
[01:04] <len-dt> How about jockey
[01:05] <len-dt> aka check for new hardware drivers.
[01:05] <ailo> That's different, I think, since it's more about setting up the system, than maintaining it
[01:05] <ailo> How is it, if you don't install drivers? I think it won't reappear?
[01:05] <len-dt> When would it run? Right after an update? or when something is plugged in (USB etc)
[01:06] <ailo> I'd need to check what it does. I usually always install the one driver I need: nvidia
[01:07] <len-dt> My card is too old... I have to use the free one. Flakey as it is.
[01:07] <ailo> As a Vulcan would say, logic dictates, that it should only run when discovering new HW, and the user has yet not declined to install drivers
[01:08] <len-dt> Ubuntu tries to work every where all the time and catch things missed by logic...
[01:10] <ailo> It would make bad sense for Ubuntu to try to force proprietary drivers on people who decline them, but I haven't tried not installing them, so
[01:10] <len-dt> ailo, I think the next time someone asks how to turn off PA I will point them at the "session and startup menu" unselect PA and logout/in and be happy
[01:11] <ailo> len-dt: Did you try it yet? I guess that should take care of it :). I remember removing PA was not easy back in the day
[01:12] <len-dt> ailo, do you know where xchat stores it's default config?
[01:12] <ailo> len-dt: .xchat?
[01:12] <ailo> Or .xchat2, or something like that
[01:12] <ailo> I don't use it anymore. Switched to irssi
[01:12] <len-dt> It puts it there after you run it at least once.
[01:13] <len-dt> I need to know where it gets it's default from.
[01:13] <ailo> len-dt: ~/.xchat2
[01:13] <len-dt> So on first start up the user can be connected #ubuntustudio as well as ubuntu
[01:14] <ailo> I always keep my persisten folders on a separate partition, and create symbolic links to the home dir, replacing some of the standard folders
[01:15] <ailo> .xchat2 was one of those, over a few installs
[01:15] <ailo> Kept the settings
[01:15] <len-dt> That makes sense.
[01:15] <ailo> I don't like saving the whole home dir, just the folders I want
[01:15] <ailo> I use a script to set it up
[01:16] <ailo> for every folder in this dir, rm if exists, and add symbolic link
[01:16] <ailo> etc
[01:16] <len-dt> I was thinking about our ISO. One of the things we wanted to do was have ubuntustudio as one of the defaults when the user first uses it.
[01:17] <len-dt> I guess we could add a .xchat2 to /etc/skel/
[01:17] <ailo> len-dt: I like that idea
[01:18] <ailo> Would be good to add a couple of channels
[01:18] <ailo> At least #ubuntustudio
[01:18] <len-dt> I don't want all queries to come there... lots of stuff is not studio specific
[01:20] <ailo> len-dt: True. There should be both #ubuntu and #xubuntu
[01:20] <len-dt> If we added it to skel we could have the server box not come up and the channel box not come up too.
[01:21] <len-dt> Just auto connect.
[01:21] <ailo> len-dt: There has been talk of an intro for a while. Would be enough with a link on the desktop to a wiki page
[01:21] <ailo> Something that helps the user find all the channels, all the web pages
[01:23] <len-dt> The menu has help buttons (for xfce) we could copy those. and put the desktop file on the desktop.
[01:23] <len-dt> All they do is point to a web page.
[01:23] <len-dt> In our case the web page isnt there.
[01:24] <ailo> We just need to create it. 
[01:24] <len-dt> That would be a bug...
[01:24] <len-dt> Can we take part of the web docs we have and add it to the ISO?
[01:25] <len-dt> Even point it at the wiki for now.
[01:32] <len-dt> There should be something that tells firefox what to do with a irc url
[01:33] <len-dt> right now it goes to some web interface... but freenode won't accept it so the user has to login wtice
[01:35] <len-dt> s/wtice/twice/
[01:35] <kubotu> len-dt meant: "right now it goes to some web interface... but freenode won't accept it so the user has to login twice"
[01:40] <ailo> len-dt: Good idea
[01:40] <ailo> Let's add it to the blueprints. I can knock it out
[03:58] <holstein> http://ubuntustudio.org/ looks awesome!
[03:59] <holstein> thanks to all who helped make that happen!!
[05:12] <len-dt> ailo, do remember what the bug number was for qjackctl crashing jack on stop?
[05:12] <len-dt> Some one has flagged it as a new bug... needs to be marked as dup
[05:13] <ailo> len-dt: Bug #956438 
[05:13] <ailo> The title could be changed
[05:14] <ailo> I guess, since it's a jackdbus bug
[05:14] <len-dt> The new one is Bug 1022003
[05:14] <ailo> Sounds like the same deal then
[05:15] <len-dt> is it the same version of jack 1.9.8?
[05:16] <ailo> I don't think jack has been updated
[05:16] <len-dt> Ya, it looks like the same stack trace too.
[05:22] <len-dt> I have duped it. It is already marked as affecting jackd2
[05:41] <len-dt> Ive added it the bugs I am watching so I will be able to find it easier another time.
[05:43] <ailo> In cases like this it would be good to have it subscribed to a team and/or mail list
[05:48] <len-dt> holstein, I don't expect an answer right now... but when you have time ;-) I need a list of IRC channels you direct people to most often.
[05:50] <len-dt> holstein, I want to add some of them to xchat.
[05:54] <len-dt> ailo, It looks like we are already subscribed.
[05:55] <len-dt> Notified of all changes
[05:55] <len-dt>     Artem
[05:55] <len-dt>     Kaj Ailomaa
[05:55] <len-dt>     Ubuntu Studio Dev...Remove
[05:55] <len-dt> s/remove//
[05:55] <kubotu> len-dt: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[13:09] <holstein> len-dt: #opensourcemusicans aint going anywhere anytime soon... thats where i send folks
[13:10] <holstein> also, maybe #xubuntu ?
[13:10] <holstein> other than that, sometimes the channels for the specific apps.. if its video related, and i just have no idea where to send them
[15:04] <len-dt> holstein, thanks. I think those are the good ones (along with #ubuntu) to add as default to xchat.
[15:34] <len-dt> ailo, it looks like xfce4-about can not be reconfigured to have other information in it.ls
[15:35] <len-dt> We would have to make a web page in a normal browser.
[16:17] <len-dt> ailo, there is another email on the list. I am thinking to change the URL from our help button to point at our website for now. It would be better than a file not found error.
[16:17] <len-dt> In the long run there should be some help included on disk from the ISO install for those who don't use a net connect.
[16:42] <ailo> len-dt: I think we should try to do a SRU for that
[16:42] <ailo> Add a html page to the ISO
[16:42] <ailo> Maybe also add a link to the desktop
[17:04] <len-dt> ailo, we have other problems too, xfbrowser4 no longer exists.
[17:05] <len-dt> we would need to split -default-settings into a precise branch
[17:10] <len-dt> xfbowser4 was a part of the xfce-utils and is gone. The sugested workaround (https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8642) is to use exo-open --launch WebBrowser 
[17:10] <len-dt> If this works for precise as well we can still use one branch
[17:20] <len-dt> ailo, Exec=exo-open http://ubuntustudio.org/ seems to work in precise. I will try it in Quantal too.
[17:22] <len-dt> might be better to use Exec=exo-open --launch WebBrowser http://ubuntustudio.org/
[17:22] <len-dt> That way when we switch to a file it will still work.
[17:55] <len-dt> Ok, I have pushed this change.
[17:57] <len-dt> ailo,  I am not sure which package would/should hold the doc/help files.
[18:12] <ailo> len-dt: Perhaps ubuntustudio-settings? Something very basic anyway
[18:13] <ailo> Hmm, or maybe ubuntustudio-desktop, since you won't be needing it otherwise?
[19:36] <len-dt> ailo, should we have a -doc package?
[19:49] <ailo> len-dt: I don't know. There's always the web site, and for this particular file, since it will only be obviously reachable from a Ubuntu Studio desktop, I think it should be included with ubuntustudio-desktop
[19:50] <ailo> I'm using a video editor to make a video pretty much for the first time. Created and uploaded a video to youtube
[19:50] <ailo> With openshot
[19:50] <ailo> Really handy for that type of thin
[19:51] <ailo> I have some ideas for further docs on this
[19:51] <ailo> workflows for bands, etc
[19:54] <len-dt> ailo, ok, I guess, the only thing to consider is that -desktop is, so far as I know, just a meta. No files.
[20:00] <len-dt> ailo, looking at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev, I don't see a ubuntustudio-desktop.
[20:01] <len-dt> maybe you are thinking of the file in seeds
[20:01] <len-dt> ailo, what is the url for your video?
[20:03] <ailo> len-dt: Ah, ok. Didn't realize that.
[20:03] <ailo> Well, ubuntustudio-settings would be my second choice
[20:03] <len-dt> ailo, that works
[20:03] <ailo> len-dt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWVmRekeCUQ&feature=plcp
[20:04] <ailo> Just trying it out. Hopefully we'll be having lots to post in the coming months with the band. I'm setting up all the social channels for it right now
[20:04] <ailo> I did the artwork on GIMP just before too
[20:05] <ailo> Not very original, but I was pretty happy with how it came out
[20:05] <ailo> Considering I didn't put that much time into it
[20:06] <len-dt> ailo, not much video? I have sound and the one still.
[20:07] <ailo> Yeah, I didn't have any videos to use, but I just wanted to learn how to put up music on youtube
[20:07] <ailo> We'll be recording videos too later on, but that will have to come last more or less
[20:07] <len-dt> Well that worked then
[20:09] <ailo> That's really why I've been pretty busy lately. I need to finish up coding the tools we use this week. Only after 2-3 weeks ahead will I be able to be more agressive with US development
[20:09] <len-dt> I'll try and pick up any little fixs I can find.
[20:11] <len-dt> ailo, I should, I guess, workout a publishing menu item/submenu any odeas what apps to put in it?
[20:11] <len-dt> s/odeas/ideas
[20:12] <ailo> len-dt: We should discuss adding one or both of scribus and calibre to the seeds
[20:12] <ailo> libroffice writer should go there too
[20:12] <len-dt> I can add both to the menu, only what is installed will show up.
[20:12] <ailo> I'd need to do some research on what else
[20:13] <ailo> len-dt: Ok, sounds good
[20:13] <len-dt> it is a pretty new idea
[20:13] <len-dt> lyx will go in there
[20:14] <len-dt> ailo, I think Scott will need to give some input in this as it is mostly his vision. I am just thinking to do a little prep work...
[20:15] <ailo> len-dt: Agreed
[20:48] <len-dt> I want to wait till the current -settings is SRUed before adding that though.
[20:49] <len-dt> ailo, I would like to add to each of our "workflow" menus a software center item that shows likely extra packages a user might want to add... call them supported rather than shipped.
[21:17] <ailo> len-dt: Yes. I have thought about that too
[21:17] <ailo> For people who only use that to install stuff, they won't find Ubuntu Studio otherwise
[21:18] <ailo> We still have a problem with realtime privilege, but perhaps we can SRU that too, since the current one is not doing anything useful
[21:25] <ailo> Sorry, I was talking about using -controls for that
[21:25] <ailo> Or, I meant to say we should use -controls for that
[21:29] <len-dt> OK
[21:30] <len-dt> ailo, software center does not show meta packages at all... it may be possible to put something on the command line to fix that though.
[21:31] <len-dt> But if I open SOftware Center the only ubuntustudio package that shows up is -controls
[21:32] <len-dt> It is _not_ like synaptic