[00:42] For those interested... we have an installable ISO once again. [00:43] len-dt: Nice [00:45] ailo, I left email on the list asking about qmidiroute and system monitor. [00:46] Scott wants me to find out what others thnk. [00:48] len-dt: Right. I think it's a good thing to put things up on the email list by default. I should probably do that also, more. But, I suspect, not many will have opinions, and the ones who do, aren't ready to help. [00:48] But, that doesn't mean some good ideas come out of it [00:48] Which is always good [00:49] I figure to wait till next week and if there are no real big complaints just do it. [00:49] This is a cycle to try things out. [00:50] Sounds like a plan [00:50] Yep, anything can always be returned back to previous state [00:50] Any other apps we should be adding? [00:51] len-dt: The only thing that comes to mind, that bothers me, is automatic updates [00:51] If they are automatic [00:51] ailo, is that adding or removing? [00:51] They always used to be, I think [00:51] There are two things actually [00:51] No desktop sounds, and no automatic updates [00:52] If it's a pro multimedia system, you don't want desktop sounds when you're booting into a PA [00:52] No sound at all, unless you make it [00:52] There are no desktop sounds right now. [00:52] Ok, good [00:53] I don't really know that stuff too well. Not testing the desktop enough, since I prefer to use Gnome3 [00:53] I am not sure why... it looks like PA has them turned on. [00:53] Oh, sorry [00:53] I meant like a PA system [00:54] Or studio monitors, or whatever [00:54] There must be a setting that is tured off. [00:55] Or maybe there is just no sounds installed. [00:56] The desktop should initialize, and then stay the same for whatever duration you use it. No notices, no desktop sounds, no nothing. I think that is the best default really [00:56] ailo, it is in "Appearance" [00:56] enable event sounds is deselected by default as I did not turn it off. [00:57] We do get notices by default [00:57] +1 from me [00:57] How about automatic updates? I think I had to turn that off? [00:58] Ya, it is turned on by default... audio mode turns of cron and friends though. [00:59] I still think that the default "mode" should be good enough as it is. [01:00] If it isn't, it's because of HW problems, in which case, you need troubleshooting [01:00] So what would you do about updates? [01:00] I still don't see any reason to have a mode for audio, since most people don't need one, if the desktop is rightly configured [01:00] I think updates should be turned off by default [01:01] That is selectable during alternate install. I guess with ubiquity, there's no option, so it needs to be set by us [01:01] The last thing you want in the middle of a live session is a window pop up [01:02] Do we want people to update at all, if so we should make the way to do so obvious. [01:02] I can understand that, right now it is just a tray icon. [01:03] I think we should recommend for people to update at their own will. My own personal view is that, if it isn't broken, don't fix it [01:03] I was thinking that might make sense. I think holstein would agree. [01:03] There are security updates, etc, but those don't really concern pro audio users, generally [01:04] More so, server admins [01:04] I have the same philosophy with Windows, and it's done me good for many years [01:04] How about jockey [01:05] aka check for new hardware drivers. [01:05] That's different, I think, since it's more about setting up the system, than maintaining it [01:05] How is it, if you don't install drivers? I think it won't reappear? [01:05] When would it run? Right after an update? or when something is plugged in (USB etc) [01:06] I'd need to check what it does. I usually always install the one driver I need: nvidia [01:07] My card is too old... I have to use the free one. Flakey as it is. [01:07] As a Vulcan would say, logic dictates, that it should only run when discovering new HW, and the user has yet not declined to install drivers [01:08] Ubuntu tries to work every where all the time and catch things missed by logic... [01:10] It would make bad sense for Ubuntu to try to force proprietary drivers on people who decline them, but I haven't tried not installing them, so [01:10] ailo, I think the next time someone asks how to turn off PA I will point them at the "session and startup menu" unselect PA and logout/in and be happy [01:11] len-dt: Did you try it yet? I guess that should take care of it :). I remember removing PA was not easy back in the day [01:12] ailo, do you know where xchat stores it's default config? [01:12] len-dt: .xchat? [01:12] Or .xchat2, or something like that [01:12] I don't use it anymore. Switched to irssi [01:12] It puts it there after you run it at least once. [01:13] I need to know where it gets it's default from. [01:13] len-dt: ~/.xchat2 [01:13] So on first start up the user can be connected #ubuntustudio as well as ubuntu [01:14] I always keep my persisten folders on a separate partition, and create symbolic links to the home dir, replacing some of the standard folders [01:15] .xchat2 was one of those, over a few installs [01:15] Kept the settings [01:15] That makes sense. [01:15] I don't like saving the whole home dir, just the folders I want [01:15] I use a script to set it up [01:16] for every folder in this dir, rm if exists, and add symbolic link [01:16] etc [01:16] I was thinking about our ISO. One of the things we wanted to do was have ubuntustudio as one of the defaults when the user first uses it. [01:17] I guess we could add a .xchat2 to /etc/skel/ [01:17] len-dt: I like that idea [01:18] Would be good to add a couple of channels [01:18] At least #ubuntustudio [01:18] I don't want all queries to come there... lots of stuff is not studio specific [01:20] len-dt: True. There should be both #ubuntu and #xubuntu [01:20] If we added it to skel we could have the server box not come up and the channel box not come up too. [01:21] Just auto connect. [01:21] len-dt: There has been talk of an intro for a while. Would be enough with a link on the desktop to a wiki page [01:21] Something that helps the user find all the channels, all the web pages [01:23] The menu has help buttons (for xfce) we could copy those. and put the desktop file on the desktop. [01:23] All they do is point to a web page. [01:23] In our case the web page isnt there. [01:24] We just need to create it. [01:24] That would be a bug... [01:24] Can we take part of the web docs we have and add it to the ISO? [01:25] Even point it at the wiki for now. [01:32] There should be something that tells firefox what to do with a irc url [01:33] right now it goes to some web interface... but freenode won't accept it so the user has to login wtice [01:35] s/wtice/twice/ [01:35] len-dt meant: "right now it goes to some web interface... but freenode won't accept it so the user has to login twice" [01:40] len-dt: Good idea [01:40] Let's add it to the blueprints. I can knock it out [03:58] http://ubuntustudio.org/ looks awesome! [03:59] thanks to all who helped make that happen!! [05:12] ailo, do remember what the bug number was for qjackctl crashing jack on stop? [05:12] Some one has flagged it as a new bug... needs to be marked as dup [05:13] len-dt: Bug #956438 [05:13] Launchpad bug 956438 in jackd2 (Ubuntu) "qjackctl unable to stop jackd2" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956438 [05:13] The title could be changed [05:14] I guess, since it's a jackdbus bug [05:14] The new one is Bug 1022003 [05:14] Launchpad bug 1022003 in jack-audio-connection-kit (Ubuntu) "Jack Crashes When Clicking Stop Button in QjackCtl" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022003 [05:14] Sounds like the same deal then [05:15] is it the same version of jack 1.9.8? [05:16] I don't think jack has been updated [05:16] Ya, it looks like the same stack trace too. [05:22] I have duped it. It is already marked as affecting jackd2 [05:41] Ive added it the bugs I am watching so I will be able to find it easier another time. [05:43] In cases like this it would be good to have it subscribed to a team and/or mail list [05:48] holstein, I don't expect an answer right now... but when you have time ;-) I need a list of IRC channels you direct people to most often. [05:50] holstein, I want to add some of them to xchat. [05:54] ailo, It looks like we are already subscribed. [05:55] Notified of all changes [05:55] Artem [05:55] Kaj Ailomaa [05:55] Ubuntu Studio Dev...Remove [05:55] s/remove// [05:55] len-dt: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed" [13:09] len-dt: #opensourcemusicans aint going anywhere anytime soon... thats where i send folks [13:10] also, maybe #xubuntu ? [13:10] other than that, sometimes the channels for the specific apps.. if its video related, and i just have no idea where to send them === shnatsel is now known as SergeLion === SergeLion is now known as SergePython [15:04] holstein, thanks. I think those are the good ones (along with #ubuntu) to add as default to xchat. [15:34] ailo, it looks like xfce4-about can not be reconfigured to have other information in it.ls [15:35] We would have to make a web page in a normal browser. [16:17] ailo, there is another email on the list. I am thinking to change the URL from our help button to point at our website for now. It would be better than a file not found error. [16:17] In the long run there should be some help included on disk from the ISO install for those who don't use a net connect. [16:42] len-dt: I think we should try to do a SRU for that [16:42] Add a html page to the ISO [16:42] Maybe also add a link to the desktop [17:04] ailo, we have other problems too, xfbrowser4 no longer exists. [17:05] we would need to split -default-settings into a precise branch [17:10] xfbowser4 was a part of the xfce-utils and is gone. The sugested workaround (https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8642) is to use exo-open --launch WebBrowser [17:10] bugzilla.xfce.org bug 8642 in General "Use 'exo-open' instead of 'xfbrowser4' (and fix argument handling) for compability with Xfce 4.9+" [Major,New] [17:10] If this works for precise as well we can still use one branch [17:20] ailo, Exec=exo-open http://ubuntustudio.org/ seems to work in precise. I will try it in Quantal too. [17:22] might be better to use Exec=exo-open --launch WebBrowser http://ubuntustudio.org/ [17:22] That way when we switch to a file it will still work. [17:55] Ok, I have pushed this change. [17:57] ailo, I am not sure which package would/should hold the doc/help files. [18:12] len-dt: Perhaps ubuntustudio-settings? Something very basic anyway [18:13] Hmm, or maybe ubuntustudio-desktop, since you won't be needing it otherwise? [19:36] ailo, should we have a -doc package? [19:49] len-dt: I don't know. There's always the web site, and for this particular file, since it will only be obviously reachable from a Ubuntu Studio desktop, I think it should be included with ubuntustudio-desktop [19:50] I'm using a video editor to make a video pretty much for the first time. Created and uploaded a video to youtube [19:50] With openshot [19:50] Really handy for that type of thin [19:51] I have some ideas for further docs on this [19:51] workflows for bands, etc [19:54] ailo, ok, I guess, the only thing to consider is that -desktop is, so far as I know, just a meta. No files. [20:00] ailo, looking at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev, I don't see a ubuntustudio-desktop. [20:01] maybe you are thinking of the file in seeds [20:01] ailo, what is the url for your video? [20:03] len-dt: Ah, ok. Didn't realize that. [20:03] Well, ubuntustudio-settings would be my second choice [20:03] ailo, that works [20:03] len-dt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWVmRekeCUQ&feature=plcp [20:04] Just trying it out. Hopefully we'll be having lots to post in the coming months with the band. I'm setting up all the social channels for it right now [20:04] I did the artwork on GIMP just before too [20:05] Not very original, but I was pretty happy with how it came out [20:05] Considering I didn't put that much time into it [20:06] ailo, not much video? I have sound and the one still. [20:07] Yeah, I didn't have any videos to use, but I just wanted to learn how to put up music on youtube [20:07] We'll be recording videos too later on, but that will have to come last more or less [20:07] Well that worked then [20:09] That's really why I've been pretty busy lately. I need to finish up coding the tools we use this week. Only after 2-3 weeks ahead will I be able to be more agressive with US development [20:09] I'll try and pick up any little fixs I can find. [20:11] ailo, I should, I guess, workout a publishing menu item/submenu any odeas what apps to put in it? [20:11] s/odeas/ideas [20:12] len-dt: We should discuss adding one or both of scribus and calibre to the seeds [20:12] libroffice writer should go there too [20:12] I can add both to the menu, only what is installed will show up. [20:12] I'd need to do some research on what else [20:13] len-dt: Ok, sounds good [20:13] it is a pretty new idea [20:13] lyx will go in there [20:14] ailo, I think Scott will need to give some input in this as it is mostly his vision. I am just thinking to do a little prep work... [20:15] len-dt: Agreed [20:48] I want to wait till the current -settings is SRUed before adding that though. [20:49] ailo, I would like to add to each of our "workflow" menus a software center item that shows likely extra packages a user might want to add... call them supported rather than shipped. [21:17] len-dt: Yes. I have thought about that too [21:17] For people who only use that to install stuff, they won't find Ubuntu Studio otherwise [21:18] We still have a problem with realtime privilege, but perhaps we can SRU that too, since the current one is not doing anything useful [21:25] Sorry, I was talking about using -controls for that [21:25] Or, I meant to say we should use -controls for that [21:29] OK [21:30] ailo, software center does not show meta packages at all... it may be possible to put something on the command line to fix that though. [21:31] But if I open SOftware Center the only ubuntustudio package that shows up is -controls [21:32] It is _not_ like synaptic